undereating?

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by skcin

OK, I've thoroughly read all the info Amber provided. Definitely interesting, and something to think about when making dietary choices. Is this article from a Vegan website? Just wondering, I didn't see the source. I am not going to ignore the things I've just read, and I will be sure to not eat too much dairy after reading all of these theories. Considering my usual intake is a splash of 1% milk 4-5 days a week & some cheese/yogurt every day, I rarely eat even the recommended 2-3 servings anyway, so I'm not really that worried.

I think it's great that people are doing research to find out exactly what's good for us & what's not, and question older outdated info. I personally take it with a grain of salt. So may studies say the opposite of other studies - hard to decide for sure which study is the best or most accurate. Apparently, the only thing we can honestly eat without fear are completely organic raw fresh veggies. Too much of anything else can be unhealthy, and this obviously includes dairy. Point taken.

I'd like to comment on a few things. Not trying to dispute any of the info presented, just some thoughts:



Humans are the only species to do a bunch of things. Eating cooked food comes to mind, but I'm not going to stop doing that.

And yes, the majority of the world's pop. is at least mildly lactose intolerant. That's not because it's bad necessarily, it's because it may not be available to them, therefore their bodies can't process it properly. The people that I know who are medically diagnosed as lactose intolerant simply don't eat dairy, or they eat only what they can tolerate. Of course if something makes you sick to your stomach, then don't eat it - seems like common sense to me. Only about 15% of the Caucasian pop. is lactose intolerant, btw.



Aren't diets in Finland higher in fat in general? High fat dairy, cheeses, meats, etc. How about the availability of fresh veggies? And perhaps people are less physically active than in other parts of the world? I'm not in any way saying that the intake of high fat dairy has nothing to do with the increased rates, I just think there may be other factors involved as well. And I noticed that although this article explains that low fat/skim products aren't that low in fat, they stop short of saying they've been shown to cause heart disease, etc.



I would like to know who the hell is recommending cow's milk for infants?!?! Certainly not pediatricians, at least not for the past 15-20 years. They can't tolerate it, and breast milk is much better. Formula fortified with iron is the second choice. In my professional & personal experience I've never heard anyone tell a mother to give her baby cow's milk.

The allergy link in kids is concerning, although this article isn't very clear to me. I know from my research that there are several possible reasons for the increased incidence of allergies (esp. to foods) but nobody has determined any one cause. Obviously, milk is a possible contributing factor & I hope this is investigated further.



I do agree that too much focus has been put on "milk builds strong bones" over the years. Evidence shows that it is beneficial in children as far as preventing osteoporosis later in life, but when you're older it doesn't really do squat. Many people aren't aware of this & think that if they suddenly start chugging milk when they're 40, they'll be fine. Uh-uh.

But just because the body can only absorb so much doesn't mean they should cut out all dairy, IMO. And did the study look at the fact that we drink much more soda & eat much more fast food here in North America? Studies also show that soda can severely deplete calcium stores as well as decrease bone density and more fast food seems to = obesity which seems to = decreased activity/exercise, all of which contribute to the development of osteoporosis.

Again, I'm not disputing or trying to minimize the information, just pointing out that there may be more to it than just drinking milk alone. In other words, woman shouldn't completely cut dairy out of their diet because they heard it might not be great for their bones, but continue to lead a sedentary lifestyle & chug pop. They need to look at their life & their diet as a whole - there's no quick fix.



I understand some people may think that frozen yogurt is good for them just because it says "yogurt." I am not one of them. Read labels, people. I'm surprised to see that this article isn't really that hard on yogurt, since someone once told me I may as well eat a bunch of sugar instead. It is important to eat ygurt that contains active cultures (esp. acidophyllus.) Also - ladies - if you're put on antibiotics for any infection, eating a cup of yogurt every day while you're taking them usually prevents yeast infections from developing.



Again with the infants. Doctors do not recommend cow's milk for infants. Neither does the cow/dairy industry or the USDA or any other agency in the U.S.



I'm trying to find the portion of the Nurse's Health Study that shows this, but I'm having a hard time finding it. As far as the study in Sweden, I'm curious to know if other factors were looked at (other dietary factors, esp. fat, smoking, hormone levels, never having kids vs. having several, etc.) Very interesting, though, I hadn't heard that before. The incidence of ovarian Ca is pretty low in relation to other cancers, but obviously if you have other risk factors you may want to limit dairy.



I'd like to try & find more info on the specifics of the study. I notice it says "were associated with" not "causes." By "animal product" does that mean only dairy, or meat as well? If it includes meat, then theoretically the diet would be higher in fat than non-meat eaters, and they may be overweight because of that, which has long been thought to increase the risk for development of IDDM (Insulin Dependent Diabetes, used to be called Juvenile Diabetes.) If the correlation between dairy and IDDM is strong enough, this is HUGE. It could help in the diagnosis or even prevention of diabetes.

*Theresa - you force fed Dean 20 servings of milk every day, didn't you?!?!*



I'd like to know this 1 GYN's sources. Is this just her opinion? I'll be posting a study shortly that seems to dispute some of her claims.



Please see the article I'll post shortly on the "organic" and "free range" controversy.

I for one appreciate your level-headed treatment of this whole discussion. Ive only actually read the first 5 or 6 pages (up to your post I quoted) but it appears to me that articles posted by Amber are either OPINIONS or without citation. Of course, there are two sides to every issue and everyone is going to lean one way or another for various reasons. Apparently Amber has bought into the whole "Milk is BAD!" propaganda. Whatever. What is chuckle-worthy however is her position that only HER sources and HER research are valid. PUH-LEEZ. Obviously, as has been mentioned, whole milk is unnecessary beyond the age of 5 for several reasons, chiefly a need to control cholesterols and fats. Some milks contain the Bovine Growth Hormone but many do NOT.

I question studies that make conclusions such as "men who drink 5+ glasses of Vitamin D milk are more likely to get prostate Cancer than men who only drink 2 glasses" I'd have to see the actual methodology and whether this was a double blind test and what other dietary/lifestyle choice factors could also be impacting the results. Ive never heard anywhere other than Amber's article that Vitamin D inhibits calcium absorbtion. I know about the Vitamin C and IRON connection but Vitamin D and Calcium?

At any rate, just because people disagree with Amber, doesnt make them morons or deliberately uninformed. It only means they disagree with her. And, these studies contradict themselves every decade or so. One year coffee is a bad thing, the next year its the new miracle food/drink, and on and on. You're free to practice whatever dietary guidelines you want but no one has the right to think that their way is the only way, or that their information (out of all the information available) is infallible.
Thats just plain FOOLISH and ILLOGICAL.