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#46
08-24-2006, 02:14 PM
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Is it the BEST source of these? No. Is milk UNhealthy? No. Any evidence you can find that it isn't- there is an equal amount of evidence that it is. 
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#47
08-24-2006, 02:18 PM
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Milk has healthy vitamins and minerals. But the hormones, even that natural ones, aren't very good for people. There is also evidence that dairy products exacerbate and perhaps cause allergies and asthma. I wouldn't call anyone a moron for saying it's healthy though. I just happen to follow Dr. Weil's advice, or try to, and he says to avoid it for the reasons above.
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~Suzy
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#48
08-24-2006, 02:28 PM
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The hormone thing is a bit better with organic milk - and organic milk tastes much better. I'm not lactose intolerant, and milk remains a good source of calcium and vitamin D in my life..and I like it... I just read a study this morning from Yale on the benefits - so it's fresh in my mind. Again - I'm aware it's not the best - but it's also not the worst.
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#49
08-24-2006, 02:28 PM
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 yeah, i don't even remember why that pic was taken, but there it is ... i've only had silk, and i think i had the sweetened stuff. i actually like the vanilla kind, but that's cheating.  Quote:
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#50
08-24-2006, 02:29 PM
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^^^^
Most regular people do not have all the info on what milk really does. Since I've been studying this for so long, I do. I choose to believe the sources that say it's not really good for you, because the evidence is scientifically sound, and also comes from sources who have no interest in the beef industry. People say it has this or that nutrients - but that comes in a form that because of the nature of cows milk is difficult for humans to absorb. Calcium from milk is a common misconception - it has calcium, but we can't absorb it, because of the high protein content, which causes leaching of calcium from the bones. Cow's Milk Updated: March 16, 2005 Milk and other dairy products are included in many vegetarian diets. Dairy is a rich source of calcium, vitamin B12, vitamin D, and other nutrients. It has been a part of many cultures for centuries, especially in Northern Europe. For religious Hindus, milk is considered sacred. Yet the majority of the world's peoples do not come from cultures that have a history of dairy consumption. These people often have problems digesting it. And with the advent of modern mechanized dairy production, milk may not be as pure as it once was. What follows is an in depth overview of some of the potential problems associated with dairy, and a look at the alternatives. Sections below: Lactose Intolerance Milk fat Allergies Osteoporosis Yogurt Iron deficiency in infants Ovarian cancer Diabetes in children Women & dairy Stress, antibiotics, mastitis, and pus Non-dairy calcium sources Soy milk as a healthy alternative Is drinking milk natural? Human beings are the only species (other than house cats) to consume milk past childhood. We are also the only species to consume the milk of another species. Yet, at about the age of four, most people around the world begin to lose the ability to digest lactose, the carbohydrate found in milk. This results in a condition known as lactose intolerance that causes a range of unpleasant abdominal symptoms, including stomach cramps, flatulence and diarrhea. Lactose intolerance is a reality for 75% of the world's population. In Canada, while many adult Caucasians have the ability to digest lactose, a large number of First Nations People, Asians, Africans and people of Jewish ancestry are lactose deficient.1 Even though consuming dairy is unnatural and problematic for many people, Canada's Food Guide recommends 2–4 servings per day, and the US Food Guide Pyramid recommends 2-3 servings. One serving is defined as 1 cup of milk, 2 slices of cheese or 3/4 cup of yogurt. Milk fat Whole cow's milk is a high-fat fluid, designed by nature to turn a 60–70 lb (27–30 kg) calf into a 300–600 lb (135–275 kg) cow in one year. High-fat dairy products such as cheese, butter and cream contain saturated fat. Saturated fat is the most important dietary factor involved in raising blood cholesterol levels. The consumption of high-fat dairy products has also been found to cause atherosclerosis, heart disease and stroke. Finland which has a death rate from heart disease that is among the highest in the world, also has one of the highest rates of dairy product consumption.2 Low-fat milk and cheese products are still significantly high in total fat, saturated fat and cholesterol. For example, 2% milk has become much more popular than homogenized milk, yet it still derives one third of its total calories from fat. Skim milk mozzarella with approximately 15% milk-fat is considered a low-fat cheese, yet a 1-ounce slice contains 5 grams of fat, totaling 56% calories from fat! So don't be fooled by the "skim milk" label. The wide range of skimmed milk products available in grocery stores reflects health concerns over high-fat dairy products. But for many people, low-fat dairy products may still be an unacceptable alternative. Low-fat dairy products linked to heightened allergies The high protein content of low-fat dairy products is actually more allergenic than dairy products with a high-fat content.3 Dairy products are one of the leading causes of food allergies and food sensitivities causing allergic responses in people of all ages, especially infants and young children. It is estimated that 1–7% of infants are allergic to cow's milk protein. Infants who react to milk also have a greater likelihood of developing allergies to other foods.4 Allergies to dairy products can cause a wide range of symptoms including irritability, restlessness, hyperactivity, depression, abdominal pain, cramps or bloating, gas, diarrhea, bad breath, headaches, lack of energy, constipation, poor appetite, mal-absorption of nutrients, nasal stuffiness, runny nose sinusitis, asthma, shortness of breath, rashes, and eczema.5 Osteoporosis & the milk connection North America has one of the highest consumptions of dairy products, and also the highest incidence of osteoporosis – a disease of brittle bones formed through the loss of calcium. The dairy lobby has many campaigns and advertisements encouraging people to consume large quantities of dairy products to ward off this dreaded disease later in life. But that's not the whole story. Regardless of how much calcium you take in, the amount your body can actually absorb and retain matters more. The high animal protein intake typical of North American diets can make it difficult to retain calcium. Digesting animal protein creates an acidic environment in the body. To neutralize the acid, the body may rob calcium from the bones. Years of this pattern can contribute in osteoporosis later in life.6 A study published in 2001, found that "elderly women with a high dietary ratio of animal to vegetable protein intake have more rapid neck bone loss and a greater risk of hip fracture than do those with a low ratio. This suggests that an increase in vegetable protein intake and a decrease in animal protein intake may decrease bone loss..." Several studies have found that "in comparison with animal protein, soy protein decreases calcium excretion, a result of the lower sulfur amino acid content of soy protein."7 To prevent osteoporosis it is also important to get enough Vitamin D, avoid smoking and limit coffee and alcohol. Weight-bearing exercise such as running, dancing and walking is especially helpful. (see Key Nutrients for more information on vitamin D). Yogurt Yogurt is the healthiest dairy product because of its live bacterial enzyme cultures that foster a healthy colon, and even may lower the risk of colon cancer. The culturing process makes yogurt more digestible than milk. The live active cultures create lactase, the enzyme lactose-intolerant people lack. Some yogurts are pasteurized again after the fermentation process. This kills the beneficial bacteria cultures and decreases many of the health benefits. Check the label, and look for the brands with the simplest ingredients. It is best to avoid frozen yogurt – most brands have no live cultures, are high in fat (some as fatty as ice cream), and the low-fat versions are usually high in sugar. An average non-fat serving of frozen yogurt contains approximately seven teaspoons of sugar. Note: all yogurts have the high protein content and related problems mentioned above. Non-dairy soy yogurts containing live cultures are available. Iron deficiency in infants According to Frank Oski, the late Chairman of Pediatrics at Johns Hopkins Medical School, "Drinking large quantities of cow's milk has long been recognized to produce iron-deficiency anemia in infants... Cow's milk contains less than 1 mg of iron per quart. Very little of this iron is absorbed from the intestinal tract because other constituents of the milk bind with the iron... Many infants drink 1-2 quarts of milk per day. This tends to satisfy their hunger and they are left with very little appetite for the necessary iron-containing foods."8 Breast milk is the best source of iron for infants. Ovarian cancer Ovarian cancer is more common in Northern Europe than in Asian populations and the consumption of milk products may be the reason. Studies have found that there is a higher risk of ovarian cancer in women who consume lactose (sugar in milk). This was the conclusion of a study published in 2004, that tracked 80,326 participants in the Nurses' Health Study. A Swedish study of 61,084 women found that high intakes of lactose and dairy products, particularly milk, are associated with an increased risk of serious ovarian cancer but not other subtypes of ovarian cancer.9 Cow's milk & diabetes in children Several studies have linked cow's milk to diabetes in children. Something in milk (possibly bovine serum albumin) may cause an immune reaction in diabetic children leading to the destruction of the body's insulin-producing cells. Breast-fed infants who are not fed cow's milk seem to have a measure of protection against diabetes. Avoiding cow's milk may delay or prevent diabetes in susceptible individuals. A 2003 study of 4,701 ten to sixteen year-old adolescents from 11 European countries found that cow's milk and animal product consumption were associated with higher rates of type 1 diabetes when Icelandic data was excluded.10 Women & dairy According to gynecologist, Christiane Northrum, "Stopping dairy food often improves menstrual cramps, endometriosis pain, allergies, sinusitis and even recurrent vaginitis." Other problems associated with dairy food may include: benign breast conditions, chronic vaginal discharge, acne, fibroids, and chronic intestinal upset. "I can't help but think that there might be some correlation between over stimulation of the cow's mammary glands and subsequent over stimulation of our own, resulting in benign breast conditions."13 Stress, antibiotics, mastitis, and pus People who regard milk as "the perfect food" rarely think about milk as a commercial product – prone to the hazards of mass-production. John Robbins, author of May All Be Fed, puts it well; "The modern-day Bessie is now bred, fed, medicated, inseminated, and manipulated for a single purpose – maximum milk production at a minimum cost." In order to produce milk, a dairy cow must give birth. To maximize their milk supply they are artificially inseminated every year, meaning they are pregnant for a physically demanding 9 months out of every 12. Their calves are traumatically taken from them shortly after birth. The resulting surplus of calves feeds the veal industry. With genetic manipulation and intensive production technologies, Canadian cows produce an average of 9,519 kg of milk per year (2003) — seven times more than they would produce naturally. When their milk production wanes after about four years, dairy cows are sent to slaughter where their worn out bodies are ground up into hamburger. These unnatural conditions make the modern dairy cow highly prone to stress and disease. The most damaging stress-related disease is mastitis (an inflammation of the udders). It reduces milk yield and directly affects milk quality by altering composition and increasing the somatic cell count (pus). The National Mastitis Council estimates that it costs about $200 per cow per year on the average dairy farm. In Quebec, mastitis is the second-leading cause of culling.11 Antibiotics, mostly common penicillin, are given to cows for treatment of mastitis. Cows are not supposed to be milked for 48 hours after receiving penicillin. When this precaution is not followed the penicillin appears in the milk in small amounts.12 In 1993, Food and Drug Administration in the United States approved the use of a synthetic growth hormone, rBGH (also known as rBST). This genetically engineered hormone, so far banned in Canada and Europe, has no therapeutic value but to boost milk production. This can cause additional stress, and more frequent bouts of mastitis.
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"Do not be afraid! I am Esteban de la Sexface!" "In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice" Whehyll I can do EHYT!! Wehyll I can make it WAHN moh thihme! (wheyllit'sA reayllongwaytogooo! To say goodbhiiy!) -
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#51
08-24-2006, 02:32 PM
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DOES MILK CAUSE PROSTATE CANCER?
Gabe Mirkin, M.D. A provocative study from Harvard Medical School shows that men who eat diary products regularly have a 30 percent greater chance of suffering prostate cancer than those who eat less than half a serving per day. How can this be? Isn't milk a health food? Many of you will be shocked by these findings, but this study is the largest done yet, it is done by arguably the most respected epidemiology teams in the world and there is a physiologic explanation for the results. Milk is loaded with calcium and taking large amounts of calcium lowers blood levels of the body's form of vitamin D called 1,24 dihydroxyvitamin D that prevents cancers (2). Of course, milk is usually fortified with vitamin D, but there is so much more calcium than vitamin D in milk that the extra calcium drains vitamin D from the body. This study shows that men who take in more than six glasses of vitamin D fortified milk per week have lower levels of vitamin D than those who take in fewer than two glasses. This tells you that you shouldn't believe everything that you hear, even if it comes from scientific studies. These studies imply that you don't need to drink milk and that taking calcium supplements may harm you. Lack of vitamin D is usually caused by lack of sunlight as very few people get the vitamin D that they need from food. Vitamin D deficiency is common in winter, particularly in people who live in the northern parts of the globe and people with dark skin. 1) Results of the Physicians Study presented at the American Association for Cancer Research in San Francisco April 4, 2000. 2) AM Barreto, GG Schwartz, R Woodruff, SC Cramer. 5-hydroxyvitamin D-3, the prohormone of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D-3, inhibits the proliferation of primary prostatic epithelial cells.Cancer Epidemiology Biomarkers & Prevention, 2000, Vol 9, Iss 3, pp 265-270. these findings support a potential role for vitamin D in the chemoprevention of prostate cancer.
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"Do not be afraid! I am Esteban de la Sexface!" "In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice" Whehyll I can do EHYT!! Wehyll I can make it WAHN moh thihme! (wheyllit'sA reayllongwaytogooo! To say goodbhiiy!) -
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#52
08-24-2006, 02:46 PM
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With all the evidence available about the detriments of dairy, once you know that info, it is foolish to ignore it or try to refute it. So many studies from many parts of the world, many respected Colleges and Institutions, scientists, doctors, etc. I really don't give two squirts of a cow's udder if people drink milk, but I do care about misinformation being spread.
Breast Cancer and Dairy A Chat With Author, Scientist Jane Plant ABCNEWS.com Jan. 18 — chat "Drink milk — it will prevent osteoporosis." Women have heard that line for years. But scientist Jane Plant, author of Your Life in Your Hands, says you should put your glass down. Plant has faced breast cancer five times since 1987. Today her body is cancer-free and she attributes her recovery to a strict dairy-free diet. Plant claims there's a link between Western diets with high dairy consumption and high rates of breast cancer, though there is no medical proof of this. She joined us in a live chat following her appearance on Good Morning America. A transcript appears below. Moderator at 12:00pm ET We're joined by Jane Plant, a scientist and author of Your Life in Your Hands, a book chronicling her battle with breast cancer and her belief that a dairy-free diet saved her life. Despite having no family history of breast cancer, Jane had five recurrences of the disease. On her fifth diagnosis, given just three months to live, she turned to her training as a scientist and decided to cut dairy out of her diet. Seven years later, she is cancer-free. Jane, thanks for joining us. How did you arrive at the conclusion that the dairy products in your diet might be affecting your health? Jane Plant at 12:03pm ET Well, I had worked a lot in China on links between the environment and human health — for example, the relationship between selenium deficiency and heart disease — and the Chinese had given me, at that time, an atlas of cancer mortality in their country. Suddenly, when I was given a diagnosis of three months to live, I remembered that the atlas showed an incredibly low rate of breast cancer in China, and I tried to think what was behind that difference between the incidence China and the West. I wondered whether it was the low fat diet, but I'd had a low fat diet. I knew of the theory that the soya was protective, but I'd been having a lot of soya. And, suddenly, I remembered that all the Chinese people I knew wouldn't touch dairy products, because they often lack the enzyme needed to digest it. So I thought that that was worth a try. Moderator at 12:04pm ET Martha Waters asks: "Did you give up calcium supplements as well as dairy products?" Jane Plant at 12:05pm ET I don't take any calcium supplements, because the diet that I follow has lots of healthy sources of calcium in it. For example, certain vegetables are very rich in calcium and, indeed, some fruits are, too. Also, spreads such as tahini, which is a sesame spread, are very rich in calcium. So I have lived on a dairy-free diet now for seven and a half years, and I have no signs of osteoporosis. I have long, strong nails, and my health is better than it ever was. I believe that "calcium equals dairy" is a myth. Moderator at 12:05pm ET Tracey Newhall wonders: "What, specifically, is in dairy foods that contributes to the growth of cancer?" Jane Plant at 12:08pm ET Dairy products contain certain hormones, for example, estrogen and prolactin, which are contained in dairy milk, and oxytocin, and, in addition, they contain growth factors. These growth factors are designed to keep young cattle developing once they're out of the mother's womb and they can eat grass. One of these growth factors, called IGF-1, has been strongly implicated in both breast and prostate cancer by many researchers, and I've given the references to that research in the book. Also, milk can contain concentrations of artificial chemicals which the body cannot distinguish from hormones such as estrogen and these are thought to disrupt the body's hormone system. So dairy contains hormones, growth factors, and these stranger estrogens, all implicated in breast cancer. Chris from pm1.ezlink.com at 12:08pm ET Does it make a difference if the dairy product is organic? Is organic dairy OK to consume? Jane Plant at 12:09pm ET No, I don't think it is. It might be marginally safer, but not fundamentally. I only ate organic dairy products before I gave it all up. Georgina Nash, RN from proxy.aol.com at 12:09pm ET Jane, are you familiar with Dr. John McDougal and the "McDougal Plan"? His books have concrete evidence that dairy products are directly linked to breast cancer, and many other cancers! Jane Plant at 12:10pm ET That's very interesting, and I'd be very pleased to look at that, but, no, I'm not familiar with his work. Moderator at 12:11pm ET Neal writes: "I am a scientist working on cancer. Your theory linking milk and breast cancer is quite interesting. Milk [cow or goat] has been a regular staple of most people's diets for thousands of years. Yet, there has been absolutely no evidence over the millennia that milk and dairy products cause anything more than a lactose reaction. How do you rule out everything else in your life as the culprit (environmental carcinogens, mutations of cancer regulating genes, etc)?" Jane Plant at 12:13pm ET I think there are two types of carcinogens: those that cause cancer, and those that promote it. I believe that dairy promotes cancer, because of the substances in it. The statistics on breast cancer in countries like Thailand, Japan, China, and Korea, which never adopted a dairy diet, contrast very markedly with statistics in the West, where, as you say, people adopted the dairy diet from about eight thousand years ago. Studies between different populations, migrations studies, show that when Chinese people emigrate and live on a Western diet, their likelihood of developing these cancers increases. Studies done on breast cancer cultures are consistent with dairy products causing both breast cancer in women and prostate cancer in men. I've given all the references in my book, including one by three doctors from Princeton University in which they reviewed the findings of 135 research papers, and reached conclusions almost identical to those I've written about. Moderator at 12:14pm ET A question from Michael Manchester: "Dr. Frank Oski, pediatrician, former director of the Children's Center at John Hopkin's University and prolific author and lecturer wrote the book Don't Drink Your Milk in 1983 in which he questioned the presumed nutritional benefits of dairy products. Yet Dr. Oski also died of prostate cancer. Having not read this book, can you comment as to whether cancer issues are raised in it, and how it would be that an opponent of dairy would die of cancer. Would dairy contribute to breast cancer in a way that it wouldn't influence prostate cancer?" Jane Plant at 12:15pm ET I haven't read his book. I think dairy is associated with prostate cancer, but one of the problems with dairy is that it is hidden in other foods, and you don't always know when you're consuming dairy products. Meat can also contain levels of chemicals like IGF-1 and so I've described in the book how to cook meat safely to cut down the risk of IGF-1 and other hormones from meat getting into your diet. mary pf. from ncn.com at 12:15pm ET Could goat's milk [and derivative products] be any safer? Jane Plant at 12:16pm ET I don't know. But I decided to cut out all dairy products, because I just don't think they're necessary, and I don't want to take any risks. Kay Sanders at 12:16pm ET I am allergic to milk and milk products. I am a breast cancer survivor since 1985. Do you think stress or diet has the bigger impact on cancer patients? Jane Plant at 12:20pm ET I think it's diet, mainly, but, as I said, some other animal products have levels of IGF-1 in them, and it's important to check that you're not inadvertently consuming dairy. Sometimes you think you're buying a spread that has olive oil and it contains significant quantities of dairy. In the U.K., many prescription drugs are in a lactose matrix, and whey from milk can be the basis of many commercial soups, so people may be unaware that they're actually having dairy products. I would also like to add that the diet isn't just simply "cut out dairy." There are several food factors discussed in it. The book recommends changing from dairy to soya, provides information on which fruits and vegetables are protective against breast cancer, gives advice on getting your fat profile right, and it tells you which drinks are best to drink, and how to deal with recycled water that can contain hormones. So it isn't just as simple as cutting out dairy foods; it's a whole integrated program for tackling breast and prostate cancer. Moderator at 12:20pm ET Maria Aebi writes: "I am a one-year survivor or breast cancer. Previously, cheese played heavily in my diet. I wondered about its effect, but on the other hand, have you researched countries like Switzerland, for example, whose consumption of cheese per capita is high?" Jane Plant at 12:21pm ET Yes, and their breast cancer rates are very high. Most countries that follow a Western diet have very high rates of breast cancer, but the East coast of the USA. is actually the highest I've found. Gary from algx.iadfw.net at 12:21pm ET Do you find the highest incidence of breast cancer in those countries consuming greater amounts of dairy products such as the Netherlands, or does the U.S. lead in this disease? Jane Plant at 12:22pm ET As far as I can see, the U.S. leads in these diseases, and the U.S. has one of the highest consumptions of dairy products in the world. According to the U.S. statistical department, about 40 percent of the American diet can be made of dairy products. Think of all the dips, ice creams, yogurts, milk, cheese, spreads, and all the hidden dairy ingredients and you can see how this is possible. Moderator at 12:23pm ET Leslyn writes: "How can one eliminate dairy products from their diet and not risk osteoporosis?" Jane Plant at 12:24pm ET This comes up many times, but calcium is available in lots of other foods, especially vegetables and some fruits, and there are many other rich sources, such as tahini. I've been totally dairy-free for seven and a half years, I take no calcium supplements. I follow the diet in my book, and I've got very good bone density, very long, strong, fingernails, and no health problems. I have never felt better in my life! Fred Falkson from dialup.mindspring.com at 12:24pm ET Countries like China, Korea, and Thailand also have less red meat and animal fat consumption than the U.S. Do you think this is a factor in the cancer rates? Jane Plant at 12:26pm ET Yes, I think it could be, because they have a much higher proportion of their calories from vegetable sources, particularly vegetables and fruits, and that could be an important factor. The book isn't simply cut out dairy; it's a whole integrated lifestyle program designed to eliminate everything that's been implicated in causing breast cancer and increasing everything that has been shown to be protective against breast cancer. In the case of China, they have meat cut into tiny little portions, and cooked through very thoroughly. They don't tend to eat big slabs of meat, as we do in the West. Julie from proxy.aol.com at 12:31pm ET Do you avoid other food items such as gluten (wheat products)? Jane Plant at 12:31pm ET I don't avoid wheat products. I've explained why not in the book. I don't think it's a factor in breast cancer. Marilyn from proxy.aol.com at 12:32pm ET I was wondering of you had Type A or Type O blood? Because, according to the work of Dr. Peter D'Adamo, dairy is basically bad for those blood types. Jane Plant at 12:33pm ET I have type AB blood, and I'm aware of the idea that dairy can be eaten by only one blood group, but I'm not sure whether the breast cancer statistics are such that it relates to blood type. Moderator at 12:34pm ET Chris asks: "What kind of medical therapies did you use in the way of chemotherapy and radiation? Do you agree with conventional medicine along with alternative medicine?" Jane Plant at 12:35pm ET Yes, I agree — it is essential to have your conventional medical treatment, and the diet and lifestyle book I've put together is aimed at complementing traditional medicine, not replacing it. In my own case, I had a radical mastectomy, three further operations, thirty five radiotherapy treatments to the chest wall, I had my ovaries irradiated to induce menopause, and the cancer just kept coming back. I was into my chemotherapy treatment, which was having no measurable effect on the tumor in my neck, when I decided to try to live like a Chinese person, and it was at that point that my cancer started to go. It disappeared in five weeks. I had helped 63 other women by the time I wrote the book. They followed my diet, which is no dairy, but as I said, it's more complicated than that. Moderator at 12:36pm ET Carol Rowzie asks: "How do we get the food industry to understand the damage that over-consumption of dairy products does to our bodies? Dairy products are in almost all pre-packaged foods and in most fresh prepared recipes. We need to be "over- whelmed" with good alternatives, i.e., soy/other plant based foods. Given the power of the dairy industry (lobbying, relationship with medical community, etc.), how do we re-educate the public to this very serious issue? Speaking from personal experience, this is a great drain of resources on our health care system and personal lives." Jane Plant at 12:37pm ET Well, I've tried to do it by publishing my book and by publicizing the issue as, indeed, have other people. Ultimately, the main weapon we have is our buying power. If we just stop buying products with dairy in them, and replace them with healthy alternatives, people will start moving out of an industry if nobody wants to buy the products. I would like to say, I didn't set out to damage the dairy industry, and I would hope they could find some alternative ways to make their products.
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"Do not be afraid! I am Esteban de la Sexface!" "In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice" Whehyll I can do EHYT!! Wehyll I can make it WAHN moh thihme! (wheyllit'sA reayllongwaytogooo! To say goodbhiiy!) - Last edited by amber; 08-24-2006 at 03:34 PM..
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#53
08-24-2006, 04:09 PM
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No time now, so I skimmed (teehee.) I promise I will read all of it when I actually have time to read & study it, and do a bit of research myself. I will say this - there is no study that definitively absolutely positively links milk to increased rates of cancer or diabetes. Is it possible? Of course. Is it definite? No. And is it the only cause? Probably not - in conjunction with other factors, possibly. Plenty of other things linked to the increase in allergies too.
Who the hell recommends 5-6 servings of dairy a day?  That's ridiculous. I believe the food guide recommends 2 or 3.  Yogurt is GOOD for maintaining normal vaginal flora. FYI. There are several studies showing that soy increases your risk for breast cancer. Am I going to tell someone they're an idiot because they think soy is healthy? Nope. Because it's a theory, not a proven fact. I'm not going to stop eating soy, but I'm not going to start eating soy everything either. Just like I don't ingest more than 2 or 3 servings of dairy per day. Everything in moderation.
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#54
08-24-2006, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
 Seriously. It only makes sense, especially having read about the studies for about 10 years like I have been. Also, have you considered the fact that the new information available is right, even though it's different then your old information? Again, I don't care how much dairy you eat, I'm trying to pass the information that it isn't really good for you. People who ignore the overwhelming data of the past few decades that says the same, or try to refute it - I don't get it. I don't want to be right, I want to be the best informed. And, clearly, I am. If something new comes out that goes against what I thought before, and there is a lot of good data to support it, I don't care that I was wrong before, I don't cling to my old ideas because I'm stubborn and that's what I always learned. Or because the new data is contrary to my lifestyle choices. There are no health benefits to drinking cow's milk, according to my years of research, which is based on scientists and doctor's years of research. I'm sad that some people actually believe it is good for you. And I want them to know the real story, because lots of people actually want to make the most healthful choice possible. "Moderation" is fine, but not even close to optimal. And you just admittedly made an uninformed conclusion, you did not read the scientific evidence that I posted. Yet, you stuck to your opinion, intimating that it was informed. How can you know if what I say isn't true, if you haven't seen the data? Just because you learned what you think is true before, and you already knew it? Is that what makes it right? People learn new things every day, things change constantly. Oh, and BTW, one of the things I posted said yogurt cultures are good for you, but that you should get non dairy yogurt, which is widely available - because it is better for you. I don't know for how long you have been studying nutrition, or how regularly, but the other day you didn't even know that the meals you were fixing for yourself were too carb heavy, and you needed to add some protein and fiber. But suddenly you are an up to the minute info expert on milk? It's possible, and bless you, but it doesn't logically jibe that you would be. Especially not comparitively. I'm not saying a small amount of milk/dairy in someone's diet will necessarily cause harm. I'm saying no matter what amount you eat/drink, it doesn't have nutritional value to your body. Will everyone get breast cancer from it? No. But it isn't a healthful choice. Just like eating candybars, or hamburgers, isn't a healthful choice. At best, I would call it neutral. Well, I wouldn't, really, but that's the best I can call it. I love you and all, I just think the studies are right, and that when people cut dairy from their diet, their bodies significantly benefit in myriad ways. I'm also a person who was vegan once, so I do have some first hand experience.
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"Do not be afraid! I am Esteban de la Sexface!" "In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice" Whehyll I can do EHYT!! Wehyll I can make it WAHN moh thihme! (wheyllit'sA reayllongwaytogooo! To say goodbhiiy!) - Last edited by amber; 08-25-2006 at 12:23 AM..
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#55
08-25-2006, 01:44 AM
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interesting stuff, amber. i actually wouldn't terribly mind cutting out dairy. i only get about half a serving a day now (i usually have half a cup of yogurt), so i wouldn't be missing a lot.
also, weight loss count is 8 pounds now. and it's definitely visually noticeable.  oh, and i am such a dork. i lost my gym card, and had to get it replaced (for $10!). then, i misplaced the replacement, and found my card, only it's the original lost card, and i can't use it! and i can't find my replacement! goddddddd.
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#56
08-25-2006, 02:01 AM
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Congrats on the two more lbs! It's noticeable already? That is great, I'm sure it's very motivating, too. Yeah, dairy doesn't really have nutrients that are beneficial. I mean, they have nutrients, but are loaded with fat, and also your body may not be able to absorb the nutrients, and the nutrients are those that you can get much betterly from other foods, and they simultaneously contain things that harm your body. Yogurt is the best, but can be way better if you get non dairy yogurt. I'm suprised you've cut your dairy so much, because I know you've cut your meat as well. But you can really get enough protein without those things. I'm sooo happy for you!  (I know, it's dorky to be that happy for you, but still). I'm glad you said something. I didn't mean to be a biatch, but I've just been reading so much for so long about the detriments of dairy that it frustrates me when people discount that. I've seen so much that it just seems irrefutible.  I mean, I been knowing it and reading it and keeping track of the studies since ...1994? About that.
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"Do not be afraid! I am Esteban de la Sexface!" "In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice" Whehyll I can do EHYT!! Wehyll I can make it WAHN moh thihme! (wheyllit'sA reayllongwaytogooo! To say goodbhiiy!) -
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#57
08-25-2006, 02:08 AM
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yeah, i used to get around 3 servings of dairy, but i decided cheese was too fatty, and i stopped eating cold cereal. i'm still getting enough protein, because my cereal is high in p, i eat a lot of almonds, and i eat an apple & pb every day. oh, and fake meat. i've been eating a lot of that.
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#58
08-25-2006, 02:18 AM
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 <=== that is in response to your rate of losage. That is kind of weird considering the limited amounts of space you occupy.  <==== That is in response to your excellent dietary choices! I couldn't have done it better myself. And haven't recently, really. Now I totally crave those fake chix patties. Have you tried the spicy ones? I think they are morningstar. Mmmmmmm. Delectable.
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"Do not be afraid! I am Esteban de la Sexface!" "In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice" Whehyll I can do EHYT!! Wehyll I can make it WAHN moh thihme! (wheyllit'sA reayllongwaytogooo! To say goodbhiiy!) -
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#59
08-25-2006, 02:22 AM
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#60
08-25-2006, 02:36 AM
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Never tried the black bean. But, I don't order black beans on my burritos, either. Not a favorite. That is one area where I'm kinda bad - lots of beans are on the "most antioxidental" list, but I don't like to eat beans that much. Lentils are my favorite. I don't like rice much, either. I order my burritos with no, or light, beans and rice. And then, I never want the black beans. Only pinto. Which are better for you, but not when refried. It's all very complex, dont'cha know. Anyhoo, blah blah, you rock, etc.  I'm sorry to be so effervescent, but you are kicking so much ass that it is inspiring.
__________________
"Do not be afraid! I am Esteban de la Sexface!" "In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice" Whehyll I can do EHYT!! Wehyll I can make it WAHN moh thihme! (wheyllit'sA reayllongwaytogooo! To say goodbhiiy!) -
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So, Paula, tell me - do you think milk is healthy? Hmm? Do you? Would you tell someone, say "Try to eat at least five servings of fruits, veggies, and milk per day for optimum health"? 
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