Stevie & Lindsey Intimacy

[michelej1]

Thankfully, that banter goes away after the return of one songbird...

Well, it might not go away entirely, but you sure won't get 9 minutes of it.

Michele

[brickney723]

Thankfully, that banter goes away after the return of one songbird...

:shocked: The banter is the best part!

[lulu28]

:shocked: The banter is the best part!

Yes!:laugh:

[ragrsrocalot]

aww, love it when he goes off the script!

here's Michele's description of that (from http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=1104603&postcount=92):

"When she turns the story over to Lindsey, he (fake) blusters and finally says that when Mick called him he said that he wouldn’t come without his girlfriend because he loved her that much. She bows to him. Then he adds, “And look where that got me.” Stevie howls, “No you DIDN’T just say that?!”

Lindsey scurries to Mick’s side and Stevie says he is hiding behind Mick. She advises Mick to just hit Lindsey with the sticks. "

Yes, I remember reading that when it was originally posted. My reference to that part of the video( when after saying the you have to take my girlfriend too part, he looks over at Stevie, ponders for a moment, then asks, "And where did that get me?") came to mind when I read your comment about Lindsey finally growing up,being over it, done.

[elle]

Thankfully, that banter goes away after the return of one songbird...
i'm happy we won't have 10 minute rambling in the middle of the set, yeah. but a little bit a banter here and there is always welcomed, as far as i'm concerned - as long as it doesn't take the place that can be used for 2 songs instead, when there are so many songs we want to hear them play.

Yes, I remember reading that when it was originally posted. My reference to that part of the video( when after saying the you have to take my girlfriend too part, he looks over at Stevie, ponders for a moment, then asks, "And where did that get me?") came to mind when I read your comment about Lindsey finally growing up,being over it, done.
:confused: you seem to imply that what i wrote and that specific line are contradictory - can you clarify why?

most other times LB says "it worked out ok!" considering huge success the band had with both of them joining. what does he mean by turning it around and joking "where did that get me?" -maybe that he might have been better off if he didn't bring her to FM with him? ;) maybe career-wise he'd be more successful if only he joined? or on a personal level, they wouldn't have to deal with all the old relationship baggage for decades after? idk.

he changed his line a bit and that's fun, i'm not sure there has to be some deep meaning to it. there was also that other time when he said "it wasn't looking good for ya, was it?" when she's talking about being a cleaning lady going nowhere before joining FM.

it's also funny because every time he says something a bit different she seems to be a bit caught off guard, but after initial surprise she just goes back to whatever she was gonna say anyway.

[vivfox]

i'm happy we won't have 10 minute rambling in the middle of the set, yeah. but a little bit a banter here and there is always welcomed, as far as i'm concerned -

You mean unless it was your precious Lindsey doing the rambling. After all the FM tours I've seen, the Without You intro became my favorite part of the show. I've heard all those songs performed a million and one times with the exception of SA of course. I did also enjoy very much when Lindsey threw in a few digs toward Stevie. Certainly kept her on her toes now, didn't it. (Can't hear each other onstage? Fooey)

[elle]

Yes, I remember reading that when it was originally posted. My reference to that part of the video( when after saying the you have to take my girlfriend too part, he looks over at Stevie, ponders for a moment, then asks, "And where did that get me?") came to mind when I read your comment about Lindsey finally growing up,being over it, done.

of course, there's maybe the most prosaic one - he did her a favor and she promptly dumped him. ;) :D :p

[elle]

You mean unless it was your precious Lindsey doing the rambling. After all the FM tours I've seen, the Without You intro became my favorite part of the show. I've heard all those songs performed a million and one times with the exception of SA of course. I did also enjoy very much when Lindsey threw in a few digs toward Stevie. Certainly kept her on her toes now, didn't it. (Can't hear each other onstage? Fooey)

but of course! ;)

i'd rather hear him ramble than giving pre-scripted speeches as he does. but really, i'd prefer watching him tune his guitar even more. :xoxo: :D

seriously though, i'd much rather hear 2 songs instead of a 10-minute rambling in the FM set. but i can understand after seeing the last year's tour how fed-up long term fans have become by practically the exact same setlist from date to date and tour to tour, so people are happy with what little crumbs they can get.

[michelej1]

You mean unless it was your precious Lindsey doing the rambling.

I think banter was the correct term, because even though Stevie talked the longest, it wasn't just her speech. Even Mick, the most silent, had a part. So, it's not like it was something that only Stevie fans would enjoy or only Stevie fans would criticize.

I mean, if anyone would dislike it because of who was doing it, I think it would be John fans.

Michele

[MikeInNV]

i'm happy we won't have 10 minute rambling in the middle of the set, yeah. but a little bit a banter here and there is always welcomed, as far as i'm concerned - as long as it doesn't take the place that can be used for 2 songs instead, when there are so many songs we want to hear them play.


:confused: you seem to imply that what i wrote and that specific line are contradictory - can you clarify why?

most other times LB says "it worked out ok!" considering huge success the band had with both of them joining. what does he mean by turning it around and joking "where did that get me?" -maybe that he might have been better off if he didn't bring her to FM with him? ;) maybe career-wise he'd be more successful if only he joined? or on a personal level, they wouldn't have to deal with all the old relationship baggage for decades after? idk.

he changed his line a bit and that's fun, i'm not sure there has to be some deep meaning to it. there was also that other time when he said "it wasn't looking good for ya, was it?" when she's talking about being a cleaning lady going nowhere before joining FM.

it's also funny because every time he says something a bit different she seems to be a bit caught off guard, but after initial surprise she just goes back to whatever she was gonna say anyway.

I think you are right that there's doesn't have to be deep meaning to any of this. I always took the whole thing as fun, and I would bet they both feel that the truth is what he said most often.....that it worked out well for both of them. The banter is just a way for them to remember how they started together and that 40 years later, they are rich, famous, and still doing what they love. How much better could it get?

[michelej1]

The banter is just a way for them to remember how they started together and that 40 years later, they are rich, famous, and still doing what they love. How much better could it get?

What's magical is imagining that if you closed your eyes and opened them and it was 40 years ago, you still might find them on a stage together. Ha ha. You still might find them singing one of the same songs they are singing now -- which is kind of sad that they haven't been able to scrounge together any more tunes, but ...

But because we have pictures, you can see the past and see the present and it is something to celebrate. So much has changed, but who would have thought so much would be the same back then.

It will be the same thing when Christine returns. 39 years ago. Same five people. "It's been a long strange journey. But here we are."

Michele

[brickney723]

I think you are right that there's doesn't have to be deep meaning to any of this. I always took the whole thing as fun, and I would bet they both feel that the truth is what he said most often.....that it worked out well for both of them. The banter is just a way for them to remember how they started together and that 40 years later, they are rich, famous, and still doing what they love. How much better could it get?

I, on the other hand, immediately conjured image of LB mentally covering his mouth with both hands after he let that little gem slip out. L.O.V.E. it when he (unfortunately, ever so rarely) strays off course. Love IT.

[elle]

What's magical is imagining that if you closed your eyes and opened them and it was 40 years ago, you still might find them on a stage together. Ha ha. You still might find them singing one of the same songs they are singing now -- which is kind of sad that they haven't been able to scrounge together any more tunes, but ...

But because we have pictures, you can see the past and see the present and it is something to celebrate. So much has changed, but who would have thought so much would be the same back then.

It will be the same thing when Christine returns. 39 years ago. Same five people. "It's been a long strange journey. But here we are."

Michele
ha - i feel like focusing on these as negatives :p. how sad!

yeah it's all great for them like Mike said (which i completely agree with! -:thumbsup:) rich and famous and doing what they love... and apparently they love to do the same songs over and over and over and over.......... and it will be the same thing when Christine returns. :distress:

[elle]

But because we have pictures, you can see the past and see the present and it is something to celebrate. So much has changed, but who would have thought so much would be the same back then.

It will be the same thing when Christine returns. 39 years ago. Same five people. "It's been a long strange journey. But here we are."

Michele

yes. many old bands of their era (or even older) are still around, same as them, but not all people are there anymore. same 5 people as in 1975 is definitely something to celebrate. :nod:

[elle]

I, on the other hand, immediately conjured image of LB mentally covering his mouth with both hands after he let that little gem slip out. L.O.V.E. it when he (unfortunately, ever so rarely) strays off course. Love IT.
:laugh: well, he did get booed for it, didn't he?

but he seemed all happy with himself and his witty remark, not regretting it. i get a feeling even he likes a bit of a change of pace on stage for time to time. ;)

[brickney723]

:laugh: well, he did get booed for it, didn't he?

but he seemed all happy with himself and his witty remark, not regretting it. i get a feeling even he likes a bit of a change of pace on stage for time to time. ;)

He actually did say something similar during one of his solo shows once- something to the effect of- "but I guess it turned out okay! ..or maybe.. not." I love him.

[michelej1]

but he seemed all happy with himself and his witty remark, not regretting it.

Yes, he thought he was a card. Bon mots for everyone.

Michele

[elle]

He actually did say something similar during one of his solo shows once-

yeah he's much more of-the-cuff during his solo shows, if he's in the mood or if audience is engaging him.

with FM, he started being more responsive as the tour progressed, especially during Big Love intro, when he's alone on the stage. guess it's a bit harder with big venues, because only people upfront hear the whole conversation, most hear just his replies. at solo shows the venues are small so almost everybody's in on both sides of the banter.

[nicole21290]

i'm happy we won't have 10 minute rambling in the middle of the set, yeah. but a little bit a banter here and there is always welcomed, as far as i'm concerned - as long as it doesn't take the place that can be used for 2 songs instead, when there are so many songs we want to hear them play.

This is the kind of thing I've heard you mention a few times. Can I just point something out? Even if the GDW outro HADN'T been extended and even if the WY speech HADN'T lengthened, there would've been no more songs. The show just would have been shorter. The 'rambling' isn't taking the place of songs (or proposed songs) at all - it's just extending the showtime somewhat. Certainly, the very first show, the introduction for Without You was only about a minute and a half - wasn't intended to go for ten minutes, lol.

For me, the WY intro was one of the highlights, for sure. As the tour went on and Lindsey's involvement became more prominent, and they went off-message even more, I just loved it more. I can listen to almost identical versions of Big Love over and over again but I won't be hearing/seeing SnL quoting Katy Perry at each other, or Stevie pulling out a laundry list of the ways she used to care for him (and I also loved you). We don't usually get to see exchanged onstage ILUs or 'fact checking' or talk of their sleazy friends or talk of Lindsey going outside to walk in his T-shirt (outrageous!!!) or Lindsey calling her 'baby' and crowing proudly about how loving and loyal a boyfriend he was. We don't usually get to see Stevie calling him fantastic, smoking' hot, brilliant, so sexy onstage, and we don't get to see that more natural banter all the time. I love/d it. And the song wasn't half bad either... :D

[brickney723]

Yes, I remember reading that when it was originally posted. My reference to that part of the video( when after saying the you have to take my girlfriend too part, he looks over at Stevie, ponders for a moment, then asks, "And where did that get me?") came to mind when I read your comment about Lindsey finally growing up,being over it, done.

But, yeah, getting back to this as I had to get some things done today.. I agree with you. Let's put it this way-

I am absolutely, 100% sure, of one thing. Three actually. Let me mentally put on my protective headgear before I proceed..

If LB could rewind back to that fateful moment back in 1974 knowing what he knows now, would he have:

joined Fleetwood Mac with Stevie? No.
joined Fleetwood Mac without Stevie? No.

Was that relationship important enough to him to risk losing fame, wealth and artistic license over something that might not have survived anyway? Yes.

Period. End of story. Commence with beatings.

[brickney723]

This is the kind of thing I've heard you mention a few times. Can I just point something out? Even if the GDW outro HADN'T been extended and even if the WY speech HADN'T lengthened, there would've been no more songs. The show just would have been shorter. The 'rambling' isn't taking the place of songs (or proposed songs) at all - it's just extending the showtime somewhat. Certainly, the very first show, the introduction for Without You was only about a minute and a half - wasn't intended to go for ten minutes, lol.

For me, the WY intro was one of the highlights, for sure. As the tour went on and Lindsey's involvement became more prominent, and they went off-message even more, I just loved it more. I can listen to almost identical versions of Big Love over and over again but I won't be hearing/seeing SnL quoting Katy Perry at each other, or Stevie pulling out a laundry list of the ways she used to care for him (and I also loved you). We don't usually get to see exchanged onstage ILUs or 'fact checking' or talk of their sleazy friends or talk of Lindsey going outside to walk in his T-shirt (outrageous!!!) or Lindsey calling her 'baby' and crowing proudly about how loving and loyal a boyfriend he was. We don't usually get to see Stevie calling him fantastic, smoking' hot, brilliant, so sexy onstage, and we don't get to see that more natural banter all the time. I love/d it. And the song wasn't half bad either... :D

I loved all these things too… The whole what a loving/loyal boyfriend thing, especially- he's just turning the screw- and then acts totally innocent when she calls him on it.

[ragrsrocalot]

i'm happy we won't have 10 minute rambling in the middle of the set, yeah. but a little bit a banter here and there is always welcomed, as far as i'm concerned - as long as it doesn't take the place that can be used for 2 songs instead, when there are so many songs we want to hear them play.


:confused: you seem to imply that what i wrote and that specific line are contradictory - can you clarify why?

most other times LB says "it worked out ok!" considering huge success the band had with both of them joining. what does he mean by turning it around and joking "where did that get me?" -maybe that he might have been better off if he didn't bring her to FM with him? ;) maybe career-wise he'd be more successful if only he joined? or on a personal level, they wouldn't have to deal with all the old relationship baggage for decades after? idk.

he changed his line a bit and that's fun, i'm not sure there has to be some deep meaning to it. there was also that other time when he said "it wasn't looking good for ya, was it?" when she's talking about being a cleaning lady going nowhere before joining FM.

it's also funny because every time he says something a bit different she seems to be a bit caught off guard, but after initial surprise she just goes back to whatever she was gonna say anyway.

No implication, no contradiction, and definitely no deep meaning. Just trying to say that I believe they both like to stir the pot, push a button, make a joke, take a jab, whatever you like to say, and yes, I think that is totally funny when they do. I think that will always be a part of their interaction with one another. Just think it goes both ways, that's all. Like when Lindsey says " that's love baby ", " or that's loyalty ", through much of the tour, and then, I think at one of the European shows, Stevie felt the need to list all of her cleaning duties to him and the audience, to let them know that she showed her love to him as well, to which Lindsey replied, " I can't win ". To me, it goes back and forth, and I love it.

[elle]

or talk of Lindsey going outside to walk in his T-shirt (outrageous!!!) or Lindsey calling her 'baby' and crowing proudly about how loving and loyal a boyfriend he was. We don't usually get to see Stevie calling him fantastic, smoking' hot, brilliant, so sexy onstage, and we don't get to see that more natural banter all the time. I love/d it. And the song wasn't half bad either... :D

oh i have no idea and would love to know what that was about?

agree that it's not much use discussing what's better or more enjoyable, we all like different things. while someone like SteveMacD or i would rather skip the ramble, you are right - your preferences fit in the romantic intimacy thread, ours don't. plus vivfox is right too - i wouldn't be bothered nearly as much if Lindsey was the one doing the rambling. :p

unfortunately it's a fact that they wouldn't change or add more songs instead of 10-minute ramble, but that's the first thing that came to my mind every time i was at the show and WY intro started. can't help it, whether or not you don't like my expressing that. ;)

[elle]

No implication, no contradiction, and definitely no deep meaning. Just trying to say that I believe they both like to stir the pot, push a button, make a joke, take a jab, whatever you like to say, and yes, I think that is totally funny when they do. I think that will always be a part of their interaction with one another. Just think it goes both ways, that's all. Like when Lindsey says " that's love baby ", " or that's loyalty ", through much of the tour, and then, I think at one of the European shows, Stevie felt the need to list all of her cleaning duties to him and the audience, to let them know that she showed her love to him as well, to which Lindsey replied, " I can't win ". To me, it goes back and forth, and I love it.
cool - completely agree! :thumbsup: :wavey:

yeah i think he called her passive aggressive for not saying anything through like 40 shows and finally blowing the lid. :laugh:

[nicole21290]

oh i have no idea and would love to know what that was about?

Second Dublin show. On the 21st of September. Can't grab the clip right now, sorry.

S: Yes! Please! Jump in!
L: Say something. Let's see. *pause* Sure was hot today. I took a walk; I had to put a T-shirt on
S: And that is outrageous!

agree that it's not much use discussing what's better or more enjoyable, we all like different things. while someone like SteveMacD or i would rather skip the ramble, you are right - your preferences fit in the romantic intimacy thread, ours don't. plus vivfox is right too - i wouldn't be bothered nearly as much if Lindsey was the one doing the rambling. :p

Yep, agreed on that. I try and use the terms 'I think' and 'in my opinion' exactly for that reason. Some things are subjective. See, I would think the ramble would have more positives than drawbacks for you - increases the amount of time Lindsey's on stage, increases the amount he says, and increases the improvised chat and actions (such as driving a car) from him... Plus, you get to enjoy Lindsey bowing and preening as he gets called gorgeous or sexy or smokin' hot. :D And you're quite right, my preferences do fit rather well in this thread. SHOCKING NEWS.

unfortunately it's a fact that they wouldn't change or add more songs instead of 10-minute ramble, but that's the first thing that came to my mind every time i was at the show and WY intro started. can't help it, whether or not you don't like my expressing that. ;)

Ah, fair enough. It just seems quite an illogical way to look at the speech - I don't understand being resentful of it taking up time for two songs that wouldn't be added to the set even if the speech wasn't there... Ah, feel free to express whatever you want; doesn't bother me. Opinion is opinion, lol. Even if it's wrong... ;)

cool - completely agree! :thumbsup: :wavey:

yeah i think he called her passive aggressive for not saying anything through like 40 shows and finally blowing the lid. :laugh:

Nah, he didn't say that - just expressed mock frustration at never being able to win. Definitely one of my favourite Without You exchanges though, what with Stevie actually having had prepared a long list of the ways she cared for and loved Lindsey. Wouldn't want the audience to think it was one-sided, lol.

S: You're right. They needed a smokin' hot, fantastic lead guitarist. Ta da! And I magically pulled him out of my pocket. And I said, "Well, that's true." And so the whole story wraps around to this - and if Lindsey wants to speak, he will - I like to tell this story because I really do want to- He's backing away! He's backing away. I like to say thank you, Lindsey, for telling Mick when he called and asked you to join Fleetwood Mac - thank you for saying whatever it is that you said. Which, would you like to step up to the mic and finish the story? Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Lindsey Buckingham.

L: Me? You want me to talk?

S: Yeah. I'd like you to say something.

L: *pondering* Say something

S: Nice. *laughs*

L: That's very difficult for me. *S laughs* Right? *L laughs* *clears throat* Okay, well, let's see. Yes, it's true, it's absolutely true. Mick had heard a song of ours. And their guitarist left and I got a phone call. I did not, I'd only met Mick once very briefly. And he said, "Lindsey, it's Mick Fleetwood."
"Hi, Mick."
"Lindsey, would you like to join Fleetwood Mac?"
And, of course, what did I say? What did I say? I said, "If you're going to take me, Mick, you gotta take my girlfriend too!!!"
And that, Stevie, *voice gets deeper* baby, that is loooooove.

S: Can I just add, in Stuttgart, to that little story since you do like to throw that in, that for five years previous to that I washed your jeans, sewed moons and stars on them, fringed them, ironed your T-shirts-

L: This is a new, uh-

S: made your house beautiful, cooked dinner, cleaned the house, was a waitress AND a cleaning lady, and also *voice gets softer* loved you.

L: That's right.

S: So, it wasn't just a one-sided deal.

L: Did I say it was?

S: Nooooo, but it kinda comes across like thaaat... We're letting you in to the seriousness of this whole thing.

L: So, all this time-

S: I don't think they really want to come in here.

L: All this time, I've been saying "that's love, baby" you've been going "*sniffs* Hmph".

S: Kind of. *laughs*

L: I can't win! Geez! I did. I loved you with all my heart-

S: I know.

L: -didn't I?

S: Yes, you did.

L: And you loved me too.

S: And I did. And that's why we went together into Fleetwood Mac.

L: That's right.

[michelej1]

If LB could rewind back to that fateful moment back in 1974 knowing what he knows now, would he have:

joined Fleetwood Mac with Stevie? No.
joined Fleetwood Mac without Stevie? No.



And I am 100% sure that he still would have joined FM with her. Maybe he would have even listened to a couple of FM albums back to front as well. Although, he might like to play "sliding doors" a little and find out what could have happened if BN had still been on their own when they were welcomed in Birmingham.

Can't complain, standing in the Bel Air rain.

Michele

[elle]

Second Dublin show. On the 21st of September. Can't grab the clip right now, sorry.

S: Yes! Please! Jump in!
L: Say something. Let's see. *pause* Sure was hot today. I took a walk; I had to put a T-shirt on
S: And that is outrageous!

thanks for that and the other transcriptions. :xoxo:

lol re t-shirt. of course, that day in Dublin, according to those gorgeous pics of LB hanging out with Madness, it was so cold that he not only had his hole-y t-shirt on but also a jacket and another coat over it, when he went out for a walk.

[singertobe]

I found a fanfiction called "the proposal" that focuses mainly on John and Christine getting back together. But there is some intimacy moments between Lindsey and Stevie. It was very awkward for me to read, but I'm sure some of you would like it:rolleyes:. I can't quote it here because its too inappropriate and I think the story is copyrighted. If you're under 18 DON'T read.
http://www.mediafire.com/view/jp06v7urjbg3231/Part+Two+The+Proposal.doc

[HelloMonster]

http://i.imgur.com/TIVp2.gif

[singertobe]

http://i.imgur.com/TIVp2.gif

I don't get it:shrug:
Wait, was that in response to my post? If it was, that's the same face I had when I read it:laugh:

[brickney723]

And I am 100% sure that he still would have joined FM with her. Maybe he would have even listened to a couple of FM albums back to front as well. Although, he might like to play "sliding doors" a little and find out what could have happened if BN had still been on their own when they were welcomed in Birmingham.

Can't complain, standing in the Bel Air rain.

Michele

Then one of us is 100% wrong and…

I Know I'm Not Wrong

(haha, just playing, I could not resist! ;))

I don't read fan fiction (or any fiction for that matter), only because I like dealing with reality.. like anything else, I'm sure some is good and some is not so good, but didn't check out the link to see.

[nicole21290]

And I am 100% sure that he still would have joined FM with her. Maybe he would have even listened to a couple of FM albums back to front as well. Although, he might like to play "sliding doors" a little and find out what could have happened if BN had still been on their own when they were welcomed in Birmingham.

Can't complain, standing in the Bel Air rain.

Michele

Oh, but eventually everyone gets tamed...

As for the matter of joining FM or not, he approaches talking about it differently than Stevie. She generally likes to do her 'LINDSEY regrets joining cos we probably would've stayed in SF, got married, had kids' spiel and occasionally throws in a 'and sometimes I think we may have as well' type sentiment. Lindsey, on the other hand, doesn't mention it as much:

1992
"And there are times I wonder what would have happened if, say Stevie and I had continued on whatever path we were on, with that little cult thing going on down South."

2003
The closing, six million dollar question goes to Lindsey Buckingham. And, to his credit, he actually tries to answer it honestly. The question I put to him is this; which would he rather have saved - Fleetwood Mac or his relationship with Stevie? "Oh boy. What an interesting question. What a tough question" he says seemingly not quite sure how best to answer it. And then eventually: "I’m 53, with a beautiful wife and two beautiful children, so I can’t say that my life has gone any other way than the way it was supposed to." So destiny rules? I ask, name-checking one of those Stevie Nicks songs that sounds like it could be about him. Buckingham laughs. “Yes”

2011
"I spent a lot of time with Stevie when she was, uh, making her solo album this last year and we spent a lot of really nice quality time - I've known Stevie since I was in high school so, y'know, it's, uh, nice to think there might be a chapter of two left to play out."
Mm. Professionally?
"Yes."
Yeah.
"Absolutely."
You know, when I sat down with Stevie, very much like this, in her home when her new album came out, she said this about you: she said, first of all that she loves you to death and you're the best of friends and she's so happy for you and your family and wife and she couldn't be happier. But she said this, she said that if she, if you guys had not left San Francisco and moved to Los Angeles that you would still be together, more than likely married, but that you would still be successful.
"Mm."
How do you feel about that?
"Well, that's a nice thought. Uh, you know, it's so hard to second guess events that have transpired and what a different road might have meant. *edit cut* What did happen was meant to happen the way it did and I personally couldn't be happier with the way things have turned out."

[brickney723]

Yes! And these are things which he is saying publicly… which is why I was so bold as to say just how sure I am about this.. Also, in a radio program I have from 2007, the interviewer lists all of the fortuitous events which have occurred in his life leading up to today… and does he ever wish/wonder if he'd taken an another road… He says the only thing he wonders about is joining FM. I think that says so much.. if he's willing to say that much publicly.

[michelej1]

1992
"And there are times I wonder what would have happened if, say Stevie and I had continued on whatever path we were on, with that little cult thing going on down South."


Yes, I think he wonders more about Alabama than he does about him and Stevie, because he knows that he and Stevie had problems. He thinks they might have worked them out, but she says that being in FM probably made them last longer than they otherwise would have and I think he probably realizes that too.

She says he wouldn't have been so torn up about their break up if they hadn't been in the same band and she may know from experience. When she left him to move back up North and fell in love with someone, she doesn't say he was breaking her neck trying to get her back. Instead, I gather he was in Southern California, smoking and continuing to make music with Richard and figured Stevie would come back when she came back, wagging her tail behind her.

The fact that he knew she was tired of working as a waitress and cleaning lady, but he still wouldn't agree to play steak houses tells me that he wasn't really that interested in doing just anything to keep her. If they worked steakhouses, at least their careers would have bound him to her and kept her at his side for the money, despite domestic conflicts, but he didn't want it that way.

He was concerned with some sort of musical integrity without compromises even then. So, I think the idea of being in BN and making their own musical choices really appeals to him. On the other hand, I can't think of a lot of examples of duos that made it (of course there are Dave and Annie) and I think part of him wanted to "make it." I think he likes that he got to do Tusk. He likes that he got to spend 13 months and all of that money on Tusk. Even if he doesn't say he loved having money, the money that the first two albums brought him, I think he would admit loving to have the power that FM had to make Tusk come true.

Today, with digital technology, it would not cost that much money to make Tusk, but back then it was a triumph and I think he was happy to be in a position to make that triumph happen, even if it means being saddled with "the big machine."

So, I do imagine he wants to know how far BN would have gone, but unless they went nowhere and they gave up music and returned to northern California, I don't think he believes BN would have led to a future with Stevie. If they gave up music and started a family, yes, but if they continued on the BN path, they probably wouldn't have had the longevity as a pair of some kind that they have had in FM.

Stevie wrote Kind of Woman about his temptations on the road, but men would have hit on her too, the more they performed and I think monogamy would have always been a struggle.

Yes, everyone gets tamed and I think the life that Lindsey is living now is proof of that, as are the compromises that he makes musically which don't happen as grudgingly as they once did.

Michele

[brickney723]

Yes, I think he wonders more about Alabama than he does about him and Stevie, because he knows that he and Stevie had problems. He thinks they might have worked them out, but she says that being in FM probably made them last longer than they otherwise would have and I think he probably realizes that too.

She says he wouldn't have been so torn up about their break up if they hadn't been in the same band and she may know from experience. When she left him to move back up North and fell in love with someone, she doesn't say he was breaking her neck trying to get her back. Instead, I gather he was in Southern California, smoking and continuing to make music with Richard and figured Stevie would come back when she came back, wagging her tail behind her.

The fact that he knew she was tired of working as a waitress and cleaning lady, but he still wouldn't agree to play steak houses tells me that he wasn't really that interested in doing just anything to keep her. If they worked steakhouses, at least their careers would have bound him to her and kept her at his side for the money, despite domestic conflicts, but he didn't want it that way.

He was concerned with some sort of musical integrity without compromises even then. So, I think the idea of being in BN and making their own musical choices really appeals to him. On the other hand, I can't think of a lot of examples of duos that made it (of course there are Dave and Annie) and I think part of him wanted to "make it." I think he likes that he got to do Tusk. He likes that he got to spend 13 months and all of that money on Tusk. Even if he doesn't say he loved having money, the money that the first two albums brought him, I think he would admit loving to have the power that FM had to make Tusk come true.

Today, with digital technology, it would not cost that much money to make Tusk, but back then it was a triumph and I think he was happy to be in a position to make that triumph happen, even if it means being saddled with "the big machine."

So, I do imagine he wants to know how far BN would have gone, but unless they went nowhere and they gave up music and returned to northern California, I don't think he believes BN would have led to a future with Stevie. If they gave up music and started a family, yes, but if they continued on the BN path, they probably wouldn't have had the longevity as a pair of some kind that they have had in FM.

Stevie wrote Kind of Woman about his temptations on the road, but men would have hit on her too, the more they performed and I think monogamy would have always been a struggle.

Yes, everyone gets tamed and I think the life that Lindsey is living now is proof of that, as are the compromises that he makes musically which don't happen as grudgingly as they once did.

Michele

:shocked: Your post blew my mind. So, I wrote a book. ;)


Yes, I think he wonders more about Alabama than he does about him and Stevie, because he knows that he and Stevie had problems.

If you're just sharing your opinion here - mine is that I think he wonders far more about the relationship than any commercial success as a duo in Alabama or elsewhere, and that it doesn't change his feelings at all that he and Stevie had problems.

He thinks they might have worked them out, but she says that being in FM probably made them last longer than they otherwise would have and I think he probably realizes that too.

He doesn't realize that, even now. As late as a 2013 interview- he acknowledges they had problems, but states the "catalyst" for their break up was joining Fleetwood Mac. He cites three issues in particular as follows and quoted- "If we had hypothetically remained as BN, there was a parallel thing that we had, I think our set of reference points as BN was far more similar than it became in Fleetwood Mac, so who is to say that that wouldn't have translated to an easier road for us to stay together as a couple? Another thing is Christine McVie was already on the outs with John McVie. They were married, and if Stevie had any of those thoughts, having another woman to corroborate with, I think either enlarged the sense of that being the road or accelerated it, one of the two, and then the last thing was Stevie's persona on stage was latched onto, and she was in a sense 'called away' by a larger world and separated on her own from me. So you've got those three things."


She says he wouldn't have been so torn up about their break up if they hadn't been in the same band

Here's the exact quote: Nov 2003 Stevie Nicks: "But the day we joined Fleetwood Mac that all changed because we were famous and we were rich. The world really got in the way. I left him and he was torn up, but he wouldn't have been nearly so torn up if we hadn't been in a band together."

I get the feeling that Stevie quotes are not always accepted in regards to Lindsey's feelings, but since you quoted her, here are some other quotes from her on the topic of Lindsey's feelings through the years:

-In 1982 "Lindsey Buckingham wasn't happy with me because I'd broken up with him six years before."
-In 1987 "We are talking about a man who was in love with a woman and would just as soon as he had faded out and just been his old
lady or wife."
-In 1989 "They (Billy & Rick) come up to my house, and they work with me on music. And, um, you see that is something that Lindsey and I never did, because he need wanted to be that close to me…anymore. Because we'd always get back on the subject of why we broke up 12 years ago."
-In 1990 "When he and I split up in the beginning, Lindsey was never quite able to understand what had happened to us, and that in itself had to make day to day living very difficult for him, and it did for me."
In 1994 "He feels I broke up our team. So, for that, in his mind, I should be tortured for days and then killed."
In 1997 RS article- When Nicks wrote a song, she'd bring it to him, and he'd ask, "Who is that about?" "You don't really want to know," she would say. "So I'm not going to tell you. It's just about nothing." "That's where the double-edged sword came, "Nicks says, "whether he wanted to help me or not: 'So, you don't want to be my wife, my girlfriend, but you want me to do all that magic stuff on your songs. Is there anything else that you want, just, like, in my spare time?'"
In 1997 "Lindsey didn't want this breakup. He didn't want to not be with me. He and, he and I were really, you know, we'd been together for a long time, many, many, many years. We definitely felt married."
In 1998 "Buckinghamnicks had to bite the bullet for Fleetwood Mac, that was a choice. We'll never quite know exactly what would have happened if we had gone the other way. And of course, that's the thing that Lindsey gets the most upset about in his heart sometimes- he wonders what would have happened if it had just been the two of us. Which is not to say we don't love Fleetwood Mac, we do. But it would have been a whole other life. Destiny would have just knocked it a whole other way."
In 2001- You know, it was very difficult for Lindsey and I. And it never got better, really. It’s better now because Lindsey is married. And he loves his wife, and I think she’s great too. And he has a little six...seven month old baby girl named LeeLee, and a little boy named Will, who’s four. And they are precious, you know... Lindsey has a life now. So now Lindsey and I can really be friends. Because now we’re not thinking in the back of our mind that we’ll ever go back together. That allows us to be free. So now with his new relationship that’s really great for me, because it allows me to be his friend, and hang out with him and see him.
In 2013- "Lindsey would say sometimes 'I don't care how much money we made or how famous we were. All Fleetwood Mac did was break us up and that was the thing I held most dear.'"

Lindsey just repeats himself, but here's a somewhat varied sample of what he has said through the years:

1982-Having gotten through "years of pain," Lindsey says he and Stevie are able to maintain a stable working relationship.

1987- “I think the real need to do a record 5 years after the last one came from…when we did the Mirage album and tour, a lot of things had been left hanging out on a limb – emotional things and even financial things. This album was a way to bring it back together. I think this album was a very healthy experience. What Rumours was for pain, this album was for healing.” (Okay, this is indirect, but you know the emotional things left hanging were between him & Stevie. Still dying to know what happened during the Mirage tour!)

1987- "In the past," he says, "what I've done is given over the commercial side of Fleetwood Mac, and tried to make, hopefully, more artistic statements on solo records," And how would he describe those statements? "Ah, just lust, longing, loneliness," he answers with a subtle grin. "Same old thing you always hear from me."

1992: Sardonic World recited on Out of the Cradle Tour- "The world was calling you away and your leaving was just a way of staying with what you'd come to say. This pain was a poem, slowly written, torn from the book and cast into a corner in the attic, where no one could look this rage for all to see, caught fire and burned all around me till there was nothing left to burn. Now I stand alone in these attic bones and re-read that poem, all yellowed with age, tears heal such as healing is so I cast that page into the ashes and there is no blame, only shades of regret, and those too will fade... as the world calls me away."

1992-"'Tango' was one of the toughest things I've ever been involved with. I probably saw Stevie 10 days during the whole project, which got me to thinking about the fracturing that had taken place within the band. It was a bit upsetting to me."

1997- "We looked back on the success of the 'Fleetwood Mac' album, and, under most circumstances, most couples would have just said, 'Later,' " Buckingham said. "But this thing had become such a large thing, had taken on such a life of its own, that I had to go through this exercise in denial in terms of not really being over Stevie and having to do for her everyday and work for her everyday. That went on for years."

1997- "There was never a point where there wasn't this underpinning of psychological torment and musical soap opera." Success only made it worse, because the momentum of the band's ascent forced the five of them to work together despite their personal problems. "Those years were very complex, in [terms of] fielding what was thrown at us and in dealing with my own emotions," says Buckingham. "Really, some of my issues with Stevie didn't get sorted out until I had left the band. And you think, 'Well, jeez, that was, what, '77? And you left in '87? Get on with it, buddy. But usually, when you break up with someone, you don't have to see them five, six days a week and work with them for the next 10 years."

1997-In the 12 years I was involved in the band, there was so much agendizing and baggage and whatever was going on behind the scenes with the couples, it was very difficult to appreciate all that. It was all masked by a certain level of pain. Various levels of pain, quite a bit at times. And it was always a lesson in denial. You had to cram all your feelings here and get on with your creative thing here."

1998- "When I left in 1987 there was a lot of stuff still unresolved between Stevie and me," says Buckingham candidly. "That sounds strange when we had split up ten years earlier but most couples in that position don't carry on seeing each other all the time. Being in a band is almost like living with someone."

2001- "Once you feel someone moving away, your tendency is to try to grab at it.. for awhile and that only makes it even worse."

2003-“Stevie and I could never quite find each other after Tusk. You have to understand that this is someone I met when I was 16. I was completely devastated when she took off. And yet, trying to rise above that professionally, I produced hits for her, I had to do a lot of things for her that I really didn’t want to do."

2003- re 1987 band departure- "I needed to get some separation from Stevie especially, because I don't think I'd ever quite gotten closure on our relationship," he said. "I needed to get on with the next phase of my creative growth and my emotional growth.” "When you break up with someone and then for the next 10 years you have to be around them and do for them and watch them move away from you, it's not easy."

2003- “That was another reason I left, to finally get closure on Stevie. I had been technically apart from her for 10 years but I was seeing her every day.”

2003- Re: Out of the Cradle: "The whole tenure in Fleetwood Mac was difficult. It was complicated, to say the least. The last few years were the most difficult. Everyone was pretty much at their worst, I would say. What became important was reorienting myself and finally getting some closure on Stevie after having to be around her all those years, then putting something together with people I hadn't known, really, and seeing myself in a different light through their eyes."

2006-"That was a hard thing for me, to be able to go in everyday as a producer, and draft songs for Stevie, basically make hits for Stevie, that were allowing her to move even farther away. It was a tough emotional challenge."

2007-"It was very painful. Working with someone that I was still in love with, who was, didn’t want to be with me and yet me having to do the work for her, having to produce hits for her, having to see her everyday, not being allowed the necessity- I won’t say the luxury- it is a necessity- of of of physical distance in order to get closure. Um, and the the compartmentalizing of emotions that had to follow in that situation.”

2007- It's been 30 years since Fleetwood Mac had astounding success with the album "Rumours." Lindsey Buckingham, the creative force behind much of that record, is only just now starting to process the after-effects of being in the biggest band in the world as his own world was falling apart.

"There was a long period of time in the post-Fleetwood Mac environment where I wasn't sure what that all meant, why we went through that exercise," Buckingham said by phone last week. Sure, the band members made lots of money, but they paid a price. "Everyone was damaged," Buckingham said. "Emotionally speaking I was completely remote. There was this sense of alienation that existed. Your comfort area was your work."
2007 "Stevie left me at a time where we'd already had a successful album and knew we had to follow through on our 'destiny' or whatever you want to call it. Usually, you break up, you don't see your ex any more. That's the way you get closure – not having to produce hits for them so they can get even farther away from you. It was not good.”

2008 "There was a long period of time, where because Fleetwood Mac had been such a difficult emotional road, where I think the combination of the kind of success and maybe the lack of closure with people in the band, I kind of submerged myself from the world at large."

A couple thrown in from Christine McVie on Lindsey's 1987 departure:

1987 Christine McVie on Lindsey’s departure: “I’ve got to say though, and Stevie would tell you this as well, that it’s largely friction between those two that has been a real problem.”

1987-Christine McVie “The dust hasn’t really settled yet,” says McVie, who has always “gotten along very well” with Buckingham. “But there are no axes to grind,” she adds. Asked to comment further on specific reasons for the split, rumored to run deeper than Buckingham’s decision not to tour, she says, “To be honest, it’s personal and private.” If there were no problems between McVie and Buckingham, where was the rub? “Well, take three guesses and you’ll probably be right,” she says.


Mick on Lindsey's 1987 departure:

Fleetwood- When Lindsey left , I was so pissed off. I thought, 'How could he do that?' He was having a breakdown - or at least thinking, 'I can't do this any more.'

Mick 2013- Buckingham, Mick says, emotionally invested too much in her when she had made it clear the relationship was over. However, to a great extent, those wounds largely healed over when Buckingham left the band for a decade from 1987.


When she left him to move back up North and fell in love with someone, she doesn't say he was breaking her neck trying to get her back.

No, I can't find a quote from Stevie saying this either, but… I can't find a quote from her saying that he didn't break his neck trying to get her back either. Does her not ever speaking about it publicly mean that it wasn't so? She indicates there was a lot of crazy and creepy things that happened post FM breakup- but she is not willing to elaborate…...

Instead, I gather he was in Southern California, smoking and continuing to make music with Richard and figured Stevie would come back when she came back, wagging her tail behind her.

Is this just an opinion? Because I can't find the source for this. My opinion is that he was probably devastated. The fact that he took her back even after she left him for someone else would indicate that.

The fact that he knew she was tired of working as a waitress and cleaning lady, but he still wouldn't agree to play steak houses tells me that he wasn't really that interested in doing just anything to keep her. If they worked steakhouses, at least their careers would have bound him to her and kept her at his side for the money, despite domestic conflicts, but he didn't want it that way.

Really? Couples disagree constantly. Are you saying that if I don't let my husband make 100% of the big decisions we disagree on that I'm not interested in keeping him, and that I must not love him or care if he leaves me? Because I've read nothing to indicate that Stevie issued an ultimatum on this or that that was a deal-breaker for their relationship. Clue me in if I'm wrong.

He was concerned with some sort of musical integrity without compromises even then. So, I think the idea of being in BN and making their own musical choices really appeals to him. On the other hand, I can't think of a lot of examples of duos that made it (of course there are Dave and Annie) and I think part of him wanted to "make it." I think he likes that he got to do Tusk. He likes that he got to spend 13 months and all of that money on Tusk. Even if he doesn't say he loved having money, the money that the first two albums brought him, I think he would admit loving to have the power that FM had to make Tusk come true.

I can agree with this opinion, but my opinion is that his relationship with Stevie mattered more to him than any of this.

Today, with digital technology, it would not cost that much money to make Tusk, but back then it was a triumph and I think he was happy to be in a position to make that triumph happen, even if it means being saddled with "the big machine."

Sure, I suppose.

So, I do imagine he wants to know how far BN would have gone, but unless they went nowhere and they gave up music and returned to northern California, I don't think he believes BN would have led to a future with Stevie. If they gave up music and started a family, yes, but if they continued on the BN path, they probably wouldn't have had the longevity as a pair of some kind that they have had in FM.

He states the exact opposite of this sentiment in a 2013 Sound Opinions interview. "If we had hypothetically remained as BN, there was a parallel thing that we had, our set of reference points as BN was far more similar than it became in Fleetwood Mac, therefore who is to say that that would not have translated to an easier road for us to stay together as a couple?"

Stevie wrote Kind of Woman about his temptations on the road, but men would have hit on her too, the more they performed and I think monogamy would have always been a struggle.

Well.. my husband is very good looking and travels on business, the thought crosses my mind. But what does this prove? What does it say about Lindsey's feelings for Stevie at that time? Does her worrying that he might stray in the early 70's mean that he didn't really love her? Her insecurities didn't have anything to do with his actual level of commitment. Also, if you are in love with someone, it doesn't matter if they are good looking and might stray- it doesn't make you love them less. Neither does them getting strung out on drugs, or getting fat, for example. Being in love (having a real, true love for another person) is an incredibly powerful thing- maybe the most powerful force in the world- no? It's not easily dislodged.

Speaking of Stevie's lyrics and this topic- I'm reminded of [I]In the Still of the Night from 198?- "Still the same old story, what price glory?" Yep, I think Lindsey was having the whole FM broke up us discussion with Stevie right from the very beginning.


Yes, everyone gets tamed and I think the life that Lindsey is living now is proof of that, as are the compromises that he makes musically which don't happen as grudgingly as they once did.

I hope he's happy, he deserves it.

[singertobe]

Second Dublin show. On the 21st of September. Can't grab the clip right now, sorry.

S: Yes! Please! Jump in!
L: Say something. Let's see. *pause* Sure was hot today. I took a walk; I had to put a T-shirt on
S: And that is outrageous!



Yep, agreed on that. I try and use the terms 'I think' and 'in my opinion' exactly for that reason. Some things are subjective. See, I would think the ramble would have more positives than drawbacks for you - increases the amount of time Lindsey's on stage, increases the amount he says, and increases the improvised chat and actions (such as driving a car) from him... Plus, you get to enjoy Lindsey bowing and preening as he gets called gorgeous or sexy or smokin' hot. :D And you're quite right, my preferences do fit rather well in this thread. SHOCKING NEWS.



Ah, fair enough. It just seems quite an illogical way to look at the speech - I don't understand being resentful of it taking up time for two songs that wouldn't be added to the set even if the speech wasn't there... Ah, feel free to express whatever you want; doesn't bother me. Opinion is opinion, lol. Even if it's wrong... ;)



Nah, he didn't say that - just expressed mock frustration at never being able to win. Definitely one of my favourite Without You exchanges though, what with Stevie actually having had prepared a long list of the ways she cared for and loved Lindsey. Wouldn't want the audience to think it was one-sided, lol.

S: You're right. They needed a smokin' hot, fantastic lead guitarist. Ta da! And I magically pulled him out of my pocket. And I said, "Well, that's true." And so the whole story wraps around to this - and if Lindsey wants to speak, he will - I like to tell this story because I really do want to- He's backing away! He's backing away. I like to say thank you, Lindsey, for telling Mick when he called and asked you to join Fleetwood Mac - thank you for saying whatever it is that you said. Which, would you like to step up to the mic and finish the story? Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Lindsey Buckingham.

L: Me? You want me to talk?

S: Yeah. I'd like you to say something.

L: *pondering* Say something

S: Nice. *laughs*

L: That's very difficult for me. *S laughs* Right? *L laughs* *clears throat* Okay, well, let's see. Yes, it's true, it's absolutely true. Mick had heard a song of ours. And their guitarist left and I got a phone call. I did not, I'd only met Mick once very briefly. And he said, "Lindsey, it's Mick Fleetwood."
"Hi, Mick."
"Lindsey, would you like to join Fleetwood Mac?"
And, of course, what did I say? What did I say? I said, "If you're going to take me, Mick, you gotta take my girlfriend too!!!"
And that, Stevie, *voice gets deeper* baby, that is loooooove.

S: Can I just add, in Stuttgart, to that little story since you do like to throw that in, that for five years previous to that I washed your jeans, sewed moons and stars on them, fringed them, ironed your T-shirts-

L: This is a new, uh-

S: made your house beautiful, cooked dinner, cleaned the house, was a waitress AND a cleaning lady, and also *voice gets softer* loved you.

L: That's right.

S: So, it wasn't just a one-sided deal.

L: Did I say it was?

S: Nooooo, but it kinda comes across like thaaat... We're letting you in to the seriousness of this whole thing.

L: So, all this time-

S: I don't think they really want to come in here.

L: All this time, I've been saying "that's love, baby" you've been going "*sniffs* Hmph".

S: Kind of. *laughs*

L: I can't win! Geez! I did. I loved you with all my heart-

S: I know.

L: -didn't I?

S: Yes, you did.

L: And you loved me too.

S: And I did. And that's why we went together into Fleetwood Mac.

L: That's right.


Does anyone have footage of this particular show?;)

[nicole21290]

[/B]
Does anyone have footage of this particular show?;)

Unfortunately not, so far as I know! I wish someone did because I'd die to see their expressions during these exchanges, lol. We do have audio, however, for which I'm VERY grateful because a lot of the reason this is one of my favourite Without You speeches is because of the tone with which they speak, to be honest.

Link to download it here: http://buckinghamnicks-ff.tumblr.com/post/64389119888/without-you-intro-mp3

[singertobe]

Unfortunately not, so far as I know! I wish someone did because I'd die to see their expressions during these exchanges, lol. We do have audio, however, for which I'm VERY grateful because a lot of the reason this is one of my favourite Without You speeches is because of the tone with which they speak, to be honest.

Link to download it here: http://buckinghamnicks-ff.tumblr.com/post/64389119888/without-you-intro-mp3

Thanks!:D
Are you guys sure it was September 21? I typed that in the youtube search engine and got a completely different intro:confused:

[michelej1]

:shocked: Your post blew my mind. So, I wrote a book. ;)

But I've already read that book!


If you're just sharing your opinion here - mine is that I think he wonders far more about the relationship than any commercial success as a duo in Alabama or elsewhere, and that it doesn't change his feelings at all that he and Stevie had problems.

I think he knows what the outcome of their relationship would have been already. What they have as members of FM with a 45 year history is probably more than they would have had as a couple. I'm not saying that he doesn't value his relationship with Stevie. Clearly he does.. But it was a volatile relationship. They were excellent lovers, as he said, but had little else in common save for the music. Never really friends.

He wrote GYOW before the entered FM and he says he wrote it because he and Stevie were crumbling. He said he's sure he was at some Holiday Inn and he just wrote the song because it was very autobiographical, from his perspective. So, I don't think he wonders how they would have ended up. I think he wonders how their act would have ended up.

No the fact that they had problems didn't make him love her any less, but it sure makes this idea that they would have lived happily ever after a lot less likely. Almost as soon as he met Mick, he thought there was some connection between Mick and Stevie and said as much to Mick. Even if she and Mick didn't get together for a couple of years later, he saw it from the start. It doesn't really sound like he thought that he and Stevie were on a permanent road, when the relationship could be so easily sidetracked.

Maybe they would have, IF they gave up the dream of music. But as long as their was going to be a musical career, there were going to be problems.



He thinks they might have worked them out, but she says that being in FM probably made them last longer than they otherwise would have and I think he probably realizes that too.


:I get the feeling that Stevie quotes are not always accepted in regards to Lindsey's feelings,

No, they really aren't accepted as anything more than Stevie quotes, by me and I don't think her opinion of what Lindsey's opinion of her is is very reliable.

On the other hand, it seems that whenever Lindsey says something, his comments are discounted like he's trying to hide his true feelings behind a brave front when, the reality is, he has already been pretty blunt about his feelings, even the love and the pain. I don't think he's stoic at all. I just think he's really just not the storybook hopeless romantic that some people like to daydream he is.

[/QUOTE];1120842] No, I can't find a quote from Stevie saying this either, but… I can't find a quote from her saying that he didn't break his neck trying to get her back either.[/QUOTE]

She said she ran out of money and had to eat humble pie. To me having to eat humble pie doesn't indicate that he was falling all over himself to have her back in his life. I'm sure he was glad to have her, but he's never really been the, "I'd do anything to keep you" kind of guy. He seems to have been unable and unwilling to change. As was she.

[/QUOTE];1120842] Really? Couples disagree constantly. Are you saying that if I don't let my husband make 100% of the big decisions we disagree on that I'm not interested in keeping him, and that I must not love him or care if he leaves me? [/QUOTE]

Having an income that puts food on the table is a little more than a difference of opinion. Some relationship stances are deal breakers. And clearly that was going to be deal breaker for Stevie, who says she had promised her dad that she would go back to school, if something didn't turn up for them.

Yes, he valued Stevie, but I think what he creates is a love that's even greater to him than Stevie and Stevie seemed to think that too, when all he wanted to do was fall asleep with the guitar and she seemed to feel that she was second fiddle.

I don't doubt that Lindsey loves Stevie. I admire his great love for her. But I don't think she's his greatest love.

I can agree with this opinion, but my opinion is that his relationship with Stevie mattered more to him than any of this.

Yes, I know that's your opinion. I don't think the last 45 years bear that out. And comments that you use to signify some great love that he'd sacrifice absolutely everything for say something quite different to me.

I think the biggest sacrifice he made for Stevie was joining FM. And I certainly think he'd do it again. Maybe as much for her as for any other reason, in the end.

But I'm sure he wonders what would have happened after Alabama, if Mick had called them 6 months later than he did.


Michele

[MoonSister75]

Being in love (having a real, true love for another person) is an incredibly powerful thing- maybe the most powerful force in the world- no? It's not easily dislodged.



I don't doubt that Lindsey loves Stevie. I admire his great love for her. But I don't think she's his greatest love.

Michele

These two have either been in a relationship, or working together on and off since their late teens. Writing love songs, break up songs, angry songs and healing songs. There is so much emotional history there, and what they have been through in the past 45years has created a very powerful force. Just because they can not (and probably should not) be a couple or live together, doesn't mean they can not have love for each other. They are still in some kind of relationship (although one based on music). It may not be a conventional relationship, buts its still romantic :]

I don't think you can ever fully separate Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks "There’s nothing going on between you and me except that there will always be something going on between you and me. Until the day we die"

Just my thoughts on this enduring topic.... ;):)

[nicole21290]

Thanks!:D
Are you guys sure it was September 21? I typed that in the youtube search engine and got a completely different intro:confused:

Ha, no, they ARE different. I was talking about two separate Without You introductions in my reply to Elle. The second Dublin show was the one with the T-shirt mention and that occurred on the 21st. The one I just transcribed and linked to was from Stuttgart much closer to the end of the tour on October the 14th. :)

[nicole21290]

It doesn't really sound like he thought that he and Stevie were on a permanent road, when the relationship could be so easily sidetracked.

He's considered the possibility at least, thought MAYBE, even if he doesn't go the whole hog and doesn't think they probably would've made it personally AND professionally as Stevie has said he's said.

We had a lot of problems by the time we joined, as did John and Chris. So it was one of the things that Stevie and Chris had in common. What drew them together was the need to commiserate. Without that catalyst, maybe it would have been drawn out longer. Or maybe we would have worked it out.
(1997)

And not this specifically but I like the sentiment of this quote as well:
It was never great to be poor, no. But it was maybe great to have a less complicated life, and less... well, less pressure and uh... a less number of walls that can get between any two people at this point. (1982)

I just find it interesting that both Lindsey and Stevie have, when asked about whether they made the right decision to join FM, regret it, etc, sometimes almost avoid the question and say things along the lines of 'well, I'm happy now and fate and destiny and it all worked out okay' as in the quotes of Lindsey's I posted earlier and this:

IN: Could it be said that, if it wasn’t for Fleetwood Mac, you guys might never have broken up?
SN: It’s possible that we might’ve stayed together.
IN: Gotten married?
SN: Very possible.
IN: Had kids?
SN: Had kids. But, you know, destiny intervenes.
IN: Do you ever wish that’s what happened?
SN: No, because I never go against destiny.

When your reason for saying ‘no, I never wished that happened’ is that you never go against destiny (rather than ‘it would never have worked’, ‘we’re incompatible’, ‘i don’t/didn’t love him’, ‘i like how my life turned out much better’), consider me not entirely convinced of that ‘no’ being what you always think.

-

"In your version of Beauty and the Beast, Beauty finally understands that there are difficult choices to make in this world. Knowing her fate, if you were her, what would your decision have been?"

"I would have chosen the Beast," she says softly. "Absolutely."

[MoonSister75]

I just find it interesting that both Lindsey and Stevie have, when asked about whether they made the right decision to join FM, regret it, etc, sometimes almost avoid the question and say things along the lines of 'well, I'm happy now and fate and destiny and it all worked out okay' as in the quotes of Lindsey's I posted earlier and this:

IN: Could it be said that, if it wasn’t for Fleetwood Mac, you guys might never have broken up?
SN: It’s possible that we might’ve stayed together.
IN: Gotten married?
SN: Very possible.
IN: Had kids?
SN: Had kids. But, you know, destiny intervenes.
IN: Do you ever wish that’s what happened?
SN: No, because I never go against destiny.

When your reason for saying ‘no, I never wished that happened’ is that you never go against destiny (rather than ‘it would never have worked’, ‘we’re incompatible’, ‘i don’t/didn’t love him’, ‘i like how my life turned out much better’), consider me not entirely convinced of that ‘no’ being what you always think.


Yes some couples when they split up really do split up physically, mentally, emotionally. They are relieved its over, and move on knowing that the relationship didn't have a future.

Stevie and Lindsey have never fully done this. They are still working together, talking about each other and writing songs about each other. They still have many strings tied to each other.

I think they knew it had to end, but there was (is?) still a strong attraction - Soulmates....

I like Lindsey's very romantic description in Sad Angel "We fall to earth together...."

[nicole21290]

I like Lindsey's very romantic description in Sad Angel "We fall to earth together...."

I like Lindsey's very emotional declaration in It Takes Time: "It was all for you."

Even more than that, I like Lindsey's very 'romantic' question in Miss Fantasy: "Would you still love to linger up against a wall?"

Such a charmer. ;)

[MoonSister75]

I like Lindsey's very emotional declaration in It Takes Time: "It was all for you."

Even more than that, I like Lindsey's very 'romantic' question in Miss Fantasy: "Would you still love to linger up against a wall?"

Such a charmer. ;)

Yes what a charmer :laugh: Its a bit like "lay me down in the tall grass and let me do my stuff.."

You know, I didn't really like "It Takes Time" at first, it seemed a bit boring. Then I listened to it around the time of the Vegas show, when both Stevie and Lindsey cried to Say Goodbye, and it sounded wonderful, perfect, beautiful!.....and yes, I cried..... :o

[brickney723]

But I've already read that book!

Yes, I know you have! And while I've always found it extraordinary (dumbfounding, to be honest) that two people can read the same exact "book" or quotes as it were, and come to such completely different conclusions, I know it's common. Even less literal things than written or spoken language (although the ability to decipher nuance is critical to a comprehensive understanding of that as well) like feeling chemistry or reading social cues- the variation in experience boggles my mind.. while to most a thing may be glaringly obvious, a few simply won't see it. And then there's the example of experience- a person who has never known true, passionate love, and the resultant earth-shattering loss once it's gone, will not "see" the true nature of the agony of that in a person in the same way as somebody who has intimate knowledge of that emotional state- of course it would be incomprehensible to them. It kind of reminds me of Stevie Nicks' recent comments on the movie Anna Karenina.

So, having said that, I'm well aware that neither of us will never change anyone's mind. Reading through the archives of this board is a stark reminder of that.. Cognitive dissonance is on full display as that thing that causes opinions to remain firmly fixed regardless of a bombardment of any and all evidence to the contrary. Much like politics, really. So, I just kind of wanted all that documentation- transcriptions from audio and print interviews from the actual people involved, out there- so people who want to learn more can look at the actual, real information and not just the display of our own respective immovable bias.

[brickney723]

I like Lindsey's very emotional declaration in It Takes Time: "It was all for you."

Even more than that, I like Lindsey's very 'romantic' question in Miss Fantasy: "Would you still love to linger up against a wall?"

Such a charmer. ;)

Coming to you direct from the horse's mouth. ;)

[brickney723]

I like Lindsey's very romantic description in Sad Angel "We fall to earth together...."

And then… "the crowd calling out for more." I know he lifted that from Whiter Shade of Pale, he loves that song and I'm sure it reminds him of the band.

[michelej1]

These two have either been in a relationship, or working together on and off since their late teens. Writing love songs, break up songs, angry songs and healing songs. There is so much emotional history there, and what they have been through in the past 45years has created a very powerful force. Just because they can not (and probably should not) be a couple or live together, doesn't mean they can not have love for each other. They are still in some kind of relationship (although one based on music). It may not be a conventional relationship, buts its still romantic :]



I agree with you and I think there is beauty in the long, fabled and invincible nature of the love they do have. When Stevie told Courtney that Lindsey was her musical love, I think she was accurate. I think the music has given them a lasting relationship that would have ended a long time ago, had they not been in this band together. If BN had been a hit, then that music would have kept them together, but I don't know if BN would have had the staying power that FM has had. But if there was no music, then I don't think there would have been any couple for very long. 1975 could have been the end of something instead of the beginning.

But this musical love, this level of communication, I guess it's frustrating at times, because if there's no music, then how else can you relate? I think that with Stevie and Lindsey and the FM members in general, you have this great love, but no real way of expressing it, except when you're creating music. And they feel "I've shared so much with this person, how is it that we can have nothing to talk about, if it's not a demo?"

So, the connection may seem attenuated at times because it's not based on the traditional exchanges that most relationships are, but in reality, it's something that has endured longer than many romantic loves. Longer than the love they had outside of the music, when they were living together. Because I don't think that was taking them very far. But because of FM, I think it has evolved into something bigger. Sex and passion are not more. They're just different. I think what they do have is more.

In fact, I think that's what Lindsey has wanted to preserve since the SYW album started. It's like, I've known her since I was 16, we should be able to get along. And that he's wanted the need to argue with and hurt each other with words to finally stop. Just because this is not the person you're sleeping with or could have built a home and a family with does not mean they're not your partner. And it's possible to have that partnership and rejoice in it and have outgrown the yearning for something else.

Michele

[michelej1]

Even less literal things than written or spoken language (although the ability to decipher nuance is critical to a comprehensive understanding of that as well) like feeling chemistry or reading social cues- the variation in experience boggles my mind.. while to most a thing may be glaringly obvious, a few simply won't see it.

And I like nuance in all relationships, not just romantic ones. I'm fascinated by all couples. It doesn't matter to me whether it's Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin or Vivian Leigh and Laurence Olivier or fictional couples like Mulder and Scully. The way they support each other or betray each other and hurt and make up and forgive or don't forgive always touches me and makes me want to delve deeper.

And that's how I would mark my shows starting with The Dance. I wouldn't come home and say, "that show had a very great Rhiannon." I'd rate the show on who touched whom and when and how and how long. Yes, I'd rate it on the fire of Silver Springs -- which was much better on tour than it was on the DVD. I'd notice how far towards Stevie would walk each night and how far she'd retreat, further and further as the tour progressed, until she was almost knocking John over. That was a high point. But also the nature of canoodling between Lindsey and Christine was a highlight during Stand Back for me too. So much so that I love Stand Back but don't think I ever looked at Stevie during that number, because I was looking at Chris and Lindsey.

The last bows, sometimes Christine would walk across the stage directly into Lindsey's arms and I loved it. But in the end that stopped and I got sort of worried. And how would Stevie and Lindsey bow that night, would he have the arch of her neck securely ensconced in his elbow as they walked off the stage or would he run off and leave, so that Mick could walk her off. Such was my tour checklist from The Dance and every tour since then.

I obsess over these things. That's why the entire FM group fascinates me, not just Stevie and Lindsey. And I think it's telling that Lindsey has said the same things about John and Chris and John and Mick that he has said about he and Stevie, because these relationship dynamics are really universal ones.

And as far as the quotes go, the thing is you can always select the quotes you want. There are dozens more that would lead to an entirely opposite conclusion, so I don't think they leave an objective record for anyone to follow. Just the opposite.

I think anyone truly interested will have to read everything that's out there and come to their own conclusion. Michele

[brickney723]

And as far as the quotes go, the thing is you can always select the quotes you want. There are dozens more that would lead to an entirely opposite conclusion, so I don't think they leave an objective record for anyone to follow. Just the opposite.

I think anyone truly interested will have to read everything that's out there and come to their own conclusion. Michele

Oh yes, I know I said I'm not open-minded, but seriously… please, please, please give me those quotes in opposition! And I'll read everything surrounding them. I have read everything, as far as I know, but it's possible I've missed something! It's so much better than the I think… I gather… which of course, we all do. But I really don't have a dog in the fight- I don't care at all if he loved her or to what extent, or what he feels now, etc.. it's just the evidence has been soooo overwhelming… and so much so that it's like one of the greatest love stories of all time. And also the music- how can you understand the music if you don't understand the heart, you know? So, I want to know everything. Not just what fits into where all the evidence has led me so far. I have no ego, and I have no problem being proven wrong- with evidence. Basically, with these guys we've got: quotes, music lyrics, body language to go by- and that's about it. But I feel I read Lindsey sooo easily- it's like his heart is an open book, I understand not everyone sees what I see. I can tell so much just by looking at him- and well, you know what I've seen so far.

[michelej1]

He's considered the possibility at least, thought MAYBE, even if he doesn't go the whole hog and doesn't think they probably would've made it personally AND professionally as Stevie has said he's said.

But I don't think you can separate personal from professional, because one pulls apart the other. He could have made money touring. Once Waddy got him in, he could have always found work, but I think he knows his relationship with Stevie wasn't going to last if he kept doing that, leaving her at home while he was on the road. He needed to find a way to make money that would include her. That's why I think he wonders if BN had a brighter future.

When your reason for saying ‘no, I never wished that happened’ is that you never go against destiny (rather than ‘it would never have worked’, ‘we’re incompatible’, ‘i don’t/didn’t love him’, ‘i like how my life turned out much better’), consider me not entirely convinced of that ‘no’ being what you always think.

I don't think "no" is what she always thinks. She's expressly said as much. Oh Stevie you made a terrible mistake.

Michele

[michelej1]

Oh yes, I know I said I'm not open-minded, but seriously… please, please, please give me those quotes in opposition! And I'll read everything surrounding them. I have read everything, as far as I know, but it's possible I've missed something! It's so much better than the I think… I gather… which of course, we all do. But I really don't have a dog in the fight-

See, I don't believe that you don't have a dog. And I can understand you to an extent. I ship, most especially in the nineties and then when TISL and UTS were released, but I think the bigger picture changes the small one.

Michele

[brickney723]

See, I don't believe that you don't have a dog. And I can understand you to an extent. I ship, most especially in the nineties and then when TISL and UTS were released, but I think the bigger picture changes the small one.

Michele

I don't! I'm all about truth! I mean, I can't say it isn't fascinating- and therefore not enjoyable- because it is! But it's only because I've been led to this point by facts. Prove me wrong- bring it! Seriously! :wavy:

And let me just edit this to say- the timeline I'm always thinking about in terms of what a great tragic romantic thing it really was is the 1977-1987 years- because I feel I have the most information from that time- maybe because they've been more honest about things as the years have gone by- with time and distance. We certainly got more information from LB on his feelings from that time period as the years went by. Although you can see it in the lyrics and you can definitely hear it live back then.

[michelej1]

I don't! I'm all about truth! I mean, I can't say it isn't fascinating- and therefore not enjoyable- because it is! But it's only because I've been led to this point by facts. Prove me wrong-.

But I don't think you have facts. That's the point. Your "fact" is my fantasy.

Which is why we're going to disagree, no matter what.

Michele

[brickney723]

But I don't think you have facts. That's the point. Your "fact" is my fantasy.

Which is why we're going to disagree, no matter what.

Michele

Okay, so in my opinion, not having been in the room with these people, quotes from the actual parties involved is the closest any of us is ever going to get to facts. :shrug:

[brickney723]

Originally Posted by nicole21290 View Post
I like Lindsey's very emotional declaration in It Takes Time: "It was all for you."

^^ Like, am I tripping or did he actually say this? And if you say it's just my fantasy and it's not so, are you being honest?

I just like truth.

[michelej1]

Okay, so in my opinion, not having been in the room with these people, quotes from the actual parties involved is the closest any of us is ever going to get to facts. :shrug:

Quotes spun in a way that get you just where you want to be already are not facts. You likened this to politics and it is. People always twist anything to fit their political bias, even when a statement is just the opposite of their chosen agenda.

It's like the comment in Mick's book where he heard Stevie say, "you'll never love anyone but yourself."

To you that means that Lindsey told Stevie he loved her. Even though Mick never heard that part. You imply it from Stevie's response that Mick says he did hear. Good sleuthing on your part. So, this contributes to your notion that Lindsey never stopped loving Stevie. Fine, I don't think you stop loving people you've been through that much with anyway.

But you choose to ignore the fact that Stevie rejected the idea that he loved her and told him he would never love anyone but himself. He loved her, but she wasn't his top priority. She didn't feel loved. It seems to me that she always felt neglected and taken for granted. So, yes she has quotes in which she says he never stopped loving her, but she's also said that he hated her and just plain didn't like her. I don't think she's wrong either time. I think that both things are true and that things switch and flip many times, between two people.

You choose to focus on just one set of quotes and to explain away the other by saying, "Lindsey just wasn't being honest about his feelings." Or "he just loved her so much that he pushed her away, because it hurt not to have her." Which are great interpretations, but they aren't facts and every quote you get is going to fit into your set interpretation -- even when it doesn't on its face.

I was just reading Myrna Loy again after Shirley Temple's death and she was saying that people wondered why she and William Powell never got together romantically and she said that they were never at the same place at the same time. When she could have fallen for him, he was in love with Jean Harlow. When he was flirting with her, she was happily married. It reminded me of Stevie and Lindsey and you only want me when I get over you.

I think a lot about SnL and enjoy them very much as a couple. But I don't see them as you do.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by nicole21290 View Post
I like Lindsey's very emotional declaration in It Takes Time: "It was all for you."

^^ Like, am I tripping or did he actually say this? And if you say it's just my fantasy and it's not so, are you being honest?

I just like truth.

You just like your truth. The fact that your "facts" are song lyrics kind of proves my point.

I like the song lyrics too. Always have and I have always read Stevie and Lindsey song lyrics in relationship to one another. But I don't see lyrics as necessarily proving anything. First of all, people use artistic license in song lyrics. That's why Stevie says she left Lindsey, but Dreams seems to say the opposite: that he left her. You sprinkle in some real life, but ultimately you make a good song. Secondly, songs don't have to be about the type of love you're fantasizing about.

For instance, Stevie says maybe she worked so hard and so long just to watch you walk out that door and I really think it's the same message that was in Smile At You, written so much earlier. Go on, leave the key here. Save yourself. I think she actually thinks in a way that she has done all she has done just so Lindsey can have the family life he now has. The family life that doesn't include her. I think she thinks she saved him. By the same token, when he says "I did it all for you" he can very well mean it, but not in the "I did it all for you because I wish that we were married and had children of our own" sense.

Michele

[brickney723]

Oh my lord, I do not have the kind of time to continue on with this pissing contest. That is all.

[brickney723]

Quotes spun in a way that get you just where you want to be already are not facts. You likened this to politics and it is. People always twist anything to fit their political bias, even when a statement is just the opposite of their chosen agenda.

It's like the comment in Mick's book where he heard Stevie say, "you'll never love anyone but yourself."

To you that means that Lindsey told Stevie he loved her. Even though Mick never heard that part. You imply it from Stevie's response that Mick says he did hear. Good sleuthing on your part. So, this contributes to your notion that Lindsey never stopped loving Stevie. Fine, I don't think you stop loving people you've been through that much with anyway.

But you choose to ignore the fact that Stevie rejected the idea that he loved her and told him he would never love anyone but himself. He loved her, but she wasn't his top priority. She didn't feel loved. It seems to me that she always felt neglected and taken for granted. So, yes she has quotes in which she says he never stopped loving her, but she's also said that he hated her and just plain didn't like her. I don't think she's wrong either time. I think that both things are true and that things switch and flip many times, between two people.

You choose to focus on just one set of quotes and to explain away the other by saying, "Lindsey just wasn't being honest about his feelings." Or "he just loved her so much that he pushed her away, because it hurt not to have her." Which are great interpretations, but they aren't facts and every quote you get is going to fit into your set interpretation -- even when it doesn't on its face.

I was just reading Myrna Loy again after Shirley Temple's death and she was saying that people wondered why she and William Powell never got together romantically and she said that they were never at the same place at the same time. When she could have fallen for him, he was in love with Jean Harlow. When he was flirting with her, she was happily married. It reminded me of Stevie and Lindsey and you only want me when I get over you.

I think a lot about SnL and enjoy them very much as a couple. But I don't see them as you do.

Michele

Wait. I NEVER EVER said these things. This is wrong.

[elle]

Oh yes, I know I said I'm not open-minded, but seriously… please, please, please give me those quotes in opposition! And I'll read everything surrounding them.

I don't! I'm all about truth! I mean, I can't say it isn't fascinating- and therefore not enjoyable- because it is! But it's only because I've been led to this point by facts. Prove me wrong- bring it! Seriously! :wavy:

Oh my lord, I do not have the kind of time to continue on with this pissing contest. That is all.

:laugh: you either do or you don't. ;)

[brickney723]

:laugh: you either do or you don't. ;)

First of all, you're witty… really. You know what they say about those who get to try out feeling big & powerful behind the keyboard. :xoxo:

I never did get any real quotes, sadly. I suppose it's because…. she doesn't have any. She *did* quote me- only... they were made up quotes. So, it's too bad it's like this… there's probably not much point in discussing anything at all if people are on such a power trip that they can't even have an honest conversation. No wonder it's so freaking slow here.

[sodascouts]

Wow, some folks need to chill!

I've always thought that SnL are a fascinating couple and I think they do have a great "tragic romance" trajectory, especially Stevie since as far as we know she is alone and can't have Lindsey anymore except as a friend. Speculating about their feelings for each other is fun and I've certainly indulged myself on that end, eh? Heaven knows I have been given a hard time about it in the days of yore, which some of you may recall. ;)

The thing is, we can't know. We know what they say, but even that can be ambiguous or even contradictory. When something can't be proven, there will be varying opinions on it. As long as no one's a jerk about it, I don't see a problem.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by nicole21290 View Post
I like Lindsey's very emotional declaration in It Takes Time: "It was all for you."

^^ Like, am I tripping or did he actually say this? And if you say it's just my fantasy and it's not so, are you being honest?

I just like truth.

But be careful how you interpret this. It was all for her in a good way, but also in a bad way. He's talked about this. When love turns to hate, as it did off and on for both of them, you *don't* want the other person to succeed, you *don't* want the best for them... and you might even relish their missteps. Lindsey has been honest enough to say that a lot of times they were competitive with each other... he wanted his solo career to be "better" than hers, or whatever. They like to push each other's buttons. They can be mean to each other, and they have been. He's said in recent years sometimes the (career) things he's done were motivated by this need to compete with her. (If I had the time to dig it out I would). And she certainly had some degree of motivation in her solo career to prove that her music was *not* all due to his arranging and producing, that she could be successful without him. So while I think on some level each has always loved the other, they have also really wanted to "stick it to" the other (in the bad way lol). And he admits this now-- sometimes he pursued things just to "show her", whatever that meant at the time. I think the greatest growth for them both has been to let a lot of that go. To accept that they are good at different things and successful in different ways and they don't need to compete. They've loved each other but they have also had moments where each has wanted the other to fail or to hurt or whatever.

[bombaysaffires]

But you choose to ignore the fact that Stevie rejected the idea that he loved her and told him he would never love anyone but himself. He loved her, but she wasn't his top priority. She didn't feel loved. It seems to me that she always felt neglected and taken for granted. So, yes she has quotes in which she says he never stopped loving her, but she's also said that he hated her and just plain didn't like her. I don't think she's wrong either time. I think that both things are true and that things switch and flip many times, between two people.



Just saw this part Michele.. Totally agree.

I disagree with you on the lyrics to Dreams tho.. I think they *do* talk about her leaving him.
"You say women they will come and they will go
When the rain washes you clean you'll know"

To me her interpretation of it being hopeful and all that has been spin. To me hearing those lines it's always come across as .. oh, so you think women are interchangeable? That you can find another? Well, here's your chance, coz when the rain washes you clean (after I'm gone) you'll know that that is NOT how it goes.

But again, as this whole thread has pointed out, be it lyrics or interview quotes or whatever, you hear them/ filter them through your own filter and they mean one thing to you as the listener/reader and might mean something totally different to someone else. :shrug:

That's the beauty of it.

[michelej1]

I never did get any real quotes, sadly. I suppose it's because…. she doesn't have any. She *did* quote me- only... they were made up quotes. So, it's too bad it's like this… there's probably not much point in discussing anything at all if people are on such a power trip that they can't even have an honest conversation. No wonder it's so freaking slow here.

You didn't get any real quotes?? This is not the first time this subject has come up. There was a similar exchange about the whole Stevie and Lindsey thing not 6 weeks ago on The Ledge. Why should I trot out quotes for you when your view is so one-sided?

"Lindsey just plain doesn't like me." Details Magazine, 20 years ago.

"You don't want to sit in the same room, be on a plane after a show, with somebody who hates you. It was not fun." Rolling Stone magazine October 1997.

There's no dearth of quotes from Stevie saying that Lindsey didn't like her. You have presumably read the interviews. She said he doesn't even like the way she laughed.

Lindsey said, "And for Stevie, someone like Don Henley is good for her. It's strange, it's one thing to accept not being with someone and it's another to see them with someone else, especially someone like Don, right? A big star in another group. I could see it coming and I really thought it was going to bum me out, but it was really a good thing just to see her sitting with him. It actually made me happy."

And during the SYW tour when an interviewer asked if he got mad when Don sent Stevie flowers he said he wouldn't even remember something like that.

So, would you believe him or would you believe Stevie's comments about his jealousy over Henley? I don't have to ask.

And the thing is, you don't even realize or, at least, you don't acknowledge the strong bias. You don't realize that the way you slant quotes or the things you choose to believe and not to believe are subjective?

Over the years, Stevie has given a number of different explanations for who Blue Denim was about. I choose to believe the one that said it's about Lindsey, but I am fully aware that that's a choice on my part, because I could just as easily latch on to her quotes saying it's not about him and believe those.

I think they were romancing again during The Dance and that Kristen's pregnancy nipped that in the bud. I think SYW, TISL and UTS all tell the story of that event. I think the lyrics to those songs all support my theory, but I don't think those lyrics are proof of anything, not when I know that the lyrics themselves can be interpreted many different ways. I realize that my interpretation of those lyrics is dependent on my beliefs. I don't shove them at someone as concrete evidence that I'm right.

Lindsey said Come was about Anne Heche and people reject that idea because he's 'covering up' the fact that it's about Stevie. But I've read Anne Heche's comments about her delusions and mental breakdown. I've read about the period where she had an alter ego named Celestia and she thought she was God and so I clearly think of Anne Heche when I hear Come and Miranda, even though I realize that some people definitely think the "harmony" lyrics just have to be about Stevie.

There are enough contradictions out there that anyone can believe what they want to believe and there's no monopoly on "truth."

Michele

[michelej1]

I disagree with you on the lyrics to Dreams tho.. I think they *do* talk about her leaving him.
"You say women they will come and they will go
When the rain washes you clean you'll know"

To me her interpretation of it being hopeful and all that has been spin.

I agree that it's not a hopeful song at all. I think the heartbeat driving you mad as you remember what you had and what you lost is just as "bitter" as Go Your Own Way.

But I think the whole "you say you want your freedom" indicates it's a woman talking about a man who wants out of the relationship so that he can play the field and the whole "players only love you when they're playing" goes into that. It's like Silver Springs. That also sounds like the man left the woman. I think these songs are inspired by Stevie and Lindsey but not a literal reflection of what really transpired in their relationship.

Of course, I think the relationship had a lot of different breaks and endings, so it wasn't always the same person leaving.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

I agree that it's not a hopeful song at all. I think the heartbeat driving you mad as you remember what you had and what you lost is just as "bitter" as Go Your Own Way.

But I think the whole "you say you want your freedom" indicates it's a woman talking about a man who wants out of the relationship so that he can play the field and the whole "players only love you when they're playing" goes into that. It's like Silver Springs. That also sounds like the man left the woman. I think these songs are inspired by Stevie and Lindsey but not a literal reflection of what really transpired in their relationship.

Of course, I think the relationship had a lot of different breaks and endings, so it wasn't always the same person leaving.

Michele

Where are your quotes to back this up??


;)

[bombaysaffires]

I think they were romancing again during The Dance and that Kristen's pregnancy nipped that in the bud.


I think they were too, but... it's funny how we as fans see this. Kristen's pregnancy didn't just 'happen', Lindsey clearly wooed her and slept with her and *got* her pregnant... so... and this has just crystallized for me reading all these posts... what does that tell us about him? I don't get the sense he and Stevie were sleeping together necessarily, but on some level he was double-dipping here (emotionally or whatever). Very interesting... (said with my best Artie Johnson accent):shrug:

[michelej1]

I think they were too, but... it's funny how we as fans see this. Kristen's pregnancy didn't just 'happen', Lindsey clearly wooed her and slept with her and *got* her pregnant... so... and this has just crystallized for me reading all these posts... what does that tell us about him? I don't get the sense he and Stevie were sleeping together necessarily, but on some level he was double-dipping here (emotionally or whatever). Very interesting... (said with my best Artie Johnson accent):shrug:

I think he was and that Stevie felt a little betrayed, which is how I interpret both Thrown Down and Fall From Grace.

And I think that in a way they like the idea of romance as much as some of their fans do. They like the idea, but not the reality of it enough to commit to it. Monogamously.

Michele

[elle]

But be careful how you interpret this. It was all for her in a good way, but also in a bad way. He's talked about this. When love turns to hate, as it did off and on for both of them, you *don't* want the other person to succeed, you *don't* want the best for them... and you might even relish their missteps. Lindsey has been honest enough to say that a lot of times they were competitive with each other... he wanted his solo career to be "better" than hers, or whatever. They like to push each other's buttons. They can be mean to each other, and they have been. He's said in recent years sometimes the (career) things he's done were motivated by this need to compete with her. (If I had the time to dig it out I would). And she certainly had some degree of motivation in her solo career to prove that her music was *not* all due to his arranging and producing, that she could be successful without him. So while I think on some level each has always loved the other, they have also really wanted to "stick it to" the other (in the bad way lol). And he admits this now-- sometimes he pursued things just to "show her", whatever that meant at the time. I think the greatest growth for them both has been to let a lot of that go. To accept that they are good at different things and successful in different ways and they don't need to compete. They've loved each other but they have also had moments where each has wanted the other to fail or to hurt or whatever.

agree. i tried to say something similar in the past when interpretation of "it was all for you" was discussed, but i could never say it as eloquently. :nod:

Maybe I’ve wasted all this precious time
Trying to prove what is and isn’t mine
Wondering to myself if you knew
It was all for you

these lyrics, together with what you said above, his Tusk songs, his complaining about not being given enough credit (producer or whatever) for Rumours, and even her IYD doc where she makes a point how she can be in control in the studio, all seem to hark back to their competitiveness and proving something to each other (and the world).

[elle]

And I think that in a way they like the idea of romance as much as some of their fans do. They like the idea, but not the reality of it enough to commit to it. Monogamously.

Michele

well, it has to be kinda cool to always be mentioned as one of the greatest [tragic] couples of rock'n'roll.

[michelej1]

these lyrics, together with what you said above, his Tusk songs, his complaining about not being given enough credit (producer or whatever) for Rumours, and even her IYD doc where she makes a point how she can be in control in the studio, all seem to hark back to their competitiveness and proving something to each other (and the world).

Yes, even when he talked about them being excellent lovers, he mentioned the competitiveness and she always has too.

"Stevie and I, even when we were lovers, were never really best friends. We used to compete with each other back then. I mean we've always competed, probably ever since we started going together back in '71. There was always that tension there even though we were excellent lovers, we were competitors as well."

And that spirit of rivalry made the relationship more passionate, I'm sure. But probably didn't provide either with the comfort or support you want from the person you're going to spend your entire life with, off the stage.

Michele

[elle]

on the other hand, i do think the overall sentiment of It Takes Time is not focusing on this competitiveness but wanting to finally outgrow it, coming full circle (:D), basically what you said below:

In fact, I think that's what Lindsey has wanted to preserve since the SYW album started. It's like, I've known her since I was 16, we should be able to get along. And that he's wanted the need to argue with and hurt each other with words to finally stop. Just because this is not the person you're sleeping with or could have built a home and a family with does not mean they're not your partner. And it's possible to have that partnership and rejoice in it and have outgrown the yearning for something else.

[bombaysaffires]

on the other hand, i do think the overall sentiment of It Takes Time is not focusing on this competitiveness but wanting to finally outgrow it, coming full circle (:D),

yep, totally agree. now that he's got a full personal life that's not connected to the band, or Stevie, they can focus on the work, the musical partnership and letting all the old toxic sh*t go.

[nicole21290]

I don't think "no" is what she always thinks. She's expressly said as much. Oh Stevie you made a terrible mistake.

Michele

For sure. And yet she always speaks about having no regrets and so on. This is why I have trouble with just selecting quotes and putting them here to support a theory. Not only do they change what they say based on their audience, their memories failing, their mood, their current relationship, how much time has passed, but they also stretch the truth or outright lie at times.

That interview continues to fascinate me, however, both what's said and what's implied.

“Now, on the road, we’ve had many really good talks,” he says. “We’ve known each other most of our lives and yet we’re still trying to figure out what’s going on. Obviously, a lot of love as a subtext. But where is that love? How do we get in touch with any of that? For all of us, the decisions we make now are going to determine how we are as people until we die. Stevie and I are trying to look at it...with care.” He grunts a laugh. “It’s significant that someone can end up, you know.... not having killed you!”

“Now I just adore him,” says Nicks, with ravishing candour. “He is my love. My first love and my love for all time. But we can’t ever be together. He has a lovely wife, Kristen, who I really like, and they are expecting their third child. The way he is with his children just knocks me out. I look at him now and just go, Oh, Stevie, you made a mistake!”

She leans forward. “But when we go on-stage together we are able to experience our love affair again - and again and again! For two and a half hours, four times a week...There isn’t really anybody in my life - it wouldn’t be good for me now anyway, I’m always away. But when hard times come over the next 20 or 30 years, when people we love die, he’ll be the first person I’ll call. Knowing that now, I think he has been able to let go of all the nasty things that happened and realise that, like I said to him, Lindsey, you’ll always have me. I’m always a phone call away. So you get it all.”

“It’s a forever story with those two,” grins Fleetwood. “As it is with all of us.”

But you choose to ignore the fact that Stevie rejected the idea that he loved her and told him he would never love anyone but himself. He loved her, but she wasn't his top priority. She didn't feel loved. It seems to me that she always felt neglected and taken for granted. So, yes she has quotes in which she says he never stopped loving her, but she's also said that he hated her and just plain didn't like her. I don't think she's wrong either time. I think that both things are true and that things switch and flip many times, between two people.

And this is where context, hindsight, purpose of interview, and memory come into play. There's a real lack of consistency and real contradiction in what's said so it can be difficult to find the 'truth'. In their lies and in their 'truths'. Often one ends up having to go to a 'well, based on what I know of his/her character, I THINK' kind of angle, which is never conclusive, of course. Which is fine. I tend to be more interested in how they are NOW rather than what went down in the past anyway, to be honest.

I Hate That I Love You does come into play at times with those two, I think.

We tangle a lot, but we love each other - we'll always love each other. He and I will never get away from the fact that we were as one for so many years. (1982)

"You know, I was thinking about it a couple of days ago, Lindsey is probably the man who loved me the most in my life. So when I die I will remember that: that of all the men in my life Lindsey, absolutely, bar none, was the man who loved me the most." (2008)

"It's like Lindsey and me: no matter how many children or grandchildren you have, Lindsey, I'm always gonna be there. Lindsey has these three marvellous children, and that has given him unconditional love, which is what he always wanted. I couldn't give him that. But I know a lot of Lindsey's songs are about me, because a lot of my songs are about him. I call us 'our Miserable Muses'. In a band like Fleetwood Mac, you have arguments, and it makes for great art." She's warming to her theme, the slightest smile playing about her lips. "So is he sorry that our relationship broke up in 1976? Yes. And if he had to do it all over, would he not move to LA, and maybe try to find our record deal in San Francisco? Yes. Because we both believe that we might still be together. Probably not, but it's possible .... When we're together, and people see the two of us walking towards them, we are a force of nature. Absolutely." (2011)

I like the song lyrics too. Always have and I have always read Stevie and Lindsey song lyrics in relationship to one another. But I don't see lyrics as necessarily proving anything. First of all, people use artistic license in song lyrics. That's why Stevie says she left Lindsey, but Dreams seems to say the opposite: that he left her. You sprinkle in some real life, but ultimately you make a good song. Secondly, songs don't have to be about the type of love you're fantasizing about.

Yeah, it's a dialogue. Also, with Stevie, she can use more than one poem for one song, thus conflating events and messages and so on. Lyrics don't necessarily prove anything but they do work for insofar as consistent themes and messages and tone, I believe, in this case. The 'leaving' issues is a funny one - because she left but she also things he basically forced her to leave because of how things were. I don't think Dreams said he left, though. I mean, there was no 'this is it; it's over' anyway - they both might have said it but that's not how it worked up. They broke up in 1976, or she saw it coming to an end in August 1977, or they finally ended in 1987 when he LEFT, or she knew it was over when Lindsey's first child was born, or "who Lindsey and I are to each other will never change" and "there will always be something going on between you and me". She still calls him her 'other half' and leaves it to editors to add PROFESSIONALLY, for goodness' sake.

For instance, Stevie says maybe she worked so hard and so long just to watch you walk out that door and I really think it's the same message that was in Smile At You, written so much earlier. Go on, leave the key here. Save yourself. I think she actually thinks in a way that she has done all she has done just so Lindsey can have the family life he now has. The family life that doesn't include her. I think she thinks she saved him. By the same token, when he says "I did it all for you" he can very well mean it, but not in the "I did it all for you because I wish that we were married and had children of our own" sense.

She may think that and then she goes and basically undermines any emotional significance to his relationship with Kristen at other moments. When ARE you going to tell his wife that you'll both be going back to San Jose? That when one of the two of you dies, the other will be on the bed alone? So far as family goes, she might not be included in that family life (even if we have amusing quotes from 2003 about SnL being able to hang out now, and Stevie being friends with Kristen), but they remain family to each other. And besides, she "insists" on being part of Leelee's life because she feels like she's hers as well, and, as of 2013 in reference to the children, "I get them too".

Love runs deeper from a broken home
Black angel can't stand to be alone

The 'saving' idea is actually a consistent theme for both of them, though Stevie is generally in the place of wanting/needing to be saved, or cared for and protected (when Lindsey writes). I don't actually always think it's so clear-cut as 'Lindsey says 'save me' in the song so HE wants to be saved'; sometimes they both include conversation/dialogue within the song and it's someone else speaking, or they're addressing themselves.

L: Save me a place / I'll come running if you love me today
S: And not all the prayers in the world / Could save us
S: Love somebody / Save their soul
S: Save their lifestyle if you feel it / Don't try to change them
S: Go on, save yourself / Leave the key here
L: Hold me darlin’, don’t let go / Save each other from a world of woe
L: Save me / It's gone too far
S: It could come straight, straight from my heart / Nothing can be saved here
S: To be brave save the stranger / Sable on blond...
S: I can save you / Don't cry baby, I can save you
S: You'd like to save her / But you just can't give it up
S (S. Crow): You were master of so many / But savior to none
S: And it's not enough that you say you love me / It's not enough to just save face
S: You saved my life / I won’t forget it
S: Tonight there are no saviors
S: Ooh...up against the wall, baby / Well, I can't save you this time
S: If that woman could make you crazy / Did she call out, did she say, "Please save me"
S: Love, please save me / Don't let me be blind
S: Try, you can try again / Somebody save me from myself
S: Say goodbye, baby / Well, there isn't time / And you can't save me / Don't try to save me
S: Well, I told you what to do with your life / But you could not save me / I told you what to do with your life / But you did not save me
L: Slow down, baby / Cross that line / If you want to save me / It takes time

As for 'it was all for you', yes, it can be interpreted a few ways, I guess. It's just the idea of nakedly saying 'ALL for YOU' that warms me. But yes, he said this about it: "if you go back to that song “It Takes Time” and thinking maybe about times in the past when maybe I could have shown her a little more love or shown her a way to make her process a bit easier." One thing that sometimes isn't taken into account is the way an artist will focus on a small portion of lyrics and happily explain THOSE while neglecting to explain the majority of the song, which often contains the lyrics I WOULD want explained... I also like the callbacks in ITT to both Show You How and In Our Own Time, to be honest.

When Stevie told Courtney that Lindsey was her musical love, I think she was accurate. I think the music has given them a lasting relationship that would have ended a long time ago, had they not been in this band together. If BN had been a hit, then that music would have kept them together, but I don't know if BN would have had the staying power that FM has had. But if there was no music, then I don't think there would have been any couple for very long. 1975 could have been the end of something instead of the beginning.

The problem is I don't think it IS just a musical love. She's also said he was her romantic love (when she wasn't busy saying it was Joe, lol). The thing with music for them, though, is music is a way of expression, their life, a prism through which they show and understand, and is integral to who they are are people. Music is both what brought them together and keeps them together but without music, there is no them, it's not just there is not relationship.

But this musical love, this level of communication, I guess it's frustrating at times, because if there's no music, then how else can you relate? I think that with Stevie and Lindsey and the FM members in general, you have this great love, but no real way of expressing it, except when you're creating music. And they feel "I've shared so much with this person, how is it that we can have nothing to talk about, if it's not a demo?"

They seem to be able to talk, even about things other than demos, lol. And not just discussing what sports and hobbies Lindsey has to drive the children to. They have a shared life, shared memories, that probably provide plenty of conversation.

“And I said to him: ‘I believe that you and I need to remember who we were when we were 16 and 17 years old. We need to remember that we were really good friends before we ever had a date. We need to remember how much we respected each other, how much fun we had – and how much fun we can have when we’re both in good spirits. And we need to take that power couple on to the stage."

"Well, we had a great four days. I went up to Lindsey's house and we, I put some vocals on two songs and then we recorded another song. And actually sat around and told stories to my assistant and laughed and cried and had to be focused back in to do the recording that we were doing because we can, we are best storytellers. Especially if someone doesn't know all the stories, we are the greatest. And we can just sit and tell you stories for days."

"A lot of times it's just me and Lindsey [Buckingham]. You know, we have a lot of the same problems that we've always had, which is our egos. And we've had a lot of fights. But we spend hours talking -- we're like a bunch of girls sometimes. We'll be putting a guitar part on, and all of a sudden we'll be talking about something that happened on the Tusk tour, and two hours later we're still talking about it."

In fact, I think that's what Lindsey has wanted to preserve since the SYW album started. It's like, I've known her since I was 16, we should be able to get along. And that he's wanted the need to argue with and hurt each other with words to finally stop. Just because this is not the person you're sleeping with or could have built a home and a family with does not mean they're not your partner. And it's possible to have that partnership and rejoice in it and have outgrown the yearning for something else.

Certainly, he's said multiple times since SYW things along those lines. There were a few interviews just before Unleashed where he was also very heavily focused on HER - building that relationship seemed to be paramount in touring. I think partnership is a good phrase for it. And I agree and think they are able to rejoice in it and enjoy it more now. I mean, they had THE TALK for a reason - she didn't want to go onstage unless they could embrace who they had been, a cute, compassionate, loving power couple. I don't think they've outgrown yearning for something more than a partnership though, particularly from Lindsey's side. His songs are still filled with a yearning for more, a need to touch and connect, a need to protect and care for. There's also a lot of lies/truth, right/wrong, underground, crossing of lines, underground business, crimes, royalty, clues, fires, rooms, oceans and seas, and dreams to contend with, lol.

[michelej1]

on the other hand, i do think the overall sentiment of It Takes Time is not focusing on this competitiveness but wanting to finally outgrow it, coming full circle (:D), basically what you said below:

And I think of the Dance when Lindsey kept saying, "it used to be bittersweet, now it's just sweet" By 1997, they had evolved a lot from just three years earlier in 1994 when Stevie said, "I haven't talked to him since the inauguration. We're really not friends. We're really not anything. We did not break up friends, and we have never been friends since. He is not really able to have any kind of a relationship with me. I just bug him to death. Everything I do is abrasive to him."

Then after the SYW tour ended acrimoniously, I remember thinking. It used to be bittersweet, then it was just sweet and now it's just bitter.

But, despite some flare ups, I think they both have it in their heads now that life is a lot shorter now than it used to be and they don't want to end up being on the outs with each other in the end. They don't want to let barriers fester for years any more as they have in the past.

Michele

[nicole21290]

yep, totally agree. now that he's got a full personal life that's not connected to the band, or Stevie, they can focus on the work, the musical partnership and letting all the old toxic sh*t go.

His full, contented, inspirational personal life IS still connected to Stevie, though. As he said in Vegas 'many' of his songs are about her. He's not, when talking about her, focused purely on the work and musical partnership. His songs and interviews don't consistently speak of that door being closed in terms of a personal relationship not based solely on work and past memories.

Look, disregarding all of what he has publicly said about his songs and what/who they're about in recent years, there is far too much yearning, 'past' and use of certain words/phrases easily linked to Stevie for me to think his personal life is entirely unconnected to her. I think even songs that he chooses to cover are VERY important in terms of this. For all his talk of having 'our own lives' and having boundaries, I dunno. The music perhaps plays a role in being able to maintain those boundaries in that it's an outlet for feelings and emotions that can't be expressed other ways anymore if they're playing by the rules.

"You know, she has an album out as well and we spent a good deal of time together, more time than we'd spent together in quite a while. And, you know, I think we both realised that there are still chapters yet to be written in the Stevie and Lindsey book and, after all of this time, I think that's pretty extraordinary that there's still, that we're still working on our ****." (2011)

"We've been through things together that, you know, very few people have gone through. But, you know, there is also what I would define as a healthy distance at this point and yet there is this sort of undercurrent of a lot of things - nostalgia and, and, uh, a kind of, uh, and a love, and you would think - It's odd because on some strange level I think we're still working on it. It doesn't seem possible after all these years but I think on some level we are. And that's sweet." (2013)

"We are still discovering things about each other. We are still getting back to things that we once had. We can start to address some of the love that's always been there and some of the things that we have shared." (2013)

In the late of the evening with the cold in my eyes
I'm a madman out on a bad man route looking for paradise...
Resurrection will come apparition will go
And the shadow singer will stand and linger in places no one ever goes

I hear your heart as you pass through
I know the pain that you feel; I'll shepherd you...
Lay your head down; no one will see
Cry me a river of new dreams; float yourself free

Mirror, mirror in the sky / Won't you look what's happening here below
No one knows what's going on / Can you give us a sign where to go *

Magic one / All our dreams are done / I have no faith today...
Hearts will break / With choices we must make / So sleep and dream of me

Oh, you and I we sure can dream / Of conversations that might have been...
And even after all these years / I can't even see you clear

We never took quite enough chances / We never had quite enough time
I did about a thousand dances / But nothing would change your mind

If we forgive ourselves we might be whole
But you know that wishing, wishing won't make it so

The currents they caught her / Hiding in my room
Mirrors in her eyes / She was wet she was soaking
Ashes in the ocean / And her heart was broken

Every bone has been broken / Rumours all lost at sea
Every word every language has been spoken / Someone's got to set you free...
Suicide days, suicide suicide nights / In a wheelchair almost blind
Someone's going to have to pay the price / Someone's got to change your mind

In the shadow moon / Steel tears I cried
You were out of tune / It seemed to suit my dark side...
Love runs deeper from the underground / Love runs deeper from a broken home
Black angel can't be alone

Fighting for a cause I can't remember any more
Well I guess you could say that I was framed...
I changed my name / I went insane
Still I can't complain

I'm a little lost let me find my way / I'm a little dead let me live...
Come along lay down and talk to me / Tell me all your fear will allow
It doesn't matter who we thought we were / We ain't got time for that now

I go to my lover we lay on our bed
Did I sell my heart for the dreams in my head?

I walked around under moonlit skies / All alone going home hoping to fly
Face down in the ocean always gasping for air / Saw your face full of grace trying not to care...
I walk empty halls wondering what is true / Behind the garden walls I search for you
Deep down in the ocean deep down in the sea / Saw your face full of grace searching for me

Had a dream that you reached for me in the night / Touched me soft and slow
Everything was wrong but everything was right / Oh, the seeds we sow

Fire still burning, in a while she'll make it rain
These rooms are all falling down, they couldn't stand the strain
And the same old dream, she was hiding outside my door
She used to come from time to time but not any more

This time I think she's here for good but I never really know
Nothing here remains, just a vision of her face
The implications of a crime, it always takes the place...
Still in my mind

I've got a bad reputation / And you have something to hide
Ooh, such a strange sensation / When you finally open up your eyes

I lie alone and watch you sleep / I'd reach for you but I might weep
If you should tell me I must keep / Away, away, away...
I'd like to take your pain away / Away, away, away
Behind your shade the colors fade / Away, away, away

Sometimes we fantasise / Wondering if we could've tried
Wondering if we died / Wondering if the stars are crazy...
I wake up in the middle of the night / With you in my heart / With you in my heart
I can't touch you any more / It causes you harm *

For your love, I must be on time / Wait for hours alone by your shrine
Your bark is worse than my bite...
I see clues that you leave behind / White or blue, I know it can't be mine
I want to look for what I might find

Freedom is someone to know / There is no right or wrong anymore...
I keep walking on this heart of mine / I could go crazy without even trying
Fleeing the scene of the crime

No, I have no reputation / And I'm not on any list
That's because I've got a publicist / Who covers up the avarice of where I put my fist

And the love you know has come to an end / And the silence answers your call
Save me / It's gone too far / It's gone too far
When you're waiting for your ocean to rise / All alone at night long after I've gone
And your conversations all end in lies / And you wake up singing one of my songs

When we get to the other side /Maybe then we'll make amends...
Swing low sweet chariot / Give us back our youth
When they finally come to bury us / Maybe then we'll tell the truth

All those who love her / They look on in pain...
A thousand years / With no place to go / How will we get along?
A thousand pains / That raven never shows...
Promises, promises / Already planned / Innocence dies

Every night, every day / In this house filled with shame...
There's no truth in my life / There's no light in my eyes
And it's all I guess / That I'll ever miss

Why do you come around / So very much
You know it just brings you down / It's just something you can touch...
Anyone at all / Could see what was missin'
Could see you were dyin' / But no one was cryin'

But there's only one brush we need / It's the one that never leaves a trace

All alone we go on day after day / All alone we suffer ...
And the lie was creeping / Down, down, down
While we were sleeping / Suddenly we hit the ground

And once again she calls to me / Then she vanishes in thin air...
Somebody's got to see this through / All the world is laughing at you
And somebody's got to sacrifice / If this whole thing's gonna turn out right

And the price that we paid / For a love we couldn't hold...
I let you slip away / There was nothing I could do
That was so long ago, yeah / Still I often think of you
I fall down, I get up / And I've always had to fight
Everything that was wrong / For the things that were right

My eyes were consumed / By the silence in the room
Your dreams would not wake / From the words that we break...
My eyes saw the words / With a prayer and a curse
Your pain had to sleep / With a sword that it keeps

Maybe I've just been holding out too long / Maybe I couldn't admit I was wrong
And maybe I've just been lying to myself...
Maybe I've wasted all this precious time / Trying to prove what is and isn't mine...
If you want to save me / It takes time

I had another dream about you last night / Sailing on a sea of blue
You were grieving for someone else / I was grieving for you...
From the window I heard your voice / Telling me you were through

[michelej1]

And this is where context, hindsight, purpose of interview, and memory come into play. There's a real lack of consistency and real contradiction in what's said so it can be difficult to find the 'truth'. In their lies and in their 'truths'.

I think people reveal the truth in their lies. So, the things they choose to lie about are actually very instructive and important. However, no two people are going to agree on what is the lie and what the truth is.


I tend to be more interested in how they are NOW rather than what went down in the past anyway, to be honest.

But I see them as inextricable. I think people revert to their past behaviors often. You can go awhile without it happening, but like a rubber band, the past only lets you go so far before it snaps you right back and old hurts, old attitudes and old anger start cropping up again. I think this last tour went extremely well for the most part, but I wouldn't be surprised if their relationship takes two steps back now.

As for songs, I think those like Sara and Tusk are about several things and people. Don gets a verse. Mick. Jess. OJ. I think there are many songs that are amorphous like that. But I also think there are songs that are about two people. I consider, Show You How, for instance, as one of those. I think it's about Stevie, but I think it's about Kristen too. I think Stevie is the shadow singer, for sure, but I don't think of her as also the one who shows him what it's all about when the lights go out. I see him as thanking Kristen for showing him that there's a life beyond the stage curtain. So, I see the song as being both about an addiction to Stevie, deep, lingering in places where no one ever goes. But I think it's also about realizing a world after that and being pulled out of the abyss, away from the spectre.

The 'saving' idea is actually a consistent theme for both of them, though

The saving idea is a martyr's fantasy. I mean, I'd like to know how often he was really like the protagonist in Under the Skin. Probably, not as frequently as he'd like to think. Or someone's got to sacrifice if the thing is going to turn out right. It's a theme repeated, but how often are sacrifices really made?

But yes, I think they both put themselves in the role of savior more often than they deserve to be. As for Lindsey wanting to be saved, sure. In fact, I see lines like "I fall down I get up" or "we fall down, we get up" as a wish for resiliency in relationships that was too often lacking. Let's push through this breach. Let's take a drink from the loving cup and mend the friction. I think it's another way of saying "save us."

With Gone Too Far, he says "save me" but the words of the chorus seem to contradict the verses and it's a confusing use of pronouns. I don't think he's asking for help, so much as saying "I want to be spared from watching your pain, when you're alone and lost -- and missing me."

As you said, it's sometimes someone else speaking or two people speaking and it's not clear which one is talking, from line to line.

So, I don't really see Gone Too Far as a "save" song. But "Someone's got to set you free" or "Deep Down There is Freedom" or "I'll come back to get you," yes, I see those as all saying, at the end of this, I'll rescue you.



The problem is I don't think it IS just a musical love. She's also said he was her romantic love (when she wasn't busy saying it was Joe, lol). The thing with music for them, though, is music is a way of expression, their life, a prism through which they show and understand, and is integral to who they are are people.

But I think communicating through music, loving through music is a trap or a crutch, because it kept them from relating in more fundamental ways that are necessary for the mundane, domestic necessities of life.

I always imagine the conversation, "Well, I'm going home on the bus. You have the car, so you take Ginny," as being more of the planning as a team that they should have been doing and if they had, one of them wouldn't have always have been blowing up, slamming the door and running out. That kind of 'you do this and I'll do that and we'll acommplish X' is something that they don't seem to have worked out very well in all these decades. Instead, they call their managers and write songs about it. The musical love hampers and strangled the other, because it became the default mode of communication.


They seem to be able to talk, even about things other than demos, lol. And not just discussing what sports and hobbies Lindsey has to drive the children to. They have a shared life, shared memories, that probably provide plenty of conversation.

Sure, Lindsey has said that he's shared more with FM than he has his blood family, so they have those roots. And Stevie said when something bad happens (like a family death or something) she calls Lindsey on the phone and gets emotional upon hearing his voice because they've known each other for so long. She'll say something like she was the one who answered the phone and had to hand it to him, when they called to say his father died.

And they haven't mentioned his brother's death, but I feel it must have played a part in his Behind The Mask appearances. I think the band must have called him when it happened and lo and behold he shows up on stage in December. I see a relationship between those things. I think they've shared a great amount. I just don't think they have much in common.

To me, even in Stevie's re-creation of her Rhiannon conversation with Lindsey "isn't that a pretty name? Yes Stevie, it is a pretty name," that Lindsey is thinking to himself, "what in the devil?" I mean, that's not even the real Lindsey. It's Stevie's impersonation of Lindsey and I don't think even the impersonation is that interested in her whimsy.

On the other hand, when they did Soldier's Angel together, I kind of fantasize that they had discussions about politics and probably agreed. So, I think they can relate on some level about things outside of music. I just don't think they can share as much as she did with Dave Stewart. And even though she was with Dave to record an album, the daily dinners she described, the dressing up, the parties, even the theatrical way they posed in all of those pictures together (pictures I did not want Dave in) revealed two people who mesh psychologically. I don't think she has that with Lindsey, although she does with Mick. Of course, she and Dave can't create what she and Lindsey did, in my book, but I think they could have a marriage.

And when Lindsey had Stevie over to his house and showed her his family, I think he wanted to kind of give her the fun she had talked about having with Dave, but it's not going to be the same, precisely because I do think she looks at Lindsey's children as hers, potentially and with the pleasure of being around them that she takes in all kids, especially girls, comes a little pain when his daughters are involved.

I was at the concert when she announced Stella's birth after their break. And she was about to say "we" had a baby, but she changed it and I thought it was adorable -- and a little heart-tugging.

Michele

[nicole21290]

I think people reveal the truth in their lies. So, the things they choose to lie about are actually very instructive and important. However, no two people are going to agree on what is the lie and what the truth is.

Amen to that. What they choose to:
- talk about when not asked or prompted (and it doesn't 'fit')
- lie about, especially over a long period of time
- omit from accounts
- discuss in the exact same terms consistently with NO change
interests me a lot. And yeah, we unfortunately often have no objective way of knowing which is the lie and which is the truth.

But I see them as inextricable. I think people revert to their past behaviors often. You can go awhile without it happening, but like a rubber band, the past only lets you go so far before it snaps you right back and old hurts, old attitudes and old anger start cropping up again. I think this last tour went extremely well for the most part, but I wouldn't be surprised if their relationship takes two steps back now.

Oh, no, absolutely, I agree. They are. The past impacts the present and the future, and the past colours the way things are and will be no matter how many times they might claim the 'baggage' has gone. They're always able to build and discover more baggage, apparently. I wouldn't be surprised if they *SAY* they relationship has taken two steps back now but I don't think it actually will. Having a few arguments isn't taking steps back, I don't think. Every couple has arguments and even heavy fights. I have hopes that they won't persist in their predictable pattern of 'happy to tour-end tour-we fought-we had a talk-reconciliation-happy to tour', etc, based on a change in approach I thought occurred from after Unleashed but you never know. Even if they don't create new drama to cause trouble between them, the media can be relied upon to create it itself by dragging up OLD, OLD stories yet again.

As for songs, I think those like Sara and Tusk are about several things and people. Don gets a verse. Mick. Jess. OJ. I think there are many songs that are amorphous like that. But I also think there are songs that are about two people. I consider, Show You How, for instance, as one of those. I think it's about Stevie, but I think it's about Kristen too. I think Stevie is the shadow singer, for sure, but I don't think of her as also the one who shows him what it's all about when the lights go out. I see him as thanking Kristen for showing him that there's a life beyond the stage curtain. So, I see the song as being both about an addiction to Stevie, deep, lingering in places where no one ever goes. But I think it's also about realizing a world after that and being pulled out of the abyss, away from the spectre.

Yes, there are definitely songs that are an amalgamation. Lindsey's said as much that some of Stevie's that he thought were about him were like that. I don't think it's necessarily as clear-cut as 'one verse for you, one verse for YOU'. She said that about Say You Will and I don't buy her entire explanation - the narrative of the song doesn't really support that even if she WAS thinking in general terms or about several people throughout.

Ah, Show You How is interesting. I USED to think that. However, I actually lean more towards a view I now have about Cast Away Dreams - WHY force it to be about two women when it can easily be about one if you don't insist on taking his explanations as the gospel truth? I mean, the shadow singer reference (and lingering again, bless) is fairly clear and I can see why the 'show you how' could easily be read as being about Kristen. However, we then come to an exact repetition within It Takes Time (and a near repetition in In Our Own Time) which we KNOW is about Stevie.

Slow down, baby
Cross that line
If you want to save me
It takes time

She says slow down baby,
Slow down now

We crossed the line
From the fire we will rise again
In our own time

We have a small issue here, however. In Show You How, the woman is telling the man to 'slow down, baby'. So is it fair to say the same is true in It Takes Time? That the woman is telling the man to cross that line if he wants to be saved then? Or maybe it's all coincidence and not deliberate. In Show You How, we also have him waking from a dream to find his other half. In Cast Away Dreams, we have dancing on those dreams. And yet we have like THREE references to waking up from a dream, to her being in them, on SWS and yet another on the EP. I don't know how well those wishes that died stayed buried, lol.

The saving idea is a martyr's fantasy. I mean, I'd like to know how often he was really like the protagonist in Under the Skin. Probably, not as frequently as he'd like to think. Or someone's got to sacrifice if the thing is going to turn out right. It's a theme repeated, but how often are sacrifices really made?

Ha, yep. Lindsey likes to hang himself up on that damn cross, and Stevie likes to romanticise romance. Yeah, judging from quite a number of comments he's made about realising he could've helped more, made better choices, etc, not as much as he'd like. But I adore the sentiment in UTS so very much and he does come back to it on SWS as well. It's hard for us to really know how much sacrifice gets made, how much care and protecting is taken. We only see a very small portion of their life/lives and it's filtered and selected.

But yes, I think they both put themselves in the role of savior more often than they deserve to be. As for Lindsey wanting to be saved, sure. In fact, I see lines like "I fall down I get up" or "we fall down, we get up" as a wish for resiliency in relationships that was too often lacking. Let's push through this breach. Let's take a drink from the loving cup and mend the friction. I think it's another way of saying "save us."

Yeah, perhaps that's true and certainly I agree on the idea of resilience - he persists. The 'falling' idea is a pretty consistently re-occurring one and not just in terms of 'falling in love', yes. I always found the turning to each other for the 'not all the prayers in the world can save us' during the Unleashed tour very effective, too, as are the extension of the 'saving' lyrics in GDW.

I wake up / But only to fall
I did a good job of falling, so good I can't win / Every time I try to let it go, it keeps comin' back again
When the road gets rough / I fall down / I get up
Agony's torn at my heart too long / So afraid / Slip and I fall and I die
We fall down, we get hurt, / We get up, and take a drink from the loving cup
Do you still tremble when I fall?
Now fall down onto your knees / show us all what you can do
We fall to earth together / The crowd’s calling out for more
I fall down, I get up and I've always had to fight / Everything that was wrong for the things that were right
What makes you think I'm the one / Who will catch you when you're fallin'?
I can jump right off and fall right into the ocean / I can come right out mean just what I say
Now she's laughing / Now she's falling

Two children too blind to see / I would fall in your shadow...I believe
When they fall / And they can't stand up in the darkness
Find yourself somebody new / To catch you when you fall*
But the ground is further than I thought / I'm afraid of falling, this is a strange feeling
All the looks that you've used on me / Don't work now that you've fallen, fallen, fallen
But you can't keep her / And you can't catch her fall
Too uncertain to fall together / To remain, to be true
Sometimes to turn away from you / And not even fall
I am older now / But I still remember / I took the greatest fall
Sometimes I feel like I was always on-call / Sometimes even I am allowed to fall
Lie down and you fall face-down / And you wonder why you must go on
You fall to your knees / You embrace the storm

As you said, it's sometimes someone else speaking or two people speaking and it's not clear which one is talking, from line to line.

So, I don't really see Gone Too Far as a "save" song. But "Someone's got to set you free" or "Deep Down There is Freedom" or "I'll come back to get you," yes, I see those as all saying, at the end of this, I'll rescue you.

Very cheeky habit of theirs! :D And sometimes the markers which make it clear and delineate who is talking when are hidden by the time the song makes it from it's demo form ala Sara.

Said "Sara, you're the poet in my heart"
Never change... never stop

He cried Sara... you're the poet in my heart
Never change... never stop

They'll sometimes not just quote someone else, or change POVs or write out a conversation without any of the verbal markers, lol.

I always imagine the conversation, "Well, I'm going home on the bus. You have the car, so you take Ginny," as being more of the planning as a team that they should have been doing and if they had, one of them wouldn't have always have been blowing up, slamming the door and running out. That kind of 'you do this and I'll do that and we'll acommplish X' is something that they don't seem to have worked out very well in all these decades. Instead, they call their managers and write songs about it. The musical love hampers and strangled the other, because it became the default mode of communication.

And I think there would have still been that blowing up, unfortunately, because they didn't address some of the underlying issues they had. However, before Fleetwood Mac I think they were more 'normal' in terms of conversation and interaction and so on. Yes, the songs were even then used to express what they probably couldn't and didn't say out loud to the other person but they weren't 100% dysfunction. Everytime they're promoting a new tour they discuss this 'we've talked' thing - they're always having a talk or the talk or finally addressing things.

I think they've shared a great amount. I just don't think they have much in common.

To me, even in Stevie's re-creation of her Rhiannon conversation with Lindsey "isn't that a pretty name? Yes Stevie, it is a pretty name," that Lindsey is thinking to himself, "what in the devil?" I mean, that's not even the real Lindsey. It's Stevie's impersonation of Lindsey and I don't think even the impersonation is that interested in her whimsy.

Yes to the first point and I'm still unsure on the second. I mean, how much does one NEED to have in common? I certainly don't think it's a case of 'opposites attract' for them. They're not opposites. I also think they sometimes play up the differences, in truth. Lindsey likes to bang on about how they like different musical styles and grew apart in that arena. So, Lindsey, did you like Stevie's cover of Crash Into Me or only when you saw Dave Matthews perform it live? Yes, they have different views, different tastes, different attitudes but I don't see that as some insurmountable issue in any way. Besides, it can be fun trying to convince the other person to like what you like. Keep verbally swapping Katy Perry song lyrics onstage, guys.

On the other hand, when they did Soldier's Angel together, I kind of fantasize that they had discussions about politics and probably agreed. So, I think they can relate on some level about things outside of music. I just don't think they can share as much as she did with Dave Stewart. And even though she was with Dave to record an album, the daily dinners she described, the dressing up, the parties, even the theatrical way they posed in all of those pictures together (pictures I did not want Dave in) revealed two people who mesh psychologically. I don't think she has that with Lindsey, although she does with Mick. Of course, she and Dave can't create what she and Lindsey did, in my book, but I think they could have a marriage.

It ends up coming down to the idea of change and meeting in the middle and compromise - are you willing to do that? At what point? What sacrifices might you have to make? Are you trying to change? How important is it to you? These differences may be fundamental to personality (introvert versus extrovert, perfectionist studio rat versus positive atmosphere please, etc) but, while that causes arguments, it also works in their favour as well, I think. Stevie talked about, in terms of her and Dave writing together, Lennon and McCartney, that one person has strengths where the other is weak and vice versa and that strengthens the end product. And that's all true (though it's not true that they wrote like Lennon McCartney, and she recycled her spiel about never having written like this before from like 1983 and experiences with Sandy Stewart, IIRC). I think it also applies to SnL, even if unacknowledged some of the time.

The relationships are just different. And Stevie, as she says, won't get closer to marriage than what she had with Lindsey. The fact that they're how they are as of this year after all this time is sufficient for me to think their bond (whatever it is) is pretty unbreakable now.

And when Lindsey had Stevie over to his house and showed her his family, I think he wanted to kind of give her the fun she had talked about having with Dave, but it's not going to be the same, precisely because I do think she looks at Lindsey's children as hers, potentially and with the pleasure of being around them that she takes in all kids, especially girls, comes a little pain when his daughters are involved.

I was at the concert when she announced Stella's birth after their break. And she was about to say "we" had a baby, but she changed it and I thought it was adorable -- and a little heart-tugging.

Hmm, perhaps. He certainly knew without her talking what that experience was like for her seeing as he talked a few times about spending quite a lot of time with her while she made that album. He also contrasted it to the more negative experiences she'd had prior to that. I would imagine he can't provide that same atmosphere but he can provide something she wants and needs. She actually used to talk more about the kids - their sports, personalities (Will quiet, though? Obviously she HASN'T seen his online presence...), etc - but that got shut down a little at some point. But yes, she does have an 'odd' sense of ownership of them which I find bittersweet. And kind of hilarious - yep, Stevie hold onto your other half's hand and chat about his lovely wife and how you get his kids too. He doesn't even blink, lol.

Oh, sweet. That would've been an amazing concert to go to. I think I almost ruined my eardrums trying to hear exactly what SnL were saying during the 'guitars not working - let's do push ups instead' kerfuffle. :D But yes, I found that dedication to Stella ENTIRELY adorable. She wasn't ABOUT to say 'we'; she actually did say it before amending it to 'they', lol. She was proper happy and they were pretty affectionate, though, which was nice to see (gotta love her being the one to swap roles and kiss HIS hand after Landslide for a change).

[michelej1]

Ah, Show You How is interesting. I USED to think that. However, I actually lean more towards a view I now have about Cast Away Dreams - WHY force it to be about two women when it can easily be about one if you don't insist on taking his explanations as the gospel truth? I mean, the shadow singer reference (and lingering again, bless) is fairly clear and I can see why the 'show you how' could easily be read as being about Kristen. However, we then come to an exact repetition within It Takes Time (and a near repetition in In Our Own Time) which we KNOW is about Stevie.

I formed my opinion of "Show You How" long before Lindsey said anything about it. Three songs were released as a preview and when I heard that one, I immediately decided what it meant to me, even though there were some words that I misheard until I got the lyric sheet.

I don't think it's about two people because of anything Lindsey has said. I think it's about two people because he seems to be talking to someone who intervened in his life, someone new. He was a madman out of a badman's route looking for paradise. I take that to mean looking for casual sex, when he was introduced into something more permanent.

It Takes Time doesn't change my view of the first song. If anything, that's where I don't take Lindsey literally. Yes, it's about Stevie, but I don't think that's all It Takes Time is about. I still don't think Stevie's the one who wants to save him -- or change him, pull him out and away from the fire that consumed him before.


In Show You How, we also have him waking from a dream to find his other half. In Cast Away Dreams, we have dancing on those dreams. And yet we have like THREE references to waking up from a dream, to her being in them, on SWS and yet another on the EP. I don't know how well those wishes that died stayed buried, lol.


I like the waking from a dream. And Treason is the same. Although, he's not dreaming there, necessarily. He's underwater, drowning (now that's familiar!) and it's almost as if he's saved just before being overcome by her face full of grace, searching for me. And I also like "grace". Lindsey has used it forever (EOTW), but after FFG, when he uses it again, it seemed to take on a deeper meaning. It's the same thing with faith. I've shaken your faith in me? No, you've shaken it in everything else. Then, "I have no faith today."

Now, "I have no faith today" is an example of what you said about a phrase taking on extra meaning, because it comes out of nowhere and isn't connected to the rest of the verse. Also, "long live the queen" is like that.

As for the waking from a dream, Gone Too Far reminds me of an interview Stevie gave and she said she often wakes from sleep to hear FM and she doesn't recognize it is FM by the singing, she groggily recognizes the band through the rhythm section. Gone Too Far put an image in my head of Stevie roused from sleep, not by FM, but by a Lindsey song that is less familiar to her and gradually recognizing his guitar or his voice. The sound of my voice will haunt you.

Before UTS was released, we just had the song titles and it was fun to look at them and try to guess what the songs would be about. Well, with CAD because of Gift of Screws, I thought Lindsey might also be familiar with a poem by Susan Dickinson and I thought that CAD might borrow from it. In the end, it did not. But it was still fun reading that poem in relationship to Lindsey and, in fact, I do find themes from it run through his SWS album.

Hyssop

Lives burned by grief and sin,
Barred close from warmth and light
Visions of beauty win,
Thro fancy's magic night.

Spent souls at close of fray
Shorn of all gifts but pain.
Shrink from the narrow Way -
And gaze at day again -

In thews of grinding ice.
Fast in its death cold seams,
Of warmth and sunny skies,
The Arctic castaway dreams.

No instant's flash & gleam,
No brief reprieve from pain,
Or lapse in honey dazey dream
For those whom Love hath slain




Yes to the first point and I'm still unsure on the second. I mean, how much does one NEED to have in common?

You don't need to have a lot in common, but I think you have to not think the other person's interests are boring and stupid. I don't think they much respect the other's journeys or processes. In DR when they sat across from John it was funny because it was like he was thinking, "I love them, but they're silly. I need to get to my boat." And they were together, almost looking at themselves from his perspective. But I also think they sit opposite of each other like that. I think they like some of the other's end result, but I don't think they appreciate how the other person gets there, which is fine for them professionally, but I don't think it works day in and day out when you're sharing other parts of a person's life. I think it leads to impatience and friction.

No, I don't think it's a case of opposites attracting because, because aside from physical attraction, I don't think they are particularly attracted to each other, not at a personality level. But when they're both in good humor? Yes, I guess. I don't know how often that happens, though, because I think a laugh can pretty quickly turn to annoyance when you think you're being laughed at and not with.



Hmm, perhaps. He certainly knew without her talking what that experience was like for her seeing as he talked a few times about spending quite a lot of time with her while she made that album.

She certainly talked about the visit and the bunker a lot, but I don't know how it actually felt. I will be shocked if they (well her, not Christine, Mick and John) use his house for recording, if they do indeed go back into the studio in March.

The first time I saw Will at a concert, he was about 7 and he was finding kids he knew and telling them to come backstage. Kristen was chasing after him, tracing the kids' parents and making sure it was all right with the adult if the child went backstage. I got the impression that Will was a mini social magnet.

As for Madison, here's what I wrote down about that part, years back:

SAY GOODBYE: Lovely -- not the song -- the instrumental failure. Great fun. Lindsey did his little speech for Say Goodbye, but then something happened with his guitar. He goes to the side to fix it, saying that this is a lesson in "earn while you learn."

Stevie pretends that she's going to do a little tap dance. When he comes back he begs Ray just to tell him he's ok. Ray walks over and says that he's ok to play again and Lindsey pats him. Lindsey says that Ray is his long time friend and assistant whose last name is Lindsay. "Isn't that weird?" Stevie says "It is weird." Reminiscent of the conversation he had with Christine on the The Dance video. Lindsey is easily weirded out. He must not get out much. He thinks the most common things are singular. Anyway, he says that in all fairness it is not Ray's fault because this is the first night of their tour and there are bound to be problems. He tells Ray there will be a $50 fine. He prepares to start Say Goodbye again and turns to Stevie again, but says that the tender moment is gone. He says the audience should have pity, while they try to recapture the mood. She laughs and says they should try to be serious again and regain their composure. He starts playing and the guitar goes out again. Many giggles from Stevie. Lindsey lays on the floor. She says that Lindsey is just going to take a little nap. He starts doing sit ups and then he turns on his stomach and does push ups. Stevie says, "I had no idea you could do that." Gee, that doesnt' say much about their sex life, if she had no idea. Shedding new light on why things started falling apart 30 years ago . . . She tells him, "I am so proud of you." After the push ups, Lindsey is on his knees, pretending to be too fatigued to stand up by himself. Stevie hugs him, caresses his face, kisses his hand and "helps" him off the floor. She says that this is not the first time she and Lindsey have been on stage when nothing worked. She said they started this back in 1968 and some nights ALL the equipment failed "and look where we are today".

It is heady to imagine that 36 years ago Lindsey, Stevie, and the rest of Fritz were on some small stage somewhere performing. I think I’d love Stevie and Lindsey for their history alone. The temperamental guitar finally allows them to perform Say Goodbye. It seems to me that Lindsey has tried to extend the "scheme within a scheme" part, by saying the words more slowly, with great inflection. Honestly, the last thing that song needed was stretching. But the intro to it was so adorable this time that I forgive him.

RED ROVER: Mick and Taku come out onto the stage to great applause. Lindsey gives the speech about the gods looking down on earth and wondering what it has become. He says that it sounds like a cynical song, but it's really very tender. He starts playing and the guitar goes out again. Stevie laughs and says, "OK Mick. It's your turn now." Mick comes out and says that he's glad he has this chance to tell us a little story. He says, "it gets me away from having to sit on that box." He and Taku were sitting on boxes playing -- well, I don't know one type of drum from the other. They were not playing bongos. They were playing flat things and Taku was shaking a silver thing too. Starting his story, Mick says once there was this car riding down the street. It stopped and out came 3 broken guitars. He says that Lindsey Buckingham deserves a medal.

After consulting with Lindsey first, Stevie says that she wants to give the audience a little history. This isn't really their first show. They did 106 shows in the U. S., Europe, etc. and then they took a 2 month break. They rehearsed for 3 weeks, but the last 3 weeks they haven't rehearsed because Lindsey Buckingham had a baby girl named Stella. She says they had to take 3 weeks off "so we, they, could have baby Stella." So, they didn't finish their rehearsals and that's why there have been a few technical glitches. She says, in light thereof, they must dedicate this show to Baby Stella. Much applause.

[michelej1]

We have a small issue here, however. In Show You How, the woman is telling the man to 'slow down, baby'. So is it fair to say the same is true in It Takes Time? That the woman is telling the man to cross that line if he wants to be saved then? Or maybe it's all coincidence and not deliberate. In Show You How, we also have him waking from a dream to find his other half.

I also wanted to add how much I'm moved by the idea of being lost or wandering, searching for something and then finding it and learning that the other person has been searching exactly for you as well.

I find the Hold Me video very poignant because of this. And also the outstretched hands in the SYW cd insert say the same thing for me. You're reaching and you don't even know there's anything there. You have no assurance that there is. And then you find it and they were reaching too, looking for you. It's a lovely sentiment.

Michele

[Rumour0323]

I don't think you can underestimate the impact of how, what they say now, affects his children. They are going to come across this stuff someday and I think that both of them choose their words a little more wisely now in light of that.

[nicole21290]

I don't think you can underestimate the impact of how, what they say now, affects his children. They are going to come across this stuff someday and I think that both of them choose their words a little more wisely now in light of that.

Lindsey might be a little wiser in terms of giving interviews saying things that might affect them in that way, but Stevie still comes out with howlers that totally serve to undermine any emotional significance to Lindsey's marriage and the irrelevance of that to their own relationship. Who they are to each other will never change? It doesn't matter that he's married? When one of them dies at 90, the other will be sat on the bed alone?

They both certainly understands how the children change/d things, though.

STEVIE: He's in love again. He's in love with these children. We have been very spoiled rotten rock 'n' roll stars and so those little children make it most impossible to continue to be the way that we were.

Do you realise that a lot of women secretly hope that you and Stevie somehow reconcile and then onstage you announce that you're going out again?
LINDSEY: Well. You know. Uh, I mean, it's funny, you know, when Stevie and I, when we toured in 2003 there was still a little polarity going on and then we toured in 2009 and it was kind of neutral and now, uh, onstage, you know, between Stevie and me, it's kind of a lovefest. But, you know, uh, the idea of actually on a personal level getting back together is just, I mean, I have three children now so, you know, that's, it's not, that's not going to happen.

[elle]

but Stevie still comes out with howlers that totally serve to undermine any emotional significance to Lindsey's marriage and the irrelevance of that to their own relationship.

well, Lindsey is not the only man whose marriage she ignores when talking about whatever her relationship with him may be, whether in the past or future or what she says is just her perception or actually a reality.

Nicks is either oblivious or deliberately ignores marriages, wives, or children of various men throughout her life when she talks about them, regardless of whether they were married at the time they had affairs with her. Joe Walsh comes to mind - at the time when he was supposedly the greatest love of her life, he was married with a new baby. of course cheating while on the road was really his problem and not exactly hers, but still, someone like his daughter who was born right before that affair started may not particularly enjoy putting exact timeframe on it and dragging it out into public discussions years later. :shrug:

[Rumour0323]

Oh I agree, I either read or saw an interview a few weeks back, where she said something to the effect of, well in ten years his kids will be gone, they'll all be gone and so who know....

I'm paraphrasing of course, but she totally left out the part that the wife would still be in the picture. I know that she totally dismisses that marriage. I just was saying with regards to the ongoing discussion of whether or not you can believe the "quotes" that have been posted, that I think it's skewed even moreso now that the kids are teenagers and could be starting to hear more about what is being said from their access to all of the social media. Even though I am certain they have been well schooled in the "it's all for show" schtick.

I agree with whoever said above that the story changes depending on the wind. I think her most significant song of late is You May Be the One. That one song covers the rekindling of the affair during the dance, Kristen getting pregnant with Will "the kiss right out there in the universe" and then the fight afther the recording of SYW. Yet she still says in 2011 "how it's lasted so long is a mystery to me." Crazy stuff, I am sure cleverly crafted to keep us guessing. Lindsey tells us straight up that she is the Queen of the Underground.

It's the best soap opera out there that's for sure.

[MoonSister75]

I agree with you and I think there is beauty in the long, fabled and invincible nature of the love they do have. When Stevie told Courtney that Lindsey was her musical love, I think she was accurate. I think the music has given them a lasting relationship that would have ended a long time ago, had they not been in this band together. If BN had been a hit, then that music would have kept them together, but I don't know if BN would have had the staying power that FM has had. But if there was no music, then I don't think there would have been any couple for very long. 1975 could have been the end of something instead of the beginning.

But this musical love, this level of communication, I guess it's frustrating at times, because if there's no music, then how else can you relate? I think that with Stevie and Lindsey and the FM members in general, you have this great love, but no real way of expressing it, except when you're creating music. And they feel "I've shared so much with this person, how is it that we can have nothing to talk about, if it's not a demo?"

So, the connection may seem attenuated at times because it's not based on the traditional exchanges that most relationships are, but in reality, it's something that has endured longer than many romantic loves. Longer than the love they had outside of the music, when they were living together. Because I don't think that was taking them very far. But because of FM, I think it has evolved into something bigger. Sex and passion are not more. They're just different. I think what they do have is more.

In fact, I think that's what Lindsey has wanted to preserve since the SYW album started. It's like, I've known her since I was 16, we should be able to get along. And that he's wanted the need to argue with and hurt each other with words to finally stop. Just because this is not the person you're sleeping with or could have built a home and a family with does not mean they're not your partner. And it's possible to have that partnership and rejoice in it and have outgrown the yearning for something else.

Michele

I really like your description of SnL's relationship :nod:. I see a real beauty in the love that they do have now, and everything they have experienced together has resulted in some fantastic music! I'm not 100% convinced that they have outgrown the yearning for something else, but I do think they probably realise they are better off apart.

[MoonSister75]

Oh I agree, I either read or saw an interview a few weeks back, where she said something to the effect of, well in ten years his kids will be gone, they'll all be gone and so who know....



So you read or heard her say this in an interview too? I mentioned this quote on here, in early January, but I couldn't remember where I'd read or heard it. I watched a huge amount of Stevie interviews on you-tube last year, and have no idea which one it was on. Do you know which interview it was? Thanks :)

[MoonSister75]

I just stumbled across this, and it has a beautiful piano cover of Gypsy.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/eahfifvctXM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Rumour0323]

So you read or heard her say this in an interview too? I mentioned this quote on here, in early January, but I couldn't remember where I'd read or heard it. I watched a huge amount of Stevie interviews on you-tube last year, and have no idea which one it was on. Do you know which interview it was? Thanks :)

No I'm sorry I don't. I was doing the same thing. I was looking for something and watched like 50 interviews. I want to say it was the ones that she did in 2009 in Australia, but she was pretty angry in those so I'm not sure. Sorry.

I was struck at how matter of factly she states sometimes that at some point in the future they will be together. Somewhere else she made the statement about them moving back to SF, not her, them!! Very strange.

[WildHearted]

well, Lindsey is not the only man whose marriage she ignores when talking about whatever her relationship with him may be, whether in the past or future or what she says is just her perception or actually a reality.

Nicks is either oblivious or deliberately ignores marriages, wives, or children of various men throughout her life when she talks about them, regardless of whether they were married at the time they had affairs with her. Joe Walsh comes to mind - at the time when he was supposedly the greatest love of her life, he was married with a new baby. of course cheating while on the road was really his problem and not exactly hers, but still, someone like his daughter who was born right before that affair started may not particularly enjoy putting exact time frame on it and dragging it out into public discussions years later. :shrug:

Well, I think Stevie does care.. in her own sort of way. Sometimes she'll even make a point to say, "Lindsey's wife is cool with it," etc., like she did regarding her saying he was her muse. So no, I don't think she's oblivious, nor do I think she's deliberately being malicious. I just think Stevie has a very singular perspective on the people she has dated and it doesn't always register that some of the things she says might be considered inappropriate/inconsiderate (and you know, a lot of those quotes are from text interviews and not video/audio interviews, so it's possible that the bluntness of them is the result of the transcription and that they might have come off differently if we actually heard her say it). I do think she generally attempts wait it out before she talks about stuff... like, we've never even heard of Derek Taylor (who had been married for what, 20 years? at the time they had their affair) until this past year even though that relationship happened in the late 70s. She tells the stories when she feels that it's been so long it's bound to be okay to bring it up (not to say the other parties would necessarily agree). She actually said recently that she'd have to wait to write a book until Don and Lindsey's wives wouldn't care what she said :laugh:

[CADreaming]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/6a512f4ec1dff47044106a89c8b7b2be/tumblr_n1aywxNw3F1skycejo1_1280.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/c873cb3d533f6aa61cc216cbfccf14ea/tumblr_n1870pNfA71si3adoo1_250.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/22cadff97a448787aafdd10d4ac844eb/tumblr_n19bimQFb31qcaugio1_1280.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/b46aaa7632d40ee4dc723a85b75766a4/tumblr_n14cnsM9j01sn8si8o1_1280.jpg

[CADreaming]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/e6c8eebe6010a514f8f2c53bce846b01/tumblr_n0tdzwxdgf1spp67io1_250.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/495ec6e7ec189aac63a1bacf1bbca44a/tumblr_n0abdsYYLe1tqfexco2_1280.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/f16448a5dfb4e7d9197c26a1d2b1ce84/tumblr_mhktu3MwvB1qck5fxo1_250.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/7248dac970931dc99dd5238cfae93917/tumblr_mhktu3MwvB1qck5fxo2_250.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/2b4e4a07b595f1e1396c92202a358947/tumblr_mhktu3MwvB1qck5fxo4_250.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/0aa24a92e771d052d836b8b795815bbd/tumblr_mhktu3MwvB1qck5fxo3_250.gif

[CADreaming]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/55c6db501bf351987a98ae3c14f0487a/tumblr_myw8vlBRsx1spkyi3o1_1280.jpg

[CADreaming]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/1bec93a787fb528beff3a252b63a505d/tumblr_mylborCIGe1t0ock0o2_250.gif

http://31.media.tumblr.com/2a1537680fb663646629e80ff713105c/tumblr_mynpf32S4w1sn8si8o1_250.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/69666769e71b6a729c204d8b81e81dbe/tumblr_mmgemhgjva1qck5fxo1_400.gif

http://24.media.tumblr.com/bc3a668f466c9e40c6bfe4fa899e90e4/tumblr_myc12iZkOy1r3vfqyo7_250.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/fa8e534b859fb6673a364f6cbd5e3829/tumblr_muqqksDeOu1r3vfqyo4_250.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/0ade91d9d0e77ddd12eb7aac2795e988/tumblr_mxt1y5UpTD1qkmpi3o1_400.gif

[Rumour0323]

[QUOTE=CADreaming;1121224]http://31.media.tumblr.com/1bec93a787fb528beff3a252b63a505d/tumblr_mylborCIGe1t0ock0o2_250.gif

Where is this one from? I've never seen it before.

[MoonSister75]

No I'm sorry I don't. I was doing the same thing. I was looking for something and watched like 50 interviews. I want to say it was the ones that she did in 2009 in Australia, but she was pretty angry in those so I'm not sure. Sorry.

I was struck at how matter of factly she states sometimes that at some point in the future they will be together. Somewhere else she made the statement about them moving back to SF, not her, them!! Very strange.

Thanks anyway, at least I'm certain I wasn't imagining it now ;) I'm not sure I'll ever find it again, as and I don't want to re-watch them all.

[MoonSister75]

^^^These are all great!! But I particularly love this section, and the top one is my favourite :nod:




http://25.media.tumblr.com/f16448a5dfb4e7d9197c26a1d2b1ce84/tumblr_mhktu3MwvB1qck5fxo1_250.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/7248dac970931dc99dd5238cfae93917/tumblr_mhktu3MwvB1qck5fxo2_250.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/2b4e4a07b595f1e1396c92202a358947/tumblr_mhktu3MwvB1qck5fxo4_250.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/0aa24a92e771d052d836b8b795815bbd/tumblr_mhktu3MwvB1qck5fxo3_250.gif

[vivfox]

First of all, you're witty… really. You know what they say about those who get to try out feeling big & powerful behind the keyboard. :xoxo:

I never did get any real quotes, sadly. I suppose it's because…. she doesn't have any. She *did* quote me- only... they were made up quotes. So, it's too bad it's like this… there's probably not much point in discussing anything at all if people are on such a power trip that they can't even have an honest conversation. No wonder it's so freaking slow here.

The conversation between you and Michele was very exciting to read. Both of you discussing your viewpoints. You both provided so much insight and information that it was exhausting to read, to absorb. But I kept reading as I'm sure many Ledgies did.Then all of a sudden out of nowhere you simply give up and then because you ran out of ways to prove your points, you insulted Michele. Why would you do that?
If you think it is slow around here now, you just wait until the FM tour starts. This is the place people will be running to for up to the minute news feeds.The Ledge rocks. And you should keep on rocking also. Keep discussing, keep debating. We love that. We eat those words up.Never give up or throw in the towel.Gotta keep rocking and be a juke box hero with stars in your eyes.

[Rumour0323]

Thanks anyway, at least I'm certain I wasn't imagining it now ;) I'm not sure I'll ever find it again, as and I don't want to re-watch them all.

I FOUND IT!!! Start at the 56.00 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Tlrz-8yOA&feature=player_embedded

[MoonSister75]

I FOUND IT!!! Start at the 56.00 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Tlrz-8yOA&feature=player_embedded

Fantastic!! I never would have guessed it was that interview. Amazing how that little part really stuck in my mind. Thanks so much. The mystery is solved! :thumbsup::)

[CADreaming]

https://24.media.tumblr.com/fe7c4fd84a96962682cf30a43935e0cd/tumblr_n1bzv030Sz1qk5ma6o3_r1_400.jpg

[CADreaming]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/1bec93a787fb528beff3a252b63a505d/tumblr_mylborCIGe1t0ock0o2_250.gif

Where is this one from? I've never seen it before.


Pretty sure it's from the RRHOF induction in 1998.

[Rumour0323]

Pretty sure it's from the RRHOF induction in 1998.

I thought it might be the Heart Association thing he did with her.

[Rumour0323]

^^^These are all great!! But I particularly love this section, and the top one is my favourite :nod:

I cannot find this interview anywhere. I find all the other ones from that day but I can't find this exchange. Does anyone have the link?

[nicole21290]

I cannot find this interview anywhere. I find all the other ones from that day but I can't find this exchange. Does anyone have the link?

Can't remember which of the interviews it was right now (and can't check - am leaving for church in a minute) but all the interviews (so far as I know) are here if you want to find it.

http://buckinghamnicksff.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/january-2013-interviews-mick-lindsey.html

[singertobe]

Pretty sure it's from the RRHOF induction in 1998.

You're right. It is

[ragrsrocalot]

https://24.media.tumblr.com/fe7c4fd84a96962682cf30a43935e0cd/tumblr_n1bzv030Sz1qk5ma6o3_r1_400.jpg

Thank you for this.:thumbsup:

[CADreaming]

I thought it might be the Heart Association thing he did with her.

Nope. Here's the video. It was after they did "Landslide" for their induction performance.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZVV8jhA81N8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[CADreaming]

https://24.media.tumblr.com/fe7c4fd84a96962682cf30a43935e0cd/tumblr_n1bzv030Sz1qk5ma6o3_r1_400.jpg

Thank you for this.:thumbsup:

:wavey: You're welcome.

Reminds me of this old pic:

http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/bn/images/SnLLBBTM01.jpg

[ragrsrocalot]

^ Yeah, the double arm hug. Love it. Although, I love the fact that she is talking in his ear in the other one. :laugh: :wavey:

[CADreaming]

^ Yeah, the double arm hug. Love it. Although, I love the fact that she is talking in his ear in the other one. :laugh: :wavey:

That is cute.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/c6337f8da3c6faa5898b7296498bf37c/tumblr_ml7fi9KNLz1qhd4dno1_250.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/21c2ff4fa30979c21382de0b82f06504/tumblr_ml7fi9KNLz1qhd4dno2_250.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/4748d69fedc1c678b96d9b7b7424818a/tumblr_ml7fi9KNLz1qhd4dno4_250.gif

[nicole21290]

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/d122433eaf7d3abc772eafb47f9195ef_zps37c5d693.jpg

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/692482d76ef906039465f737c1e042aa_zpsd6c18e06.jpg

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/25fd44b8d588e04d342934c1af23da37_zps8a158a23.jpg

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/bd0a52c79898170fa562dd5db1f54825_zps02ee913e.jpg

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/755628f9908244ff7572c5c49c8553a2_zpsb3cc5409.jpg

[vivfox]

^^^^OMG that is a lot of examples.

[nicole21290]

^^^^OMG that is a lot of examples.

Well, quite. :D I MAY have repeated a picture or two or included a few stray Landslide pictures accidentally but otherwise... Seriously, just be glad I limited images to coming out for the encores and the hug at the end, lol. If I'd also included all the Landslide moments, Sara moments, etc, OR included images from other tours as well!? EEK!!!! #lovefestonly

[vivfox]

Well, quite. :D I MAY have repeated a picture or two or included a few stray Landslide pictures accidentally but otherwise... Seriously, just be glad I limited images to coming out for the encores and the hug at the end, lol. If I'd also included all the Landslide moments, Sara moments, etc, OR included images from other tours as well!? EEK!!!! #lovefestonly

You my dear are a shipper to the umpth degree.:xoxo:

[nicole21290]

You my dear are a shipper to the umpth degree.:xoxo:

I just follow their shining example. ;) They're the ones who watch a film or hear a song and immediately relate it to their own relationship, lol.

[Lee]

Well, holy cow, that is a lot of intimacy there! I like the Lindsey whole body hug & the Stevie leg up one. That's what I do when my husband hugs me like that, the one leg comes up. Must be a woman thing. :laugh:

Lee :)

[MoonSister75]

^^^^ Some great pics Nicole - overwhelming evidence of a lovefest :laugh:

and this is so sweet :]


http://25.media.tumblr.com/c6337f8da3c6faa5898b7296498bf37c/tumblr_ml7fi9KNLz1qhd4dno1_250.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/21c2ff4fa30979c21382de0b82f06504/tumblr_ml7fi9KNLz1qhd4dno2_250.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/4748d69fedc1c678b96d9b7b7424818a/tumblr_ml7fi9KNLz1qhd4dno4_250.gif

[Rumour0323]

^^^^ Some great pics Nicole - overwhelming evidence of a lovefest :laugh:

and this is so sweet :]

It's adorable. That is the happiest I have seen her in a long time. No one makes her smile like that. I am so glad they are in a good place again.

[Di_amondgirl]

Beautiful pics!!! So in love and so Happy now.

[MoonSister75]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/c6337f8da3c6faa5898b7296498bf37c/tumblr_ml7fi9KNLz1qhd4dno1_250.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/21c2ff4fa30979c21382de0b82f06504/tumblr_ml7fi9KNLz1qhd4dno2_250.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/4748d69fedc1c678b96d9b7b7424818a/tumblr_ml7fi9KNLz1qhd4dno4_250.gif

For anyone else who loves the above gifs, the full section is also at 1.22 of this very sweet Sad Angel video: :xoxo::]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/v35vgvQirCc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[StreetAngel86]

um ... smelling salts please
i cannot wake up
glorious post
thank you :xoxo:

[nicole21290]

I've made a new tumblr which is basically dedicated to the 2013 tour. I may end up posting videos and so on there but at the moment it's simply a collection of over 500 photographs of Stevie and Lindsey from last year - no individual shots, just fantastic togetherness. If you're wanting to look at Sara shots in particular or Landslide ones, for example, just click on the 'tags' link and you should be able to narrow down what you're looking at. :)
xoxo

http://buckinghamnicks2013.tumblr.com/

[ragrsrocalot]

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/ragesrocalot/11-06-09.jpg (http://s977.photobucket.com/user/ragesrocalot/media/11-06-09.jpg.html)

[iamnotafraid]

^ Stevie Kardashian.

[nicole21290]

^ Stevie Kardashian.

No complaints from her other half, tbh.

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/6b1dbad99297dcac14104e1968f7165e_zps47c5d578.jpg

[fleetwoodmeg]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/1bec93a787fb528beff3a252b63a505d/tumblr_mylborCIGe1t0ock0o2_250.gif

http://31.media.tumblr.com/2a1537680fb663646629e80ff713105c/tumblr_mynpf32S4w1sn8si8o1_250.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/69666769e71b6a729c204d8b81e81dbe/tumblr_mmgemhgjva1qck5fxo1_400.gif

http://24.media.tumblr.com/bc3a668f466c9e40c6bfe4fa899e90e4/tumblr_myc12iZkOy1r3vfqyo7_250.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/fa8e534b859fb6673a364f6cbd5e3829/tumblr_muqqksDeOu1r3vfqyo4_250.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/0ade91d9d0e77ddd12eb7aac2795e988/tumblr_mxt1y5UpTD1qkmpi3o1_400.gif
Love love love this!!!!

[MoonSister75]

^^^ fleetwoodmeg - someone helped me to find the interview you were asking about (I think it was back in January). Its the one where Stevie is predicting what might happen with her and Lindsey's friendship, when they are in their 70's. Its from page 74 in this thread.

I FOUND IT!!! Start at the 56.00 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Tlrz-8yOA&feature=player_embedded

[fleetwoodmeg]

That's so weird! I came on today :) but I keep clicking on it and it says it can't load- ill keep trying! Thanks!!!

[MoonSister75]

That's so weird! I came on today :) but I keep clicking on it and it says it can't load- ill keep trying! Thanks!!!

yes I spotted your post in this thread today, and it reminded me of the interview you had asked about :) I'm not sure why it can't load?


try this:

starting at 56.00

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/k_Tlrz-8yOA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ancientqueen94]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/0ade91d9d0e77ddd12eb7aac2795e988/tumblr_mxt1y5UpTD1qkmpi3o1_400.gif

this is amazing <3

[fleetwoodmeg]

yes I spotted your post in this thread today, and it reminded me of the interview you had asked about :) I'm not sure why it can't load?


try this:

starting at 56.00

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/k_Tlrz-8yOA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yes that worked! Thank you :)

[CADreaming]

Love love love this!!!!

this is amazing <3

:D :wavey:

[fleetwoodmeg]

Where did that picture come from 3rd up from the bottom where it seems as if they are kissing on the mouth ?

[fleetwoodmeg]

Where did that picture come from 3rd up from the bottom where it seems as if they are kissing on the mouth ?;)

[CADreaming]

Where did that picture come from 3rd up from the bottom where it seems as if they are kissing on the mouth ?;)

Opening night of the Say You Will tour, Columbus OH. May, 2003.

[nicole21290]

Thought it might be nice to give this thread a little bump. Have some 'neutral' Stevie and Lindsey from 2009.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/a5861df170176282321cfbcd41e44ead/tumblr_n29akpeO5n1sn8si8o1_250.gif
http://37.media.tumblr.com/6b71ef49d92a51bd867f02f0f12bbcc4/tumblr_n29akpeO5n1sn8si8o2_250.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/8524e9322f9b0932a957f52e2ed9d351/tumblr_n29akpeO5n1sn8si8o5_250.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/d5bf51a12d7e87ef2b3b0803a1523320/tumblr_n29akpeO5n1sn8si8o6_250.gif

http://37.media.tumblr.com/7e922291538bb398c8aa0b4ab951e061/tumblr_n293kv1x5r1sn8si8o1_250.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/221b58ed54208d2b37773ba81a10b77a/tumblr_n293kv1x5r1sn8si8o2_250.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/206e246a74b9eee63f066de95e82683c/tumblr_n293kv1x5r1sn8si8o3_250.gif
http://25.media.tumblr.com/51cd49f9493b5c080f8ddd7e2fe339aa/tumblr_n293kv1x5r1sn8si8o4_250.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/eea22dab8242de8eaa8253fe3bd2a55c/tumblr_n293kv1x5r1sn8si8o5_250.gif
http://24.media.tumblr.com/e547b14a73758a0a21b0ed44ac44765d/tumblr_n293kv1x5r1sn8si8o6_250.gif

[brickney723]

gorgeous video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eahfifvctXM

[SadAngel86]

gorgeous video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eahfifvctXM

Can someone tell me what performances these are from? I've never seen them.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/vteen2002/StevieLinds_zps036d1f5d.png

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/vteen2002/StevieLinds2_zps6060bfe7.png

[ragrsrocalot]

Can someone tell me what performances these are from? I've never seen them.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/vteen2002/StevieLinds_zps036d1f5d.png

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/vteen2002/StevieLinds2_zps6060bfe7.png

The first one is from the Brit Awards @ 3: 44

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/z1ax4RYeT9M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The second one, I'm not sure. My guess would be the the inauguration.

[SadAngel86]

The first one is from the Brit Awards @ 3: 44

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/z1ax4RYeT9M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The second one, I'm not sure. My guess would be the the inauguration.

Thanks. And you were right about the second one. It was the inauguration.

[ragrsrocalot]

^ Your welcome, and okay cool.:thumbsup:

[brickney723]

S&L named 5th most intense celebrity couple of all time. 5th?

http://www.papermag.com/2014/04/crazy_couples.php

[secondhandchain]

All we really need from Stevie for this album is 3 good songs.

1) take "The Dealer" and record that with a "Gypsy" like ending. She can repeat "run away, yeah I would run away" while Lindsey comes up with some hooky guitar line and the band has some great backround harmonies.

2) a song about your Mom

3) a song about Christine returning

4) add backround vocals to the rest of the songs....voila your done~!

[CADreaming]

S&L named 5th most intense celebrity couple of all time. 5th?

http://www.papermag.com/2014/04/crazy_couples.php


http://www.buckinghamnicks.net/bn/images/SnLTangoAnnoyed.jpg
"That’s just the way we are - Mr. and Mrs. Intense.” -Stevie, 1983

[BlueDenimLamp]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>I don't give a **** if he's married - that right there is love - love never dies. <a href="https://twitter.com/SulamithWulfing">@SulamithWulfing</a> <a href="http://t.co/vraiuKLGkf">pic.twitter.com/vraiuKLGkf</a></p>&mdash; Rhiannon Henderson (@loverhiannon) <a href="https://twitter.com/loverhiannon/statuses/460060442023317505">April 26, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[nicole21290]

I've uploaded a few songs from Fleetwood Mac's 2003 gig at MSG because they weren't already on YouTube (HORROR) and some people (HORROR) haven't seen them. Thought I'd link to my two favourites here. For reasons...

Tusk - for the way Lindsey runs his hands over her back and through her hair. Intimacy 101, to be honest.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/J8MJGWxNE3Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Silver Springs - for the lyrical addition of "STILL I am a fool"...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/NVQ9G41AiHg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Goodbye Baby, Say You Will, and Landslide are also on my channel.

[AliceLover]

I've uploaded a few songs from Fleetwood Mac's 2003 gig at MSG because they weren't already on YouTube (HORROR) and some people (HORROR) haven't seen them. Thought I'd link to my two favourites here. For reasons...

Tusk - for the way Lindsey runs his hands over her back and through her hair. Intimacy 101, to be honest.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/J8MJGWxNE3Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Silver Springs - for the lyrical addition of "STILL I am a fool"...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/NVQ9G41AiHg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Goodbye Baby, Say You Will, and Landslide are also on my channel.

Could you post Stand Back? I have this boot on VHS.

[DESTINYRU!ES]

Love is intimacy or in to me see . When these two can finally look into each other's eyes and say I'm sorry I lost us to the world round us you were and are more important then all distraction to be able to be vulnerable and weak and receive comforting love. These physical things are just that. Watch for the shift it's coming won't be surprised to here Stevie calling lindsey her husband and no use of the prefix ex.

[brickney723]

Maybe this is old news, but I just ran across this pic- I guess this is hanging in the Hard Rock cafe in DC- a personal letter sent from Stevie to Lindsey circa 1982.

[nicole21290]

Maybe this is old news, but I just ran across this pic- I guess this is hanging in the Hard Rock cafe in DC- a personal letter sent from Stevie to Lindsey circa 1982.

Thanks for that! I saw someone tweet about it on Twitter yesterday but it wasn't as easy to read as this copy, lol. Love it. <3

[BTFLCHLD]

all cute with each other


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/imagejpg1_zps8dd1683c.jpg

[DESTINYRU!ES]

When I look at the above photo and then the artisty of the cover of buckingham nicks, it makes me sad to see that the art of photography is dead to digital. "E everything is real quick cuts and people don't even think" yes I can see that Stevie who I m quoting from destiny rules.

[secret love]

When I look at the above photo and then the artisty of the cover of buckingham nicks, it makes me sad to see that the art of photography is dead to digital. "E everything is real quick cuts and people don't even think" yes I can see that Stevie who I m quoting from destiny rules.

I disagree. Have you seen the album artwork for Pink's The Truth About Love album? Not to mention The Truth About Love Live in Melbourne DVD. That is not "quick cuts"...that is the result of photo shoots that take hours to do. Not all digital photography is boring: depends on the individual photographer.

As a side note, now that I've mentioned Pink, there is an artist who does not neglect Australia or New Zealand. FM only ever do max 12 AUS/NZ dates. Pink did about fifty last year.

[DESTINYRU!ES]

Secret love you are entitled to your opinion and I mine.

[WildHearted]

<img src="https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/l/t1.0-9/10511338_786092731424886_3351081099289123157_n.jpg">

<img src="https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10479091_786092811424878_7871527420643133832_n.jpg">

Clothed BN outtakes. Found them on tumblr.

[michelej1]

Clothed BN outtakes. Found them on tumblr.

Nice. Lindsey's hair is something else.

Michele

[nicole21290]

Woke up and saw them. Thought I was still asleep and dreaming, to be honest. They're amazing and sort of hilarious what with her blouse, his hair, the pose/s, everything about them. I'm very enamoured of the one where they're smiling/laughing in the last of the contact sheets. Adorable.

http://37.media.tumblr.com/7b74b1f1de95786af98b258df144e90e/tumblr_n7u8ypUbkT1rxi6b3o2_1280.jpg

http://38.media.tumblr.com/0cc6e7cb02b725a10ee48d85615422e7/tumblr_n7u8ypUbkT1rxi6b3o3_1280.jpg

http://37.media.tumblr.com/4f372dbe517ac3806f1bb33ca29fe82d/tumblr_n7u8ypUbkT1rxi6b3o4_1280.jpg

http://38.media.tumblr.com/7232666d4a19075908910562c5fca7f8/tumblr_n7u8ypUbkT1rxi6b3o5_1280.jpg

http://38.media.tumblr.com/214c51f7d8547c21ed8189f4f1a1e39d/tumblr_n7u8ypUbkT1rxi6b3o6_1280.jpg

[CADreaming]

https://38.media.tumblr.com/f6b67906d4ca87cab476b30c9679a0fc/tumblr_naqs41qNSN1tg9sl9o1_500.jpg

:p

[fairydust75]

https://38.media.tumblr.com/f6b67906d4ca87cab476b30c9679a0fc/tumblr_naqs41qNSN1tg9sl9o1_500.jpg

:p

I saw this and my first thought was... Oh it's Stevie with Don Henley....whoopsie:sorry:

[jbrownsjr]

I saw this and my first thought was... Oh it's Stevie with Don Henley....whoopsie:sorry:

haha.. that cracked me up.. :p

[CADreaming]

I saw this and my first thought was... Oh it's Stevie with Don Henley....whoopsie:sorry:

Wow you type good for not being able to read. :D

[fairydust75]

Wow you type good for not being able to read. :D

Wow! You don't read so well either, since I said when I first saw it...as in before I read Richard's caption:D

[jbrownsjr]

Wow! You don't read so well either, since I said when I first saw it...as in before I read Richard's caption:D

Too much fairy dust... ;)

[Sapphire Girl]

because i'm mean... here's new pic:

http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i399/ellellew/LKfromtrackbytrack2.jpg

His right eye is open. He has the fingers of his right hand folded down at the medial joints and not entwined in her hair.

[Villavic]

His right eye is open. He has the fingers of his right hand folded down at the medial joints and not entwined in her hair.

I couldn't find the original post for that picture to understand the context, but she is not Stevie, is she?

This thread is from 10 years ago. How many things have changed. Today, the title seems so out of place or disgusting, except that looking all those old photos always seems nice to me. But just because, as poet Jorge Marique said, Any past time was better.

[Sapphire Girl]

I couldn't find the original post for that picture to understand the context, but she is not Stevie, is she?

No, she is not Stevie. If she was, then his fingers would be entwined in her hair and his palm would be on the back of her head.

[HomerMcvie]

Good lort. Sweet baby jebus.