New Album not til Spring 2011

[Ghost_Tracker]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

I think I was too unpleasant to you, Sir, in my reply to what you took the time writing to reply to me.
Of course, you can write whatever you want to, and I didn't have to get all ballistic over it. This is a fan community, not a battlefield.
I won't do it again, I apologize.
Write more, Scunkles!

If Pat Benatar says that "Love is a Battlefield," and The Ledge is not a battlefield, then does that mean that a fan community is not love? It's one of the great mysteries of life. I think maybe I'm going to have to consult a professional logician about this. . . .

[sorcerer999]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

. . . .


I totally agree.

I'm honestly , for real confused by all the negative comments in this thread.
An album is only one thing; it's a product. Along with that product, as always, are complex legal matters that need to be worked through. It also needs to be literally manufactured, physically; and details such as distribution and marketing need to be worked out. And who's going to do the cover art, and how much money does THAT person want, and how much time do they need to make it? More negotiations. Who's going to do the Post-Production Engineering? Chris Lord-Alge? How much does THAT person want? Is that person currently available?
I'm flabbergasted that people would put the "blame" on Stevie for things 100% beyond her control; especially since we've seen this many times before.
Be patient, folks, these things take time.

Agreed. Patience is a virtue...and as excited as Stevie, Dave Stewart, and others are about this record, I think we're in for a great album!

Also, let us not forget that after the album is mixed and mastered, it has to go to the marketing people at Reprise. Those guys listen to the album for about a month or so before even making decisions on singles, promotions, release dates, etc.

The Spring time frame isn't all that surprising. As much as I was rooting for this fall/winter, I will be happy whenever we get it.

[Ghost_Tracker]

Originally Posted by sorcerer999

Agreed. Patience is a virtue...and as excited as Stevie, Dave Stewart, and others are about this record, I think we're in for a great album!

Also, let us not forget that after the album is mixed and mastered, it has to go to the marketing people at Reprise. Those guys listen to the album for about a month or so before even making decisions on singles, promotions, release dates, etc.

The Spring time frame isn't all that surprising. As much as I was rooting for this fall/winter, I will be happy whenever we get it.

I'd like to uhm . . . err . . . mention that I just took the time to read the thread in more detail, and only then realized that people weren't being anywhere near as "harsh" towards Stevie as I had thought they were at first blush. So uhm - err - I'm going to go hide now. I admitedly jumped the gun a bit.

[skuncles]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

[QUOTE=skuncles;905831]

Ugh. Again, with your vast command of the obvious, I see your points, but again, your reference of "1982" was patronizing and distorted. Dude, seriously. I was trying to present what might work to prevent the first week highest chart position, never to recover, and it is possible in 2010 and 2011.
1999 was not 28 years ago. Eleven years is damned ancient-enough history, but it showed how someone with no chance, initially, in The States, overcame the odds. A cd called 'Stevie Nicks' or 'Italian Summer' or whatever does not need months of advance notice to inform the public, who could forget after months both the title and the
new cd.
.

[/QUOTE]

I am not twisting ANYTHING, as you said I am simply pointing out the obvious. But obviously you didn't get why I mentioned 1982. So at the risk of overstating the obvious yet again, in 1982 Stevie was on top of the world musically. If she had released an album in October she would have been all over MTV and other outlets talking about the album, by the time the album came out in March the desire for it would have been at a fever pitch. I have no idea how old you are, but if you were around at the time, you'll recall this type of hype. The idea you presented for this album would have been perfect had it been 1982. What worked then will not work now. That's why I mentioned 1982.
All I'm doing is throwing out some reality. You can say the album will be out in October and the tour will be huge and she'll have huge hits and basically a renewed career. But don't be surprised when it doesn't happen.
As for bringing up Heart, I mention them because many Stevie fans are also Heart fans. They have been out promoting their upcoming album, and from what I've heard of it it's one of their best. But it will still probably debut high and then drop sharply. This is WITH heavy promotion that's been going on for at least the past four months. So far outside of the Stevie online fan world, no one even knows Stevie is working on anything. You can bet that many people going to see her this month don't even know she's working on anything.
Finally I wouldn't block or ignore you, why should I? I'm just presenting the facts, good or bad, or as you say "the obvious". I don't see how I've twisted anything you or anyone else has said. Sometimes though the obvious isn't so obvious to some.

[Nikolaj]

OK, Skuncles, I had it coming, you're right.
I'd hoped you see in time, but figured you might not but I sure tried
I've issued you three apologies before you saw them. One is in your Private Messages, the second is about four posts below my original snippy reply with a 'Sorry Skuncles' title above the message, and the third was an edit I wrote at the top of my original reply, which 25 minutes ago I added an 'edit edit edit' in bold at the top and apologized to you. So, that was 3 apologies.
Here's 4.
I'm sorry. Enjoy The Ledge, as you should. Write whatever you want. As you should
(-as nobody, certainly not me, needs to tell you).

[skuncles]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

OK, Skuncles, I had it coming, you're right.
I'd hoped you see in time, but figured you might not but I sure tried
I've issued you three apologies before you saw them. One is in your Private Messages, the second is about four posts below my original snippy reply with a 'Sorry Skuncles' title above the message, and the third was an edit I wrote at the top of my original reply, which 25 minutes ago I added an 'edit edit edit' in bold at the top and apologized to you. So, that was 3 apologies.
Here's 4.
I'm sorry. Enjoy The Ledge, as you should. Write whatever you want. As you should
(-as nobody, certainly not me, needs to tell you).

I just saw the apologies and as I said privately, no need to apologize for anything.

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

I just think Stevie could have a killer song they have to lead off with, to sell the album, and it will find an audience and give her the hit she hasn't had in 20 years, I just think she has it in her, and if the song is that strong, I believe it will give the cd legs.
Hopeful? Maybe. Unrealistic? Maybe. Possible? Yes.
Even more hopeful : Then, a 2nd can't miss song, Hejira, I just think she has it in her. If that happens, the cd bullets again, with the tour going strong riding a 'comeback craze' like we haven't seen for a long time. What can I say... I've bought the advance hype of Dave Wild, Stevie and Dave S.
Or you and all the others can be right. I just think it can be done, because Stevie has more musical artistic respect than Cher, and I don't think that Stevie's had a major 'comeback' since 'The Dance' and I really think it's her turn. I think she should be able to go platinum.
And yes, it'll be something of a miracle if I'm correct.

The biggest problem with your optimism is it overlooks some very unavoidable and unfortunate truths. Top 40 stations just aren't going to push new songs by a woman in her 60s. It just isn't going to happen. It's ageism, sexism, and it's terrible... but it's true. At the same time, DJs/radio stations have to push what their demographic wants, and what's best for their own bottom line. Marketing a 60 something year old woman to an audience who is primarily in their teens, 20s, and very early 30s just won't fly. With every passing year, Stevie's niche audience gets smaller too, especially those who are willing to buy new material from her. It's been so long since she was truly famous, and had true pull/power in the industry too. Like HejiraNYC pointed out, most of the record buying public these days has no idea who Stevie is, and upon hearing the name, would probably assume it was a man's.

Like HejiraNYC also pointed out, Stevie is no Madonna or Cher either: she isn't a musical chameleon, she doesn't follow trends, she doesn't record dancy/youthful albums, she just stays true to her style. And style changes on a whim.

Above all the rest of that, Stevie doesn't have a record company who aggressively markets her either. I think Trouble In Shangri La and Say You Will could have been SO much bigger had Reprise set up bigger advertising campaigns. Reprise just doesn't do much of anything for Stevie or the Mac: they don't do TV or radio commericals, they don't do print ads in periodicals (except for Very Best Of packages), they don't chose smart singles AT ALL... then they don't push them either. I think Stevie had SO much potential with TISL that was simply flushed because Reprise relegated her to a third-tier has-been act. Granted, they made 2 extremely beautiful videos for TISL (which they didn't even bother with for SYW), but the videos weren't for strong singles at ALL. Planets should have been Stevie's TISL single, and Destiny Rules should have been the single for SYW. As unfortunate as it is, I don't expect Stevie's new album to even go Gold... and I doubt it'll even crack the top 10. I guess time will tell, and I dearly hope I'm proven wrong with all this.

[Nikolaj]

Louie, there isn't one thing you wrote just above that isn't true.
One possibility-- what about rock stations? Madonna and Cher never have had rock radio play, Stevie has.
If a really good new Stevie song becomes a big enough rock song, then, my thought was that it could cross over to other formats, not necessarily Top 40, that'd be toughest. But a great song could and should get her new airplay on the classic rock stations which still do play her, though they sure didn't help with airplay for TISL or SYW. The majority of their playlists seems 70s and 80s, but I hear new material, a bit. What if it were a lot?-- for a great new song I'm droning on that I feel we will get from her.
Adult contemporary would play almost anything by Stevie, still, and there is more than one 'AC' chart in Billboard now, reading that magazine is almost like reading a map now, it's changed so.
But, obviously, your observations were all valid.
My gut tells me if it 'rocks' like it's said to, it will find a larger audience than anything she's done since the 80s. But yes, the 62 thing will be an obstacle at Top 40. What if she comes up with an 'Edge of 17'-ish rocker but only better (!) that gets the classic rock stations crazy, she could cross over somewhere, no?

[DestinyRules]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Above all the rest of that, Stevie doesn't have a record company who aggressively markets her either. I think Trouble In Shangri La and Say You Will could have been SO much bigger had Reprise set up bigger advertising campaigns. Reprise just doesn't do much of anything for Stevie or the Mac: they don't do TV or radio commericals, they don't do print ads in periodicals (except for Very Best Of packages), they don't chose smart singles AT ALL... then they don't push them either.

That problem is not exclusive to Stevie or to Fleetwood Mac.

I buy a lot of most recent releases from classic rock acts, so I feel pretty comfortable in saying that record companies often pick weak singles from new releases and then don't push them.

When Heart released Jupiter's Darling back in 2004, the two singles were "The Perfect Goodbye" and "The Oldest Story In The World," neither of which were knock you out songs in my opinion. The song that should have been their single was "Make Me", which can grab the listener better than either of the two singles.

Back when Lynyrd Skynyrd put out Vicious Cycle, their single was "Red, White & Blue," which sounds languid. "The Way" would have been a much stronger choice, and it would have sent a much more powerful message. Plus, the song kicks ass.

Bob Seger's Face The Promise had as its single "Wait For Me," which was a blah choice. The title track, "Real Mean Bottle" with Kid Rock and even "Wreck This Heart" would have been stronger choices if anyone was serious about screaming "Bob's back and still rockin'!"

Taking Stevie's Trouble in Shangri-la example, "Fall From Grace" should have been the single. A former roommate who was heavily into music and wanting to get into the industry was telling me I should call A&R people and tell them to push that as a single and have the Blockbuster Awards rendition with Sheryl Crow as the video. And he's NOT a dyed in the wool Stevie fan by any stretch.

As far as Say You Will goes, I agree that "Destiny Rules" should have been the single. I'd have also followed it up with "Everybody Finds Out" from Stevie and "Miranda" from Lindsey.

[Nikolaj]

^
I loved all the info from DestinyRules, and agreed with the cds I had that she mentioned. (If I'm wrong and you're a guy, there I go again being wrong!)
Is it that rock stations are ageist, too? Why not pick the most rocking tracks, maybe because they're hoping to cross over to 'mainstream' and don't want to rock too hard? Seger's 'Face The Promise' deserved some play. Ann can still rock harder than most singers. It's so weird.

I just read that Heart is covering 'Gimme Shelter' this tour. Now that intrigues me, and I think I have to leave Stevie-land and go search to at least hear it, if not see it. Like one of my all-time favorite songs, and now Ann Wilson is daring at this stage in her career to tackle it. Tell me she's great on it, DestinyRules, if you've heard it. For now, I'm gonna go surf for it.
Edit- Found it. Ann sounds good, but are those new guitarists? They play like quaaludes felt. Err, not that my teen self ever came across a quaalude or two. Much. Okay, twice in 1981. Then, they seemed to disappear. Oh well. Better off.
...Even It Up' sounded like a dirge: 'Slowin It Down'!

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Above all the rest of that, Stevie doesn't have a record company who aggressively markets her either. I think Trouble In Shangri La and Say You Will could have been SO much bigger had Reprise set up bigger advertising campaigns. Reprise just doesn't do much of anything for Stevie or the Mac: they don't do TV or radio commericals, they don't do print ads in periodicals (except for Very Best Of packages), they don't chose smart singles AT ALL... then they don't push them either. I think Stevie had SO much potential with TISL that was simply flushed because Reprise relegated her to a third-tier has-been act. Granted, they made 2 extremely beautiful videos for TISL (which they didn't even bother with for SYW), but the videos weren't for strong singles at ALL. Planets should have been Stevie's TISL single, and Destiny Rules should have been the single for SYW. As unfortunate as it is, I don't expect Stevie's new album to even go Gold... and I doubt it'll even crack the top 10. I guess time will tell, and I dearly hope I'm proven wrong with all this.

For all the bashing of WB/Reprise, I can't really say that they didn't push TISL as far as it could go. Like you said, there were a couple of gorgeous, high-budget videos that were in pretty heavy rotation on VH1 at the time. Stevie was also the VH1 Artist of the Month and people who pre-ordered were able to stream the album in advance of the release date. They created some hot remixes of POTU and pushed them at the clubs. Stevie also hit the talk show circuit hard and was also given some made-up award at a made-up award ceremony just to get the advanced buzz going. Not to mention all of the print ads and the printed press, etc. At the end of the day, I think TISL did about as well as it could. I think it would have been one thing if Stevie had spent the years leading up to TISL really trying to reconnect with her audience as a solo act. But she didn't. As I mentioned before, she has done a piss-poor job of curating a fanbase, which is compounded by the fact that she doesn't crank out a new album every few years. It had been seven long years since her last album, and it would have been unrealistic for everyone to automatically assume that she could pick up right where she left off and start selling platinum albums again. Undoubtedly, TISL had some great songs on it, but at the end of the day, I do not think it was for the masses. And sadly, I think it's going to be even tougher today, and again it's 100% her own fault. You can't go 10 years without releasing new material and expect everything to be the way it was. Ask Kate Bush about how her last album sold. Peter Gabriel too.

[Nikolaj]

^
I agree. The label did what they could in all the ways you mentioned, but 'Every Day' and 'Sorcerer'- in my opinion, never should have been singles, so were a huge waste of money filming, neither song represented the cd well, to me.
FFG, Planets, or Candlebright could have been killer videos, and maybe, hits. I even thought 'Too Far From Texas' had a lot of potential that went unexplored.
Like DestinyRules wrote, the wrong songs often seem to be chosen.
Well, at least POTU was a #1 Dance Hit. ( I confess, I hated the most popular remix by Tracy). One of the others I liked better, but loved the extended album version on the cd single.

[Nikolaj]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

If Pat Benatar says that "Love is a Battlefield," and The Ledge is not a battlefield, then does that mean that a fan community is not love? It's one of the great mysteries of life. I think maybe I'm going to have to consult a professional logician about this. . . .

"then does that mean a fan community is not love?"
You write, I can tell.
More than here, I mean.
Anyway, there's some kind of beauty in that line you chose to share. Thanks!

[DestinyRules]

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

I loved all the info from DestinyRules, and agreed with the cds I had that she mentioned. (If I'm wrong and you're a guy, there I go again being wrong!)

I'm a guy, but thanks for the compliment about the info.

I'd suspect modern radio is ageist. If you're considered a classic artist, radio stations might throw you a bone by mentioning your new record and maybe playing one of the new songs once in a rare while. However, most of the time, your new stuff's going to get completely ignored on the radio and it's barely going to make a dent on the charts.

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

Why not pick the most rocking tracks, maybe because they're hoping to cross over to 'mainstream' and don't want to rock too hard?

It's almost as if rock radio is trying to pretend the old artists are just out for a buck and can't write the great stuff they did back in their heyday. And when there's a song that proves them wrong, they usually won't play it except in very rare circumstances.

I heard secondhand from my then-roommate that a classic rock station played three Stevie songs in a row during TISL's run, and only one of the three was a new song. My roommate actually told me the order: "Stand Back", "Fall From Grace", "Edge of Seventeen." Then there was the time I heard "Fall From Grace" at one of my favorite bars when I did NOT play it. But those are almost the exceptions that prove the rule.

Originally Posted by Nikolaj

Seger's 'Face The Promise' deserved some play. Ann can still rock harder than most singers. It's so weird.

Yep. And Stevie can rock harder than most, too. And many people don't seem to understand that. Case in point: I sang "Fall From Grace" at karaoke one night and someone asked me who sang it. I said, "Stevie Nicks." Her response: "Who knew?" It's like, "uh, Stevie can rock amps to 11 you know..."

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by [QUOTE

HejiraNYC

For all the bashing of WB/Reprise, I can't really say that they didn't push TISL as far as it could go. Like you said, there were a couple of gorgeous, high-budget videos that were in pretty heavy rotation on VH1 at the time. Stevie was also the VH1 Artist of the Month and people who pre-ordered were able to stream the album in advance of the release date. They created some hot remixes of POTU and pushed them at the clubs. Stevie also hit the talk show circuit hard and was also given some made-up award at a made-up award ceremony just to get the advanced buzz going. Not to mention all of the print ads and the printed press, etc. At the end of the day, I think TISL did about as well as it could. I think it would have been one thing if Stevie had spent the years leading up to TISL really trying to reconnect with her audience as a solo act. But she didn't. As I mentioned before, she has done a piss-poor job of curating a fanbase, which is compounded by the fact that she doesn't crank out a new album every few years. It had been seven long years since her last album, and it would have been unrealistic for everyone to automatically assume that she could pick up right where she left off and start selling platinum albums again. Undoubtedly, TISL had some great songs on it, but at the end of the day, I do not think it was for the masses. And sadly, I think it's going to be even tougher today, and again it's 100% her own fault. You can't go 10 years without releasing new material and expect everything to be the way it was. Ask Kate Bush about how her last album sold. Peter Gabriel too.[/QUOTE]


I agree with you^^
TISL was heavily promoted, many magazine interviews and mentions, ads galore, VH1 Artist of the Month and Hear it 1st campaign to buy early, Many TV appearances & beautiful music video's that were played heavily on VH1 AND the tour! But I agree with most here, the critical 1st single was totally miscalculated, They needed to pick a song that was more upbeat and eased into the summer vibe better. I alway's thought Love Changes sounded fresh when I 1st heard it. It was a groovy song with a great hook, great vocal and great potential for a single that would grab new listeners. Also agree that Fall From Grace could have been a contender for 1st release as well. But Warners/Reprise elected to go the safe route and release the hauntingly familiar sounds of Planets & the tame & tepid Everyday, albeit solid album tracks, However they don't rise to the occasion and grab your attention unless your already a fan. Furthermore since they opted to go the Adult Contemporary route in Everyday, why not release the infinitely better song I Miss You or the tantalizing and colorful Bombay Sapphires. Plus I believe that the delay's on this record probably more than any other really hurt her. Stevie should have kept riding the crest that was still high from The Dance, and had the record out sometime between the summer to fall of 1999, or at least a year earlier than the May 2001 release date. And in hindsight if Stevie had not pulled the TISL version of Thrown Down(big mistake) prominently featuring Lindsey on lead harmony and guitar - it would have been TISL's best bet for 1st single choice & hit song as well as a bit of a novelty to have Lindsey distinctly featured on a Stevie Nicks solo record, in the same tradition of her other highwaymen; Tom Petty, Don Henley & Prince.

Now had Warner's done the same promotion with SYW that they did on TISL, with Thrown Down or Destiny Rules as the 1st single with beautiful video's and such, I think SYW would have been a bigger success by about double, easily going platinum.

All in all, I have a strong intuitive feeling the new record is going to be robust and diverse while still sounding cohesive & really "wow" some of us long time, half glass full, somewhat jaded ones, who think we know what's best for Stevie at this point, and have held on cause we believe she has another great record in her. But barring the chance of unpredictable spectral star shower's sprinkling above with sky's on fire, along with brilliant effervescent energy emanating from Stevie's presence during TV interviews & Stage performances (think Bella Donna through Wild Heart interviews & concerts) This new record will probably generate respectable critical attention, if not the most stellar of her career, and finally satiate her core believer's, but who will also continue to bitch that they picked the wrong 1st & 2nd singles, & marketing choice's, amid dissatisfying record sales (to each standards), hammering out all the could of, would of...told you so's, like this CD should be released in Mid-Oct. if it is indeed completed by then. It makes logical sense to let the interested public & fans get to know the songs 6 months before Lily hit's the road and does not get a crippling case of the willies about performing a lot of new material. However I do get the feeling that this Italian Summer song is going to be a lead contender for 1st single by the soundbites of the descriptions dropped so far (esp. David Wild calling it one of her Top 3 songs ever!!, and he's a big fan) It sounds like it could be a perfect choice for a spring/summer rendezvous romance single to kick off the record. But I must admit... I'm somewhat stifled by it's title, Hope I can get past it when I hear how brilliant the song ends up being. "To be continued, it's too much Stevie baby".