old article- abortions

[DashingDan]

Originally Posted by David

How come we never talk about Bekka's abortions?

Cos The Lady's were way more fabulous, that's how come.

[wolfontherun]

Originally Posted by skcin

Seems that some here often seem to confuse this message board with a courtroom. Damn near impossible to read a post without mention of statements. defense, conclusions & evidence. Yawwwwwwn.



Are you for real? What makes Stevie relevant today?
Please tell me.

Uhm if you don't know than maybe you shouldn't be in a Stevie forum. I will try to educate you a bit. Here are just a few things that make her relevant in 2008.

Song writting. Many artists have talked about her influence on them. Not once have I ever heard anyone say that Pat was an influence in this respect.

Fashion. Several top designers have been influenced by her style and have talked about it as have many starlets.

Nothing against Pat, I like her, but when was the last time anyone of any talent or importance covered or sampled one of her songs?

[RoseGarden]

This conversation is all one sided. None of these mentioned female artist got pregnant on their own. Not fair the sperm donor gets diregarded as if he had no part in this controversial subject.

[LukeA]

Originally Posted by wolfontherun

But Pat benator is not a Stevie Nicks and is certainly no where near FM so the comparison is not a fair one. Also PB career died in the mid to late 80s and never recovered. Yes I know she still tours but today she is not relevant and Stevie is.

Just exactly how delusional are you?

[strandinthewind]

I just don't get all the people thinking Pat Benatar was ever on the level of FM or La Nicks, even in the 80's, during which she got like seven platinum records, three gold records, and 19 Top 40 singles. There is no doubt Pat Benatar was a great singer (mezzo soprano) and did great, great material. I loved her stuff and still listen to it.

But, her relevance on the music scene pretty much stopped after 1985's Seven the Hard Way. For example, 1984's Tropico's single "We Belong" became a solid Top 5 smash in America (also hitting UK #22 and AUS #7) but the LP Tropico became her first studio album since the 1979 debut to fail to crack the US Top 10, reaching #14 (AUS #9). A second single release, "Ooh Ooh Song," reached U.S. #36. Then, in 1985, Seven the Hard Way's first single "Invincible" hit the U.S. Top 10 with the #10 and "Sex As a Weapon" hit #28 in January 1986 and the LP Seven the Hard Way peaked at #26, earning an RIAA Gold certification.

Conversely, La Nicks and FM stayed relevant with million plus sales until about 1989. Then both fell from relevance until 1997's The Dance, after which she and they stayed relevant in terms of public spotlight until now.

So, while FM and La Nicks' popularity and relevance have diminished since the 80's, clearly they are way more relevant than Pat Benatar ever was. This is not a slight on Benatar's talent, which is immense. It is just a matter of fact.

Put it this way, in this decade alone, La Nicks has been in well over 100 written interviews and primetime and other popular tv spots. Benatar cannot claim that clout no matter how immense her talent is, which it is

[LukeA]

Stevie's solo career- when it comes to the past or present- isn't all that far apart from Pat Benatar's.

Both had a string of big hits in the early-mid 80's, then largely disappeared.
Both were once-upon-a-time frequently dubbed "The Queen of Rock and Roll".
Both haven't been artistically relevant on ANY level for at least five years (and that's being generous, for both)
Both are perfectly content with re-packaging/re-releasing their same greatest hits over and over again.
Both never met a casino/corporate gig they didn't like.

[trackaghost]

Yes, but NME now says Stevie is cool and Pat was nowhere on that list!

That's why I hate these threads about Stevie's abortions, they always end up in an argument over whether Pat Benatar or Stevie is the biggest has-been!

[wolfontherun]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I just don't get all the people thinking Pat Benatar was ever on the level of FM or La Nicks, even in the 80's, during which she got like seven platinum records, three gold records, and 19 Top 40 singles. There is no doubt Pat Benatar was a great singer (mezzo soprano) and did great, great material. I loved her stuff and still listen to it.

But, her relevance on the music scene pretty much stopped after 1985's Seven the Hard Way. For example, 1984's Tropico's single "We Belong" became a solid Top 5 smash in America (also hitting UK #22 and AUS #7) but the LP Tropico became her first studio album since the 1979 debut to fail to crack the US Top 10, reaching #14 (AUS #9). A second single release, "Ooh Ooh Song," reached U.S. #36. Then, in 1985, Seven the Hard Way's first single "Invincible" hit the U.S. Top 10 with the #10 and "Sex As a Weapon" hit #28 in January 1986 and the LP Seven the Hard Way peaked at #26, earning an RIAA Gold certification.

Conversely, La Nicks and FM stayed relevant with million plus sales until about 1989. Then both fell from relevance until 1997's The Dance, after which she and they stayed relevant in terms of public spotlight until now.

So, while FM and La Nicks' popularity and relevance have diminished since the 80's, clearly they are way more relevant than Pat Benatar ever was. This is not a slight on Benatar's talent, which is immense. It is just a matter of fact.

Put it this way, in this decade alone, La Nicks has been in well over 100 written interviews and primetime and other popular tv spots. Benatar cannot claim that clout no matter how immense her talent is, which it is

Oh well Strand, we tried, don't think the PB fans are listening though. I wonder what people on her website have to say about Stevie?

I was a fan of Benatar because of Crimes of Passion which is a brilliant piece of music but after that my tastes kinda changed and I rejected that too tough chick image in favor of the willowy waif image of Nicks and Merchant.

I also never forgave Benatar for stealing the Grammy from Stevie in 83 (?) The time Mick was the presenter, I remember thinking oh the producers know that Stevie won and that is why they are having Mick present the category. Maybe it was someone's idea of a sick joke.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by LukeA

Both had a string of big hits in the early-mid 80's, then largely disappeared.

No - Enchanted and TISL sold very well and certainly way better than anything Benatar did since 1985. Moreover, La Nicks sells sheds and other small venues on her own and did so even in the SA era. Moreover, with FM (which must be considered because she is a significant (not the only mind you) part of FM's relevance) she sells arenas, a feat Bentar has not done since, maybe 1985.

Originally Posted by LukeA

Both were once-upon-a-time frequently dubbed "The Queen of Rock and Roll".

La Nicks is still called this

Originally Posted by LukeA

Both haven't been artistically relevant on ANY level for at least five years (and that's being generous, for both)

Well, La Nicks has headlined tours on her own this year and had the relevance to be considered seriously for Celine Dion's theatre in Vegas three years ago, which she played. Moreover, La Nicks has the relevance to be in the news all the time and her new releases (even the reissues with the one or two new songs) get Leno, Letterman, The Today Show, etc. because of her continued, though diminished, relevance.

Originally Posted by LukeA

Both are perfectly content with re-packaging/re-releasing their same greatest hits over and over again.

True. But, that only means La Nicks has not recorded a new comnplete record since SYW. Again, she is still in the public light though - look at her Soundstage and its reception.

Originally Posted by LukeA

Both never met a casino/corporate gig they didn't like.

What does this have to do with relevance? A gig is a gig But, if you want to go down that road, La Nicks has never toured as part of an ensemble of bands whose last hits were in the 80's. La Nicks is her own headliner to this day, unless she co-headlines with Petty or Henley (again she has the relevance to do this), arguably two of the larger stars in the world
__________________________________________

In the end, Benatar is an amazing talent who was never relevant and popular from like 1979 to 1985, but even in the six years of the height of her popularity (which was significant) she was never really in the same league with La Nicks solo or FM as far as sales and public exposure go. La Nicks' voice and talent have helped sell over 100 million records world wide and she is still pretty much instantly recognizeable by most, though certainly that has faded too. Benatar never really had that popularity or relevance.

[David]

Originally Posted by LukeA

Both were once-upon-a-time frequently dubbed "The Queen of Rock and Roll".

Wasn't it just all the Stevie fans who continually called Stevie that after the Rolling Stone editors used the epithet on their Stevie cover story (& certainly never used it again & certainly didn't give Stevie concert or album reviews that sounded as if anyone on staff there thought she was the greatest rocker of all)?

But all this relevance stuff reminds me of a seminar Robert Scholes once gave at Brown University. The prospectus said: "We will at all times read a 'primary' text through a theoretical text. We hope in this to avoid the notion that the theory of reading & the practice of reading can be divorced. Those not conversant with recent theory of reading will not acquire it in isolation from texts, but will at the very least be led to posit a dialectical relationship between texts. Thus a Lawrence story will be read through Todorov's Poetics of Prose, Bertolucci's Before the Revolution will be read through Althusser on Brecht. Ideally, we would like at the end of eight weeks to have reached the point in our work in which a seminar member might undertake to read Todorov through Lawrence, or to theorize his own position as a reader through an examination of Before the Revolution."

Never mind the tautologizing, highfalutin jargon, obnubilation, & deadwood, I'm dead certain that I have nothing to gain from reading Todorov through Todorov, let alone through D.H. Lawrence. Nor would I, while in the possession of a shred of sanity, wish to theorize my own position on Before the Revolution as a reader through Althusser. I wouldn't even watch Before the Revolution through a bunch of women wearing big hats.

[strandinthewind]

I do not think she or any others have given her this status. The coronation by RS as the "reigning" Queen of R&R suggests her reign could end, which it likely did. But, this designation has been repeated in stories about La Nicks. So, it has been perpetuated that way and even though she has not achieved that status since the RS cover, which, again, suggested it was temporary.

An example of a permanent title is Aretha Franklin as "The Queen of Soul."

[trackaghost]

Pat Benatar was once called "the Queen of rock and roll"?

[SortaSavageLike]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Pat Benatar was once called "the Queen of rock and roll"?

That was before people found out that she was a man.

[RoseGarden]

I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember in the 80's where Pat Benatars career was going strong and Pat decided she 'd rather have a baby and be a a family person over keeping the R&R status.

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by RoseGarden

I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember in the 80's where Pat Benatars career was going strong and Pat decided she 'd rather have a baby and be a a family person over keeping the R&R status.

Or was it just that Spider is no Lindsey Buckingham...