That's So Gay

[skcin]

Thoughts?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17388702/?GT1=9145

That’s so gay’ prompts a lawsuit
Student sent to principal’s office insists it was not a homophobic putdown
Feb 28, 2007
SANTA ROSA, Calif. - When a few classmates razzed Rebekah Rice about her Mormon upbringing with questions such as, "Do you have 10 moms?" she shot back: "That's so gay."

Those three words landed the high school freshman in the principal's office and resulted in a lawsuit that raises this question: When do playground insults used every day all over America cross the line into hate speech that must be stamped out?

After Rice got a warning and a notation in her file, her parents sued, claiming officials at Santa Rosa's Maria Carillo High violated their daughter's First Amendment rights when they disciplined her for uttering a phrase "which enjoys widespread currency in youth culture," according to court documents.

Testifying last week about the 2002 incident, Rice, now 18, said that when she uttered those words, she was not referring to anyone's sexual orientation. She said the phrase meant: "That's so stupid, that's so silly, that's so dumb."

But school officials say they took a strict stand against the putdown after two boys were paid to beat up a gay student the year before.

"The district has a statutory duty to protect gay students from harassment," the district's lawyers argued in a legal brief. "In furtherance of this goal, prohibition of the phrase 'That's so gay' ... was a reasonable regulation."

Superior Court Judge Elaine Rushing plans to issue a ruling in the non-jury trial after final written arguments are submitted in April. Her gag order prevents the two sides from discussing the case.

A confusing set of terms
Derogatory terms for homosexuality have long been used as insults. But the landscape has become confusing in recent years as minority groups have tried to reclaim terms like "queer," "ghetto" and the n-word.

In recent years, gay rights advocates and educators have tried teaching students that it is hurtful to use the word "gay" as an all-purpose term for something disagreeable. At Berkeley High School, a gay student club passed out buttons with the words "That's so gay" crossed out to get their classmates to stop using them.

Rick Ayers, a retired teacher who helped compile and publish the "Berkeley High School Slang Dictionary," a compendium of trendy teen talk circa 2001, said educating students about offensive language is preferable to policing their speech.


"I wouldn't be surprised if this girl didn't even know the origin of that term," he said. "The kids who get caught saying it will claim it's been decontextualized, but others will say, `No, you know what that means.' It's quite talked about."

Rice's parents, Elden and Katherine Rice, also claim the public high school employed a double-standard because, they say, administrators never sought to shield Rebekah from teasing based on Mormon stereotypes.

Daughter singled out, parents say
In addition, the Rices say their daughter was singled out because of the family's conservative views on sexuality. They are seeking unspecified damages and want the disciplinary notation expunged from Rebekah's school record.

Eliza Byard, deputy executive director of the New York-based Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, said nearly nine out of 10 gay students her organization surveyed in 2005 reported hearing "That's so gay" or "You're so gay" frequently.

"It bothers them a lot," Byard said. "As odd or funny as the phrase sounds, imagine what it feels like to be in a setting where you consistently hear it used to describe something undesirable or stupid, and it also refers to you."

She said it is OK to discipline students for using the phrase after efforts have been made to educate them.

"The job of a school is to deal proactively and consistently with all forms of bullying, name-calling and harassment," she said.

Jordan Lorence, an attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian legal organization, agreed "That's so gay" carries a negative meaning and said he would not want his children to say it. But he said formal discipline is not the answer.

"Reasonable people should say, `Let's put a stop to this kind of search-and-destroy mission by school officials for everything that is politically incorrect,'" he said.

[LikeAWillow]

Good for the school for trying to put a stop to it. I can't stand it when people use phrases like "That's so gay" or "That's so retarded." Those same people would be appalled, hopefully at least, to hear things like "That's so black", "That's so Jewish", "That's so *insert minority here*" tossed around.

[mikeschmike]

I use that phrase, but not to describe something as dumb or idiotic. I use it literally, like saying Bravo is the gayest network on TV. Truly, it is.

I do say "that's so retarded" a lot, but again I mean it in the literal sense. "Retarded, mentally deficient, and nonsensica"l fit together a lot better then "dumb, stupid, and gay".

[sara1998]

Originally Posted by mikeschmike

I do say "that's so retarded" a lot, but again I mean it in the literal sense. "Retarded, mentally deficient, and nonsensica"l fit together a lot better then "dumb, stupid, and gay".

Same difference as saying something is gay. But the ACLU and schools aren't having a fit to make the kids stop saying that. I say that's retarded a lot also, and I have a family member with autism. I don't have anything against him, it's used as a figure of speech.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by LikeAWillow

Good for the school for trying to put a stop to it. I can't stand it when people use phrases like "That's so gay" or "That's so retarded." Those same people would be appalled, hopefully at least, to hear things like "That's so black", "That's so Jewish", "That's so *insert minority here*" tossed around.

My sister uses this exact argument with her kids (she teaches sixth grade) in trying to get them to stop using the term "it's so gay" Because they do...all. the. time.

[skcin]

I stopped saying "that's retarded" when I worked with retarded kids. Now it's creeping back into my dialogue, not sure how or why. I used to say "that's gay" all the time, then I felt weird about it. Until my gay boyfriend Ryan was talking about a party he was at & said "It was so f*cking gay, I had to leave."

So, I dunno. If I had kids, I wouldn't want them running around yelling "you're gay, you're a retard, that's gay, stop being so retarded." But I think a lawsuit is a bit much. People sue everyone for everything these days.

[sara1998]

Originally Posted by skcin

People sue everyone for everything these days.

The lawsuit is a bit much, but they have a valid point: None of the other kids were being disciplined for teasing about the Mormon religion.

[amber]

Originally Posted by LikeAWillow

Good for the school for trying to put a stop to it. I can't stand it when people use phrases like "That's so gay" or "That's so retarded." Those same people would be appalled, hopefully at least, to hear things like "That's so black", "That's so Jewish", "That's so *insert minority here*" tossed around.

Those are two of my favorite phrases. I think I'll start saying "That's so gayly retarded"

Anyway, this thread is long, and I don't have that kinda time, and I'm sure bunches of people made the points that the phrase shouldn't be said, and why.
That just reminded me of that time in the music store when that gay worker guy got sooooo offended when I said "that's so gay" that dogs can come in the store but not me on my rollerblades, and told me to "roll my big butt on outta there".

I still think he was hella lame, though. I don't like when certain groups of people "own" words. That being said, sometimes I try to watch my mouth because obviously I don't want to offend anyone, especially as I am not prejudiced against either gay or mentally challenged people. Well, I'm kinda prejudiced against mentally handicapped people who don't actually have anything medically wrong with them, and sometimes really, really, really happy people (gay) piss me off, but overall, not so much.

It's unfortunate that such a funny thing to say (to me) originated as an insult to a group of people, homosexuals. However, to me, "gay" in that context doesn't even make me think of gay people, it never did. It just means "lame" in my head. I realize that doesn't change the actual meaning of the word.

It's hella retarded that people are so sensitive about the words, but I understand. Actually, retarded isn't even the word for mentally challenged people anymore, it is just back to its original meaning, which was "slow", right? So if I want to say something is "slow", it seems that I can use retarded.

It doesn't really matter, I'll still say those things. Because I'm not talking about, or referring to, either actual gay or actually mentally challenged people when I say them.

[WildHeart69]

Originally Posted by LikeAWillow

Those same people would be appalled, hopefully at least, to hear things like ... "That's so Jewish"

sad thing is, I have heard that one used before...

[ontheEdgeof17]

I love how they can type out words and phrases that are downgrading to homosexuals, but when it comes to the word "nigger", they put "n-word".

[HomerMcvie]

This brings to mind an episode of Everybody Loves Raymond, where they keep telling Amy(Robert's wife) that she's "queer". I was very surprised that they used that word, without ruffling someone's overly-sensitive feathers.

[Nixxxed]

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17

I love how they can type out words and phrases that are downgrading to homosexuals, but when it comes to the word "nigger", they put "n-word".

Thank you! That exact situation even happened to me on this board.

[Sarah]

I hate how everybody in America is scared of being offended.

We need to institute an "IN YOUR FACE, PANSY" day.. like casual Friday, where people say whatever they want without worrying that it hurts someone else's "feelings". This walking-on-eggshells, god-forbid-i-offend-someone, careful-what-you-say-all-the-time **** is for the birds, man.

Is it rude to say gay, retard, nigger, jew..blahblahblah? Yeah. Is it a CRIME? Hell no, and rightfully so. The reality is that we're getting closer and closer to losing our free speech rights every time people whine about being offended.

[sara1998]

Originally Posted by Sarah

I hate how everybody in America is scared of being offended.

We need to institute an "IN YOUR FACE, PANSY" day.. like casual Friday, where people say whatever they want without worrying that it hurts someone else's "feelings". This walking-on-eggshells, god-forbid-i-offend-someone, careful-what-you-say-all-the-time **** is for the birds, man.

Is it rude to say gay, retard, nigger, jew..blahblahblah? Yeah. Is it a CRIME? Hell no, and rightfully so. The reality is that we're getting closer and closer to losing our free speech rights every time people whine about being offended.

I agree. Suck it up people. So, black people call me a cracker. I really don't give a damn.

[sparky]

I'm on the fence with this one. On one hand, I am extremely down on the whole politically correct bs. I am so politically incorrect that I offend people all the time. On the other hand, I know for a fact that there is an undercurrent to using that phrase for some people. For adolescent males, it's a way to distinguish themselves from a subject that makes them uncomfortable for countless reasons. It's a not so subtle putdown of homos and some but not all people who use the phrase are saying that there is something really wrong and bad about homos. And that can reinforce an environmental belief that can encourage more extreme expressions of that sentiment. When an entire group uses that as a catchall phrase...its hard to escape that the subtext is someone's identity or sexual orientation is equated with something wrong, not okay, or screwed up, its not a far stretch to feel its okay to lash out at those people. Not always. But it can be. Get a pack of 16 year old football players all wound up and the wrong thing gets said - pretty soon some nerdy, nelly gay boy's brains are on the cement. I'm saying this knowing how defenseless some scared gay adolescents can be.

There is a total double standard employed like other people have mentioned. People would be having a damned cow if there was catch phrase like "That's so nig" or "That's so kike". Can you imagine the uproar?

I see both sides of it. Language is not by definition violent and damaging, but it sure can express hostility well. Its all in the delivery and intent. And homo teenagers and younger kids are sometimes more vulnerable than others, even if they don't show it.

I'm not sure about banning speech. It seems extreme to me. Nonetheless, everyday some poor queer teenager is getting his or her head bashed in somewhere in the world. And frequently the schools don't give a damn about protecting them. So I don't know what the solution is. They use of such phrases doesn't always make those bad things happen, but I think the belief that they are always harmless can help foster an environment where such violence is probably more likely to take place.