That's So Gay

[sara1998]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

"Faggot" hurt me to the core when I was a teenager. My sexual orientation was something I struggled with to the point that I almost killed myself over it.
So, back then, the word hurt. A lot.

Now that I'm older, I know it's just a word and only has power if you let it.
But I remember how that 15 year old felt, and it really does pain me to think that there are other kids somewhere going through what I did. "That's so gay" has a negative connotation and I'm sure that's not lost on the kids going through the difficulties of growing up gay. Same with "that's so retarded."

I'd rather err on the side of caution, I guess.

And I absolutely want to apologize, Maria, if I made it sound like I thought you were being callous or that you must be a miserable person. I adore you. That certainly wasn't directed at you.

No apology needed, babe. I know exactly what you meant.

I agree that people should be sensitive to other peoples feelings, but those in question should not take someone (like myself) to heart.

[foxyluva]

My two cents:

I think it is not a big deal to say 'that is so gay' once in a while, but when it is said all the time, it can be extremely offensive. I had a go at my brother and his friends for this very thing not two weeks ago....

[amber]

Originally Posted by markolas

Honestly, I've never actually heard anyone say it. But I don't hang out with 16-year olds, so... I was vaguely aware that it's a popular thing for kids to say, but yes, I think it's a slur.

Kids?! I been saying that since 6th grade. Well, you're only 5'6", right? Don't exercise much? I'll take my chances.
I don't like being told what not to say when I'm not prejudiced. You do know that gay meant "happy", and still does, before it was co-opted? And come to think of it, how is it a slur if it means happy and carefree? It's not like...uh...WOP or SPIC or CHINK, none of which mean good things.

[estranged4life]

Hell, I've been called a 'half-breed' in this hellhole town by some Indians who are full-blooded because I am a Cherokee/Irish mix - and you know what my response to that is? "Whoopdie-effing-doo" (Make a circular motion in the air).

Yeah, I use the word "'tarded" (ie-F**ktard, Relig-a-tard, polit-a-tard), big deal - I do have enough common sense & respect/pride to NEVER use that word towards a person who has a mental disability.

"Words don't cause harm - it is the intent behind the words"-George Carlin

[michelle2677]

I feel like the rosie thread just got revived.

[jannieC]

Having just spent 5 months in a Diversity class for graduate school, I know that those phrases should not be used. I'm having to learn NOT to say them because I am totally guilty. Especially, "that's so retarded". But in defense of the "that's so gay" thing. When *I* say it, I am truly not referring to a homosexual. I'm saying "gay" like "silly". Obviously as a therapist, I need to remove those phrases from my vocabulary. (But can I never EVER tell my husband he's a retard?)

I did also recently learn that calling someone a faggot is the new adolescent put down lately. Even if the kid isn't gay. That's really sad. Since I'm not gay (or retarded), it's probably not up to me to dictate whether or not the phrases should hurt someone else's feelings. That being said, I know how hard it is to be accused of being racist, homophobic, and so on, when you're not.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by jannieC

(But can I never EVER tell my husband he's a retard?)

the following words as a substitute for 'retard' :

assface
numbnuts
goober
assclown
durn-fool-idgit
neanderthal
pussywhipped (Of course one has to get the pussy before they can be whipped by it, otherwise theyre referred to as a 'wuss')
asshat
and of course the ever popular asshole

My wife uses them all to describe me, of course she stole all those words from me...so....

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by foxyluva

I think it is not a big deal to say 'that is so gay' once in a while, but when it is said all the time, it can be extremely offensive. I had a go at my brother and his friends for this very thing not two weeks ago....

My brother will sometimes jokingly call me "Pillow Biter," which I think is hysterical. But then I know my brother and I know that it's not being said with malice.
If someone else called me that, I'd rip them a new asshole. Depending on the context, of course.

Hell, I laid into the new employee we had last year at the library, when she went to hand a patron the People magazine with Lance Bass on the cover and loudly scoffed that homosexuality is "all in their heads"

[WildHeart69]

Originally Posted by LikeAWillow

Those same people would be appalled, hopefully at least, to hear things like ... "That's so Jewish"

sad thing is, I have heard that one used before...

[Nixxxed]

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17

I love how they can type out words and phrases that are downgrading to homosexuals, but when it comes to the word "nigger", they put "n-word".

Thank you! That exact situation even happened to me on this board.

[foxyluva]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

My brother will sometimes jokingly call me "Pillow Biter," which I think is hysterical. But then I know my brother and I know that it's not being said with malice.
If someone else called me that, I'd rip them a new asshole. Depending on the context, of course.

Definately. I can take a joke - but often my brother's conversations with his friends revolve around everything gay. Its extremely annoying, and one of them is shocking at doing it - but I have a sneaking suspision that he is a fag himself, which would explain alot...

[amber]

Originally Posted by sparky

Good thing we can't see yer jizz stache while you're typing, Suzanne.

Okay, now that I get to read this thread, it is pretty awesome. OMG, Jizzstache. That is my favorite new word.
Sorry, Strand, Sanchezstache is a little to gross for me. To talk about. In public.

Jizzzzzzstaaaaaaaachee. It has pinache, it really does. What about "Jizzhands!" a la Fossey? Nice. "Aaaaand, Jizzhands! FosseyFosseyFossey!"

BTW, Sparkles, I enjoyed your post on the subject. You stradled that fence skillfully and logically. It also brought the thought that girls should have a free pass to say "that's gay!", but in the hands of pre or adolescent or teenage boys, that phrase is a dangerous and meaningful bomb. And that isn't cool. I feel like we are fast approaching the day when it won't matter much if someone calls someone gay, judging from what I've seen of the new generation. I will never think the word "f*****" is okay for me to say, though, unless I'm specifically trading convo with some gay guy who is using it. Even then, I don't think I could say it. Like N-word. I'm not sure I could ever say that.
However, retarded and gay are on the approved list, for a girl like me.
Unless I'm speaking within earshot of a very sensitive gay retail worker from Rasputin on Telegraph.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Sarah

It really is a grey area. And to be honest, I don't think there is a way to decide how to draw the line until it gets to the point of hate crime.

As bad as a slur is, it's like.. if someone has that in their soul anyway, does it matter to them if someone tells them they're bad? I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into words on this. Freedom of speech is a double edged sword, for sure. It's a shame that people say some of the things they do, but it's even more of a shame that everyone feels the need to care about what everyone else thinks of them.

On a lighter note, I'm going to start saying "that's so hetero" for stuff that's stupid and see if it catches on. I bet it will, because a lot of my friends tend to pick up on phrases that I use (not because I'm sooooo cool.. just because i say a lot of whack ****).

What?!?!?! I'm totally offended! I'm sick of the "gay club" around here, just because I like to sleep with men, doesn't mean I'm a bad person, or lame. I have feelings and valid opinions just like everyone else.












But seriously, that other stuff you said is good, too, I tend to agree.

Also, I like to make up other insults. or non insults. That don't have any inherent meaning. Like "That's so mank!" or "Stuff that!" or "that's very effluvius". Okay, that last one already means something, but still. I also find terms like "squirrel head" and "monkey head" can go either way. They are affectionate, yet slightly insulting. I call most kids "squirrel heads" because they are spazzes. But it sounds cute, see how that works? Or what about "That's so bazang".
But for reals, I've curbed myself of saying "that's so gay" easily, by saying "that's so lame", or "that is hella, hella, hella lame".

[amber]

Originally Posted by ryan8472

Well we can keep doing nothing, which in turn solves nothing, or parents can start teaching their children how to act. Then again, we don't like to tell parents how to raise their kids. Maybe we should? We can't beat the kids, because they'll keep doing the same to their kids. We can't just remind them not to do something, because children these days have attention spans of a goldfish because of the "learning disabilities" they are told they have. And we certainly can't discuss homosexuality and diversity in health class, because the parents will **** bricks. So therefore, I guess we just need to place computer chips in children's brains.

Whoa, I've never seen you say anything this serious. You're hella right, though.
I have no real insightful thing to say about this, children and parents piss me off. No, I'm not talking about anyone here. Just in general.

I have found from observation of a couple of my awesome friends, that the thing that changes people's minds the most about something is when someone approaches them in a very kind and loving and non judgmental way about it. I have a couple friends who can change people's minds and outlooks just by talking to them. Unfortunately, not everyone has this gift. I mean, people already like these friends because of their kind and loving and accepting and nonjudgmental manners, so that when they speak, the other person already puts faith and value in their opinion. But these friends of mine are very nonconfrontational in their approach to everything. And very few people are like that when they disagree about something.
I guess put in simpler terms, it's changing people's minds by example. Like, this person is very cool and I like her/him, so I am taking what he/she says into serious consideration, because if they think that, and I like them, then their opinion is more valid.

*As a weird note, none of these things ever came up in my school while I was growing up. We just learned all the PC, or "right" things to think about other races at least. But that is because it was basically all white upper middle class people, so we never had any actual confrontations, or differences of culture. There was a sprinkle of PWT, and a sprinkle of olive skin (me, and a couple other girls, and this one guy), but....
also, I never heard about gay people at all. Either positively or negatively. Even in highschool, among the choir/drama boys, it never really came up. I guess there was this one drama guy who was really, really gay, but no one ever said that, and I never saw anyone judging him about it. He was a little lame, so sometimes people said that, but that's all. And hella people were lame, so it wasn't unusual. And of course I guess some of the choir boys turned out to be gay, and I guess we spotted it, but no one said anything or treated them differently. No one talked about them and said they were gay. Also, most of those guys I can think of were really nice, all the girls loved them.

I guess it could have been more brutal in jockworld, but I didn't live there, I just played and was good at sports. And there was lots of crossover, like me. Jocks who were in choir or drama, etc. We just called the ones who were only jocks and hella dumb "lamos".

My point is that I think I have kind of a utopian ideal view of how things should be, or how they are, or what is really right and true. It all seems so obvious to me, I guess because I hadn't seen any conflict around these things growing up, and of course my parents and the school taught me the proper liberal view. I'm sure there would have been conflict, given that a large pop of my schools were mormon, and christian...but it never came up, so we all just learned (in school) the "right" things. And of course, no one is more polite than mormon and christian white kids, so even if they were taught differently at home, we never saw it in school.
Weird.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by amber

I feel like we are fast approaching the day when it won't matter much if someone calls someone gay, judging from what I've seen of the new generation.

Maybe. But we live in big urban areas where people have a more sophisticated and ironic reference point. Again, I am not sure about this whole idea. I suppose it is all in the delivery. I'm not too sensitive about it but I am thinking more about kids, and even on that count I don't have a great experience level or maybe even a valid POV anymore. When I hear about young homos getting beaten up and harrassed in schools, that's what makes me wonder. It isn't just normal kids making fun of each other when you are afraid that if you get caught in the hall at the wrong moment your head is getting slammed into a locker or the pavement. I wish the whole country was beyond that crap but outside of big cities it certainly isn't.

I have certainly used that phrase, but when I say it, I really mean something is totally gay. For instance, a dude with highlights and too much cologne and really OTT designer sunglasses. Or brunch. Or techno music and a disco ball in clothing store.

Or, ya know, a jizzstache.