I'm sorry but I think Lindsey is a little overrated

[CarneVaca]

On the issue of violence, I will say this: If Lindsey was slapping his girlfriends around, that's not cool. I'm not going to sit here and defend that.

On the issue of violence in Fleetwood Mac, Mick himself has dismissed the episode he described in his book as exaggerated. I believe that's the word he used. And Stevie has also said she attacked Lindsey. I also read in Rolling Stone some years ago that Christine slapped Lindsey once.

This all indicates to me that there was an atmosphere in the band that was somewhat permissive of slapping each other around. So while we may make judgments of whether that's cool or not, let's not just point the finger at one person. There are enough accounts by band members themselves that it wasn't just Lindsey who was slapping others around.

These Stevie vs. Lindsey discussions indeed get out of hand, but that doesn't change my position that Lindsey is the better person.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
The WTTR...S that is in circulation is a demo; there's no way that it could be an outtake. Unless you have one that is different than the one in circulation. I have the outtake to Seven Wonders and it's the same vocal until the end, where the album version ends, this one goes on for a while longer.

What I meant was that this song was cut in one night; as quoted by Stevie. She sang it, fudged up the lyrics, tried again that same night, and kept the fudged up version because it was the best vocal.

Ahh, I get what you're saying.... yes, the vocal take on the album version *is* the first take. So you're definitely right. I thought you meant that particular vocal was the one and only take.
The outtake I have definitely has some different vocals throughout the song (especially noticeable in the first verse), and additional ad-libbing at the end.

Now, the version of "Welcome To The Room... Sara," that I have, could be a solo demo/outtake... there's a full-band backing her, but it's possible that it isn't Fleetwood Mac (much like the circulating outtake of "What Has Rock And Roll Ever Done For You" is not FM).

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by David
Is this the Jim Ladd Innerview from 1986 or the on-air phone call he made to Stevie in Scottsdale just a few days before "Rock a Little" was released in 1985?

I have both interviews (or "Innerviews," if you will!) on the same cassette, so without grabbing the tape and listening to it, I can't say with certainty which segment it's from.

In my mind they sort of run together since they're on the same cassette.

[wondergirl9847]

I leave you kids alone for 5 minutes and I come home to THIS!! LMAO!! GEEZ!! It's the whole Lindsey vs. Stevie thing again. I do love reading the insults and VERY HEATED debates on it tho..lol...I mean, do we HONESTLY believe we are gonna change minds as to who's more talented, better, etc? Nope.

LINDSEY RULES!!

STEVIE ROCKS!!

FLEETWOOD MAC IS BACK!!

ROCK ON PEEPS!

[Craig]

Originally posted by LindseyRocks


Craig, you're a ****ing idiot. As far as I'm concerned, you're exactly the type of fan that Fleetwood Mac doesn't need - you're just another dweeb with you head stuck way up the butt of mainstream american popular culture. In fact, people like you are the reason they don't play some of the cooler stuff on tour - why they stay stuck in the same old crap that they've always done. ooops, I suspect I went way over the top here:O. Actually, it's quite funny to me, because I don't really care if I get kicked off of this site or not.

Er, you might want to calm down, how far some people go...I am just as much capable as being into the deep stuff(which Stevie is far more than Lindsey I find) than you may think. As I said, I think Kate bush far outshines anyone as far as "deeply thought out music goes" and I love her. What I really don't get is why you seem to think that a long guitar solo or an effect on a guitar solo where you move the speaker volume from left to right makes his music THAT much better than Stevies.

You are the sort of person who seems to like the wrapping of the package rather than what's inside. How superficial is your musical taste that anything pretentious is supposedly better than something that's not?

I'd MUCH prefer to be taken to a place lyrically personally.

The ironic thing is that I was just about to issue a comment about the best songs on SYW being Stevie's songs, but ONLY because of what LINDSEY did to them (don't get me wrong folks, I'm a Lindsey fan in the hardcore way, but the true chemistry happens when Lindsey and Stevie are going at it TOGETHER).

You really have a chip on your shoulder about Stevie don't you? You are the sort of person who thinks that because stevie is popular that she must be lightweight, well I think that's ridiculous, it's not what she wears, it's her songs, they are imo and a lot of other peoples, better than Lindseys.

LINDSEY ROCKS - plain and simple - without him, the Fleetwood Mac sound would've never existed. Anybody who doesn't recognize this is belongs in the "I'm just another American Dumb-Ass who swallows whatever the media feeds me" catagory.

But I know a few of you "get it"...

david

You don't "get it" I was born in england and I live in canada, don't act like it's about dumb americans either because Lindsey is American just as much as Stevie..talk about a high level of ignorance.

[Craig]

this thread has sort of gotten out of control, I won't read all the middle stuff(yet) but I will say that this really was more about my thinking Lindsey was overrated more than a VS battle, not sure why it turned out that way..maybe with a little goading here and there.

Anyway, I am a HUGE madonna fan and it seems that she gets the whole "you're so big because of your image" I thought it was just her but even Stevie gets it from Lindsey fans?
HOW RIDICULOUSLY INSULTING!

I'm tired of it, it seems that the women are always the first to be dismissed in their careers.

They're judged on their looks and image far more than men and it's a shame that even Fleetwood Mac fans do the same.

A female singer who is successful is thought to be so because of their looks or gimicks or self promotion and they're always the ones who aren't allowed to age gracefully, it's completely ridiculous.

[Craig]

Originally posted by BlueGrass
I think your overrated.

Holla Up

Apparently you think proper use of the word your/you're is overrated too.

[SeventhWonder]

This thread is getting a little hostile, eh?

Although I am admittedly more of a Stevie fan, I still think that LB is great. In fact I think he is very underrated in the music industry. However I think it's ridiculous to speculate on "who's the better person" because we don't personally know these people. We don't hear everything that's going on, we only get to hear what they want us to know. Even information from interviews is a bit unreliable, don't you think? ....just my 2 cents..


And now for a totally unrelated question...
Hey CarneVaca, just out of curiosity (this has been bugging me for some time), why did you choose "meat-cow" for your user name? I think it's pretty cool

[CarneVaca]

SeventhWonder, thanks. "CarneVaca" is a contraction of the words "carne de vaca," which are Portuguese and Spanish for, literally, "cow meat." Portuguese and Spanish speakers use it in reference to what we call "beef." I just wanted a handle that wasn't a Fleetwood Mac reference and, since I am not a beefy guy, it's kind of a funny name.

Look, I'll come clean on the "better person" thing. Obviously, I don't know who the better person is. Claiming that I do would indeed be absurd. I wrote that knowing full well what the reaction would be here. It's always interesting to see what people will bring up to combat a statement like that. OK, so I like to make trouble. Besides, the bash-Mick threads were getting old...

In all seriousness, if I had a choice, I would hang out with Lindsey as opposed to Stevie. I can relate to him more and he seems like he's become quite relaxed and sober about life in recent years. He also seems like the kind of guy you could joke around with but also could get into really serious conversations.

As for you, Craig, if you didn't think this topic was going to cause a storm, perhaps you haven't paid enough attention to this board. Also, your sanctimonious attitude about caring more for the lyrics than the musical "package" is rubbing some people the wrong way, I'm sure. You seem to think that because you focus more on lyrics, you get music on a deeper level than folks who focus more on the music itself. I could make a case to the contrary. Or I could make a case either way. You should open your mind to the idea that "getting" music is not about one or the other always. I am deeply interested in words, and in fact I focus more on the lyrics than the music when I write my own songs. But I can just as deeply lose myself in a melody, rhythm or beat when I am enjoying music.

[blinker12]

Definitely not. I skimmed over your post and decided it needed no response. When I have something to say to you, I will. Directly. You may accuse me of a lot of things here, but "veiled responses" isn't one of them.

It needed no response, or you couldn't come up with one? I suspect the latter. After all, I asked you a direct question: Had it occurred to you that the reason Lindsey didn't seem sulky after the album's release was that he got his way? That is, that the tracks were sequenced according to his prerogative?

You contrasted his sunny disposition following the album's release with Stevie's moodiness to back up your outrageous assertion that Lindsey is a "better person" than Stevie. However, I don't think your argument holds water. Lindsey was sunny because he got his way. You'd better come up with better proof for your assertion than that, if you expect anyone to buy it.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by blinker12
It needed no response, or you couldn't come up with one? I suspect the latter.

Blinker, here are the questions you asked me:

1) Lindsey's the better person?
2) So now you're officially God, passing judgment on us mere mortals?
3)Hasn't it occurred to you that Lindsey was less upset than Stevie about the outcome because he won the argument?

One and two seem like rhetorical questions to me, therefore not worth answering. Unless you really want me to tell you whether I think I'm god. Then you asked the third question, which you proceeded to answer yourself. If you know the answer, why do I need to bother? Besides, you seem to be the only one around here who "knows" Lindsey won the argument. I don't know that, therefore I can't answer your question.

Finally, you should have read my last post before this one, in which I address the "better person" comment. This conversation is so yesterday, man, so get over it.

[blinker12]

Then you asked the third question, which you proceeded to answer yourself. If you know the answer, why do I need to bother? Besides, you seem to be the only one around here who "knows" Lindsey won the argument. I don't know that, therefore I can't answer your question.

I don't have the time right now to go back and look for specific articles to back this up. But Lindsey has said in interviews that Stevie was upset with the album's sequencing. I think we can safely assume from that statement that she didn't determine the track order _ which means that either Lindsey, Mick or John (or a combination) did. Can I say without a doubt that it was Lindsey who made the final decision? No. But the point is that Stevie was upset because her vision for the album wasn't honored. Lindsey certainly isn't above that kind of upset _ he's a notorious control freak.

Finally, you should have read my last post before this one, in which I address the "better person" comment. This conversation is so yesterday, man, so get over it.

You're right about the fact that I should have read your last post first _ which I didn't. I'm glad you decided to "come clean" about the "better person" issue. However, I don't think the fact that you "like to make trouble" justifies your original statement; if it did, any mean-spirited remark made in the name of mischievousness would be beyond reproach.
And thanks, I will get over it _ for now. But I wish you would retire your sweeping, negative generalizations about Stevie, which have no basis in fact. I mean, I'm not even her biggest cheerleader. I know she can be self-indulgent and egotistical (so can Lindsey and Mick, although the McVies seem to be a quieter breed). But I know an unfair comment when I see one.

[SmthngOfADreamr]

Originally posted by blinker12
I don't have the time right now to go back and look for specific articles to back this up. But Lindsey has said in interviews that Stevie was upset with the album's sequencing.

YES THANK YOU! I said this yesterday when someone asked how we knew that Stevie didn't win the sequencing argument. In return they bit my head off because this was apparently never said. Does anyone remember this source? Not that I care anymore, it's just for my own curiosity really.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by blinker12
But I wish you would retire your sweeping, negative generalizations about Stevie, which have no basis in fact.

You can't be serious. If I say someone is the "better person," it has to be based on fact? Fact has nothing to do with it. It's perception.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
In all seriousness, if I had a choice, I would hang out with Lindsey as opposed to Stevie. I can relate to him more and he seems like he's become quite relaxed and sober about life in recent years. He also seems like the kind of guy you could joke around with but also could get into really serious conversations.

About ten or eleven years ago, I don't think I would have wanted to hang out with Lindsey, even if I had the opportunity. I didn't care for the way he came off in interviews, and I felt that he wouldn't be the most enjoyable of conversational partners.
I'll also admit that, as Fleetwood Mac fan, I was put off by his constant comments about "that band"... as if he didn't even wish to utter the name "Fleetwood Mac" anymore.

I still loved his music, and I was (and still am) absolutely enamoured with 'Out Of The Cradle'... but I wouldn't have wanted to hang out with him.

Nowadays though, he seems like a much more relaxed person, like you said. He seems more upbeat, and would be a fun guy to pal around with.

In addition, I always have, and still do, think that Stevie would be extremely fun to hang out with too. Many of the journalists who have interviewed her over the years, have said she's a blast to talk to, and makes you feel comfortable and at ease, as if you've known her your whole life.
She's a marvelous raconteur, and those types of people are always fun to talk with.
Plus she seems like a genuinely compassionate person, which scores a lot of points in my eyes.

I have a feeling that both Lindsey and Stevie would be great fun to hang around these days.