what is this i don't even

Zombie · #1 03-14-2010, 08:29 PM

Yet another good reason not to live in Utah.

I despair for the human race, friends and neighbors. Completely despair.

jannieC · #2 03-14-2010, 08:37 PM

I don't even either.

Those statistics are frightening.

bluefox4000 · #3 03-14-2010, 08:38 PM

I read this. Just another step in our de-evolution

Mick

vivfox · #4 03-14-2010, 08:57 PM

What I gather from this new bill is the State of Utah trying to protect the rights of unborn children whose mothers are purposely harming their unborn. In this article it talks about a 17 year old girl who decided she didn't want to have her baby because her boyfriend left her. So she hired some kid to beat the **** out of her and to try to kill her baby so she would miscarriage. IMO she should be in jail for that.

Regular miscarriages that are not the fault of anyone will still not be considered illegal, just intentional ones. Sounds good to me.

Zombie · #5 03-14-2010, 08:59 PM

Yeah.

The possibilities of this frighten me. Even if they won't actually PROSECUTE you for falling down the stairs and losing a baby, won't there have to be an investigation of some kind, to determine whether you had your miscarriage "knowingly" or not? And who gets to make that call?

All sorts of scary scenarios play out in my head, like:

I get in a car accident due to ice on the road, even though the weather isn't really bad - just a typical winter day. I miscarry. Is that my bad for being out on the road in the first place when there might be ice on the road?

I don't know I'm pregnant and get on a plane. I miscarry. Should I be prosecuted because I got on a plane and pregnant chicks aren't supposed to fly? Is that only true for late term pregnancy, or can they blame flying when you're not very far along, as well?

Whether or not they are asshole enough to try to prosecute a woman for a scenario like either of those, one imagines they will still "have to" investigate to figure out if you miscarried because you're just "unlucky" like that or because you're clearly an incompetent female with no regard for the value of human life, you sick whore, you. I have never had a miscarriage, but a few of my friends have, and I know how traumatic it was for them - they blamed themselves enough, even when there wasn't a damn thing they could have done about it, and I can't imagine how horrifying it would be to have cops come snooping around during such a tragic time to accuse them of just that.

Utah, you make me sick.

Zombie · #6 03-14-2010, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivfox

What I gather from this new bill is the State of Utah trying to protect the rights of unborn children whose mothers are purposely harming their unborn. In this article it talks about a 17 year old girl who decided she didn't want to have her baby because her boyfriend left her. So she hired some kid to beat the **** out of her and to try to kill her baby so she would miscarriage. IMO she should be in jail for that.

Regular miscarriages that are not the fault of anyone will still not be considered illegal, just intentional ones. Sounds good to me.

Regardless of moral position on abortion, a 17 year old girl in Utah - especially like the one that you're talking about, who lived in a very rural area and in poverty - is not likely to have access to alternatives. It may be that she didn't know what else to do - how was she going to get a "proper" abortion?

Whether it's coathangers or fists, when we don't allow women to have easy access to sexual health education, prenatal and reproductive care, this is the result.

LiamMcConville · #7 03-14-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie

Regardless of moral position on abortion, a 17 year old girl in Utah - especially like the one that you're talking about, who lived in a very rural area and in poverty - is not likely to have access to alternatives. It may be that she didn't know what else to do - how was she going to get a "proper" abortion?

Whether it's coathangers or fists, when we don't allow women to have easy access to sexual health education, prenatal and reproductive care, this is the result.

Are you retarded?

Zombie · #8 03-14-2010, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiamMcConville

Are you retarded?

Yes, actually! I must admit that your powers of deduction are exceedingly keen, Miss Marple. I'm impressed. As it so happens, my helmet's in the mail even as we type and I'm hoping to go pick it up from the post office tomorrow - y'know, just as soon as I'm finished licking all the windows in the house. Window-licking = my favorite pastime!

It's right up there with presenting reasonable outrage over the idea that certain members of government seem to not only think they should have the right to dictate what I voluntarily choose to do with my uterus, but also that they should have the right to potentially dictate what I involuntarily do with it.

Seriously, though - is that the best you can come up with? Calling me mentally disabled because you don't agree with my position, like there's something wrong with being mentally disabled? You one of those people that thinks "retarded" is synonymous with being stupid?

Golly. This is exciting! What's next? Gonna call me gay? Gonna ask me who lit the wick on my tampon?

Tenterhooks, my friend. I'm on them.

chelluversu · #9 03-14-2010, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie

Regardless of moral position on abortion, a 17 year old girl in Utah - especially like the one that you're talking about, who lived in a very rural area and in poverty - is not likely to have access to alternatives. It may be that she didn't know what else to do - how was she going to get a "proper" abortion?

Whether it's coathangers or fists, when we don't allow women to have easy access to sexual health education, prenatal and reproductive care, this is the result.

There's always adoption...
And why is she pregnant in the first place?

LiamMcConville · #10 03-14-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie

Yes, actually! I must admit that your powers of deduction are exceedingly keen, Miss Marple. I'm impressed. As it so happens, my helmet's in the mail even as we type and I'm hoping to go pick it up from the post office tomorrow - y'know, just as soon as I'm finished licking all the windows in the house. Window-licking = my favorite pastime!

What?

Quote:

It's right up there with presenting reasonable outrage over the idea that certain members of government seem to not only think they should have the right to dictate what I voluntarily choose to do with my uterus, but also that they should have the right to potentially dictate what I involuntarily do with it.

What?

Quote:

Seriously, though - is that the best you can come up with? Calling me mentally disabled because you don't agree with my position, like there's something wrong with being mentally disabled? You one of those people that thinks "retarded" is synonymous with being stupid?

What?

Quote:

Golly. This is exciting! What's next? Gonna call me gay? Gonna ask me who lit the wick on my tampon?

Tenterhooks, my friend. I'm on them.

What?

My point is - it's an absolute joke that you attempt to legitimize a young woman having herself beaten to kill her unborn baby. She deserves to go to jail.

Regardless of the lacking "easy access to sexual health education, prenatal and reproductive care, this is the result", there is no excuse for her actions.

Zombie · #11 03-14-2010, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chelluversu

There's always adoption...
And why is she pregnant in the first place?

Why does it matter "why" she was pregnant in the first place?

And yes, there is adoption, but, again - we're talking about a 17 year old girl in a very rural area, living in poverty, in what is likely one of the most conservative, religious states in the country. Quite the scary situation, I should think, for someone so young.

The act of bringing up this girl's case and using it as the impetus for just one more way to crack down on reproductive rights is intellectually dishonest and reprehensible on the part of these politicians. People hear that this is the reason for the law, and they go, "Oh okay," and look the other way without examining any other possible ramifications (see also: Iraq, war in).

You have to remember that when a law like this is passed, it will eventually affect everyone. And once the ball is rolling, it's hell trying to get it stopped.

Zombie · #12 03-14-2010, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiamMcConville

What?

What?

What?

What?

My point is - it's an absolute joke that you attempt to legitimize a young woman having herself beaten to kill her unborn baby. She deserves to go to jail.

Regardless of the lacking "easy access to sexual health education, prenatal and reproductive care, this is the result", there is no excuse for her actions.

If that was your point, you should've said that in the first place instead of attempting to call names. You can call me "retarded" all you want. I know quite a few "retarded" people and they're pretty awesome.

That said, last I checked, Roe v. Wade was still standing. Would you be equally as outraged if she'd had an abortion performed by a doctor? I'm not making excuses for her or trying to legitimize anything - that's not my job nor is it my point here.

The point here is not that this girl did something that may or may not have been something people may consider wrong. The point here is that it's being used as a poster child, as it were, for yet another measure being undertaken to control what women choose to do with their own uteruses.

paleshadow · #13 03-15-2010, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie

Regardless of moral position on abortion, a 17 year old girl in Utah - especially like the one that you're talking about, who lived in a very rural area and in poverty - is not likely to have access to alternatives. It may be that she didn't know what else to do - how was she going to get a "proper" abortion?

Whether it's coathangers or fists, when we don't allow women to have easy access to sexual health education, prenatal and reproductive care, this is the result.

Well, I know what you are saying, but the girl in question did manage to dig up $150 bucks to pay someone to beat the hell out of her. Devils advocate, someone that fking nuts shouldn't be having kids anyway.

LiamMcConville · #14 03-15-2010, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie

If that was your point, you should've said that in the first place instead of attempting to call names. You can call me "retarded" all you want. I know quite a few "retarded" people and they're pretty awesome.

That said, last I checked, Roe v. Wade was still standing. Would you be equally as outraged if she'd had an abortion performed by a doctor? I'm not making excuses for her or trying to legitimize anything - that's not my job nor is it my point here.

The point here is not that this girl did something that may or may not have been something people may consider wrong. The point here is that it's being used as a poster child, as it were, for yet another measure being undertaken to control what women choose to do with their own uteruses.

K.

Zombie · #15 03-15-2010, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paleshadow

Well, I know what you are saying, but the girl in question did manage to dig up $150 bucks to pay someone to beat the hell out of her. Devils advocate, someone that fking nuts shouldn't be having kids anyway.

She did. Abortions cost a lot more than that, though. And we don't know her situation, either - did she have an actual support system in her family? One that would make it possible to carry the baby to term and then adopt it out or take care of it herself? If she COULD scrape together enough for an abortion, would she actually have been able to get it? Would she know HOW to go about getting it? Etc, etc.

Hell, was she even properly aware of all of her options?

I'm not condoning her actions. Her actions aren't my problem. My problem is with the possible ramifications of this law and what it could mean for MY reproductive rights, as well as those of every other woman in the country.

(not arguing at you, just trying to clarify my position further)