SYW: and how can lindsey make you cry

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

But Lindsey's comment was made near the beginning of the documentary, immediately after Stevie played the "Phoenix Four" ("Say You Will," "Destiny Rules," "Silver Girl" and "Illume"). She had only just joined the band to begin recording.

It seemed to be later, as they were shopping around to find a record company, that the double album concept became a sticking point and Lindsey felt he "didn't have an ally in the band."

But John and Mick had already been recording with Lindsey for months before that. I think Lindsey started converting his solo songs to Mac songs and the men went into the studio, with Lindsey believing there would be a double album -- with enough room for everything he contemplated.

To me, Lindsey's "yet" means "after all." I see him as reviving an old argument that's he'd lost rather than discussing a matter that had not yet been decided.

Aside from that, I don't think DR presents events in chronological order at all.



Michele

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Aside from that, I don't think DR presents events in chronological order at all.

Right. For example, Lindsey is seen playing Destiny Rules on the guitar BEFORE Stevie shows up with the Phoenix Four.

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

Lindsey absolutely was fighting for a double album throughout the documentary though. But his little diatribe about "not involving himself in the project..." was more about the type of songs that made the album, not the length of the album itself. His main goal for Say You Will was to "reinvent the band in the most credible way possible." Those are his exact words. He absolutely wanted a double album as a part of that, because he felt it proved the breadth of material the band was capable of. But he also wanted to put a good deal of 'edgy' songs on the album, and greatly feared the album being cut down to a single album would mean the band would pick through his songs, and only grab the "safest" ones.

He makes the comment about involving himself in the project while in the car, referring to "this set of songs." When talking with Mick about the issue, he refers to the fact that he could do what everyone wants him to do, pull the safest songs and give them to this project and save the rest of the songs for a solo album (to which Mick makes a WEIRRRRRRRRD face; what's with THAT??). But then he stops himself and says that he doesn't want these songs pulled apart and made to be something they weren't supposed to be. Ergo: to be what they were supposed to be, it's gotta be a double CD.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by michelej1

To me, Lindsey's "yet" means "after all." I see him as reviving an old argument that's he'd lost rather than discussing a matter that had not yet been decided.

If that were the case, and he already felt like he'd lost the double album argument during the time-period while Stevie was still on the road, why wouldn't he have put up a fuss then? That would've been the time to threaten to take your masters and go home, if a double album meant so much to you. Why wait until later when you've put another three or four months of work into the project, knowing that no one else was on board with the idea?

Originally Posted by michelej1

Aside from that, I don't think DR presents events in chronological order at all.

I think there were smaller moments that were perhaps presented out of chronological order (recording backing vocals here, discussing a song there) -- but I think the major sequences were shown in the order the events happened.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

Right. For example, Lindsey is seen playing Destiny Rules on the guitar BEFORE Stevie shows up with the Phoenix Four.

If I recall correctly, Stevie's demo of "Destiny Rules" didn't include that little riff. So it's at least possible that it was something Lindsey was working on before he even heard Stevie's demo, and then decided that it fit with that particular song.

But of course it's also quite possible that it was simply shown out of chronological order.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

If that were the case, and he already felt like he'd lost the double album argument during the time-period while Stevie was still on the road, why wouldn't he have put up a fuss then? That would've been the time to threaten.

He probably did put up a fuss then. I don't think the production negotiations started when the documentary did and I don't think the documentary filming just started when Stevie got there, which is why we had footage of the men setting up the room, unfurling the poster of the three of them, etc.

If Lindsey hadn't been promised a double album earlier, from the get go, then I don't know how he came to assume there would be one later. It seems to be news to him when he points out that the masters are his. If he didn't go into it thinking there would be a double album, why would he start thinking it 8 months later? When he made that comment it didn't sound like he was suddenly trying to pressure them into going from a single album to a double. It sounded to me like he was trying to keep them from backing off of, reneging on, a double.

And when Mick talks about what happens, he indicates that he and Lindsey talked about a double early on and then Mick realized it would not be practical.

I guess you're saying that it was something talked about, but never promised to Lindsey. Yeah, I guess the way DR is chopped up you could think that. I get the reverse impression: a promise that unraveled.

Michele

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

That's not what he said at all. He said he wouldn't have involved himself in the project had he thought all the band was going to do was to pick through his songs and take the "safest" ones, aka the most commercial pop sounding ones. I think Lindsey's bottom line for Say You Will was to reinvent Fleetwood Mac's image... for them to push some envelopes, and to be viewed as something other than the soft rock dinosaur they're viewed as. The double album thing was just a part of that. He wanted a double album to show what the band was capable of in terms of spectrum of material type, and he also thought it might be a safeguard against the band scavenging for purely "safe" songs from him.

Unfortunately, after all that about how great they were gonna be, the first thing they churned out to the world was frekkin Peace keeper. to borrow a line from the song "ba bwa bu bwa bwa bwa."

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I've always felt Stevie's coldly sitting across the room while Lindsey cried and put his emotions out there bare was a form of revenge.

From that grainy video on the security camera that seems to be mounted above the mixing console it's hard to tell what she's doing. Her face is turned from the camera. She could have been teary eyed herself.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

From that grainy video on the security camera that seems to be mounted above the mixing console it's hard to tell what she's doing. Her face is turned from the camera. She could have been teary eyed herself.

Yeah, she looked pretty tense, fingering her hair. Cold and removed is not really the vibe I was getting from her.

Michele

[marinnette]

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

From that grainy video on the security camera that seems to be mounted above the mixing console it's hard to tell what she's doing. Her face is turned from the camera. She could have been teary eyed herself.

You're right, I hadn't thought about it.