SYW: and how can lindsey make you cry

[marinnette]

I had never seen that part!! I've been crying a lot with this. and...well, the "bittersweet" falling of the snow outside and going back to university tomorrow may have help to make me feel...soooo blue (and pissed off)

I'M TALKING ABOUT 4.33.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgYZrudkAqA&NR=1



but stevie... can you just HOLD HIM please? is there any more footage on this scene on the internet? My question is, what is he talking about exactly? my fairy tale interpretation is:

"If you haven't noticed I'm so thrilled to" (be with you again)
"I don't even wanna" (tell you and express you the way I feel about you being here with me again, or something like that)
"It'll just make me cry" (What for? if I could, baby I'd give you my world. How can I, when you wouldn't take it from me?)

But I know there's somebody around here who could make this sound much better. she's great in making of these kind of scenes flesh and bones...(but she must start writing for "california dreaming" time) hehehehe


oh my god! somebody turn my stupid tear duct off, please

[louielouie2000]

I've always felt Stevie's coldly sitting across the room while Lindsey cried and put his emotions out there bare was a form of revenge. They fought a lot it sounded like during the making of SYW, and I just don't think she wanted to fuel his emotions, or she didn't buy into them. I think at this point to Stevie, the Mac had become purely a business... and Lindsey was finally rounding the corner and realizing it meant more to him. I think it's cool Lindsey realized how special them getting together to make that album was, but in many ways he still acted like a bull headed child throughout the process too. And I think that's why Stevie didn't get up and hug him, or even really respond to his emotional outpour. It's definitely one of the more telling moments of the Destiny Rules documentary for sure.

[michelej1]

I don't think Stevie was being cold or withholding at all. I feel her reaction was controlled because I really don't think she was that comfortable with the camera being on them constantly and her response to that would have been different had they not been on camera. I think she thought it would be more intrusive on Lindsey's feelings if she responded emotionally in front of the lens.

I also think Lindsey was laying things on just a little thick. I don't think he was all that overcome. My own response would have been to walk across the room and bop him.

I think Lindsey said something about John being the way he is now and I liked that part especially.

When she talked about Illume, she said that Lindsey teared up when he heard it and, of course, that made her cry too. I think in private, cameras off, if he displayed an emotional response, she would too.

Actually, this reminds me of Sonny and Cher on Letterman. The famous reunion. When they performed I Got You Babe, Cher said she felt really removed from it all because Sonny had always been the strong one, the one she leaned on. In that moment he was crying and she had to be supportive. The reversal came as a shock. Not only was he weeping , their daughter standing in the wings was crying. Even Sonny's wife was crying as well. The spectacle was too much. Cher said it made her feel very alienated. Not because she didn't care, but because she didn't care to expose herself and her feelings publicly.

Michele

[kennation]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

I've always felt Stevie's coldly sitting across the room while Lindsey cried and put his emotions out there bare was a form of revenge. They fought a lot it sounded like during the making of SYW, and I just don't think she wanted to fuel his emotions, or she didn't buy into them. I think at this point to Stevie, the Mac had become purely a business... and Lindsey was finally rounding the corner and realizing it meant more to him. I think it's cool Lindsey realized how special them getting together to make that album was, but in many ways he still acted like a bull headed child throughout the process too. And I think that's why Stevie didn't get up and hug him, or even really respond to his emotional outpour. It's definitely one of the more telling moments of the Destiny Rules documentary for sure.

Wow, I never saw it that way, but I agree on many levels. I see where LB is coming from. Sometimes, you got to look away and cry. Here, Stevie seems to be tough and typical Stevie- Maybe she was more intense than usual, if there could be such a thing, lol...

[marinnette]

it sounds to me this guys always have a tear on their cheeks. don't get me wrong, I don't blame stevie at all. I'm sure I would have done like her too. I think that she was right all the time they were fighting, also when it comes to the producer quarrel. I didn't like SYW production: like stevie says, it make all her songs sound much colder, and even lindsey's. you just have to listen to Say Goodbye's album version and the live one and compare.

[BellaDonna93]

Well, I have this dvd and I think that is that part when they're arguing about if they're going to do a double album (which is what Lindsey want) or a normal album (which everyone, exept Lindsey and his manager, wants). That's what they're talking about...

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by marinnette

it sounds to me this guys always have a tear on their cheeks. don't get me wrong, I don't blame stevie at all. I'm sure I would have done like her too. I think that she was right all the time they were fighting, also when it comes to the producer quarrel. I didn't like SYW production: like stevie says, it make all her songs sound much colder, and even lindsey's. you just have to listen to Say Goodbye's album version and the live one and compare.

But Stevie wasn't arguing about the sound of any of her songs on the documentary, unless you count the mixing debaucle and who she wanted to use.

As for the album length, I think Lindsey was right on that, if for no other reason than that Mick seemed to have used the promise of a double album to lure Lindsey into the project. It seems he was drawn in by Mick under false pretenses and then got the bait and switch. But what else is new with Mick?

Regarding the mixing, I found Karen very annoying. If Lindsey and Stevie had been having a one on one conversation, it would have been different, but the "dead honest" Karen's involvement was bound to make Lindsey reflexively withdraw. And it made me want to jump through the screen. One of my favorite parts is when Lindsey calls Tony and says they're pointing fingers at them and Stevie says, "Lindsey! Why would you say that!" I just laughed and laughed.

I think Lindsey and Stevie probably could have gotten the problem resolved a lot quicker if they'd been talking about it just the 2 of them.

Michele

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by michelej1

But Stevie wasn't arguing about the sound of any of her songs on the documentary, unless you count the mixing debaucle and who she wanted to use.

I think this is what Stevie was referring to when she talked about how the songs don't make her feel warm and fuzzy anymore. I always took that to mean the mixes/production/sound of the songs. The way the doc is edited, however, does not make clear what exactly makes her feel this way, so that's just my assumption.

Originally Posted by michelej1

As for the album length, I think Lindsey was right on that, if for no other reason than that Mick seemed to have used the promise of a double album to lure Lindsey into the project. It seems he was drawn in by Mick under false pretenses and then got the bait and switch. But what else is new with Mick?

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes Sometimes discussion on the double-album comes up, but this is the best description of what went down. I wish the documentary had really explored this too!

Originally Posted by michelej1

Regarding the mixing, I found Karen very annoying. If Lindsey and Stevie had been having a one on one conversation, it would have been different, but the "dead honest" Karen's involvement was bound to make Lindsey reflexively withdraw. And it made me want to jump through the screen. One of my favorite parts is when Lindsey calls Tony and says they're pointing fingers at them and Stevie says, "Lindsey! Why would you say that!" I just laughed and laughed.

I think Lindsey and Stevie probably could have gotten the problem resolved a lot quicker if they'd been talking about it just the 2 of them.

Yes, I think you also really captured the dynamic in that confusingly-edited/shot section of the documentary.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by michelej1

As for the album length, I think Lindsey was right on that, if for no other reason than that Mick seemed to have used the promise of a double album to lure Lindsey into the project. It seems he was drawn in by Mick under false pretenses and then got the bait and switch. But what else is new with Mick?

I always come back to Lindsey's quote to Stevie (after they listened to her "Phoenix Four"), "If you keep writing songs like that, we'll make this a double album yet."

The "yet" implies it wasn't a done deal, which makes me feel that he wasn't promised a double album. It sounds to me like it was more of a possibility that was floated as a potential enticement for him. Otherwise, why wouldn't he just say, "with you writing songs like that, we're going to have a great double album"?

Of course, I know that others see it differently. So who knows.

[TrueFaith77]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I always come back to Lindsey's quote to Stevie (after they listened to her "Phoenix Four"), "If you keep writing songs like that, we'll make this a double album yet."

The "yet" implies it wasn't a done deal, which makes me feel that he wasn't promised a double album. It sounds to me like it was more of a possibility that was floated as a potential enticement for him. Otherwise, why wouldn't he just say, "with you writing songs like that, we're going to have a great double album"?

Of course, I know that others see it differently. So who knows.

But Lindsey also says that he wouldn't have involved himself in this project with this group of songs if it weren't going to be a double album. At the point you're referring to, it was too late to back out and he also knew that the double-album dream was coming under fire, so that was his Lindsey-ish way of stroking Stevie's ego with the double-album concept (in other words, it's not just for him, but for the benefit of her incredible output as well).

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

But Lindsey also says that he wouldn't have involved himself in this project with this group of songs if it weren't going to be a double album. At the point you're referring to, it was too late to back out and he also knew that the double-album dream was coming under fire, so that was his Lindsey-ish way of stroking Stevie's ego with the double-album concept (in other words, it's not just for him, but for the benefit of her incredible output as well).

That's not what he said at all. He said he wouldn't have involved himself in the project had he thought all the band was going to do was to pick through his songs and take the "safest" ones, aka the most commercial pop sounding ones. I think Lindsey's bottom line for Say You Will was to reinvent Fleetwood Mac's image... for them to push some envelopes, and to be viewed as something other than the soft rock dinosaur they're viewed as. The double album thing was just a part of that. He wanted a double album to show what the band was capable of in terms of spectrum of material type, and he also thought it might be a safeguard against the band scavenging for purely "safe" songs from him.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

I always come back to Lindsey's quote to Stevie (after they listened to her "Phoenix Four"), "If you keep writing songs like that, we'll make this a double album yet."
.

I think Lindsey said that after they told him there shouldn't be a double album. So, he felt he'd lost that battle, but was still hopefully kicking around the ashes and trying to get them to change their mind.

Michele

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by louielouie2000

That's not what he said at all. He said he wouldn't have involved himself in the project had he thought all the band was going to do was to pick through his songs and take the "safest" ones, aka the most commercial pop sounding ones.

Actually, he did talk about the album length. I don't have the dvd with me right now, but I think that's what he was talking about in the car when he described what he perceived as Mick's deception.

Michele

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by TrueFaith77

At the point you're referring to, it was too late to back out and he also knew that the double-album dream was coming under fire, so that was his Lindsey-ish way of stroking Stevie's ego with the double-album concept (in other words, it's not just for him, but for the benefit of her incredible output as well).

Originally Posted by michelej1

I think Lindsey said that after they told him there shouldn't be a double album. So, he felt he'd lost that battle, but was still hopefully kicking around the ashes and trying to get them to change their mind.

But Lindsey's comment was made near the beginning of the documentary, immediately after Stevie played the "Phoenix Four" ("Say You Will," "Destiny Rules," "Silver Girl" and "Illume"). She had only just joined the band to begin recording.

It seemed to be later, as they were shopping around to find a record company, that the double album concept became a sticking point and Lindsey felt he "didn't have an ally in the band."

[louielouie2000]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Actually, he did talk about the album length. I don't have the dvd with me right now, but I think that's what he was talking about in the car when he described what he perceived as Mick's deception.

Michele

You're absolutely right about that, he said he felt Mick betrayed him because he backed out of wanting to do a double album, but didn't have the cajones to tell Lindsey he changed his mind. I sense there is a history of distrust between Lindsey and Mick regarding Mick saying whatever it takes to keep the band together, and moving forward.

Lindsey absolutely was fighting for a double album throughout the documentary though. But his little diatribe about "not involving himself in the project..." was more about the type of songs that made the album, not the length of the album itself. His main goal for Say You Will was to "reinvent the band in the most credible way possible." Those are his exact words. He absolutely wanted a double album as a part of that, because he felt it proved the breadth of material the band was capable of. But he also wanted to put a good deal of 'edgy' songs on the album, and greatly feared the album being cut down to a single album would mean the band would pick through his songs, and only grab the "safest" ones.