Oh Wise and Worldy Ledgies

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by carrie721

it's a religious ceremony. it should not be recognized by the government.

+1

Just because you "marry" your girlfriend in a church shouldn't make your relationship more important - in ANY way - than Carrie becoming "united" with her girlfriend at the courthouse.

That's not to say that someone shouldn't be allowed to have their ceremony in a church. But it's pigheaded for the church wedding people to act like their lives are the only ones that matter.

If you aren't gay and you don't want to get married to someone of the same sex, you have NO RIGHT to say that someone else shouldn't. Just don't do it! Woo! Freedom of religion is also freedom to not have a religion, and this "abomination in the eyes of God" doesn't mean **** to a lot of people, so it should have NO EFFECT, because the non-believers are still bound to all the same laws. Plus, what's up with discriminating against people because of who they LOVE anyway? Some argue that it will ruin our society. I say they are ruining our society.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by carrie721

it's a religious ceremony. it should not be recognized by the government.

Officiants generally are public servants. It doesnt matter the type of ceremony. Officiants dont have to be minsters. Just because they marry someone in a church doesnt mean the union isnt legal...it could be in a backyard, in a bathroom, a courthouse, or a bordello. The private location of the wedding itself doesnt matter. Would you deny all those who marry the location of their choice? I doubt it. And I dont think I'd even be so bold in my Ledge-labeled effrontery.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Would you deny all those who marry the location of their choice? I doubt it.

Would you deny some of those the ability to marry the person of their choosing? Apparently.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Sarah

Would you deny some of those the ability to marry the person of their choosing? Apparently.

I never, ever, said that.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

I never, ever, said that.

No no. It's not "you" as in "YOU, mylittledemon". It's "you" as in "everyone in society". I should have clarified that better.

[bretonbanquet]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

For all intents and purposes, we live in the greatest nation in the world. We have everything. I mean, we are spoiled. Traveling abroad will teach you that.

I don't think you do. You don't have everything, no country does. Spoiled, yeah - all westerners are spoiled compared to Africans, Indians etc.. there are really crappy places in the world to live. But I doubt the US is really any better than most other western countries. Just different. If travelling abroad taught you that, you haven't been to the right countries.

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

I've met more than a handful of people from Malaysia, China, Ireland, Finland, Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Canada. Everyone I met on my travels agreed the US was the greatest nation in the world. And I'm not saying that like...look at us and our big balls...I mean in terms of wealth, economic status, etc. And anyone I met along the way that had been to the US said they enjoyed it here.

I've been to a lot of places, and I couldn't agree less. I've never met anyone who thought the US was the greatest nation in the world, including Americans. More to the point, I've never met anyone who even had an opinion on such a trite notion as "the best country in the world". Wealth, economic status? What do you mean? Individual citizens or nations as a whole? And why does that make anywhere a great place to live? But yes, for sure, everyone I've met said they enjoyed the US, but not necessarily more so than everywhere else. There are a lot of great things about the US, but there are a lot of great things about most countries. That's why people travel

As for the Ukraine, I've never been there, but I've been to Hungary and Slovakia, which border it. I can agree with everything people have said here. It can be damn cold, btw Some areas, especially in cities, look pretty grey and miserable at certain times of the year, and it is poor. It doesn't matter what you wear, but it may be best not to wear anything too expensive. Just look ordinary. People there won't be bothered about brands and stuff. The police shouldn't bother you, but carrying some form of ID, like a copy of your passport - that's a good idea. The people should be friendly and helpful, but of course there are always bad apples. Just like anywhere else.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend driving there, unless you're a pretty confident driver. I've driven in Slovakia and the standard of driving there was pretty low.. apart from the fact that you won't readily understand the road signs. But buses and trains will be very good, especially in the cities, and very cheap. In fact, everything will be cheap Eastern Europe is a fine place to travel in, you'll enjoy it, no question

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Sarah

No no. It's not "you" as in "YOU, mylittledemon". It's "you" as in "everyone in society". I should have clarified that better.

Gotcha. But what does that have to do with people marrying in a church or any other place? An officiant doesnt have to be a minister, or a Christian for that matter. My friend Dan got married in a church in Atlanta and the officiant was a friend of his who wasnt even in ministry. But the guy can still marry people.

[DrummerDeanna]

See how much better things are getting??

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_6989447

DENVER—A same-sex couple who refused to leave the Denver clerk and recorder's office Monday after they were denied a marriage license were cited with trespassing.
Kate Burns and Sheila Schroeder of Englewood had said before the sit-in that they expected to be denied. They refused to leave the clerk and recorder's office, though it was closing.

The couple contended they should be entitled to all the federal benefits of a heterosexual married couple.

Colorado voters in November passed a ballot proposal banning gay marriage. They also rejected a proposal to give same-sex couples some of the same legal benefits as married spouses.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Officiants generally are public servants. It doesnt matter the type of ceremony. Officiants dont have to be minsters. Just because they marry someone in a church doesnt mean the union isnt legal...it could be in a backyard, in a bathroom, a courthouse, or a bordello. The private location of the wedding itself doesnt matter. Would you deny all those who marry the location of their choice? I doubt it. And I dont think I'd even be so bold in my Ledge-labeled effrontery.

i'm not saying that people can't hold a ceremony wherever they want. i'm saying that that private ceremony should not be legally binding - going to the courthouse and getting the piece of paper that denotes your benefactor is the only thing that should be legally binding.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by carrie721

i'm not saying that people can't hold a ceremony wherever they want. i'm saying that that private ceremony should not be legally binding - going to the courthouse and getting the piece of paper that denotes your benefactor is the only thing that should be legally binding.

Yes, that's the point, exactly.

But its the people who want to have their big church marriage that are saying it's wrong for same-sex marriage to be legal. Their argument is because it's "wrong" ... I assume they mean in the "eyes of God".

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by bretonbanquet

I don't think you do. You don't have everything, no country does. Spoiled, yeah - all westerners are spoiled compared to Africans, Indians etc.. there are really crappy places in the world to live. But I doubt the US is really any better than most other western countries. Just different. If travelling abroad taught you that, you haven't been to the right countries.

I've been to a lot of places, and I couldn't agree less. I've never met anyone who thought the US was the greatest nation in the world, including Americans. More to the point, I've never met anyone who even had an opinion on such a trite notion as "the best country in the world". Wealth, economic status? What do you mean? Individual citizens or nations as a whole? And why does that make anywhere a great place to live? But yes, for sure, everyone I've met said they enjoyed the US, but not necessarily more so than everywhere else. There are a lot of great things about the US, but there are a lot of great things about most countries. That's why people travel
)

Well I've been to the UK and met a great bunch of Irishfolk and Brits alike. My friend Chris, who's from Manchester is the first to tell you America is #1, followed by the UK. He lived here in the US for 2 years.

And again, we dont have everything..let me clarify. We have more than the majority of the rest of the world. We're spoiled and we dont know it. Thats generally it.

I didnt say traveling abroad taught me that the US was the best. Dont confuse what I'm saying. It taught me that we're spoiled...that we have everything compared to other places and that we are ungrateful.

WHether you agree with the US being the greatest country in the world or not, its still true. You may like other places better. I liked New Zealand better than the US. Pity I couldnt stay there. But, the whole "greatest country on earth" thing was kinda tongue in cheek too. All my UK friends would request I say that, then nearly spit their pints out.

[carrie721]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

See how much better things are getting??

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_6989447

DENVER—A same-sex couple who refused to leave the Denver clerk and recorder's office Monday after they were denied a marriage license were cited with trespassing.
Kate Burns and Sheila Schroeder of Englewood had said before the sit-in that they expected to be denied. They refused to leave the clerk and recorder's office, though it was closing.

The couple contended they should be entitled to all the federal benefits of a heterosexual married couple.

Colorado voters in November passed a ballot proposal banning gay marriage. They also rejected a proposal to give same-sex couples some of the same legal benefits as married spouses.

lord. ohio passed a similar proposal a couple years ago

it's so depressing.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

All my UK friends would request I say that, then nearly spit their pints out.

is waste of beer

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by carrie721

i'm not saying that people can't hold a ceremony wherever they want. i'm saying that that private ceremony should not be legally binding - going to the courthouse and getting the piece of paper that denotes your benefactor is the only thing that should be legally binding.

That will never happen. In the very LEAST, it wont happen because we cant be bothered to go stand in line at the courthouse for hours only to be told to go to the back of the line again because you forgot to fill a certain form out. Havent you been to a courthouse lately? HAHA! Really...that was grand.

[mikeschmike]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

That will never happen. In the very LEAST, it wont happen because we cant be bothered to go stand in line at the courthouse for hours only to be told to go to the back of the line again because you forgot to fill a certain form out. Havent you been to a courthouse lately? HAHA! Really...that was grand.

Better then being told to get the hell out of there because you were a disgrace to the word of god. Just sayin...