Lindsey on Jimmy Kimmel!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

2. I only call someone a shallow american if the arguments they use are shallow and typical american: read:concerning money and success through popularity. Or arrogant statements about knowing better than the artist himself on a moment he's taking risks.

I never once said that I know better than Lindsey. In fact, I have often on these boards stated that I feel at the end of the day, despite our opinions, it's up to the ARTIST to determine what it is they want to convey in their songs.
I merely expressed MY opinion (and I even stated that it's just MY opinion) that I feel he's giving the wrong impression to people who aren't already fans and open to what he's doing.

I don't believe I'm being a "shallow American" (which sounds like a very prejudiced point of view, if you ask me) by stating that the reason he's even making these TV appearances, is to promote (ie: sell) his album.
It's why Brad Pitt visits Jay Leno when he has a new movie. It's why Ann Coulter stops by to see Larry King when she has another book to peddle. And it's why Lindsey Buckingham is showing up on 'The Jimmy Kimmel Show' and 'The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson' and Country Freakin' Music Television.

I'd also like to point out that the ONLY reason I want Lindsey to sell more copies of his album, is that I think more people should hear what he's doing.
I couldn't care less how much money he makes off this thing or how popular it is -- none of that pays my bills or affects my life in any way.

Originally Posted by shackin'up

4. you have a right to your own opinion, but your assumption that he's choosing the WRONG impression just hit me. I really can live with good argumented criticism on Lindsey, but I must say, without more intense contributions from Carnevaca, Trackaghost, FaceOfGlass, Stefan, Seteca, MadforMac, Jyqm etcetera this board is suffering. And there are just few people capable of putting me thinking about his music with a more critical ear. Believe me dude, that's the only thing I'm looking for over here.

Why is it that I'm incapable of discussing Lindsey's music? Am I not a fan too? Or do I somehow not count because I don't think everything he does is gold? That's the same line of thinking that gives the Chiffonheads a bad name.

I offered an opinion and even stated that it was just my opinion.
I happen to think it's a weak song and that there are far better representations of 'Under The Skin' -- even when considering the suggestion you made in regards to why he'd choose to play "Not Too Late."

And it strikes me that the majority of the people you named, would basically be expressing the exact opinions you express about Lindsey's music... so where's the "good argumented criticism" and intellectual stimulation in that?

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

So there you go. It's actually not whingy at all, it's Lindsey saying I've been an idiot and I'm fed up being sulky, instead I'm going to be happy and try and be as good as these so-called critics say I am. I cringed when I first heard the lyrics, but I've since come to really like them.

Despite Gerald's position that I'm shallow and close-minded, I think I've demonstrated in the past that I'm willing to continually revisit a song in the hopes that it'll eventually win me over. So perhaps someday I'll come around to liking "Not Too Late." It's just a shame that for the time being, he apparently feels my opinion in regards to it is something to be discounted... in no small part, it would seem, because of my nationality.

Originally Posted by trackaghost

It's quite possible that Lindsey instead thought, you know most people are mentioning this song in reviews, I feel really proud of it and the song represents what I feel the album is.

I myself like the song, so maybe Lindsey and the people round him do too. Maybe Lindsey said: "what if I play Not Too Soon on TV tonight?", and his friends and family, even the record company, responded "Great idea, we love that song too!"

Even though it's not a favorite of mine, I wouldn't have scoffed at him performing it on one of these shows. I'm just annoyed that, as I said, it's become the lone representation of this album when it comes to his TV appearances, when I feel he has so much more to offer.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Even though it's not a favorite of mine, I wouldn't have scoffed at him performing it on one of these shows. I'm just annoyed that, as I said, it's become the lone representation of this album when it comes to his TV appearances, when I feel he has so much more to offer.

Oh I can definitely understand that. I was responding to Gerald too in a way, because I don't think it's Lindsey making a statement of "This is my art, like it or lump it". I think the song has plenty of commercial appeal, just perhaps to a slightly different audience. And yeah, it would be nice to see Lindsey play a few different songs, but he is pretty set in his ways, and he's obviously decided Not Too Late is the perfect representation of the album, and I wouldn't be surprised, as I said before, if it's because all the reviews did specifically mention it.

[Tusker]

I LOVE It's not too late..I think it's gorgeous, especially the chorus. The words aren't that great, but I love the music. Awesome! It's my favorite on the album.

Then again the songs I seem to love the most, you guys seem to hate. I love "That's all for everyone" and "Mystified" for example, and you guys hate them. The harmonies and melodies on these two are simply beautiful. Anyway...

[wondergirl9847]

I am NOT making the next sentence an Us versus Them statement and I hope nobody else does either. From what I've gathered over 30 years on this Earth, my belief is that Americans have a different taste in music than Europeans.

I like NTL, but it did take a little getting used to. He sings it amazingly live and I do like that he's doing it on the shows. Hearing Big Love for the 1 trillionth time is not really that appealing anymore. LOL Yes, I do wish he would do UTS, but I'm not sure how it sounds with just a guitar. Surely, he could rework it though. Oh well. We don't know why he picked that particular song to do on the show circuit, but perhaps it's because of the similarity of Big Love in its structure.

[BTFLCHLD]

Lindsey knows what's best for him. I do believe he has a message with all of the UTS songs. I think that NTL expresses that there are messages still to be heard and, if the desire is to hear them, one would/should give a listen.

[Nico]

Originally Posted by Tusker

I LOVE It's not too late..I think it's gorgeous, especially the chorus. The words aren't that great, but I love the music. Awesome! It's my favorite on the album.

Then again the songs I seem to love the most, you guys seem to hate. I love "That's all for everyone" and "Mystified" for example, and you guys hate them. The harmonies and melodies on these two are simply beautiful. Anyway...

Not Too Late is great. I didn't care for it at all when I first heard it, but it has really grown on me. I definitely pay attention to the words and the emotional way he sings it more than the guitar, though.

Re: That's All For Everyone...really weird but I was on this one board with a lot of "music-snob" types (you know, the ones who will pick out the most obscure artist/album/song as their personal fave of all time and then when you hear it it's like, "how is that so different from this other person/album/song?") and they absolutely LOVED the song. In fact, it was voted the best song on "Tusk" in their little album poll thread. I was clueless because, in all honesty, it still remains my least favorite LB song of all time. I just can't get into it. But it goes to show that there are many out there- including you- who love it and maybe I'm just out in the cold about it's greatness.

But anyway, my favorite live song from UTS at the mo' is It Was You. I effin love it!

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Why is it that I'm incapable of discussing Lindsey's music? Am I not a fan too? Or do I somehow not count because I don't think everything he does is gold? That's the same line of thinking that gives the Chiffonheads a bad name.
And it strikes me that the majority of the people you named, would basically be expressing the exact opinions you express about Lindsey's music... so where's the "good argumented criticism" and intellectual stimulation in that?

No you're perfectly capable of discussing Lindsey's music, I just say that if you just state that "this impression is WRONG", you're not doing that. I'm glad that you know what gives chiffonheads their bad name.

About the people I named: they do NOT express the same opinion as mine- hell, even Trackaghost doesn't do that in her post in this thread. Gaius and I differ very much in lindsey-taste, I still have sparse contact with Carne, who doesn't agree with me that much, and if you had read the last discussions I had with ChiliD and Madformac, you'd know that we Butted heads bigtime. I don't think you're shallow american, Johnny, and you KNOW that. But when it comes to lindsey you frequently are.

And to be fair, I understand that alot of people think that I love everything Lindsey does, which isn't true. I hate 80 percent of Tango in the night and I've always been critical towards OOTC. On this board I expressed my negative feelings about the use of drumcomputers on that album and the productional sheen of Tango, OOTC and SYW alot. So if I was cheap I'd say you have a very shallow picture of my fandom. The mentioned persons do not have that impression. Ask them.

[skcin]

In defense of Stew, in his original statement, he said he thinks NTL "comes off" as whiny. He didn't say that was his perception. But I'm just a stupid American, what do I know.

[Little Nicki]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I cringed when I first heard the lyrics, but I've since come to really like them.

Your whole post is a great analysis of the song but this sentence is the only part that applies to the audiences that are watching him perform Not Too Late for the first time. I too have come to like this song quite a bit more than when I first heard it, but people getting this as their first impression of Lindsey probably aren't going to be impressed. I cringed when I first heard the lyrics, and I'm a huge fan of his. Some will love the honesty of the lyrics at first, sure, and some may even think they're so bad that they're intrigued, buy the album, and love it. But I assume many "shallow americans" will cringe and think he's a terrible lyricist and lose all interest. I'm sure he has his reasons for doing the song, but I doubt he thinks it will be a big hit and make the album go platinum.

[BTFLCHLD]

Lindsey won't be on next week either...

http://abc.go.com/primetime/jimmykimmel/

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

No you're perfectly capable of discussing Lindsey's music, I just say that if you just state that "this impression is WRONG", you're not doing that. I'm glad that you know what gives chiffonheads their bad name.

Gerald, you know I think you're a really cool guy but I think it would be pretty nice thing to do at this point if you apologised for the "shallow American" comment. You have to admit that Johnny Stew is a Lindsey fan - he has all his albums and enjoys his music, whereas there are plenty of people who post here who wouldn't recognise a solo Lindsey tune if it hit them over the head. It is Christmas time after all.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by Little Nicki

I'm sure he has his reasons for doing the song, but I doubt he thinks it will be a big hit and make the album go platinum.

I think Lindsey ultimately wants to reach an audience who might look at little deeper - and at second glance those lyrics really aren't as vain as they seem: they are thoughtful stuff. Also the casual fan probably won't know about Lindsey's past issues, it probably won't seem as soul-bearing to them. I think it's more cringe-worthy when you know how bitter and jealous Lindsey was for a while.
Most audiences heard Born In The USA and thought Springsteen was singing how proud he was to be an American, but in reality that song is about how badly America treated its Vietnam vets. It's not flag-waving at all it's a criticism of his country. I'm certainly glad Bruce didn't change his lyrics because he was afraid that some people might find them cringe-worthy (and I did when I first heard it).
I don't think Not Too Late is on the same level as that, but lyrics can be deceiving, and those paying attention might find something a little more rewarding in there. And as I said before, there are plenty of people out there, and lots of critics too judging by the reviews, who did find that song particularly striking, so it's no surprise to me that Lindsey has chosen it as the song he wants to represent the album. And let's face it if he went for the popular vote, Down On Rodeo, it would be misleading as most of the album doesn't sound like that.

[gypsysoul]

I agree to a point trackaghost but the fact is, by appearing on tv shows Lindsey IS playing to a big, general audience, most of which won't know him or his work or his past issues.

It's not a question of being American or European, it's about an artist reaching the audience he has chosen to play to.

Whether LB wants to generate sales or raise awareness of his musical ideals on this CD, he still has to make the audience listen to him in the first place before he can make them understand or care about what he is doing.
And he has to do this with a song that connects with the audience on FIRST listen.
Personally i don't think Not too late is that song. The tune is not immediately accessible and the lyrics are too specific to Lindsey the artist for anyone to connect with immediately.

Critics have quoted the lyrics and fans understand what he is saying but on tv he's not playing to the critics and fans. He's playing to someone who may be doing the ironing and has neither the time or inclination to decipher the message of a song he cannot hum along to by an artist he does not know.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Gerald, you know I think you're a really cool guy but I think it would be pretty nice thing to do at this point if you apologised for the "shallow American" comment.

I'm sorry dude.