Lindsey on Jimmy Kimmel!

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by face of glass

To be frank, out of all the songs on UTS Not Too Late is the one that's the most likely to drive away a newcomer to Lindsey's music.

Which is why that's the song he's currently using in these TV performances.

nice winky Gaius, but there's a very true point in there. He wants to impress more than gather new interest. Dumb-to a certain extend, but true.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

He's not insane. He isn't touring and promoting for sales. He does it to make an impression. And he chooses those songs to MAKE the impression-not to sell.

Then he's making the wrong impression... "Not Too Late" is the worst song on the album, IMO.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Then he's making the wrong impression... "Not Too Late" is the worst song on the album, IMO.

Bull**** again, stewie. You're quite good at that. It's his choice to perform songs that are most typical for what he was going for: the guitar that does all the work. pointedly no leadguitar, pointedly no drums. That song is his stripped to the bone what this album is all about. That's why he does it. IMO, ofcourse. I know YOU don't like that, but hey! that's normally a compliment in my book. I would have chosen SUD for the same reasons Lindsey seem to have. But that one is a fraction more difficult vocally. And stringwise too.

[Little Nicki]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Bull**** again, stewie. You're quite good at that. It's his choice to perform songs that are most typical for what he was going for: the guitar that does all the work. pointedly no leadguitar, pointedly no drums. That song is his stripped to the bone what this album is all about. That's why he does it. IMO, ofcourse. I know YOU don't like that, but hey! that's normally a compliment in my book. I would have chosen SUD for the same reasons Lindsey seem to have. But that one is a fraction more difficult vocally. And stringwise too.

You seem to have this need to defend Lindsey in every way, about everything. We should take a poll of who thinks Not Too Late is one of the weaker songs on the album(where's ethan when you need him?). The man can write a less than stellar song, it's ok. And I agree with you, Shut Us Down is a FAR better song in my opinion, and would serve the same musical purpose, just maybe not lyrical.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by Little Nicki

You seem to have this need to defend Lindsey in every way, about everything. We should take a poll of who thinks Not Too Late is one of the weaker songs on the album(where's ethan when you need him?). The man can write a less than stellar song, it's ok. And I agree with you, Shut Us Down is a FAR better song in my opinion, and would serve the same musical purpose, just maybe not lyrical.

I do NOT defend Lindsey in every way. I recently said that I didn't like the CMT-cooperation and I really think it was bad choice, although it had it's moments. And in a reaction on FaceOfGlass in this thread I even used the term "dumb".

I defend Lindsey against flat and popular opinions because I still think his artistic values are sincere. A lot of americans think that that's just an attitude and I don't think so.
I defended SUD from the first second. And there was a LOT of bashing there. It is one of the most daring things he ever recorded and I tend to defend him as long as he fights for his muse.

Not too Late may not be his best song (I love it though), I just UNDERSTAND why he takes that one out as a summary for what he wanted to express on under the skin.

And by the way, you'd never see me rank that album as a collection of songs. I love it because of the entity and the whole approach on that album. My dream would be a live-rendition of the whole album and some dusted-off rockers to end the show.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Bull**** again, stewie. You're quite good at that. It's his choice to perform songs that are most typical for what he was going for: the guitar that does all the work. pointedly no leadguitar, pointedly no drums. That song is his stripped to the bone what this album is all about. That's why he does it.

Some of us don't focus solely on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays -- we also listen to the lyrics. And, quite frankly, I think the lyrics to "Not Too Late" come off like a rich white man with a beautiful wife, three kids and a huge house whining that he's ever so misunderstood.

"Under The Skin" would be an awesome selection for him to perform. The lyrics are poignant and the instrumentation is nothing short of sublime. In my opinion, "NTL" is a far weaker effort and not the best representation of Lindsey or of this album.

And as far as the idea that he wants to "impress more than gather new interest" with these TV appearances... well, let's get real -- the whole reason anyone goes on a late-night talk show is to promote whatever it is they're trying to sell. I doubt Lindsey would waste his time if he didn't hope that his appearances would help sell additional copies. After all, he even did the very thing he turned his nose up at when Warners wanted Fleetwood Mac to do it -- he went on Country Music Television.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Some of us don't focus solely on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays -- we also listen to the lyrics. And, quite frankly, I think the lyrics to "Not Too Late" come off like a rich white man with a beautiful wife, three kids and a huge house whining that he's ever so misunderstood.

Yeah, right. you know me. I only focus on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays. Thanks dude. In the last few years you've got a nice reception of Shackin'up: a guy that only focusses on technique and isn't interested in content. Yes perfect dude.

And for your description of the lyric of NTL: you are the perfect example of an american that only looks at the surface. I'll defend LB to death against guys like you. It's unbelievable that so few people understand what he's saying here. He's not whining, if you don't see that, you don't want to.

[shackin'up]

..add to that that 95 percent of all frickin' reviews opened with a quote from that song. And not to bash the whinyness, but to search for the artist's interior dialogues and reflections. I can't believe that there's a need on this board to explain that lindsey's solo-albums differ bigtime from FM-work, at least the parts that were seen by the public eye, and that the artistic struggle for recognition of his neurotic perfectness- approach is real and not a pose or just spoiled brat behaviour.

With which I have NOT stated that he isn't a spoiled brat. Ofcourse he his.

[danax6]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Some of us don't focus solely on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays -- we also listen to the lyrics. And, quite frankly, I think the lyrics to "Not Too Late" come off like a rich white man with a beautiful wife, three kids and a huge house whining that he's ever so misunderstood.

But one does not really have anything to do with the other. It's his personal life vs. his professional life. I have to agree with Gerald here and say it's not Lindsey whining in Not Too Late, he's trying to explain something. He's trying to explain why he's still doing all this, all the while realizing what a toll it sometimes takes on his family. As for why he performs this song instead of say 'Under the Skin'...he's been promoting it as a stripped down 'I-could-have-played-you-this-album-in-your-living-room' album, and so he has to bring forth the album as such. Under the Skin can't really be performed with just one guitar, it would not have the same sound it has on the album. I think he chose Not Too Late because it reflects the very personal side of the album, which is another thing he's been promoting. Not Too Late is a fairly literal tale, and therefor easier for the audience to grasp, IMO.

He hasn't been playing stripped down one-guitar Fleetwood Mac songs like Big Love and Never Going Back Again during various promotional interviews and performances for nothing. He wants it to be understood that that's what the audience can expect.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by danax6

But one does not really have anything to do with the other. It's his personal life vs. his professional life. I have to agree with Gerald here and say it's not Lindsey whining in Not Too Late, he's trying to explain something. He's trying to explain why he's still doing all this, all the while realizing what a toll it sometimes takes on his family. As for why he performs this song instead of say 'Under the Skin'...he's been promoting it as a stripped down 'I-could-have-played-you-this-album-in-your-living-room' album, and so he has to bring forth the album as such. Under the Skin can't really be performed with just one guitar, it would not have the same sound it has on the album. I think he chose Not Too Late because it reflects the very personal side of the album, which is another thing he's been promoting. Not Too Late is a fairly literal tale, and therefor easier for the audience to grasp, IMO.

He hasn't been playing stripped down one-guitar Fleetwood Mac songs like Big Love and Never Going Back Again during various promotional interviews and performances for nothing. He wants it to be understood that that's what the audience can expect.

I guess one has to be dutch to see the vision.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Yeah, right. you know me. I only focus on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays. Thanks dude. In the last few years you've got a nice reception of Shackin'up: a guy that only focusses on technique and isn't interested in content. Yes perfect dude.

It would seem you have an equally off-kilter perception of me.
Nevertheless, you said he wants to impress, and I said he wasn't going to impress with the lyrics to this song -- so all that's left to dazzle the uninitiated with is how he's playing it.

Originally Posted by shackin'up

And for your description of the lyric of NTL: you are the perfect example of an american that only looks at the surface. I'll defend LB to death against guys like you. It's unbelievable that so few people understand what he's saying here. He's not whining, if you don't see that, you don't want to.

Again with your totally off the wall perception of me and what kind of person I am.
For some reason, everytime someone has a dissenting opinion about this album or some of the songs contained therein, you use this snide "it must be because you're a shallow and boorish American" point of view to negate their opinions.
Despite who's sitting in the White House right now, we're not all idiots with poor taste and bad judgement, who spend our time wondering what that whacky Paris Hilton is going to do next.

I am perfectly capable of grasping what Lindsey was going for with the lyrics to "Not Too Late"... hell, they're so blatant, you'd have to be lobotomized to not "get" them. I simply think it's one of his weakest efforts, makes him sound whiney and is not at all a good representation of this album. And certainly this one little song isn't the be-all and end-all of 'Under The Skin' and the only one that would "impress" people.
When Lindsey made TV appearances to promote 'Out Of The Cradle,' he performed "Countdown," "Street Of Dreams" and "Don't Look Down"... he didn't keep rehashing the same tune. He's turned "Not Too Late" into the lone representation of 'Under The Skin,' and it's a pity he's not letting any of the other ten songs have a chance to speak for themselves.

Originally Posted by shackin'up

..add to that that 95 percent of all frickin' reviews opened with a quote from that song. And not to bash the whinyness, but to search for the artist's interior dialogues and reflections.

In my opinion, so many critics pointed to the lyrics of "Not Too Late" out of sheer laziness. It's the most "hit-you-over-the-head" example of Lindsey's artistic and personal struggles that they didn't have to bother spending time examining the lyrics to any of the remaining tracks to convey to their readers a sense of the man or the artist. Wanna know what Buckingham is all about? Here it is, spelled out for you in a nice, little three minute song.

It's as disappointing as it would have been if "What's The World Coming To" had become the spokesong for Lindsey's 'Gift of Screws'/'Say You Will' work.

[shackin'up]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

It would seem you have an equally off-kilter perception of me.

Right. Now you feel what you started.

1. If you had read all the four and five star reviews you'd know that a lot of them were NOT written from laziness. That song simply sums it all up who and where lindsey is these days. He chose it as an opener for the album and the tour. On both points it's daring and vulnerable. If you don't hear the emotion he adds to the liveversion...well then put on something else and don't bother anymore. A lot of those reviews were wellwritten and going at least one layer deeper than your comments in this thread.

2. I only call someone a shallow american if the arguments they use are shallow and typical american: read:concerning money and success through popularity. Or arrogant statements about knowing better than the artist himself on a moment he's taking risks.

3. Lindsey made the choice for this song as a flagship, but please, he's been on several radioshows playing NGBA, Big Love, Castaway dreams, Down On Radio, BTLH and Show you how. All by himself all just with an acoustic, basicly picking. THAT's what he wants to bring over and the only better song by himself on UTS is Shut Us Down, which I won't fall into rehashing about.

4. you have a right to your own opinion, but your assumption that he's choosing the WRONG impression just hit me. I really can live with good argumented criticism on Lindsey, but I must say, without more intense contributions from Carnevaca, Trackaghost, FaceOfGlass, Stefan, Seteca, MadforMac, Jyqm etcetera this board is suffering. And there are just few people capable of putting me thinking about his music with a more critical ear. Believe me dude, that's the only thing I'm looking for over here.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

Some of us don't focus solely on how quickly he can move his fingers as he plays -- we also listen to the lyrics. And, quite frankly, I think the lyrics to "Not Too Late" come off like a rich white man with a beautiful wife, three kids and a huge house whining that he's ever so misunderstood.

I haven't read the whole of this thread but I think you've clearly missed the point of that song. Not Too Late is about growing up, realising he has different priorities. At first glance it comes across as whiny but if you look at it more closely Linsdey is actually denouncing his past behaviour in a way.

"Reading the paper saw a review
Said I was a visionary, but nobody knew
Now that's been a problem
feeling unseen
Just like I'm living somebody's dream
What am I doing anyway
Telling myself it's not too late"

This is the bitter Lindsey, who for years felt underrated, underappreciated, and even he admits it, ignored while others went on to greater success.

"I'm not a young man but I'm a child in my soul
I feel there's room for a man who is whole
And there's a need for songs that are sung
For a chances not taken for deeds not yet done"

To me this is Lindsey saying there is still time to grab things that are really important to him, his family, his music, it's time to get over his past hang-ups and find fulfilment in these things.

So anyway here we go back to the beginning, that Lindsey feels he hasn't had the credit he deserves...

"So that's been a problem feeling unheard
So called visions always deferred
It must be the reason I developed this need"

And here's the kicker...

"You know you should never believe what you read"

He realises maybe he's being a miserable old sod thinking "Boo hoo hoo, I'm so great and nobody notices me" (courtesy of Jyqm - thank you ) and instead I need to get out there and show how great I am and live up to that visionary tag they've pinned on me, instead of whinging that I'm "unseen".

So there you go. It's actually not whingy at all, it's Lindsey saying I've been an idiot and I'm fed up being sulky, instead I'm going to be happy and try and be as good as these so-called critics say I am. I cringed when I first heard the lyrics, but I've since come to really like them.

[amber]

Originally Posted by shackin'up

Right. Now you feel what you started.

1. If you had read all the four and five star reviews you'd know that a lot of them were NOT written from laziness. That song simply sums it all up who and where lindsey is these days. He chose it as an opener for the album and the tour. On both points it's daring and vulnerable. If you don't hear the emotion he adds to the liveversion...well then put on something else and don't bother anymore. A lot of those reviews were wellwritten and going at least one layer deeper than your comments in this thread.

2. I only call someone a shallow american if the arguments they use are shallow and typical american: read:concerning money and success through popularity. Or arrogant statements about knowing better than the artist himself on a moment he's taking risks.

3. Lindsey made the choice for this song as a flagship, but please, he's been on several radioshows playing NGBA, Big Love, Castaway dreams, Down On Radio, BTLH and Show you how. All by himself all just with an acoustic, basicly picking. THAT's what he wants to bring over and the only better song by himself on UTS is Shut Us Down, which I won't fall into rehashing about.

4. you have a right to your own opinion, but your assumption that he's choosing the WRONG impression just hit me. I really can live with good argumented criticism on Lindsey, but I must say, without more intense contributions from Carnevaca, Trackaghost, FaceOfGlass, Stefan, Seteca, MadforMac, Jyqm etcetera this board is suffering. And there are just few people capable of putting me thinking about his music with a more critical ear. Believe me dude, that's the only thing I'm looking for over here.

^^^^

That is funny. No matter how well I understand Lindsey's vision, and respect it, and understand why he is picking performing NTL, and how much I realize how well Lindsey thinks it represents the concept and etc. of his new album - it will never make me think it is a better song, or that it is the best suited to represent the album, except in Lindsey's eyes. So we both can think of all the reasons in the world to defend his choice, and understand those reasons inside and out, but that still won't change my own personal feelings that it isn't the best choice.
And I'm not talking about because it doesn't sell the album well enough, I'm talking about how it isn't the best song lyrically, musically, vocally, or thematically on the album. You may think the song sums up all and who and where Lindsey is these days, we may all hear how daring and vulnerable the song is, and how much emotion he adds to the live version - I do.
I just think other songs offer the same amount of emotion live, and are just as daring and vulnerable - songs that I like much better. I think the whole album is daring and vulnerable, but that musically and lyrically, NTL falls short of several other songs.

Now, I'm not saying it is wrong for Lindsey to play this so much, because he should play what he wants. I'm just saying I wish he had chose either a mix off the new album, or a different song to play continuously. Because I think many songs are better.
Also, I don't see how you are looking at L with a more "critical ear" or that the people you named necessarily would be, either. It just seems you are saying your opinion, just like everyone else. Just because your opinion differs from many other people's regarding NTL, doesn't mean you are looking with a more critical ear. In fact, perhaps one could argue you are looking with a less critical ear. And if not, your analysis of the strengths of NTL are no different in weight than someone else's analysis of it, or any other song. You just think you are right, like I'm sure everyone else does. A little arrogant of you to think that since others do not feel the same way about the song, that they don't have a "critical musical ear". They just don't have the same one as you. I could describe why I think other songs are superior to NTL in much the same way you described NTL. Doesn't make either thing universally true. Doesn't make either one of us right. And I don't think our opinions are "shallow" necessarily either.

And I could give a rats ass about Lindsey trying to be "commercially viable" or whatever, I just want to hear him do some other songs from his album publicly that I think are superior to NTL. But also, if you think about it, if someone is popular, we'll probably get to hear more work from them. That is not universally true, but it is mostly true. People don't book tours if no one wants to come see them. You don't get to sing on T.V. shows if no one wants to hear you.
Also, if Lindsey mixed up the songs more, the variety would be an even better representation of the awesomeness of his album. Including NTL.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

"Under The Skin" would be an awesome selection for him to perform. The lyrics are poignant and the instrumentation is nothing short of sublime. In my opinion, "NTL" is a far weaker effort and not the best representation of Lindsey or of this album.

And as far as the idea that he wants to "impress more than gather new interest" with these TV appearances... well, let's get real -- the whole reason anyone goes on a late-night talk show is to promote whatever it is they're trying to sell. I doubt Lindsey would waste his time if he didn't hope that his appearances would help sell additional copies. After all, he even did the very thing he turned his nose up at when Warners wanted Fleetwood Mac to do it -- he went on Country Music Television.

Of course everyone is assuming that Lindsey thought to himself, "which is the most uncommerical song on the album I can play tonight".

It's quite possible that Lindsey instead thought, you know most people are mentioning this song in reviews, I feel really proud of it and the song represents what I feel the album is. I can't imagine Lindsey checks the messageboards and so wouldn't know that some Ledgies are not so thrilled with the song, so his impression of what songs work on the album will come soley through reviews and the reactions of fans at concerts - and I'm pretty sure no one responded to that song badly live, although of course I wasn't there so I can't say for sure.

I myself like the song, so maybe Lindsey and the people round him do too. Maybe Lindsey said: "what if I play Not Too Soon on TV tonight?", and his friends and family, even the record company, responded "Great idea, we love that song too!" Just because some people here on this board think it's such a terrible represention of him, doesn't mean everyone does. Lindsey's motives may be a lot purer than everyone thinks and unless he comes out and says it, none of us know for sure.

And maybe you and others would be turned off by it, but if I didn't know Lindsey and heard him playing this song on TV, my ears would have pricked up for sure. I think there's a reason why a lot of the alternative press have picked up on this album, and while the pop fans may be bummed out by it, there are other kinds of music fans who are finding a new appreciation of Lindsey through songs like Not Too Late. So I definitely don't see why that song is a bad choice at all.