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#31
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Here is more on Clinton - I bolded the parts where he insists on Iraq haing unaccounted for WMD. So either Clinton too was lying, or, if Clinton was correct, then W had a peg to hang his hat on. Seeing it any other way is avoiding the facts and the facts are all that interest me. Bill Clinton on Bush uranium line: 'Everybody makes mistakes' Former president accepts explanation on State of the Union WASHINGTON (CNN) --The White House, attacked by critics for a now-retracted line about Iraq seeking uranium from Africa in President Bush's State of the Union address, has gotten some surprising support from former President Clinton. "I thought the White House did the right thing in just saying 'we probably shouldn't have said that,' " Clinton told CNN's Larry King in a phone interview Tuesday evening. "You know, everybody makes mistakes when they are president," Clinton said. "I mean, you can't make as many calls as you have to make without messing up once in awhile. The thing we ought to be focused on is what is the right thing to do now. That's what I think." Clinton had called King to honor his guest, former Republican Sen. Bob Dole, on Dole's 80th birthday. Clinton's comments took other Democrats by surprise, many of whom have questioned whether the Bush administration misled the public about the threat from Saddam Hussein. The uranium claim was made at a time Bush was trying to rally world support for military action against Iraq and was used to suggest that Saddam was acting on his nuclear ambitions. Wednesday, some members of the Clinton administration indicated they didn't agree with their former boss's take on the controversy. "In some critical respects, intelligence was overstated, and it's important for the administration to resolve these questions," said Sandy Berger, the national security adviser under Clinton. He said Bush needs to have a news conference to fully explain how the claim about uranium made its way into the nationally televised address, despite CIA concerns about the quality of the intelligence. Former Clinton White House Chief of Staff John Podesta agreed. Unless Bush appears before the America people, the "drip, drip, drip is just going to continue." But former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright didn't sound so sure. "The most important thing is to move forward," she said. "I agree with President Clinton on that." The three came to the Capitol Wednesday to present a foreign policy paper at the request of Senate Democrats. Clinton also said Tuesday night that at the end of his term, there was "a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for " in Iraq. "So I thought it was prudent for the president to go to the U.N. and for the U.N. to say, 'You got to let these inspectors in, and this time if you don't cooperate the penalty could be regime change, not just continued sanctions.'" Clinton told King: "People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons." Earlier Tuesday, Bush's No. 2 national security aide took partial responsibility for allowing the inclusion of the dubious claim in the State of the Union address. The admission by Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley marked the first time the White House had taken any blame in the matter. An administration official told CNN that Hadley offered his resignation, but Bush didn't accept it. http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...ton.iraq.sotu/ Quote:
The mainstream media reported it as well. People just did not really care because Sh had been thumbing his nose at the US for a decade and people were tired of it. Moreover, after 9/11, they were scared that if he had the WMD, he would be emboldened to use them. I have to say that is a compelling argument considering the world (except Mary) thought he had them. |
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#32
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the sad fact of the matter is, you were GUNG HO about invading Iraq and not even CLINTON did that! You were suckered in by the spin and propaganda and you got caught with your pants DOWN. Unlike me, who distrusted anything that came out of Monkey Boy's mouth. so, no matter how you try to justify it, it was a load of BULL and Monkey Boy had an agenda from the very beginning as I said. Maybe you need to go back and re-read those earlier posts!! Last edited by irishgrl; 09-12-2006 at 08:13 AM.. |
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#33
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What I do not agree with was the halting of the last set of inspections and the going to war essentially alone. While I could even stomach that because SH has a long history of stringing the world along, I find even more distasteful the administrations lack of a plan to win the peace there. If I ever said anything different, let's see it. Sadly, you want to place it all on W's shoulders because you blindly hate him to the point of being unable to see any facts, which again are all that interest me. So, please argue them only from now on. Also, still no comment on the thousands of dead children under Clinton's Oil For Food. Hmmmmmmm |
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#34
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Illegal Iraq Invasion
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#35
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As for the UN votes (please note all that pre-W non-compliance talk - guess they should have called you)
________________________________________________ Text of U.N. resolution on Iraq The Security Council, Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661 (1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March 1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15 August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and 1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President, Recalling also its resolution 1382 (2001) of 29 November 2001 and its intention to implement it fully, Recognizing the threat Iraq's noncompliance with Council resolutions and proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security, Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to Resolution 660 (1990) and to restore international peace and security in the area, Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area, Deploring the fact that Iraq has not provided an accurate, full, final, and complete disclosure, as required by resolution 687 (1991), of all aspects of its programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles with a range greater than one hundred and fifty kilometres, and of all holdings of such weapons, their components and production facilities and locations, as well as all other nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to nuclear-weapons-usable material, Deploring further that Iraq repeatedly obstructed immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to sites designated by the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), failed to cooperate fully and unconditionally with UNSCOM and IAEA weapons inspectors, as required by resolution 687 (1991), and ultimately ceased all cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA in 1998, Deploring the absence, since December 1998, in Iraq of international monitoring, inspection, and verification, as required by relevant resolutions, of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, in spite of the Council's repeated demands that Iraq provide immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC), established in resolution 1284 (1999) as the successor organization to UNSCOM, and the IAEA, and regretting the consequent prolonging of the crisis in the region and the suffering of the Iraqi people, Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance in Iraq, and pursuant to resolutions 686 (1991), 687 (1991), and 1284 (1999) to return or cooperate in accounting for Kuwaiti and third country nationals wrongfully detained by Iraq, or to return Kuwaiti property wrongfully seized by Iraq, Recalling that in its resolution 687 (1991) the Council declared that a ceasefire would be based on acceptance by Iraq of the provisions of that resolution, including the obligations on Iraq contained therein, Determined to ensure full and immediate compliance by Iraq without conditions or restrictions with its obligations under resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions and recalling that the resolutions of the Council constitute the governing standard of Iraqi compliance, Recalling that the effective operation of UNMOVIC, as the successor organization to the Special Commission, and the IAEA is essential for the implementation of resolution 687 (1991) and other relevant resolutions, Noting the letter dated 16 September 2002 from the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Iraq addressed to the Secretary General is a necessary first step toward rectifying Iraq's continued failure to comply with relevant Council resolutions, Noting further the letter dated 8 October 2002 from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq laying out the practical arrangements, as a follow-up to their meeting in Vienna, that are prerequisites for the resumption of inspections in Iraq by UNMOVIC and the IAEA, and expressing the gravest concern at the continued failure by the Government of Iraq to provide confirmation of the arrangements as laid out in that letter, Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq, Kuwait, and the neighbouring States, Commending the Secretary General and members of the League of Arab States and its Secretary General for their efforts in this regard, Determined to secure full compliance with its decisions, Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations, 1. Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions, including resolution 687 (1991), in particular through Iraq's failure to cooperate with United Nations inspectors and the IAEA, and to complete the actions required under paragraphs 8 to 13 of resolution 687 (1991); 2. Decides, while acknowledging paragraph 1 above, to afford Iraq, by this resolution, a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations under relevant resolutions of the Council; and accordingly decides to set up an enhanced inspection regime with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the disarmament process established by resolution 687 (1991) and subsequent resolutions of the Council; 3. Decides that, in order to begin to comply with its disarmament obligations, in addition to submitting the required biannual declarations, the Government of Iraq shall provide to UNMOVIC, the IAEA, and the Council, not later than 30 days from the date of this resolution, a currently accurate, full, and complete declaration of all aspects of its programmes to develop chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, and other delivery systems such as unmanned aerial vehicles and dispersal systems designed for use on aircraft, including any holdings and precise locations of such weapons, components, sub-components, stocks of agents, and related material and equipment, the locations and work of its research, development and production facilities, as well as all other chemical, biological, and nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not related to weapon production or material; 4. Decides that false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations and will be reported to the Council for assessment in accordance with paragraphs 11 and or 12 below; 5. Decides that Iraq shall provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to any and all, including underground, areas, facilities, buildings, equipment, records, and means of transport which they wish to inspect, as well as immediate, unimpeded, unrestricted, and private access to all officials and other persons whom UNMOVIC or the IAEA wish to interview in the mode or location of UNMOVIC's or the IAEA's choice pursuant to any aspect of their mandates; further decides that UNMOVIC and the IAEA may at their discretion conduct interviews inside or outside of Iraq, may facilitate the travel of those interviewed and family members outside of Iraq, and that, at the sole discretion of UNMOVIC and the IAEA, such interviews may occur without the presence of observers from the Iraqi government; and instructs UNMOVIC and requests the IAEA to resume inspections no later than 45 days following adoption of this resolution and to update the Council 60 days thereafter; 6. Endorses the 8 October 2002 letter from the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director General of the IAEA to General Al-Saadi of the Government of Iraq, which is annexed hereto, and decides that the contents of the letter shall be binding upon Iraq; 7. Decides further that, in view of the prolonged interruption by Iraq of the presence of UNMOVIC and the IAEA and in order for them to accomplish the tasks set forth in this resolution and all previous relevant resolutions and notwithstanding prior understandings, the Council hereby establishes the following revised or additional authorities, which shall be binding upon Iraq , to facilitate their work in Iraq: -- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall determine the composition of their inspection teams and ensure that these teams are composed of the most qualified and experienced experts available; -- All UNMOVIC and IAEA personnel shall enjoy the privileges and immunities, corresponding to those of experts on mission, provided in the Convention on Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations and the Agreement on the Privileges and Immunities of the IAEA ; -- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have unrestricted rights of entry into and out of Iraq, the right to free, unrestricted, and immediate movement to and from inspection sites, and the right to inspect any sites and buildings, including immediate, unimpeded, unconditional, and unrestricted access to Presidential Sites equal to that at other sites, notwithstanding the provisions of resolution 1154 (1998); -- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to be provided by Iraq the names of all personnel currently and formerly associated with Iraq's chemical, biological, nuclear, and ballistic missile programmes and the associated research, development, and production facilities; -- Security of UNMOVIC and IAEA facilities shall be ensured by sufficient UN security guards; -- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to declare, for the purposes of freezing a site to be inspected, exclusion zones, including surrounding areas and transit corridors, in which Iraq will suspend ground and aerial movement so that nothing is changed in or taken out of a site being inspected; -- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the free and unrestricted use and landing of fixed- and rotary-winged aircraft, including manned and unmanned reconnaissance vehicles; -- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right at their sole discretion verifiably to remove, destroy, or render harmless all prohibited weapons, subsystems, components, records, materials, and other related items, and the right to impound or close any facilities or equipment for the production thereof; and -- UNMOVIC and the IAEA shall have the right to free import and use of equipment or materials for inspections and to seize and export any equipment, materials, or documents taken during inspections, without search of UNMOVIC or IAEA personnel or official or personal baggage; 8. Decides further that Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations or the IAEA or of any Member State taking action to uphold any Council resolution; 9. Requests the Secretary General immediately to notify Iraq of this resolution, which is binding on Iraq; demands that Iraq confirm within seven days of that notification its intention to comply fully with this resolution; and demands further that Iraq cooperate immediately, unconditionally, and actively with UNMOVIC and the IAEA; 10. Requests all Member States to give full support to UNMOVIC and the IAEA in the discharge of their mandates, including by providing any information related to prohibited programmes or other aspects of their mandates, including on Iraqi attempts since 1998 to acquire prohibited items, and by recommending sites to be inspected, persons to be interviewed, conditions of such interviews, and data to be collected, the results of which shall be reported to the Council by UNMOVIC and the IAEA; 11. Directs the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director General of the IAEA to report immediately to the Council any interference by Iraq with inspection activities, as well as any failure by Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations, including its obligations regarding inspections under this resolution; 12. Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 11 above, in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security; 13. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations; 14. Decides to remain seized of the matter. Find this article at: http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/11/08/resolution.text ______________________________________________________________ Hmmm - a unanimous vote U.N. passes Iraq resolution on weapons inspections Bush: 'All nations must continue to pressure Saddam' UNITED NATIONS (CNN) --The United Nations Security Council on Friday approved a resolution that demands unfettered access for U.N. inspectors to search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The vote is in line with U.S. efforts to win international backing for stripping Saddam Hussein of such weapons. The resolution passed unanimously, after U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan joined the assembled delegates in the Security Council chamber. "How this crisis is resolved will affect greatly the course of peace and security in the region and the world," Annan said after the vote. "I commend the council for acting today with purpose and resolve." Iraq reportedly was reviewing the document. "Iraq will certainly study the resolution and decide whether we can accept it or not," Iraqi Ambassador to the U.N. Mohammed Al-Douri told The Associated Press. (More Iraqi reaction) The Bush administration reiterated its position that although it would consult with the Security Council, it is not required to get U.N. approval for U.S.-led military action if Iraq fails to comply. U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. John Negroponte said Iraq will be disarmed "one way or another." "If the Security Council fails to act decisively in the event of further Iraqi violations this resolution does not constrain any member state from acting to defend itself against the threat posed by Iraq or to enforce relevant United Nations resolutions and protect world peace and security," Negroponte said. Immediately following the vote, President Bush read a statement in the White House Rose Garden saying Iraq would face "the severest consequences" if it fails to comply with the resolution. "If we're to avert war, all nations must continue to pressure Saddam Hussein to accept this resolution and to comply with his obligations." (Bush statement) U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the international community must keep pressure on Iraq, or Baghdad will fall back to its old ways. "The minute that Saddam Hussein and his small ruling clique sense that they're out of danger, I suspect that they'll have no further incentive to cooperation, and any U.N. inspection and disarmament efforts could then fail," Rumsfeld said. Rumsfeld also said that while the world waits for Baghdad to completely disarm, the United States will continue to work with the Iraqi opposition to prepare for the possibility of a future without Saddam. "We will also continue developing humanitarian relief and reconstruction plans for a post-Saddam Hussein Iraq," the defense secretary said. British Prime Minister Tony Blair, speaking from his London residence at 10 Downing Street, said that the world community had chosen "disarmament through the U.N., with force as a last resort." (More on international reactions) Iraq is accused of possessing weapons of mass destruction -- nuclear, biological, chemical -- in violation of the cease-fire treaty it signed when Baghdad lost the 1991 Persian Gulf War. Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz has repeatedly denied possessing such weapons. Chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix wasted no time Friday in announcing his intention to begin work in Iraq. "We are planning to go to Baghdad on Monday the 18th of this month, so it will be within seven to 10 days that we have planned," he told reporters. Meanwhile in Baghdad, there are indications that Iraq might accept the resolution, finalized on Thursday. The final text was approved with two modifications. It now includes one section in which the word "or" is replaced with "and." Also, the phrase "restore international peace and security" is changed to "secure international peace and security." (Text of resolution) The original language concerned France, Russia and China, whose representatives said such wording might be used by the U.S. as a "hidden trigger" for an attack against Iraq. Syria had wanted to have language included in the resolution indicating that if Baghdad complied with the terms of the resolution, sanctions against Iraq would be lifted. Syria also had wanted language included that would declare the entire Middle East a "nuclear-free and weapons of mass destruction-free zone." On Thursday, Bush spoke by telephone with Russian President Vladimir Putin, and the White House said "both agreed on the need to reach a strong resolution" dealing with Iraq. A Russian official said Moscow still had "some concerns" about the resolution but he believed it had changed for the better compared to its original format. Bush also called French President Jacques Chirac. Bush would not characterize the nature of the talks. View from Iraq In Iraq, an article Thursday in al-Thawra ("Revolution"), the newspaper of the ruling Baath party, said: "It is not in Iraq's interest to ignore or contravene Security Council resolutions, as others do." In exchange, it said, the Security Council should recognize Iraq's rights. Observers say the comments in al-Thawra indicate that despite its objections, the Iraqi government recognizes the resolution as its last opportunity to avert war and will likely accept it. In the past, Iraq has said no new Security Council resolution was needed. Nevertheless, there was widespread belief among Iraqi leaders and people on the street that war is inevitable -- that the U.S. goal is not to rid Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, but to topple its leader and seize its oil. CNN Baghdad Bureau Chief Jane Arraf contributed to this report. Find this article at: http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/11/0...ion/index.html __________________________________________________________ So, what was your point again? |
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#36
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I repeat, you got caught with your pants down. ![]() |
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#37
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Out of curiousity - do you not see that SH is mostly to blame for this because of his repeated non-compliance. I get that at the very end, he may have complied, but it likely was a day late and a dollar short considering 9/11.
I mean if you had a neighbor who repeatedly told you he would comply with some zoning ordinance and for a decade lead you on, would would continue to believe him? I think not. |
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#38
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US and UK withdrew from the Security council and Bush initiated a UNILATERAL strike. you should have read my post prior to yours. tsk. Last edited by irishgrl; 09-12-2006 at 08:32 AM.. |
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#39
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![]() Also, please argue facts. |
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#40
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Again, the UN unamimously passed the resolutions that called out SH for failing to comply with the inspections and all thought SH had WMD unaccounted for. If I said anything different let's see it.
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#41
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#42
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What you said was you thought the invasion was justified based on the mythical WMD. What I said was that I didnt believe the spin and that I believed there were NO WMD. I was right, even before Hans Blix announced it. If SH would have had WMD, I believe he would have used them. I believe his reluctance in allowing inspections revolved around his distaste for being dictated to by the world community, NOT because he had anything to hide. |
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#43
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but thats not the same thing as voting unimously to INVADE which is what you were implying above!!! quit prevaricating Jason, you CANT drum up any world support for invasion no matter how hard you try. The WORLD was NOT on board for invasion!!
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#44
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Again, if SH had complied for the prior decade, none of this would have happened. Yet, you assign no fault to him. Only W and never Clinton. |
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#45
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On edit - by using the word "implying" - that is the fatal mistake of your "logic" -- I am not advocating the invasion. I am arguing that the US and the world were correct to hold SH's feet to the fire regarding the WMD, which the world unanimously thought he had and which SH was not really willing to lift a finger to prove otherwise. That gave Clinton and W the basis to attack Iraq. Thems the facts, whether you like them or not. Last edited by strandinthewind; 09-12-2006 at 08:48 AM.. |
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