The Ledge Usage Guide

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

One mistake I often make is putting a plural verb after "neither".

I do this sometimes, too. Same with "none."

Incorrect: Thankfully, none of the chiffonheads were wearing the same shawl.

Correct: None of the Buckingholics was convinced that the man would actually release an album this year.

[amber]

Masterful: Revealing mastery or skill; expert: a masterful technique; masterful moviemaking.
straight outta the dic, David.

[David]

Originally Posted by amber

Masterful: Revealing mastery or skill; expert: a masterful technique; masterful moviemaking.
straight outta the dic, David.

See my comments a few weeks ago about prescriptive vs. descriptive dictionaries. If you're looking for judicial usage guidance--the dos & don'ts--prescriptive dictionaries & usage guides will be far more helpful to you. Nonprescriptive (or descriptive) dictionaries generally only tell you how a word or phrase is used among the native-speaking population, not necessarily how it should be used in a standardized context (e.g., Received Standard English & Standard Written English) or how it is perceived among writers & editors in terms of standardization or correctness.

For more info on "masterful" vs. "masterly," see the following:

1. Fowler's "Modern English Usage" (2nd)
2. Garner's "Dictionary of American Usage & Style"
3. Follett's "Modern American Usage"
4. Partridge's "Usage & Abusage"

The prescriptive-descriptive battle came to a head among dictionaries in 1961 with the publication of Webster's Third New International. It was the publication of the Third that precipitated the compiling & publishing of the American Heritage Dictionary in 1969, which sought to redress the perceived lexicographical wrongs of the former. See Dwight Macdonald's magisterial (& masterly) essay "The String Untuned."

P.S. No dictionary is completely descriptive or prescriptive. I'm referring to general editorial & lexicographic principles that underlie all dictionaries. Also, it's always a good idea to read the front matter in any dictionary you use so that you know just what sort of guidance on correct & incorrect usages you're going to find. Different dictionaries have widely different agendas. For an interesting demonstration, pick a usage shibboleth (e.g., "disinterested," "masterful," "meticulous," "decimate," "restauranteur" [sic], etc.) & compare how various dictionaries label it & define it.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by Rickypt

One grammatical point I always found interesting, and is almost always ignored, is that a colon is never to be used after "is" or "are".

So, it is incorrect to write:

My favorite singers are:

Stevie Nicks
Maria McKee
Dolly Parton

Ok, on this one I want actual proof because I think YOU'RE incorrect about that.


Oh, another one:

When a word ends in the letter "s" and you want to make it a possessive, you DON'T add an apostrophe "s", the apostrophe alone will suffice.

INCORRECT: "I went to my parents's house."
CORRECT: "I went to my parents' house."

[amber]

^^^

Interesting. I haven't read about these distinctions before. For obvious reasons. My dictionary had the same definitions you used for masterful listed first, I must say.
Luckily, since I'm a native speaker in common usage, I can still use "masterful" in the way that I enjoy. Perhaps I'll keep that particular usage of it out of my academic writings.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Ok, on this one I want actual proof because I think YOU'RE incorrect about that.

About the colon? He's right. Why would you need a colon after the verb "to be?" It's completely unnecessary. "My favorite singers are Stevie Nicks, Maria McKee and Dolly Parton." Bam. If you want to make it a list, the verb becomes unnecessary.

My favorite singers:
Stevie Nicks
Maria McKee
Dolly Parton

Oh, another one:

When a word ends in the letter "s" and you want to make it a possessive, you DON'T add an apostrophe "s", the apostrophe alone will suffice.

INCORRECT: "I went to my parents's house."
CORRECT: "I went to my parents' house."

In a similar vein: If a person's surname ends in "s" and you are referring to multiple members of that person's family, you add an "es." Hence, "keeping up with the Joneses." Or, "We're having lunch with the Robertses tomorrow." Or, "I hate those Flanderses."

[David]

Folks, remember that correct vs. incorrect is often not absolute. For a variety of reasons (conflicting standards of correctness, geographical differences, the passage of time, changing standards of bias, dialectical drift, TV & newspaper influences, differences among publishing house styles), there are dozens upon dozens of disputed usage rules--such as the one about ending a sentence with a preposition (see the very sensible entry in Fowler "preposition at end" for opinions that may surprise you).

Put all advice into context, & seek out further commentary!

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

About the colon? He's right. Why would you need a colon after the verb "to be?" It's completely unnecessary. "My favorite singers are Stevie Nicks, Maria McKee and Dolly Parton." Bam. If you want to make it a list, the verb becomes unnecessary.

My favorite singers:
Stevie Nicks
Maria McKee
Dolly Parton

I'm still not convinced.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally Posted by David

Folks, remember that correct vs. incorrect is often not absolute. For a variety of reasons, there are dozens upon dozens of disputed usage rules--such as the one about ending a sentence with a preposition.

One of my favorite jokes:

A Southern woman attends a party at the home of a friend. She's introduced to a Northern couple and asks, "where y'all from?" The Northern woman responds in a haughty tone, "We're from a place where we don't end our sentences with a preposition." The Southern woman replies, "Well, let me rephrase that -- where y'all from, bitch?"

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by chiliD

I'm still not convinced.

If you're using a colon in a sentence to denote a list, the clause which precedes the colon must be independent. "My favorite singers are" does not fit the bill.

http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/colons.asp (Of course, there are always variations in usage, as David mentioned; Rule #2 on this site notes that some publications do allow use of a colon after a verb.)

[irishgrl]

"between He and I" is wrong?

is there a rule? and please state it simply. Grammar always confuses me.

In fact, I have my trusty copy of A Writer's Reference (Diana Hacker) here to help me so, please, explain.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

I do this sometimes, too. Same with "none."

Incorrect: Thankfully, none of the chiffonheads were wearing the same shawl.

Correct: None of the Buckingholics was convinced that the man would actually release an album this year.

wait: the first sentence has "none....were" and you say that's incorrect, but
"none......was" is ok?

why? all these rules!!!! ACK!!!!!

Ive been pretty lucky, Im an intuitive writer, I dont worry about the rules, yet I seem to get it right most of the time. (no glaring errors anyway!)

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

"between He and I" is wrong?

is there a rule? and please state it simply. Grammar always confuses me.

Accusitive pronouns always follow prepositions, simple as that.

Look at me. I know all about him. I can see right through him. He's got "sleazebag" written all over him. I used to look up to him, but I am so over him now. Anyway, this isn't about him. This is between me and her. I haven't heard from her in a week. What's gotten into her? Whatever it is, it's beyond me. But it's up to her to get the money back from him.

[David]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

"between He and I" is wrong?

Yes

is there a rule? and please state it simply. Grammar always confuses me.

I'm the world's worst at trying to explain, so if I confuse even further than I have already, kick me in the pants, irishgrl. But make it feel good.

Any pronoun used as the object of a preposition should be in the accusative case. "Between" is a preposition, so the pronouns in the phrase need to be accusative.

Let me know whether that makes sense.

I'll review the terminology:

Nominative Pronouns
I .... you .... he .... she .... it .... we .... they

Accusative Pronouns
me .... you .... him .... her .... it .... us .... them

When you use any of these pronouns in a prepositional phrase, use the accusative.

Think of it this way: You wouldn't say "between we," would you? (I hope not.) Everyone knows to say "between us." But when another pronoun is added, people seem to get confused. Once again: use the ACCUSATIVE PRONOUNS with a preposition-----"between him & her," "among us," "with her & me," "under him," "atop it," "over you," etc.

P.S. "Nominative" is just the fancy Latinate word for "subjective" & "accusative" is the fancy Latinate word for "objective."

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

wait: the first sentence has "none....were" and you say that's incorrect, but
"none......was" is ok?

why? all these rules!!!!

"None" is considered a singular pronoun. Think of it as "not one."