Is it just me?

[chiliD]

I would...if the stipulation was that she couldn't sing any song that she's already sung in the past...all new material or new covers she's not sung in public. Now THAT would make it a "special" show.

But, kudos to those who apparently have "made it happen".

[seeker007nmss]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Nah - as much as I love Stevie I'd never pay that much money to go to something like that. There are several reasons. It seems that (and I'm not talking about the majority of the people here ) that a lot of the crazies come out....

And there are a lot of crazies...in fact my first thought upon seeing the private party thing was, "oh that poor woman...does she know what she's getting herself into?"

And I wouldn't want to meet Stevie for a split second while there are bunches of other crazed fans around.

Plus I have this ideal of who/what Stevie is in my head. It's almost guaranteed not to be accurate as it's put together on what she portrays in public -and well, I don't want that image/ideal messed with.

AND with my luck I'd catch her on the ****tiest day of her life and she'd be a complete bear and I'd be crushed. I've already been front-row-hand-shake-snubbed by Stevie twice...I don't need to be snubbed after paying upwards of 300 bucks

I agree, and with the seating arrangements I get the image of a certain WHO concert from a few years back.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by amber

I see your points. I think I have a different take on what you call commodification. I think of it in a less negative connotation in regards to Stevie. I think of it more literally - her voice is a commodity, meaning it is how she makes her money, and the same for all artists.

I agree completely, obviously the work that any performer creates, along with their talents in performing it, is a commodity that they hope to make money from. But come on. What's being commodified here is not Stevie's voice. The idea for this kind of party does not spring from a desire simply to hear Stevie's voice or songs.

How many people responded immediately to the suggestion of this party with, "Will there be a meet & greet?!?!?!"

I see your point about how artists can choose who to work for and that some artists choose who they play for in ways that meet your particular standards, perhaps ways that you perceive to have more integrity. I get that. I don't like to see people I like playing fairs, and like that. But I rarely think the worse of the artist to the degree that you seem to.

To be clear, I don't think worse of artists who do this kind of thing. I just think better of those who choose not to. That may seem like semantics, but it's not like I think Stevie is some horrible person for playing corporate gigs. She can do what she wants, of course. But what she does does say something about the way she views her art and herself as an artist, and I simply have more respect for people who take a different path. But having more respect for those people doesn't mean I have less respect for Stevie. Does that make sense?

I try to find out the circumstances of why they are doing that, and I usually see the point - they need the money.

I agree, and I always understand that... but do you really think Stevie "needs the money?" From all accounts, she lives pretty extravagantly.

(who wouldn't want to play in front of a bunch of people who are very passionate about their work? In fact, it is everything a performer does want. Am I wrong? )

I don't know, man, have you seen some of these Stevie fans?

My biggest boo hoo hoo is would that she would grab hold of her opportunity for creative freedom. If she ever had the biggest, fattest, juiciest, hanging change up pitch right up the middle to hit out of the fricking park, this is it.

My biggest boo hoo hoo, not to beat this dead horse again, is that she already has that opportunity for creative freedom. She's a popular rock star with millions of dollars and a big loyal fan base who will follow her to the ends of the earth no matter what. And yet, as I said before, she's still trying to sell herself. Because she thinks that she needs to sell out arenas, and she thinks that the only way she can do that is by playing the same hits over and over again, because otherwise that guy in the fifteenth row with the pretzel in his hand and the beer belly straining against his Pat Benatar T-shirt who only knows the words "Rhiannon" and "ooh baby ooh said ooh" might not show up next time.

I know I always use Bruce Springsteen as an example against Stevie/Fleetwood Mac, but, well: Look at Springsteen this year. He's on the road with friggin' jug band, touring behind an album of old folk and gospel songs. Why? Because he can! Because he feels like it! Why not! He can do whatever he wants, he's still got enough loyal fans who will hop along for the ride, and he's still got millions of dollars. And so does Stevie. If Springsteen can fill sheds doing grade school sing-a-longs of "Old Dan Tucker" and "Jacob's Ladder," I'm pretty Stevie could pack 'em playing "Bella Donna" or "Storms" or whatever else.

Personally, I think if Stevie uses the opportunity of this fan party to play a bunch of great songs that she'll never do again at a "real" concert, I'll be pretty turned off, maybe even disgusted. To me, that says: "Sorry, dedicated fans who have been supporting my career for decades. I know that I tour all the time at kinda-sorta reasonable prices, and I know that you go to all of those shows hoping I'll throw out some surprises for you, but tough ****. You wanna hear the good stuff, you gotta pony up the big bucks, and we'll go into this little back room where the rest of the world won't hear, and it'll be just for you, extra special. $350 extra special." And I know, most of you don't care, Stevie's demographic is one that isn't really turned off by the subtext of such things, you've got the money, if she won't deliver the goods at a normal concert, why not just buy her for an evening and pull the strings yourselves with your wallets. And that's fine, really, if this event comes off, and Stevie comes and plays a bunch of obscure chestnuts, I sincerely hope you all have a really wonderful time and really enjoy yourselves. But I think that kinda sucks. I think that kinda sucks a lot.

[GODDESS6]

don't think they'll (7 wonders) pull it off, & i wouldn't go~ 350.00 for them to determine where i sit...i don't think so, this girl wrks hard for her money & tho i am not above spending, matter of fact i love spending it... hell you can't take it w/ ya~ but because of where this all derived from ( & i don't mean the ledge, i LUV you guys), count me out~

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by amber

Also, doesn't the venue in the "regular" gig scenario still have to want the band to play?

Yes. That's what the talent buyers are for.

[amber]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

I agree completely, obviously the work that any performer creates, along with their talents in performing it, is a commodity that they hope to make money from. But come on. What's being commodified here is not Stevie's voice. The idea for this kind of party does not spring from a desire simply to hear Stevie's voice or songs.

How many people responded immediately to the suggestion of this party with, "Will there be a meet & greet?!?!?!"



To be clear, I don't think worse of artists who do this kind of thing. I just think better of those who choose not to. That may seem like semantics, but it's not like I think Stevie is some horrible person for playing corporate gigs. She can do what she wants, of course. But what she does does say something about the way she views her art and herself as an artist, and I simply have more respect for people who take a different path. But having more respect for those people doesn't mean I have less respect for Stevie. Does that make sense?



I agree, and I always understand that... but do you really think Stevie "needs the money?" From all accounts, she lives pretty extravagantly.



I don't know, man, have you seen some of these Stevie fans?



My biggest boo hoo hoo, not to beat this dead horse again, is that she already has that opportunity for creative freedom. She's a popular rock star with millions of dollars and a big loyal fan base who will follow her to the ends of the earth no matter what. And yet, as I said before, she's still trying to sell herself. Because she thinks that she needs to sell out arenas, and she thinks that the only way she can do that is by playing the same hits over and over again, because otherwise that guy in the fifteenth row with the pretzel in his hand and the beer belly straining against his Pat Benatar T-shirt who only knows the words "Rhiannon" and "ooh baby ooh said ooh" might not show up next time.

I know I always use Bruce Springsteen as an example against Stevie/Fleetwood Mac, but, well: Look at Springsteen this year. He's on the road with friggin' jug band, touring behind an album of old folk and gospel songs. Why? Because he can! Because he feels like it! Why not! He can do whatever he wants, he's still got enough loyal fans who will hop along for the ride, and he's still got millions of dollars. And so does Stevie. If Springsteen can fill sheds doing grade school sing-a-longs of "Old Dan Tucker" and "Jacob's Ladder," I'm pretty Stevie could pack 'em playing "Bella Donna" or "Storms" or whatever else.

Personally, I think if Stevie uses the opportunity of this fan party to play a bunch of great songs that she'll never do again at a "real" concert, I'll be pretty turned off, maybe even disgusted. To me, that says: "Sorry, dedicated fans who have been supporting my career for decades. I know that I tour all the time at kinda-sorta reasonable prices, and I know that you go to all of those shows hoping I'll throw out some surprises for you, but tough ****. You wanna hear the good stuff, you gotta pony up the big bucks, and we'll go into this little back room where the rest of the world won't hear, and it'll be just for you, extra special. $350 extra special." And I know, most of you don't care, Stevie's demographic is one that isn't really turned off by the subtext of such things, you've got the money, if she won't deliver the goods at a normal concert, why not just buy her for an evening and pull the strings yourselves with your wallets. And that's fine, really, if this event comes off, and Stevie comes and plays a bunch of obscure chestnuts, I sincerely hope you all have a really wonderful time and really enjoy yourselves. But I think that kinda sucks. I think that kinda sucks a lot.

well, what can I say? Those are good points. I mean, I don't know Stevie's mindset for what she does.
As far as the "meet and greet" thing - I guess people did say that, but she does that at the AHI thing. Perhaps some people do think of her that way, and so I would see your point with that. Although I think they love her the same just for her music and performances, I guess it's just that natural thing of wanting to meet someone who means so much to you. Would I like a meet and greet with Stevie? Sure, but I don't really think of it because it seems impossible. I love Stevie's voice, I love to hear her sing. I've also had a lot of fun meeting other fans.
I couldn't say whether an idea for a party springs only from the desire to hear Stevie sing or not - Brian went forward with it knowing there would be no meet and greet. People bought tickets knowing there would be no meet and greet. I'm a little leery of thinking I totally know other people's motivations.
I'm glad you don't respect Stevie less, but sometimes it really sounds like you do, honestly. But if you say you don't, I guess I have to take your word.

Yes, I have seen some of the fans. Wherever I've been, most actually seem pretty normal. And then there are a few "others".

Also, Stevie does live extravagently, and perhaps supports a few more people? That's why I said "seems" to be wealthy. I hope she's got a buttload of money, but sometimes people who spend so extravagently have to keep it coming in. So although we think Stevie has oodles of cash to spare, that may not actually be the case. I'm just saying it's a possibility. Remember how Catherine Denueve is all bankrupt and has to do commercials and stuff?

[David]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

I know I always use Bruce Springsteen as an example against Stevie/Fleetwood Mac, but, well: Look at Springsteen this year. He's on the road with friggin' jug band, touring behind an album of old folk and gospel songs. Why? Because he can! Because he feels like it! Why not! He can do whatever he wants, he's still got enough loyal fans who will hop along for the ride, and he's still got millions of dollars. And so does Stevie. If Springsteen can fill sheds doing grade school sing-a-longs of "Old Dan Tucker" and "Jacob's Ladder," I'm pretty Stevie could pack 'em playing "Bella Donna" or "Storms" or whatever else.

really?? how cool! I'd like to see that. That's the sort of thing I wish fleetwood mac had been doing since the '80s: just being a sort of austin city limits folk act---or doing peter paul & mary-type shows.

And that's fine, really, if this event comes off, and Stevie comes and plays a bunch of obscure chestnuts, I sincerely hope you all have a really wonderful time and really enjoy yourselves.

stevie doesn't have that kind of personality. I don't think the idea would even occur to her, or if it did, she would immediately dismiss it from her mind as being "unrealistic" or "impossible" or "suicidal."

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by David

really?? how cool! I'd like to see that. That's the sort of thing I wish fleetwood mac had been doing since the '80s: just being a sort of austin city limits folk act---or doing peter paul & mary-type shows.

He's playing a couple of dates in California, you should go! His show at the Greek in LA sold out, I believe, although I bet tickets will be available for cheap in the parking lot the day of the show. He's also playing the Concord Pavilion in San Francisco; those tickets go on sale tomorrow morning.

I hope he does play Austin City Limits, if he extends the tour into the latter half of the summer. This is music that really ought to be played at festivals and fairs. It's a shame he's not doing Bonnaroo. He closed out the first weekend of the New Orleans Jass & Heritage Festival last week, though, and the reviews were pretty raving. Apparently, he's just having a ton of fun doing this, hitting the road with an 18-piece band, all horns and violins and banjos and stuff, and hosting a two-hour hootenanny everywhere he goes.

[amber]

Originally Posted by David

stevie doesn't have that kind of personality. I don't think the idea would even occur to her, or if it did, she would immediately dismiss it from her mind as being "unrealistic" or "impossible" or "suicidal."

Didn't she once have that kind of personality? Is it really impossible? Where's her inflated self esteem? Where's her diva sense of entitlement? Where's her "I am a Rock Star" chutzpah? Her Gemininian desire for infinite variety? That part of her personality that allowed her to compare herself to Bob Dylan?! That girl that flung herself around the stage singing "you're eyes got me dreamin'!" with not a care in the world? The girl who thought not a whit of excessive displays of personality and drug induced performance?
That's what we need now!
It's got to be in there somewhere!!!!!

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by amber

I'm glad you don't respect Stevie less, but sometimes it really sounds like you do, honestly. But if you say you don't, I guess I have to take your word.

It's tough love - Stevie and the rest of them. I see that they still have the potential for greatness, and it pisses me off when they so often settle for mediocrity.

Didn't she once have that kind of personality? Is it really impossible? Where's her high self esteem? Where's her diva sense of entitlement? Where's her "I am a Rock Star" chutzpah? Her Gemininian desire for infinite variety? That part of her personality that allowed her to compare herself to Bob Dylan?! That girl that flung herself around the stage singing "you're eyes got me dreamin'!" with not a care in the world?
That's what we need now!
It's got to be in there somewhere!!!!!

All great questions. I have to admit, it really baffles me, which is why I often sound so frustrated with the woman. Where is that "I'm a rock star!" self-esteem and bravado?

I suppose that's the interesting flipside to the power trip. She feels like she's got this rock star clout and power, and now that she's got it and has had it for so long, she's deathly afraid of losing it. She wants to hold onto it at any cost, and that's why she's so timid and hesitant to take any risks whatsoever. (And before anybody even starts: No. A rock singer performing with a symphony orchestra is not a risk. It's practically a cliche.)

[amber]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

It's tough love - Stevie and the rest of them. I see that they still have the potential for greatness, and it pisses me off when they so often settle for mediocrity.

Ah, but having said that, can you truly say you don't respect them less when they do settle for mediocrity? Cause, again, it sounds like you do.

Oh, and good analysis of the Stevie mindset. It's so Norma Desmond/Baby Jane, I hate it.

[David]

Originally Posted by amber

Didn't she once have that kind of personality?

I sometimes think the only moment she had such a springsteen-like personality was opening night of the bella donna tour on nov 29, 1981, in houston......when she was about to sing a set filled primarily with brand new material. I often wonder just how the hell she got herself emotionally & mentally to do that.

and let's not jump in with the facile excuse-making of "drugs" or "coke" -- she made a very conscious decision to launch a tour the vast majority of which was brand-new material. It's a real anomaly in stevie nicks history. i don't think people appreciate it for the utter bizarreness & unprecedentedness that it was.

So where is THAT stevie? hehhehheh.....

[David]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

I hope he does play Austin City Limits, if he extends the tour into the latter half of the summer. This is music that really ought to be played at festivals and fairs. It's a shame he's not doing Bonnaroo.

Is he doing Sweet Betsy From Pike, do you know?

Also, I'm looking for a live recording of springsteen doing "tears of a clown"-----do you knkow of any?

[amber]

Originally Posted by David

I sometimes think the only moment she had such a springsteen-like personality was opening night of the bella donna tour on nov 29, 1981, in houston......when she was about to sing a set filled primarily with brand new material. I often wonder just how the hell she got herself emotionally & mentally to do that.

and let's not jump in with the facile excuse-making of "drugs" or "coke" -- she made a very conscious decision to launch a tour the vast majority of which was brand-new material. It's a real anomaly in stevie nicks history. i don't think people appreciate it for the utter bizarreness & unprecedentedness that it was.

So where is THAT stevie? hehhehheh.....

Well, aside from that, I was also referring to her previous tendency to sing with anyone, anywhere, anytime, and to make a bunch of stuff up on stage even with her old chestnuts. You know, she once took chances with her vocals as well as her song choice...
And not to resort to the facile, but coke is a self esteem inflating drug. Just saying.
And also, if she did "other" material now, it wouldn't really be "new" material, it would be old material that she just hasn't really done onstage, or at least not much. So it's not like she would be introducing the completely untried.
yargh!

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by amber

Ah, but having said that, can you truly say you don't respect them less when they do settle for mediocrity? Cause, again, it sounds like you do.

No, it's not like I look down on them as bad or lesser people or something. It frustrates me when they settle for mediocrity, but that's their choice. They just get moved on the spectrum, a little further away from "artist" and a little closer to "band-for-hire." Me complaining about that isn't a lack of respect for them, it's just me being frustrated that I seem to be a hell of a lot more intrigued by the possibilities or their art and talent than they do. But there's plenty of room in the world for both artists and bands-for-hire, and neither group is necessarily more respectable than the other.