What if Stevie had left in 1980?

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

I still think that if you go back and look at the actual songs she's given to them post-1980 or so, it will seem that maybe she lost a lot of her motivation towards them and (sorta) started "keeping the good stuff to herself."

Regardless, she was still in the band, not only contributing songs to the albums but also going out on tour. Her presence was integral to the success of the Mirage album and tour, and the band would have been a very different entity had she left (especially if Lindsey had left, too, in her wake).

And Stevie's own career might very well have been much different, too. Bella Donna likely would have been a much more successful album, if not for the fact that it would have had "Gypsy" (in some form), then because she would have been able to tour much more extensively behind it, instead of cutting everything short so she could run off to record Mirage. She also would have had a nice breather in 1982, instead of firing on all cylinders for three years straight as she did...

[Ghost_Tracker]

Originally Posted by mylittledemon

Thats the most narrow minded view I've read yet. Stevie has said on several occasions she always had a dream in the back of her mind that Fleetwood Mac would get back together. She's always wanted to "stay" in Fleetwood Mac. There was no drastic cut back of the Say You Will tour...they toured for the better part of 2 years! durrrr! And as far as the calibre of songs since 1980...thats a pretty poor opinion. Stevie has written some great damn songs "since 1980." Maybe you're not listening hard enough.

Well, please see the post I added below my original one. I TOTALLY agree that she feels loyalty to the band, in terms of ALWAYS being a member and touring, supporting them, etc. It's like they say in "Sopranos" - "Once you're IN . . . you can NEVER get out!" But - I do think that there was a change, around 1980 or so, once her solo career started - in terms of feeling a need to be more independent from the band, and keeping more of "the good stuff" for herself. Trust me - when you go back and compare what she was giving to them in the '70s, compared to post-1980 or so, it's truly surprising - mostly i'm saying that it's MUCH different than one might have imagined.
And if you go through "Say You Will," for example, one song at a time, MUCH of it was actually based on older songs she wrote way back in the 70s - "Goodbye Baby" is perhaps a perfect example - that was originally written as "The Tower" and it's from 1979, I believe (and there's a WONDERFUL demo of it floating around). Anyway if you have the time and feel like it, go back and look, and maybe you'll see what I mean. Also, I agree totally that Stevie has written some WONDERFUL songs since 1980. But go back and look at how many of those - the ones written entirely by Stevie herself which were brand-spanking new - ended up on Fleetwood Mac albums, for their original release - compared to the number which ended up on her solo albums.

[mylittledemon]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

I guess what I'm saying is that in my opinon Fleetwood Mac was tending to get stuff which was "pretty good to REALLY good," whereas as a solo artist she was releasing stuff which was "Really good to STUNNINGLY BRILLIANT.

Ok now that's getting somewhere. It's a just an opinion...my opinion disagrees with you. I like Stevie's solo stuff, but I don't think it's "better" than her Mac-material. I personally feel that Stevie's material is better within the context of the band, production wise, etc...not on her own. Granted she's done some pretty good solo work, but I don't think anything she's done, as a whole, has surpassed her first album.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

But go back and look at how many of those - the ones written entirely by Stevie herself which were brand-spanking new - ended up on Fleetwood Mac albums, for their original release - compared to the number which ended up on her solo albums.

Putting aside the issue of Stevie turning old demos into "new" songs decades down the road, obviously she has more "original" "new" songs on her solo albums than she does on Fleetwood Mac albums. That was the whole point of her launching a solo career - because with multiple songwriters in the band, she could never put as many songs as she wanted on a Fleetwood Mac album.

[Ghost_Tracker]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Gypsy was written before Robin even got sick and it is about STEVIE..

..

Ummm, this is from inherownwords.com -

"'The song Gypsy isn't a real happy story. Gypsy is a lot about returning to San Francisco. And Gypsy was written when my best friend [Robin] died of Leukemia and uh ...about the fact that she wasn't going to see the rest of this: I still see your bright eyes, it was like she wasn't ...going to make it. And uh, I was like the lone gypsy ~ this was my best friend from when I was 15 and so I was a solo gypsy all of a sudden and it was very sad for me and that's sometimes when I write my very best songs.
Robin had been on the road with Fleetwood Mac for five years. As my speech therapist and also management, an incredibly efficient helper. I still miss your bright eyes ~ that's why we don't do it on stage ~ it's because it's really too hard for me to sing. Lightening strikes maybe once, maybe twice... that means one time in your life you find a very good friend, and maybe if you're incredibly lucky, you might find a second. It all comes down to you, means but you have to look very hard.'
~Stevie Nicks, video interview for Fleetwood Mac's Greatest Hits (1988)"

Could it sorta be about BOTH Robin and Stevie? I had also felt it was mostly or all about Stevie, but when I came across this I figured it must've been about her, also. There's other stuff on the same website where she indicates that it IS about her (Stevie), but maybe she just wasn't really ready to talk about it yet. I've gotten the impression that performing it onstage is kinda "therapeutic" for her. ANY-way, overall I think maybe it's about a LOT of things! ( Including LINDSEY of course! )
( "Lightning strikes. . . maybe once....." )

[demonchaser]

I remember an interview where Stevie said Gypsy was originally about her returning to San Francisco. Then when she found out about Robin's illness she added those parts later. This would explain why the "she is dancing away from me now..." verse and the "I still see your bright eyes" lines are not on the Bella Donna Demos.

[Ghost_Tracker]

Originally Posted by demonchaser

I remember an interview where Stevie said Gypsy was originally about her returning to San Francisco. Then when she found out about Robin's illness she added those parts later. This would explain why the "she is dancing away from me now..." verse and the "I still see your bright eyes" lines are not on the Bella Donna Demos.

I never KNEW that!

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by DavidMn

I'm not sure how many shows you attended, but from what I was able to see, they were unbelieveable for all being in their 50's. I know you love Christine, as do I, but I think her not being there is more of a compliment to how good the remeining members still are, not any kind of a detraction to Chris. At least that's how I view it. Would I prefer that Christine was still there, yes, but they moved on very well in her abscence.

David, NObody mentioned Chris. The assertion was made that: Stevie cut the SYW tour short, out of spite, over the running order of SYW. That is the only point being debated. My point was:it certainly WASN'T a short tour, by any stretch.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

The assertion was made that: Stevie cut the SYW tour short, out of spite, over the running order of SYW. That is the only point being debated. My point was:it certainly WASN'T a short tour, by any stretch.

Lindsey was afraid it would be cut short, but it never came to be.

[Ghost_Tracker]

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17

Lindsey was afraid it would be cut short, but it never came to be.

OH okay, that clears up my confusion. It seemed weird to me that they showed (at the end of "Destiny Rules") that Stevie and Lindsey were getting along again (for example, walking out hand-in-hand onto the stage at the beginning of the first show - and if you notice, Stevie intentionally switched positions with him so that he could be "seen first"). I know these things are somewhat choreographed but they really did seem to have worked things out somewhat. I had the impression that Stevie had still cut the tour short though, but I guess they managed to resolve that issue. Gotta admit, it's interesting that they didn't happen to mention that in
"Destiny Rules." Maybe they forgot!
ANY-way I didn't mean to detract from the main point of the thread, which was Jyqm's question about "What if Stevie had [actually] left the band in 1980?" . . . .

[ReFleetwoodMac]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

Gotta admit, it's interesting that they didn't happen to mention that in
"Destiny Rules." Maybe they forgot!

Destiny Rules was about the making of Say You Will. They had not yet not cut the tour short while they were making Say You Will. Even by the first show, which was shown, they had not yet not cut the tour short.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

ANY-way I didn't mean to detract from the main point of the thread, which was Jyqm's question about "What if Stevie had [actually] left the band in 1980?" . . . .

Yeah man, let's get back to that. I thought there'd be all kind of interesting possibilities to talk about and suddenly it's all about the SYW tour.

[Angelick Witch]

[QUOTE=Ghost_Tracker] I had the impression that Stevie had still cut the tour short though, but I guess they managed to resolve that issue. Gotta admit, it's interesting that they didn't happen to mention that in
"Destiny Rules." Maybe they forgot!
QUOTE]

Damn Lindsey, making it all about the double-album. Never got a chance to show any other arguments... *sigh*

[danax6]

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17

Lindsey was afraid it would be cut short, but it never came to be.

Exactly. If you listen closely to what Lindsey says you'd have known that he clearly stated that he couldn't risk Stevie quitting after only 40 shows, and that's why he had to compromise here and there. Which he did.

I think if Stevie left in 1980, she would still have had her successful solo career, and the others, sadly, wouldn't have. Aside from Mirage (and the hit single Gypsy that came from that), Fleetwood Mac did nothing noteworthy until 1987 (though they have proven with TITN that they can have a successful record without much of Stevie's input also). So, it's not like Stevie was riding on that success, she did it pretty much by herself. Also, as some others have mentioned, I don't think Lindsey would have wanted to continue, so I think FM would have bled to death right after 1980. Everybody to this day and age would still know who Fleetwood Mac was (because of Rumours, mostly) but they wouldn't have left as big an impact as they do now, with them having been around for 40 years, and having major success again fairly recently with The Dance, which got them noticed by a whole new generation.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Originally Posted by HomerMcvie

David, NObody mentioned Chris. The assertion was made that: Stevie cut the SYW tour short, out of spite, over the running order of SYW. That is the only point being debated. My point was:it certainly WASN'T a short tour, by any stretch.

There was obviously SOMETHING going on about the length of the tour...however like you said as we all now something must've gotten worked out because the tour certainly ended up NOT being cut back, as it was atleast their second longest tour ever..it may even be longest, compared to Tusk..I would have to compare the actual number of dates...