Fallujah Killings - Page 4

dissention · #46 04-04-2004, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugar
I can't really argue with any of that, to a point. Yes we don't like to take responsibility...yada yada yada. Contracaption is available...yada yada yada...all that is true. And I despise women who use abortion as birth control. BUT we're talking about a child here, and you and strand are focusing on the woman.

So this asshole slut of a woman finds herself pregnant, admittedly because she was an asshole (obviously this isn't always the case, but I think these are the people we're really talking about here). So she needs to "pay" for her mistake; she needs to "deal with the results." So you want this asshole slut to raise a child?!?! Or worse, not?!?!

So this child is born. What do you think happens? She cloisters herself in a burka and says, "I need to deal with this because this is of my own doing"? This child grows up in questionable surroundings, perhaps on the welfare rolls, perhaps getting shuffled from home to home, perhaps because mom NEVER DID take responsibility for this child. What are the chances of this producing an upstanding member of society? When this child mugs you or breaks into your house, you tell me then that this woman got what was coming to her.

That, IMO, is why a statement like this is short-sighted and dumb.

I'm guessing you and strand don't have children...

ITA - and it's these people who are against abortion who bitch and moan about their tax money going to welfare mothers who have to raise these kids under ****ty circumstances.

dissention · #47 04-04-2004, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jwd
We need more sex education in schools and at home from parents.

Exactly. I...agree!

BUT - abstinence is *not* sexual education and shouldn't be pushed as much as it is in certain schools. It's simply unrealistic. Classes on not having sex are not going to stop a kid form having sex if they want to. And, this is just opinion, but I think that those classes also have a negative effect on kids. The way some of these teachers talk about sex, it scares these kids and some of them begin to think negatively of sex. That's just not healthy. So, I say pass out the condoms and diaphragms and jellies, they are more useful than not being handed out. Why tell them not to have sex and not hand out these things, when they'll just turn around and have sex without the aid of them?

Sugar · #48 04-04-2004, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jwd
I'd like to think that adoption would be one of those choices too. There are a lot of people who can't have kids that would love to adopt a child. We need more sex education in schools and at home from parents. Abortion on demand is a horrible thing imo.

Yes, adoption would be a positive choice, but I haven't seen much of that. I've seen much more of these cobbled together low income family unit-type things after one or both birth parents leave the scene. Yes we need more sex ed, and we need to, as a society, lessen our facination with sex. I won't go so far as to say abortion on demand is a horrible thing, but abortion as birth control is a horrible thing.

I would also like to take this moment (now that we're here

) to say that (I believe) those of us who are pro-choice are not pro-abortion. The one thing I think we can all agree on is that we would like to see the day when abortions are, not illegal, but largely unnecessary.

jwd · #49 04-04-2004, 12:35 PM

Quote:

dissention:

Exactly. I...agree!

BUT - abstinence is *not* sexual education and shouldn't be pushed as much as it is in certain schools. It's simply unrealistic. Classes on not having sex are not going to stop a kid form having sex if they want to. And, this is just opinion, but I think that those classes also have a negative effect on kids. The way some of these teachers talk about sex, it scares these kids and some of them begin to think negatively of sex. That's just not healthy. So, I say pass out the condoms and diaphragms and jellies, they are more useful than not being handed out. Why tell them not to have sex and not hand out these things, when they'll just turn around and have sex without the aid of them?

The first line...I never thought I'd see it!

I agree abstinence is not sex education, but it should be taught as an option. It is the only sure way to avoid stds and unwanted pregnancies. Kids need to be made aware that sex is not necessarily bad, but an important and natural part of our existence. I agree with most of your post with the exception of schools handing out the condoms, jellies, and diaphragms. That should be up to the parents imo.

dissention · #50 04-04-2004, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jwd
The first line...I never thought I'd see it!

There's a first for everything.

Rob67 · #51 04-04-2004, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dissention
Another conservative talking about how great Reagan was when he didn't do much of anything. The Cold War? Nothing; the Soviet Union imploded. The economy? It perked up alright, but only after he tripled taxes.

SPIN!!!! BS ALERT!!!

Where did I say anything about how great Reagan was? All I said was that we did okay and he was blamed by the libs for everything under the sun, much like Bush is now.

BTW, there are many reasons why the Soviet Union fell, Reagan did play a part.

Rob

Rob67 · #52 04-04-2004, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dissention
Exactly. I...agree!

BUT - abstinence is *not* sexual education and shouldn't be pushed as much as it is in certain schools. It's simply unrealistic. Classes on not having sex are not going to stop a kid form having sex if they want to. And, this is just opinion, but I think that those classes also have a negative effect on kids. The way some of these teachers talk about sex, it scares these kids and some of them begin to think negatively of sex. That's just not healthy. So, I say pass out the condoms and diaphragms and jellies, they are more useful than not being handed out. Why tell them not to have sex and not hand out these things, when they'll just turn around and have sex without the aid of them?

Now that's just silly...That's like having a parent let their kids drink and do drugs at home. If I had a teen who came home from HS with birth control passed out at the school I would be furious...so would most decent parents. It should be more about education...period. And it isn't unrealistic to think that people can't be responsible, even teenagers. If I can do it then anyone can!

It all boils down to parenting. That's pretty much it... THe people I know who are well adjusted and make good decisions now were usually raised by good parents. The ones with little or poor parenting end up being poor parents and people themselves!

Again...I think people planning on having kids should have to pass some sort of phsycological test. And I stand by my theory that some people need to be "fixed"!!

Rob

strandinthewind · #53 04-04-2004, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jwd
Who on the face of the planet didn't believe that Saddam had WMD? If he didn't have them, why didn't he prove it. Does anyone honestly think that his intentions were good?! That madman was not forthcoming at all. The blame for the misery of the Iraqi people and the deaths of our soldiers falls squarely on the shoulders of that maniacal dictator and all his henchmen.

I agree everyone thought SH had them. My prob is not with that. My prob is with W knowingly lying about the trumped up Niger nuclear cake sale. W and his admin knew this info was false. Yet, they stated it in the SOTU speech to incite more fear and to sell the war they could not previously sell because without this part, there was no immediate danger to America. W's admin. also knowingly equated and linked SH to OBL which they knew was just dead wrong. They did it to justify their war. Those are the thing I find repugnant and unforgiveable. As for the invasion of Iraq, I think we were justified without all of W's lies for the reasons you state. But, I cannot forgive the lies because if he did it once, he'll do it again.

My$0.02

Rob67 · #54 04-04-2004, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sugar
Yes, adoption would be a positive choice, but I haven't seen much of that. I've seen much more of these cobbled together low income family unit-type things after one or both birth parents leave the scene. Yes we need more sex ed, and we need to, as a society, lessen our facination with sex. I won't go so far as to say abortion on demand is a horrible thing, but abortion as birth control is a horrible thing.

I would also like to take this moment (now that we're here ) to say that (I believe) those of us who are pro-choice are not pro-abortion. The one thing I think we can all agree on is that we would like to see the day when abortions are, not illegal, but largely unnecessary.

You are right...the problem with abortion is that it doesn't address the root of the problem...it's just a band aid.

And my whole argument of accountability isn't just directed at "stupid" women who get pregnant. It takes two to tango and guys should be held up to their 50% responsibility. I also think parents of teenagers or even grandparents should be held accountable if their kid gets pregnant.

Rob

dissention · #55 04-04-2004, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I agree everyone thought SH had them.

Not me!

strandinthewind · #56 04-04-2004, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dissention
Not me!

Bless your heart!!!!

dissention · #57 04-04-2004, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rob67
Now that's just silly...That's like having a parent let their kids drink and do drugs at home. If I had a teen who came home from HS with birth control passed out at the school I would be furious...so would most decent parents. It should be more about education...period. And it isn't unrealistic to think that people can't be responsible, even teenagers. If I can do it then anyone can!

It all boils down to parenting. That's pretty much it... THe people I know who are well adjusted and make good decisions now were usually raised by good parents. The ones with little or poor parenting end up being poor parents and people themselves!

Nothing like good generalizations to smooth out the discussion.

If a good parent does not want their kid to have birth control available to them, they just aren't a good parent in my eyes. The next step will be outlawing the sale of birth control to people under 18 and then we'll have an epidemic of child birth that's even worse than it is now.

And it is realistic to think that the majority of teenagers can be responsible. That's why they're called teenagers and not adults. You yourself said that four girls in your senior class had abortions and if you're appalled by that, check out the national statistics. So, how do we remedy the problem? Not by stressing sex ed or abstinence and then not giving the kids an outlet where they can get safe sex products. I bet you if brith control products were available to those girls in your class, only one or two of them would've gotten pregnant.

dissention · #58 04-04-2004, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Bless your heart!!!!

You know I'm a whack job.

gldstwmn · #59 04-04-2004, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I agree everyone thought SH had them. My prob is not with that. My prob is with W knowingly lying about the trumped up Niger nuclear cake sale. W and his admin knew this info was false. Yet, they stated it in the SOTU speech to incite more fear and to sell the war they could not previously sell because without this part, there was no immediate danger to America. W's admin. also knowingly equated and linked SH to OBL which they knew was just dead wrong. They did it to justify their war. Those are the thing I find repugnant and unforgiveable. As for the invasion of Iraq, I think we were justified without all of W's lies for the reasons you state. But, I cannot forgive the lies because if he did it once, he'll do it again.

My$0.02

Let's not forget that Colin Powell has now also admitted the biological weapons mobile units were complete b.s. "The intelligence was bad." Yeah right. They all need to be tried for this.

dissention · #60 04-04-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Let's not forget that Colin Powell has now also admitted the biological weapons mobile units were complete b.s. "The intelligence was bad." Yeah right. They all need to be tried for this.

Yeah, tried, found guilty, and forced to wear scarlett letters on their chests for their remaining years in a ****ty prison with regular shower breaks and slippery soap.