Fallujah Killings

[dissention]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...iraq_images_dc

Great article about what happened in Iraq, but be forewarned: some of the pictures are quite disturbing. Not for the faint of heart.

[strandinthewind]

Apparently, that area is full od bad trouble. I cannot imagine what those poor people went through.

Sad - very sad.

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Apparently, that area is full od bad trouble. I cannot imagine what those poor people went through.

Sad - very sad.

It's heartbreaking. BUT - these are the kinds of things that need to be broadcast on the new every night. Not bull**** about the latest political ads or Karen Hughes' ****ty new book. The media sanitized this war beyond belief and only now are they beginning to come out of their shells and tell it like it is. This is war and its effect. News organizations are saying that they simply can't show these images on TV because they are too disturbing, yet they had no problems whatsoever with blasting pictures of the Hussein brothers all over the airwaves.

[CarneVaca]

Violence begets violence. The most typical reaction I've seen so far is let's blast 'em.

The decision to act violently, when done in ignorance or indifference to past actions, is dangerous and will only provoke more violence.

[DeeGeMe]

Weren't these supposed to be the people who were going to embrace us as their liberators? Yeah, right.

BTW--these guys weren't contractors: they were mercenaries. Ex-military special ops. Blackwater USA operates a paramilitary training camp in North Carolina. Lots of law enforcement agencies send their folks there for special training. I'm not sure what they were doing in Iraq, but these guys weren't there to rebuild the country in the traditional sense of the word. Whatever it was that they were doing, it had a special ops angle to it.

That being said, what happened to them is beyond awful. Thanks Mr. Bush.

[strandinthewind]

I still maintain 80% of the country is peacful. But, that does not mean they want us there any longer than we have to be. Supposedly, we have a June exit date. I do not think that will happen. I think we will be there for years to come.

[strandinthewind]

from the nytimes online (www.nytimes.com)

Marines Defend Decision to Stay Out of Falluja After Killings
By JEFFREY GETTLEMAN

Published: April 1, 2004


ALLUJA, Iraq, April 1 — Marine commanders defended their decision today not to send troops into Falluja to quell the macabre disturbances that followed after four American civilians were killed and their bodies dragged through the streets.

More than 4,000 marines are stationed near the restive town in the Sunni Triangle but when the violence broke out on Wednesday and the streets of Falluja exploded in mayhem, Marine commanders decided not to intervene.

"Should we have sent in a tank so we could have gotten, with all due respect, four dead bodies back?" said Col. Michael Walker, a civil affairs commander. "What good would that have done? A mob is a mob. We would have just provoked them. The smart play was to let this thing fade out."

As the rage cooled and life got back to normal in Falluja today, many townspeople said they felt a mixture of pride and shame. Pride in the attack that killed four American security consultants, who many people in town still think were working for the Central Intelligence Agency. And shame in watching the bodies get ripped apart and mutilated, a grave sin in Islam.

"All the Falluja people accept this incident but they did not accept the dragging of bodies," said Mohammed Khalifa, a trader of spare parts who closed his shop during the disturbance in a sign of disgust. "All men are creatures of God. The clerics will not tolerate this."

American officials said they met today with local leaders, including Falluja's mayor and several clerics. American officials said the clerics committed to issuing a fatwa, or religious edict, at Friday prayers condemning the attack. The clerics also helped American authorities recover three of the four bodies, which were dragged from burning vehicles by a jeering mob and then taken to a bridge over the Euphrates where at least two charred corpses were strung up by a rope and dangled over the water.

American officials said many of Falluja's elders were embarrassed by the grisly scene and all the publicity it received.

"These people are acutely aware that Falluja now has a reputation as the worst place on earth," said an occupation official working in the area, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "But they have to be careful what they say. Or they will end up dead."

Shortly after the meeting with town elders today, a translator for the Marines was shot in the neck. He was in critical condition tonight.

Also today, a Marine Humvee was attacked — twice. First it was disabled by a roadside bomb, which wounded several marines. Then, after the marines left, a crowd set fire to the Humvee in a scene reminiscent of the blaze on Wednesday.

American soldiers have not ventured into downtown Falluja for days. But military commanders said they were not backing off the area, an ongoing flashpoint of anti-American hatred.

"We will be back in Falluja," said Brig. General Mark Kimmitt, deputy operations director for the occupation forces. "It will be at the time and place of our choosing. We will hunt down the criminals. We will kill them or we will capture them. And we will pacify Falluja."

[Sugar]

Originally posted by DeeGeMe
BTW--these guys weren't contractors: they were mercenaries. Ex-military special ops. Blackwater USA operates a paramilitary training camp in North Carolina. Lots of law enforcement agencies send their folks there for special training. I'm not sure what they were doing in Iraq, but these guys weren't there to rebuild the country in the traditional sense of the word. Whatever it was that they were doing, it had a special ops angle to it.

.

My understanding is that they were doing security of some sort.

This is so awful. Beyond words...

[strandinthewind]

AND IMO - the worst part is no matter why we are there or whether it was right or wrong is not the core issue for the Iraqi's anymore. IMO the core issue is we destroyed their country with the promise of a better life. Now we HAVE to stay until we do that. I think for the most part not having SH is a vast improvement and we have or at least are working on improving Iraq. I mean schools have been built, power lines laid, etc. But, we cannot leave until the job is done and that could be YEARS.

[Sugar]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
AND IMO - the worst part is no matter why we are there or whether it was right or wrong is not the core issue for the Iraqi's anymore. IMO the core issue is we destroyed their country with the promise of a better life. Now we HAVE to stay until we do that. I think for the most part not having SH is a vast improvement and we have or at least are working on improving Iraq. I mean schools have been built, power lines laid, etc. But, we cannot leave until the job is done and that could be YEARS.

Truely. What are we going to do--turn around tomorrow and say, "Ya know what everyone was right. We shouldn't be in Iraq. We're gonna pull out tomorrow." We can't.

SH was a bastard, but he was a known quantity and the country was stable. I also believe he had very little connection with any Muslim extremists. And now? There's all these warring factions PLUS the infiltration of extremists from outside the country. There's a lot of people who see this as a power grab, and I don't know who's going to come out on top. And what's to say that if we do leave things in a semi-democratic state, that once we're gone whoever is in power rolls back any and all democratic or more secular rulings and we end up with another Saudi Arabia or Iran. Or worse.

What a morass.

[strandinthewind]

I know - I mean I, being the eternal optimist (ask Dissention ) , would like to think we are doing the right thing. But, the lying to get to the war, having no publicly stated pland and no clearly apparent or discernable plan for rebuilding after the war, and the fleecing of the govt. by Halliburton makes faith a hard thing to hold onto, even for me.

Only time will tell IMO - and I hope it falls out way.

[DeeGeMe]

There's an AP article out today detailing how and why these private security firms are over in Iraq. It seems that there just aren't enough US military personnel to go around so they subcontract with private firms like Blackwater to help them beef up their security. Apparently private security firms are patrolling the airport in Baghdad, provide security for news organizations over there, in addition to being on the ground in more dangerous areas. Bottom line is that there aren't enough troops over there to keep the entire country secure--something the Democrats have said all along and something the Republican administration has denied right from the word "go."

[dissention]

Originally posted by DeeGeMe
There's an AP article out today detailing how and why these private security firms are over in Iraq. It seems that there just aren't enough US military personnel to go around so they subcontract with private firms like Blackwater to help them beef up their security. Apparently private security firms are patrolling the airport in Baghdad, provide security for news organizations over there, in addition to being on the ground in more dangerous areas. Bottom line is that there aren't enough troops over there to keep the entire country secure--something the Democrats have said all along and something the Republican administration has denied right from the word "go."

We're too concerned with shutting down their newspapers than making sure we have enough troops. Where are our allies? Nowhere to be found...

[Rob67]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I still maintain 80% of the country is peacful. But, that does not mean they want us there any longer than we have to be. Supposedly, we have a June exit date. I do not think that will happen. I think we will be there for years to come.

Probably in some degree.

About the war media coverage...the big three networks and CNN usually only report terrorist acts in the country. They neglect to mention the fact that, like you said, 80%, or so, of the country is stable and even peaceful towards Americans. The networks also fail to mention the amount of rebuilding that has gone on in the country since the official end of the conflict. Most Utility levels are higher then when Sadaam was in power and unemployment is much lower.

If I based all my news of Iraq on the networks, I would think the country is going absolutely crazy.

On a side note, my brother’s best friend just returned from his second tour of duty in Iraq (thankfully!) and he said things are actually going great. He said that most of the terrorist acts now being carried out are from outsiders (from Syria, Iran and remnants of Al Qaeda) who have leaked into the country to try and wreck havoc on the troops. He also said the general mood of the military is one of disgust at how the media back home is almost ignoring the huge humanitarian efforts and progress that have taken place since the end of the conflict.

Food for thought…

Rob

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
But, we cannot leave until the job is done and that could be YEARS.

Yup. We're stuck in this horrific cesspool now. Where's the next stop on the Nation Building Express?
Vote carefully in November folks. It's only going to get worse.