Survivors

[GoldDustWoman22]

Ok you say that they wouldn't want to work together if not for the money. What about Soldier's Angel? Or since that's clearly a shipper thing, Mick playing on Stevie's album. Obviously they got a profit from those ventures but I doubt it was anything that was too glorious that they couldn't have turned it down if they didn't want to do it. They obviously have reached a point in their careers where they do have a respect for each other. I don't think Lindsey would have helped Stevie out with that if he really didn't want to do it. He, in no way, shape or form was forced to do that. Same with Mick. I bet you that they are all relatively close friends. To the point that they can go for sometime without seeing each other but when they get back together it's like no time has passed.

And I agree with CADreaming. Just because certain people are shippers doesn't mean that they are senseless. I for one like to consider myself a "sensible shipper"

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by chiliD

If anyone thinks it's MORE than that, they're fooling themselves.

Mick & John are the only ones who PROBABLY go beyond that, since they've been through hell & back together. (other than the occasional session, like Warren Zevon's "Werewolves Of London" or the more recent ZZ Top tribute album creation of "The M.O.B" with Jonny Lang & Steven Tyler, I'm surprised they haven't done more together outside of Fleetwood Mac...which probably boils down to "money", once again).

If they weren't making millions, does anyone (who DOESN'T qualify as a "shipper") REALLY think that Lindsey & Stevie would work together? Sure, they're "ex-lovers", but at this point, they're "co-workers" when Fleetwood Mac is active (or the guarantee of a large payday exists) and that's it. How many of YOUR "co-workers" would you really hang with outside of work, or would stay in touch with if you DIDN'T work together? Uh-huh, I thought so.

Frankly I agree with most of this. Money money money baby. Lindsey's back in it coz he's got a wife, three kids in LA with private schools etc and a 20 million mansion to pay for. He can rationalize it all he wants, but it's money. As for wanting to right some of the past with Stevie, I don't disagree with that either. I think he knows he was a sh*t for a long time and would like to heal that to the extent they can. Age has a way of mellowing everyone and they've known each other for a long time. But if there wasn't still money to be made in FMac I just don't think he'd be in touch with most of them that much. I agree Mick and John would continue to be friendly. I saw an interview with Christine recently promoting her solo album and she said yes she thinks about her former bandmates and misses them, but most especially Mick and John since they go back so far. I think the same is true with Stevie and Lindsey, knowing each other since they were teens.

But never underestimate the power of money.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by chiliD

If they weren't making millions, does anyone (who DOESN'T qualify as a "shipper") REALLY think that Lindsey & Stevie would work together? Sure, they're "ex-lovers", but at this point, they're "co-workers" when Fleetwood Mac is active (or the guarantee of a large payday exists) and that's it. How many of YOUR "co-workers" would you really hang with outside of work, or would stay in touch with if you DIDN'T work together? Uh-huh, I thought so.

I think people who create art together are a bit more than just your generic office co-workers. The feelings involved are so intense that they create a bond. Even the passion and anger of arguing forms a glue of sorts. And then when you reach the height of success together that cements it. There are only 5 people in the world who know what it's like. As Lindsey has said, he hasn't shared as much with anyone else except his family and, in some cases, he has shared things with FM that he didn't even experience with his family.

When you click and are lifted to new heights, I think that there are reasons outside of money that you'd want to light that fire and feel that excitement again. It was amazing for US to watch The Dance and get chills that they could create such a spark after all of those years apart. Don't you think it had to be exciting for them as well. Don't you think that's a high they'd want to have, even if no money was involved.

I saw McCartney on Larry King (with Ringo) talking about how he sat by George's bed and just rubbed his wrist. He demonstrated the movement with his fingers and it was an incredible moment. He loved George and you don't have to be a shipper to see that.

It's stretches credibility to think that people who have shared so much and been tied together for so long, through good or bad, only collaborate for the money. And, after a certain point, money is just not enough. Ennui sets in. I've walked away from situations that weren't fulfilling for me any longer and I had a lot less to fall back on that The Mac.

Even the lure of money doesn't keep your emotions in check, if you just don't want to be somewhere or with some people any longer.

Michele

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Frankly I agree with most of this. Money money money baby. Lindsey's back in it coz he's got a wife, three kids in LA with private schools etc and a 20 million mansion to pay for. He can rationalize it all he wants, but it's money. As for wanting to right some of the past with Stevie, I don't disagree with that either. I think he knows he was a sh*t for a long time and would like to heal that to the extent they can. Age has a way of mellowing everyone and they've known each other for a long time. But if there wasn't still money to be made in FMac I just don't think he'd be in touch with most of them that much. I agree Mick and John would continue to be friendly. I saw an interview with Christine recently promoting her solo album and she said yes she thinks about her former bandmates and misses them, but most especially Mick and John since they go back so far. I think the same is true with Stevie and Lindsey, knowing each other since they were teens.

But never underestimate the power of money.

That's a great point -- and Lindsey has even said sort of the same thing about he and Stevie - that he communicates much more with her outside of FM than he does Mick, John or Christine. Of course, he would have to if he's working on reconciling emotional baggage with her after all these years. How that actually affects their co-worker status and parlays into a tremendous financial windfall, I'm not quite sure...

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by michelej1

Even the lure of money doesn't keep your emotions in check, if you just don't want to be somewhere or with some people any longer.

Michele

Thank you, Michele. You articulated that much better than I did.

[HomerMcvie]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

Frankly I agree with most of this. Money money money baby. Lindsey's back in it coz he's got a wife, three kids in LA with private schools etc and a 20 million mansion to pay for. He can rationalize it all he wants, but it's money. As for wanting to right some of the past with Stevie, I don't disagree with that either. I think he knows he was a sh*t for a long time and would like to heal that to the extent they can. Age has a way of mellowing everyone and they've known each other for a long time. But if there wasn't still money to be made in FMac I just don't think he'd be in touch with most of them that much. I agree Mick and John would continue to be friendly. I saw an interview with Christine recently promoting her solo album and she said yes she thinks about her former bandmates and misses them, but most especially Mick and John since they go back so far. I think the same is true with Stevie and Lindsey, knowing each other since they were teens.

But never underestimate the power of money.

What you said. I believe money is 90% of the reason Lindsey and Stevie are doing it. If FM were just an oldies act( they are, but at least they're a popular oldies act), and very little money was to be had, neither would be involved.

[SteveMacD]

If OOTC, SA, and Time had been hits, there never would have been The Dance. But, the lack of performance of those albums jeopardized all of their separate careers. Reuniting this version of Fleetwwod Mac was really the only way any of them had futures in mainstream music.

[bombaysaffires]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

That's a great point -- and Lindsey has even said sort of the same thing about he and Stevie - that he communicates much more with her outside of FM than he does Mick, John or Christine. Of course, he would have to if he's working on reconciling emotional baggage with her after all these years. How that actually affects their co-worker status and parlays into a tremendous financial windfall, I'm not quite sure...

The windfall comes from the FMac work... tours, albums, etc. That's where the real money still is these days.

The reconciliation with Stevie is separate from that, except of course that it crosses over in the FMac stuff as well. "The big machine".

[CADreaming]

Originally Posted by bombaysaffires

The reconciliation with Stevie is separate from that, except of course that it crosses over in the FMac stuff as well. "The big machine".

Exactly my point. There are emotional ties that contribute to the decision to remain in a band together separate to and more important than financial gain.

[chiliD]

But, see? That's just it...Fleetwood Mac is NOT a band in the literal sense anymore. They're individual musicians/artists who every four years get together for some project, be it an album or tour or both. A band, to me anyway, is an entity that has all its members focusing on a common goal and the "band" is the top priority. Fleetwood Mac ISN'T that. The Rolling Stones aren't that either, and haven't been for 30 years.

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by chiliD

But, see? That's just it...Fleetwood Mac is NOT a band in the literal sense anymore. They're individual musicians/artists who every four years get together for some project, be it an album or tour or both. A band, to me anyway, is an entity that has all its members focusing on a common goal and the "band" is the top priority. Fleetwood Mac ISN'T that. The Rolling Stones aren't that either, and haven't been for 30 years.

But I think Mick and Lindsey would like to be a band, the way you defined it, again. And the reason they want it isn't because they think they are going to make money. SYW didn't make them money and having a new album didn't make it possible to tour either.

That aside, just because they aren't making new music doesn't mean they're only in it for the money. That's like saying you meet up with your family for Thanksgiving just because you're in it for the food.

Not that I don't like homemade mash potatoes, with gravy and butter, a dash of sour cream . . . [salivating] But hey, I love my relatives too!

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

Maybe it's best to think of FM as a big dysfunctional codependent family....

(I am not suggesting this in ANY way represents anyone's real family)

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by michelej1

That's like saying you meet up with your family for Thanksgiving just because you're in it for the food.

Food & Football...what else? Anytime my family gets together it's "Drama"...try to avoid THAT!!

[michelej1]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Food & Football...what else? Anytime my family gets together it's "Drama"...try to avoid THAT!!

I'm from Michigan and the Lions do always play on Thanksgiving, but . . .

Let's say they do hate each other, isn't the pull of being able to play arenas still intoxicating? Aside from the paycheck. There's the glory. The experience. The limos. The planes. The audience. Looking out during World Turning and seeing that vast sea of people as Mick sputters something incomprehensible. Sharing all of that with people you were on stage with 30 years ago in some cases and 40 years ago in others. Heady stuff.

They know they can only do it a couple of more times in this life.

Michele

[seekerj]

Originally Posted by CADreaming

That's ridiculous. Of course they do it because they make money -- but if they didn't care or have emotional ties to the band and each other it may not be enough of a motivation. For example when Lindsey left the band the money factor didn't outweigh the personal/emotional reasons he left. When Christine & Stevie left, it was for personal reasons. Why would they go back strictly for financial reasons if they didn't stay for the same reasons in the first place??

I care about my current coworkers even though I don't have a tremendous history with them (as opposed to the members of Fleetwood Mac). They help me make money too. But, some of my best friends have been people I worked with at previous jobs - friendships dating back 20 years.

But, maybe my opinion will be disqualified. Obviously, all shippers have been deemed brainless.

Yes, that statement in that post was quite ridiculous, I agree.
And...
It's not that Shippers have been deemed brainless. It's that no one is allowed to disagree or have a different opinion at all (Shipper or not)... don't you know that by now???? We are all wrong all the time!