Survivors
 

Ok I know everyone is probably sick and tired of talking about the Mac's use of substances and beverages. However, my whole life I've always heard about rock stars dying tragic deaths because of drugs, depression etc. And usually if they didn't die, the band would break up because it got so out of control. I'm just curious because these 5 seemed to have come out of the 70s and 80s relatively unscathed. And we all know they weren't perfect angels:roll eyes:. Certainly all of them dealt with their own personal demons and consequences but today almost 40 years after the Rumours incarnation of the band got together, the individual members are still making GREAT albums, they all seem to be exceptionally happy and content in their personal lives, and, with the exception of Chris, they seem to have no problem going out on the road and possibly even recording together. What do you guys think it is that allowed this band to really overcome all of it's demons and hard times to really rise up on the other side.

Money.....

I wouldn't say they came out of it unscathed. A lot of stuff fell apart in the wake of their excesses - you basically ended up with 3 maybe 4 addicts. It's a miracle they managed to keep the band going for as long as they did until Lindsey left in '87. And, it's a great question - how/why they managed to pull it back together. Money never stopped other bands from imploding - if anything money was a contributing factor. I would say rehab and therapy must have really worked and a joint effort at recognizing they all do care for each other and have a growing respect for what each person brings to the band. Plus, coming out of the fog and being more mature probably did help them to understand how being in a vehicle like "Fleetwood Mac" only helps them financially if they can work through all the politics and emotions that get in the way.

Agreed that it was money but not only money. It was the magic and the love that kept them together too. Mostly Mick, sometimes Christine, sometimes Lindsey that got them in the same building. I remember reading that Mick and Lindsey ran into each other in a 7-11 or something and started talking after OOTC. They were like family. But a family that made millions when all together. Separately after a while, they could only make thousands.

I seriously think they wore Christine out. They wear me out and I'm only a fan. I think Lindsey was worn out in 1987 from Fleetwood Mac. You're right CADreamin, they did not go unscathed.

Yes when I was thinking about all of this before I posted it, money came to my mind as well. But I realized that money might have been the reason in the late 80s and even the early 90s for some of them. However, right now, I think all of them would be pretty Ok if they never toured as FM again. They all each have their respective projects and I know that for the most part all of them have been relatively smart with their money. I just think that if they really couldn't stand each other they wouldn't really have to. So to me there is a kind of magic that exists between them. You can't deny musical chemistry.

But while they may have not come out entirely unscathed, imo, they did a pretty damn good job of recovering. I would even argue on Chris' behalf too. She chose the decision that was the most healthiest for her. She now knows what is good for her. I also have the feeling that with Christine she wanted to give up FM for awhile before 1998. I think she is probably the most reluctant rockstar ever :laugh:.

With the other members there seems to be a calm about them that I haven't seen much of in really any other rockstars. They each seem to be content with their respective paths of life and to me have a deeper respect for each other. One big thing is none of them tend to long for yesteryear. Which I believe to be a huge contributor to their personal success. And also the one thing that separates them from a lot of other classic rock acts. I agree with the assumption that they are like a family. Despite all the turmoil that happened within the inner circle of the band I believe that they potentially saved each other from the deeper excesses that definitely existed. I think they were protective of each other to a degree that they all felt safe in each other's presence. Did they use drugs? Yes. But so was everyone else at the time. To me, with the exception of a few incidents they got through the days of drug use pretty safely. I definitely think the fact that they were with people they could trust helped them immensely. I think it was probably a combination of the family and their inner strength. That helped them...maybe. Of course everyone knows that as much as you love your family, you have to take a break from them occasionally.;)

Money, but just because they finally decided to use it right. You must realize that cocaine is expensive in the US (you wouldn't believe how cheap is in Peru), so money could be also the reason they were that addicted.

And they were lucky. Mick and Stevie could have died anytime during the 80s. They just realized (Stevie first) they were killing themselves, and it wasn't worth it.

It wasn't easy. I don't know how or when Lindsey or Chris stopped consuming cocaine, but Mick and Stevie's addictions were better known (seemed to be stronger). (And Stevie's klonopin addiction too). Mick tells in his book, about Stevie:

I went on part of her long 1986 tour, playing percussion in a hot band that included Waddy Wachtel on guitar, and I could see that Stevie was running herself right into the ground. She was drinking and doing a lot of cocaine. Every night I'd watch her launch into one of her dancing spins on stage, and each night the spins got more and more dizzy until I was afraid she was going to fall off the stage during a show. "Stevie," I said, "you're going to hurt yourself. You've got to work on getting away from being so high while you're onstage."

She would cry. "Oh Mick, I know it! I don't wanna be like this. I don't wanna need this stuff so much. I'm gonna do something after the tour's over." I knew what Stevie meant. You can't go cold turkey on a major tour after years of partying and having a good time. But now the party was over. It had become an addiction, a way of life. Later, while Fleetwood Mac was laboring in the studio, Stevie and her band went to Australia, where her drinking worsened and she fell off the stage twice. I was afraid she would injure herself, or worse.

Did they use drugs? Yes. But so was everyone else at the time. Was everybody falling off the stage during a show? Twice? I don't think so. Stevie's problem was really serious. She was lucky at the end. So was Mick. He tells in his "Two sticks and a drum" dvd about his heavy addiction. His daughters also talk about it. On those days that was a sad family I'm sure.

I agree that their addictions were definitely serious. I personally never knew about Stevie's falling off the stage incidents:eek:. So glad she got help. However, what I am mainly referring to is the fact that they DID survive. And they by no means were any less addicted than anyone else. However, I'm just wondering what it was that not only made these people survive from the drugs but also thrive in both their personal and professional lives ever since. They came out of the situation tougher than ever. And seemed to have healed all of the old wounds. In the "Two Sticks and a Drum" documentary, Mick even seems to have repaired his relationship with his daughters. I'm in no way denying that they were in bad shape. They themselves have gone on the record to say this many times. However, I am wondering just what it might have been that made ALL of them not only survive the idea but prosper afterwards.

I want to clarify my original point. Money never stopped other bands from imploding, but added fuel to the fire or caused them to implode.

So, I don't believe it's solely money that caused them to regroup in '97 and continue on. They obviously care for one another -- even to the point of helping each other earn a nice living or invest in retirement funds.

Haha, you should do a Fleetwood Mac Retirement Investment Commercial!! :laugh:

If anyone thinks it's MORE than that, they're fooling themselves. :nod:

Mick & John are the only ones who PROBABLY go beyond that, since they've been through hell & back together. (other than the occasional session, like Warren Zevon's "Werewolves Of London" or the more recent ZZ Top tribute album creation of "The M.O.B" with Jonny Lang & Steven Tyler, I'm surprised they haven't done more together outside of Fleetwood Mac...which probably boils down to "money", once again).

If they weren't making millions, does anyone (who DOESN'T qualify as a "shipper") REALLY think that Lindsey & Stevie would work together? Sure, they're "ex-lovers", but at this point, they're "co-workers" when Fleetwood Mac is active (or the guarantee of a large payday exists) and that's it. How many of YOUR "co-workers" would you really hang with outside of work, or would stay in touch with if you DIDN'T work together? Uh-huh, I thought so.

Why does being in a band together automatically mean that you also have to be bosom buddies? That seems to be a rather rare occurrence in rock music. More typically, the greatest bands in history seemed to be full of very different people and full of bickering and tension. But beyond the money, what ultimately holds them together is the chemistry that is so much greater than the sum of its parts. One doesn't necessarily have to love a musician in order to play with them; it's more about the love for the music than the personalities involved. And when the chemistry is good, ones playing gets better, and it challenges you to be take things to the next level.

Specifically with regard to Fleetwood Mac, I think there is a deep level of mutual musical respect, particularly between Stevie and Lindsey. Stevie is in awe of Lindsey as a guitarist and an arranger. Lindsey admires Stevie's ability to render brilliant songs using her rather rudimentary musical skills. She allows Lindsey to take liberties with the production side of her songs, but she also keeps him in check, which results in something that retains Stevie's simplicity while taking on Lindsey's semi-eccentric flourishes. This is the kind of give/take chemistry that he could never get in his own solo work, and he realizes this. He understands that taking input from others (even those he may perceive to be less skilled) enhances his own skills as a musician and producer. If he truly did not believe his participation in Fleetwood Mac was personally beneficial in any way, he would definitely have stayed away. I would venture to guess that Lindsey's own evolution as a musician/songwriter probably slowed after he left Fleetwood Mac in 1987, which could help explain why he never got around to releasing a solo album throughout the ten years of his absence.

Out Of The Cradle????:shrug: The best damned album he's released under his own name?

Oops, forgot about that one. Well, yes, it was his best solo album up to that point. But stylistically it seemed very much in the vein of Tango.

But, at least it moved forward from Tango, which was the next step from Go Insane which was the next step from Mirage which was the next step from Law & Order which was the next step from Tusk.

That's my beef about Seeds We Sow, it doesn't move forward from Gift Of Screws (or Under The Skin, either)...which, compared to those previous albums, were only SLIGHT movements forward from Say You Will. (which I contribute to being that the majority of his material all stemming from the original unreleased GOS material).

That's ridiculous. Of course they do it because they make money -- but if they didn't care or have emotional ties to the band and each other it may not be enough of a motivation. For example when Lindsey left the band the money factor didn't outweigh the personal/emotional reasons he left. When Christine & Stevie left, it was for personal reasons. Why would they go back strictly for financial reasons if they didn't stay for the same reasons in the first place??

I care about my current coworkers even though I don't have a tremendous history with them (as opposed to the members of Fleetwood Mac). They help me make money too. But, some of my best friends have been people I worked with at previous jobs - friendships dating back 20 years.

But, maybe my opinion will be disqualified. Obviously, all shippers have been deemed brainless. :rolleyes: