Stevie & Lindsey Intimacy

[nicole21290]

Originally Posted by michelej1

I don't think "no" is what she always thinks. She's expressly said as much. Oh Stevie you made a terrible mistake.

Michele

For sure. And yet she always speaks about having no regrets and so on. This is why I have trouble with just selecting quotes and putting them here to support a theory. Not only do they change what they say based on their audience, their memories failing, their mood, their current relationship, how much time has passed, but they also stretch the truth or outright lie at times.

That interview continues to fascinate me, however, both what's said and what's implied.

“Now, on the road, we’ve had many really good talks,” he says. “We’ve known each other most of our lives and yet we’re still trying to figure out what’s going on. Obviously, a lot of love as a subtext. But where is that love? How do we get in touch with any of that? For all of us, the decisions we make now are going to determine how we are as people until we die. Stevie and I are trying to look at it...with care.” He grunts a laugh. “It’s significant that someone can end up, you know.... not having killed you!”

“Now I just adore him,” says Nicks, with ravishing candour. “He is my love. My first love and my love for all time. But we can’t ever be together. He has a lovely wife, Kristen, who I really like, and they are expecting their third child. The way he is with his children just knocks me out. I look at him now and just go, Oh, Stevie, you made a mistake!”

She leans forward. “But when we go on-stage together we are able to experience our love affair again - and again and again! For two and a half hours, four times a week...There isn’t really anybody in my life - it wouldn’t be good for me now anyway, I’m always away. But when hard times come over the next 20 or 30 years, when people we love die, he’ll be the first person I’ll call. Knowing that now, I think he has been able to let go of all the nasty things that happened and realise that, like I said to him, Lindsey, you’ll always have me. I’m always a phone call away. So you get it all.”

“It’s a forever story with those two,” grins Fleetwood. “As it is with all of us.”

Originally Posted by michelej1

But you choose to ignore the fact that Stevie rejected the idea that he loved her and told him he would never love anyone but himself. He loved her, but she wasn't his top priority. She didn't feel loved. It seems to me that she always felt neglected and taken for granted. So, yes she has quotes in which she says he never stopped loving her, but she's also said that he hated her and just plain didn't like her. I don't think she's wrong either time. I think that both things are true and that things switch and flip many times, between two people.

And this is where context, hindsight, purpose of interview, and memory come into play. There's a real lack of consistency and real contradiction in what's said so it can be difficult to find the 'truth'. In their lies and in their 'truths'. Often one ends up having to go to a 'well, based on what I know of his/her character, I THINK' kind of angle, which is never conclusive, of course. Which is fine. I tend to be more interested in how they are NOW rather than what went down in the past anyway, to be honest.

I Hate That I Love You does come into play at times with those two, I think.

We tangle a lot, but we love each other - we'll always love each other. He and I will never get away from the fact that we were as one for so many years. (1982)

"You know, I was thinking about it a couple of days ago, Lindsey is probably the man who loved me the most in my life. So when I die I will remember that: that of all the men in my life Lindsey, absolutely, bar none, was the man who loved me the most." (2008)

"It's like Lindsey and me: no matter how many children or grandchildren you have, Lindsey, I'm always gonna be there. Lindsey has these three marvellous children, and that has given him unconditional love, which is what he always wanted. I couldn't give him that. But I know a lot of Lindsey's songs are about me, because a lot of my songs are about him. I call us 'our Miserable Muses'. In a band like Fleetwood Mac, you have arguments, and it makes for great art." She's warming to her theme, the slightest smile playing about her lips. "So is he sorry that our relationship broke up in 1976? Yes. And if he had to do it all over, would he not move to LA, and maybe try to find our record deal in San Francisco? Yes. Because we both believe that we might still be together. Probably not, but it's possible .... When we're together, and people see the two of us walking towards them, we are a force of nature. Absolutely." (2011)

Originally Posted by michelej1

I like the song lyrics too. Always have and I have always read Stevie and Lindsey song lyrics in relationship to one another. But I don't see lyrics as necessarily proving anything. First of all, people use artistic license in song lyrics. That's why Stevie says she left Lindsey, but Dreams seems to say the opposite: that he left her. You sprinkle in some real life, but ultimately you make a good song. Secondly, songs don't have to be about the type of love you're fantasizing about.

Yeah, it's a dialogue. Also, with Stevie, she can use more than one poem for one song, thus conflating events and messages and so on. Lyrics don't necessarily prove anything but they do work for insofar as consistent themes and messages and tone, I believe, in this case. The 'leaving' issues is a funny one - because she left but she also things he basically forced her to leave because of how things were. I don't think Dreams said he left, though. I mean, there was no 'this is it; it's over' anyway - they both might have said it but that's not how it worked up. They broke up in 1976, or she saw it coming to an end in August 1977, or they finally ended in 1987 when he LEFT, or she knew it was over when Lindsey's first child was born, or "who Lindsey and I are to each other will never change" and "there will always be something going on between you and me". She still calls him her 'other half' and leaves it to editors to add PROFESSIONALLY, for goodness' sake.

Originally Posted by michelej1

For instance, Stevie says maybe she worked so hard and so long just to watch you walk out that door and I really think it's the same message that was in Smile At You, written so much earlier. Go on, leave the key here. Save yourself. I think she actually thinks in a way that she has done all she has done just so Lindsey can have the family life he now has. The family life that doesn't include her. I think she thinks she saved him. By the same token, when he says "I did it all for you" he can very well mean it, but not in the "I did it all for you because I wish that we were married and had children of our own" sense.

She may think that and then she goes and basically undermines any emotional significance to his relationship with Kristen at other moments. When ARE you going to tell his wife that you'll both be going back to San Jose? That when one of the two of you dies, the other will be on the bed alone? So far as family goes, she might not be included in that family life (even if we have amusing quotes from 2003 about SnL being able to hang out now, and Stevie being friends with Kristen), but they remain family to each other. And besides, she "insists" on being part of Leelee's life because she feels like she's hers as well, and, as of 2013 in reference to the children, "I get them too".

Love runs deeper from a broken home
Black angel can't stand to be alone

The 'saving' idea is actually a consistent theme for both of them, though Stevie is generally in the place of wanting/needing to be saved, or cared for and protected (when Lindsey writes). I don't actually always think it's so clear-cut as 'Lindsey says 'save me' in the song so HE wants to be saved'; sometimes they both include conversation/dialogue within the song and it's someone else speaking, or they're addressing themselves.

L: Save me a place / I'll come running if you love me today
S: And not all the prayers in the world / Could save us
S: Love somebody / Save their soul
S: Save their lifestyle if you feel it / Don't try to change them
S: Go on, save yourself / Leave the key here
L: Hold me darlin’, don’t let go / Save each other from a world of woe
L: Save me / It's gone too far
S: It could come straight, straight from my heart / Nothing can be saved here
S: To be brave save the stranger / Sable on blond...
S: I can save you / Don't cry baby, I can save you
S: You'd like to save her / But you just can't give it up
S (S. Crow): You were master of so many / But savior to none
S: And it's not enough that you say you love me / It's not enough to just save face
S: You saved my life / I won’t forget it
S: Tonight there are no saviors
S: Ooh...up against the wall, baby / Well, I can't save you this time
S: If that woman could make you crazy / Did she call out, did she say, "Please save me"
S: Love, please save me / Don't let me be blind
S: Try, you can try again / Somebody save me from myself
S: Say goodbye, baby / Well, there isn't time / And you can't save me / Don't try to save me
S: Well, I told you what to do with your life / But you could not save me / I told you what to do with your life / But you did not save me
L: Slow down, baby / Cross that line / If you want to save me / It takes time

As for 'it was all for you', yes, it can be interpreted a few ways, I guess. It's just the idea of nakedly saying 'ALL for YOU' that warms me. But yes, he said this about it: "if you go back to that song “It Takes Time” and thinking maybe about times in the past when maybe I could have shown her a little more love or shown her a way to make her process a bit easier." One thing that sometimes isn't taken into account is the way an artist will focus on a small portion of lyrics and happily explain THOSE while neglecting to explain the majority of the song, which often contains the lyrics I WOULD want explained... I also like the callbacks in ITT to both Show You How and In Our Own Time, to be honest.

Originally Posted by michelej1

When Stevie told Courtney that Lindsey was her musical love, I think she was accurate. I think the music has given them a lasting relationship that would have ended a long time ago, had they not been in this band together. If BN had been a hit, then that music would have kept them together, but I don't know if BN would have had the staying power that FM has had. But if there was no music, then I don't think there would have been any couple for very long. 1975 could have been the end of something instead of the beginning.

The problem is I don't think it IS just a musical love. She's also said he was her romantic love (when she wasn't busy saying it was Joe, lol). The thing with music for them, though, is music is a way of expression, their life, a prism through which they show and understand, and is integral to who they are are people. Music is both what brought them together and keeps them together but without music, there is no them, it's not just there is not relationship.

Originally Posted by michelej1

But this musical love, this level of communication, I guess it's frustrating at times, because if there's no music, then how else can you relate? I think that with Stevie and Lindsey and the FM members in general, you have this great love, but no real way of expressing it, except when you're creating music. And they feel "I've shared so much with this person, how is it that we can have nothing to talk about, if it's not a demo?"

They seem to be able to talk, even about things other than demos, lol. And not just discussing what sports and hobbies Lindsey has to drive the children to. They have a shared life, shared memories, that probably provide plenty of conversation.

“And I said to him: ‘I believe that you and I need to remember who we were when we were 16 and 17 years old. We need to remember that we were really good friends before we ever had a date. We need to remember how much we respected each other, how much fun we had – and how much fun we can have when we’re both in good spirits. And we need to take that power couple on to the stage."

"Well, we had a great four days. I went up to Lindsey's house and we, I put some vocals on two songs and then we recorded another song. And actually sat around and told stories to my assistant and laughed and cried and had to be focused back in to do the recording that we were doing because we can, we are best storytellers. Especially if someone doesn't know all the stories, we are the greatest. And we can just sit and tell you stories for days."

"A lot of times it's just me and Lindsey [Buckingham]. You know, we have a lot of the same problems that we've always had, which is our egos. And we've had a lot of fights. But we spend hours talking -- we're like a bunch of girls sometimes. We'll be putting a guitar part on, and all of a sudden we'll be talking about something that happened on the Tusk tour, and two hours later we're still talking about it."

Originally Posted by michelej1

In fact, I think that's what Lindsey has wanted to preserve since the SYW album started. It's like, I've known her since I was 16, we should be able to get along. And that he's wanted the need to argue with and hurt each other with words to finally stop. Just because this is not the person you're sleeping with or could have built a home and a family with does not mean they're not your partner. And it's possible to have that partnership and rejoice in it and have outgrown the yearning for something else.

Certainly, he's said multiple times since SYW things along those lines. There were a few interviews just before Unleashed where he was also very heavily focused on HER - building that relationship seemed to be paramount in touring. I think partnership is a good phrase for it. And I agree and think they are able to rejoice in it and enjoy it more now. I mean, they had THE TALK for a reason - she didn't want to go onstage unless they could embrace who they had been, a cute, compassionate, loving power couple. I don't think they've outgrown yearning for something more than a partnership though, particularly from Lindsey's side. His songs are still filled with a yearning for more, a need to touch and connect, a need to protect and care for. There's also a lot of lies/truth, right/wrong, underground, crossing of lines, underground business, crimes, royalty, clues, fires, rooms, oceans and seas, and dreams to contend with, lol.