Mick denies Stevie Nicks kicked Lindsey out of

[Storms123]

Mick better practice up on his answers because he's doing another meet and greet. I would not be surprised if before they start the fans are told "NO LINDSEY QUESTIONS"

I think the meet and greets/interviews and press they have to do are going to be the most entertaining part of this tour.

[Dr.Brown]

I think the meet and greets/interviews and press they have to do are going to be the most entertaining part of this tour.

Agreed, watching them squirm on the hot seat, dodging questions, or turning tail so they doesn't have to face the reality of their 'ugly' actions will definitely warrant breaking out some popcorn. :laugh:

[GypsySorcerer]

At least he's learned he needs to do this. Hopefully it will keep him from going bankrupt yet again.

Rock star: "I can afford to buy seven houses!" Accountant: "Yes, but can you afford years of paying all the property taxes, upkeep, etc. on all those houses in addition to all the other purchases you're going to make? Those houses will wind up costing you a great deal more than their asking price over the years." Rock star: "Er... oh."

I do think another reason he went bankrupt is his tendency to pour money into ill-conceived business ventures. One can understand those electronic drum things he did a while back although that failed, but there was also the wine, the jewelry(!), etc... investments that didn't pay off.

I'd forgotten about the jewelry, but I do vaguely remember it now. :distress:

Yeah, with the failed business ventures, three divorces, and his expensive tastes (even Stevie said he loved beautiful things), it's not surprising he's gone broke. I mean, look at all these NBA players who make millions as professional athletes and then end up bankrupt. :shrug:

[TheWildHeart67]

[QUOTE]I will find it hard to trust that Elle had a conversation with Rick without some proof. I know you all don't know how trustworthy I am, but I have actually spoken with two sources; one in Lindsey's production team and one in his management team. That's all I can say about that/QUOTE]
This is totally silly.
You keep saying you don't care if people believe you or not. Yet you keep posting about it over and over.

[Dr.Brown]

[QUOTE]I will find it hard to trust that Elle had a conversation with Rick without some proof. I know you all don't know how trustworthy I am, but I have actually spoken with two sources; one in Lindsey's production team and one in his management team. That's all I can say about that/QUOTE]
This is totally silly.
You keep saying you don't care if people believe you or not. Yet you keep posting about it over and over.

Textbook example of a troll (Not referring to you, TheWildHeart67 or Elle): Repetitive posts claiming they know their source is true without offering proof, then turning around and stating they can't trust someone else's source. :rolleyes:

[Sugar Mouse]

[QUOTE=TheWildHeart67;1229623]

Textbook example of a troll (Not referring to you, TheWildHeart67 or Elle): Repetitive posts claiming they know their source is true without offering proof, then turning around and stating they can't trust someone else's source. :rolleyes:

Ya ... every media reports says Lindsey wanted to delay the tour until next year while there are ZERO media reports that contradict that story. Yet somehow I'm supposed to believe the conspiracy theory you all have latched onto.

[TheWildHeart67]

[QUOTE]Textbook example of a troll (Not referring to you, TheWildHeart67 or Elle): *Repetitive* posts claiming they know their source is true without offering proof, then turning around and stating they can't trust someone else's source. :rolleyes:/QUOTE]
Dr Brown, agreed.

[SteveMacD]

Agreed, watching them squirm on the hot seat, dodging questions, or turning tail so they doesn't have to face the reality of their 'ugly' actions will definitely warrant breaking out some popcorn. :laugh:

Except, they may be limited as to what they’re allowed to say if there is something going on legally. If that’s the case, I’m sure Lindsey would also dodge questions from TMZ or even fans. I think his comments at the fundraiser are as much as he’s going to say about it for a while.

[Sugar Mouse]

[QUOTE]Textbook example of a troll (Not referring to you, TheWildHeart67 or Elle): *Repetitive* posts claiming they know their source is true without offering proof, then turning around and stating they can't trust someone else's source. :rolleyes:/QUOTE]
Dr Brown, agreed.

Only on this forum is wanting evidence trolling. Seems like there's a lot of folks here who have made up their minds and don't care if there is any evidence supporting their views. The only evidence supporting your conspiracy theory is a Facebook thread by a session guitarist offering second hand information. Again, there are dozens of media reports on this story and NONE of them contradict the story that Lindsey wanted to delay/change the Fleetwood Mac tour and the band didn't want to change the tour schedule so they fired him.

[Dr.Brown]

[QUOTE=Dr.Brown;1229624]

Ya ... every media reports says Lindsey wanted to delay the tour until next year while there are ZERO media reports that contradict that story. Yet somehow I'm supposed to believe the conspiracy theory you all have latched onto.

The media is simply echoing the same official narrative being put out, claiming that Lindsey demanded Fleetwood Mac not tour for nearly two years after MusiCares. I've stated elsewhere that this claim makes absolutely no sense - he has never made such an extensive tour. This is not a conspiracy theory. Lindsey's not an idiot and he knows that time is not on the band's side. At the political fundraiser, in his brief remarks he made it clear that his firing was not his choice and was the result of a 'faction' within the band. He addressed what happened briefly in a dignified manner without elaborating further since he knew that he himself was not the focus of the fundraiser and he went on to make political remarks. From his point of view, nothing more needs to be said. However his [insert 'ugly' word here] came about, Mick has made it clear that the 'majority' ruled.

[Storms123]

Except, they may be limited as to what they’re allowed to say if there is something going on legally. If that’s the case, I’m sure Lindsey would also dodge questions from TMZ or even fans. I think his comments at the fundraiser are as much as he’s going to say about it for a while.

I agree--I am sure there are some handcuffs as to what all parties can and cannot say--that said, the band can do a better job of getting their "story" straight. Again--if they weren't lying or withholding info--the 2 interviews they've already done wouldn't have been such epic disasters. They need some coaching before they hit the road. I would personally leave the "twirling in my living room" comments to a minimum" I would also stop blinking incessantly, and staring at my finger nails until the floor swallows me up---but those are just some quick observations. I am sure there are others :)

[SteveMacD]

CBS
"This team wanted to get out on the road. And one of the members did not want to get out on the road for a year," Nicks said.

Rolling Stone
“We were supposed to go into rehearsal in June and he wanted to put it off until November [2019],” says Nicks.

“For a year.” A year from when? January, 2018 or November, 2018? Also, I wonder if the RS interviewer clarified 2019 with the band or if that was just an interpretation of what they said (a faulty reading between the lines)? Because, without “[2019]” to me, it looks like Stevie is saying Lindsey wanted to delay the tour by five months, which is still probably not true.

[Sugar Mouse]

[QUOTE=Sugar Mouse;1229625]

The media is simply echoing the same official narrative being put out, claiming that Lindsey demanded Fleetwood Mac not tour for nearly two years after MusiCares. I've stated elsewhere that this claim makes absolutely no sense - he has never made such an extensive tour. This is not a conspiracy theory. Lindsey's not an idiot and he knows that time is not on the band's side. At the political fundraiser, in his brief remarks he made it clear that his firing was not his choice and was the result of a 'faction' within the band. He addressed what happened briefly in a dignified manner without elaborating further since he knew that he himself was not the focus of the fundraiser and he went on to make political remarks. From his point of view, nothing more needs to be said. However his [insert 'ugly' word here] came about, Mick has made it clear that the 'majority' ruled.

Please post any media reports that support your view. Until there is a reliable media report to the contrary, I will believe the band's story.

[SteveMacD]

Also, note that Stevie is the only one saying Lindsey wanted to delay the tour.

[TheWildHeart67]

[QUOTE]Only on this forum is wanting evidence trolling. Seems like there's a lot of folks here who have made up their minds and don't care if there is any evidence supporting their views. The only evidence supporting your conspiracy theory is a Facebook thread by a session guitarist offering second hand information. Again, there are dozens of media reports on this story and NONE of them contradict the story that Lindsey wanted to delay/change the Fleetwood Mac tour and the band didn't want to change the tour schedule so they fired him./QUOTE]
Suger,
I am not one of those that believes any of the conspiracy theories.
And I felt it was out of line when Homer told you to shut up.
But now, you are seriously trying to stir the pot and it takes two to tango.
That's all I am saying.

[Dr.Brown]

[QUOTE=Dr.Brown;1229629]

Please post any media reports that support your view. Until there is a reliable media report to the contrary, I will believe the band's story.

Why do you have such a obsessive reliance on 'media reports'? Aren't you capable of independent thought? This was an objective analysis based on events and statements captured on video - the public sources are out there and I refuse to post links for the umpteenth time.

SteveMacD is correct that a delay until November was said verbally in the RS interview and then someone added the 2019 date in brackets meaning that it was not part of the original quote. A delay of a few months might seem reasonable - a delay of nearly two years from Janaury 2018 is not - so this is the narrative that someone decided to push. Again, never in a million years would Lindsey have insisted on such a ludicrous delay - end of story. Lindsey was 'ugly-worded' and there's really no point in his rebutting this claim. As pointed out he may likely be prevented from doing so, under threat of legal action, even if he wanted to clarify further.

[TheWildHeart67]

[QUOTE]Why do you have such a obsessive reliance on 'media reports'? Aren't you capable of independent thought?/QUOTE]
Dr Brown, it is clear Sugar wants to argue and will continue to do so, regardless.

[sue]

[QUOTE=Dr.Brown;1229629]

Please post any media reports that support your view. Until there is a reliable media report to the contrary, I will believe the band's story.


I too believed the bands story, gullible yes I know.
But because of your persistence I am or indeed have turned.
Methinks you do protest too much.
The truth will out, we will just have to wait awhile.....

[David]

I'd forgotten about the jewelry, but I do vaguely remember it now. :distress:

Yeah, with the failed business ventures, three divorces, and his expensive tastes (even Stevie said he loved beautiful things), it's not surprising he's gone broke. I mean, look at all these NBA players who make millions as professional athletes and then end up bankrupt. :shrug:

I concur. Suze Orman moment: Wealth isn't what you bring in. Wealth is how you manage what you bring in. It's what you have left after your shopping binge.

[David]

Why would it have been such a big deal for Lindsey to play little theaters on Fleetwood Mac nights off? What's the problem? He undoubtedly would have created a solo set list that didn't include anything in the Mac set. I'd bet my life on that. He'd have thought it was asinine to replay anything from the Mac set.

Here's what you say to a "promoter": This is what we're doing. Take it or leave it.

[lovethemac1]

[QUOTE=Dr.Brown;1229629]

Please post any media reports that support your view. Until there is a reliable media report to the contrary, I will believe the band's story.

Your choice 100%, but STOP constantly arguing with everyone. WE KNOW your stance.

To do the same to you: I do find your report to be suspect, I have no idea who you are and I don't believe that you have any insider knowledge that you keep spouting about. Until you prove to all of us that your info is correct. Care to anti up anything that can prove what your "insider" told you???

[Sugar Mouse]

Here's what you say to a "promoter": This is what we're doing. Take it or leave it.

Apparently that's what Lindsey must have said and they said "leave it."

[dreamsunwind]

Why would it have been such a big deal for Lindsey to play little theaters on Fleetwood Mac nights off? What's the problem? He undoubtedly would have created a solo set list that didn't include anything in the Mac set. I'd bet my life on that. He'd have thought it was asinine to replay anything from the Mac set.

Here's what you say to a "promoter": This is what we're doing. Take it or leave it.

At least amongst band members I bet Stevie would not have liked the idea at all since she's always liked to say that she never ever lets her solo career interfere with Fleetwood Mac.

[Sugar Mouse]

[QUOTE=Sugar Mouse;1229632]

Your choice 100%, but STOP constantly arguing with everyone. WE KNOW your stance.

To do the same to you: I do find your report to be suspect, I have no idea who you are and I don't believe that you have any insider knowledge that you keep spouting about. Until you prove to all of us that your info is correct. Care to anti up anything that can prove what your "insider" told you???

Not sure there's anything I can say to convince you all. I guess you'll believe me when the truth comes out. Two people confirmed the band's story to me. The first person is very high up in Lindsey's production/recording team while the second is high up in the management team. I didn't record the conversations.

[lovethemac1]

[QUOTE=lovethemac1;1229643]

Not sure there's anything I can say to convince you all. I guess you'll believe me when the truth comes out. Two people confirmed the band's story to me. The first person is very high up in Lindsey's production/recording team while the second is high up in the management team. I didn't record the conversations.

I chose to not believe your story, you can't substantiate it.

[Storms123]

[QUOTE=lovethemac1;1229643]

Not sure there's anything I can say to convince you all. I guess you'll believe me when the truth comes out. Two people confirmed the band's story to me. The first person is very high up in Lindsey's production/recording team while the second is high up in the management team. I didn't record the conversations.

I can't believe I am jumping into this fray, but didn't Lindsey's management team drop him...they were the same team representing the band, so if that is in fact the case, why don't the stories being told publicly jive in a cohesive manner? The band wouldn't have nearly been so uncomfortable in their 2 public interviews which you can access if in fact this story is factual.

[secondhandchain]

[QUOTE=Sugar Mouse;1229648]

I can't believe I am jumping into this fray, but didn't Lindsey's management team drop him...they were the same team representing the band, so if that is in fact the case, why don't the stories being told publicly jive in a cohesive manner? The band wouldn't have nearly been so uncomfortable in their 2 public interviews which you can access if in fact this story is factual.

Sugar mouse = suspiciously new member / Karen/ Stevie/mick

[dreamsunwind]

[QUOTE=Sugar Mouse;1229648]

I can't believe I am jumping into this fray, but didn't Lindsey's management team drop him...they were the same team representing the band, so if that is in fact the case, why don't the stories being told publicly jive in a cohesive manner? The band wouldn't have nearly been so uncomfortable in their 2 public interviews which you can access if in fact this story is factual.

I don't think it's confirmed that they dropped him. But it sure is interesting how a random person can claim that they suddenly got sources "high up" in Irving Azoff Management! Also in Lindsey's "production team" which is essentially just Libdsey himself with a mixer and the occasional other person here and there as his album credits show.

[Sugar Mouse]

[QUOTE=Sugar Mouse;1229648]

I can't believe I am jumping into this fray, but didn't Lindsey's management team drop him...they were the same team representing the band, so if that is in fact the case, why don't the stories being told publicly jive in a cohesive manner? The band wouldn't have nearly been so uncomfortable in their 2 public interviews which you can access if in fact this story is factual.

Huh? That makes no sense. The band likely looked uncomfortable because it's uncomfortable to talk about firing the creative leader of the band for the last 42 years.

[secondhandchain]

Sugar mick...I mean Stevie ...I mean tell your compadres we are not going to see this literal sh$t show.

[lovethemac1]

[QUOTE=Sugar Mouse;1229648]

I can't believe I am jumping into this fray, but didn't Lindsey's management team drop him...they were the same team representing the band, so if that is in fact the case, why don't the stories being told publicly jive in a cohesive manner? The band wouldn't have nearly been so uncomfortable in their 2 public interviews which you can access if in fact this story is factual.

I believe you are 100% correct.

[Storms123]

[QUOTE=Storms123;1229650]

I don't think it's confirmed that they dropped him. But it sure is interesting how a random person can claim that they suddenly got sources "high up" in Irving Azoff Management! Also in Lindsey's "production team" which is essentially just Libdsey himself with a mixer and the occasional other person here and there as his album credits show.

I wasn't completely sure if they did or not--there were rumblings of it here I believe, but yes! As far as production--Lindsey really is a one man band.

[lovethemac1]

Sugar mick...I mean Stevie ...I mean tell your compadres we are not going to see this literal sh$t show.

Hahahahaha, it's completely crazy..:]

[Sugar Mouse]

[QUOTE=Sugar Mouse;1229648]

I chose to not believe your story, you can't substantiate it.

Of course, it's your choice whether to believe anything someone says. By the way, I'm not saying what these two people said is true. All I'm saying is that's what they told me. They could, of course, be under Stevie's spell. :nod:

[Storms123]

[QUOTE=Storms123;1229650]

Huh? That makes no sense. The band likely looked uncomfortable because it's uncomfortable to talk about firing the creative leader of the band for the last 42 years.

They looked uncomfortable because they were lying. The 3 of them, because John doesn't speak, weren't even singing from the same hymnal. And they were sitting next to each other. The people who interviewed them on XM Sirius even said as much in their interview--separate from the CBS debacle --you can hear the outtakes from it.

[ryan4136]

The MAC dropped Azoff too.

[lovethemac1]

[QUOTE=lovethemac1;1229649]

Of course, it's your choice whether to believe anything someone says. By the way, I'm not saying what these two people said is true. All I'm saying is that's what they told me. They could, of course, be under Stevie's spell. :nod:

You are Mick, aren't you????????????? :shrug:

[Storms123]

[QUOTE=lovethemac1;1229649]

Of course, it's your choice whether to believe anything someone says. By the way, I'm not saying what these two people said is true. All I'm saying is that's what they told me. They could, of course, be under Stevie's spell. :nod:

So wait--now you are saying the "sources" you are choosing to believe might not be telling the truth?

Does anyone have a magic 8 ball--maybe that can tell us what really happened?

[Dr.Brown]

[QUOTE=Sugar Mouse;1229660][/B]

So wait--now you are saying the "sources" you are choosing to believe might not be telling the truth?

Does anyone have a magic 8 ball--maybe that can tell us what really happened?

Somebody better make a damned good ballad out of all this. :laugh:

[jmn3]

[QUOTE=Storms123;1229650]

Sugar mouse = suspiciously new member / Karen/ Stevie/mick

I’ve been thinking Mick for a bit. Karen’s a possibility. But no way in hell is it Stevie unless someone else is just typing her words. Pretty sure she can barely function with a push button land line.

[jmn3]

[QUOTE=lovethemac1;1229649]

Of course, it's your choice whether to believe anything someone says. By the way, I'm not saying what these two people said is true. All I'm saying is that's what they told me. They could, of course, be under Stevie's spell. :nod:

Ah yes, they! They told me. They said so. Who are they? Name your dang sources.

I feel like we’re one step away from “many people are saying...” territory

[SteveMacD]

Sugar Mouse, the thing I don’t get is that you say Rick Turner was probably getting second or third hand information which was probably unreliable, but your second or third hand information is somehow rock solid?

[TrueFaith77]

Why engage this person who hasn’t even expressed knowledge or enthusiasm about the band?

I am going to block. I hope others do too.

[TheWildHeart67]

Why engage this person who hasn’t even expressed knowledge or enthusiasm about the band?

I am going to block. I hope others do too.
Yeah. It's becoming obvious, this Sugar person is seeking attention and nothing more.

[Sugar Mouse]

Why engage this person who hasn’t even expressed knowledge or enthusiasm about the band?

I am going to block. I hope others do too.

Huh? And I've posted a bunch on my favorite FM songs including Peter Green, Danny Kirwan, and Bob Welch songs. Did you miss those or are you just trying to be misleading because you and I have different views?

[sodascouts]

http://m.tmz.com/#2018/05/26/mick-fleetwood-denies-stevie-nicks-ultimatum-lindsey-buckingham/

Can we read anything from the body language? We can take the "no, no" at face value, of course, but the way that reporter ran all those sentences together, I think Mick would not have not too many twinges of conscience if he fudged a bit.

I think the TMZ guy hoped Mick would stop and elaborate, but no such luck.

I want the TMZ guy to ambush Lindsey!

[Angel75]

Sugar Mouse, the thing I don’t get is that you say Rick Turner was probably getting second or third hand information which was probably unreliable, but your second or third hand information is somehow rock solid?

Exactly!
Also your 'sources' close to Lindsey seem, but correct me if I am wrong, unsympathetic to firing almost as if he deserved it, but possibly this is your view of this information. Wouldn't sources close to Lindsey be pretty furious at the whole thing?

[Dr.Brown]

[QUOTE=Sugar Mouse;1229660]

You are Mick, aren't you????????????? :shrug:

He awaits, to be summoned...just like the Kraken...:eek:

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/singersongwriter-mick-fleetwood-is-photographed-for-playboy-magazine-picture-id612579102

[Sugar Mouse]

Exactly!
Also your 'sources' close to Lindsey seem, but correct me if I am wrong, unsympathetic to firing almost as if he deserved it, but possibly this is your view of this information. Wouldn't sources close to Lindsey be pretty furious at the whole thing?

Again, they told me that Lindsey was pushing to move the tour until late 2019 and the band got fed up and fired him. I said nothing about whether they were sympathetic or not to Lindsey's plight. They were sad that it came to a parting of the ways and they said they understood both positions; the band's position that Lindsey had agreed to the tour and then changed his mind and pushed to move it back until next year and Lindsey's position that the band owed it to him to be very flexible with rescheduling dates.

[Dr.Brown]

Again, they told me that Lindsey was pushing to move the tour until late 2019 and the band got fed up and fired him. I said nothing about whether they were sympathetic or not to Lindsey's plight. They were sad that it came to a parting of the ways and they said they understood both positions; the band's position that Lindsey had agreed to the tour and then changed his mind and pushed to move it back until next year and Lindsey's position that the band owed it to him to be very flexible with rescheduling dates.

Again, your sources are full of sh!t - claiming that Lindsey would demand that Fleetwood Mac wait nearly two years to tour again. No matter whose camp I was in, there's no way in hell I would understand such an insane proposition. If you take them at their alleged word, no questions asked, then it really is hopeless for anyone to further discuss this matter with you.

[dreamsunwind]

Again, your sources are full of sh!t - claiming that Lindsey would demand that Fleetwood Mac wait nearly two years to tour again. No matter whose camp I was in, there's no way in hell I would understand such an insane proposition. If you take them at their alleged word, no questions asked, then it really is hopeless for anyone to further discuss this matter with you.

If these 'sources' even exist.

[elle]

Again, your sources are full of sh!t - claiming that Lindsey would demand that Fleetwood Mac wait nearly two years to tour again. No matter whose camp I was in, there's no way in hell I would understand such an insane proposition. If you take them at their alleged word, no questions asked, then it really is hopeless for anyone to further discuss this matter with you.

those sources miraculously showed up in Mick / Sugar's (or is it Neil maybe? :laugh:) mind since he / she first started posting claiming to not know anything. these imaginary sources then confirmed Sugar's fantasies. :lol:

[SteveMacD]

If these 'sources' even exist.

And, the thing about Rick Turner talking about his sources, he’s been associated with Fleetwood Mac since at least 1974, when John started playing Alembics. So he has some credibility when he talks about HIS sources. He knows that his source is legitimately connected with Lindsey. That’s not my issue with Rick’s comment. MY issue is whether or not the source had all of the information about what went down, or just one side.

But Sugar Mouse still hasn’t answered my question.

[elle]

And, the thing about Rick Turner talking about his sources, he’s been associated with Fleetwood Mac since at least 1974, when John started playing Alembics. So he has some credibility when he talks about HIS sources. He knows that his source is legitimately connected with Lindsey. That’s not my issue with Rick’s comment. MY issue is whether or not the source had all of the information about what went down, or just one side.

i would assume that Rick's source has Lindsey's side. is that what you mean?

now remember we also have Brett's side and he was there for some of the events, as photos and videos show.

[David]

Again, they told me that Lindsey was pushing to move the tour until late 2019 and the band got fed up and fired him. I said nothing about whether they were sympathetic or not to Lindsey's plight. They were sad that it came to a parting of the ways and they said they understood both positions; the band's position that Lindsey had agreed to the tour and then changed his mind and pushed to move it back until next year and Lindsey's position that the band owed it to him to be very flexible with rescheduling dates.

"Probably some of you know that, for the last three months, I have sadly taken leave of my band of 43 years, Fleetwood Mac. This was not something that was really my doing or my choice. I think what you would say is that there were factions within the band that had lost their perspective. ... The point is that they'd lost their perspective, and what that did was to harm — and this was the only thing I'm really sad about, and the rest of it becomes an opportunity — but it harmed the 43-year legacy that we had worked so hard to build. And that legacy was really about rising above difficulties in order to fulfill one's higher truth and one's higher destiny."

Now, what do these noble sentiments have to do with pushing back a tour? Why on earth would Lindsey be talking about the band's "higher truth" and its legacy if he really just wanted to put Fleetwood Mac on yet another hold while he worked solo? Doesn't add up. If they didn't let him work solo in 2018 and demanded instead that this be a year of band activity, he'd have said something a lot more along the lines of "Factions within the band [fill in with whatever highflown Lindseyisms you want] decided that they didn't want to wait for me to finish a solo project." Or he may have said "We weren't all on board about the importance of recording new music to fulfill the band's higher truth."

He's talking about "legacy" and "destiny" because a) he talks like that anyway, and b) he wasn't on board with another big touring circus of very old music. He was worried about the band's legacy — about not creating anything new. He's always been about creating something new. That's what he values. (Whether or not his creations were really new is an entirely different and irrelevant matter.) Another year of touring behind the White Album and Rumours is not his idea of adding to a legacy. That's why Mick and Stevie got "fed up" (as you put it). This mess wasn't about rescheduling dates.

[Sugar Mouse]

Again, your sources are full of sh!t - claiming that Lindsey would demand that Fleetwood Mac wait nearly two years to tour again. No matter whose camp I was in, there's no way in hell I would understand such an insane proposition. If you take them at their alleged word, no questions asked, then it really is hopeless for anyone to further discuss this matter with you.

Why does it bother you all so much that I'm stating what every media outlet has reported for the last month? If it makes you feel better to cling to your conspiracy theory, then so be it.

[Sugar Mouse]

"Probably some of you know that, for the last three months, I have sadly taken leave of my band of 43 years, Fleetwood Mac. This was not something that was really my doing or my choice. I think what you would say is that there were factions within the band that had lost their perspective. ... The point is that they'd lost their perspective, and what that did was to harm — and this was the only thing I'm really sad about, and the rest of it becomes an opportunity — but it harmed the 43-year legacy that we had worked so hard to build. And that legacy was really about rising above difficulties in order to fulfill one's higher truth and one's higher destiny."

Now, what do these noble sentiments have to do with pushing back a tour? Why on earth would Lindsey be talking about the band's "higher truth" and its legacy if he really just wanted to put Fleetwood Mac on yet another hold while he worked solo? Doesn't add up. If they didn't let him work solo in 2018 and demanded instead that this be a year of band activity, he'd have said something a lot more along the lines of "Factions within the band [fill in with whatever highflown Lindseyisms you want] decided that they didn't want to wait for me to finish a solo project." Or he may have said "We weren't all on board about the importance of recording new music to fulfill the band's higher truth."

He's talking about "legacy" and "destiny" because a) he talks like that anyway, and b) he wasn't on board with another big touring circus of very old music. He was worried about the band's legacy — about not creating anything new. He's always been about creating something new. That's what he values. (Whether or not his creations were really new is an entirely different and irrelevant matter.) Another year of touring behind the White Album and Rumours is not his idea of adding to a legacy. That's why Mick and Stevie got "fed up" (as you put it). This mess wasn't about rescheduling dates.

Let's dissect Lindsey's statement that you posted above.

1. Lindsey did not deny any part of the band's story. That's very telling.

2. Lindsey said that him being fired "was not something that was really my doing or my choice." Notice the tell there. He added "really" meaning that he knows that he had a part in being fired from the band. If he believed that he was an innocent bystander simply being fired for no reason then he would have said that in unequivocal terms. However, he did not do that.

Rather, he did not deny any part of the band's story. Until he does that, I find it very difficult to find any credibility in the theories floating around this forum.

[SteveMacD]

i would assume that Rick's source has Lindsey's side. is that what you mean?

now remember we also have Brett's side and he was there for some of the events, as photos and videos show.

Yes.

And, I’d be really curious about what Brett had to say about it beyond leaving the Mac gig to stay with Lindsey. That could have been out of loyalty, but it could also be that he enjoys touring with Lindsey more or would rather play new songs.

[sodascouts]

now remember we also have Brett's side and he was there for some of the events, as photos and videos show.

Oh! I hadn't head Brett's story yet, just Frederico Pol's. What did he say?

[saniette]

Why does it bother you all so much that I'm stating what every media outlet has reported for the last month? If it makes you feel better to cling to your conspiracy theory, then so be it.

Because you're relying on unnamed sources that back your preconceptions about all this. And you dismiss named sources and any other evidence, like Lindsey's video at MusicCares, that challenges your predetermined opinion.

Every media source you cite is just repeating the band's narrative - these aren't independently corroborated sources. They're all echoing the same band interviews, and the body language is pretty clear in the CBS interview. As well as Stevie's "I'm the boss" Freudian slip.

Why would they fire Lindsey over a touring conflict? Why wouldn't they agree to mutually part ways as in 1987? That would mean Lindsey refused to budge from the arbitrary November 2019 date, which is completely implausible. That's the crucial piece that's missing here - not Lindsey's request, but that he refused to back down when/if they threatened to fire him.

I think they fired Lindsey because they didn't want to give him a chance to back down from his request to incorporate solo dates on the 2018 tour. They knew he probably would to keep peace in the band. This isn't really about touring dates at all - I think Stevie wanted Mike Campbell in the band, and wasn't going to take "No" for an answer as happened with Sheryl Crow. It's awfully suspicious how quickly Campbell was brought in after MusiCares.

I'd rather believe the most plausible explanation, rather than blindly follow whatever the band says. And I think the band is beginning to realize that firing Lindsey is a PR disaster, with the flimsy reason they're offering. I think most bands would spin it as a mutual decision even if it wasn't, which is what the band did in 1987.

[Sugar Mouse]

Because you're relying on unnamed sources that back your preconceptions about all this. And you dismiss named sources and any other evidence, like Lindsey's video at MusicCares, that challenges your predetermined opinion.

Every media source you cite is just repeating the band's narrative - these aren't independently corroborated sources. They're all echoing the same band interviews, and the body language is pretty clear in the CBS interview. As well as Stevie's "I'm the boss" Freudian slip.

Why would they fire Lindsey over a touring conflict? Why wouldn't they agree to mutually part ways as in 1987? That would mean Lindsey refused to budge from the arbitrary November 2019 date, which is completely implausible. That's the crucial piece that's missing here - not Lindsey's request, but that he refused to back down when/if they threatened to fire him.

I think they fired Lindsey because they didn't want to give him a chance to back down from his request to incorporate solo dates on the 2018 tour. They knew he probably would to keep peace in the band. This isn't really about touring dates at all - I think Stevie wanted Mike Campbell in the band, and wasn't going to take "No" for an answer as happened with Sheryl Crow. It's awfully suspicious how quickly Campbell was brought in after MusiCares.

I'd rather believe the most plausible explanation, rather than blindly follow whatever the band says. And I think the band is beginning to realize that firing Lindsey is a PR disaster, with the flimsy reason they're offering. I think most bands would spin it as a mutual decision even if it wasn't, which is what the band did in 1987.

So you'd rather believe a theory that not one online article supports? Not one ...

I can't say who my two sources are but I can say that Andy Greene (Rolling Stone senior reporter) has repeatedly said that the band told him that Lindsey wouldn't tour until November 2019. There's a source for you. I'm really not sure why you all are in such denial about this. The band says this is true. Lindsey has not denied this. No one in Lindsey management team has denied it. Rick's Facebook post doesn't even deny that possibility. All Rick said was that Lindsey and the band were negotiating tour dates. Rick doesn't know the details of those negotiations. Until Lindsey denies some part of the band's story, I'll stick with what every media outlet is reporting.

[dreamsunwind]

Because you're relying on unnamed sources that back your preconceptions about all this. And you dismiss named sources and any other evidence, like Lindsey's video at MusicCares, that challenges your predetermined opinion.

Every media source you cite is just repeating the band's narrative - these aren't independently corroborated sources. They're all echoing the same band interviews, and the body language is pretty clear in the CBS interview. As well as Stevie's "I'm the boss" Freudian slip.

Why would they fire Lindsey over a touring conflict? Why wouldn't they agree to mutually part ways as in 1987? That would mean Lindsey refused to budge from the arbitrary November 2019 date, which is completely implausible. That's the crucial piece that's missing here - not Lindsey's request, but that he refused to back down when/if they threatened to fire him.

I think they fired Lindsey because they didn't want to give him a chance to back down from his request to incorporate solo dates on the 2018 tour. They knew he probably would to keep peace in the band. This isn't really about touring dates at all - I think Stevie wanted Mike Campbell in the band, and wasn't going to take "No" for an answer as happened with Sheryl Crow. It's awfully suspicious how quickly Campbell was brought in after MusiCares.

I'd rather believe the most plausible explanation, rather than blindly follow whatever the band says. And I think the band is beginning to realize that firing Lindsey is a PR disaster, with the flimsy reason they're offering. I think most bands would spin it as a mutual decision even if it wasn't, which is what the band did in 1987.

DING DING DING.
I totally agree.

[saniette]

Let's dissect Lindsey's statement that you posted above.

1. Lindsey did not deny any part of the band's story. That's very telling.

2. Lindsey said that him being fired "was not something that was really my doing or my choice." Notice the tell there. He added "really" meaning that he knows that he had a part in being fired from the band. If he believed that he was an innocent bystander simply being fired for no reason then he would have said that in unequivocal terms. However, he did not do that.

Rather, he did not deny any part of the band's story. Until he does that, I find it very difficult to find any credibility in the theories floating around this forum.

Why don't you bring the same microscope to the band's statement? No one but Stevie said "November", and I'm pretty sure she just pulled that date out of thin air. She doesn't have the greatest track record on accuracy.

Lindsey's "statement" was hardly that. It was a brief comment on the elephant in the room at a political fundraiser. Hardly the time and place to get into a long discussion of what actually happened.

And Lindsey is denying their story - factions in the band lost their perspective, which implies that they used an ostensible reason, like touring schedule conflicts, to oust him from the band.

Just because Lindsey doesn't explicitly deny their story doesn't mean it's true. He doesn't tend to issue statements.

[SteveMacD]

It's awfully suspicious how quickly Campbell was brought in after MusiCares.

Not really, though. Assuming there was a blowout and an ultimatum right after MusiCares, Mike Campbell would have easily been the first choice, especially given Stevie’s speech. Ask the woman who was literally just waxing poetic about Tom Petty who the band could get to play guitar that’s available, and it’s harder to see how Mike Campbell wouldn’t have been the first choice.

[dreamsunwind]

So you'd rather believe a theory that not one online article supports? Not one ...

I can't say who my two sources are but I can say that Andy Greene (Rolling Stone senior reporter) has repeatedly said that the band told him that Lindsey wouldn't tour until November 2019. There's a source for you. I'm really not sure why you all are in such denial about this. The band says this is true. Lindsey has not denied this. No one in Lindsey management team has denied it. Rick's Facebook post doesn't even deny that possibility. All Rick said was that Lindsey and the band were negotiating tour dates. Rick doesn't know the details of those negotiations. Until Lindsey denies some part of the band's story, I'll stick with what every media outlet is reporting.

You don't know a thing about Lindsey if you think he's gonna make any statement confirming or denying the band's story. I've said this a billion times but he basically never makes press statements on anything. When he starts doing his own promo for whatever he does next then he will probably address it but to just put out a statement? Nope. Stevie Nicks spent the entire late 1980s to mid 1990s completely dragging his name through the mud with the most melodramatic statements about their relationship and all you ever saw was "reps for Buckingham declined to comment".

[dreamsunwind]

Why don't you bring the same microscope to the band's statement? No one but Stevie said "November", and I'm pretty sure she just pulled that date out of thin air. She doesn't have the greatest track record on accuracy.

Lindsey's "statement" was hardly that. It was a brief comment on the elephant in the room at a political fundraiser. Hardly the time and place to get into a long discussion of what actually happened.

And Lindsey is denying their story - factions in the band lost their perspective, which implies that they used an ostensible reason, like touring schedule conflicts, to oust him from the band.

Just because Lindsey doesn't explicitly deny their story doesn't mean it's true. He doesn't tend to issue statements.

Exactly. And there's also his wife's repeated posts on her social media where she all but explicitly calls the band a bunch of shady dirty liars.

[dreamsunwind]

Oh! I hadn't head Brett's story yet, just Frederico Pol's. What did he say?

I don't know about Brett but Federico Pol also commented that it isn't true Lindsey wanted them to delay the tour, he said Lindsey was looking forward to it and had even shared the rehearsal dates with him.

[saniette]

So you'd rather believe a theory that not one online article supports? Not one ...

I can't say who my two sources are but I can say that Andy Greene (Rolling Stone senior reporter) has repeatedly said that the band told him that Lindsey wouldn't tour until November 2019. There's a source for you. I'm really not sure why you all are in such denial about this. The band says this is true. Lindsey has not denied this. No one in Lindsey management team has denied it. Rick's Facebook post doesn't even deny that possibility. All Rick said was that Lindsey and the band were negotiating tour dates. Rick doesn't know the details of those negotiations. Until Lindsey denies some part of the band's story, I'll stick with what every media outlet is reporting.

Yes, I would, because the band's statement doesn't add up. You're saying we have to believe what the band says no matter how implausible it is? I don't personally believe the November 2019 date, but even conceding it's true, that would mean the band had to fire Lindsey because he wouldn't back down. That's what seems improbable to me.

All sources have to be critically evaluated. Just because 20 articles are all based on the same band interview doesn't prove anything. That's still just one side of the story.

And the band's narrative doesn't pass the smell test. The interviewers on the Sirius XM interview all commented on the band's uncomfortable body language. I think they can read between the lines, that something's not adding up with the band's story.

You can choose to believe what you want, but you seem intent on revisiting this subject continually to try to convert others here. I think everyone should rely on their own judgment, as we obviously haven't gotten the whole story and maybe never will. All we have is speculation and interpretation at this point.

[lovethemac1]

Yes, I would, because the band's statement doesn't add up. You're saying we have to believe what the band says no matter how implausible it is? I don't personally believe the November 2019 date, but even conceding it's true, that would mean the band had to fire Lindsey because he wouldn't back down. That's what seems improbable to me.

All sources have to be critically evaluated. Just because 20 articles are all based on the same band interview doesn't prove anything. That's still just one side of the story.

And the band's narrative doesn't pass the smell test. The interviewers on the Sirius XM interview all commented on the band's uncomfortable body language. I think they can read between the lines, that something's not adding up with the band's story.

You can choose to believe what you want, but you seem intent on revisiting this subject continually to try to convert others here. I think everyone should rely on their own judgment, as we obviously haven't gotten the whole story and maybe never will. All we have is speculation and interpretation at this point.

Beautifully written, I agree 100%.

[saniette]

Not really, though. Assuming there was a blowout and an ultimatum right after MusiCares, Mike Campbell would have easily been the first choice, especially given Stevie’s speech. Ask the woman who was literally just waxing poetic about Tom Petty who the band could get to play guitar that’s available, and it’s harder to see how Mike Campbell wouldn’t have been the first choice.

And I agree Campbell always would have been the first choice. I just question the chronology is all. Considering the Sheryl Crow precedent and that Tom Petty recently died, I just have a hard time thinking Stevie never brought up the possibility of bringing Campbell into the band before MusiCares. And of course Lindsey would have balked, as he did with Sheryl Crow. No way would Lindsey have agreed to a second lead guitarist in the band. It just sounds like something Stevie would do, and it makes more sense to me as the source of the irreparable blowup than touring conflicts. But it's all speculation of course.

[HomerMcvie]

[QUOTE=secondhandchain;1229652]

I’ve been thinking Mick for a bit. Karen’s a possibility. But no way in hell is it Stevie unless someone else is just typing her words. Pretty sure she can barely function with a push button land line.

Your last line is PURE GOLD! :woohoo:

[lovethemac1]

[QUOTE=lovethemac1;1229663]

He awaits, to be summoned...just like the Kraken...:eek:

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/singersongwriter-mick-fleetwood-is-photographed-for-playboy-magazine-picture-id612579102

Hahaha!! So creepy!

[BombaySapphire3]

[QUOTE=Dr.Brown;1229677]

Hahaha!! So creepy!

Yeah it is difficult to determine who has become more demented and detached from reality in their dotage .The hag or the whore?:shrug:

[Angel75]

You're saying we have to believe what the band says no matter how implausible it is?

All sources have to be critically evaluated. Just because 20 articles are all based on the same band interview doesn't prove anything. That's still just one side of the story.

And the band's narrative doesn't pass the smell test. The interviewers on the Sirius XM interview all commented on the band's uncomfortable body language. I think they can read between the lines, that something's not adding up with the band's story.

You can choose to believe what you want, but you seem intent on revisiting this subject continually to try to convert others here. I think everyone should rely on their own judgment, as we obviously haven't gotten the whole story and maybe never will. All we have is speculation and interpretation at this point.

Sugar Mouse - what I do not understand is why you insist on wanting to believe 'as gospel' what the band says, or your sources say or that was written by a media outlet. Has it not once occurred to you that people LIE and don't tell the truth as the truth is possibly a little shocking?!
Lindsey's friends, family and non FM bandmates have in their own way said this is all lies and he did not want to wait until Nov2019 to tour. He did want to tour both FM and solo together, he and others confirm this. Why did FM not mention this in their media reports if they were telling the truth?

[JohnL]

I can't believe the moderators allow you to continue to post such awful vitriole. Does anyone know how to contact the moderators?

Hallelujah!! I dont know if he is paying them or what. Be careful because soon you will be booted for a few days for standing up to him. He is a troll...just ignore the ignorance.

[MoonSister75]

just ignore the ignorance.

Perfect! :woohoo: The best way to deal with any frustrations with this board :nod:

[Sugar Mouse]

Sugar Mouse - what I do not understand is why you insist on wanting to believe 'as gospel' what the band says, or your sources say or that was written by a media outlet. Has it not once occurred to you that people LIE and don't tell the truth as the truth is possibly a little shocking?!
Lindsey's friends, family and non FM bandmates have in their own way said this is all lies and he did not want to wait until Nov2019 to tour. He did want to tour both FM and solo together, he and others confirm this. Why did FM not mention this in their media reports if they were telling the truth?

Other than a Facebook post from Rick Turner, I've seen nothing from Lindsey nor his friends/family to suggest that the band's story is untrue.

Please post any information from Lindsey or his friends/family and I'd be happy to look at it. Folks keep saying that Lindsey's wife has said this or that but ZERO media outlets have reported anything from Lindsey's wife.

I'm open to the band's story being untrue but I believe in actual evidence rather than conjecture, as of yet, there is no evidence that the band's story is untrue.

[sodascouts]

Yes, I would, because the band's statement doesn't add up. You're saying we have to believe what the band says no matter how implausible it is? I don't personally believe the November 2019 date, but even conceding it's true, that would mean the band had to fire Lindsey because he wouldn't back down. That's what seems improbable to me.

All sources have to be critically evaluated. Just because 20 articles are all based on the same band interview doesn't prove anything. That's still just one side of the story.

And the band's narrative doesn't pass the smell test. The interviewers on the Sirius XM interview all commented on the band's uncomfortable body language. I think they can read between the lines, that something's not adding up with the band's story.

You can choose to believe what you want, but you seem intent on revisiting this subject continually to try to convert others here. I think everyone should rely on their own judgment, as we obviously haven't gotten the whole story and maybe never will. All we have is speculation and interpretation at this point.

Well-said.

I have noticed a sad trend of the lack of critical evaluation of information in my students. Many just take what they're told at face value, no matter how absurd. Some can't even recognize satire (we've seen that on this board).

I do not know how old Sugar Mouse is, but I see how he/she keeps talking about "media outlets" without seeming to understand the way internet media outlets work - that they simply are repeating the same band interview. I think Sugar Mouse is confused and thinks there has been multiple interviews with a great deal of fact-checking and investigative reporting.

While all of these "Sugar Mouse must be Mick" posts are amusing, I think it's simply that he/she is young, naive, ignorant of the way internet news works, and - here's the unfortunate part - not reading carefully enough to understand his/her mistake, thus continuing to repeat it.

[Sugar Mouse]

Well-said.

I have noticed a sad trend of the lack of critical evaluation of information in my students. Many just take what they're told at face value, no matter how absurd. Some can't even recognize satire (we've seen that on this board).

I do not know how old Sugar Mouse is, but I see how he/she keeps talking about "media outlets" without seeming to understand the way internet media outlets work - that they simply are repeating the same band interview. I think Sugar Mouse is confused and thinks there has been multiple interviews with a great deal of fact-checking and investigative reporting.

While all of these "Sugar Mouse must be Mick" posts are amusing, I think it's simply that he/she is young, naive, ignorant of the way internet news works, and - here's the unfortunate part - not reading carefully enough to understand his/her mistake, thus continuing to repeat it.

Actually ... not. I've been a Mac fan for over 40 years and have decades of experience teaching about communication at the highest educational levels.

I know all about critical analysis and that's what is so shocking about this forum. There is no critical analysis just angry vitriol aimed at the remaining band members without any evidence to support claims made.

I've repeatedly asked for evidence and all I get from forum forum members is "you can't trust the media" or "I trust my gut feelings" which is frankly garbage critical analysis.

I keep asking to see the statements from Lindsey or Lindsey's friends/associates or Lindsey's family members and no one can find anything except a Facebook thread from Rick Turner saying he heard certain things.

Perhaps you and your buddies on this forum might want to take some classes on critical analysis and use those skills before deciding to vindicate Mr. Buckingham and vilify the remaining band members.

[Sugar Mouse]

Perfect! :woohoo: The best way to deal with any frustrations with this board :nod:

Apparently you are correct. The level of ignorance and angry conspiracy theories on this forum is astounding.

[Sugar Mouse]

Sugar Mouse - what I do not understand is why you insist on wanting to believe 'as gospel' what the band says, or your sources say or that was written by a media outlet. Has it not once occurred to you that people LIE and don't tell the truth as the truth is possibly a little shocking?!
Lindsey's friends, family and non FM bandmates have in their own way said this is all lies and he did not want to wait until Nov2019 to tour. He did want to tour both FM and solo together, he and others confirm this. Why did FM not mention this in their media reports if they were telling the truth?

I have seen nothing from Lindsey's famly/friends/non Mac bandmates other than the Rick Turner Facebook posts saying that he heard the band/Lindsey were negotiating his solo dates alongside the Mac tour.

The following is what appears most likely to have happened (based on the accounts of all who have spoken thus far):

1. Fleetwood Mac was planning this tour for the last 1-2 years with all band members having agreed to the tour

2. Lindsey changed his mind and decided that he also wanted to have a solo tour in parallel with the Mac tour.

3. The band said "no solo tour" and the band/Lindsey spent a while negotiating over this issue as noted in Rick Turner's Facebook posts.

4. Lindsey wouldn't back down and mentioned delaying the Mac tour until after his solo tour.

5. The band fired him.

[saniette]

Actually ... not. I've been a Mac fan for over 40 years and have decades of experience teaching about communication at the highest educational levels.

I know all about critical analysis and that's what is so shocking about this forum. There is no critical analysis just angry vitriol aimed at the remaining band members without any evidence to support claims made.

I've repeatedly asked for evidence and all I get from forum forum members is "you can't trust the media" or "I trust my gut feelings" which is frankly garbage critical analysis.

I keep asking to see the statements from Lindsey or Lindsey's friends/associates or Lindsey's family members and no one can find anything except a Facebook thread from Rick Turner saying he heard certain things.

Perhaps you and your buddies on this forum might want to take some classes on critical analysis and use those skills before deciding to vindicate Mr. Buckingham and vilify the remaining band members.

What critical analysis? You're just accepting the band's narrative without questioning it at all. Just because Lindsey hasn't denied it yet, doesn't make their story true. It's only been a couple months, and there may be legal reasons why Lindsey and his family can't speak out.

So if you just believe "media outlets," if Lindsey denies it, you'll accept his story then when a bunch of outlets report on it? Or is that when your critical analysis comes into play? Let's face it, you'll find a reason to discount it no matter what happens.

But if you're just going to believe media stories as they come out, then I guess your opinion will keep changing? The story is still evolving, and so far the band has only presented their side. And there are issues with their narrative, if you choose to look closer.

I'm not trying to vindicate Lindsey, but firing the guy is an extreme move. And their ostensible reason isn't making sense. There has to be more to the story even if you accept the band's narrative. So no matter what, they're not telling the whole truth.

And not everyone disputing the band's narrative is engaging in angry vitriol. So you're painting with a pretty broad brush, in an effort to discount opinions you don't agree with. Not to mention your obvious bias in the band's favor from the get go with all of this.

It is possible the negative opinion of the band expressed here is correct. Just because you have a positive opinion of the new lineup doesn't mean the band didn't screw Lindsey in getting the new lineup. It's just funny how the guy Stevie wanted in the band is in there now, and the guy she no longer wanted to work with is out. Funny how all that worked out for her.

[JohnL]

Apparently you are correct. The level of ignorance and angry conspiracy theories on this forum is astounding.

You could have God descend from the clouds and tell these people that Stevie is not the cause of Lindsey's firing and they still wouldn't believe it. She is the Anti-Christ and Mick is her messenger. Don't you know that by now?

Seriously...I would give up the fight. They thrive on it. I do love the hypocrisy of the statement about Bekka Bramlett or however you spell her name. Sure...bring on new members as long as they are replacing Stevie.

And for all the statement claiming that Lindsey's wife and family are spewing the truth. Well, lets see. How about we get Chris Nicks to chime in here. Would that be taken as gospel? Ridiculous!! They know what Lindsey has told them. He has never taken responsibility for any of the trouble he has caused in the band. He wants his way and he wants it now or he will threaten to not participate.

And for all of those folks PO'd that Stevie didn't participate in the recording and it became Buckingham/McVie...well give this some thought. They have agreed since 1981 that they go back and forth between band and solo efforts. Now all of the sudden she is supposed to give that up and participate in something just because he says so. Take a hike control freak!!

[TrueFaith77]

Now, is there a way to filter out comments with ignored people's posts embedded? :]

Ignoring people is good for the blood pressure.

[missundercover]

And for all of those folks PO'd that Stevie didn't participate in the recording and it became Buckingham/McVie...well give this some thought. They have agreed since 1981 that they go back and forth between band and solo efforts. Now all of the sudden she is supposed to give that up and participate in something just because he says so.

I must agree, that I don't see the connection with the current situation. As much as I want a new album or would have wanted a record by the Rumors 5 > I have accepted that the dynamic between Stevie and Lindsey prevents it. Say what you want but artists and art are deeply personal and obviously because of old hurt feelings it just doesn't work - art is not about compromise.
Maybe it is not about that and Stevie really doesn't create that much anymore, either reason: I can accept and live with.

Touring is a different thing and the scheduling reasoning is hard to accept because all in all: it seems to be a minor thing which could have been worked out if one would have wanted.
This is why I think there might be other things we don't know about, but whatever. The result is the same and Fleetwood Mac doesn't owe us anything. We may love them but they don't have to love as back. I can enjoy the music nonetheless. With Lindsey missing not in the same way, but I can enjoy it.

[saniette]

You could have God descend from the clouds and tell these people that Stevie is not the cause of Lindsey's firing and they still wouldn't believe it. She is the Anti-Christ and Mick is her messenger. Don't you know that by now?

Seriously...I would give up the fight. They thrive on it. I do love the hypocrisy of the statement about Bekka Bramlett or however you spell her name. Sure...bring on new members as long as they are replacing Stevie.

And for all the statement claiming that Lindsey's wife and family are spewing the truth. Well, lets see. How about we get Chris Nicks to chime in here. Would that be taken as gospel? Ridiculous!! They know what Lindsey has told them. He has never taken responsibility for any of the trouble he has caused in the band. He wants his way and he wants it now or he will threaten to not participate.

And for all of those folks PO'd that Stevie didn't participate in the recording and it became Buckingham/McVie...well give this some thought. They have agreed since 1981 that they go back and forth between band and solo efforts. Now all of the sudden she is supposed to give that up and participate in something just because he says so. Take a hike control freak!!

Stevie was supposed to participate in what became the BuckVie album, because everyone else in the band is on it! Not just because Lindsey said so, like he holds that kind of sway. And why couldn't that be called a Fleetwood Mac record anyway? Stevie had nothing to do with that either right? The only member who gets to decide what is and is not Fleetwood Mac is her apparently.

You take umbrage at Stevie being made the villain of the piece, but it's OK for Lindsey to be the villain? Explain to be how that's the superior, logical viewpoint? Just because you don't like Lindsey?

The hypocrisy is on all Stevie's side sorry. She should have been fired already based on the rules they're applying to Lindsey. But money talks right? So that justifies the unfairness of the situation?

[Sugar Mouse]

Stevie was supposed to participate in what became the BuckVie album, because everyone else in the band is on it! Not just because Lindsey said so, like he holds that kind of sway. And why couldn't that be called a Fleetwood Mac record anyway? Stevie had nothing to do with that either right? The only member who gets to decide what is and is not Fleetwood Mac is her apparently.

You take umbrage at Stevie being made the villain of the piece, but it's OK for Lindsey to be the villain? Explain to be how that's the superior, logical viewpoint? Just because you don't like Lindsey?

The hypocrisy is on all Stevie's side sorry. She should have been fired already based on the rules they're applying to Lindsey. But money talks right? So that justifies the unfairness of the situation?

Let's be clear about Buckingham/McVie ... Stevie never promised to participate in that project. Lindsey kept pushing her to participate and she kept saying "no". He then go Mick and John to participate and kept pushing Stevie but she kept saying "no". In recent years, Stevie has had no interest in another Mac studio album primarily because of the way Lindsey records albums which tends to drag on for months and months and is a very unpleasant experience for most involved. That's very different then the upcoming tour where Lindsey agreed to participate and then decided that he wanted to re-work the tour schedule to accommodate his solo tour. In Stevie's case, she never agreed to something and then changed the plan. In Lindsey's case, he agreed to something and then wanted to change things around.

[sue]

Stevie was supposed to participate in what became the BuckVie album, because everyone else in the band is on it! Not just because Lindsey said so, like he holds that kind of sway. And why couldn't that be called a Fleetwood Mac record anyway? Stevie had nothing to do with that either right? The only member who gets to decide what is and is not Fleetwood Mac is her apparently.

You take umbrage at Stevie being made the villain of the piece, but it's OK for Lindsey to be the villain? Explain to be how that's the superior, logical viewpoint? Just because you don't like Lindsey?

The hypocrisy is on all Stevie's side sorry. She should have been fired already based on the rules they're applying to Lindsey. But money talks right? So that justifies the unfairness of the situation?


As a sitter on the fence in the whole of this, I’m not a Lindsey supporter neither am I for Stevie....I AM A FM FAN
However I can say there is hypocrisy on both sides, loads on Stevie’s side I agree and loads on Lindsey’s side.
Both sides should take a bow, we middle of the road types applaud you both.
Tho it can be tedious.!!!

Bytheway......has Sugar Mouse racked up some kind of record for most posts in the shortest time.
136 and counting since May 18th !!!!

[elle]

As a sitter on the fence in the whole of this, I’m not a Lindsey supporter neither am I for Stevie....I AM A FM FAN
However I can say there is hypocrisy on both sides, loads on Stevie’s side I agree and loads on Lindsey’s side.
Both sides should take a bow, we middle of the road types applaud you both.
Tho it can be tedious.

can you clarify on this - where is hypocrisy on Lindsey's side in this firing from FM issue?

obviously as a primarily LB fan, i can be biased and would like to make sure that is the case as little as possible. thanks so much!

[Storms123]

Stevie actually said on the red carpet for “School of Rock” on broadway there would be a new FM album, that was December 2015. One would assume the reference there is Buck vie since Christine and Lindsey were laying her tracks down before they hit the road for OWTS

[saniette]

Let's be clear about Buckingham/McVie ... Stevie never promised to participate in that project. Lindsey kept pushing her to participate and she kept saying "no". He then go Mick and John to participate and kept pushing Stevie but she kept saying "no". In recent years, Stevie has had no interest in another Mac studio album primarily because of the way Lindsey records albums which tends to drag on for months and months and is a very unpleasant experience for most involved. That's very different then the upcoming tour where Lindsey agreed to participate and then decided that he wanted to re-work the tour schedule to accommodate his solo tour. In Stevie's case, she never agreed to something and then changed the plan. In Lindsey's case, he agreed to something and then wanted to change things around.

That's a bit of a logical fallacy though. So Lindsey could have initially refused to tour altogether, and he wouldn't have been fired? No, they definitely would have fired him for that.

Touring is more important to this band than recording, I get it. And I get Stevie never wanted to record with Lindsey again. But why does she get to refuse to do things, and no else in the band does?

All of the above about BuckVie is fine, but it's pretty obvious the one member who wasn't on the record prevented them from calling it a Fleetwood Mac record. Why wasn't it called a Fleetwood Mac record? 4 of 5 members are on it, and majority rules right?

There's a lot of contortions needed to justify Stevie's past refusals and Lindsey's firing at the same time. She held back the band from touring before too, but an outright refusal is okay? Just not trying to change plans that are already made? Makes no sense.

[elle]

Stevie actually said on the red carpet for “School of Rock” on broadway there would be a new FM album, that was December 2015. One would assume the reference there is Buck vie since Christine and Lindsey were laying her tracks down before they hit the road for OWTS

yes she said they had tons of tracks already and that she'll join FM for the new album.

we know they kept giving her many chances, and the last one was somewhere towards the end of 2016, before they went to the studio to wrap up all their tracks. that's when Stevie said her definitive and last no, and went to the media outlets with interviews about how she doesn't see why they would release what they have so far, that there's no point, nobody buys music anymore, especially not from old bands, or something to that effect. there were discussion on these boards at the time that with her statements she's basically daring them [not to] release what they have without her.

[dreamsunwind]

I have seen nothing from Lindsey's famly/friends/non Mac bandmates other than the Rick Turner Facebook posts saying that he heard the band/Lindsey were negotiating his solo dates alongside the Mac tour.

Go on Instagram.com and look up Kristen Buckingham (she has two accounts, one personal and one of designs) and read every single one of her recent posts. She all but holds a neon sign saying that the band isn't telling the whole story. And there's also the BM band member that ALSO said Lindsey wasn't trying to delay anything, he was looking forward to the tour and had shared the rehearsal dates with him.

[dreamsunwind]

Let's be clear about Buckingham/McVie ... Stevie never promised to participate in that project. Lindsey kept pushing her to participate and she kept saying "no". He then go Mick and John to participate and kept pushing Stevie but she kept saying "no". In recent years, Stevie has had no interest in another Mac studio album primarily because of the way Lindsey records albums which tends to drag on for months and months and is a very unpleasant experience for most involved. That's very different then the upcoming tour where Lindsey agreed to participate and then decided that he wanted to re-work the tour schedule to accommodate his solo tour. In Stevie's case, she never agreed to something and then changed the plan. In Lindsey's case, he agreed to something and then wanted to change things around.

Christine didn't seem to mind at all!

[sodascouts]

Actually ... not. I've been a Mac fan for over 40 years and have decades of experience teaching about communication at the highest educational levels.

If this is true, and you do understand how media outlets on the internet work, then I can only assume you are being willfully intellectually dishonest when you offer their number as support for your argument.

Your communication classes apparently do not include ethics, I take it.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. It turns out you did not deserve it.

[SteveMacD]

Christine didn't seem to mind at all!

To be fair, “most involved”…

[HomerMcvie]

If this is true, and you do understand how media outlets on the internet work, then I can only assume you are being willfully intellectually dishonest when you offer their number as support for your argument.

Your communication classes apparently do not include ethics, I take it.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. It turns out you did not deserve it.

While we have often butted heads over the years, I would at this moment like to cheer you on! Well stated!:woohoo:

[Sugar Mouse]

If this is true, and you do understand how media outlets on the internet work, then I can only assume you are being willfully intellectually dishonest when you offer their number as support for your argument.

Your communication classes apparently do not include ethics, I take it.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. It turns out you did not deserve it.

Why do you feel the need to attack someone's character when they disagree with you? That's usually an indication of insecurity and lazy thinking. What exactly have I said that shows poor "ethics" in your mind? You may disagree with my assessment, but it's based on actual facts unlike most of what's posted on this forum. If you all have actual facts to support your opinions (I still haven't seen these supposed posts by Lindsey's wife), I'd be happy to see them.

[Dr.Brown]

Why do you feel the need to attack someone's character when they disagree with you? That's usually an indication of insecurity and lazy thinking. What exactly have I said that shows poor "ethics" in your mind? You may disagree with my assessment, but it's based on actual facts unlike most of what's posted on this forum. If you all have actual facts to support your opinions (I still haven't seen these supposed posts by Lindsey's wife), I'd be happy to see them.

Sugar Mouse - Here's basically what you've been repeating ad nauseum: "My facts are true and yours are false".

You have given us nothing at all to substantiate your claim and you have categorically rejected what others have to offer.

This is why you are regarded as nothing more than a troll by so many here.

[elle]

To be fair, “most involved”…

to be fair, there were 4 people involved in those most recent recording sessions - Christine, Mick, John and Buck. all of them are on record (and in videos) as enjoyed the sessions. that looks more like none, not "most" to me.

then again, Stevie is also on record as enjoying most recent recording sessions she had with Lindsey at his house, for the EP.

[saniette]

Why do you feel the need to attack someone's character when they disagree with you? That's usually an indication of insecurity and lazy thinking. What exactly have I said that shows poor "ethics" in your mind? You may disagree with my assessment, but it's based on actual facts unlike most of what's posted on this forum. If you all have actual facts to support your opinions (I still haven't seen these supposed posts by Lindsey's wife), I'd be happy to see them.

Except there aren't any "actual facts", just what the band says happened. And only Mick and Stevie are talking about the firing - that's 2 people. The media reports are just reporting what the band SAYS happened, not what actually happened. No one knows that for sure, so not sure what facts you have. There really only is interpretation available to us at this point. And we all know by now your interpretation is more valid than everybody else's.

You just keep reposting the same thing over and over.

[Sugar Mouse]

Sugar Mouse - Here's basically what you've been repeating ad nauseum: "My facts are true and yours are false".

You have given us nothing at all to substantiate your claim and you have categorically rejected what others have to offer.

This is why you are regarded as nothing more than a troll by so many here.

Why is someone who disagrees with you a troll? You're the one who is choosing to disbelieve all the media outlet's reporting (that Lindsey wanted to delay the tour until next year which led to his firing) and instead believe your "gut feeling". Your "evidence" is Rick Turner's facebook posts that he heard Lindsey was negotiating the timine of his solo tour with the Mac tour (which doesn't contradict the band's story) and Lindsey's wife supposed denials of the band's story (which I haven't seen and no one can find online). Again, I'm not saying that my facts are true. What I'm saying is that the current known evidence supports the band's story.

[dreamsunwind]

Sugar Mouse - Here's basically what you've been repeating ad nauseum: "My facts are true and yours are false".

You have given us nothing at all to substantiate your claim and you have categorically rejected what others have to offer.

This is why you are regarded as nothing more than a troll by so many here.

Ikr lol. Someone who recently joined saying they're a Neil Finn and Mac fan which prompted them to join and went from posting mostly about Neil to saying that they just talked to someone in the band "inner circle", they talked to someone who is as close to Lindsey as possible without being his wife and kid, they talked to people high up in his management and "production team" lol.
And then just says "I can't say who my sources are", insuiniates his claims are more reliable than RICK TURNER, ignores other facts and claims that people have presented and continues to insist that they're right. ANYONE can log into a website and do that. However there are OTHER known, reliable people who have been actively involved in the FM/SN "group" who also claim specified sources that are MUCH more reliable and realistic.

[elle]

Except there aren't any "actual facts", just what the band says happened. And only Mick and Stevie are talking about the firing - that's 2 people. The media reports are just reporting what the band SAYS happened, not what actually happened. No one knows that for sure, so not sure what facts you have. There really only is interpretation available to us at this point. And we all know by now your interpretation is more valid than everybody else's.

You just keep reposting the same thing over and over.

and the actual interviewer's interpretation (Andy Greene of Rolling Stone) is available for everyone to listen. he clearly doesn't believe the band and is not shy in stating so: https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/rollingstonemusicnow?selected=PPY8437307399

there is a reason why all the band defenders are not bringing up this interview or the CBS video.

PS welcome to the board saniette!! :wavey:

[sodascouts]

Why is someone who disagrees with you a troll? You're the one who is choosing to disbelieve all the media outlet's reporting (that Lindsey wanted to delay the tour until next year which led to his firing) and instead believe your "gut feeling". Your "evidence" is Rick Turner's facebook posts that he heard Lindsey was negotiating the timine of his solo tour with the Mac tour (which doesn't contradict the band's story) and Lindsey's wife supposed denials of the band's story (which I haven't seen and no one can find online). Again, I'm not saying that my facts are true. What I'm saying is that the current known evidence supports the band's story.

There goes your intellectually dishonest emphasis on the number of media outlets again...

[Sugar Mouse]

Ikr lol. Someone who recently joined saying they're a Neil Finn and Mac fan which prompted them to join and went from posting mostly about Neil to saying that they just talked to someone in the band "inner circle", they talked to someone who is as close to Lindsey as possible without being his wife and kid, they talked to people high up in his management and "production team" lol.
And then just says "I can't say who my sources are", insuiniates his claims are more reliable than RICK TURNER, ignores other facts and claims that people have presented and continues to insist that they're right. ANYONE can log into a website and do that. However there are OTHER known, reliable people who have been actively involved in the FM/SN "group" who also claim specified sources that are MUCH more reliable and realistic.

Please post what these "reliable people" have said. Where are these quotes? I read through the Rick Turner stuff and there's nothing there. He basically said that he heard from someone that Lindsey was negotiating to do his solo tour alongside the Mac tour. He had no information on whether Lindsey was pushing to delay the Mac tour. If you have any actual evidence, please post it because you all keep referring to evidence that doesn't appear to exist.

[elle]

for internet illiterates or lazy ones who claim they cannot find this -

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-captioned data-instgrm-permalink="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhfs0bhAAWD/" data-instgrm-version="8" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:62.5% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAAAAMUExURczMzPf399fX1+bm5mzY9AMAAADiSURBVDjLvZXbEsMgCES5/P8/t9FuRVCRmU73JWlzosgSIIZURCjo/ad+EQJJB4Hv8BFt+IDpQoCx1wjOSBFhh2XssxEIYn3ulI/6MNReE07UIWJEv8UEOWDS88LY97kqyTliJKKtuYBbruAyVh5wOHiXmpi5we58Ek028czwyuQdLKPG1Bkb4NnM+VeAnfHqn1k4+GP T6uGQcvu2h2OVuIf/gWUFyy8OWEpdyZSa3aVCqpVoVvzZZ2VTnn2wU8qzVjDDetO90GSy9mVLqtgYSy231MxrY6I2gGqjrTY0L8fxCxfCBbhWrsYYAAAA AElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhfs0bhAAWD/" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_blank">Dear Washington Post, “Rocks biggest jerk or misunderstood genius?”🤔 Neither. Just a great man with a raw deal. But thanks for asking. #istandwithlindsey #teamlindsey @washingtonpost</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A post shared by <a href="https://www.instagram.com/kbchrush/" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px;" target="_blank"> Kristen Buckingham</a> (@kbchrush) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2018-04-13T03:20:21+00:00">Apr 12, 2018 at 8:20pm PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async defer src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-permalink="https://www.instagram.com/p/BiA__FSgxdY/" data-instgrm-version="8" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:50.0% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAAAAMUExURczMzPf399fX1+bm5mzY9AMAAADiSURBVDjLvZXbEsMgCES5/P8/t9FuRVCRmU73JWlzosgSIIZURCjo/ad+EQJJB4Hv8BFt+IDpQoCx1wjOSBFhh2XssxEIYn3ulI/6MNReE07UIWJEv8UEOWDS88LY97kqyTliJKKtuYBbruAyVh5wOHiXmpi5we58Ek028czwyuQdLKPG1Bkb4NnM+VeAnfHqn1k4+GP T6uGQcvu2h2OVuIf/gWUFyy8OWEpdyZSa3aVCqpVoVvzZZ2VTnn2wU8qzVjDDetO90GSy9mVLqtgYSy231MxrY6I2gGqjrTY0L8fxCxfCBbhWrsYYAAAA AElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div><p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;"><a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/BiA__FSgxdY/" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none;" target="_blank">A post shared by Kristen Buckingham (@kbchrush)</a> on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2018-04-26T01:42:46+00:00">Apr 25, 2018 at 6:42pm PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async defer src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-captioned data-instgrm-permalink="https://www.instagram.com/p/BiCogmMg0kU/" data-instgrm-version="8" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:50.0% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAAAAMUExURczMzPf399fX1+bm5mzY9AMAAADiSURBVDjLvZXbEsMgCES5/P8/t9FuRVCRmU73JWlzosgSIIZURCjo/ad+EQJJB4Hv8BFt+IDpQoCx1wjOSBFhh2XssxEIYn3ulI/6MNReE07UIWJEv8UEOWDS88LY97kqyTliJKKtuYBbruAyVh5wOHiXmpi5we58Ek028czwyuQdLKPG1Bkb4NnM+VeAnfHqn1k4+GP T6uGQcvu2h2OVuIf/gWUFyy8OWEpdyZSa3aVCqpVoVvzZZ2VTnn2wU8qzVjDDetO90GSy9mVLqtgYSy231MxrY6I2gGqjrTY0L8fxCxfCBbhWrsYYAAAA AElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/BiCogmMg0kU/" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_blank">I happened to see a tweet on Mick Fleetwood’s Twitter today that asked ...”what is the secret to Fleetwood Mac’s success?” This question struck a chord with me and compelled me to answer. But because I am getting old I don’t know how to use Twitter, I’ll just post my thoughts here...maybe someone out there can put it up on Twitter for me lol. So....“what is the secret of FM success Mick?” My opinion/answer is. ..”The heady chemistry and artistry of these 5 members together - John, Christine, Mick, Stevie, and Lindsey. That iconic sound by those 5 coupled with romantic tension and the worlds love of drama made a undeniable cocktail. Each personality and their creativity defined the band and it’s success.” Therefore honors such as Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Grammys, MusiCares Person of the Year to name a few were earned by this group. It is beyond a shame what has come to pass over recent days. I have lots of thoughts, feelings and facts that I will spare you from at this point. It is my husbands place to speak in his own words when the time is right for him. All I can say is thank you to all the loyal fans that supported FM over the years and for recognizing how stars only align once in a blue moon...and they did for this band. @mickfleetwoodofficial @stevienicks @christinemcvieofficial and you too John. #whoareyoupeople</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A post shared by <a href="https://www.instagram.com/kbchrush/" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px;" target="_blank"> Kristen Buckingham</a> (@kbchrush) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2018-04-26T16:56:06+00:00">Apr 26, 2018 at 9:56am PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async defer src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-captioned data-instgrm-permalink="https://www.instagram.com/p/BiptvCYgmqS/" data-instgrm-version="8" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:44.25925925925926% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAAAAMUExURczMzPf399fX1+bm5mzY9AMAAADiSURBVDjLvZXbEsMgCES5/P8/t9FuRVCRmU73JWlzosgSIIZURCjo/ad+EQJJB4Hv8BFt+IDpQoCx1wjOSBFhh2XssxEIYn3ulI/6MNReE07UIWJEv8UEOWDS88LY97kqyTliJKKtuYBbruAyVh5wOHiXmpi5we58Ek028czwyuQdLKPG1Bkb4NnM+VeAnfHqn1k4+GP T6uGQcvu2h2OVuIf/gWUFyy8OWEpdyZSa3aVCqpVoVvzZZ2VTnn2wU8qzVjDDetO90GSy9mVLqtgYSy231MxrY6I2gGqjrTY0L8fxCxfCBbhWrsYYAAAA AElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/BiptvCYgmqS/" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_blank">Listening to FM channel on Sirius XM made me and Leelee so proud of Lindsey. Even though his presence is minimized, his contribution was great. So undeniable no matter how hard they try. I mean, if I didn’t know better, I would think my husband was dead after spending a morning on this channel. I am very excited for my man to take his creativity to new places. #nevergoingback #whoareyoupeople #weareanewbandlol #lies #sorryneilitshardtolistentoyou</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A post shared by <a href="https://www.instagram.com/kbchrush/" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px;" target="_blank"> Kristen Buckingham</a> (@kbchrush) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2018-05-11T21:12:09+00:00">May 11, 2018 at 2:12pm PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async defer src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-captioned data-instgrm-permalink="https://www.instagram.com/p/BisLcYeAoBB/" data-instgrm-version="8" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:658px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:50% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAAAAMUExURczMzPf399fX1+bm5mzY9AMAAADiSURBVDjLvZXbEsMgCES5/P8/t9FuRVCRmU73JWlzosgSIIZURCjo/ad+EQJJB4Hv8BFt+IDpQoCx1wjOSBFhh2XssxEIYn3ulI/6MNReE07UIWJEv8UEOWDS88LY97kqyTliJKKtuYBbruAyVh5wOHiXmpi5we58Ek028czwyuQdLKPG1Bkb4NnM+VeAnfHqn1k4+GP T6uGQcvu2h2OVuIf/gWUFyy8OWEpdyZSa3aVCqpVoVvzZZ2VTnn2wU8qzVjDDetO90GSy9mVLqtgYSy231MxrY6I2gGqjrTY0L8fxCxfCBbhWrsYYAAAA AElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div> <p style=" margin:8px 0 0 0; padding:0 4px;"> <a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/BisLcYeAoBB/" style=" color:#000; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none; word-wrap:break-word;" target="_blank">Time for me to get back to work now. KB Chrush will be back to design as always. Thank you all. Xo</a></p> <p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;">A post shared by <a href="https://www.instagram.com/kbchrush/" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px;" target="_blank"> Kristen Buckingham</a> (@kbchrush) on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2018-05-12T20:10:13+00:00">May 12, 2018 at 1:10pm PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async defer src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

[dreamsunwind]

Why is someone who disagrees with you a troll? You're the one who is choosing to disbelieve all the media outlet's reporting (that Lindsey wanted to delay the tour until next year which led to his firing) and instead believe your "gut feeling". Your "evidence" is Rick Turner's facebook posts that he heard Lindsey was negotiating the timine of his solo tour with the Mac tour (which doesn't contradict the band's story) and Lindsey's wife supposed denials of the band's story (which I haven't seen and no one can find online). Again, I'm not saying that my facts are true. What I'm saying is that the current known evidence supports the band's story.

They're literally on her Instagram.
https://instagram.com/p/BiA__FSgxdY/ This was posted the day of the CHS interview. In case you're not good at picking up cues, that saying would imply that the whole truth has not been told.
https://instagram.com/p/BiCogmMg0kU/ This was posted after. READ THE WHOLE THING.
https://instagram.com/p/BiptvCYgmqS/ Notice the "lies" tag.

https://instagram.com/p/Bhfs0bhAAWD/ She also posted this saying he got a "raw deal".

[Sugar Mouse]

There goes your intellectually dishonest emphasis on the number of media outlets again...

I think it's clear that you're not being intellectually honest.

Again ... I'm saying that the current evidence (media outlet reporting is part of this) overwhelmingly supports the band's story. Things could change if Lindsey does offer up his version of the story.

Evidence for:

Dozens of media outlet reports
Band's story
No denial from Lindsey's camp
Rolling stone senior writer report

Evidence against:

The gut feeling of folks on this forum :)

[Sugar Mouse]

They're literally on her Instagram.
https://instagram.com/p/BiA__FSgxdY/ This was posted the day of the CHS interview. In case you're not good at picking up cues, that saying would imply that the whole truth has not been told.
https://instagram.com/p/BiCogmMg0kU/ This was posted after. READ THE WHOLE THING.
https://instagram.com/p/BiptvCYgmqS/ Notice the "lies" tag.

https://instagram.com/p/Bhfs0bhAAWD/ She also posted this saying he got a "raw deal".

I've read through all of her Instagram posts. None of those posts include a denial that Lindsey was pushing to move the tour back to 2019. Please show me where it says that. All it says is that her husband got a "raw deal.". I get that. She believes that the band firing her husband because he was pushing the band to rearrange the tour is, in her opinion, a raw deal.

[dreamsunwind]

Please post what these "reliable people" have said. Where are these quotes? I read through the Rick Turner stuff and there's nothing there. He basically said that he heard from someone that Lindsey was negotiating to do his solo tour alongside the Mac tour. He had no information on whether Lindsey was pushing to delay the Mac tour. If you have any actual evidence, please post it because you all keep referring to evidence that doesn't appear to exist.

Like I've said for the billionth time there was also the BM band member (Federico Poll), Elle posted the comment as well.
And those people said exactly what people like Rick, Federico, that video of Lindsey at the MusiCares event, Lindsey's wife's shady comments would all LATER (note the said this before we got these comments from other people) support directly and or indirectly support-- Lindsey was trying to do two tours which they didn't like so they threw him out.
But I'm done arguing with you, you deny actual facts and presented "evidence" as you like to call it and just say over and over that your claims are true.

[Sugar Mouse]

Like I've said for the billionth time there was also the BM band member (Federico Poll), Elle posted the comment as well.
And those people said exactly what people like Rick, Federico, that video of Lindsey at the MusiCares event, Lindsey's wife's shady comments would all LATER (note the said this before we got these comments from other people) support directly and or indirectly support-- Lindsey was trying to do two tours which they didn't like so they threw him out.
But I'm done arguing with you, you deny actual facts and presented "evidence" as you like to call it and just say over and over that your claims are true.

I have not seen what Federico said but Rick's comments don't add much. It sounds like we can agree that Lindsey committed to the Mac tour and then decided that he wanted to do a solo tour in parallel with or possibly rescheduling the Mac tour. The band discussed this with Lindsey and Lindsey wouldn't back down so the band fired him.

[Sugar Mouse]

and the actual interviewer's interpretation (Andy Greene of Rolling Stone) is available for everyone to listen. he clearly doesn't believe the band and is not shy in stating so: https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/rollingstonemusicnow?selected=PPY8437307399

there is a reason why all the band defenders are not bringing up this interview or the CBS video.

PS welcome to the board saniette!! :wavey:

Huh? Andy Greene (from Rolling Stone) clearly reported that Lindsey asked the band to reschedule the tour for a "solid year." That was what the band's camp told him and no one from the Lindsey camp denies that part of the story.

[Storms123]

Of course, it's your choice whether to believe anything someone says. By the way, I'm not saying what these two people said is true. All I'm saying is that's what they told me. They could, of course, be under Stevie's spell. :nod:

How about this? You are actually acknowledging your sources who you are believing like they are quoting the gospel may be lying. These are also the same people in lindseys organization but may be on Stevie’s side?

[sue]

can you clarify on this - where is hypocrisy on Lindsey's side in this firing from FM issue?

obviously as a primarily LB fan, i can be biased and would like to make sure that is the case as little as possible. thanks so much!

Okay hypocrisy maybe the wrong word, just answering a previous comment.
But this board for middle of the fence fan is really tedious.
Some comments are fair but some go on and on and on, you get my drift.
and on and on...

[sodascouts]

I think it's clear that you're not being intellectually honest.

Again ... I'm saying that the current evidence (media outlet reporting is part of this) overwhelmingly supports the band's story. Things could change if Lindsey does offer up his version of the story.

Evidence for:

Dozens of media outlet reports
Band's story
No denial from Lindsey's camp
Rolling stone senior writer report

Evidence against:

The gut feeling of folks on this forum

Evidence for, evaluated:

Dozens of media outlet reports - intellectually dishonest to emphasize number of media reports; either you are choosing to continue to put forward the fallacious argument that the number of reports which present the band's story lends it additional credence, or you are not a very good communications teacher. It's the same as below.

Band's story - I have no problem with you believing this, actually. I don't find it realistic, but you do. Fine. I only have a problem with how agitated you are that other people DON'T buy it.

No [official] denial from Lindsey's camp - Again, I can see why you would cling to this.

Rolling stone senior writer report - this one is just the same as the "band's story" and the "media outlets." There was no new information. It's intellectually dishonest to try to make your reasons look more numerous by reframing them.

So, to sum up:

Evidence for: The band's story, which Lindsey has not directly contradicted with his own story.

Evidence against: the holes in logic, the video of Lindsey after MusiCares, the implication of Lindsey's quasi-statement, the implications of Kristen Buckingham's pointed social media posts, the social media posts by Rick Turner and Frederico Pol. (Someone let me know if I missed anything.)

It's as simple as who you believe, and which makes more sense to you. Take your pick.

[Sugar Mouse]

How about this? You are actually acknowledging your sources who you are believing like they are quoting the gospel may be lying. These are also the same people in lindseys organization but may be on Stevie’s side?

I believe the two people I spoke with because I know them and trust them. I don't believe they're lying but, like anything in life, they may have the story wrong. I think it's unlikely but it's possible.

[SteveMacD]

Still want an answer as to how your second or third hand information is better than Rick Turner’s.

[Sugar Mouse]

Still want an answer as to how your second or third hand information is better than Rick Turner’s.

Because I actually spoke with them and know who they are and that the information is likely to be reliable. Rick Turner's information doesn't contradict the band's story, by the way. All he said, like Lindsey's wife, is that he believes that Lindsey got a raw deal in being fired. That's a reasonable feeling for someone to have as is the band feeling frustrated that Lindsey wanted to change the schedule to accommodate his solo tour.

[Sugar Mouse]

Evidence for, evaluated:

Dozens of media outlet reports - intellectually dishonest to emphasize number of media reports; either you are choosing to continue to put forward the fallacious argument that the number of reports which present the band's story lends it additional credence, or you are not a very good communications teacher. It's the same as below.

Band's story - I have no problem with you believing this, actually. I don't find it realistic, but you do. Fine. I only have a problem with how agitated you are that other people DON'T buy it.

No [official] denial from Lindsey's camp - Again, I can see why you would cling to this.

Rolling stone senior writer report - this one is just the same as the "band's story" and the "media outlets." There was no new information. It's intellectually dishonest to try to make your reasons look more numerous by reframing them.

So, to sum up:

Evidence for: The band's story, which Lindsey has not directly contradicted with his own story.

Evidence against: the holes in logic, the video of Lindsey after MusiCares, the implication of Lindsey's quasi-statement, the implications of Kristen Buckingham's pointed social media posts, the social media posts by Rick Turner and Frederico Pol. (Someone let me know if I missed anything.)

It's as simple as who you believe, and which makes more sense to you. Take your pick.

What did Rick and/or Federico say that contradicted the band's story? They believe that Lindsey got a raw deal but what did they say to contradict the band's account?

[Dr.Brown]

Because I actually spoke with them and know who they are and that the information is likely to be reliable. Rick Turner's information doesn't contradict the band's story, by the way. All he said, like Lindsey's wife, is that he believes that Lindsey got a raw deal in being fired. That's a reasonable feeling for someone to have as is the band feeling frustrated that Lindsey wanted to change the schedule to accommodate his solo tour.

You are free to believe that, no matter how nonsensical an allegation that Lindsey demanded that Fleetwood Mac not tour for nearly two years seems to outside observers. Did it even occur to you to question this claim?

Understand that an appeal to anonymous sources that only you have knowledge of is something that no one can objectively trust.

[Sugar Mouse]

You are free to believe that, no matter how nonsensical an allegation that Lindsey demanded that Fleetwood Mac not tour for nearly two years seems to outside observers. Did it even occur to you to question this claim?

Understand that an appeal to anonymous sources that only you have knowledge of is something that no one can objectively trust.

Of course, it occurs to me to question any claim that anyone makes including Fleetwood Mac. I would just need to see some real evidence that contradicts the band's story and I have not seen that. I've seen Rick Turner say Lindsey got a raw deal. I've seen Lindsey say the band "lost perspective". I've seen his wife say that Lindsey got a raw deal. None of that contradicts the band's story other than to say that Lindsey's camp believes that firing him wasn't right.

[elle]

Rolling stone senior writer report - this one is just the same as the "band's story" and the "media outlets." There was no new information. It's intellectually dishonest to try to make your reasons look more numerous by reframing them.

also note that Andy Greene's report supports band narrative only if you selectively just go by the written article, but not if you listen to his actual commentary of the interview here https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/rollingstonemusicnow?selected=PPY8437307399 - his commentary is hilarious and implies band is lying. :thumbsup:

[SteveMacD]

(Someone let me know if I missed anything.)

Didn’t Jimmy Paxson comment on it, too?

[elle]

Okay hypocrisy maybe the wrong word, just answering a previous comment.
But this board for middle of the fence fan is really tedious.
Some comments are fair but some go on and on and on, you get my drift.
and on and on...

ok, thanks. i couldn't see any hypocrisy in LB camp either, but like i said, i wanted to make sure since obviously i can be biased.

i hear you on comments going on and on! the same comments, too.

the thing is, sometimes straddling the middle ends up supporting false equivalency. which can happen when you are trying to be neutral, but one side was actually wronged by the other side, and so there may be no neutral position.

that doesn't mean you cannot just chose to disregard all the underlying subtext and take whatever you can from the band and its members, while you still can. all 4 still in the band out of the Rumours 5 are now septuagenarians, and there may not be that much time left to see them anymore. add to that what happened with Tom Petty and Prince, and we may not know whether any of the current Mac members might be doing something similar, in which case age doesn't even matter. :distress: time is definitely running out.

[SteveMacD]

That was what the band's camp told him and no one from the Lindsey camp denies that part of the story.

However, you seem to miss that Andy Green went on the record as saying that he didn’t really believe their story based on their body language. While that’s subjective observation on his part, I can’t imagine that throwing a band like Fleetwood Mac under the bus is a good career move for rock journalist, so he must have really believed he was right.

Also, the talk of a concurrent tour actually does rebuke the band’s story. By definition, he couldn’t be planning a CONCURRENT tour and also ask for a nearly two year delay.

[elle]

Didn’t Jimmy Paxson comment on it, too?

someone said he did, but then deleted his post very fast. so i don't know whether he did or not.

people's comments were very clear too, when replying to claims that Lindsey was asking for huge delay bs. all these people started their comment with "wrong!"

[Storms123]

Didn’t Jimmy Paxson comment on it, too?

Brian Larsen did too. And he’s spent some time with Lindsey very recently (according to his IG)

[Sugar Mouse]

also note that Andy Greene's report supports band narrative only if you selectively just go by the written article, but not if you listen to his actual commentary of the interview here https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/rollingstonemusicnow?selected=PPY8437307399 - his commentary is hilarious and implies band is lying. :thumbsup:

That may be your interpretation. I've listened to the audio and I don't hear it that way. He said that this is the band's account which we know is the case.

[Sugar Mouse]

someone said he did, but then deleted his post very fast. so i don't know whether he did or not.

people's comments were very clear too, when replying to claims that Lindsey was asking for huge delay bs. all these people started their comment with "wrong!"

Please post one quote from someone who denies that Lindsey asked to delay the tour. Even Rick Turner said that Lindsey did ask to delay the tour but Rick said that someone told him that Lindsey had backed off that demand.

[Angel75]

[QUOTE=SteveMacD;1229769
Also, the talk of a concurrent tour actually does rebuke the band’s story. By definition, he couldn’t be planning a CONCURRENT tour and also ask for a nearly two year delay.[/QUOTE]

Great point!
SM - there IS evidence to support Lindsey's view to tour both FM and solo together. Why are these never wrong and never lie 'media outlets' not mentioning this?

I wonder to myself has there ever once in history been a time when a media outlet has reported something as fact when it was a lie or untruth? Hmmmmm

[Dr.Brown]

Please post one quote from someone who denies that Lindsey asked to delay the tour. Even Rick Turner said that Lindsey did ask to delay the tour but Rick said that someone told him that Lindsey had backed off that demand.

Please, here once again you're being deliberately obtuse. The issue isn't a delay - the issue is the claim made by your 'sources' and the narrative now being pushed that Lindsey was 'ugly worded' for demanding nearly a two year delay in touring. I can't imagine anyone of sound mind believing that Lindsey actually made such a demand.

[Sugar Mouse]

Please, here once again being you're being deliberately obtuse. The issue isn't a delay - the issue is the claim made by your 'sources' and the narrative now being pushed that Lindsey was 'ugly worded' for demanding nearly a two year delay in touring. I can't imagine anyone of sound mind believing that Lindsey actually made such a demand.

Thanks for letting me know when I'm deliberately being obtuse. Good to know. :laugh:

Also, delaying the tour until November 2019 is a ONE year delay as this tour is starting in October 2018.

[Sugar Mouse]

Great point!
SM - there IS evidence to support Lindsey's view to tour both FM and solo together. Why are these never wrong and never lie 'media outlets' not mentioning this?

I wonder to myself has there ever once in history been a time when a media outlet has reported something as fact when it was a lie or untruth? Hmmmmm

Oh my ... the band told Rolling Stone that Lindsey wanted a "solid year" delay in the tour from October 2018 to November 2019. Where did you get this two year stuff?

And I agree that Lindsey asked the band to have a concurrent solo tour alongside the Mac tour. The band said "no" and Lindsey kept pushing for that and the two sides went back and forth and Lindsey proposed moving the Mac tour back a year (as Rick Turner acknowledged). Eventually the band became more and more frustrated with this and fired Lindsey. Lindsey and his friends/family think this is a raw deal.

[Dr.Brown]

From January 2018 (when things apparently came to an impasse) to November 2019 = 22 months. That's almost two years.

What is Lindsey's most extensive tour ever, time-wise?

Perhaps you can do some research, find out, and then see for yourself why a demand for such a delay is outlandish, especially given the age and health condition of other band members.

[dreamsunwind]

Oh my ... the band told Rolling Stone that Lindsey wanted a "solid year" delay in the tour from October 2018 to November 2019. Where did you get this two year stuff?

And I agree that Lindsey asked the band to have a concurrent solo tour alongside the Mac tour. The band said "no" and Lindsey kept pushing for that and the two sides went back and forth and Lindsey proposed moving the Mac tour back a year (as Rick Turner acknowledged). Eventually the band became more and more frustrated with this and fired Lindsey. Lindsey and his friends/family think this is a raw deal.

Lol NOW you're saying this? This is literally what most people have been saying. That the band is manipulating the truth with their whole "he just didn't want to go on tour for a whole year" story. Whenever the supposed delay suggestion happened or didn't happen, he was TRYING to do something that would work with the band's tour plan and they weren't budging and then just threw him out. It's not some huge conspiracy intended to bash on other members (although it's perfectly reasonable to question the intentions of people like Mick and Stevie), it's just people obviously objecting to the fact that Lindsey was trying to work something out so he could do the solo thing he wanted to do but the band was unfair in not allowing it and its criminal that they would just throw him out because he was trying to get them to be flexible on HIS side for once(rather than Stevie's-- who they will always work around, no matter what she does) and then paint a colored version of the story in the press to make themselves look better.

[dreamsunwind]

Please post one quote from someone who denies that Lindsey asked to delay the tour. Even Rick Turner said that Lindsey did ask to delay the tour but Rick said that someone told him that Lindsey had backed off that demand.

ELLE can you please share the Federico Poll comment that you posted earlier?

[Sugar Mouse]

Lol NOW you're saying this? This is literally what most people have been saying. That the band is manipulating the truth with their whole "he just didn't want to go on tour for a whole year" story. Whenever the supposed delay suggestion happened or didn't happen, he was TRYING to do something that would work with the band's tour plan and they weren't budging and then just threw him out. It's not some huge conspiracy intended to bash on other members (although it's perfectly reasonable to question the intentions of people like Mick and Stevie), it's just people obviously objecting to the fact that Lindsey was trying to work something out so he could do the solo thing he wanted to do but the band was unfair in not allowing it and its criminal that they would just throw him out because he was trying to get them to be flexible on HIS side for once(rather than Stevie's-- who they will always work around, no matter what she does) and then paint a colored version of the story in the press to make themselves look better.

The bogus conspiracy theory is that this was a Mick/Stevie plan to boot Lindsey. It was Lindsey agreeing to the Mac tour 1-2 years ago and then deciding that he also wants a solo tour and then pushing and pushing to have his solo tour concurrent w/ the Mac tour. The band had every right to say "no". The band tried all they could to work out a compromise but eventually became frustrated with Lindsey. Anyone who watched the "Destiny Rules" documentary saw just how uncompromising Lindsey can be. This is like any company that doesn't want an employee doing another job that could affect the person's job performance or the company itself. The band tried to make it work with Lindsey but eventually cut ties with him when it became clear that a compromise couldn't be reached.

[dreamsunwind]

The bogus conspiracy theory is that this was a Mick/Stevie plan to boot Lindsey. It was Lindsey agreeing to the Mac tour 1-2 years ago and then deciding that he also wants a solo tour and then pushing and pushing to have his solo tour concurrent w/ the Mac tour. The band had every right to say "no". The band tried all they could to work out a compromise but eventually became frustrated with Lindsey. Anyone who watched the "Destiny Rules" documentary saw just how uncompromising Lindsey can be. This is like any company that doesn't want an employee doing another job that could affect the person's job performance or the company itself. The band tried to make it work with Lindsey but eventually cut ties with him when it became clear that a compromise couldn't be reached.

The Destiny Rules documentary???? LOL.
All that really showed to me is Lindsey being dramatic and ~new artsy music-y~ and then ultimately giving up his double album dream (interestingly who was VERY uncompromising in NOT wanting it to be a double album-- Stevie! Who threatened not to tour for the length of it if that were to happen, a big factor in why it was scrapped).
And if you honestly think Fleetwood Mac is so adamant that they don't want their members doing anything that could somehow affect the band then I really don't know what to tell you. If they were serious about that then Stevie would've gotten the boot DECADES ago, maybe when she went to Australia to sing with Tom Petty instead of working in the studio with her band. Or any of the countless delays she's caused or BS they've let her get away with. They only care when it's a member who doesn't fill arenas the same way and it's easier for them to just get replacements, no matter how much that member has given to the band for decades.

[SteveMacD]

And I agree that Lindsey asked the band to have a concurrent solo tour alongside the Mac tour. The band said "no" and Lindsey kept pushing for that and the two sides went back and forth and Lindsey proposed moving the Mac tour back a year (as Rick Turner acknowledged). Eventually the band became more and more frustrated with this and fired Lindsey. Lindsey and his friends/family think this is a raw deal.

See, that’s speculation on your part. Many here are speculating either the concurrent tour was a compromise or that he never asked for the tour to be delayed because the only plan WAS a concurrent tour.

Stevie is the only one who said he wanted to delay rehearsals until next November. However, people directly connected with Lindsey, one even being in Lindsey’s band, have only talked about a concurrent tour. So, it’s literally a matter of who you choose to believe.

[nicepace]

This thread is unbearable. Sugar Mouse, just give up, will you please? You have tried and tried and tried to get people to say: "you're right." And nobody is saying "you're right." Why do you have such a desperate need for people to say "you're right"? If you're convinced in your mind that your explanation is correct, just let it go at that, okay? What difference does it make to you what anybody else thinks!!!

The reason, by the way, that people aren't saying "you're right" has nothing to do with bad reasoning or lack of logic, but your own lack of evidence. No one knows who you are, you're a newcomer here, you are saying the same weak arguments over and over and over, and you are quoting two anonymous "sources" -- oh please! And you can't stop trying to get people to agree with you!

I usually stay out of this sort of argument, but they have never in my years on the Ledge gone on this long. I suggest the rest of us just block Sugar Mouse and get on with our lives.

[Sugar Mouse]

See, that’s speculation on your part. Many here are speculating either the concurrent tour was a compromise or that he never asked for the tour to be delayed because the only plan WAS a concurrent tour.

Stevie is the only one who said he wanted to delay rehearsals until next November. However, people directly connected with Lindsey, one even being in Lindsey’s band, have only talked about a concurrent tour. So, it’s literally a matter of who you choose to believe.

No. Lindsey hasn't denied the story of him delaying the tour. You can't believe his story if he doesn't have a story.

[SteveMacD]

No. Lindsey hasn't denied the story of him delaying the tour. You can't believe his story if he doesn't have a story.

Yes you can if a surrogate, in this case his luthier and his bassist (who would very obviously have known about tour dates), have only talked about a concurrent tour. The earliest Lindsey will talk about it is maybe during his own tour pressers, and he will probably be very vague about it even then, assuming he can even go into detail.

[Storms123]

Yes you can if a surrogate, in this case his luthier and his bassist (who would very obviously have known about tour dates), have only talked about a concurrent tour. The earliest Lindsey will talk about it is maybe during his own tour pressers, and he will probably be very vague about it even then, assuming he can even go into detail.

You will never win with this one. He/she manipulating the English language more than Bill Clinton when he was on trial.

[Sugar Mouse]

Yes you can if a surrogate, in this case his luthier and his bassist (who would very obviously have known about tour dates), have only talked about a concurrent tour. The earliest Lindsey will talk about it is maybe during his own tour pressers, and he will probably be very vague about it even then, assuming he can even go into detail.

The trouble with your story is that Rick Turner acknowledges that Lindsey did ask to delay the Mac tour. So even his surrogate admits this. The debate isn't whether Lindsey pushed to delay the Mac tour, it's whether the band should have fired him over it. How much of a delay would justify his firing?

[SteveMacD]

The trouble with your story is that Rick Turner acknowledges that Lindsey did ask to delay the Mac tour.

No he didn’t.

“At one point, Lindsey had proposed that both FM and he with his band tour at the same time with the LB band filling in dates between the FM shows. The report was that Stevie wanted at least a day between gigs; Lindsey wanted to play as much as possible. That's what I heard from a most reliable source at the NAMM show in January.”

Not delay. Concurrent.

[Sugar Mouse]

No he didn’t.

“At one point, Lindsey had proposed that both FM and he with his band tour at the same time with the LB band filling in dates between the FM shows. The report was that Stevie wanted at least a day between gigs; Lindsey wanted to play as much as possible. That's what I heard from a most reliable source at the NAMM show in January.”

Not delay. Concurrent.

Rick said that Lindsey asked to delay the tour but that he had backed off that request and instead pushed for concurrent tours.

[saniette]

Rick said that Lindsey asked to delay the tour but that he had backed off that request and instead pushed for concurrent tours.

OK, so the band IS lying then, since Lindsey was no longer asking to delay the tour when he got fired? How come the band didn't mention concurrent tours at all, if they're so forthcoming and truthful?

Why would you fire someone if they were backing off on a request?

[SteveMacD]

Rick said that Lindsey asked to delay the tour but that he had backed off that request and instead pushed for concurrent tours.

Either you have very poor reading comprehension or are just lying. These are the entirety of Rick Turner’s comments. Show me where he says or implies that Lindsey wanted anything other than a concurrent tour.

Rick Turner At one point, Lindsey had proposed that both FM and he with his band tour at the same time with the LB band filling in dates between the FM shows. The report was that Stevie wanted at least a day between gigs; Lindsey wanted to play as much as possible. That's what I heard from a most reliable source at the NAMM show in January.

Rick Turner Elle Llew Sure. I think it just points out one point of contention. Maybe it looked to some as though LB was going to do really well touring hard; perhaps not doubling his money on the tour, but certainly getting in nearly twice the audience face tim...See More

Rick Turner The whole thing is a mess, and I'm sorry for them all. I've had some memorable moments with that crew!

Rick Turner Felix Le Chat Lindsey would have gotten more press than Stevie if they'd done a double tour like that.

Rick Turner Pattie D Would have to have been planned for different cities.

Rick Turner Pattie D Well, it would just be two interlaced tours with some of the folks working practically every night. But that's what they do in musical theater...Broadway and off-Broadway actors do eight shows a week...six nights and two matinees. That's what professionals are capable of. At one point the Beach Boys were often enough doing two gigs on the same day, and on at least one day, they did three...in three different cities. Lot's of alimony to pay for those guys!

Rick Turner It would have been doable. It just needed everyone's buy-in

[Angel75]

I wrote:

Originally Posted by Angel75 View Post
Great point!
SM - there IS evidence to support Lindsey's view to tour both FM and solo together. Why are these never wrong and never lie 'media outlets' not mentioning this?

I wonder to myself has there ever once in history been a time when a media outlet has reported something as fact when it was a lie or untruth? Hmmmmm


Oh my ... the band told Rolling Stone that Lindsey wanted a "solid year" delay in the tour from October 2018 to November 2019. Where did you get this two year stuff?

And I agree that Lindsey asked the band to have a concurrent solo tour alongside the Mac tour. The band said "no" and Lindsey kept pushing for that and the two sides went back and forth and Lindsey proposed moving the Mac tour back a year (as Rick Turner acknowledged). Eventually the band became more and more frustrated with this and fired Lindsey. Lindsey and his friends/family think this is a raw deal.


I agree with other members....you seem to struggle with reading and comprehension. You quoted me above and then ask where did I get this two year stuff......I never once mentioned it!!!!!

[HomerMcvie]

This thread is unbearable. Sugar Mouse, just give up, will you please? You have tried and tried and tried to get people to say: "you're right." And nobody is saying "you're right." Why do you have such a desperate need for people to say "you're right"? If you're convinced in your mind that your explanation is correct, just let it go at that, okay? What difference does it make to you what anybody else thinks!!!

The reason, by the way, that people aren't saying "you're right" has nothing to do with bad reasoning or lack of logic, but your own lack of evidence. No one knows who you are, you're a newcomer here, you are saying the same weak arguments over and over and over, and you are quoting two anonymous "sources" -- oh please! And you can't stop trying to get people to agree with you!

I usually stay out of this sort of argument, but they have never in my years on the Ledge gone on this long. I suggest the rest of us just block Sugar Mouse and get on with our lives.
I agree completely. It takes a lot to wear me out, but Sugar Mick is doing it!

I'm seriously considering your third paragraph. Because it just won't stop.

[sasja]

Sugar, maybe just give it a rest now, and wait until Lindsey starts his tour and does press, and get it from the horses mouth then, perhaps. Or, down the line, if the shyster and co. deem to comment further, get your gratification then. Because, I am not seeing you achieving that satisfaction in this thread here with us, darlin' ! :xoxo: :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Hallelujah!! I dont know if he is paying them or what.

I did wonder if there was money involved. :shrug:

[Sugar Mouse]

Either you have very poor reading comprehension or are just lying. These are the entirety of Rick Turner’s comments. Show me where he says or implies that Lindsey wanted anything other than a concurrent tour.

Your Rick Turner thread is incomplete. It doesn't include the part I mentioned. Nice try.

[Sugar Mouse]

So it is on record now before all the truth comes out, each of you believes that Lindsey never asked to delay the Mac tour until next year. Please confirm.

[lovethemac1]

This thread is unbearable. Sugar Mouse, just give up, will you please? You have tried and tried and tried to get people to say: "you're right." And nobody is saying "you're right." Why do you have such a desperate need for people to say "you're right"? If you're convinced in your mind that your explanation is correct, just let it go at that, okay? What difference does it make to you what anybody else thinks!!!

The reason, by the way, that people aren't saying "you're right" has nothing to do with bad reasoning or lack of logic, but your own lack of evidence. No one knows who you are, you're a newcomer here, you are saying the same weak arguments over and over and over, and you are quoting two anonymous "sources" -- oh please! And you can't stop trying to get people to agree with you!

I usually stay out of this sort of argument, but they have never in my years on the Ledge gone on this long. I suggest the rest of us just block Sugar Mouse and get on with our lives.

Amen. In the 7 years I have been here, I have always enjoyed the discusssions and different points of view. I think i have to block Sugar Mick because he/she is just trying to annoy everyone that doesn’t share his/her point of view. I have NEVER EVER felt this way about anyone on The Ledge.

[SteveMacD]

Your Rick Turner thread is incomplete. It doesn't include the part I mentioned. Nice try.

Post the part you mentioned. Put up or shut up.

[sasja]

So it is on record now before all the truth comes out, each of you believes that Lindsey never asked to delay the Mac tour until next year. Please confirm.

No chance, lady. All that I will confirm is that I believe Lindsey got shafted because some people were not seemingly socially apt enough to work out and compromise on WHATEVER the matters were, instead seemingly using the opportunity to kick him out for no justifiable reason I have been able to ascertain.
The "delaying" you speak of is completely tertiary to the discussion at hand.
IMHO of course.
:nod:

[dreamsunwind]

So it is on record now before all the truth comes out, each of you believes that Lindsey never asked to delay the Mac tour until next year. Please confirm.

No. I believe that Lindsey wanted to do dates in between FM shows since he thought that would work out best. I think that was his real aim and looking at how spread out the tour dates are, it makes sense why he would go for that. And I think the reason he wanted to do solo dates was because he had hoped that the next FM tour would be behind a new album but obviously that didn't happen and I think the weirdo artsy creative person that Lindsey is couldn't handle another greatest hits tour playing the same damn songs so he would have needed some other 'outlet'. He probably asked before that to delay the tour but when it became clear they weren’t gonna agree to that, that’s when he started planning to do his double tour thing instead but they didn’t like that so they fired him anyways. That video of him telling the fan his plans for the year right after the MusiCares event was very shortly before Mike Campbell got the call so that version of events really makes the most sense. Or it’s possible that he was planning to do a double tour thing for most of the time but they shut him down sometime after that video, very last minute and then he tried asking to delay the tour and then they fired him because they figured it would just be easier to bring in their replacements. And yes I do think Stevie encouraged bringing Mike Campbell into the fold, I’m not saying that it’s a big conspiracy about her wanting Lindsey out but it’s too much of a coincidence that HER friend Mike, the bff of the late Tom Petty also her friend whose death she has been grieving got the call so quickly. I think it was said that Neil didn't get the call until later but Mike was almost right away. The whole point is that the band is painting a very colored/one-sided version of the story, making it look as if control freak Lindsey just didn’t want to tour for a year for whatever reason and insisted that the band go along with it and didn’t budge when in reality he was actually trying to make things work but they unfairly shut all his plans down and threw him out anyways.

[Sugar Mouse]

Post the part you mentioned. Put up or shut up.

Numerous folks here have posted that Rick said that. I'm not going to track it down.

[Sugar Mouse]

Perhaps it would be more helpful to the conversation if each person posts what they've think happened. I've already done that but few of you have. Will be good to have it on record.

[dreamsunwind]

Numerous folks here have posted that Rick said that. I'm not going to track it down.

Rick never once said Lindsey asked to delay the tour. When the conversation was reposted I clicked the link and read the entire thing and he never once said that. All he said was that he knew there were plans and talks about Lindsey doing concurrent shows and that it was complicated and the band probably didn't like it.
And no one on here except you has ever posted saying Rick claimed Lindsey did ask to delay the tour. I'm not sure where you're getting that idea. And I even actually think it's possible that he did at one point suggest that, but Rick absolutely did not say that anywhere.

[SteveMacD]

Numerous folks here have posted that Rick said that. I'm not going to track it down.

Nobody posted that Rick said anything about Lindsey trying to delay the tour because he didn’t. I looked through the entire thread on Facebook. At no point did he ever suggest it. Sorry that’s an inconvenient truth for you. At least I looked, not relying on what other people said, and posted his actual words on the subject were.

Again, if you have proof he said otherwise, put up or shut up.

[saniette]

Perhaps it would be more helpful to the conversation if each person posts what they've think happened. I've already done that but few of you have. Will be good to have it on record.

Well that wasn't hard for you, since you're just repeating the band's story. "Whatever Stevie and Mick say", right?

I don't claim to know what happened, but clearly Stevie and Lindsey's relationship broke down, and he was the casualty. And I think BuckVie was the most recent grudge on her list, since it made her look like what she is - not a team player in the band. In any case, I think it's pretty clear she wanted Mike Campbell in the band, and that's what we have now.

What I thought both sides could agree on is that the band's story is obviously not the whole story. But you seem to view it as the "gold standard" by which everything else is judged. Only Stevie said November 2019, and suddenly that is an airtight story? No one else has corroborated that date. Well, Lindsey said there's factions in the band that lost perspective. How come that holds no weight with you?

But I've pretty much given up on the powers of logic and persuasion here. You only interpret things to confirm your bias, and you really are just trolling now.

[mikeymac]

I came here expecting to see discussion on whether people believe Mick and speculation as to what really happened. To me, something is missing. Note what Mick is denying, denying that "Stevie was responsible" or that she "gave an ultimatum". I think he's walking a fine line here, and finds it appropriate to say "No" because he can twist the wording in his mind. But that's it? Just No?
He and Stevie's explanations remind me of what a gang would say after a hit: "Did one of you do this?"; "No, we all did". Just my opinion but I think there's more than they're saying. Right off the bat "couldn't agree on aspects of the tour" and "wanted to delay the tour" are two different things. And neither strike me as being sufficient reason.

[mikeymac]

@saniette "I don't claim to know what happened, but clearly Stevie and Lindsey's relationship broke down... and that's what we have now.": Good thought; I agree!

[SteveMacD]

While I don’t believe what Stevie is saying, would people here feel different or better if she had said “He wanted to do solo dates on our nights off, which the majority of the band felt was unacceptable. This is the time we get to be a band, and we felt Lindsey’s solo dates would diminish that.”?

[sasja]

While I don’t believe what Stevie is saying, would people here feel different or better if she had said “He wanted to do solo dates on our nights off, which the majority of the band felt was unacceptable. This is the time we get to be a band, and we felt Lindsey’s solo dates would diminish that.”?

SteveMacD, very good question, and my reply would have to be:

Hahhahaahaaa! No.
On HOW many occasions over the years has that band had to wait around for Stevie, who then eventually still never showed up? Or at the most,literally merely called in a lackluster smidgen? In recording situations, especially. Most notably recently, 2 years ago, upon Christine's return and the Duo (Quartet) album rather than band album that subsequently followed last year. And "nobody" got canned then either, did she?

No, that'd never wash, "“He wanted to do solo dates on our nights off, which the majority of the band felt was unacceptable. This is the time we get to be a band, and we felt Lindsey’s solo dates would diminish that.”?

I am afraid I would burst out in loud laughter, of the derogatory variety, to my own discredit, that last, but still, it would be hard to prevent.:]

[BigAl84]

holy sh*t, I leave for a few days and I come back to find out KellyAnne Conway is a Fleetwood Mac fan & taking to their defense on this board...

[bombaysaffires]

I saw your post so I went to the Webster's Dictionary website and looked up "whore" and the definitions are divided into categories with the first category being "offensive" with a definition of promiscuous woman.

It's a bit odd that I'm having to explain that "whore" is an offensive word but Webster's considers the term to be an offensive one listing "offensive" as the primary category.

All I'm saying is that I'm surprised that the moderators are cool with this kind of offensive language. I'm going to stick to a positive discussion of the music and hope that the moderators work to curtail the bullying and offensive posts that are clearly preventing many fans from posting here.

so clearly you found that there is more than one definition of the word, and only one of those referred to a promiscuous woman. So what were the other definitions? And why can't you accept that as it's typically used here falls into those other categories? Some people just look for fights.

[bombaysaffires]

I came here expecting to see discussion on whether people believe Mick and speculation as to what really happened. To me, something is missing. Note what Mick is denying, denying that "Stevie was responsible" or that she "gave an ultimatum". I think he's walking a fine line here, and finds it appropriate to say "No" because he can twist the wording in his mind. But that's it? Just No?
He and Stevie's explanations remind me of what a gang would say after a hit: "Did one of you do this?"; "No, we all did". Just my opinion but I think there's more than they're saying. Right off the bat "couldn't agree on aspects of the tour" and "wanted to delay the tour" are two different things. And neither strike me as being sufficient reason.

yes, and the other part of the question they asked was about Stevie wanting Lindsey out because she wanted Mike in the band.

So he could have been parsing the question and answering the bit about her premeditatively wanting Mike in the band.

[KenshiMaster16]

Here is the simple answer; Mick is not the type of person to tell the truth of a situation to paparazzi, especially TMZ of all people. Mick is the type to update his autobiography with a new section based on this drama and reveal half truths and petty squabbles there.

The truth of the matter is we will never truly know what happened, only bits and bobs. This bands reputation and livelihood thrives off of drama and romanticism. Destroy that element of Stevie and Lindsey's contribution to the band by revealing how everything (potentially) ended for good and you dirty the legacy. However, I say potentially because of how 1997 went. Once the band suffers a flop, the Rumours line-up will be back. Nevermind what the rest of the band wants or doesnt want, I dont think Mick's ego can take a loss very well so potentially ending such a long career on a loss? Yeah, I dont think so.

[Storms123]

Here is the simple answer; Mick is not the type of person to tell the truth of a situation to paparazzi, especially TMZ of all people. Mick is the type to update his autobiography with a new section based on this drama and reveal half truths and petty squabbles there.

The truth of the matter is we will never truly know what happened, only bits and bobs. This bands reputation and livelihood thrives off of drama and romanticism. Destroy that element of Stevie and Lindsey's contribution to the band by revealing how everything (potentially) ended for good and you dirty the legacy. However, I say potentially because of how 1997 went. Once the band suffers a flop, the Rumours line-up will be back. Nevermind what the rest of the band wants or doesnt want, I dont think Mick's ego can take a loss very well so potentially ending such a long career on a loss? Yeah, I dont think so.

That last line holds so much truth to it. He does not want a farewell tour to end on this note, that I really do believe. And likely why he’s so resistant to using the word “fired”

[HomerMcvie]

That last line holds so much truth to it. He does not want a farewell tour to end on this note, that I really do believe. And likely why he’s so resistant to using the word “fired”

Do you really think that Lindsey would go back NOW? I hope he doesn't, because they ruined the end of the band when they fired him.

I hope he tells them to shove it straight up their arses!

[Macfan4life]

Its so weird. Stevie used to go so out of her way to keep Fleetwood Mac together. She stayed when Lindsey left. She even stayed when Christine left. I would love to know when she made the change to no longer try to preserve Fleetwood Mac especially since Christine came back. I know she does not care for Lindsey but you would think she would be like... we suffered all this time but one last album and tour will have us go out in style.

[nicepace]

holy sh*t, I leave for a few days and I come back to find out KellyAnne Conway is a Fleetwood Mac fan & taking to their defense on this board...

Ha! Good one.

[Storms123]

Do you really think that Lindsey would go back NOW? I hope he doesn't, because they ruined the end of the band when they fired him.

I hope he tells them to shove it straight up their arses!

Oh I don’t disagree with you. And he should. I would love to see them play again together but I wouldn’t blame him for telling Mick to shove his drumsticks up his Arse. Mick being the money grubbing Charlatan he is, he definitely doesn’t want the FM legacy ending on the current note

[sue]

Do you really think that Lindsey would go back NOW? I hope he doesn't, because they ruined the end of the band when they fired him.

I hope he tells them to shove it straight up their arses!

I can see this happening,
The great reunion, I mean.
All forgiven, the return into the fold, etc etc.
They would all see it as a fitting end.

[dreamsunwind]

Its so weird. Stevie used to go so out of her way to keep Fleetwood Mac together. She stayed when Lindsey left. She even stayed when Christine left. I would love to know when she made the change to no longer try to preserve Fleetwood Mac especially since Christine came back. I know she does not care for Lindsey but you would think she would be like... we suffered all this time but one last album and tour will have us go out in style.

And even so, like someone else said his fingerprints are all over her life/career/music-- something that she used to really value. I remember I once read a klonopin era interview with her where she was just say anything with no filter or emotion like she always did in those years and she was talking about lyrics from a song she liked and she made this casual off comment like "Oh I probably always liked that song because it reminded me of Lindsey" or something like that. So it's all just really strange that's for sure. I do really think her grief over Tom has affected her deeply and affected her headspace.

[Angel75]

Do you really think that Lindsey would go back NOW? I hope he doesn't, because they ruined the end of the band when they fired him.

I hope he tells them to shove it straight up their arses!

I agree. I really don't think he will want to go back.... EVER. If the band is going to be so petty and were not prepared to meet him halfway with his duo tour plans then why should he be the bigger person and be sucked back into the drama. He doesn't need the money so he is not motivated by that. And the fact he is still being creative and I think will receive a huge amount of appreciation and respect from his fans on his next solo tour....all his career/musical/creative needs will now be met without them.

[Storms123]

[QUOTE=Angel75;1229858]I agree. I really don't think he will want to go back.... EVER. If the band is going to be so petty and were not prepared to meet him halfway with his duo tour plans then why should he be the bigger person and be sucked back into the drama. He doesn't need the money so he is not motivated by that. And the fact he is still being creative and I think will receive a huge amount of appreciation and respect from his fans on his next solo tour....all his career/musical/creative needs will now be met without them


If he were to agree to it, it would be along the lines of preserving the legacy, which he seems to be most upset/bothered by

[SteveMacD]

I can see this happening,
The great reunion, I mean.
All forgiven, the return into the fold, etc etc.
They would all see it as a fitting end.

And a really big bag of money.

[dreamsunwind]

Oh I don’t disagree with you. And he should. I would love to see them play again together but I wouldn’t blame him for telling Mick to shove his drumsticks up his Arse. Mick being the money grubbing Charlatan he is, he definitely doesn’t want the FM legacy ending on the current note

I would love for there to be a reunion again but I can't imagine it happening. Even if they can emotionally move past the damage that's been done with this to give it one last go, they're just too old, time isn't on their side here.

[Neal]

Its so weird. Stevie used to go so out of her way to keep Fleetwood Mac together. She stayed when Lindsey left. She even stayed when Christine left. I would love to know when she made the change to no longer try to preserve Fleetwood Mac especially since Christine came back. I know she does not care for Lindsey but you would think she would be like... we suffered all this time but one last album and tour will have us go out in style.

I think this would be too close to accepting her own pending mortality, so she's not thinking in terms of endings/legacies, or going out at all. :distress:

[DreamIsOver]

Mick was a guest on the debut episode of Volume West on Sirius XM Channel 106. It's on demand on the Sirius XM app too.

The interview doesn't break any new information on what went down with Lindsey but Mick says that rehearsals start in August. He said he was recently with Stevie and Mike Campbell and after they ran through all the songs they want to play - including Stevie "threatening" to sing "Black Magic Woman" - they think the show may run close to 3 hours. He also said they are gonna try to work up a couple new songs - he referred to them as "calling cards" - to release before the tour.

[SteveMacD]

Great. As if EP wasn’t desperate enough, now we’re getting a digital single and b-side. Better than nothing, but still…

It’s been the most frustrating thing about this band since 1990, but why can’t this band just get its sh*t together?

[dreamsunwind]

Mick was a guest on the debut episode of Volume West on Sirius XM Channel 106. It's on demand on the Sirius XM app too.

The interview doesn't break any new information on what went down with Lindsey but Mick says that rehearsals start in August. He said he was recently with Stevie and Mike Campbell and after they ran through all the songs they want to play - including Stevie "threatening" to sing "Black Magic Woman" - they think the show may run close to 3 hours. He also said they are gonna try to work up a couple new songs - he referred to them as "calling cards" - to release before the tour.

AKA no album. Maybe like the 2013 EP 2.0 but no album. How surprising (not) :rolleyes:

[elle]

AKA no album. Maybe like the 2013 EP 2.0 but no album. How surprising (not) :rolleyes:

ha i was just thinking the same! we are down from an album to a couple of songs already!

incidentally, i think LB called Sad Angel / Miss Fantasy a "calling card" back in 2012 / 2013, when it was still supposed to be just 2 songs (before Stevie demanded to turn it into EP). Mick cannot even come up with his own phrasing, has to steal that from LB too.

[Storms123]

ha i was just thinking the same! we are down from an album to a couple of songs already!

incidentally, i think LB called Sad Angel / Miss Fantasy a "calling card" back in 2012 / 2013, when it was still supposed to be just 2 songs (before Stevie demanded to turn it into EP). Mick cannot even come up with his own phrasing, has to steal that from LB too.



Because he's a charlatan. Willing to bet--the "calling card" never happens either. trying to whet peoples whistles who've been clamoring for new FM music and haven't gotten it.

[Storms123]

Mick was a guest on the debut episode of Volume West on Sirius XM Channel 106. It's on demand on the Sirius XM app too.

The interview doesn't break any new information on what went down with Lindsey but Mick says that rehearsals start in August. He said he was recently with Stevie and Mike Campbell and after they ran through all the songs they want to play - including Stevie "threatening" to sing "Black Magic Woman" - they think the show may run close to 3 hours. He also said they are gonna try to work up a couple new songs - he referred to them as "calling cards" - to release before the tour.

So not only does Christine NOT get a say in voting Lindsey out, she doesn't get a say on what she actually has to sing?

[sasja]

So not only does Christine NOT get a say in voting Lindsey out, she doesn't get a say on what she actually has to sing?

:] Run for the hills, Christine, run for the hills!!! :]

[dreamsunwind]

So not only does Christine NOT get a say in voting Lindsey out, she doesn't get a say on what she actually has to sing?

Funny enough Black Magic Woman makes sense since it's one of the only pre-BN Mac songs that most of their audience might actually be familiar with. But they'll all know it as Santana song! :laugh:

[Storms123]

Funny enough Black Magic Woman makes sense since it's one of the only pre-BN Mac songs that most of their audience might actually be familiar with. But they'll all know it as Santana song! :laugh:

They will totally think it's a Santana cover--but I actually think Stevie's voice could do it justice.

[Sugar Mouse]

Great. As if EP wasn’t desperate enough, now we’re getting a digital single and b-side. Better than nothing, but still…

It’s been the most frustrating thing about this band since 1990, but why can’t this band just get its sh*t together?

As I posted previously, my source told me that the band hopes to record an EP with 2-3 songs. The hope is that it will have one Stevie song, one Christine song, and one Neil Finn song. They've booked time in a Los Angeles studio to write and record the songs.

[dreamsunwind]

They will totally think it's a Santana cover--but I actually think Stevie's voice could do it justice.

Really? I feel like that song needs a very smooth, slick voice. Stevie's voice right now is anything but smooth and slick lol.

[SteveMacD]

They will totally think it's a Santana cover--but I actually think Stevie's voice could do it justice.

I thought John poo-pooed doing BMW in a 1987 exactly for that reason, which is why they did the similar “I Loved Another Woman” instead.

[Storms123]

Really? I feel like that song needs a very smooth, slick voice. Stevie's voice right now is anything but smooth and slick lol.
There's something "gravely" in the melody and her voice... I would be curious. I think she would do it justice, quite frankly over Neil.

I don't mean to go back on my own reply, but I thought of this after I posted---I think most of these "deep cuts" will wind up getting scrapped a few shows in anyway, when they realize folks are running for the bathroom and beer lines. The audience for the show is going to expect a greatest hits tour.

[SteveMacD]

There's something "gravely" in the melody and her voice... I would be curious. I think she would do it justice, quite frankly over Neil.

See, I’ve been saying that about “Hypnotized” for a while. BMW, not so much, especially if the actual lyrics are factored in. However, this…

http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/album_review/black-magic-woman-19761021/fleetwoodmac-blackmagicwoman-lp-1359042071.jpg

[SteveMacD]

I think most of these "deep cuts" will wind up getting scrapped a few shows in anyway, when they realize folks are running for the bathroom and beer lines. The audience for the show is going to expect a greatest hits tour.

I don’t think so for this one. The songs they are talking about are known by enough fans that I don’t think it’s going to be like that. “Station Man” is the most obscure one they’ve mentioned, and that would probably be very early in the set. I could see SYLM, Station Man, and The Chain leading the setlist.

[Storms123]

[QUOTE=SteveMacD;1229888]I don’t think so for this one. The songs they are talking about are known by enough fans that I don’t think it’s going to be like that. “Station Man” is the most obscure one they’ve mentioned, and that would probably be very early in the set. I could see SYLM, Station Man, and The Chain leading the setlist.[/QUOTE

3 of my faves, although I am struggling to "hear" Neil on "The Chain". It will be interesting. I saw 24KG 4 times, and each time, even the Stevie die-hards were scratching their heads with some of the stuff she pulled out. This message board is so entrenched in the drama, we are expecting something different, but those folks that have no idea Lindsey won't be there (and I am sure there are a lot) may struggle.. Time will tell--it's going to be an interesting fall for sure!

[gldstwmn]

holy sh*t, I leave for a few days and I come back to find out KellyAnne Conway is a Fleetwood Mac fan & taking to their defense on this board...

I think it's Sara Huckabee Sanders. :lol:

[dreamsunwind]

[QUOTE=SteveMacD;1229888]I don’t think so for this one. The songs they are talking about are known by enough fans that I don’t think it’s going to be like that. “Station Man” is the most obscure one they’ve mentioned, and that would probably be very early in the set. I could see SYLM, Station Man, and The Chain leading the setlist.[/QUOTE

3 of my faves, although I am struggling to "hear" Neil on "The Chain". It will be interesting. I saw 24KG 4 times, and each time, even the Stevie die-hards were scratching their heads with some of the stuff she pulled out. This message board is so entrenched in the drama, we are expecting something different, but those folks that have no idea Lindsey won't be there (and I am sure there are a lot) may struggle.. Time will tell--it's going to be an interesting fall for sure!

I'm not going but if I was and I heard the opening lines of The Chain I would (hypothetically) throw tomatoes. There's no point in doing that song anymore.
And personally I think any pre-BN era songs except Oh Well and BMW will all eventually get dropped. They just aren't well known enough for most of the audience.

[SteveMacD]

3 of my faves, although I am struggling to "hear" Neil on "The Chain".

Especially since CBS talked over the video from Stevie’s phone…:mad:

It will be interesting. I saw 24KG 4 times, and each time, even the Stevie die-hards were scratching their heads with some of the stuff she pulled out.

But, none of the songs FM are talking about weren’t either staples of the set during the early Rumours era or weren’t hits in Europe during the early years. They’re much less obscure than what Stevie did. BTW, I will give Stevie credit for stepping out of her comfort zone with setlists and wanting the band to do the same. I’m just sad they couldn’t find a balance between brand new, very distant old, and in-between with the Rumours band.

[SteveMacD]

I'm not going but if I was and I heard the opening lines of The Chain I would (hypothetically) throw tomatoes. There's no point in doing that song anymore.


No worse than 87-95… Or, 98-13 if we’re being puritanical.

And personally I think any pre-BN era songs except Oh Well and BMW will all eventually get dropped. They just aren't well known enough for most of the audience.

Really? You don’t think something like “Rattlesnake Shake” couldn’t hold an audience’s attention as well as “I’m So Afraid” during a set? I became a fan in 1987 when I was 13, and “Rattlesnake Shake” was a very early standout, like on the first listen. And, you don’t think there are enough people who remember “Hypnotized” now? The audience is very mixed at shows. A lot of people will know those songs.

[dreamsunwind]

No worse than 87-95… Or, 98-13 if we’re being puritanical.



Really? You don’t think something like “Rattlesnake Shake” couldn’t hold an audience’s attention as well as “I’m So Afraid” during a set? I became a fan in 1987 when I was 13, and “Rattlesnake Shake” was a very early standout, like on the first listen. And, you don’t think there are enough people who remember “Hypnotized” now? The audience is very mixed at shows. A lot of people will know those songs.

I think there's a big difference between someone leaving on their own for valid reasons (and in Christine's case) giving their blessing to the band. But pushing someone out is 'breaking the chain'.

And no I don't think so. At least where I live, their shows are FILLED with a lot of people in their 20s who bought Rumours on vinyl at Urban Outfitters and saw Stevie on American Horror Story. Those people don't even know I'm So Afraid, I've seen it with my own two eyes. They sing along to Dreams, Landslide, Go Your Own Way, Seven Wonders (thanks to AHS) and the really famous songs. But even songs like Say You Love Me, So Afraid etc they literally don't even know the lyrics. It's not a secret that the pre-BN era is not that well known to most people in the US at least today as it is to the megafans on this board. If the only people who bought tickets to FM concerts today were the fans who have been there since the beginning they'd be playing to barely filled arenas. It's not a matter of remembering as it is that most of these people are fans of the Rumours lineup. They just don't really listen to anything beside the Rumours lineup.

[SteveMacD]

I think there's a big difference between someone leaving on their own for valid reasons (and in Christine's case) giving their blessing to the band. But pushing someone out is 'breaking the chain'

Well, to be fair, the lyric is “I can still hear you saying YOU would never break the chain,” NOT “WE won’t break the chain.” Technically, Lindsey broke the lyric in 1987…


And no I don't think so. At least where I live, their shows are FILLED with a lot of people in their 20s who bought Rumours on vinyl at Urban Outfitters and saw Stevie on American Horror Story. Those people don't even know I'm So Afraid, I've seen it with my own two eyes. They sing along to Dreams, Landslide, Go Your Own Way, Seven Wonders (thanks to AHS) and the really famous songs. But even songs like Say You Love Me, So Afraid etc they literally don't even know the lyrics. It's not a secret that the pre-BN era is not that well known to most people in the US at least today as it is to the megafans on this board. If the only people who bought tickets to FM concerts today were the fans who have been there since the beginning they'd be playing to barely filled arenas. It's not a matter of remembering as it is that most of these people are fans of the Rumours lineup. They just don't really listen to anything beside the Rumours lineup.

Okay, but all of the video I’ve seen of Stevie’s recent tour, “Crying In The Night” got a lot of applause, and that’s been out of print for how long? As with the return of Christine, I think people underestimate this band. Those early songs mixed with the regular classics will make for an interesting set.

[dreamsunwind]

Well, to be fair, the lyric is “I can still hear you saying YOU would never break the chain,” NOT “WE won’t break the chain.” Technically, Lindsey broke the lyric in 1987…



Okay, but all of the video I’ve seen of Stevie’s recent tour, “Crying In The Night” got a lot of applause, and that’s been out of print for how long? As with the return of Christine, I think people underestimate this band. Those early songs mixed with the regular classics will make for an interesting set.

To me there's just something hypocritical about a group of people who pushed one of their members out to be singing a song that was written about all of them NOT breaking the chain. To me, the meaning of the song is lost now. That's just my perspective.

And when I saw Stevie, Crying in the Night was one of the quietest moments of the show. People clapped and cheered as they did for everything but when she actually sang it there was a very visible difference in the audience during it versus during songs like Dreams, Stop Dragging My Heart Around etc. In general I do believe most of the concert-goers mostly just want to hear Rumours and the obvious other hits but you're right, anything is possible. Maybe even if they don't know the songs, they'll like them.

[TheWildHeart67]

Perhaps it would be more helpful to the conversation if each person posts what they've think happened. I've already done that but few of you have. Will be good to have it on record.

Sugar Mouse, you have way too much free time on your hands.

[HomerMcvie]

Okay, but all of the video I’ve seen of Stevie’s recent tour, “Crying In The Night” got a lot of applause, and that’s been out of print for how long? As with the return of Christine, I think people underestimate this band. Those early songs mixed with the regular classics will make for an interesting set.

As much as Christine was always my favorite, she doesn't have much voice left these days, or seemingly, much in playing chops.

And I'm not saying that Lindsey had much range left, either, BUT, I hope too much of the show isn't Neil and the backup singers.

$tevie Nick$ Fleetwood Mac Revue, coming soon to a bar near you...TRY THE FAJITAS!!!

[TheWildHeart67]

Sue, they are getting way too far up in age to prolong a final "Final 5 fireflies" Tour, after this faux FM tour plays out I'm afraid.

[FM77]

For the past several years, the fighting over set lists hasn’t been so much about digging into the catalogue as much as it was about “who”was going to have a “hit” or showcase song cut to accommodate older, lesser known songs. Was Lindsey going to cut Big Love to do Rattlesnake Shake? No. Same for Stevie.

Stevie also got some vocal/stage breaks with LB doing I’m So Afraid, Never Going Back Again, Big Love. Not sure how that will work with Neil and Mike.

I wonder if Chris will do Songbird again. I hope so but it was a bit shakey at times, even with LB on stage with her.

[dreamsunwind]

For the past several years, the fighting over set lists hasn’t been so much about digging into the catalogue as much as it was about “who”was going to have a “hit” or showcase song cut to accommodate older, lesser known songs. Was Lindsey going to cut Big Love to do Rattlesnake Shake? No. Same for Stevie.

Now THAT makes sense.
What exactly would Stevie's showcase songs be then? Lindsey's are the obvious guitar-y ones. Stevie performs all her songs more or less the same way now due to obvious vocal reasons. Maybe GDW because of her little dance?

[SteveMacD]

Stevie also got some vocal/stage breaks with LB doing I’m So Afraid, Never Going Back Again, Big Love. Not sure how that will work with Neil and Mike.

Rattlesnake Shake, Oh Well, Man Of The World…

[sue]

Sue, they are getting way too far up in age to prolong a final "Final 5 fireflies" Tour, after this faux FM tour plays out I'm afraid.

I know, that this is the end.
And deep down I know, after all the s**t that’s gone down, it would not
be right.
But just a teeny weeny part of me hopes to see Rumours 5 one more time.
Sad I know.

[Macfan4life]

If the 5 reunited again for a final tour it would be crazy. The collateral damage to "new members" who were told they were permanently part of the band. I guess they would be treated like Rick and Billy, tossed to the curb when the convenience and novelty wore off.

[mitzo]

[QUOTE=SteveMacD;1229888]I don’t think so for this one. The songs they are talking about are known by enough fans that I don’t think it’s going to be like that. “Station Man” is the most obscure one they’ve mentioned, and that would probably be very early in the set. I could see SYLM, Station Man, and The Chain leading the setlist.[/QUOTE

3 of my faves, although I am struggling to "hear" Neil on "The Chain". It will be interesting. I saw 24KG 4 times, and each time, even the Stevie die-hards were scratching their heads with some of the stuff she pulled out. This message board is so entrenched in the drama, we are expecting something different, but those folks that have no idea Lindsey won't be there (and I am sure there are a lot) may struggle.. Time will tell--it's going to be an interesting fall for sure!

The 24KG show I attended I was surrounded by hipsterish kids who sang along to Belle Fleur, danced to Starshine, and cheered wildly to the opening bars on Moonlight.:shrug:

[gldstwmn]

Especially since CBS talked over the video from Stevie’s phone…:mad:


Stevie doesn't have a phone. :p

[lennonfan]

Sue, they are getting way too far up in age to prolong a final "Final 5 fireflies" Tour, after this faux FM tour plays out I'm afraid.

I know, that this is the end.
And deep down I know, after all the s**t that’s gone down, it would not
be right.
But just a teeny weeny part of me hopes to see Rumours 5 one more time.
Sad I know.[/QUOTE]


I'm gonna blow this up with just one name:
Tony Bennett.
isn't he like 90 and still out there? and then there's:
Quincy Jones, Burt Bacharach:).... and Sir's Paul and Mick are still kickin' it and they're even older.....
so Tony is 90...that means they have 15 years to go..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[tabruns]

That $mirk sure made me think he was lying!

What's he supposed to say? Yeah, $he's an old witch, and got her bitchy way.

That's very harmful to hi$ brand.

You're boring.

[BombaySapphire3]

I know, that this is the end.
And deep down I know, after all the s**t that’s gone down, it would not
be right.
But just a teeny weeny part of me hopes to see Rumours 5 one more time.
Sad I know.


I'm gonna blow this up with just one name:
Tony Bennett.
isn't he like 90 and still out there? and then there's:
Quincy Jones, Burt Bacharach:).... and Sir's Paul and Mick are still kickin' it and they're even older.....
so Tony is 90...that means they have 15 years to go..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA[/QUOTE]

That Keith Richards is still alive and performing leads me to believe you may be on to something:laugh:

[sue]

I'm gonna blow this up with just one name:
Tony Bennett.
isn't he like 90 and still out there? and then there's:
Quincy Jones, Burt Bacharach:).... and Sir's Paul and Mick are still kickin' it and they're even older.....
so Tony is 90...that means they have 15 years to go..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That Keith Richards is still alive and performing leads me to believe you may be on to something:laugh:[/QUOTE]

😁😁😁😁
Tho it’s only a rumour Keef is actually alive !!!

[HomerMcvie]

You're boring.

Who asked you?

[Hawkeye]

[QUOTE=Storms123;1229889]

The 24KG show I attended I was surrounded by hipsterish kids who sang along to Belle Fleur, danced to Starshine, and cheered wildly to the opening bars on Moonlight.:shrug:

Same. Really the only thing that created mass exodus and gripes from the audience, myself included was the talking. Stevie and the band can play whatever the hell they want, as long as they play it well and are into it.

[louielouie2000]

I'm gonna blow this up with just one name:
Tony Bennett.
isn't he like 90 and still out there? and then there's:
Quincy Jones, Burt Bacharach:).... and Sir's Paul and Mick are still kickin' it and they're even older.....
so Tony is 90...that means they have 15 years to go..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I’ve been saying the same thing for years- there are so many performers who have continued into their late 80s and even into their 90s. Tony Bennett, BB King, Pete Seger, etc. I think as long as Mick is physically able, he’ll keep FM a touring band, regardless of who’s in it. And you know Stevie will never ever be able to stay off the road, either. They may not always do multi-year world tours, but I firmly believe the band will continue until it physically can’t. Don’t ever forecast the demise of Fleetwood Mac- they’ve gone through absolutely insane stuff and have always kept coming back for more.

[SteveMacD]

Don’t ever forecast the demise of Fleetwood Mac- they’ve gone through absolutely insane stuff and have always kept coming back for more.

Their demise has been greatly exaggerated since 1970.

[BombaySapphire3]

Their demise has been greatly exaggerated since 1970.

Fleetwood Mac will die when Mick does who for better or worse is beginning to seem unkillable.:rolleyes:

[jmn3]

I agree with the comments saying that this band really won't die until Mick is dead or unable to perform anymore. But I just don't know if I can see the appeal of another 1997-esque reformation - at least not at the levels of success or notoriety that The Dance had. Personally, this firing of Lindsey has sucked away what little desire I had left to see these guys perform live again. I was too interested in being 16 when The Dance tour was going and not going to a concert with my parents. Saw the Buckingham/Nicks version several times and then much to mine (and everyone else's) surprise in 2014, got to see the Rumours 5 put on one hell of a show. Rhiannon lumbered and sputtered. Christine couldn't hit half the notes. GYOW's key was dropped about 10 times. But it was nonetheless, fantastic to see them.

But, I don't know that I even care anymore. I would've seen this "Farewell" tour with the five of them. However, the way that this entire Lindsey firing rolled out has soured me on seeing this cobbled together all star band. I'm trying to picture myself in my early to mid 40's having interest in going to see this reconciled group of 75-80 year olds croaking out 50 year old songs and I just don't see it. They're too old. Their fanbase is too old (yes, lots of generations at FM concerts...but be real, look around, there majority aren't 24 year old hipsters). Time is not on their side.

I know I don't speak for everyone, but for me, after the stunts of 2018, the bloom is off the rose. If they ever reconciled, I am highly unlikely to bother.

[Angel75]

Fleetwood Mac will die when Mick does who for better or worse is beginning to seem unkillable.:rolleyes:

That made me laugh out loud....he's like Rasputin...but not like the lover of the Russian queen, the gypsy one apparently ( I won't give her the dignity of being called the Queen of Rock and Roll as I am not so sure she deserves that title anymore)

[Storms123]

I agree with the comments saying that this band really won't die until Mick is dead or unable to perform anymore. But I just don't know if I can see the appeal of another 1997-esque reformation - at least not at the levels of success or notoriety that The Dance had. Personally, this firing of Lindsey has sucked away what little desire I had left to see these guys perform live again. I was too interested in being 16 when The Dance tour was going and not going to a concert with my parents. Saw the Buckingham/Nicks version several times and then much to mine (and everyone else's) surprise in 2014, got to see the Rumours 5 put on one hell of a show. Rhiannon lumbered and sputtered. Christine couldn't hit half the notes. GYOW's key was dropped about 10 times. But it was nonetheless, fantastic to see them.

But, I don't know that I even care anymore. I would've seen this "Farewell" tour with the five of them. However, the way that this entire Lindsey firing rolled out has soured me on seeing this cobbled together all star band. I'm trying to picture myself in my early to mid 40's having interest in going to see this reconciled group of 75-80 year olds croaking out 50 year old songs and I just don't see it. They're too old. Their fanbase is too old (yes, lots of generations at FM concerts...but be real, look around, there majority aren't 24 year old hipsters). Time is not on their side.

I know I don't speak for everyone, but for me, after the stunts of 2018, the bloom is off the rose. If they ever reconciled, I am highly unlikely to bother.


And that's the legacy Lindsey was alluding to, and for many, the 2018 drama has done just that....killed it for many.. I am one of them. But I would kill to see them all one last time. If I only appreciated Neward 2015 was it......well May have partied harder with them. That was the night Lindsey waltzed with Stevie....

[sodascouts]

I too hope both Stevie and Lindsey can swallow their pride and that the Rumours 5 can come back together one last time. The incredible music they make together is bigger than personal conflicts, and re-establishing Fleetwood Mac's legacy is more important than whatever private gratification they get from holding grudges.

In the end, forgiveness is better for the heart than bitterness.

I think both Finn and Campbell know deep down that such a thing could happen, and they would be out if it did. Campbell even hinted at understanding this might not be a "forever" gig when he said that this was his priority "for now" or something like that in the CBS interview.

[sue]

I too hope both Stevie and Lindsey can swallow their pride and that the Rumours 5 can come back together one last time. The incredible music they make together is bigger than personal conflicts, and re-establishing Fleetwood Mac's legacy is more important than whatever private gratification they get from holding grudges.

In the end, forgiveness is better for the heart than bitterness.

I think both Finn and Campbell know deep down that such a thing could happen, and they would be out if it did. Campbell even hinted at understanding this might not be a "forever" gig when he said that this was his priority "for now" or something like that in the CBS interview.


I think this could happen, once Stevie has done her grieving for Tom, she will get her perspective back, and see what a waste not to end their 43 year legacy on a right note.
And not this s***e that we have now.

[elle]

I too hope both Stevie and Lindsey can swallow their pride and that the Rumours 5 can come back together one last time. The incredible music they make together is bigger than personal conflicts, and re-establishing Fleetwood Mac's legacy is more important than whatever private gratification they get from holding grudges.

I do think that, however much some of us may not want him to, Lindsey is very much in the mindset of legacy and reconciliation being more important than grudges. He has been seemingly in that mindset for a while, plus he’s known these people forever and while some of us may realize their misgivings and flaws just now, pretty sure he’s been aware of them forever, same as they’ve been of whatever his might be.

I would really hate for LB to waste any more time w FM if they’ll be in the time wasting state of mind they basically have been in since the Dance. I’d rather he uses the time he has much wiser and more productive. But I can’t do anything about it. And I do hope he takes as many opportunities as he can and was happy to hear him talk about that back at that fundraiser.

[juniper]

I too hope both Stevie and Lindsey can swallow their pride and that the Rumours 5 can come back together one last time. The incredible music they make together is bigger than personal conflicts, and re-establishing Fleetwood Mac's legacy is more important than whatever private gratification they get from holding grudges.

As much as I would like to believe in some kind of reunion, it’s hard for me to imagine them ever touring together again (maybe a one-off down the road). Not surprisingly, I think this is nearly all about the SN/LB dynamic (with Mick just the guy who prefers touring to real life, and does whatever to make that happen), and I think it has everything to do with a huge psychological aftershock stemming from the death of Tom Petty. More than ever before, they may really feel their mortality, feel fear, feel protective of the ‘time they have left.’ I know John had a scare, but has basically recovered. But the death of a close friend, who was their age (even a little younger) and who shared their lifestyle? That has to loom large, with at least two possible aftereffects:
First, it would seem natural that one might tend to circle the wagons and draw nearer to family and loved ones. Stevie, with no husband or children, might be naturally drawn to her ‘family’ – her songs and her bandmates. But LB’s situation is very different; he has a family of his own, and might not share that feeling; even though he was willing to tour with FM, it could be that he would turn a bit more inward, think on smaller-scale terms – wife, kids, small machine.
Second, it also would seem natural that one might decide to make the most of the time they have left to pursue exactly what makes them happy and fulfilled, and let nothing stand in the way.
So it seems that, unfortunately, SN and LB had different ideas about the latter. SN seemed to want to get on the road with her ‘family ‘and her music right away; that would make her most happy. LB, although I blv he cares a great deal about the band and its legacy, wanted to tour his solo music right away; that would make him most happy.
In the face of dissent between SN/LB about how to work this out – regardless of what those details were – it’s not hard to understand what could have happened. There was no way SN was going to ‘side against’ the band/her family or wait one minute longer than she had to to get on with the tour and music. On the other hand, there was no way Lindsey was going to ‘side with’ any plan that did not allow him space for his solo work, the thing that would make him the most happy right now. I’m sure this was not an easy spot for either of them to be in; I’m not on board with some of the demonization of the parties involved that I’ve read on this and other threads. In the past, these disagreements may have launched arguments, tears and drama, but it could be that Tom’s death caused them each to simply draw a line in the sand, and so something had to give.
Perhaps LB just felt he had no choice but to put his own scheduling desires first; there was no way he was going to compromise (again) for the band – not at the expense of doing what is important for him personally – his own music. Perhaps SN felt that she had no choice either – she wants the tour, now, and wants to keep close to her musical family.
I really do think that this is a significant, terminal split for them. Their relationship had devolved into just a musical/onstage one anyway of course, and with SN huddling with the others and bringing in Neil and Mike so quickly, she has even replaced LB as far as even that relationship, so what’s left? I mean, they never did get married, but with this, I think they finally, finally, got divorced; each one doing what they feel they need to do with their precious time.
It makes me listen to a lot of LB’s lyrics – even earlier lyrics – with fresh ears; some of them resonate in a totally new way, interestingly. Last, it makes me hopeful for whatever he is thinking when he talks about future opportunities – don’t get me wrong, I’m sad about the state of FM, but I’m making lemonade and really looking forward to new solo LB words and music – I want to hear what he has to say next-

(Sorry long post! I've been lurking a bit since the big news - should post more and lurk less :))

[button-lip]

As much as I would like to believe in some kind of reunion, it’s hard for me to imagine them ever touring together again (maybe a one-off down the road). Not surprisingly, I think this is nearly all about the SN/LB dynamic (with Mick just the guy who prefers touring to real life, and does whatever to make that happen), and I think it has everything to do with a huge psychological aftershock stemming from the death of Tom Petty. More than ever before, they may really feel their mortality, feel fear, feel protective of the ‘time they have left.’

First, it would seem natural that one might tend to circle the wagons and draw nearer to family and loved ones. Stevie, with no husband or children, might be naturally drawn to her ‘family’ – her songs and her bandmates. But LB’s situation is very different; he has a family of his own, and might not share that feeling; even though he was willing to tour with FM, it could be that he would turn a bit more inward, think on smaller-scale terms – wife, kids, small machine.
Second, it also would seem natural that one might decide to make the most of the time they have left to pursue exactly what makes them happy and fulfilled, and let nothing stand in the way.
So it seems that, unfortunately, SN and LB had different ideas about the latter. SN seemed to want to get on the road with her ‘family ‘and her music right away; that would make her most happy. LB, although I blv he cares a great deal about the band and its legacy, wanted to tour his solo music right away; that would make him most happy.
In the face of dissent between SN/LB about how to work this out – regardless of what those details were – it’s not hard to understand what could have happened. There was no way SN was going to ‘side against’ the band/her family or wait one minute longer than she had to to get on with the tour and music. On the other hand, there was no way Lindsey was going to ‘side with’ any plan that did not allow him space for his solo work, the thing that would make him the most happy right now. I’m sure this was not an easy spot for either of them to be in; I’m not on board with some of the demonization of the parties involved that I’ve read on this and other threads. In the past, these disagreements may have launched arguments, tears and drama, but it could be that Tom’s death caused them each to simply draw a line in the sand, and so something had to give.
Perhaps LB just felt he had no choice but to put his own scheduling desires first; there was no way he was going to compromise (again) for the band – not at the expense of doing what is important for him personally – his own music. Perhaps SN felt that she had no choice either – she wants the tour, now, and wants to keep close to her musical family.
I really do think that this is a significant, terminal split for them. Their relationship had devolved into just a musical/onstage one anyway of course, and with SN huddling with the others and bringing in Neil and Mike so quickly, she has even replaced LB as far as even that relationship, so what’s left? I mean, they never did get married, but with this, I think they finally, finally, got divorced; each one doing what they feel they need to do with their precious time.
It makes me listen to a lot of LB’s lyrics – even earlier lyrics – with fresh ears; some of them resonate in a totally new way, interestingly. Last, it makes me hopeful for whatever he is thinking when he talks about future opportunities – don’t get me wrong, I’m sad about the state of FM, but I’m making lemonade and really looking forward to new solo LB words and music – I want to hear what he has to say next-

(Sorry long post! I've been lurking a bit since the big news - should post more and lurk less :))

I can't say I'm 100% sure they won't tour together ever again. But yes, I also believe this was/is ultimately all about Stevie and Lindsey.

They finally came to a point in their lives where they want totally different things and that must made Stevie extremely sad. I don't know if this was a "not siding against her family" thing, but more like a "searching for Lindsey's attention" thing.

And in the meantime, Lindsey, instead of paying attention, was focused on his solo album and tour. Stevie had a choice. Of course she had a choice. But when she couldn't get what she wanted from him, she flipped and threw an ultimatum to Mick.

We really don't know how many times this kind of disagreements took place between them during all this years, so I don't know if this divorce is final or not. It looks that way, but then you have Lindsey's wife liking tweets about how incomplete the band is without Lindsey instead of giving clues about his husband's solo tour. So I'm inclined to think his family wants a final farewell tour for Lindsey with the band. The thing is: does Stevie want him again in the band? :rolleyes:

[bombaysaffires]

I honestly don't buy that Tom's death had a lot to do with what went on in the band. It makes a good story after the fact, but I think whatever went down in NYC had everything to do with the decades-long sh&t between Stevie and Lindsey and Tom's death, in that moment of decision, had not a thing to do with it. I don't even think it was part of it in the sense that she might have taken a different perspective on things since his death.... because honestly ,the lesson to take from Tom's death is that there's MORE to life than just touring.

Touring, and the commitment to finish his tour at all costs, is what killed Tom. It's a noble idea, don't be weak, gotta finish the tour, think of the fans, etc. etc. , but in the end it's what led to his death. Even Stevie said so at Musicares... that Tom SHOULD have put himself in a hospital or whatever it took to take care of his hip that was giving him so much pain that he was taking all that medication. So if Tom's death taught her anything it should have taught her that relationships are what matter, that everyone's been touring FOREVER and missing a few shows or cutting a tour short is NOT A BIG DEAL IN THE BIGGER PICTURE OF LIFE. Tom had talked of wanting to finish this tour and just spend time with his granddaughter. Well now that isn't gonna happen, and that little girl isn't going to have all the experiences and great memories with her grandfather that she would have had.

The lesson to be taken from his death is that you can drop dead at any point and you should spend the time with those you love having fun. It seems that to her that means touring. :shrug: Remember a few years ago when she was complaining that she hadn't spent anytime at home, and that she just wanted to get her little trailer up in Malibu and sit and watch the sunset on the water and hang with friends? What happened to that? She's so stuck in the grind of touring it's the only life she really knows anymore. I don't think she made her decision to issue an ultimatum about LB because she's in some deep grief about Tom, because the lesson to learn from Tom is that nothing matters more than the people you love-- not touring, not money, not business. He sacrificed his health for a tour, which ultimately cost him his life. The lesson is you can't take it with you. But she's gonna die trying apparently. :shrug:

[bombaysaffires]

I can't say I'm 100% sure they won't tour together ever again. But yes, I also believe this was/is ultimately all about Stevie and Lindsey.

They finally came to a point in their lives where they want totally different things and that must made Stevie extremely sad. I don't know if this was a "not siding against her family" thing, but more like a "searching for Lindsey's attention" thing.

And in the meantime, Lindsey, instead of paying attention, was focused on his solo album and tour. Stevie had a choice. Of course she had a choice. But when she couldn't get what she wanted from him, she flipped and threw an ultimatum to Mick.

We really don't know how many times this kind of disagreements took place between them during all this years, so I don't know if this divorce is final or not. It looks that way, but then you have Lindsey's wife liking tweets about how incomplete the band is without Lindsey instead of giving clues about his husband's solo tour. So I'm inclined to think his family wants a final farewell tour for Lindsey with the band. The thing is: does Stevie want him again in the band? :rolleyes:



I don't think Stevie was wanting his attention and he wasn't going to give it to her. :laugh:

I don't get the impression that Lindsey's family is saying they want a final reunion farewell tour either. :distress:

I think Stevie doesn't want to compromise anymore. What was it Mick said to Lindsey during Tusk? "Well that's what being in a band is and maybe you should be in a band anymore".....someone should tell that to Stevie.

[dreamsunwind]

I honestly don't buy that Tom's death had a lot to do with what went on in the band. It makes a good story after the fact, but I think whatever went down in NYC had everything to do with the decades-long sh&t between Stevie and Lindsey and Tom's death, in that moment of decision, had not a thing to do with it. I don't even think it was part of it in the sense that she might have taken a different perspective on things since his death.... because honestly ,the lesson to take from Tom's death is that there's MORE to life than just touring.

Touring, and the commitment to finish his tour at all costs, is what killed Tom. It's a noble idea, don't be weak, gotta finish the tour, think of the fans, etc. etc. , but in the end it's what led to his death. Even Stevie said so at Musicares... that Tom SHOULD have put himself in a hospital or whatever it took to take care of his hip that was giving him so much pain that he was taking all that medication. So if Tom's death taught her anything it should have taught her that relationships are what matter, that everyone's been touring FOREVER and missing a few shows or cutting a tour short is NOT A BIG DEAL IN THE BIGGER PICTURE OF LIFE. Tom had talked of wanting to finish this tour and just spend time with his granddaughter. Well now that isn't gonna happen, and that little girl isn't going to have all the experiences and great memories with her grandfather that she would have had.

The lesson to be taken from his death is that you can drop dead at any point and you should spend the time with those you love having fun. It seems that to her that means touring. :shrug: Remember a few years ago when she was complaining that she hadn't spent anytime at home, and that she just wanted to get her little trailer up in Malibu and sit and watch the sunset on the water and hang with friends? What happened to that? She's so stuck in the grind of touring it's the only life she really knows anymore. I don't think she made her decision to issue an ultimatum about LB because she's in some deep grief about Tom, because the lesson to learn from Tom is that nothing matters more than the people you love-- not touring, not money, not business. He sacrificed his health for a tour, which ultimately cost him his life. The lesson is you can't take it with you. But she's gonna die trying apparently. :shrug:

I think Tom's death totally had to do with it, but not in the way that you're describing. I don't think it impacted anyone's attitudes towards touring, etc. I just think that his death messed with her head. It was very sudden and unexpected and she was and probably still is totally heartbroken about it. She's someone who doesn't handle grief very well and I just think it messed with her perspective on things. Like she said now she wants to dance around her room every morning and not have a care in the world, I think his death influenced that because it made her think she needs to live the rest of her life being as 'happy' as she can because, exactly like she said in her own words in that interview, if that could happen to Tom it could happen to anyone. And so she thinks that not having to deal with the hassle of her up/down battle of the wills with Lindsey will play a part in giving her that happiness which is why she felt the need to bring that up in the interview. But if I know a single thing about Stevie Nicks, I am sure that she's gonna get out of that headspace eventually and regardless of what you know/believe/think her role in this was, she's gonna feel a deep regret that she let this happen.

[sue]

I think Tom's death totally had to do with it, but not in the way that you're describing. I don't think it impacted anyone's attitudes towards touring, etc. I just think that his death messed with her head. It was very sudden and unexpected and she was and probably still is totally heartbroken about it. She's someone who doesn't handle grief very well and I just think it messed with her perspective on things. Like she said now she wants to dance around her room every morning and not have a care in the world, I think his death influenced that because it made her think she needs to live the rest of her life being as 'happy' as she can because, exactly like she said in her own words in that interview, if that could happen to Tom it could happen to anyone. And so she thinks that not having to deal with the hassle of her up/down battle of the wills with Lindsey will play a part in giving her that happiness which is why she felt the need to bring that up in the interview. But if I know a single thing about Stevie Nicks, I am sure that she's gonna get out of that headspace eventually and regardless of what you know/believe/think her role in this was, she's gonna feel a deep regret that she let this happen.

Could also be the reason Lindsey is relatively quiet about the whole situation.
He also thinks it’s to do with her head being messed up, and knows she will regain her “composure”.

[AnthonyMI]

Listen to her speech at Musiccares. It was about Tom petty and hardly about Fleetwood Mac. She’s obsessed with being a heartbreak and already had her own great band.

[Lola]

Listen to her speech at Musiccares. It was about Tom petty and hardly about Fleetwood Mac. She’s obsessed with being a heartbreak and already had her own great band.

At the time I thought her extended comments about Tom were a little too much but I gave her a pass cause I knew she was grieving. I fully expected her to say something about Tom but not spend the majority of her time talking about him. Plus she talked about him on her tour so I figured she was still in that story telling mode. Just my opinion but I think her grief addled mind contributed to the situation. That does not in any way excuse her behavior. First thing I thought of was her marrying Robin's husband.

[sodascouts]

At the time I thought her extended comments about Tom were a little too much but I gave her a pass cause I knew she was grieving. I fully expected her to say something about Tom but not spend the majority of her time talking about him. Plus she talked about him on her tour so I figured she was still in that story telling mode. Just my opinion but I think her grief addled mind contributed to the situation. That does not in any way excuse her behavior. First thing I thought of was her marrying Robin's husband.

It only took a few months for her to realize marrying Kim Anderson was a mistake. I wonder how long it will be before she realizes that destroying her relationship with Lindsey and blowing apart the incomparable Rumours 5 was also a horrible mistake?

[Lola]

With slow ticket sales she might already be there! Just speculation but my guess is she/they're hoping sales pick up closer to the start of the tour. If not......

If Stevie assumed her fans would follow blindly she was wrong. I've always been a Stevie fan but this is beyond the pale.

[Storms123]

It only took a few months for her to realize marrying Kim Anderson was a mistake. I wonder how long it will be before she realizes that destroying her relationship with Lindsey and blowing apart the incomparable Rumours 5 was also a horrible mistake?

Have they/she been paying attention to ticket sales---this "farce" isn't catching on the way they hoped. Still early days but...Social media is a blessing and a curse. The "fans" know enough to be dangerous, and the press the band has done thus far isn't helping their cause........

[HomerMcvie]

It only took a few months for her to realize marrying Kim Anderson was a mistake. I wonder how long it will be before she realizes that destroying her relationship with Lindsey and blowing apart the incomparable Rumours 5 was also a horrible mistake?

She really thinks things through, doesn't she? :lol::lol::lol::mad:

[dreamsunwind]

Have they/she been paying attention to ticket sales---this "farce" isn't catching on the way they hoped. Still early days but...Social media is a blessing and a curse. The "fans" know enough to be dangerous, and the press the band has done thus far isn't helping their cause........

I'm sure they've caught on by now.
It's been weeks and the shows at the LA Forum are practically half empty. That NEVER happens, not at that venue.

[Lola]

I'm sure they've caught on by now.
It's been weeks and the shows at the LA Forum are practically half empty. That NEVER happens, not at that venue.

I've been looking at Chicago, Indy and Milwaukee periodically. (These are shows I'd ordinarily go to). They look pretty much the same as they did when tickets first went on sale.

[Storms123]

I'm sure they've caught on by now.
It's been weeks and the shows at the LA Forum are practically half empty. That NEVER happens, not at that venue.

MSG seems similar I think a lot of the ticket brokers gobbled tickets quickly and now try to resell for a kings ransom.
I am sure this is EXACTLY how Mick planned on their farewell tour going!

[Dr.Brown]

MSG seems similar I think a lot of the ticket brokers gobbled tickets quickly and now try to resell for a kings ransom.
I am sure this is EXACTLY how Mick planned on their farewell tour going!

Even casual fans won't appreciate the quintessential Fleetwood Mac "Rumours sound" they've come to expect being diluted by a new lineup. Lots of ticket scalpers who bought in early will definitely be forced to reduce their ticket prices.

Karma's a b, aint it? :D

[HomerMcvie]

Even casual fans won't appreciate the quintessential Fleetwood Mac "Rumours sound" they've come to expect being diluted by a new lineup. Lots of ticket scalpers who bought in early will definitely be forced to reduce their ticket prices.

Karma's a b, aint it? :D
It's about time the scalpers took a hit!

[Storms123]

Even casual fans won't appreciate the quintessential Fleetwood Mac "Rumours sound" they've come to expect being diluted by a new lineup. Lots of ticket scalpers who bought in early will definitely be forced to reduce their ticket prices.

Karma's a b, aint it? :D

LOL...Not going to pay $500.00 to hear a cover of "GYOW" or "World IS Turning"