Just Skimmed Through STORMS

[Lori40]

About 2 hours ago, Carol Ann Harris' book showed up on my doorstep. I think that it's probably a belated birthday present from my sister. For anyone who is interested, here's what I've learned so far, mind you, I have just skimmed through the book.




According to Carol Ann:
Lindsey was not too upset over his break up with Stevie
Carol Ann miscarried Lindsey's child
Lindsey twice asked Carol to marry him
Lindsey's music was always first in his life

I haven't read anything earth shattering, and I don't think that she portrays Lindsey as an abusive monster. There aren't a lot of pictures. They are all black and whites, and aren't the best quality, so I wouldn't buy this book for the pictures, if anyone was thinking about that. If anyone is interested, I can post a more complete review after I've read the book.

[danax6]

According to Carol Ann:
Lindsey was not too upset over his break up with Stevie
Yes, because their break-up was so amicable. :lol:

[Betsy]

About 2 hours ago, Carol Ann Harris' book showed up on my doorstep. I think that it's probably a belated birthday present from my sister. For anyone who is interested, here's what I've learned so far, mind you, I have just skimmed through the book.




According to Carol Ann:
Lindsey was not too upset over his break up with Stevie
Carol Ann miscarried Lindsey's child
Lindsey twice asked Carol to marry him
Lindsey's music was always first in his life

I haven't read anything earth shattering, and I don't think that she portrays Lindsey as an abusive monster. There aren't a lot of pictures. They are all black and whites, and aren't the best quality, so I wouldn't buy this book for the pictures, if anyone was thinking about that. If anyone is interested, I can post a more complete review after I've read the book.

It makes one wonder, why there was such a hubbub about it being published. Rumor was that it was to have been published 10 years ago but was blocked.

It sounds pretty tame. Did anyone read that Sandra Haliburton book on Stevie? Pretty awful (IMO) I hope that this one is better. But like a dummy I pre-ordered it from Amazon to see the photos (I am such a guppie) and now I read that the photos aren't the best quality.

Damn you Carol Ann. Couldn't you have afforded a decent camera instead of an instamatic??? or a Polaroid Swinger? :laugh:

[Kelly]

Lindsey wasn't that upset about his breakup with STevie?? Is that why he STILL claims to not have closure? :laugh: Those Tusk songs sound sort of bitter to me...........

Something doesn't add up Miss Carol Ann. :wavey:

Mine shipped out on the 26th. I was coerced into buying this trash. :lol:

[Raeven Skye]

According to Carol Ann:
Lindsey was not too upset over his break up with Stevie
Carol Ann miscarried Lindsey's child
Lindsey twice asked Carol to marry him
Lindsey's music was always first in his life


1) yeah...riiiight
2) possibly
3) big deal
4) no ****....

NEXT! hehehe :laugh:

[carol7lynn]

Ditto RaevenSkye.:] You said it all and quite accurately too.

CarolC

[Raeven Skye]

Ditto RaevenSkye.:] You said it all and quite accurately too.

CarolC

hehe...I want a TELL ALL book, damnit! No more messing around :blob1:
Seriously...I hope there's something moure juice-worthy in Storms, b/c I was sort-of looking forward to it.

[gldstwmn]

I didn't even realize there was a date set for release. Did you receive an advance copy?

[JazmenFlowers]

1 - I find it interesting that her book is named after a Stevie song

2 - from the overview above, it seems like she's saying "Stevie blah blah blah, he loved me more. see? he asked me to marry him twice. we were really serious. I was even preggers with his child. see? I matter."

[danax6]

2 - from the overview above, it seems like she's saying "Stevie blah blah blah, he loved me more. see? he asked me to marry him twice. we were really serious. I was even preggers with his child. see? I matter."I'm going to have to agree. I think she's trying to romanticize the whole relationship.

Who in their right mind is going to believe that first thing, that he wasn't upset about the breakup? I mean, even if you don't give one iota about the whole soap opera behind the band, that's something that almost can't be denied. For one thing, I can clearly remember him saying that the 'spectre of Stevie disabled several long-term relationships'. And even Kristen says she knows that he hadn't been in a good relationship since Stevie. :shrug:

[jbrownsjr]

this book is going to sell exactly -7 copies

[Tango]

Well, I think it will be more than 7 copies. ;) Perhaps members of the band will buy it (and deny buying it), former roadies, associates, etc. Whether one wants to believe what is written in this book, unlike the Sandra book, this one was written by someone who actually knew the band, lived with them and traveled with them. She may have some axes to grind, but at least it's her own first hand account. I have heard the pictures in Carol Ann's book are of poor quality, but fans won't buy it solely for the pictures.

[LINDSEY#1FAN]

I didn't buy the book - because I don't care what that woman has to say !!! :laugh:

[gypsysoul]

It won't be topping the bestseller list but I agree that a number of people will want to take a look at this book. There are very few accounts of this hugely successful era in American music so it is a record of that time by an insider. Plus if she mentions other bands and singers of the time too, they and their fans will want to read it.

If LB asked her to marry him not once but twice, why didn't it happen? She said on tv not so long ago she still loves him even after all this time and clearly has a need to go back to this period and relationship in her life so I can't see that she would have turned him down jmo

[goldie]

Make that 8 people, I pre-ordered it, too. It's to feed my FM information obsession.

[Michelle Daya]

maybe lb didn't let ca know the breakup was hard on him? for him to talk about an ex during a 7 year relationship would have been rude.

i do believe he asked her to marry him. remember the handwritten lyrics "gonna ask my baby to marry me?" that was written when he was with ca. why didn't it happen? well maybe she wasn't ready? she had issues at the time with coke & ultimately messed around with dennis wilson which i'm sure didn't set well in the relationship. that she lost a baby is so sad tho. honestly i don't get why everyone seems to dislike her so much. lb loved her & spent close to a decade with her. they split because lb couldn't deal with her habit & probably other things as well. that doesn't make her a bad person. & judging by what's in the book so far, to this day she's maintaining class by not mudslinging at lb.

but for anyone interested she's signing her books next month in la. think she'll sell more than 7 copies.

http://www.myspace.com/booksoup
(look at july 14 on calendar)
"carol ann harris presents and signs "storms, my life with lindsey buckingham'"

[carol7lynn]

I don't think the majority of fans "hate" her because she and Lindsey had a meaningful relationship that lasted 7 years, although granted there may be some. I don't hate her but I do find what she has done questionable; i.e., Writing a tell-all book twenty years later after Lindsey has married, fathered 3 children, and revived his solo career. It's not about her cashing in so much as it's about her selling-out in other words it's about her blatant betrayal of someone's trust. If you love someone you don't tell-all. She wasn't a member of the band so what she has to say is "second hand news!" :confused:

CarolC

[Michelle Daya]

I don't think the majority of fans "hate" her because she and Lindsey had a meaningful relationship that lasted 7 years, although granted there may be some. I don't hate her but I do find what she has done questionable; i.e., Writing a tell-all book twenty years later after Lindsey has married, fathered 3 children, and revived his solo career. It's not about her cashing in so much as it's about her selling-out in other words it's about her blatant betrayal of someone's trust. If you love someone you don't tell-all. She wasn't a member of the band so what she has to say is "second hand news!" :confused:

CarolC

i don't know but i think fame comes with a lot more than big bucks. from her perspective, fans are interested in the band & what they were doing at the time. it'll make her some cash, sure, but it doesn't sound like she's telling all. she wasn't a member of the band but short of them writing their own books (which mick did & some people discredited anyway) i think she was about as close to them as anyone could get. as far as betrayal, who knows what happened in that relationship. she & lb are no longer together so i doubt trust from either end even plays into it. he wrote and still performs go insane which is all about ca, not to mention the entire album. is that any different as songs are tell-alls in & of themselves? i doubt she felt a tremendous sense of privacy or trust when it was released. getting involved with a famous person has a price as that person can give out personal info through words or in this case, songs that you may not want to share with the world. being famous also has its price in that someone may do the same to you in some other way or artform. remember also lb talking about ca's drug habits & infidelities in interviews. not exactly not telling all. who started the ball rolling?

[Betsy]

... he wrote and still performs go insane which is all about ca, not to mention the entire album.

....remember also lb talking about ca's drug habits & infidelities in interviews. not exactly not telling all.

OK, so....I just fell off the turnip truck yesterday. Can you enlighten me on this?

So the song Go Insane is about Carol Ann? People had told me that one song about "Hey Little Girl, Leave a little Drug Alone" was about her, but didn't know Go Insane was. (Is that her on the back side of the LP sitting in the chair?)

I thought Go Insane was about Lindsey being obsessive.

Is there a thread that explains that song, that someone can direct me to?

[DJM]

i just skimmed a good part of the book. nothing she said really surprised me if it's all true. he's got an anger management problem and did a lot of drugs. she claims that he choaked her about 4 times. i didn't see anything written about stevie that was bad - in fact, she enjoyed talking to stevie many times. i did think the part about lindsey throwing up on dick clark's carpet on the night of the ama awards was kind of funny. it sounds like a crazy kind of life. i probably will read the entire book (but with a grain of salt).

[Michelle Daya]

OK, so....I just fell off the turnip truck yesterday. Can you enlighten me on this?

So the song Go Insane is about Carol Ann? People had told me that one song about "Hey Little Girl, Leave a little Drug Alone" was about her, but didn't know Go Insane was. (Is that her on the back side of the LP sitting in the chair?)

I thought Go Insane was about Lindsey being obsessive.

Is there a thread that explains that song, that someone can direct me to?

i believe the album including title song was dedicated to her & their breakup.

[Kelly]

Since when does dedicating an album to someone make every song on that album about them??? No way Go Insane is all about CA anyway. :shrug:


I don't hate the girl but he did support her long after their breakup and writing a tell all after he has become a father is a ****ty thing to do. No way to make it not ****ty no matter how you spin it. How is it going to look to Will and Leelee when they come upon this book ten years from now? Their dad tried to choke her up to four times? Come the F on. She is just trying to cash in on a relationship she had twenty plus years ago. Lindsey made it very clear on his BTM how he felt about the relationship too. He knew it was doomed but stayed in it for much longer than he should have. The spectre of Stevie ruined it.

[Chrislit18]

I thought it didnt come out until Jul 1???
:shrug:

Well, Ill probably get it to use for english next year [its alot more interesting to me, whether the facts are true or not than some novel about some random thing i could care less about ie the princess bride]. But its not as horrible as everyone expected?

[Betsy]

Lindsey made it very clear on his BTM how he felt about the relationship too. He knew it was doomed but stayed in it for much longer than he should have. The spectre of Stevie ruined it.

Hmmmm.....

Guess I better get me a copy of that Behind the Music. Do they show a picture of Carol Ann on that interview?

(Thanks Kelly and Michelle for your thoughts to my questions. I appreciate the added information. I don't know who this Carol Ann Harris even is...guess if I read the book, I will find out.)

[mgikallaroundme]

I'm not the least bit surprised Carol Ann had nothing bad to say about Stevie.

STORMS? :lol:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

[danax6]

I'm not the least bit surprised Carol Ann had nothing bad to say about Stevie.
Job well done. :laugh:

[danax6]

He knew it was doomed but stayed in it for much longer than he should have.Yes, he has said about both relationships with Carol Ann and Cheri that only the first year or so was good.

[Kelly]

I'm not the least bit surprised Carol Ann had nothing bad to say about Stevie.

STORMS? :lol:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg


And Lindsey tried to "choke her" on four different occassions. :o I KNEW she dug rough sex. :laugh:


(please no one go ape****....I know real choking is no joke)

[Sahara]

I don't hate the girl but he did support her long after their breakup and writing a tell all after he has become a father is a ****ty thing to do. No way to make it not ****ty no matter how you spin it. How is it going to look to Will and Leelee when they come upon this book ten years from now? Their dad tried to choke her up to four times? Come the F on. She is just trying to cash in on a relationship she had twenty plus years ago.

I absolutely agree -- it's a lousy thing to do at this stage in his life.

By the way, the naked girl on the back of Go Insane isn't her. Like I keep saying, it's me. :P

[Sahara]

2 - from the overview above, it seems like she's saying "Stevie blah blah blah, he loved me more. see? he asked me to marry him twice. we were really serious. I was even preggers with his child. see? I matter."

:nod: :nod:

[carol7lynn]

Phony as a $3 bill.:laugh: That's about right.:D

First of all, one poster above argued that turn about is fair play. Lindsey dissed Carol Ann in songs, so she is justified in telling tales out of school, as it were. I respectfully disagree. Why? Well, it's like this. Her revelations about his physical abuse/violence, self destructive drug usage and his lack of concern for/about his break-up with Stevie are not in the same category as L.B.'s observations about Ms. Harris' character flaws and their inability to get along.

Secondly, her motivation is not to be helpful but to be hurtful and if she makes a buck in the process all the better. If you truly care about someone you talk to them, not about them; especially after they willingly (i.e., There was no palimony law suit filed.) paid for your rehab and bought you a house (as he reportedly did) following their break-up. Did Ms. Harris reciprocate in kind? And, the answer is obviously no or she wouldn't be trying to make a buck now. She is a taker and a user like a lot of hangers on in any profession (but especially the entertainment industry) are. These people live vicariously through their artistic paramour. Their talent lies not in their god given talents but in their delusions through their illusions of grandeur.

And, lastly she was not in the band nor worked for or with the band so what she is reporting is gossip/second hand news. Mick can reveal what ever he wants to about FWM, for what ever reasons he wants to, because he is not only in the band, he co-founded the band, so his observations are first hand accountings not second hand gossip from some wanna be who got dumped.

And, a personal aside. If L.B. really wanted to marry her, rest assured they would have married 20 years ago. I'm not buying the b.s. that she turned him down twice. No woman, young or otherwise, invests 7 years in a relationship, without expecting marriage for financial security, if nothing else. And, this woman does not strike me as a loving, free spirited hippie-chick who gave without regards for nothing in return. That sounds more like Stevie. Storms indeed.

CarolC:wavey:

[Tango]

excerpt from Storms: My Life With Lindsey Buckingham and Fleetwood Mac by Carol Ann Harris, 2007:

starting at page 105, as Carol Ann Harris finds Lindsey beginning to have a grand mal seizure in front of her-

"Before I could speak again, before I could touch him, he fell to the floor and started to convulse. He kicked and thrashed, his eyes beseeching me for help, and I didn't know what to do. I threw myself onto the floor next to him and tried to hold his shaking body still, but he seemed as strong as ten men and I was thrown backward, hitting my head on the edge of the coffee table. . . .

Richard! Help us, Richard! Richard, help! Lindsey's dying! Richard, help me!

. . .

After what seemed in eternity I heard a voice say "Front desk," and I yelled shrilly into the receiver, "Get an ambulance for room 7322! Lindsey Buckingham needs paramedics and an ambulance! Now!" [Philadelphia didn't have 911 yet]

. . . "Carol, what's happening? What's wrong with Lindsey?"

I looked up to see Richard standing shirtless in the doorway, staring in horror at Lindsey twisting and turning on the floor. "My God! Lindsey! Carol, I heard your voice. I thought I was dreaming, but when I woke up I could still hear you screaming! What's happening to him, Carol? What's wrong with him?"


. . . I don't know what's wrong. He's had flashes and I thought it was just another one and then he fell, and he started shaking and I can't make him stop, Richard. He won't stop- and I think he might die and I need help . . . .



"Is he going to be okay? Are you taking him to the hospital now?"

"Ma'am, we've been told that a doctor has been called. We want to take him to the hospital- it's just across the street- but Mr. Fleetwood says to wait for the doctor, so that's what we are doing."

....

Looking at Richard for help I started to plead. "Richard. Tell them he has to go to the hospital- you saw how horrible it was! Richard, tell them!" Richard looked about to speak but then shook his head and stared at the floor. His face was almost as white as Lindsey's and I knew that he, too, couldn't believe that the band and the powers that be were putting the show first over Lindsey's ghastly attack.


...

Without meeting my eyes Mick told methat it was best to wait for the doctor. Talking to me like I was a child, he said that the show was huge and it was too late to cancel it. And anyway, maybe Lindsey would be "fine" when he woke up. He wanted to ask Lindsey if he thought he could play after his "little attack."
----------

[goldie]

The way I see it, Lindsey has quite an effect on the women .... Steve still writes about him in her songs, Carol Ann writes a book about him, remembering all sorts of things from many years ago .... more reason why I want to date that man!

But I also take the book with a grain of salt. The third page of the Introduction (page x) is where I began to have my doubts ... where she writes how Stevie's songs on Rumours, "Dreams" and "I Don't Want to Know" were much kinder towards LB than he was to her on say, GYOW. Stevie didn't even write IDWTK during their breakup ..... (right? I mean, they sing it on the BN tour for crying out loud!)

[Michelle Daya]

Yes, he has said about both relationships with Carol Ann and Cheri that only the first year or so was good.

& this isn't an invasion of their privacy? no woman wants the world to know something like that. not to mention it's a huge cut to them. i know few details about cheri except that there was a car accident when lb was drunk & cheri was messed up. & i read although i couldn't cite the source that cheri was given money if she never talked publicly. someone please correct me if i'm wrong. i love, admire & respect lb but can't look at him as a victim in all this when it's clear he's talked about former gfs in a not-so-redeeming light. anne heche? come? come on.

[danax6]

Stevie didn't even write IDWTK during their breakup ..... (right? I mean, they sing it on the BN tour for crying out loud!)That's correct. It's one of those songs that was intended for BN2, which means it was probably written somewhere in 1974. They were already having their share of problems back then, but they were still together. It was definitely not written during/about the 1976 break-up.

[danax6]

Without meeting my eyes Mick told methat it was best to wait for the doctor. Talking to me like I was a child, he said that the show was huge and it was too late to cancel it. And anyway, maybe Lindsey would be "fine" when he woke up. He wanted to ask Lindsey if he thought he could play after his "little attack."
----------On one of the limo tapes he is talking about it also, not when they are having that 'group meeting' but actually in the limo, and he's not taking it seriously at all, he's actually joking about it. It came across as Mick believing Lindsey was being a drama queen.

[catinthedark]

excerpt from Storms: My Life With Lindsey Buckingham and Fleetwood Mac by Carol Ann Harris, 2007:

starting at page 105, as Carol Ann Harris finds Lindsey beginning to have a grand mal seizure in front of her-

"Before I could speak again, before I could touch him, he fell to the floor and started to convulse. He kicked and thrashed, his eyes beseeching me for help, and I didn't know what to do. I threw myself onto the floor next to him and tried to hold his shaking body still, but he seemed as strong as ten men and I was thrown backward, hitting my head on the edge of the coffee table. . . .

Richard! Help us, Richard! Richard, help! Lindsey's dying! Richard, help me!

. . .

After what seemed in eternity I heard a voice say "Front desk," and I yelled shrilly into the receiver, "Get an ambulance for room 7322! Lindsey Buckingham needs paramedics and an ambulance! Now!" [Philadelphia didn't have 911 yet]

. . . "Carol, what's happening? What's wrong with Lindsey?"

etc etc etc etc etc.....
----------

:shocked: that drivel found a publisher?

omg. i could hardly read that excerpt. it is SO bad. so badly written. and we're supposed to believe she remembered exchanges like that word for word?

(insert that awesome barfing smiley here)

here's my thought about why it was delayed - and the fact that it doesn't really contain any of the "juice" it promised:

lawyers.

stevie's. and lindsey's.

[Tango]

:shocked: that drivel found a publisher?

omg. i could hardly read that excerpt. it is SO bad. so badly written. and we're supposed to believe she remembered exchanges like that word for word?

(insert that awesome barfing smiley here)

here's my thought about why it was delayed - and the fact that it doesn't really contain any of the "juice" it promised:

lawyers.

stevie's. and lindsey's.

Actually, it's well written. I cut a lot out because it would involve a LOT of typing. As Dana mentions, Mick totally seems to disregard the seriousness of the moment. She captures it well. He should have been hospitalized.

[catinthedark]

^^ sorry, dude. unless you RE-WROTE parts of it, i stand by my assessment.

[Tango]

^^ sorry, dude. unless you RE-WROTE parts of it, i stand by my assessment.

:laugh: Nope, I'm not a writer.

That's fine. Here's a critic's review:


Publishers Weekly
This is a fascinating if overlong look at the megasuccess of Fleetwood Mac in the mid-1970s, after the former British blues band recorded the laid-back rock songs of guitarist Lindsey Buckingham and singer Stevie Nicks that made the album Rumoursone of the most popular of its era. While working at the band's recording studio, Harris, currently a music business costume designer, became Buckingham's girlfriend and constant companion from 1976 through 1984, and she gives a detailed look-more so than drummer and original member Mick Fleetwood's biography-at this already well-chronicled story of how the success of Rumoursprovided the income for extravagant cocaine-fueled excesses before, during and after performances. Harris too often uses clichés, such as her view of the band's "beautiful insanity." But she does candidly recount Buckingham's rage and his repeated physical assaults on her. Along the way, she offers great descriptions of the band's recording sessions, especially her account of Buckingham's desire to "create something new, something completely" different for Tusk, the more experimental (and less profitable) follow-up to Rumours. (July)

[danax6]

here's my thought about why it was delayed - and the fact that it doesn't really contain any of the "juice" it promised:

lawyers.

stevie's. and lindsey's.Yup. :rolleyes:

[mgikallaroundme]

:shocked: that drivel found a publisher?



here's my thought about why it was delayed - and the fact that it doesn't really contain any of the "juice" it promised:

lawyers.

stevie's. and lindsey's.


If their lawyer screened this it was to make sure they couldn't be sued. :lol:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

[dontlookdown]

i get the FM interest/obsession.
but who wants to read garbage like this?
there are so many great new books out right now.

[Tango]

i get the FM interest/obsession.
but who wants to read garbage like this?
there are so many great new books out right now.

You are entitled to not read and discuss it and that's certainly a reasonable choice. Yet this is a Fleetwood Mac website and people discuss things about the band. Sometimes ad nauseum, I might add!

Lindsey has always been a genious in Fleetwood Mac and some want to understand him more. I personally have never quite understood what was behind "I'm So Afraid." I kept thinking WHY is he saying "I'm so afraid of the way I feel." What could be so fearful about feelings. And he wrote that song at such a young age. What could possibly frighten Lindsey about the way he feels? I just couldn't get it. If he is speaking about rage, anger management, maybe a bit of this book and that song make some sense. He has mentioned he's been in therapy.



I don't think it makes a person a "bad fan" to be interested in this book. He wrote the song, "I'm So Afraid." He put it out there. I don't think this book paints Lindsey as an evil person, but there is clearly a Lindsey shown that has anger issues. I think there are shades of Lindsey shown that maybe some don't want to know about. Lindsey speaks of "My Little Demon," "Go Insane . . . as I always do." etc. I think he's expressing something in his lyrics.

There's some humor in the book as well. There are some glimpses of Stevie that made me roar. But it's from this writer's point of view.

I think John McVie comes off as the most kind and probably most "together" member of the band (despite his personal battles with alcohol, which he has fought valiantly against). Haven't a few of us said that before?

Edit:
I left out the description of Christine. She seems like someone you'd really want to meet:
"Christine was a guys' girl, a good sport- think Katherine Hepburn's elegance and boyish charm, or Hilary Swank in Million Dollar Baby. She was earthy and tough, despite the pure voice and the poignant love songs she wrote. She was the band mother, as Stevie was the wayward band child." (introduction, page xi)

[Kelly]

Come really about Anne Heche?

Bwwwhhhhha.


Where is that three dollar bill?:rolleyes:


Her shacking up with a woman was certainly convenient for him, though. :thumbsup:

[goldie]

& this isn't an invasion of their privacy? no woman wants the world to know something like that. not to mention it's a huge cut to them. i know few details about cheri except that there was a car accident when lb was drunk & cheri was messed up. & i read although i couldn't cite the source that cheri was given money if she never talked publicly. someone please correct me if i'm wrong. i love, admire & respect lb but can't look at him as a victim in all this when it's clear he's talked about former gfs in a not-so-redeeming light. anne heche? come? come on.

I think it's part of the possibilities when you date a rock star .... your affair may just be written about in a book or a song some day. And same goes when you date a non-rock star, I am sure we've all trashed our exes and they've trashed us in one way or another. It's just not read or heard by as many people .....

[SortaSavageLike]

I haven't actually read the book yet, but I hear there's a part where Carol talks about Stevie's dog ingesting cocaine and running around in circles.

Now, I know she wants us to find that deathly serious, but let's face it, the potential for a future Fleetwood Mac comedy just rose exponentially. :blob2:

[Chrislit18]

I haven't actually read the book yet, but I hear there's a part where Carol talks about Stevie's dog ingesting cocaine and running around in circles.

Now, I know she wants us to find that deathly serious, but let's face it, the potential for a future Fleetwood Mac comedy just rose exponentially. :blob2:

LMAO :lol::laugh:
i know its not supposed to be funny, but that reminded me of chickens running around headless....

it really makes one wonder how the dog could have gotten the cocaine

oh, and yeah, i think they should make a FM comedy...id go see it.. :thumbsup:

[PenguinHead]

Lindsey wasn't that upset about his breakup with STevie?? Is that why he STILL claims to not have closure? :laugh: Those Tusk songs sound sort of bitter to me...........

Something doesn't add up Miss Carol Ann. :wavey:

Mine shipped out on the 26th. I was coerced into buying this trash. :lol:

I don't take it so black and white. Yeah, Lindsey was likely upset -- but not over his break up with Stevie; they were both probably ready to move on at that point...their relationship was doomed. What he was mostly upset about was the fact that he couldn't get away from her (the spectar) -- he still had to work with her.

Think about that: how would you feel if you wanted to/had to remove yourself and breakaway from someone, yet the circumstances of your professional relationship together made that impossible? Wouldn't you feel a little frustrated...or "upset"?

[goldie]

Think about that: how would you feel if you wanted to/had to remove yourself and breakaway from someone, yet the circumstances of your professional relationship together made that impossible? Wouldn't you feel a little frustrated...or "upset"?

Agreed. It almost seems like an impossible task. I would never ever want to work with an ex!!!! eek!

[jody]

I got my copy yesterday and am up to the 5th chapter. She paints herself as a young kid from the mid-west who goes to "hollywood" to see the world. One interesting thing from the book is that she got to listen to Rumours before it came out. Lindsey wanted her opinion. A fresh perspective. He thought Gold Dust Woman needed something and got a plate of glass that they took out into the parking lot where Mick smashed it. They recorded it and that was the beginning of the song. I'd heard about the glass but I've never really heard it in the song. I'll have to really listen next time. I think she has written a good tell-all so far. No one is portrayed unfairly but I don't think she showed Stevie in a good light. She claims the first conversation she had with Stevie was when Stevie came over to her and said they shared the same birthday and she asked if Carol liked to wear black. When Carol said yes, she thinks all blonds look good in black, Stevie said that must be why Lindsey is with you, your like me. That's cold!!!

[danax6]

She claims the first conversation she had with Stevie was when Stevie came over to her and said they shared the same birthday and she asked if Carol liked to wear black. When Carol said yes, she thinks all blonds look good in black, Stevie said that must be why Lindsey is with you, your like me.Well, duh.

[mgikallaroundme]

Well, duh.


All these coincidences...


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

[gypsysoul]

I don't think she showed Stevie in a good light. She claims the first conversation she had with Stevie was when Stevie came over to her and said they shared the same birthday and she asked if Carol liked to wear black. When Carol said yes, she thinks all blonds look good in black, Stevie said that must be why Lindsey is with you, your like me. That's cold!!![/QUOTE]

On one of the other boards I've read that some of the guys who worked with the band said that although Stevie was outwardly nice to Carol, she was actually very upset by the relationship and tried hard behind the scenes to help engineer a break-up between Carol and LB. If that's true and Carol was aware of it, I suppose Stevie isn't her favourite person.

[catinthedark]

Well, duh.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

stevie did have some ammunition in that area, though. ever seen the line up of lindsey's post-stevie girlfriends? it is hilarious. all pale shadows of her. he definitely has a "type." :laugh:

[danax6]

On one of the other boards I've read that some of the guys who worked with the band said that although Stevie was outwardly nice to Carol, she was actually very upset by the relationship and tried hard behind the scenes to help engineer a break-up between Carol and LB. If that's true and Carol was aware of it, I suppose Stevie isn't her favourite person.Hm, hm. I got this from 7W:

In one passage I read, Lindsey and Carol were house hunting and Stevie found out which house and was there when Lindsey and Carol showed up. Stevie claimed she wanted the house too.

[Kelly]

^^ That just cracks me up. I can totally see Stevie doing that. She wanted to be the bitch that got the house on the Hill. :]



IMHO, I get the impression from this book that CA is completely romanticizing her relationship with LB. It does not sound reasonable for her to claim that Lindsey was not upset about his break up with Stevie when he himself has said otherwise. He said he never had closure, that the spectre of Stevie disabled several long term relationships he had, ones he knew were doomed but stayed in them anyway. He even said only the first year or two with these gals was any good. :o I do not believe CA turned down a marriage proposal from LB...sorry but I just don't. I may be wrong about my impressions of course but based on how she worded many of the passages, it seems like she is trying to portray herself as his greatest love ever and Stevie as really nothing that special.

[goldie]

I may be wrong about my impressions of course but based on how she worded many of the passages, it seems like she is trying to portray herself as his greatest love ever and Stevie as really nothing that special.

And we all know THAT is a bunch of BS!! Message to CA - watch LB's VH1 Behind the Music at a minimum, prior to writing a book about him, lol!

[jhb]

Hello all. I am new to this list-- a pretty big fan of Buckingham's music, decent fan of Fleetwood Mac, etc.

I was sent a copy of Storms to review for a website-- being a Buckingham fan, I wanted to do it. I'm not completely sure what to make of it other than it's an entertaining read and to me a very sad story regardless of how much of it is true.
Harris' allegations of Lindsey's physical abuse are pretty serious, though, more so than has been mentioned here. According to her, in addition to choking her, he hits her in the face and drags her by her hair.
I'm just wondering if any of this has come up before-- I read somewhere that Harris discussed it on a talk show in the '90s. I can believe Buckingham being an unpredictable, sometimes misogynistic guy. Some of the scenes in the book, though, shocked me. I can't right now think of Buckingham without thinking about that.


I'm wondering if Buckingham has ever been confronted on this. Harris' insinuation is that he pretends it never happens. If he hasn't I imagine it'll come up now in some interviews.

I don't know that Harris ever actually says she "turned down" a marriage proposal, except at the very end of the affair, after Go Insane has come out. I take it that prior to that they were engaged though she claims she put off a wedding date.

One interesting note, which may or may not affect her credibility-- in the advance copy of the book, at the end of the scene at Claptons where they're playing darts (p. 70), there's another line where Harris says "You'll shoot your eye out" and makes a reference to the movie A Christmas Story. Of course, a fact checker must have caught that it was impossible, as the movie didn't exist at the time! She also refers to Buckingham being in the Save Me video, which she designed costumes for-- but of course that was a couple years after he left the band.

Cheers-

[DavidMn]

I hope this worthless maggot makes no money whatsoever off this piece of trash. :mad:

[danax6]

To anybody that has read the book... does CAH specify exactly when they entered into the relationship for real, and does she at one point even allude to Lindsey being unfaithful to her?

it seems like she is trying to portray herself as his greatest love ever and Stevie as really nothing that special.

That's why I am asking. Because to their own admission, stuff kept going even after they had 'broken up', for quite some time. Stevie talks about them maybe finally being over in a journal entry dated August 1977, saying 'it's sad to see good love go bad'. Then there's the infamous Rolling Stone photoshoot that took place at the beginning of 1977, where they apparantly spent some time in that bed making out. Or Stevie saying that even during the recording of Rumours they were enough together that he would still come up to her condo and sleep with her. And let's not forget Lindsey's songs on Tusk. Then there's the Mirage era, where all the bitterness seemed gone for a while and a few reports came in about them at least 'shagging up'. And both of their admissions regarding the 1987 departure, how Stevie said that was really the end of Stevie and Lindsey and Lindsey saying part of the reason he had to leave was because he still hadn't managed to get closure regarding Stevie.

I mean, it's all nice and sweet, Carol Ann, but there are so many things contradicting what you are claiming. :shrug:

[danax6]

Oh, and since somebody brought up the Sara/Beverlee conversations, let's not forget how they talked about Stevie's jealous streak when they brought up that apparantly Lindsey and Beverlee hooked up at some point also.

[MacMan]

i did think the part about lindsey throwing up on dick clark's carpet on the night of the ama awards was kind of funny. it sounds like a crazy kind of life. i probably will read the entire book (but with a grain of salt).

BUCKINGHAM'S EX REVEALS FLEETWOOD MAC SECRETS
pr-inside.com (http://www.pr-inside.com/buckingham-s-ex-reveals-fleetwood-mac-r163764.htm)

FLEETWOOD MAC guitarist LINDSEY BUCKINGHAM was once rushed from the stage of a televised music awards ceremony because he was too drunk, according to his ex-girlfriend.

Carol Ann Harris reveals in her book, Storms: My Life with Lindsey Buckingham and Fleetwood Mac, how Buckingham would indulge in cocaine and beer during the height of the band's fame in the 1970s.

She claims Buckingham was removed from the stage of the 1978 American Music Awards after collecting the band's Album of the Year award because he was too drunk.

According to Harris, his bandmates found him backstage looking at a puddle of his own "disgusting biohazard" vomit.

She also claims Buckingham heckled country great Kenny Rogers at the Grammy Awards and poked fun at his make-up.

Harris writes, "I really didn't want to have my fairytale night spoiled by a fight between Kenny Rogers and my man."

[Sahara]

^^ That just cracks me up. I can totally see Stevie doing that. She wanted to be the bitch that got the house on the Hill. :]

:lol: :lol:

And we all know THAT is a bunch of BS!! Message to CA - watch LB's VH1 Behind the Music at a minimum, prior to writing a book about him, lol!

*gigglesnort* Amen!

[Sahara]

I don't think the argument that Harris is entitled to write this seeing as Lindsey spoke about her in songs is really valid. Your average listener isn't going to know who he's talking about [probably more likely to assume he's talking about a fictional character that fits the song] and even the fans like us don't know for a fact that he's referring to person X in specific song Y, and so we can't make assumptions about them.

Poetry and lyrics are completely different to a kiss-and-tell book [which this basically is] because they're linked with suggestion, not explicit detail and fact, no matter how scathing or "nasty" they are *coughCome*.

[Sahara]

excerpt from Storms: My Life With Lindsey Buckingham and Fleetwood Mac by Carol Ann Harris, 2007:

Apart from this being appallingly bad writing (!) it's obvious Harris has her own agenda here. There's no need to tell a story like this in such a ridiculously dramatic and sensational tone; this is just blatant "sexing up" of the story to make the account spicier for readers, not the genuine emotinal response it tries [and fails] to pretend to be. Not to mention focussing on how favourably it portrays her.

Trash. :mad:

[danax6]

She claims Buckingham was removed from the stage of the 1978 American Music Awards after collecting the band's Album of the Year award because he was too drunk.
http://images7.pictiger.com/images/8c/fcdca7272bd197f1cf045f59a413d08c.jpg

Drunk? Naaaaaah. :laugh:

[BTFLCHLD]

nauseating.

[Boots]

Everytime I read about the projectile vomit, I think of Kermit the vomiting frog from Conan O'Brien's show.

I have to admit, I'm really curious about this book. I gave in and bought it. I can't help myself.

I will, of course, read it with the biggest grain of salt on record.

Besides, I'm going to be taking some comedy sketch writing courses next month. This could be good fodder for some comedic scenarios.

[Betsy]

Hello all. I am new to this list-- a pretty big fan of Buckingham's music, decent fan of Fleetwood Mac, etc.

I was sent a copy of Storms to review for a website--

One interesting note, which may or may not affect her credibility-- in the advance copy of the book, at the end of the scene at Claptons where they're playing darts (p. 70), there's another line where Harris says "You'll shoot your eye out" and makes a reference to the movie A Christmas Story. Of course, a fact checker must have caught that it was impossible, as the movie didn't exist at the time! She also refers to Buckingham being in the Save Me video, which she designed costumes for-- but of course that was a couple years after he left the band.

Cheers-

:wavey: :wavey: Welcome to the Ledge!! jhb!! :wavey: :wavey:

I enjoyed reading your comments. Is the website review of yours still on line? If so, would you mind sharing the link? I am always interested in a different perspective. Or you could send me a Private Message to the link...

I don't know what's true or not true in this book. I did get the pre-order from Amazon. I will say that the book isn't well written (IMO) but then again I am an old high school English teacher ...

Maybe writing the book was closure/therapy for her? I found the foreward to be interesting... Why were these people encouraging and supporting her in this endeavor?

The pictures are a disappointment and the writing is "too on the martyr side" for me. I haven't finished the book yet so this is just an opinion from someone who is only 1/4 of the way through the book. Maybe I'll change my mind.

:wavey: :wavey: See You Around the Ledge jhb! :wavey: :wavey:

[carol7lynn]

Did she really refer to LB as "my man"? Gag me with a spoon then.:(

So he puked on Dick Clark's carpet. President Bush Sr. puked in the Prime Minister of Japan's lap at a formal dinner back in the day. Bush's spin doctors blamed it on the sleeping pill Halcion. Ludes, Halcion "all the same, Rhiannon."

As for being drunk: Did anyone catch John Stamos down-under last week on some Aussie talk show, or Danny DiVito on the View or Davie Hasselhoff being taped by his daughter a month before some lame-brain judge gave him full custody of said daughter? These stars are all over 40 and none of them rockers-especially DeVito. When Lindsey was stumbling around the stages of the world, he was a rock god in his late twenties/early thirties. He certainly was no match for Keith Richards or Ozzie O.

As for physical abuse, read Sharon Osborne's autobiography. Ozzie got so wasted one time that he literally tired to strangle her to death and he actually ended up in jail for a brief time over the incident. So if Lindsey assaulted CA, she should have done what Sharon did, and have his but thrown in jail. Did she? I doubt it. Then who would pay for her life-style.

One poster said CA gave up a career for him. What career? She was a high school graduate working in a recording studio with her then boyfriend; correct me if I read wrong. Which in the real world meant he (the boyfriend) was the one with the recording studio job and she hung out there with him hoping to hitch her wagon to a star. As for LB asking for her advise about his music-hog wash. Why would he ask CA when he had 4 other gifted musicians in the band to go to. And, if he's the control freak everyone seems to claim that he is, then I seriously doubt that he would ask some high school graduate from Oklahoma-who has written how many songs:answer none-for an opinion.

I refuse to spend a penny on the book and thereby line her ungrateful pockets with my hard earned money. By next year at this time you'll be able to get this piece of trash for $5. The cover is a hoot unto itself. Someone point her out in the picture please. Oh, that's right you can't simply because she was not in the band. She's getting her thirty pieces of silver and her 15 minutes of fame at the same time at Lindsey's and FWM's expense.

To quote an old Stones album liner note-"Behind the buttons, behind the dirt, you know at times, you're often hurt." That's what happens when your a star people use you in oh so many ways.

CarolC:confused:

[mgikallaroundme]

The cover is a hoot unto itself. Someone point her out in the picture please.

Do you really want me to? :eek: :eek: :eek:


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

[Kelly]

Do you really want me to? :eek: :eek: :eek:


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

There is really no need, is there? :p


BTW....why is ever God Damned chapter named after a Stevie song or a Stevie lyric?? :angel:

I notice that CA constantly feels the need to recount little conversations where Lindsey calls her "My Angel". In the four chapters I have read so far, she must have made that point ten times already. :D

[mgikallaroundme]

There is really no need, is there? :p


BTW....why is ever God Damned chapter named after a Stevie song or a Stevie lyric?? :angel:

I notice that CA constantly feels the need to recount little conversations where Lindsey calls her "My Angel". In the four chapters I have read so far, she must have made that point ten times already. :D


No **** man. :nod: Finally somebody feelin me! :blob2:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

[snicksfan85]

One poster said CA gave up a career for him. What career? She was a high school graduate working in a recording studio with her then boyfriend; correct me if I read wrong. Which in the real world meant he (the boyfriend) was the one with the recording studio job and she hung out there with him hoping to hitch her wagon to a star. As for LB asking for her advise about his music-hog wash. Why would he ask CA when he had 4 other gifted musicians in the band to go to. And, if he's the control freak everyone seems to claim that he is, then I seriously doubt that he would ask some high school graduate from Oklahoma-who has written how many songs:answer none-for an opinion.


CarolC:confused:
Don't be knockin' the Oklahoma high school graduates working at studios. (There are some of us still out there.) Back in the day, that was how you got 'in' the business. You hung around the studio as either the gofer or receptionist. Now, it's kind of important that you get a college degree.

And it's not unheard of for an artist to ask an outsider their opinion on an album, especially if he has an ulterior motive. (Like getting into her pants.) I might as well be a receptionist at the studio I'm interning at because, for all most people know, I'm the girl who sits at the desk and answers the phone. I've been asked what I think of whatever's being worked on in the studio at that moment, and I'm really a nobody without a song credit to my name.

I'm not validating what she said in her book but it's not totally unheard of....

[danax6]

Do you really want me to? :eek: :eek: :eek:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Betsy]

Carol7lynn, you brought up some good points, and you aren't even reading the book.

I worked on it again last night. I gotta tell you, reading it word-by-word is hard....in fact, to me, it's sickening. I don't know if I will be able to finish it.

I've heard of "tooting ones own horn" but this girl (Carol Ann), is like a Disney cartoon heroine (think: Little Mermaid/Jasmine/Belle), so sweet so innocent, etc. etc. And the way she talks (it is a first person narrative) - well, I just ain't buying it. To me, the book is more fantasy -- hers.

The one point that is coming through (for me) is the comparison of Fleetwood Mac to Elvis's Memphis Mafia. The way she describes the workings of the inner circle, remind me of the books I read about him.

Come to think of it, CAH's book reminds me of the one Elvis's stepmother, Dee wrote. Both books are not a third person's candid observation ... they are definitely fantasy literature.

[Sahara]

And the way she talks (it is a first person narrative) - well, I just ain't buying it. To me, the book is more fantasy -- hers.

From what I've read on the board, that sounds like you're hitting the nail on the head. :distress:

[Sahara]

I notice that CA constantly feels the need to recount little conversations where Lindsey calls her "My Angel". In the four chapters I have read so far, she must have made that point ten times already. :D

Oh yuk...!

[DavidMn]

If it looks like ****, smells like ****, well guess what? it's ****!:nod:

[BTFLCHLD]

ok...excerpts of drugs and rocknroll :woohoo: ...where is the SEX? :rolleyes:

[Michelle Daya]

i haven't read the book but from what's been posted here, i don't think anybody can discount a 7 year relationship. i don't think it was all good & maybe most of it was bad. i do believe she was innocent when it started as lb has said himself in some interviews. something to the effect that he felt guilty or responsible because she didn't know anything when he met her. i believe that. & because of that, he probably did call her his angel. & for her, he was the love of her life.

i think she wrote this because she's hurt to this day that he married someone else but mostly because she's never gotten over him. it must be hard to love someone for so long after miscarrying his baby & spending 7 years of her life living with, coming out the other side with a major drug problem & issues that obviously have never gone away. i put myself in that position, of being 19 or 20 & finding myself involved with a rock legend & all that goes along with it. the money is only a fraction of what was being passed around in drugs, fame & f__king around. that would mess anyone up. & it was nice he bought her a condo & helped her get on her feet after it was over but i can't imagine coming out that other side with an addiction & heartbreak all the same time. so i cut her some slack. stevie has dissed lb way more than ca ever has. why is it ok for her? & one more thing. do you think the so-called spec of stevie & the collapse of lb's relationships had something to do with stevie trying to ruin them by saying "we slept together while he was with so and so?" even if it wasn't true, she was always around planting seeds that would upset any relationship. she didn't want him but didn't want anyone else to have him. unfair playing, wouldn't you say?

[danax6]

One thing that is completely off is her recollection of Lindsey's illness during the Rumours tour. She says it all took place in 1977, the big collapse and the subsequent spinal tap and him having to take medication three times a day, every day.

She mentions her being the one that looked out for him and made sure he took his pills, she even talks about this when she describes the events of the 1978 AMA awards, which were in January of that year. She talks about being the one that had to do all the damage control during that time, because the band didn't care about Lindsey.

But guess what? Lindsey's collapse and everything else that followed didn't happen until the summer of 1978. 6 months after all the award shows. :rolleyes:

[DavidMn]

I guess none of us will ever know what REALLY happened. I guess the thing to do is let her 15 minutes of fame run it's course and we'el be done withe her

[dontlookdown]

At best, this is white trash summer reading.
Unfortunately, this book represents a woman who needs serious therapy.
It's 2007 and she's still trying to make money off of Lindsey Buckingham!
FM fans should not waste money on this garbage.

[jbrownsjr]

At best, this is white trash summer reading.
Unfortunately, this book represents a woman who needs serious therapy.
It's 2007 and she's still trying to make money off of Lindsey Buckingham!
FM fans should not waste money on this garbage.

he made money off her in his comp's... turnabout is fair play...

[carol7lynn]

Between reading the posts here and on Stevie's forum, I stand by what I said; the woman is an amoral, back-stabbing, self-aggrandizing wanna-be, who lives off the talents/largesse of others.

For those nay-sayers then riddle me this: Who on earth could feel sorry for some one who essentially broke into the music business by bootlegging concert albums and has the audacity to get all self-righteous because Stevie, surreptitiously taped an intimate "I'd like to tell you why you are the right one for Lindsey" conversation with her? Not me. She got what she asked for. What goes around comes around.

I personally could care less whether or not she did or did not have a relationship with LB. I have a problem with her motivation for essentially spreading thirty year old gossip about a band she was never a part of and a man she never married. The Christine underwear story was not only tastelessly unnecessary, it was just plain wrong, wrong, wrong. Didn't this woman also sleep with Christine's one-time boyfriend Dennis Wilson? I sense a pattern here fueled by a hidden agenda. This delusional psycho is out to make the women of FWM look bad so she can, by comparison, wash away her own sins. Out Out Damn Spot!

CarolC

[danax6]

Didn't this woman also sleep with Christine's one-time boyfriend Dennis Wilson? She denies this. She also denies still being on coke once she left Lindsey, as was alluded to in the 'Lonely Guy' article. She also downplayed the amount of coke she consumed, said she only did some on the road and claims she was surprised when Lindsey wrote in his song 'little girl, leave the little drug alone'.

:shrug:

[carol7lynn]

Sounds logical that she would deny or down-play her problems while pointing out other people's flaws/weaknesses. I read somewhere that Lindsey paid for her rehab and bought her a house and may or may not have paid her some palimony.

Does it mention who the ghost writer was? Sounds like they didn't do a very good job of fact checking as posters have reported glaring inaccuracies.

CarolC:]

[DJM]

i'm sure you are all going to kick me off the lindsey forum but i'm going to put my two cents in anyway.

i really think some of you are really going out of your way to discredit this women claiming that most of what she writes can't be true because you just might be afraid that some of it is true. look, i love lindsey's music as much as the next person around here but let's face it - the guy was not a saint. we all know he's had an anger management problem in the past. whether it was due to drugs, alcohol or other medications he might have been on for medical conditions, youth - i don't know. i tend to believe that some of what she says has a basis in truth. she claims that christine was even a witness to some of the abuse. you never know what goes on behind the closed doors of people's homes although a few of you seem to think you were there. a combination of drugs and/or alcohol can make people do strange or horrible things.

i'm glad that he finally seems happy with children now and seems to love kristen very much. maybe the lack of drugs, alcohol and aging finally calmed him down. i can only hope so for the sake of his children that this is the case.

she lives in the united states where she has the freedom of press. she's entitled to write the story of life if she wants to. i'm sure that some of lindsey's songs that he's published and made money from are written about/for her.


okay, ready - aim - fire....

[Kelly]

Sounds logical that she would deny or down-play her problems while pointing out other people's flaws/weaknesses. I read somewhere that Lindsey paid for her rehab and bought her a house and may or may not have paid her some palimony.

Does it mention who the ghost writer was? Sounds like they didn't do a very good job of fact checking as posters have reported glaring inaccuracies.

CarolC:]



She paints herself as a total saint and it is really nauseating. Her whole "Florence Nightengale, me and Lindsey against the big, bad Fleetwood mac" attitude was sooo over the top. People have spoken up about her relationship with LB, from Ken Callait to Lindsey himself. THEY claim she had a drug problem. Of course she is not going to make herself look coked up or like she cheated on LB.......she wants to come off as credible. The way the book was written was really hard to take in large doses...there was way too much dramatic phrasing and overly romanticized stories. Her claims to have always wanted to befriend Stevie sound pretty unbelievable to me. I have no problem with what she wrote about LB...we all know he is no saint, my problem is with how she paints herself and her relationship with LB. The whole thing was just a bizzare read. Plus, her photos really suck. For someone who supposedly spent a good seven years with Lindsey, how come she included no decent pictures? None are in color and all of them are blurry or from twenty miles away. :confused:

Overall, she obviously is trying to cash in an old relationship. Hopefully she won't sell more than a few hundred copies. :p

[strandinthewind]

. . . I have a problem with her motivation for essentially spreading thirty year old gossip about a band she was never a part of and a man she never married . . . .

You mean the same way LB and La Nicks still mostly fraudulently perpetuate that same exact story for monetary gain :shrug:

They can put on that show that directly references the relationship that they mostly accurately say ended 30+ years ago and they can talk about the huge drug fueled party - but when someone who was there and on the inside comments on it for the same remuneration, that somehow is automatically bad? Sounds like a double standard to me, especially considering LB also made money off his relationship with this woman because he wrote a song (possibly songs) about her and discussed her in his BTM special - again mostly to perpetuate the LB/La Nicks saga. Why is it okay for him to violate this woman's trust in the same way people are asserting she is violating his trust by publishing this book? What makes it wrong when she does it other than she is seen by many as attacking the band and members with whom people here are obsessed in good and bad ways?

In the end, she was there and it is her story to tell - just like FM tells that same story.

Now - whether the stuff she says is true - who knows. But, I know this, if she had lied in any significant way, FM's people, esp. La Nicks' people, would crush her to death. Look at how La Nicks' herself openly said she
d "bury" Mick if he libeled her in his book.

[strandinthewind]

. . . Overall, she obviously is trying to cash in an old relationship . . .

Again, the same exact way La Nicks and LB do :shrug:

[jbrownsjr]

You mean the same way LB and La Nicks still mostly fraudulently perpetuate that same exact story for monetary gain :shrug:

They can put on that show that directly references the relationship that they mostly accurately say ended 30+ years ago and they can talk about the huge drug fueled party - but when someone who was there and on the inside comments on it for the same remuneration, that somehow is automatically bad? Sounds like a double standard to me, especially considering LB also made money off his relationship with this woman because he wrote a song (possibly songs) about her and discussed her in his BTM special - again mostly to perpetuate the LB/La Nicks saga. Why is it okay for him to violate this woman's trust in the same way people are asserting she is violating his trust by publishing this book? What makes it wrong when she does it other than she is seen by many as attacking the band and members with whom people here are obsessed in good and bad ways?

In the end, she was there and it is her story to tell - just like FM tells that same story.

Now - whether the stuff she says is true - who knows. But, I know this, if she had lied in any significant way, FM's people, esp. La Nicks' people, would crush her to death. Look at how La Nicks' herself openly said she
d "bury" Mick if he libeled her in his book. ..................................

thank you

[BTFLCHLD]

A world without songs written about men and women... <img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/37-1.gif">

writing a song = ## verses

writing a book = ### pages

I personally find the entire saga of Rumours a complete bore.

[danax6]

In the end, she was there and it is her story to tell - just like FM tells that same story.

Now - whether the stuff she says is true - who knows. But, I know this, if she had lied in any significant way, FM's people, esp. La Nicks' people, would crush her to death. Look at how La Nicks' herself openly said she
d "bury" Mick if he libeled her in his book.Yes, and you know, the thing is, there is hardly anything shocking in it, so my guess is that it definitely went through a few lawyers' hands first. There are some funny anecdotes, but all the drug/party/other excesses stories were all things everybody already knew about. I just have trouble believing all the little details she presents, because there are far too many inaccuracies throughout the book that make it hard for me to take the rest as gospel truth also. For starters, I doubt the accuracy of all the conversations she brings up. Unless she recorded every single one and they are on tape somewhere, it's quite hard to believe she remembered every single word that was said 30 years ago. So that encourages my belief that a lot of stuff was exaggerated and/or embellished, which goes hand in hand with all the over the top romantic and dramatic parts. Like she rewrote a few dialogues to fit them into her 19th century romance novel.

[strandinthewind]

^^

I agree - much of it likely is hyperbole - or, as Mark Twain would say, the "truth with some stretchers" :laugh:

I do think, however, how she presents herself in the book is most telling.

I also find it telling that she includes so much of La Nicks in it. I get that La Nicks was a force majeure in the story, but I have to wonder how it would have sold if she limited the comments on La Nicks. In other words, she seems in many excerpts to agree that La Nicks was the center around which all revolved. I have not read the whole thing though - so maybe that is a false perception.

[danax6]

I also find it telling that she includes so much of La Nicks in it. I get that La Nicks was a force majeure in the story, but I have to wonder how it would have sold if she limited the comments on La Nicks. In other words, she seems in many excerpts to agree that La Nicks was the center around which all revolved. I have not read the whole thing though - so maybe that is a false perception.I actually found it to be the other way around. Yes, there is a lot of Stevie in it, but she seems to dismiss everything out of hand concerning her. Like she was the smallest blip on the radar ever. She says Lindsey didn't give a rat's ass about her at all, except when he had to deal with her on a professional level. She speaks about some incidents in great detail, she elaborates on what a few of his songs are about, as long as she thinks they are about her. But then she completely evades why Lindsey had those aggressive outbursts, even when it's obvious they coincide with what was going on with Stevie at the time, and she also does not speak about the songs that are definitely not about her. She does not bring up anything personal between Stevie and Lindsey, even though she keeps bringing up the triangle she is stuck in. To me it didn't seem all that tough, and I know it had to have been tougher. She also speaks in great lengths about the bizarreness between Lindsey and Stevie that went on in Australia and New Zealand during the Tusk tour, but she doesn't breathe one word about why they were like that or what was going on between them. She keeps bringing the subject back to her, as if Stevie didn't even matter when obviously she played a big part in some of those major events. In fact, I find her stuff about Stevie, at least the parts where she says she thought of her as this 'beautiful rock and roll goddess' and how she wanted to be friends with her completely forced, because she doesn't resist any chance to make her look like a fool, or to one up her. It's very conflicting.

At the end it had gotten so bad that I almost expected her to say that Lindsey asked "What do you want, you blubbering fool?" when Stevie called his house, sobbing, right after Robin died. Because throughout the entire book that was the tone. It was the only moment in those 7 years where he seemed almost normal.

[BTFLCHLD]

Stevie began to weep, clutching the sheer white chiffon with the delicacy of her fingers, "oh no Lindsey...not her! We had a love that was young and innocent brought together through a song."

In the past, being privy to this spectacle would have been something of a high point in my calendar, but it only weighed heavy on my mind. I thought that perhaps if I was here, I might chance to hear them.

Over the months I had built up a rich story of him and her in my mind. He with the nimble fingers, bright eyes and wayward smile. Her melancholy from too long trapped behind those walls. I imagined her to be his serving maid, perhaps working to please him and he singing at sundown to help her rest.

Lindsey closed his eyes, hoping that I might be nearby to hear him. His sensitive ears picked up the sound of movement, and as the last note faded from her lips, he opened his eyes and glanced towards me. My dress shimmering in the torchlight.

"Carol, I thank you for this night" as he tossed a NIN guitar pick towards me. :rolleyes:

I tried to pluck from the air as it spun three now four times. My heart pounded against my ribs. Bowing, Stevie retreated into the gathering crowd, finding some safe shadow from which she might once again look up upon Lindsey.

"So this is love?" Stevie thought, as she vanished back into the darkness of the doorway. I had not imagined that it would strike her so cruelly, that the thought of me would inspire so much pain.

The dead could not be more distant than this lady to him. The pick was warm from his fingers, and I pressed it to my lips for a second. No, it was 30 seconds of that I am sure.

<img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/BOOHOO.gif">

[Boots]

Wait - is that post above an excerpt from the book? (I haven't gotten to that part yet). (On edit: AHHH!!! The post above twas fiction. Thank GOD! But I get it. This is pretty close to Harris' style).

So far, I find the book tedious with detailed quotes and overly fleshed out scenes. How can anyone remember all that crap from 30 years ago? And the fact that she was so young. I look back on when I was that age, and realize that what I thought was reality, was really just my own perception of the scenes going on in my life at the time.

Right now, I'm up to the part where he's in Washington DC (i think) and he's dieing of horrible pain from the spinal tap he got in another city. Carol is freaking out, thinking that he'll die from his next seizure. Meanwhile, Stevie is nowhere to be found - deattached - unconcerned about Lindsey's health. We get one moment when Stevie runs into Carol after the grand mal incident - the only time Stevie appeared or reacted to Lindsey's attack - and proceeded to tell her a story about her dog - who had some kind of seizure, and Stevie totally understood how Carol felt because she was freaking out that she couldn't do anything - to which Carol laughed behind her back, relayed the convo to Lindsey - who also laughed...blah blah blah.

Now - I do believe that Stevie showed Carol her sympathy by telling her the dog story. Stevie seems a bit flakey like that - but really? She didn't care or seem concerned in the least? Never came by the hotel room with the others? Really, Carol - she was cold like that?

Anyway - I just think her writing is superfluous. I find myself reading the meat of a paragraph, and when she begins to ramble (as I am doing now), I skim the page.

[Betsy]

^^^^

Very well put! Boots!

The book is so annoying with all the references to romance and the fairytale terms she uses to describe it.

It was bugging me big time, like I was reading a badly written Harlequin Romance and I bought the $30 hardback edition. That's why I skipped to the last chapter. I kept thinking -- "Is this chick ever gonna grow up and talk like an adult?"

I don't take issue with her writing the book. Hey, I'm reading it. What I don't like is the writing style.

She talks about the Rumours Europe tour and how frightened she is. And the sentence before that she says she and John had been to Europe twice and Japan once. She is only 23. That sounds a bit like she's more worldly than she will admit.

While with John, they had a child together and she carefully places it up for adoption. Wouldn't that be a life-altering experience , making one mature and take life a little more seriously? The way CAH writes, I keep thinking... "I don't think this puppy has his eyes open."

I just don't buy that this girl from Oklahoma was that naive'. When she spars with Stevie, she's a full-blown ninja out for war.

[danax6]

Now - I do believe that Stevie showed Carol her sympathy by telling her the dog story. Stevie seems a bit flakey like that - but really? She didn't care or seem concerned in the least? Never came by the hotel room with the others? Really, Carol - she was cold like that?Didn't get that either. Throughout the entire book she paints Stevie as this weak and needy person, at least when it comes to Lindsey. Years after their break-up she is saying Stevie was still jealous and tried to come between them. That she couldn't accept Carol was with Lindsey. But Stevie didn't care in the least that Lindsey was apparantly very sick? Either she exaggerated just how bad his condition was, she painted Stevie in a wrong picture or she downplayed the concern, but something is not adding up there. But I got that feeling concerning a lot of things.


Anyway - I just think her writing is superfluous. I find myself reading the meat of a paragraph, and when she begins to ramble (as I am doing now), I skim the page.I agree. I got incredibly tired of it after a while.

[danax6]

She talks about the Rumours Europe tour and how frightened she is. And the sentence before that she says she and John had been to Europe twice and Japan once.
That was something else that made me go 'huh'. When the Mac was in Japan during the Tusk tour, Carol had remained home, but apparantly John Courage had begged her to fly out, because the band (thus Lindsey) was incredibly bored (no party drugs allowed in Japan) and was making his life a living hell. She then says she had only been to Japan once before, and could understand why they might be bored, because she didn't find it all that interesting either when she was there with her ex-boyfriend John. She was wondering what she might stumble upon when she got there, but a few chapters before that she told us she had accompanied the band to Japan during the Rumours tour, of which we also have documented proof. ;)

Things like that really irk me, because it makes me wonder if she has even read her own book.

[Kelly]

Again, the same exact way La Nicks and LB do :shrug:

Not the same and you know it. :D CA writing a trashy novel is not the same as SN writing lyrics. Stevie's lyrics are usually pretty vague and can be interpreted in many different ways. Stevie has always shown alot of loyaty when it comes to divulging her bandmates secrets. CA sharing personal conversations and details about LB, his family, and his demons is very unloyal. For Cripes sakes, she even had to bring up Lindsey's brother and tell the world he has a prosthetic leg...something LB has never felt it necessary to share with his fan base. :rolleyes: Interesting read but I don't have to like her motivations either.

Of course, CA can write whatever she wants....I think it is pretty lame to do at this point, when he is married and has little kids who will read this some day. I am sure you will bring up one or two things SN has said in thirty plus years that makes LB look bad but like I said, that doesn't compare to what CA did with her "book".

[Boots]

Years after their break-up she is saying Stevie was still jealous and tried to come between them. That she couldn't accept Carol was with Lindsey. But Stevie didn't care in the least that Lindsey was apparantly very sick? Either she exaggerated just how bad his condition was, she painted Stevie in a wrong picture or she downplayed the concern, but something is not adding up there. But I got that feeling concerning a lot of things.

Exactly! And that you for bringing that up. I meant to flesh that out in my post. If Stevie was so protective of her relationship with Lindsey, then why the hell is she painted as this uncaring, numb person during a traumatic moment? I know that it's likely that Stevie and Lindsey played up their breakup, but whether they did or not isn't the point here. The point is - their breakup was pretty fierce. It resonated between them for years. I can't accept that Stevie, no matter how pissed she was with him, wouldn't show a modicum of concern. That she was so far removed from the trauma - that Mick, John, Chris and the rest of the entourage were hanging by the door concerned (for selfish reasons perhaps, but they were still there), that the only time she gave a flying fig was when she told Carol about how her dog was spazzing and she didn't know what to do? That's all? I'm not saying Stevie is a saint. I know there was some bad blood between her and Lindsey, but I feel that something was missing here. Something doesn't add up. Or perhaps Stevie was so high at the time that she really floated in another world. Or perhaps Carol wasn't privy to a few behind the scenes moments when Stevie was indeed concerned about Lindsey and came by - while Carol was running around in her bare feet looking for a pharmacist all over Washington DC.

[Kelly]

Exactly! And that you for bringing that up. I meant to flesh that out in my post. If Stevie was so protective of her relationship with Lindsey, then why the hell is she painted as this uncaring, numb person during a traumatic moment? I know that it's likely that Stevie and Lindsey played up their breakup, but whether they did or not isn't the point here. The point is - their breakup was pretty fierce. It resonated between them for years. I can't accept that Stevie, no matter how pissed she was with him, wouldn't show a modicum of concern. That she was so far removed from the trauma - that Mick, John, Chris and the rest of the entourage were hanging by the door concerned (for selfish reasons perhaps, but they were still there), that the only time she gave a flying fig was when she told Carol about how her dog was spazzing and she didn't know what to do? That's all? I'm not saying Stevie is a saint. I know there was some bad blood between her and Lindsey, but I feel that something was missing here. Something doesn't add up. Or perhaps Stevie was so high at the time that she really floated in another world. Or perhaps Carol wasn't privy to a few behind the scenes moments when Stevie was indeed concerned about Lindsey and came by - while Carol was running around in her bare feet looking for a pharmacist all over Washington DC.

Indeed. You can clearly hear Stevie's concern about Lindsey on Mick's limo tapes. She is talking about his epilepsy and seems to fully understand what is wrong with him and what the treatment is. You can hear the concern in her voice....Mick and Chris aren't paying her any mind but Stevie is obviously worried about LB's current condition. CA doesn't include any talk of Stevie's concern in her "book" but rather chooses to tell the dog story. (something that probably DID happen when Stevie was coked up and drinking) Further, you can see Stevie rub LB's back on one of the Rumours bootlegs..the same show where she says "Lindsey is stttrrroooonggg".
Personally I think huge chunks of facts have been left out of the book on purpose.

[Betsy]

Indeed. You can clearly hear Stevie's concern about Lindsey on Mick's limo tapes.


What are Mick's limo tapes and how can I view/hear them?

[Sahara]

Not the same and you know it. :D CA writing a trashy novel is not the same as SN writing lyrics. Stevie's lyrics are usually pretty vague and can be interpreted in many different ways. Stevie has always shown alot of loyaty when it comes to divulging her bandmates secrets. CA sharing personal conversations and details about LB, his family, and his demons is very unloyal. For Cripes sakes, she even had to bring up Lindsey's brother and tell the world he has a prosthetic leg...something LB has never felt it necessary to share with his fan base. :rolleyes: Interesting read but I don't have to like her motivations either.

Absolutely; as I've said before, the argument that LB writes about her in his songs and thus makes money out of badmouthing her isn't a valid argument, because they're, as you say, vague and open to many interpreatations.

[strandinthewind]

He is not that kind to her in the songs and he openly discussed and some say slammed her in the BTM episode :shrug:

But, and in any event, all parties here are airing their laundry in public and not just in songs. LB and La Nicks always use their "former relationship" and the drugs to sell their records. Hell, La Nicks is even rehashing hot pictures of herself from the latter part of that era to sell her current rehash :shrug:

In the end, Carl Ann was there and it is her story to sell, just like La Nicks and LB use the goings on in that era to sell their current music.

[carol7lynn]

I respectfully disagree. CAH may have been there but she was not in the band. So what she has to say is just "second hand news!"

Her book is not a tell-all but a spiteful tell-on-you. There is a difference between artistic expression in a song-writers musing and mud-slinging for profit.

CarolC:sorry:

[strandinthewind]

. . . There is a difference between artistic expression in a song-writers musing and mud-slinging for profit . . . .

That is a subjective test at best.

Again, in the end, she is telling her story and it is her story to tell.

I get that I may not agree with her, but I cannot and will not fault her for telling it, esp. when La Nicks and LB talk about the hey day every chance they get (and in that they sling some mud) and Carol Ann has been discussed in those talks. She is allowed to respond :shrug:

I think that people in general cannot stand that someone is seen as going against LB and La Nicks; like that is some form of sacrilege.

Anyway, to each their own :cool:

[Kelly]

I respectfully disagree. CAH may have been there but she was not in the band. So what she has to say is just "second hand news!"

Her book is not a tell-all but a spiteful tell-on-you. There is a difference between artistic expression in a song-writers musing and mud-slinging for profit.

CarolC:sorry:

Absolutely!


BTW, Strand...where did LB "slam" Stevie in his BTM? He said her spectre disabled several long term relationships he had. No slam there, just honesty. He focused on her quite a bit, interviewed her, gave them never before seen Fritz footage, used old personal photos of her.....I thought their relationship was presented honestly and sweetly. :confused: A few of his songs are spiteful, but so are Stevie's. There are many, many more lyrics that reflect deep longing and love. Even GYOW reflects that longing. "baby I will give you my world"....

[strandinthewind]

. . . BTW, Strand...where did LB "slam" Stevie in his BTM? He said her spectre disabled several long term relationships he had. No slam there, just honesty. He focused on her quite a bit, interviewed her, gave them never before seen Fritz footage, used old personal photos of her.....I thought their relationship was presented honestly and sweetly. :confused: A few of his songs are spiteful, but so are Stevie's. There are many, many more lyrics that reflect deep longing and love. Even GYOW reflects that longing. "baby I will give you my world"....


I think some people took that BTM as a slam on Carol Ann. Ditto for La Nicks - but I did not.

But, I am mostly talking about LB's songs allegedly about Carol Ann. But, I think you think LB never wrote a song about Carol Ann, so that point is moot on you :laugh:

My other point is LB and La Nicks, esp., love to talk about the drug days and the craziness that went on. So, why should Carol Ann be prohibited from doing the same? She was there after all. And, LB has directly referenced her in his BTM.

Is Carol Ann mudslinging? I think so. But, I recorgnize it is her right to do so because it is the story of her life at that time.

On edit - LB and La Nicks are very careful to promote their loved starved relationship -- it plays well to the masses. So, they are not really going to slam each other too much in public. Rather, they ficticiously play up the sentiment on stage and the crowd eats it up.

[jbrownsjr]

Stevie began to weep, clutching the sheer white chiffon with the delicacy of her fingers, "oh no Lindsey...not her! We had a love that was young and innocent brought together through a song."

In the past, being privy to this spectacle would have been something of a high point in my calendar, but it only weighed heavy on my mind. I thought that perhaps if I was here, I might chance to hear them.

Over the months I had built up a rich story of him and her in my mind. He with the nimble fingers, bright eyes and wayward smile. Her melancholy from too long trapped behind those walls. I imagined her to be his serving maid, perhaps working to please him and he singing at sundown to help her rest.

Lindsey closed his eyes, hoping that I might be nearby to hear him. His sensitive ears picked up the sound of movement, and as the last note faded from her lips, he opened his eyes and glanced towards me. My dress shimmering in the torchlight.

"Carol, I thank you for this night" as he tossed a NIN guitar pick towards me. :rolleyes:

I tried to pluck from the air as it spun three now four times. My heart pounded against my ribs. Bowing, Stevie retreated into the gathering crowd, finding some safe shadow from which she might once again look up upon Lindsey.

"So this is love?" Stevie thought, as she vanished back into the darkness of the doorway. I had not imagined that it would strike her so cruelly, that the thought of me would inspire so much pain.

The dead could not be more distant than this lady to him. The pick was warm from his fingers, and I pressed it to my lips for a second. No, it was 30 seconds of that I am sure.

<img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/BOOHOO.gif">

oh brother lol

[Michelle Daya]

He is not that kind to her in the songs and he openly discussed and some say slammed her in the BTM episode :shrug:

But, and in any event, all parties here are airing their laundry in public and not just in songs. LB and La Nicks always use their "former relationship" and the drugs to sell their records. Hell, La Nicks is even rehashing hot pictures of herself from the latter part of that era to sell her current rehash :shrug:

In the end, Carl Ann was there and it is her story to sell, just like La Nicks and LB use the goings on in that era to sell their current music.

could not agree more

[TrueFaith77]

I'm sorry I didn't check out this strand sooner! I've been dying to talk to someone about this book (I even just bought a copy for my mom so we can talk about it).

Anyway... I'm not sure where to begin except to say that I actually really like the book. It's clearly from one, limited, perhaps biased, perspective, so it doesn't fully satiate (I, took, wish Stevie, Lindsey, etc. would write their memoirs. . .but one might say that they have). However, there is insight here (her stories about the transformation of Lindsey's musical and stage persona) and intriguing archetypal references (I think John Boorman should make a movie of this book). And, yes, there's plenty of "I get credit for Lindsey shaving his beard" stuff, which I just take as silly, and doesn't that kind of thing kinda come with the rocknroll territory (I mean: there's a reason she and Lindsey got along). Anyway... I haven't yet finished the book, but I'm super glad I got it.

[Kelly]

I think some people took that BTM as a slam on Carol Ann. Ditto for La Nicks - but I did not.

But, I am mostly talking about LB's songs allegedly about Carol Ann. But, I think you think LB never wrote a song about Carol Ann, so that point is moot on you :laugh:

My other point is LB and La Nicks, esp., love to talk about the drug days and the craziness that went on. So, why should Carol Ann be prohibited from doing the same? She was there after all. And, LB has directly referenced her in his BTM.

Is Carol Ann mudslinging? I think so. But, I recorgnize it is her right to do so because it is the story of her life at that time.

On edit - LB and La Nicks are very careful to promote their loved starved relationship -- it plays well to the masses. So, they are not really going to slam each other too much in public. Rather, they ficticiously play up the sentiment on stage and the crowd eats it up.


Wha?? Where did I say LB never wrote a song about CA? I said GI wasn't ONLY about CA. There is a "you" and a "she" in that song...obviously two woman. :shrug: I think there are songs about CA...Caroline, I Must Go, Goodbye Angel, etc. I think there are songs about Cheri as well. I do not think Tango in the Night is about CA though because he had moved on to someone else at that point. NGBA is about Windy Sails AND Stevie. I am not sure what your point was about me not thinking any songs are about CA, cause I never said that.

Comparing what SnL do onstage and off to play up their relationship is not even remotely the same. CA is an old, scorned ex girlfriend. Whether SnL ficticiously play up things or not, is not the point......they are not writing tell all books about each other just to make a buck. CA did just that..she is not an artist who is expressing herself through lyrics or music.

[Boots]

Apologies FM LEDGIES! This turned into a long one....abandon ship if you wish...

I'm getting a bit deeper into the book. It's fascinating and tedious all at the same time. However, I'm not going to judge Carol over her personal experience with Lindsey and the band. After all, she was there. I wasn't. But I take issue with her own portrayal of herself back then. I don't see her as a young woman who had a real plan to be a sound mixer or produer. I see her as a young woman who wanted to go to Hollywood and be part of the glamour. And frankly, who wouldn't want that? Yet, her intentions were not true. If she really wanted to be a sound mixer, she would have taken the job with Pink Floyd's producer to advance her career. She didn't, and we're supposed to feel sorry for what unfolded in the years to come. You want to read about a real sound mixer who wasn't dazzled by the lights of glamour? Read "Here, There and Everywhere", by Geoff Emerick - sound engineer to The Beatles. He had a definitive work ethic. This girl just wanted to hitch her wagon to a star. Hells, that's what her writing is telling me.

And there's no doubt that Lindsey loved her and needed her to be with him at all times. However - I think she pats herself way too much on the back for helping him with songs that he wrote for Tusk. Going on about being his muse, and working out emotional support that would lend itself to the type of songs he'd create, is a bit much. In fact, it makes ther reader (me) lose any sympathy for her.

While reading this book, I get this sense that Carol, who must be in her 50's by now, is tapping into memories of a 20-something girl, who in my opinion was pretty, very lucky and vacuous. The years have not provided a shadow of wisdom or humility in the telling of this story. Her sense of grandeur regarding her place and influence on the Fleetwood Mac family is disturbing because many rock biographers never mention her. She is really just a footnote in the grand scheme of this band, and all her stories and feelings don't really prove that wrong.

Another negative element in this book, is her way of telling a story. Not all the flowery, pretty prose can mold a biography into place. She would have done herself a service in telling us the story, and let US figure things out for ourselves - rather than her write paragraph after heavy paragraph, filled with "Angels" and "Sweeties" and every detailed minutae of a silly conversation.

Also, her relationship with Stevie and how she protrays it is manipulating to the reader. She doesn't write the situations with enough information to let the reader (who plunked down some dough for this book) figure out Stevie or anyone else in this FM kingdom. I can't believe an editor let her get away with this kind of storytelling. One passage that irked me last night as I was flipping through the book: She mentions an incident that occured with Stevie in, I think New Zealand. There is some back story to this, which I won't get into. However, the main vibe of it was - Stevie took Carol aside to give her some advice on how to handle LB when he's in a violent mood. Carol never really fleshes out what Stevie said to her. Instead, she provides a very biased view of the conversation, where we do not have the slightest clue as to what Stevie said, but we are left feeling that Nicks was being controlling and weird to her. And - apparently, there was a film crew right there filming their exchange - to which Carol was totally unaware! (HELLO? It's a camera - you know -that thing with a lense?)

Carol makes it look as if Stevie lured her into this sitaution where she can look like a loving, forgiving goddess in front of cameras, while Carol is the wide eyed poor soul. Again - Stevie is no saint - but Harris' writing is very one dimensional. I don't know who is right or wrong here - I only know I'm being manipulated in siding with a glorified groupie, who's remembrance of incidents from 25 years ago are tainted with the view of a young, not very bright, woman.

There is a chapter in the book where she hangs out with Patti Boyd Clapton, a very well respected rock and roll wife. Patti is a rock queen because of what she's been through, how she handles her privacy and what she DOESN'T say. I think Carol should take a lesson from Patti - by keeping the stories and the gory details close to your vest like Jackie O.

[strandinthewind]

Wha?? Where did I say LB never wrote a song about CA? I said GI wasn't ONLY about CA. There is a "you" and a "she" in that song...obviously two woman. :shrug: I think there are songs about CA...Caroline, I Must Go, Goodbye Angel, etc. I think there are songs about Cheri as well. I do not think Tango in the Night is about CA though because he had moved on to someone else at that point. NGBA is about Windy Sails AND Stevie. I am not sure what your point was about me not thinking any songs are about CA, cause I never said that.

My mistake :sorry:

Comparing what SnL do onstage and off to play up their relationship is not even remotely the same. CA is an old, scorned ex girlfriend. Whether SnL ficticiously play up things or not, is not the point......they are not writing tell all books about each other just to make a buck. CA did just that..she is not an artist who is expressing herself through lyrics or music.

No, it is the same - apparently to me and many others because they are not doing it just through the music. They are perpetuating it (the romance, the hey day, etc. ) during interviews and rote movements onstage to make a buck and to sell what is not really that saleable anymore without it - and they know it. So, I say if they can comment in that genre on that era and all that went on, so can Carol Ann, no matter how wrong her memory may be. After all, she was there and it is her story to tell as well. I mean certainly all of FM has misremembered more than one detail and certainly they all have said things out of spite born in scorn :shrug: But, to each their own.

Interestingly, if Carol Ann had praised La Nicks and LB - even if untrue - I do not think we would be having this conversation.

I get the sense you just hate her and she can do nothing right. But and again, to each their own :cool:

[Tango]

A couple people have compared/contrasted the women that Lindsey has been with over the years. That exquisite femininity, etc. But Stevie was also a fire brand, the one that could light up the room, the one that people noticed (and still do) when she enters a room. I think Carol Ann was incredibly passive, sweet and, despite having been in a relationship before, having a child, etc, still with a touch of innocence about her insomuch as the drug culture was at that time. I don't think she was stupid, though. She knew Lindsey was a rock star and quite well off. By the end of her almost 8 year relationship, as she points out, she could have made off well financially. But she didn't. That's to her credit. She also seems to have become more aware of her needs to have boundaries. She started getting some professional help. She finally realized it "wasn't her fault" when she was being physically and emotionally abused and it wasn't "okay." When she entered the relationship with Lindsey she had no strength, in my opinion, no sense of self worth. She was, really, quite a pathetic human being. She was defective. Lindsey and Carol didn't buy a cat together. He presented her with one, as one would do with a child on Christmas or something.

I think of the lyrics of one of Stevie's songs: what you did not need was a woman who was stronger. You needed someone to depend on you. I could not be her baby. I did not want to. My first mistake was to smile at you.

With Carol Ann, Lindsey thought he was getting what he wanted. A dependent. Someone very pretty, sweet, loving, obedient- someone that would love him unconditionally and be there just for him. He didn't want someone that ruled her life like a bird in flight, so to speak. I don't know a lot about what Lindsey's experiences were with girls when he was little. He didn't have sisters. He may have thought they were sugar and spice, etc. He may have been raised to believe "men, men, men men men" are the rulers of the home and women were there to help them. I think having been around some women, having done some growing, having had his own therapy, Lindsey's also changed.

He has always been the musical genious for Fleetwood Mac. But I believe he's changed, he's grown up, and he's able to see a woman as a partner now. And I think he's also found the adoring dependent females he's always been looking for. And when I look at this picture that Nico kindly posted, I think he realizes how lucky he is:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/LBandkids07.jpg

He's found that little dependent girl (twice over!) that will always look up to him, always listen to him, be sweet, loving, obedient . . . well, until they reach their teens. ;) And at that time he won't want them to be passive, dependent, unworldly. He would never allow anyone to raise a hand to them. He'll want them strong.

[gretchen]

Windy Sails

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Kelly]

My mistake :sorry:



No, it is the same - apparently to me and many others because they are not doing it just through the music. They are perpetuating it (the romance, the hey day, etc. ) during interviews and rote movements onstage to make a buck and to sell what is not really that saleable anymore without it - and they know it. So, I say if they can comment in that genre on that era and all that went on, so can Carol Ann, no matter how wrong her memory may be. After all, she was there and it is her story to tell as well. I mean certainly all of FM has misremembered more than one detail and certainly they all have said things out of spite born in scorn :shrug: But, to each their own.

Interestingly, if Carol Ann had praised La Nicks and LB - even if untrue - I do not think we would be having this conversation.

I get the sense you just hate her and she can do nothing right. But and again, to each their own :cool:


As usual, your senses are wrong. ;) I don't hate her, never implied that I hate her. I dislike her motivations for writing the book. Nothing more, nothing less. She seems quite nice on the Rumours Japan footage, albeit a bit meek and mild. After rereading my posts in this thread, I am confused why you would have the sense I hate her anyway. My posts are actually pretty tame compared to some opinions about CA. I didn't like when Mick wrote his tell all book either but that doesn't mean I "hate him". Or that Stevie didn't write any songs about him. :p I just question why Ca felt the need to write the book, at this point in her life, when LB has little kids and appears happily married. :shrug: I know he is not a saint, I never thought he was a saint and I am aware it is CA's story to tell. I just cringe at some of the details she felt it necessary to include...esp when I think about Will perhaps stumbling upon them one day. I know, I know, I know.. that there is plenty of scandal involving FM and SnL that they kids will find out about sooner or later.

[strandinthewind]

. . . I just question why Ca felt the need to write the book, at this point in her life, when LB has little kids and appears happily married. :shrug: . . . .


I believe she has been trying to get this book out for many years, but has been blocked from doing that for whatever reason. So, I think the book in theory was going to be released five or so years ago. I think from that vantage point, Ca, like LB and La Nicks, felt that this is a time when they (FM) likely will last be very popular (the SYW tour) . So, Ca, like La Nicks and LB, cashed in on an old story they are all still telling, despite LB and his kids :shrug:

[Tango]

I know he is not a saint, I never thought he was a saint and I am aware it is CA's story to tell. I just cringe at some of the details she felt it necessary to include...esp when I think about Will perhaps stumbling upon them one day. I know, I know, I know.. that there is plenty of scandal involving FM and SnL that they kids will find out about sooner or later.

Carol Ann says she wrote the book for two purposes:

-She's tired of reading and hearing lies about the band. That Fleetwood Mac wrote the soundtrack to our lives and information about that band ought to be true. (One can argue the definitions of true history ad nauseum.)

-She wanted to get the truth out about her life without being misquoted, without things being cut out. She wanted to go on the record once and for all about it.

And I think it's totally fair to add the third reason- since she put her personal time into writing this book, she wishes to be compensated for her written interview. She could have done it for free. She could have done a Q&A on The Penguin, for example. It would never be seen. Rumours sold a lot of albums. There will definitely be some interest in the book. She wants her version of the truth to finally be out there. But when would the timing ever be okay. Not during Fleetwood Mac's hey day. Not while the band was doing Tusk. Not during Mirage. Not during Tango. She waited almost 30 years. Should she wait another 20 to allow the children to grow up? Who would even recall this band? Would she have her own faculties together enough? I'll be surprised if Lindsey or Stevie ever write a book about this band. Mick did. Now there is an outsider's take. Just as with Mick's book, we are free to take it or leave it. Buy it, not buy it. Wonder about it, talk about it, disect it, trash it, critique it. But it's out there. And I appreciate the many critiques that have been made about it. It's fair game.

I think Lindsey's children will inevitably learn about their him and his past. They will learn that he wasn't a saint, that he wasn't perfect, that he did some things that will shame him. That Fleetwood Mac was a band of flawed human beings suddenly made rich by adoring fans. And it will hurt their feelings. They are the innocents. Just as Mick's children were. And they will survive, because they will also know he was the father that loving raised them with a mother that also loves them. And hopefully with the support of good parents they will be strong children. Not passive ones. They won't be the "Lady of Shallott" that Carol Ann felt herself to be. They won't be imprisioned on an island, not looking out the window, not confronting or being a part of real life. (page XIV/introduction).

[Boots]

The thing is...I don't think her book has shed any new light on the history of the band. She fleshes out a few things we as fans already knew, but we are hearing/reading her perception. Maybe its due to my not having finished the book yet, but I haven't really discovered any shocking new stories in this book.

And as for that gorgeous picture that Tango posted...Look at that beautiful family that Lindsey has made! The man has grown. I think those demons left town for good the day his son Will was born. God bless him - what a fabulous time he must be having now.

[Tango]

The thing is...I don't think her book has shed any new light on the history of the band. She fleshes out a few things we as fans already knew, but we are hearing/reading her perception. Maybe its due to my not having finished the book yet, but I haven't really discovered any shocking new stories in this book.

And as for that gorgeous picture that Tango posted...Look at that beautiful family that Lindsey has made! The man has grown. I think those demons left town for good the day his son Will was born. God bless him - what a fabulous time he must be having now.


Nah, Nico posted that pic! I just 'borrowed' it for my post. ;) It's a fabulous picture!

[Betsy]

...I'm getting a bit deeper into the book. It's fascinating and tedious all at the same time...

I take issue with her own portrayal of herself back then. I don't see her as a young woman who had a real plan to be a sound mixer or produer. I see her as a young woman who wanted to go to Hollywood and be part of the glamour...

...there's no doubt that Lindsey loved her and needed her to be with him at all times. However - I think she pats herself way too much on the back ... it makes ther reader (me) lose any sympathy for her.

... I get this sense that Carol ... is tapping into memories of a 20-something girl ... The years have not provided a shadow of wisdom or humility in the telling of this story...

Another negative element in this book, is her way of telling a story. Not all the flowery, pretty prose can mold a biography into place. She would have ... let US figure things out for ourselves ...

... her relationship with Stevie and how she protrays it, is manipulating to the reader. She doesn't write the situations with enough information to let the reader ... figure out Stevie or anyone else in this FM kingdom.

... Stevie took Carol aside to give her some advice on how to handle LB when he's in a violent mood. Carol never really fleshes out what Stevie said to her. Instead, she provides a very biased view of the conversation, where we do not have the slightest clue as to what Stevie said, but we are left feeling that Nicks was being controlling and weird to her.

... Harris' writing is very one dimensional. I don't know who is right or wrong here - I only know I'm being manipulated in siding with a glorified groupie, whose remembrance of incidents from 25 years ago are tainted with the view of a young, not very bright, woman.




This is one of the best book reports/reviews, I have ever read....and I wasn't smart enough to draw it all together like Boots did. This states the frustrations I have with the book and my difficulty in finishing it.

On another matter, I am enjoying this thread and others like it. It is fun to be reading the same book and get so many different opinions and interpretations, and not just about the book but the subject matter as well.

Thanks for making my "hot-as-a-pizza-oven" summer more enjoyable.

[Boots]

This is one of the best book reports/reviews, I have ever read....and I wasn't smart enough to draw it all together like Boots did. This states the frustrations I have with the book and my difficulty in finishing it.

On another matter, I am enjoying this thread and others like it. It is fun to be reading the same book and get so many different opinions and interpretations, and not just about the book but the subject matter as well.

Thanks for making my "hot-as-a-pizza-oven" summer more enjoyable.

Thanks for the compliment on my review, Betsy! You broke it down in a more streamlined fashion. I wrote down my views on the book thus far, but I tend to be verbose. I never write well on bulletin boards. I guess I get a bit lazy. But yeah...those are the views I had...love 'em or leave 'em.

Stay cool wherever you are!

[carol7lynn]

Right on Kelly! I totally agree, and then some, with all of your major points.

And, just as another poster observed, her book does not shed any new light on the Stevie and Lindsey story, so that we may get a better idea of whether or not the two will eventually get back together again.

Frankly, I could care less about her impoverished background, miscarriage, or high school psycho-babble about any of the members of the band. I agree, with another poster above that said, if she had truly wanted to become a sound engineer (or anything other than an extension of a man), she would have made it happen.

It seems to me, that this woman's only ambition, was to hook up with someone/anyone famous in the entertainment field long before she made her momentous, post graduation trip, to Hollywood with her bgf. She probably dreamed of being Mrs. Rock-Star, while running up her high school wardrobe ("to look like store bought clothes": How Ellie Mae can you get?) on her mother's worn-out Singer, while her more gifted siblings, were working their way through college.

Here is a woman who within days of moving to Hollywood, shacks up with the first man she meets/falls for and takes up his felonious career of bootlegging concert albums. And, although, Ms. Harris likes to play the dewy-eyed, selfless, ingenue, in the FWM story, it takes a calculating woman to give up her first born child (a girl) for adoption, because she doesn't want to face up to the fact that she had a child out of wedlock, at a time when she was not financially able to take care of it. The child came second to her need to be in Hollywood pursuing a career that was undefined until she met her first Hollywood (con) artist. Otherwise she would have gotten a better paying job and sucked it in and toughed it out. I'm sure the daughter would have rather had her mother's love than a chance "at a college education."

Again, Lindsey's artistic musings and biographical anecdotes about her, never approached the level of spite, that her tell-on-you stories do in this book. She loved him so much that she waited until he put her in a neck brace before she left him (martyr that she was), but she left her daughter before she was even born (selfish as she was.) The woman is a self-righteous, amoral PIG.:eek: She reminds me of Angela Bowie dishing it for a dollar after David dumped her. And, where o' where is Angie now.

In short, this book has nothing to do with "Storms" within the FWM family, but everything to do with the fact that CA wasted eight or more years of her life, pursuing a man who wouldn't even marry her. She comes across as a bitter "Girl From Yesterday" that is bound and determined to get even and to also get back some of the FWM glory and money that she had grown so used to enjoying some twenty odd years ago.


CarolC

[lieueitak]

it takes a calculating woman to give up her first born child (a girl) for adoption, because she doesn't want to face up to the fact that she had a child out of wedlock, at a time when she was not financially able to take care of it. The child came second to her need to be in Hollywood pursuing a career that was undefined until she met her first Hollywood (con) artist. Otherwise she would have gotten a better paying job and sucked it in and toughed it out. I'm sure the daughter would have rather had her mother's love than a chance "at a college education."

Let me preface this by saying two things: one, I'm not a huge fan of CAH, and two, I haven't read her book. And maybe if I do read her book, I'll feel differently, but I am honestly shocked at what a few people have said about Carol Ann placing her child up for adoption. Being a parent means that you must be willing to sacrifice your own happiness and needs for the benefit of your child. And sometimes, the best decision a woman/man/couple can make is knowing that she/he/they cannot provide those things for tir baby.

Even if CAH was uncomfortable with the idea of having a baby out of wedlock, in the end, if she really wanted to be a mother, she would have. I expect, like most difficult decisions in life, this one was not made lightly. And certainly, there's nothing wrong with putting your child up for adoption so that he/she may have a better life with someone else.

A question: does Carol Ann say/know what happened to her biological child? Because if not, then I think it's really wrong to say that this baby never had her mother's love. Carol Ann may be the biological mother, but if this little girl was adopted, then the only mother who matters is the one who raised her. I myself am adopted, and I have never once felt as though I had been robbed. My parents are the people who raised me, who loved me, who helped me through the hard times.

I know that a lot of people don't like CAH. I'm one of them, but I don't think it's necessary to find evil in every little thing she has done. Maybe she did give her child up for lame reasons. But if that's true, then she very obviously was not ready to make the sacrifices inherent in being a parent. In other words, she would have done the right thing for her child, and I don't see any reason to fault her for that. Especially when there are way better reasons to hate her. :thumbsup:

[Tango]

Let me preface this by saying two things: one, I'm not a huge fan of CAH, and two, I haven't read her book. And maybe if I do read her book, I'll feel differently, but I am honestly shocked at what a few people have said about Carol Ann placing her child up for adoption. Being a parent means that you must be willing to sacrifice your own happiness and needs for the benefit of your child. And sometimes, the best decision a woman/man/couple can make is knowing that she/he/they cannot provide those things for tir baby.

Even if CAH was uncomfortable with the idea of having a baby out of wedlock, in the end, if she really wanted to be a mother, she would have. I expect, like most difficult decisions in life, this one was not made lightly. And certainly, there's nothing wrong with putting your child up for adoption so that he/she may have a better life with someone else.

A question: does Carol Ann say/know what happened to her biological child? Because if not, then I think it's really wrong to say that this baby never had her mother's love. Carol Ann may be the biological mother, but if this little girl was adopted, then the only mother who matters is the one who raised her. I myself am adopted, and I have never once felt as though I had been robbed. My parents are the people who raised me, who loved me, who helped me through the hard times.

I know that a lot of people don't like CAH. I'm one of them, but I don't think it's necessary to find evil in every little thing she has done. Maybe she did give her child up for lame reasons. But if that's true, then she very obviously was not ready to make the sacrifices inherent in being a parent. In other words, she would have done the right thing for her child, and I don't see any reason to fault her for that. Especially when there are way better reasons to hate her. :thumbsup:


I agree with you. The decision that Carol Ann Harris made was not simplistic and selfish. The author speaks of what happened to the baby on page 4 of the book. The baby girl had a name. I cannot fault any woman for this anguished decision. "For on the day I signed the adoption papers, a part of me died, and was still dead." At the end of the book, page 373, she not only was reunited with her daughter, but invited and attended her wedding.


So clearly and early in this book it becomes clear that Carol Ann was not strong, not healthy- rather, pathologically passive. "From that moment we lived life on John's terms." When she was wronged, she never confronted it, never discussed it. And the cycle continued.

[trackaghost]

Great post lieueitak, I completely agree.

As for the arguments that CAH doesn't give the full picture in regards her relationship with Stevie, well the very nature of an autobiography is that it's bias. This is very much her view of Stevie, and let's face it the two were very much rivals, they were never going to be best friends, so of course her impression of Stevie isn't going to be as flattering as a friend or fan writing about her, if it had been I would have been shocked. I have no doubt Stevie isn't as bad as she makes out on some things, but she's probably more spot on and honest about other things than someone in the Stevie circle, it goes both ways. If you go into any autobiography expecting a well-rounded picture then you are always going to be disappointed, as it's always going to be one person's take or opinion on things.

I also agree with Strand in that, while the book is obviously a cash-in, it's still her life and she has every right to tell it, as flawed as it may be.

And carol7lynn if you have no interest whatever in CAH's life then I have no clue why you just read her autobiography, since that's what an autobiography is: the story of someone's life, her's just happened to be involved with the Fleetwood Mac machine for a long time.

her book does not shed any new light on the Stevie and Lindsey story, so that we may get a better idea of whether or not the two will eventually get back together again.

If you bought the book thinking that's what it was going to do then no wonder you're so pissed off about it. You really just need to accept they are never going to get back together, all the hugging and flirting on stage during the last tour was an act!

I'm not really a fan of CAH, I think she's a flake and her writing isn't going to win her any awards, but I do think it's a interesting insight to the Mac's world from a first-hand witness, and sorta refreshing after that dreadful Stevie biography last year.

[strandinthewind]

. . . I also agree with Strand in that, while the book is obviously a cash-in, it's still her life and she has every right to tell it, as flawed as it may be.

Great minds . . . . :D

And carol7lynn if you have no interest whatever in CAH's life then I have no clue why you just read her autobiography

Like watching a train wreck for we devoted ones :angel:

[jbrownsjr]

Great minds . . . . :D



Like watching a train wreck for we devoted ones :angel:

hey i said the same thing too!!!! :(

[mgikallaroundme]

I only know I'm being manipulated

You better believe it. :nod: If FM fans ever got the real story of Carol Ann Harris your heads would all explode. :laugh:


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

[danax6]

And, just as another poster observed, her book does not shed any new light on the Stevie and Lindsey story, so that we may get a better idea of whether or not the two will eventually get back together again.
Is that honestly what you expected from this book? :shocked:

[strandinthewind]

hey i said the same thing too!!!! :(

True and I am a cad ;)

[jbrownsjr]

True and I am a cad ;)

i feel so validated now!! i think i'll write a book about it...:rolleyes:

[sarafield]

I read the book (skimming some parts) and have to say something really struck me. She is constantly touting her sarcastic sense of humor - her great sense of humor - in the book. Is there even a photo of her anywhere with a big smile? There must be, but I haven't seen it. She looks downright morose in every photo I've ever seen, and in the Japan footage God she just seems like a total personality-less downer. She's gorgeous, for sure, but this sparkling personality she supposedly had doesn't come through on camera. Unless someone's seen different, which is quite possible.

I also felt the book spent far too much time on the myriad instances of her and Lindsey making fun of Stevie. I think the whole band spent time making fun of Stevie - must have been hard not to, she sort of invites it sometimes and she was the "little sister" of the band - but seems like every few pages there is a passage about her and Lindsey laughing hysterically over ridiculous Stevie.

Perhaps Lindsey never did confide in CA over his feelings about Stevie - after all, "I'm not over my last girlfriend" isn't a really hot thing to say to one's current gf - but you'd think after eight years, they'd have had one serious conversation about Stevie. Lindsey, and everyone, KNEW about Stevie and Mick's affair while it was going on and no one cared? Really? CA and Lindsey never spoke about the fact that Stevie was bonking Mick? Really? How is this possible? I just find it hard to believe that two people, supposedly so in love, on cocaine all the time, never spoke about this.

[carol7lynn]

I stand by what I said. The woman has no morals. Excuses are meant to justify the unjustifiable. If you can't support a kid you shouldn't have them and there is no excuse for "accidental" pregnancies. I never wanted children and so I never got pregnant. Abstinence does work, and so does birth control. But you have to take responsibility for your body and educate yourself on how to effectively use it; especially if you can not afford to have a child.

Back in the 1970s, when I was in college, I didn't rely on the doctor at Planned Parenthood to educate me on how to avoid pregnancies, I went to the library and did my research. I wanted to have fun, travel, finish college and start a career so I "controlled" myself. And, I continued that practice all during my reproductive years as a married career woman and avoided accidents that way. Preventive medicine is always "less costly" than curative.

Responsible people know that, they alone, are accountable for their actions/behavior. That is what growing up is all about. If CA had been a minor at the time, I could have understood, her giving the child up for adoption so that she could finish school and establish herself in a legitimate career. But she had already left home, was shacking up with a man she hardly new (before moving in with him) and was un-apologetically engaging in felonious activities just to pay the rent and pay for her cigarettes.

Women like her make me ashamed of my own gender. Again, it's no wonder Stevie did not treat her like a "sister of the moon." Stevie had nothing to fear from this woman as she, like so many of her kind, blame everyone but themselves for what happens to them. She got what she asked for-kicked to the curb. The Stones wrote a song about her type in the 1960s which I find personifies CA to a T:

OUT OF TIME
(Jagger/Richards)

You don't know what's going on
You've been away for far too long
You can't come back and think you are still mine
You're out of touch, my baby
My poor discarded baby
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time

Well, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
You are all left out
Out of there without a doubt
'Cause baby, baby, baby, you're out of time

You thought you were a clever girl
Giving up your social whirl
But you can't come back and be the first in line, oh no
You're obsolete my baby
My poor old-fashioned baby
I said baby, baby, baby you're out of time

:sorry:
CarolC:nod:

[trackaghost]

I stand by what I said. The woman has no morals....

Women like her make me ashamed of my own gender. Again, it's no wonder Stevie did not treat her like a "sister of the moon." Stevie had nothing to fear from this woman as she, like so many of her kind, blame everyone but themselves for what happens to them. She got what she asked for-kicked to the curb.

Wow, what a lovely non-judgmental person you are!

Yeah, no wonder Stevie didn't treat her like a "sister of the moon", Stevie didn't give up her unwanted babies up for adoption she just had abortions instead :rolleyes:

Again, why are you reading this book? Just to fuel your hatred of this woman?

Btw, it really made me laugh that you posted lyrics by those bastions of morality, The Rolling Stones, to prove your point lol!

[lieueitak]

Excuses are meant to justify the unjustifiable. If you can't support a kid you shouldn't have them and there is no excuse for "accidental" pregnancies. I don't understand how an unplanned pregnancy is "unjustifiable." I don't understand how anyone could believe that Carol Ann's child would be better off being raised by her. Her book may not be completely accurate, but I think we all know what kind of environment she would have exposed her child to, had she raised her: drugs, possible domestic violence, etc. It seems like Carol could barely take care of herself in any real way. How could anyone believe that child would be better off in that situation?

Abstinence does work, and so does birth control. But you have to take responsibility for your body and educate yourself on how to effectively use it; especially if you can not afford to have a child. How is putting your child up for adoption not a form of taking responsibility? Abstinence works, sure, but it's all dependent on both parties respecting that boundary. Sometimes, they willingly don't (and naturally, with rape, someone has crossed that line). Birth control also works, but it's not 100%. And it's not always a lack of education that makes it fail. Efficacy is lessened when mixed with certain medicines (not always warned about on labels or by doctors). Or if you don't take it at the right time, that can lessen the efficacy. In theory, Carol Ann could have taken all the precautions, and she still might have ended up pregnant.

If you want to fault her for not doing that, then fine. But "mistakes" happened, and she ended up pregnant. There's no need to belabor that point. It's what she did after finding out that she was pregnant that matters. She could have had an abortion, absolutely. She could have raised the child on her own. Or she could, perhaps most responsibly, placed the child up for adoption so that the baby would be raised in love and in a safe environment.

But she had already left home, was shacking up with a man she hardly new (before moving in with him) and was un-apologetically engaging in felonious activities just to pay the rent and pay for her cigarettes. Ah, yes, then we should definitely fault Carol for placing the little girl up for adoption. In a better world, Carol Ann would have realized that the things she was doing weren't great. She would have shaped up and gotten her life together, raised her daughter on her own, and never met Lindsey Buckingham -- thus sparing us her book. :p There are women who do get their lives together, and that's admirable. But Carol didn't and so, adoption was the best option. Sometimes responsibility is about knowing when you cannot do something (hence, I will never perform brain surgery). Sometimes, being responsible is knowing that you're in over your head and asking for help.

Again, it's no wonder Stevie did not treat her like a "sister of the moon." Stevie had nothing to fear from this woman as she, like so many of her kind, blame everyone but themselves for what happens to them. And yet, isn't that one of the main criticisms people make about Stevie? How many people on this board have said that Stevie doesn't really take responsibility for her drug addictions? I make that point, not because I agree with that criticism, but because no one in this band is perfect. As fans, we are able to write off some of their character flaws because we love their music and the people they've become.

And I'm not surprised Carol Ann has written the book with a "woe is me" take on it. The majority of things we've heard about Carol Ann previously has been... well, negative, lol. After everything that's been said about her, of course, she'd want to say how innocent she was and such.

Besides -- the main draw of an autobiography/insider's tale is seeing his/her account of events and how he/she sees him/herself. Even in her "lies," we're learning a lot about who Carol Ann is and how she sees herself. The same can be said for Mick Fleetwood's book, as well as any interview Lindsey, Stevie, John, and Christine have ever given. Fleetwood Mac's dynamics are complicated, to say the least. And I think, because of drugs and/or every psychological coping mechanism known to man, we'll never know exactly what happened at any given moment within the band. :nod:

Stevie didn't give up her unwanted babies up for adoption she just had abortions instead :wavey: My thoughts exactly.

[jbrownsjr]

I stand by what I said. The woman has no morals. Excuses are meant to justify the unjustifiable. If you can't support a kid you shouldn't have them and there is no excuse for "accidental" pregnancies. I never wanted children and so I never got pregnant. Abstinence does work, and so does birth control. But you have to take responsibility for your body and educate yourself on how to effectively use it; especially if you can not afford to have a child.

Back in the 1970s, when I was in college, I didn't rely on the doctor at Planned Parenthood to educate me on how to avoid pregnancies, I went to the library and did my research. I wanted to have fun, travel, finish college and start a career so I "controlled" myself. And, I continued that practice all during my reproductive years as a married career woman and avoided accidents that way. Preventive medicine is always "less costly" than curative.

Responsible people know that, they alone, are accountable for their actions/behavior. That is what growing up is all about. If CA had been a minor at the time, I could have understood, her giving the child up for adoption so that she could finish school and establish herself in a legitimate career. But she had already left home, was shacking up with a man she hardly new (before moving in with him) and was un-apologetically engaging in felonious activities just to pay the rent and pay for her cigarettes.

Women like her make me ashamed of my own gender. Again, it's no wonder Stevie did not treat her like a "sister of the moon." Stevie had nothing to fear from this woman as she, like so many of her kind, blame everyone but themselves for what happens to them. She got what she asked for-kicked to the curb. The Stones wrote a song about her type in the 1960s which I find personifies CA to a T:



i dont know what to say to this except that i just threw up in my mouth a little after reading it...

[carrie721]

Is that honestly what you expected from this book? :shocked:

well, that quote should be indicative of how much credibility we should give to carolc's opinion.

[carrie721]

questions for carol7lynn:

unplanned pregnancies do happen - what world are you living in? rape happens, condoms break, the pill is not 100% effective. yes, abstinence works - are you suggesting that CAH should never have had sex? or that you never have? what would you have prefered CAH do once she realized she was pregnant? as others have pointed out, we do not know that CAH did not take every precaution necessary to avoid pregnancy. her options were to ...

1) have an abortion
2) completely rearrange her life, future plans, etc for a child she wasn't expecting
3) refuse to rearrange her life and raise her child in an unhealthy environment
4) give her child up for adoption to a family that desperately wants a child and who has jumped through hoops to get one.

hmmmm ...

[Tango]

I stand by what I said. The woman has no morals.
:sorry:
CarolC:nod:

I'm trying hard to follow what you are saying. It almost seems like an ad hominem argument- that nothing this woman has to say is reliable because she gave her baby up for adoption? Maybe I am totally reading you wrong. Women's right to choose? Women like <I>her</I> make you ashamed? <I>her type?</I> She didn't get kicked to the curb. She walked away. It took a while, and it took some promptings from a physician who urged her to break the cycle of violence she was living in, who said to her:

"I want to tell you something and I hope that you'll hear my words and think long and hard about it. And what I want to say is this: I see a lot of women come in here with injuries done to them by their husbands or boyfriends and they always go back to their men. And then I've seen a few of the same women come in again- and it's too late for me to help them. They leave here in a body bag. It's not going to stop, Miss Harris. It's going to get worse. I know that you think you love him and that you can stop it, but I honestly doubt if you can. This is very serious, and you need to protect yourself. You need to leave him. Just think about it, OK?"
Storms: My Life With Lindsey Buckingham and Fleetwood Mac (by Carol Ann Harris, page 355.)

Whether you like it or not, it's her right to speak about it, and her story to tell. Christine witnessed it. The young woman was seen in the hospital with marks around her neck, injuries to her scalp. One could imply Stevie tried to talk to her about it. Mick wrote about it. To attack her for seeing to the safe raising of her baby is wrong. This woman revealed a lot of ugliness that most women hide forever, as they are ashamed and think they did wrong and deserved it. I think this book really shows how much Carol Ann Harris has grown, whether I like it or not.


I guess we don't believe
That things could go that far
We all believe in people...
That we think believe in God
Somewhere in the night...
Someone feels the pain
The ones who walk away
Try to love again...
~Stevie Nicks

She walked away. Good for her! And Lindsey got help. He also changed! They BOTH changed! Yes, this book dredges up some ugliness. It provides insights that we never knew before. And it's unsettling. It's chilling. But I do believe her.

[danax6]

well, that quote should be indicative of how much credibility we should give to carolc's opinion.I cannot believe we're actually debating this. It doesn't have anything to do with Stevie, Fleetwood Mac or any of that. Judging her based on that incident and comparing it to how she conducted herself later on is just wrong.

There is no excuse for accidental pregnancies? Gimme a break.

[carrie721]

I cannot believe we're actually debating this. It doesn't have anything to do with Stevie, Fleetwood Mac or any of that. Judging her based on that incident and comparing it to how she conducted herself later on is just wrong.

There is no excuse for accidental pregnancies? Gimme a break.

no, you're right, it's ridiculous. what's even more utterly ridiculous is carol's suggestion that because CAH put her child up for adoption, she is completely amoral and therefore not entitled to tell her story. i must echo sharon: why the hell did you buy this book? :shrug: i just can't believe how ridiculous you sound.

[WelshWitchPMD]

Oh, and since somebody brought up the Sara/Beverlee conversations, let's not forget how they talked about Stevie's jealous streak when they brought up that apparantly Lindsey and Beverlee hooked up at some point also.


Does anyone have these to post or PM to me? I'd love to hear them. ;)

[sasja]

I stand by what I said. The woman has no morals. Excuses are meant to justify the unjustifiable. If you can't support a kid you shouldn't have them and there is no excuse for "accidental" pregnancies. I never wanted children and so I never got pregnant. Abstinence does work, and so does birth control. But you have to take responsibility for your body and educate yourself on how to effectively use it; especially if you can not afford to have a child.

Back in the 1970s, when I was in college, I didn't rely on the doctor at Planned Parenthood to educate me on how to avoid pregnancies, I went to the library and did my research. I wanted to have fun, travel, finish college and start a career so I "controlled" myself. And, I continued that practice all during my reproductive years as a married career woman and avoided accidents that way. Preventive medicine is always "less costly" than curative.

Responsible people know that, they alone, are accountable for their actions/behavior. That is what growing up is all about. If CA had been a minor at the time, I could have understood, her giving the child up for adoption so that she could finish school and establish herself in a legitimate career. But she had already left home, was shacking up with a man she hardly new (before moving in with him) and was un-apologetically engaging in felonious activities just to pay the rent and pay for her cigarettes.

Women like her make me ashamed of my own gender. Again, it's no wonder Stevie did not treat her like a "sister of the moon." Stevie had nothing to fear from this woman as she, like so many of her kind, blame everyone but themselves for what happens to them. She got what she asked for-kicked to the curb. The Stones wrote a song about her type in the 1960s which I find personifies CA to a T:

OUT OF TIME
(Jagger/Richards)

You don't know what's going on
You've been away for far too long
You can't come back and think you are still mine
You're out of touch, my baby
My poor discarded baby
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time

Well, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
I said, baby, baby, baby, you're out of time
You are all left out
Out of there without a doubt
'Cause baby, baby, baby, you're out of time

You thought you were a clever girl
Giving up your social whirl
But you can't come back and be the first in line, oh no
You're obsolete my baby
My poor old-fashioned baby
I said baby, baby, baby you're out of time

:sorry:
CarolC:nod:

Oh wow. Brrr!! I just have to say you sound like someone I'd not enjoy so much around me. Or around my children for that matter.
I was looking for the word to describe how you come across to me in that post, and I will just give you the whole slew of them as they all fit: unsympathetic, unkind, icy, stony, callous, and uncaring. And on top of it, convinced of your own moral superiority.

I hope your Career Life is giving you great satisfaction as I have a hard time imagining your personal life does.

Sasja (Career woman, with friends, a husband, a sex-life AND children by choice)

[BTFLCHLD]

I read the book and quite enjoyed it. I don't doubt what she has written as her experience.

GOD. I love Lindsey! :]

[catinthedark]

I stand by what I said. The woman has no morals. Excuses are meant to justify the unjustifiable. If you can't support a kid you shouldn't have them and there is no excuse for "accidental" pregnancies. I never wanted children and so I never got pregnant. Abstinence does work, and so does birth control. But you have to take responsibility for your body and educate yourself on how to effectively use it; especially if you can not afford to have a child.

Back in the 1970s, when I was in college, I didn't rely on the doctor at Planned Parenthood to educate me on how to avoid pregnancies, I went to the library and did my research. I wanted to have fun, travel, finish college and start a career so I "controlled" myself. And, I continued that practice all during my reproductive years as a married career woman and avoided accidents that way. Preventive medicine is always "less costly" than curative.

Responsible people know that, they alone, are accountable for their actions/behavior. That is what growing up is all about. If CA had been a minor at the time, I could have understood, her giving the child up for adoption so that she could finish school and establish herself in a legitimate career. But she had already left home, was shacking up with a man she hardly new (before moving in with him) and was un-apologetically engaging in felonious activities just to pay the rent and pay for her cigarettes.

Women like her make me ashamed of my own gender.


holy crap. get off your f*ckin high horse. or else ride it on out of here. you have no right to lecture or judge - either her or anyone here.

you had clearly already made up your mind about CAH before you read this book. fine. i don't care about that. but truly, how exactly can you prove she is anymore wrong, than you can prove she is right?

[jbrownsjr]

I read the book and quite enjoyed it. I don't doubt what she has written as her experience.

GOD. I love Lindsey! :]

Good, i'm glad it's a good read... the only thing i fear is like what Dana said... inaccuracies will make me not believe the other stuff.... not sure when my copy will arrive...

[Michelle Daya]

the level of intolerance is f__king astounding. lb is not a victim. he chose someone to have a relationship with, live with, spend 7 years with, love and eventually leave. those were his choices. i admire & respect him as a musician but there is no doubt he was not a saint. yes, he has ragged on women from his past in his music & it's blatant, & in interviews. cah has a right to write about it. it's called freedom of speech. she's exercising it & it doesn't make her a bitch, a whore or trash. just as anyone here who is spewing venom is their choice. cah's integrity was questioned and decided long before thiis book came out. why? she dared not to make lb happy, to be his god-forbid ex, to not be stevie nicks. she did drugs. so did he. if it weren't for him, she might never have. yeah, her life got messed up & if she feels the need to write about it, she should. lb's a big boy. i'm sure with everything he's experienced in his 30+ years in rock, his ex's book isn't going to be the thing that rocks him to his core. & as for what anyone's afraid his kids will read, what about what gets written here? his kids are more likely to check out the net then pick up a copy of daddy's ex's book. & putting her down for pregnancy issues? stevie. abortions. ring any bells? but that's ok. she's stevie nicks. wow. just wow.

[Kelly]

the level of intolerance is f__king astounding. lb is not a victim. he chose someone to have a relationship with, live with, spend 7 years with, love and eventually leave. those were his choices. i admire & respect him as a musician but there is no doubt he was not a saint. yes, he has ragged on women from his past in his music & it's blatant, & in interviews. cah has a right to write about it. it's called freedom of speech. she's exercising it & it doesn't make her a bitch, a whore or trash. just as anyone here who is spewing venom is their choice. cah's integrity was questioned and decided long before thiis book came out. why? she dared not to make lb happy, to be his god-forbid ex, to not be stevie nicks. she did drugs. so did he. if it weren't for him, she might never have. yeah, her life got messed up & if she feels the need to write about it, she should. lb's a big boy. i'm sure with everything he's experienced in his 30+ years in rock, his ex's book isn't going to be the thing that rocks him to his core. & as for what anyone's afraid his kids will read, what about what gets written here? his kids are more likely to check out the net then pick up a copy of daddy's ex's book. & putting her down for pregnancy issues? stevie. abortions. ring any bells? but that's ok. she's stevie nicks. wow. just wow.


So, because his kids may also see stuff about Daddy on the internet, that justifies her writing in detail about LB trying to strangle her? :shrug:

If she "loved him so deeply" and they had this fabulous seven year romance, where is her loyalty? Where is all the devotion she writes about so much in her book? I dated someone for seven years in College and post, and I still have maintain some level of loyalty to our old relationship. I do not feel the need to tell my husband all the sordid little details of what may or may not have went on in our PERSONAL relationship. I still feel protective towards what we shared. :nod: You keep comparing CA to Stevie and Lindsey's relationship, something not many of us in this thread have even done. :shrug: I do think Lindsey's quotes on his relationship with CAH are relevant, even if you do not. HE SAID that only the first "year or two" with Cheri was any good, but yet stayed with her for almost a decade. HE SAID that he "allowed his relationship with CA to continue even though he knew it was doomed". HE SAID that the "spectre of Stevie disabled several long term relationships he had". (CAH and Cheri, presumably)
People like Ken Callait, who actually witnessed Carol and Lindsey together have said things like "I never thought that relationship was gonna work out. I have seen him with several women and they all ended very unhappily". You choose to believe CA's representation of her fairy tale romance with LB, but discount alot of other valid opinions, including Lindsey's own interpretation of the relationship. That makes no sense to me and is pretty ****ing appauling. :nod: I have nothing against the woman personally, but I think there are so many blatant falsehoods in her book, I have a hard time believing any of it. Christine, Stevie, Lindsey and Annie L. have all talked about what happened during the infamous Rolling Stone cover shoot and CA tells a completely different tale. :rolleyes:

OT..but why is it necessary to bring up Stevie's alledged abortions in a discussion about CA? One or two people slam Carol, so slamming Stevie is the response? Apples and oranges.

[carol7lynn]

As usual Kelly, you hit the nail on the head. Kudos.:]

There are always people who just don't "get it." Frankly, this thread has gone way far a field. The point is, Carol Ann Harris was never a member of the band and is a truly immoral person of questionable character for spitefully betraying the trust of the Mac-members et al at this late date. Her observations are, therefore, not worth the paper that they are printed on. If anyone wants to buy the book, fine, but I for one would not pay one red cent for this trash. Once again,the woman is a PIG.

CarolC

[Tango]

So, because his kids may also see stuff about Daddy on the internet, that justifies her writing in detail about LB trying to strangle her? :shrug:

If she "loved him so deeply" and they had this fabulous seven year romance, where is her loyalty? Where is all the devotion she writes about so much in her book? I dated someone for seven years in College and post, and I still have maintain some level of loyalty to our old relationship. I do not feel the need to tell my husband all the sordid little details of what may or may not have went on in our PERSONAL relationship. I still feel protective towards what we shared. :nod: You keep comparing CA to Stevie and Lindsey's relationship, something not many of us in this thread have even done. :shrug: I do think Lindsey's quotes on his relationship with CAH are relevant, even if you do not. HE SAID that only the first "year or two" with Cheri was any good, but yet stayed with her for almost a decade. HE SAID that he "allowed his relationship with CA to continue even though he knew it was doomed". HE SAID that the "spectre of Stevie disabled several long term relationships he had". (CAH and Cheri, presumably)
People like Ken Callait, who actually witnessed Carol and Lindsey together have said things like "I never thought that relationship was gonna work out. I have seen him with several women and they all ended very unhappily". You choose to believe CA's representation of her fairy tale romance with LB, but discount alot of other valid opinions, including Lindsey's own interpretation of the relationship. That makes no sense to me and is pretty ****ing appauling. :nod: I have nothing against the woman personally, but I think there are so many blatant falsehoods in her book, I have a hard time believing any of it. Christine, Stevie, Lindsey and Annie L. have all talked about what happened during the infamous Rolling Stone cover shoot and CA tells a completely different tale. :rolleyes:

OT..but why is it necessary to bring up Stevie's alledged abortions in a discussion about CA? One or two people slam Carol, so slamming Stevie is the response? Apples and oranges.

Some of your criticisms are quite fair. I think there was a time when Carol Ann Harris loved Lindsey. But she perhaps grew to hate the Lindsey that abused her, the Lindsey that we have never known, the Lindsey on the combination of cocaine and alcohol. At first she merely feared him, and cowered from him in those moments. Still, it's her story to tell as a survivor of domestic abuse, her right to write about it. Again, we are free to take from it what we want. I believe they both not only survived, but changed. I really believe the end of the book shows that. I think Lindsey's new life shows where he is, too.

Everyone has their own slant on history. The Rolling Stone cover shoot minutiae differs, just as any group of individual historical records differ. Witnesses at crime scenes all differ in what they saw, what they heard, the timing of events. Particularly when they are events from long ago, or when they have their own slant to get across, their particular axe to grind. But the gestalt of what they were all saying about that shoot seems very close.

I'm looking at another piece of Fleetwood Mac history, the New Zealand show- around 1980?

Mick says: (My Life & Adventures in Fleetwood Mac, 1990, page 229)
"Then, while she was hunched over, upstage of Lindsey, during her "Rhiannon" performance, he stopped playing and pulled his jacket over his head in a grotesque imitation of her pose. At that ponit he lost all control, playing anything except "Rhiannon," laughing like a mad man. Then he started to kick Stevie while she was trying to salvage the number. Sixty thousand people were watching!

Stevie says: "Rolling Stone," October 30, 1997, Issue 772 by Fred Schruers
"Lindsey was angry - just mad at me," recalls Nicks. "That wasn't a one-time thing. Lindsey and I had another huge thing that happened onstage in New Zealand. We had some kind of a fight, and he came over - might have kicked me, did something to me, and we stopped the show. He went off, and we all ran at breakneck speed back to the dressing room to see who could kill him first. Christine got to him first, and then I got to him second - the bodyguards were trying to get in the middle of all of us."

Lindsey, in that same article says:
Without quite denying such incidents, Buckingham looks genuinely a bit puzzled to hear them played back. "What I do remember," he says, "is a show where I purposely sang much of the set out of tune. We got offstage, and everyone was irate, obviously. They were talking about firing me and getting Clapton. Very well founded, because it was not a professional thing to do."

Carol Ann wasn't there, but she was certainly a part of that group. She was friends with Sara who did witness it, friends with others that were in the band as well: Storms: My Life with Lindsey Buckingham and Fleetwood Mac, 2007, page 285:
"He followed her around in grotesque imitation, intentionally playing the wrong parts on his solo guitar song after song. And then, before anyone could even try to stop him, he started kicking out at her with his heavy cowboy boots, doing his best to land blows on her unprotected legs--and when he did, the kick seemed to stun her.

The audience was also stunned, Sara said. Stevie frantically tried to stay away from him steel-toed cowboy boots and the whole show fell apart."

As recent as 2003 is Lindsey is taking responsibility publicly: "MOJO" (12/2003), Take it to the Limit, (The Penguin, BLA)
Buckingham can’t remember the events, but says, with bemusement: “Oh, I wouldn’t doubt that I mimicked Stevie on-stage. And kicked her? That could have happened too.”

It's a horrible drugged up, crazy history- the entire band has their demons. It's nothing Lindsey ever wanted to talk about. They may both still have a lot history to apologise for to each other in the future- maybe they have already done that.

[trackaghost]

OT..but why is it necessary to bring up Stevie's alledged abortions in a discussion about CA? One or two people slam Carol, so slamming Stevie is the response? Apples and oranges.

No one here is slamming Stevie, she did what she had to do.
carol7lynn basically claimed people who have unwanted pregnancies are immoral, Stevie had several, I just find it odd that she judges CAH giving up her child for adoption but not Stevie for her unwanted pregnancies.



There are always people who just don't "get it." Frankly, this thread has gone way far a field. The point is, Carol Ann Harris was never a member of the band and is a truly immoral person of questionable character for spitefully betraying the trust of the Mac-members et al at this late date. Her observations are, therefore, not worth the paper that they are printed on. If anyone wants to buy the book, fine, but I for one would not pay one red cent for this trash. Once again,the woman is a PIG.

CarolC

I think it's you who just doesn't get it dear
Now are you ever going to answer my question about exactly why you're reading this book, or indeed the questions Carrie asked you?

[carrie721]

I think it's you who just doesn't get it dear
Now are you ever going to answer my question about exactly why you're reading this book, or indeed the questions Carrie asked you?

she said several posts back that she was reading because she wanted to know whether or not stevie and lindsey are getting back together. y'know, stevie, who's always been too busy for a man, and lindsey, who's married with kids. that stevie and lindsey :laugh:

i still find the idea that CAH = amoral therefore she cannot tell her story to be an odd argument. lindsey has done some amoral things himself and yet no one here is saying he shouldn't release his music or tell HIS story. clearly there is demand for this book :shrug:

it's just a shame you're so self-righteous about this, carol. i think it's fantastic that you were so vigilant about not getting pregnant, but rather than spewing your judgmental bile about how there are no accidental pregnancies, maybe you should just feel blessed that you never had to make that choice.

[Sahara]

CAH has the right to tell her story, certainly, freedom of expression, absolutely, and we can't take that away from her. But having the right to do it doesn't mean that it's something she ought to do, or make it appropriate or fair (?) or any less of a disloyal act.

Just my €0.02! :shrug:

[carrie721]

CAH has the right to tell her story, certainly, freedom of expression, absolutely, and we can't take that away from her. But having the right to do it doesn't mean that it's something she ought to do, or make it appropriate or fair (?) or any less of a disloyal act.

Just my €0.02! :shrug:

well, maybe - but all those things are subjective. anyone here is entitled to think that she shouldn't have written the book but i can't figure out why someone who thinks that has bought it! :laugh:

[Tango]

CAH has the right to tell her story, certainly, freedom of expression, absolutely, and we can't take that away from her. But having the right to do it doesn't mean that it's something she ought to do, or make it appropriate or fair (?) or any less of a disloyal act.

Just my €0.02! :shrug:


I think you also make a fair point. Alls I can do is speculate, unless you want to take her at her word on the introduction, as I mentioned earlier, on page XV. Here's one guess. Maybe for her it's theraputic. Sure, to many fans Lindsey's songs, interviews, money made that visit their relationship were cloaked. But it wasn't to Carol Ann Harris, probably not to her family, her friends, those in the band, those associates that she's had. Maybe she felt humiliated. And as she said, she wants to set the record straight. Again, you can go back into the circular argument of "why now." If she intended to put this book out, should she have done it when Fleetwood Mac was at it's most famous state? The end of Tango, during Mirage? Should she wait until the children are grown? IF one can believe the book was part of her own therapy, a part of her own healing, it probably doens't matter when she puts it out. It's out. She doesn't have to be loyal to her abuser. That's part of the healing, I think.

[trackaghost]

she said several posts back that she was reading because she wanted to know whether or not stevie and lindsey are getting back together. y'know, stevie, who's always been too busy for a man, and lindsey, who's married with kids. that stevie and lindsey :laugh:



What's hilarious about that is she has just written this in another thread:



Why anyone would believe a spurned ex is beyond me; especially someone of such questionable moral character.

And yet she bought her book expecting to find out if Stevie and Lindsey were getting back together :laugh:

CAH has the right to tell her story, certainly, freedom of expression, absolutely, and we can't take that away from her. But having the right to do it doesn't mean that it's something she ought to do, or make it appropriate or fair (?) or any less of a disloyal act.

Just my €0.02! :shrug:

Was Mick disloyal for writing his book?

It's amusing to me the amount of people who have slammed her for writing this book yet rushed out to buy it. Also people have claimed her book is full of lies, but there's no doubt the reason it took so long to hit the shelves is that the Mac's lawyers were all over it. I realise people don't want to think badly of their heroes, but this woman was there. Her view of events is bias but I don't see how or why she wouldn't be telling the truth.

[Michelle Daya]

No one here is slamming Stevie, she did what she had to do.
carol7lynn basically claimed people who have unwanted pregnancies are immoral, Stevie had several, I just find it odd that she judges CAH giving up her child for adoption but not Stevie for her unwanted pregnancies.

bingo. i wasn't judging stevie. just saying it's a double standard. thanks for summing it up so easily.

[Michelle Daya]

What's hilarious about that is she has just written this in another thread:



And yet she bought her book expecting to find out if Stevie and Lindsey were getting back together :laugh:



Was Mick disloyal for writing his book?

It's amusing to me the amount of people who have slammed her for writing this book yet rushed out to buy it. Also people have claimed her book is full of lies, but there's no doubt the reason it took so long to hit the shelves is that the Mac's lawyers were all over it. I realise people don't want to think badly of their heroes, but this woman was there. Her view of events is bias but I don't see how or why she wouldn't be telling the truth.

& again, thank you. i find it also amusing after lurking for a year before posting that i came across horrible threads about lb's current wife. tell me, is daddy's ex's book going to hurt worse than reading those things about their mother? & some of the posters here who have slammed cah for this book were the very same posters slamming his wife & saying she's disgraceful, a pig, bitch, etc., for putting it out there. pot. kettle.

[Sahara]

Was Mick disloyal for writing his book?


I personally think so, yes. :shrug:
Again, he was there and has a right to write what he likes, but yes, still disloyal.

[trackaghost]

I personally think so, yes. :shrug:
Again, he was there and has a right to write what he likes, but yes, still disloyal.

If everyone felt like that there would be no more autobiographies :shrug:
And really, if you don't like it just don't read it. It's not really fair though to post that it's rubbish and full of lies, when you don't know it is.

& again, thank you. i find it also amusing after lurking for a year before posting that i came across horrible threads about lb's current wife. tell me, is daddy's ex's book going to hurt worse than reading those things about their mother? & some of the posters here who have slammed cah for this book were the very same posters slamming his wife & saying she's disgraceful, a pig, bitch, etc., for putting it out there. pot. kettle.

All this has reminded me about the Kristin bashing too. There always seems to be hostility towards Lindsey's partners other than Stevie.

[Sahara]

If everyone felt like that there would be no more autobiographies :shrug:

True enough, I suppose.

And really, if you don't like it just don't read it. It's not really fair though to post that it's rubbish and full of lies, when you don't know it is.

I absolutely agree, don't read it if you're not interested in what it says and willing to give some credibility to it. Although I haven't said that it's rubbish and lies, and furthermore I haven't read either of these books, this is just my view on the impression I've been getting. :nod:

[trackaghost]

I absolutely agree, don't read it if you're not interested in what it says and willing to give some credibility to it. Although I haven't said that it's rubbish and lies, and furthermore I haven't read either of these books, this is just my view on the impression I've been getting. :nod:

Oh I know you haven't, I just meant in general having read some of the comments here :)

I actually really enjoyed Mick's book, I'd recommend it.

[michelle2677]

As usual Kelly, you hit the nail on the head. Kudos.:]

There are always people who just don't "get it." Frankly, this thread has gone way far a field. The point is, Carol Ann Harris was never a member of the band and is a truly immoral person of questionable character for spitefully betraying the trust of the Mac-members et al at this late date. Her observations are, therefore, not worth the paper that they are printed on. If anyone wants to buy the book, fine, but I for one would not pay one red cent for this trash. Once again,the woman is a PIG.

CarolC

what difference does it make if she was a member of the band or not? it's her life. if they were that concerned about their "story" getting out, they should have put themselves in a plastic bubble and not let anyone in. The truth of the matter is, you can buy it or not buy it. Read it, or not read it. Why is it okay for members of FM to bash her, but not okay for her to retaliate? And as strand said, if she had written wonderful things about them, would you be as upset about it? I'm guessing not.

[michelle2677]

If everyone felt like that there would be no more autobiographies :shrug:
And really, if you don't like it just don't read it. It's not really fair though to post that it's rubbish and full of lies, when you don't know it is.




i'm really torn in mick writing the autobiography. I haven't read it, so i dont' know exactly what's in it, but I've heard enough about it. I think it was unethical to write it, even though I'll probably read about it :lol: but I dont think it was disloyal to the "band" or name that is fleetwood mac. Just to the people that he calls his friends. I would never write a book about the office I work at, and drag out all of my co-worker's dirty laundry. Especially since I'm still friends with them. idk, it's hard to wrap around it, since it's showbusiness and it's a completely different world. But if you bring it back down to reality, it is a bit unethical and disloyal.


granted, no one would want to read my book, so there's no point in discussing it :lol: ;)

[Sahara]

I think it was unethical to write it, even though I'll probably read about it :lol: but I dont think it was disloyal to the "band" or name that is fleetwood mac. Just to the people that he calls his friends. I would never write a book about the office I work at, and drag out all of my co-worker's dirty laundry. Especially since I'm still friends with them. idk, it's hard to wrap around it, since it's showbusiness and it's a completely different world. But if you bring it back down to reality, it is a bit unethical and disloyal.

I think you've summed it up perfectly :nod:

[catinthedark]

Now are you ever going to answer my question about exactly why you're reading this book, or indeed the questions Carrie asked you?

or mine! or mine! :laugh:

i still want to know how she can prove that what CAH is saying is wrong, anymore than she can prove it's right. she can't. she wasn't there. none of us was. we get mick's version, we get CAH's version. we get lindsey's and stevie's through interview snippets. and clearly, some people only want to believe the parts that are favourable about stevie. i think the truth is, none of them was or is perfect. even stevie.

[michelle2677]

i think the truth is, none of them was or is perfect. even stevie.


you're going straight to hell for that.







:laugh: :p

[michelle2677]

I respectfully disagree. CAH may have been there but she was not in the band. So what she has to say is just "second hand news!"



so...if she was there, as you said in your second sentence...how was it "second hand news"??? It would be just as much second hand news if it had come from lindsey himself.

Come really about Anne Heche?

Bwwwhhhhha.


Where is that three dollar bill?:rolleyes:


Her shacking up with a woman was certainly convenient for him, though. :thumbsup:

regardless if come was about anne, lindsey has gone on record to say Miranda was about her and i think it was more destructive than come. come was just a mud slinging, pissed off song that you kinda listen to and go "ouch. hahah..she just got served!! :lol: " Miranda reveals more of her inner demons and serious problems that probably should have just been kept to himself. but oh, right. He's lindsey. he's ~artistic~ he can do that.


believe me, I love Lindsey Buckingham more than just about anything, but this has all been a bit much. To say because she put her child up for adoption that she is unreliable? c'mon. Anyway, I'll probably read it just for the hell of it to see wtf the fuss is about

[danax6]

And yet she bought her book expecting to find out if Stevie and Lindsey were getting back together :laugh:Funniest thing I have read all week. And that includes CAH's book. :laugh:

Was Mick disloyal for writing his book?I'm torn on that one. It's one thing to write a book about your past and people you don't have any contact with anymore, but it's quite another to write a tell all book about people that you are still friends with and deal with on a day-to-day basis. Especially if said friends don't agree with what's in the book and you then years later even admit that there are some parts would require a rewrite. :shrug:

It's amusing to me the amount of people who have slammed her for writing this book yet rushed out to buy it. Also people have claimed her book is full of lies, but there's no doubt the reason it took so long to hit the shelves is that the Mac's lawyers were all over it. I realise people don't want to think badly of their heroes, but this woman was there. Her view of events is bias but I don't see how or why she wouldn't be telling the truth.In my defense, because I feel like I need to defend myself considering I am one of the people that thought it was tacky of her to release this book but also ordered it and read it, I feel strongly about stating an opinion without being completely informed. I could discuss FM and Stevie until doomsday, but I rather do it with all the knowledge I can gather on the subject. And well, I am not above admitting I am nosy also. ;) I don't claim her book is full of lies, but I also don't take it as gospel truth, because there are simply just too many inaccuracies in it. And I certainly don't take it for gospel truth because I don't want my 'heroes' tainted. I would be the last person to put any of those people involved with Fleetwood Mac on a pedestal. I believe CarolC cornered the market on that. :laugh: I had far worse images in my head than what I came across in CAH's book. Like I've said a few times before, nothing in that book surprised, most of it we already knew, so yes, it definitely passed through a few lawyers' hands. And I've changed my initial opinion towards the book.


granted, no one would want to read my book, so there's no point in discussing it :lol: ;)What? I've already came up with a title for our book! It'll be a bestseller. :wavey:

[danax6]

Edit: Ledge is screwed up... double post.

[trackaghost]

My comments weren't really directed towards you Vanessa, I've read with interest all you had to say about it and the inaccuracies in the book, I just find the hostility towards CAH a bit disturbing. She isn't the first to write a book like this and she certainly won't be the last, but hers is nowhere near the worst or most sleazy efforts out there.
Also, I don't know how I feel about Mick writing his autobiography either, but I brought it up because if it's tacky for CAH to write this book then, like you say, in a way it was even worse for Mick to write his, but people are more forgiving when it's a member of the band it seems.

[Miss Vicky]

First of all, I have not read this book nor do I have any intention of reading it.

However, I do have some opinions on the matter and have never been one to hold my tongue when I have something to say.

First of all, I feel that neither Lindsey nor Carol Ann are victims in this situation. While I have nothing but the utmost respect for Buckingham as a musician (and, as a fan, it's hard for me to accept that my idols can do wrong), it's difficult to believe that he was not abusive. Carol Ann Harris is not a lone voice in her accusations. On the other hand, I find it difficult to have any sympathy for someone who allows him or herself to be abused. I believe you are only truly a victim of domestic violence <i>the first time it happens</i>. After that, if you choose to stay with your abuser, you should share in the blame for what becomes of you. I know that people make the argument that victims of abuse essentially become psychological prisoners to their abusers, but abusive relationships rarely, if ever, begin that way. Things start out great, then slowly start to turn bad, then gradually get worse and continue in that downward spiral and anyone who is too weak to see the light and pull themselves out will get sucked in. But it's up to the individual to find the strength and get out before the current is too strong.

But enough of metaphors, I'm beginning to ramble. As much as I believe in the right of everyone to share their story, the case of Carol Ann Harris to me goes beyond that of a battered woman seeking to tell the world what happened, instead it smacks of someone trying to capitalize on an unfortunate situation. Let us not forget that this is not the first time that she has tried to air the dirty laundry. Many years ago, she also appeared on the television talk show Geraldo - an episode that focused on battered women. Again, don't get me wrong, the woman has every right to give her account of what happened, but it's obvious to me that she didn't go on television <i>just</i> to say that she had been battered. She went on television in hopes of making some sort of name for herself - even going as far as using the opportunity to <i>sing a song</i> before the nation-wide audience that the show provided. And if the rumors are true that she's been trying to publish this book for ten years now, that would put her original attempt right at about the release of <i>The Dance</i>, when any association with the band would be at its most profitable.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, that what she has done - especially now given what he's done with his life in the years since their relationship - is totally without class. On the other hand, if her accusations are indeed true, than he deserves any backlash that may (however doubtful it may be) come of it. My only sympathies are for Kristen and the children.

[danax6]

My comments weren't really directed towards you Vanessa, I've read with interest all you had to say about it and the inaccuracies in the book, I just find the hostility towards CAH a bit disturbing. She isn't the first to write a book like this and she certainly won't be the last, but hers is nowhere near the worst or most sleazy efforts out there.
Also, I don't know how I feel about Mick writing his autobiography either, but I brought it up because if it's tacky for CAH to write this book then, like you say, in a way it was even worse for Mick to write his, but people are more forgiving when it's a member of the band it seems.Oh, I think Mick's effort was far worse. Not only the book itself, which was already pretty bad considering a few peope have admitted to the inaccuracies, but mostly the idea behind it. There was one reason, and one reason only for Mick to write that book: money. With CAH you could still argue that she needed to tell her story, but with Mick? Please. And like I said, it's even worse when you do it off the back of your own friends, not even people you don't have any association with anymore.

[Betsy]

p. 32 "... Lindsey had a power and a purity that shone in its brigthness. And I knew that I would do everything within my power to protect him. Suddently words rang out in my mind with the clarity of a church bell: I'll never do anything that will come between Lindsey and his music...

...No matter what it might cost me personally."
I think that pretty much sums up the book. She put him first.

The book took a turn for me when Carol Ann gets sick in Paris. From that point on, I felt more sympathetic towards her.

To read about anyone's abuse, be it physical or psychological, is sad and disturbing. I don't want to quote those passages... but here is a passage that explained the pain that went on in this relationship...and I found it haunting.

p. 85 "This time I was joining my life with that of the man I loved and embarking on a future that held almost everything that a young woman could want: love excitement, travel, fame, money, and rock 'n' roll. That this future would also hold a darkness that would scar my life forever was beyond my comprehension."

There is the old 2-12 rule in life...you treat me nice, I tell 2 people, you treat me bad, I tell 12. She is definitely hurt and maybe she did find peace after writing the book. She turned it over to the publisher to be the judge, (i.e. if the story should be sold to the masses.)

My opinions about her and the subject matter changed many times as I read the book...the final one was just sadness... but happy that she and everyone else survived. (Many other rock 'n' roll artisits didn't.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Ledge is really slow and acting strangely...maybe a server problem?

[Betsy]

p. 32 "... Lindsey had a power and a purity that shone in its brigthness. And I knew that I would do everything within my power to protect him. Suddently words rang out in my mind with the clarity of a church bell: I'll never do anything that will come between Lindsey and his music...

...No matter what it might cost me personally."
I think that pretty much sums up the book. She put him first.

The book took a turn for me when Carol Ann gets sick in Paris. From that point on, I felt more sympathetic towards her.

To read about anyone's abuse, be it physical or psychological, is sad and disturbing. I don't want to quote those passages... but here is a passage that explained the pain that went on in this relationship...and I found it haunting.

p. 85 "This time I was joining my life with that of the man I loved and embarking on a future that held almost everything that a young woman could want: love excitement, travel, fame, money, and rock 'n' roll. That this future would also hold a darkness that would scar my life forever was beyond my comprehension."

There is the old 2-12 rule in life...you treat me nice, I tell 2 people, you treat me bad, I tell 12. She is definitely hurt and maybe she did find peace after writing the book. She turned it over to the publisher to be the judge, (i.e. if the story should be sold to the masses.)

My opinions about her and the subject matter changed many times as I read the book...the final one was just sadness... but happy that she and everyone else survived. (Many other rock 'n' roll artisits didn't.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Ledge is really slow and acting strangely...maybe a server problem?

[Michelle Daya]

First of all, I have not read this book nor do I have any intention of reading it.

However, I do have some opinions on the matter and have never been one to hold my tongue when I have something to say.

First of all, I feel that neither Lindsey nor Carol Ann are victims in this situation. While I have nothing but the utmost respect for Buckingham as a musician (and, as a fan, it's hard for me to accept that my idols can do wrong), it's difficult to believe that he was not abusive. Carol Ann Harris is not a lone voice in her accusations. On the other hand, I find it difficult to have any sympathy for someone who allows him or herself to be abused. I believe you are only truly a victim of domestic violence <i>the first time it happens</i>. After that, if you choose to stay with your abuser, you should share in the blame for what becomes of you. I know that people make the argument that victims of abuse essentially become psychological prisoners to their abusers, but abusive relationships rarely, if ever, begin that way. Things start out great, then slowly start to turn bad, then gradually get worse and continue in that downward spiral and anyone who is too weak to see the light and pull themselves out will get sucked in. But it's up to the individual to find the strength and get out before the current is too strong.

But enough of metaphors, I'm beginning to ramble. As much as I believe in the right of everyone to share their story, the case of Carol Ann Harris to me goes beyond that of a battered woman seeking to tell the world what happened, instead it smacks of someone trying to capitalize on an unfortunate situation. Let us not forget that this is not the first time that she has tried to air the dirty laundry. Many years ago, she also appeared on the television talk show Geraldo - an episode that focused on battered women. Again, don't get me wrong, the woman has every right to give her account of what happened, but it's obvious to me that she didn't go on television <i>just</i> to say that she had been battered. She went on television in hopes of making some sort of name for herself - even going as far as using the opportunity to <i>sing a song</i> before the nation-wide audience that the show provided. And if the rumors are true that she's been trying to publish this book for ten years now, that would put her original attempt right at about the release of <i>The Dance</i>, when any association with the band would be at its most profitable.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, that what she has done - especially now given what he's done with his life in the years since their relationship - is totally without class. On the other hand, if her accusations are indeed true, than he deserves any backlash that may (however doubtful it may be) come of it. My only sympathies are for Kristen and the children.

you made some good points & i admit that i'm puzzled by the timing of the book. if she were trying to capitalize on lb's success, well he's been successful (mostly with fm) for the last 30 years so anytime in there would have been good. but we don't know where she's been emotionally for the last 30 years (25 or so since they split.) maybe she was in therapy? maybe she couldn't deal with past issues until now? maybe this is a part of healing? hell maybe her therapist said "write a book, get it out & move on." i love lb too but don't doubt he was abusive. there have been stevie incidents & one account with another gf. that's three women. kind of hard to dismiss :shrug: it's hard to think at one time maybe he wasn't a very nice man but i'm just a fan & i appreciate his music. i've never lived with him or loved him & so i can't determine or even judge cah for telling her story. if it's true, she does have a right to say it. miranda was a great example of something that should never have gotten out there. it dealt with childhood sexual abuse & anne heche has gone on record to say she was abused as a child. someone could say he capitalized on her tragedy to make a buck. & come, he himself said was about her so to the poster who said she'd believe stevie, lb, etc., well there you go :shrug: except when it's not convenient right? then they're bold-faced liars?

i was appalled at the posters putting down cah for giving up her child. she did the most responsible & unselfish thing a woman can do. obviously, she's had trouble if she didn't feel she could raise the child. a big red flag right there that some issues may have been haunting her all this time. but to have the child & all that goes along with it & then give the child to someone who can better take care of it is admirable. it takes class. she didn't take the easy way out because i can only imagine how hard that would be.

so i believe what she says about the abuse. there may be some things she's gotten wrong or doesn't remember right because she (along with the band) was messed up on drugs at the time. maybe it took all this time to recollect everything that did go on, get it down on paper & make some sense of it :nod:

[Michelle Daya]

p. 32 "... Lindsey had a power and a purity that shone in its brigthness. And I knew that I would do everything within my power to protect him. Suddently words rang out in my mind with the clarity of a church bell: I'll never do anything that will come between Lindsey and his music...

...No matter what it might cost me personally."
I think that pretty much sums up the book. She put him first.

The book took a turn for me when Carol Ann gets sick in Paris. From that point on, I felt more sympathetic towards her.

To read about anyone's abuse, be it physical or psychological, is sad and disturbing. I don't want to quote those passages... but here is a passage that explained the pain that went on in this relationship...and I found it haunting.

p. 85 "This time I was joining my life with that of the man I loved and embarking on a future that held almost everything that a young woman could want: love excitement, travel, fame, money, and rock 'n' roll. That this future would also hold a darkness that would scar my life forever was beyond my comprehension."

There is the old 2-12 rule in life...you treat me nice, I tell 2 people, you treat me bad, I tell 12. She is definitely hurt and maybe she did find peace after writing the book. She turned it over to the publisher to be the judge, (i.e. if the story should be sold to the masses.)

My opinions about her and the subject matter changed many times as I read the book...the final one was just sadness... but happy that she and everyone else survived. (Many other rock 'n' roll artisits didn't.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Ledge is really slow and acting strangely...maybe a server problem?

& there's proof positive that she's been messed up since.

good post btw :)

[Miss Vicky]

you made some good points & i admit that i'm puzzled by the timing of the book. if she were trying to capitalize on lb's success, well he's been successful (mostly with fm) for the last 30 years so anytime in there would have been good.

I think perhaps you misunderstand me. I'm only confused by the timing of the book if the rumors of her trying to publish it for the last ten years are not true. Think about it, aside from Rumours (during which time Carol Ann was with Lindsey), the time immediately following The Dance - to me at least - seems the most profitable. Fleetwood Mac mania grew to something of a fervor (though probably very pale in comparison to what happened after Rumours). Items on Ebay were selling at astronomical prices and anybody who had any association (and even many who didn't) seemed to be cashing in, only her attempt was blocked by lawyers.

If that's not true and she's only just now trying to publish, I'm at a loss as to why she waited.

As for her giving up her child for adoption, I think it's pretty callous of people to call her "immoral." It seems to me to be a pretty noble thing for someone who considers herself to be unfit or unable to provide a good upbringing for her child to give that child up so that it can be raised by someone who can raise it properly.

[Michelle Daya]

I think perhaps you misunderstand me. I'm only confused by the timing of the book if the rumors of her trying to publish it for the last ten years are not true. Think about it, aside from Rumours (during which time Carol Ann was with Lindsey), the time immediately following The Dance - to me at least - seems the most profitable. Fleetwood Mac mania grew to something of a fervor (though probably very pale in comparison to what happened after Rumours). Items on Ebay were selling at astronomical prices and anybody who had any association (and even many who didn't) seemed to be cashing in, only her attempt was blocked by lawyers.

If that's not true and she's only just now trying to publish, I'm at a loss as to why she waited.

As for her giving up her child for adoption, I think it's pretty callous of people to call her "immoral." It seems to me to be a pretty noble thing for someone who considers herself to be unfit or unable to provide a good upbringing for her child to give that child up so that it can be raised by someone who can raise it properly.

yes i think i did misunderstand but either way, you made some really good points :cool: & obviously, i totally agree with your last paragraph. based on that alone, i'd say she doesn't lean toward selfishness.

[SpyNote]

I just finished Carol Ann's book, and I have to say that I enjoyed it. It was satisfying to get an insider's take on Fleetwood Mac "family" and exclusive, protective, and scary bubble they created for themselves. It was disturbing to read about the physical and emotion abuse Carol Ann endured over the seven years she and Linds were together. But I'm glad she told her story. It'd be nice to get Linds' side of the story, too, though I doubt he'll be writing his memoirs anytime soon... I guess we just have to keep analyzing his songs for those answers.

I enjoyed learning about personalities of each Mac family members most... John Courage, Curry Grant, Dennis Wilson, etc. And the conversations/confrontations she had with Stevie are priceless. It's cool that she's still good friends with Sara Fleetwood and Modern Records co-founder Danny Goldberg, both of whom lend strong creditability to her story. Everything I've read/heard about Sara Fleetwood has been glowing. She sounds like an incredible person.

[WelshWitchPMD]

I just finished reading this book yesterday. I really think at times that Carol Ann paints herself as the saving grace of Lindsey and the band. I was very upset about the part where she gave up her daughter. That is a choice that must be very difficult and I could sympathize with her there. I kind of spend the rest of the book hoping that she does eventually get to find her daughter.
OK as someone did point out I also found it strange that CA had already been to both Europe and Japan at such a young age with her boyfriend at the time. She also said that she was with the band in Japan on the Rumours tour (which we know because she is all over that video) but when she mentions she was in Japan for the Tusk tour she makes it sound like she was never there with the Mac before.
I found it kind of odd that she mentions that she left Tulsa with her best friend, hooks up with her cousin but no mention is ever made about the best friend again. What ever happened to her?
I also find it very odd that she claims that she was very self conscious yet she wanted to be a model. Something doesn’t add up here. Another oddity is after she hooks up with LB she decides that a career as recording engineer would be fruitless because as a female she would never be taken seriously. Funny how it never seemed to dawn on her before she got involved with a millionaire rock god?
She also is good at giving herself kudos at times. Like the fact that Rod Stewart was interested in her and that she caused a sensation on stage while standing in front of a fan. I am not saying that they never happened but CA certainly wanted the readers to know. She came across as gloating at times.
As for Lindsey I have no doubt that he can be a bastard at times. He has a dark side and I doubt that has changed. I can only hope that he holds his temper back when he is around his children. He comes across as very needy in relationships. IMHO. CA and him seemed attached at the hip back then which is odd because now he seems to like to be alone a lot.
I feel that CA totally downplayed his relationship with Stevie. CA seemed to think that she was LB’s one and only love. I can only wonder what kind of weed CA was smoking? I doubt that CA was that dumb. She seems dumb like a fox and I am sure that she left the SN/LB romance out on purpose. She never even did disclose that Mick did tell Lindsey about his affair with Stevie. CA seemed to conveniently forget some details.

I have to say that I did enjoy reading this book. It came at the right time too, after Lindsey’s tour was over.

[jbrownsjr]

I think you also make a fair point. Alls I can do is speculate, unless you want to take her at her word on the introduction, as I mentioned earlier, on page XV. Here's one guess. Maybe for her it's theraputic. Sure, to many fans Lindsey's songs, interviews, money made that visit their relationship were cloaked. But it wasn't to Carol Ann Harris, probably not to her family, her friends, those in the band, those associates that she's had. Maybe she felt humiliated. And as she said, she wants to set the record straight. Again, you can go back into the circular argument of "why now." If she intended to put this book out, should she have done it when Fleetwood Mac was at it's most famous state? The end of Tango, during Mirage? Should she wait until the children are grown? IF one can believe the book was part of her own therapy, a part of her own healing, it probably doens't matter when she puts it out. It's out. She doesn't have to be loyal to her abuser. That's part of the healing, I think.

I don't even think you have to make an arguement for "why now".. She has the "rights" to her own lifeand she should be able to tell the story any time she wants... Should she feel guilty about it? NO!!!! It's her life... if you don't want to read it... don't buy it...

[SpyNote]

My only disappointment is that the book ended abruptly with the breakup. It would have been nice to have a few pages devoted to closure on the whole Mac experience...things she learned about herself (e.g. her astonishing personal resilience and staunch loyalty to Linds), people she grew to love and still associates with today (e.g. where she stands w/ Stevie now since she talked so much about admiring her and wanting to be her friend), her reflections on each of the five Mac members (she had soooo many personal conversations with them). Granted, the story was mainly about her and Linds, but it would made for a more well-rounded story had she truly come full circle, maybe she's not there yet. After all, even with her pitfalls w/ Linds, she did experience the ride of a lifetime.

[catinthedark]

If that's not true and she's only just now trying to publish, I'm at a loss as to why she waited.




i do believe that she tried previously - and that stevie and lindsey's lawyers interfered. and so the book was revised and rewritten. which is also why i believe that she has now related the facts of what happened in a pretty accurate way. you can be pretty damned sure that if stevie and/or lindsey could prove otherwise, it wouldn't be published. it is clear that there is adequate bitterness between them all that if she was slandering them, they wouldn't hesitate to take her to court. i haven't heard a peep from either of them... :shrug:

[Kelly]

i do believe that she tried previously - and that stevie and lindsey's lawyers interfered. and so the book was revised and rewritten. which is also why i believe that she has now related the facts of what happened in a pretty accurate way. you can be pretty damned sure that if stevie and/or lindsey could prove otherwise, it wouldn't be published. it is clear that there is adequate bitterness between them all that if she was slandering them, they wouldn't hesitate to take her to court. i haven't heard a peep from either of them... :shrug:


Agreed and she was also most likely bound by some confidentiality agreement for a number of years. Cheri nor Lindsey cannot speak about their relationship/breakup etc because of the terms of their settlement. Most celebs have their hired help, associates, lovers, spouses..etc..sign non disclosure agreements. She did go on Geraldo and speak about the one incident, but not many of the FM entourage and peeps have gone public with alot of juicy, behind the scenes stories. I seriously doubt all those various people, roadies, assistants etc were just loyal. :laugh:

Personally I think CAH would have written her "book" years earlier if it was possible. On Geraldo she strictly talked about one incident and her lawyers probably felt it was not a violation of her Non Disc. agreement. Or she just decided to say screw it and take the chance LB wouldn't sue her. :lol:

[mgikallaroundme]

Personally I think CAH would have written her "book" years earlier if it was possible. On Geraldo she strictly talked about one incident and her lawyers probably felt it was not a violation of her Non Disc. agreement. Or she just decided to say screw it and take the chance LB wouldn't sue her. :lol:


I think she is worry free about anyone suing her least of all him. Carol Ann Harris has a right to tell her story. Fans calling it an autobiography is a bit much. Believing her tale gives any insight into Mr. Buckingham or other members of Fleetwood Mac...priceless! Would the same people who believe her story also read and believe the autobiography of the Blues Brothers? Spinal Tap? The Archies? ;)

If Bart Simpson wrote his autobiography and said James L. Brooks was a druggie who abused him would everyone believe that? Charles Barkley said he was misquoted in his own autobiography. That gave everyone a good laugh. Carol Ann Harris clearly plagiarized her "autobiography." Nobody notices, few mind, even less wonder wtf? :shrug:

Mick says: (My Life & Adventures in Fleetwood Mac, 1990, page 229)
"Then, while she was hunched over, upstage of Lindsey, during her "Rhiannon" performance,
he stopped playing and pulled his jacket over his head in a grotesque imitation of her pose.

Storms: My Life with Lindsey Buckingham and Fleetwood Mac, 2007, page 285
"He followed her around in grotesque imitation, intentionally playing the wrong parts on his solo guitar song after song.

I absolutely believe Mick and Carol Ann both use that phrase on a regular basis. I know I do. :lol:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

[BTFLCHLD]

There are two, three, four sides to every story. I just went about reading this book keeping in mind that this is her perception of her experience. All I know is I would give mint to have Lindsey wrap my blond hair in his fist. :lol:

[carol7lynn]

Immoral people are essentially dishonest and play by rules not sanctioned by society and without regards for how their behavior(s) may negatively impact others. In that respect, CAH is immoral. Immoral people seldom tell the truth, let alone live it. They are masters at making a lie seem real. The vast majority of them habitually try to escape accountability, by playing the hapless, and yes, perennial victim of others (in particular) or circumstances (in general.)

Secondly, her personal, accountings/observations about the members of FWM, are thereby, flawed and just like her character, unreliable and untrustworthy. What other members of the band said about her or each other, is not a sound argument to justify the support of her spiteful, and often inaccurate, literary betrayal of the confidences of others. Nor does the argument that a book publisher would not have supported her efforts by publishing her work, if what she said, was not sanctionable. Case in point, one such publishing house paid O.J. Simpson big bucks to co-write a book entitled "What If I Did It?" Indeed!:eek:

Lastly, CAH was never a member of the band and her motivations for telling tales now, after fences have been mended within the band only reflects her unrelenting bitterness over not being "An Insider."

If your life is a mess, then it is because of the unwise choices that you have made. If you continue to have negative things happen to you without changing what you are doing, then you have only yourself to blame. CAH seldom blames herself, but always blames others/circumstances for the negative things that happen to her.

By and large, things just don't happen to us but we make them happen. Just mull-over these five points for example. She could have chosen to act responsibly but she repeatedly chose not to. Our behaviors reveal our true character and, quite frankly, I find her behaviors deplorable and, as such, reflective of a person of immoral character.

I am not being sanctimonious, as one poster inaccurately pointed out, instead I am questioning her motives for (mis)leading the public into believing what she has to say is actually a true and accurate accounting of the "Storms" within the band or even between her and Lindsey. To do that I have examined what she has done and is doing with her own life. People who point fingers at others, while making themselves look beyond reproach, are liars and fakes.

CAH is an asocial, if not anti-social, user who is still, trying to distract from the fact, that she was her own worst enemy in the "Storms" that brewed around the Mac family; not Stevie and not Lindsey. We teach people how to treat us, one famous TV psychologist preaches daily to his audience, and he is right. If people are mistreating you then you either put your foot down and stop it or you leave. And, what CAD does is, she immorally sacrifices her first born child and eventually her own personal safety, to attain the rock star lifestyle that she couldn't obviously earn on her own merits/talents but calculatingly and vicariously tries to gain through her associations with stars.

How telling that, twenty years later she is dishing it for the dollar rather than earning her keep through her musical talents and abilities; whether as a sound engineer or an artist. As I stated in an earlier post, it is also quite telling that she makes sure everyone knows, on her dedication page, that her current husband is a musician. Who cares? She does because even today, she can still only identify herself, in the entertainment business, by her latest man.

Point 1: She was deceitful and unfaithful when she willingly cheated, on her live-in boyfriend and father of her unwanted child, with LB.

Point 2: Rather than take responsibility for her own body and the welfare of any children that she might have, she fails to either marry her sexual partner or practice adequate birth control and proceeds to get pregnant out of wedlock. She was, therefore, acting irresponsibly, without principles and without discipline.
In short, she knowingly and willingly engaged in asocial behaviors, without any consideration for the welfare of any children that she might bring into this world when she had sex with a man with whom she had no legal ties. She was not a naive 15 year old living in her family's home back in Oklahoma. She was a grown woman living and working in Hollywood.

Point 3: Instead of acting responsibly and getting a better paying job and/or taking advantage of the social welfare programs available in the liberal state of California to help her keep her child, she shifts her responsibilities onto someone else. She dumps the child to continue her pursuit of a star which for her is her true career.

Point 4: She leaves one boyfriend's bed to move in with another (LB) and continues the self-destructive pattern of living without legally marrying her (sexual) partner and, once again, becomes pregnant out-of-wedlock.

That fact is laws are, codified morals, enacted by society for a reason and that is to deter us from engaging in behaviors that are injurious/unjust to ourselves and others. Bringing children into a situation where there is no established legal union/arrangement in place to support our child or ourselves, is again irresponsible and unfair to any children, such an illicit union, might produce.

Point 5: Bootlegging concert albums is illegal and a felony. Like most criminals, she makes no apologies for what she has done. Wonder what she would think if someone bootlegged her book and cut her out of her share of the profits?

I remain firm in my observation that her book sheds no light on the "Storms" within the MAC as she touts. It's a vain attempt to recapture the fame and fortune she set out to garner when she set out for Hollywood thirty some odd years ago. Her story is no different than Anna Nicole Smith's and you saw how that one ended.

CarolC

[DavidMn]

I guess I just cont care about all this stuff. The abuse stuff I already had read about and is completely unnacceptable. But in the end, Lindsey's not a terrorist and he hasnt killed anyone, so I really dont consider any of what CAH ahs to say my business at all.

[mikeschmike]

All I know is I would give mint to have Lindsey wrap my blond hair in his fist. :lol:

Well...there goes my lunch.

As if I needed another reason to not even read the stuff in this forum. Jesus christ.

[BTFLCHLD]

:nod: another reason to not even read the stuff in this forum :nod:

[TulsaMINI]

I want to read this book (guilty pleasure), but I don't really want to reward CAH for writing it by buying it.:rolleyes:

Does anyone want to loan it to me? I'll pay the postage both ways. :nod:

[DavidMn]

Well...there goes my lunch.

As if I needed another reason to not even read the stuff in this forum. Jesus christ.Mike cmon. she wasnt serious....:laugh:

[mikeschmike]

Mike cmon. she wasnt serious....:laugh:

given what i've read in here since the under the skin tour began, i disagree.

[DavidMn]

given what i've read in here since the under the skin tour began, i disagree.Mike Mike, I know her personally. Thats just the way she is. BELIEVE ME, she wouldnt tolerate anyone doing that to her. SHe's a real sweetheart. Maybe you just read too much into what she said?:shrug:

[mikeschmike]

Mike Mike, I know her personally. Thats just the way she is. BELIEVE ME, she wouldnt tolerate anyone doing that to her. SHe's a real sweetheart. Maybe you just read too much into what she said?:shrug:

How many different meanings can "I want him to have a fistful of my hair" have? It's nice that you're sticking up for her, but after the lindsey lindsey lindsey thread, etc...I'll stick to my opinion.

[DavidMn]

How many different meanings can "I want him to have a fistful of my hair" have? It's nice that you're sticking up for her, but after the lindsey lindsey lindsey thread, etc...I'll stick to my opinion.Fair enough. I'll leave it at that.

[BTFLCHLD]

hehe :p

NIKI :]

[gretchen]

given what i've read in here since the under the skin tour began, i disagree.

hey, that was kind of a lo ball snark to Niki.:mad:

[BTFLCHLD]

hey, that was kind of a lo ball snark to Niki.:mad: gretch...david...really I couldn't care less.

remember...I do what I want to. :nod:

:xoxo:

[Michelle Daya]

Immoral people are essentially dishonest and play by rules not sanctioned by society and without regards for how their behavior(s) may negatively impact others. In that respect, CAH is immoral. Immoral people seldom tell the truth, let alone live it. They are masters at making a lie seem real. The vast majority of them habitually try to escape accountability, by playing the hapless, and yes, perennial victim of others (in particular) or circumstances (in general.)

Secondly, her personal, accountings/observations about the members of FWM, are thereby, flawed and just like her character, unreliable and untrustworthy. What other members of the band said about her or each other, is not a sound argument to justify the support of her spiteful, and often inaccurate, literary betrayal of the confidences of others. Nor does the argument that a book publisher would not have supported her efforts by publishing her work, if what she said, was not sanctionable. Case in point, one such publishing house paid O.J. Simpson big bucks to co-write a book entitled "What If I Did It?" Indeed!:eek:

Lastly, CAH was never a member of the band and her motivations for telling tales now, after fences have been mended within the band only reflects her unrelenting bitterness over not being "An Insider."

If your life is a mess, then it is because of the unwise choices that you have made. If you continue to have negative things happen to you without changing what you are doing, then you have only yourself to blame. CAH seldom blames herself, but always blames others/circumstances for the negative things that happen to her.

By and large, things just don't happen to us but we make them happen. Just mull-over these five points for example. She could have chosen to act responsibly but she repeatedly chose not to. Our behaviors reveal our true character and, quite frankly, I find her behaviors deplorable and, as such, reflective of a person of immoral character.

I am not being sanctimonious, as one poster inaccurately pointed out, instead I am questioning her motives for (mis)leading the public into believing what she has to say is actually a true and accurate accounting of the "Storms" within the band or even between her and Lindsey. To do that I have examined what she has done and is doing with her own life. People who point fingers at others, while making themselves look beyond reproach, are liars and fakes.

CAH is an asocial, if not anti-social, user who is still, trying to distract from the fact, that she was her own worst enemy in the "Storms" that brewed around the Mac family; not Stevie and not Lindsey. We teach people how to treat us, one famous TV psychologist preaches daily to his audience, and he is right. If people are mistreating you then you either put your foot down and stop it or you leave. And, what CAD does is, she immorally sacrifices her first born child and eventually her own personal safety, to attain the rock star lifestyle that she couldn't obviously earn on her own merits/talents but calculatingly and vicariously tries to gain through her associations with stars.

How telling that, twenty years later she is dishing it for the dollar rather than earning her keep through her musical talents and abilities; whether as a sound engineer or an artist. As I stated in an earlier post, it is also quite telling that she makes sure everyone knows, on her dedication page, that her current husband is a musician. Who cares? She does because even today, she can still only identify herself, in the entertainment business, by her latest man.

Point 1: She was deceitful and unfaithful when she willingly cheated, on her live-in boyfriend and father of her unwanted child, with LB.

Point 2: Rather than take responsibility for her own body and the welfare of any children that she might have, she fails to either marry her sexual partner or practice adequate birth control and proceeds to get pregnant out of wedlock. She was, therefore, acting irresponsibly, without principles and without discipline.
In short, she knowingly and willingly engaged in asocial behaviors, without any consideration for the welfare of any children that she might bring into this world when she had sex with a man with whom she had no legal ties. She was not a naive 15 year old living in her family's home back in Oklahoma. She was a grown woman living and working in Hollywood.

Point 3: Instead of acting responsibly and getting a better paying job and/or taking advantage of the social welfare programs available in the liberal state of California to help her keep her child, she shifts her responsibilities onto someone else. She dumps the child to continue her pursuit of a star which for her is her true career.

Point 4: She leaves one boyfriend's bed to move in with another (LB) and continues the self-destructive pattern of living without legally marrying her (sexual) partner and, once again, becomes pregnant out-of-wedlock.

That fact is laws are, codified morals, enacted by society for a reason and that is to deter us from engaging in behaviors that are injurious/unjust to ourselves and others. Bringing children into a situation where there is no established legal union/arrangement in place to support our child or ourselves, is again irresponsible and unfair to any children, such an illicit union, might produce.

Point 5: Bootlegging concert albums is illegal and a felony. Like most criminals, she makes no apologies for what she has done. Wonder what she would think if someone bootlegged her book and cut her out of her share of the profits?

I remain firm in my observation that her book sheds no light on the "Storms" within the MAC as she touts. It's a vain attempt to recapture the fame and fortune she set out to garner when she set out for Hollywood thirty some odd years ago. Her story is no different than Anna Nicole Smith's and you saw how that one ended.

CarolC

it must feel good to be so morally superior. tell me, are you a fan of stevie nicks? yes, i bring her up again because these double standards have nothing to do with morality. they have to do with personal self-infused superiority & complete intolerance. walk a mile in someone else's shoes, but i think first you'll have to crawl down off that horse you're sitting so magnificently on.

an aside: you did not compare cah's book with oj simpsons...

[TrueFaith77]

Immoral people are essentially dishonest and play by rules not sanctioned by society and without regards for how their behavior(s) may negatively impact others. In that respect, CAH is immoral. Immoral people seldom tell the truth, let alone live it. They are masters at making a lie seem real. The vast majority of them habitually try to escape accountability, by playing the hapless, and yes, perennial victim of others (in particular) or circumstances (in general.)

Secondly, her personal, accountings/observations about the members of FWM, are thereby, flawed and just like her character, unreliable and untrustworthy. What other members of the band said about her or each other, is not a sound argument to justify the support of her spiteful, and often inaccurate, literary betrayal of the confidences of others. Nor does the argument that a book publisher would not have supported her efforts by publishing her work, if what she said, was not sanctionable. Case in point, one such publishing house paid O.J. Simpson big bucks to co-write a book entitled "What If I Did It?" Indeed!:eek:

Lastly, CAH was never a member of the band and her motivations for telling tales now, after fences have been mended within the band only reflects her unrelenting bitterness over not being "An Insider."

If your life is a mess, then it is because of the unwise choices that you have made. If you continue to have negative things happen to you without changing what you are doing, then you have only yourself to blame. CAH seldom blames herself, but always blames others/circumstances for the negative things that happen to her.

By and large, things just don't happen to us but we make them happen. Just mull-over these five points for example. She could have chosen to act responsibly but she repeatedly chose not to. Our behaviors reveal our true character and, quite frankly, I find her behaviors deplorable and, as such, reflective of a person of immoral character.

I am not being sanctimonious, as one poster inaccurately pointed out, instead I am questioning her motives for (mis)leading the public into believing what she has to say is actually a true and accurate accounting of the "Storms" within the band or even between her and Lindsey. To do that I have examined what she has done and is doing with her own life. People who point fingers at others, while making themselves look beyond reproach, are liars and fakes.

CAH is an asocial, if not anti-social, user who is still, trying to distract from the fact, that she was her own worst enemy in the "Storms" that brewed around the Mac family; not Stevie and not Lindsey. We teach people how to treat us, one famous TV psychologist preaches daily to his audience, and he is right. If people are mistreating you then you either put your foot down and stop it or you leave. And, what CAD does is, she immorally sacrifices her first born child and eventually her own personal safety, to attain the rock star lifestyle that she couldn't obviously earn on her own merits/talents but calculatingly and vicariously tries to gain through her associations with stars.

How telling that, twenty years later she is dishing it for the dollar rather than earning her keep through her musical talents and abilities; whether as a sound engineer or an artist. As I stated in an earlier post, it is also quite telling that she makes sure everyone knows, on her dedication page, that her current husband is a musician. Who cares? She does because even today, she can still only identify herself, in the entertainment business, by her latest man.

Point 1: She was deceitful and unfaithful when she willingly cheated, on her live-in boyfriend and father of her unwanted child, with LB.

Point 2: Rather than take responsibility for her own body and the welfare of any children that she might have, she fails to either marry her sexual partner or practice adequate birth control and proceeds to get pregnant out of wedlock. She was, therefore, acting irresponsibly, without principles and without discipline.
In short, she knowingly and willingly engaged in asocial behaviors, without any consideration for the welfare of any children that she might bring into this world when she had sex with a man with whom she had no legal ties. She was not a naive 15 year old living in her family's home back in Oklahoma. She was a grown woman living and working in Hollywood.

Point 3: Instead of acting responsibly and getting a better paying job and/or taking advantage of the social welfare programs available in the liberal state of California to help her keep her child, she shifts her responsibilities onto someone else. She dumps the child to continue her pursuit of a star which for her is her true career.

Point 4: She leaves one boyfriend's bed to move in with another (LB) and continues the self-destructive pattern of living without legally marrying her (sexual) partner and, once again, becomes pregnant out-of-wedlock.

That fact is laws are, codified morals, enacted by society for a reason and that is to deter us from engaging in behaviors that are injurious/unjust to ourselves and others. Bringing children into a situation where there is no established legal union/arrangement in place to support our child or ourselves, is again irresponsible and unfair to any children, such an illicit union, might produce.

Point 5: Bootlegging concert albums is illegal and a felony. Like most criminals, she makes no apologies for what she has done. Wonder what she would think if someone bootlegged her book and cut her out of her share of the profits?

I remain firm in my observation that her book sheds no light on the "Storms" within the MAC as she touts. It's a vain attempt to recapture the fame and fortune she set out to garner when she set out for Hollywood thirty some odd years ago. Her story is no different than Anna Nicole Smith's and you saw how that one ended.

CarolC

VERY impressive breakdown of CAH. . . Though one that might have been only possible thanks to the book(?).

[BTFLCHLD]

after the lindsey lindsey lindsey thread, etc...I'll stick to my opinion
given what i've read in here since the under the skin tour began, i disagree.

Mike, your obssession holds no bounds!! Not sure why you feel compelled to review my every post. :confused:
You have made it obvious that you do not know me well.

I shall offer you this...I have no desire to be hit, beaten or dragged along a driveway. I do have a desire for Lindsey to take my blond hair and wrap within his hand...he may even make a fist of it in the process as it is pretty long to gather up! :shocked:

ok...I've done my caring for the year.

[Michelle Daya]

Mike, your obssession holds no bounds!! Not sure why you feel compelled to review my every post. :confused:
You have made it obvious that you do not know me well.

I shall offer you this...I have no desire to be hit, beaten or dragged along a driveway. I do have a desire for Lindsey to take my blond hair and wrap within his hand...he may even make a fist of it in the process as it is pretty long to gather up! :shocked:

ok...I've done my caring for the year.

i really do love you :xoxo:

[mikeschmike]

Mike, your obssession holds no bounds!! Not sure why you feel compelled to review my every post. :confused:
You have made it obvious that you do not know me well.

I shall offer you this...I have no desire to be hit, beaten or dragged along a driveway. I do have a desire for Lindsey to take my blond hair and wrap within his hand...he may even make a fist of it in the process as it is pretty long to gather up! :shocked:

ok...I've done my caring for the year.

obsessed? no.
disgusted? yes.

It's not an obsession when I want to read about Lindsey related stuff, and I have to sift through post after post of just pure garbage. It's an annoyance, and if it's an annoyance that I have to put up with constantly...I'm going to speak up. Are you the only one posting this stuff? Absolutely not. As a matter of fact it's getting to be some sort of pissing contest to see who's obsessed with LB the most. David jumped in to defend you, and I explained my opinion to him. that's what happened, minus a few double postings thanks to the glitchy state of the ledge.

Thanks for caring, if only for today. :wavey:

[Sarah]

Mike, your obssession holds no bounds!! Not sure why you feel compelled to review my every post. :confused:

i have no idea why people here do this. it seems when someone doesn't like someone else, they follow them and respond to them thread by thread. i don't know what the case is with you and mike, and i haven't noticed it, but i do know of that behavior to be true with various people at various points on this board (and it has been for a while).

if i don't like someone, i act like they don't exist and don't bother reading what they have to say.. cuz um, i don't like them anyway. :shrug:

[BTFLCHLD]

I have to sift through post after post of just pure garbage. It's an annoyance, and if it's an annoyance that I have to put up with constantly...I'm going to speak up.
Thanks for caring, if only for today. :wavey:

Well, if said posts disgust and annoy you on a continual/consistant basis, Mike, you should probably place those that create those posts on ignore. Unless you want to feel that way when you are reading. :shrug:

[#1LiddyBuckFan]

Just my two cents:

I have never put Lindsey on a "he's perfect" pedestal in regard to his personal life because he's human.

Do I think he's attractive? Hell yes and I don't mind shouting it!
Do I think he's one of the best guitar players ever? Hell yes!

But that's just surface stuff...

I won't deny that there's some truth in Carol Ann's book. She was with him for quite a while...they obviously had something. I figure she has a right to tell her story...of course she's going to make a buck or two doing it. It's the way of the world. I figure if you're bothered about that, don't buy it. Lindsey doesn't seem to care too much...or so we've seen yet. :laugh:

I think the wonderful thing about all of this is that it seems like he's come out the other end of all of the craziness. And isn't that the important part? He's grown and moved forward. He's trying to live in the now. He's settled down more, he's got a beautiful family now and is very proud of it, he's making fantastic music again and quite frankly, he just seems happy. How lucky of a guy is he? I believe he would not pause in telling anyone how lucky he is. (And to top it off, I think he's got some really kickass fans :laugh: )

Rock on Lindsey!

[Dark Angel]

If your life is a mess, then it is because of the unwise choices that you have made. If you continue to have negative things happen to you without changing what you are doing, then you have only yourself to blame. CAH seldom blames herself, but always blames others/circumstances for the negative things that happen to her.

Not true. The actions or decisions of another person can make your life a mess as well. Let's take child abuse for example. Is it the child's 'unwise choice' that causes the abuse..NO. It's that of the abuser. Unfortunately, in some cases the person abused tends to blame their-self for what happened.
Sometimes, years later they realize it wasn't their choice for it to happen, and that they are not to blame.

By and large, things just don't happen to us but we make them happen. Just mull-over these five points for example. She could have chosen to act responsibly but she repeatedly chose not to. Our behaviors reveal our true character and, quite frankly, I find her behaviors deplorable and, as such, reflective of a person of immoral character.

So we choose what happens to us? We make them happen? Sometimes, perhaps. But throughout our entire lives, childhood through adulthood, much happens that we do not make happen. Abuse, rape, any problems (mental or physical) related to either of those situations are not normally something we choose to happen.

I am not being sanctimonious

Bullsh*t!

We teach people how to treat us, one famous TV psychologist preaches daily to his audience, and he is right. If people are mistreating you then you either put your foot down and stop it or you leave.

How can you leave a relationship you're too young to get out of? A bit f*cking difficult when you're not even old enough to know what's going on, isn't it? TV psych's are usually the ones who know the least yet make the most money. Big surprise there....:rolleyes:

And, what CAD does is, she immorally sacrifices her first born child and eventually her own personal safety, to attain the rock star lifestyle that she couldn't obviously earn on her own merits/talents but calculatingly and vicariously tries to gain through her associations with stars.

She didn't 'sacrifice' her child. She put it up for adoption so it would have a better life than what she thought she could give it. What would you rather a person do, abort it or worse?? As for her safety, I haven't read the book, but I've seen through my own eyes what some people will do when they love, or believe they love someone with all their being. It's sad and absolutely horrible to watch and be a part of! You say she did it for the 'rock star lifestyle'. Do you have a clue as to how many women will put up with abuse for years because they have themselves convinced that their man really *does* love them...that they love their man...that they hang on to a hope that someday he'll change...that all forms of abuse will end??

Point 2: Rather than take responsibility for her own body and the welfare of any children that she might have, she fails to either marry her sexual partner or practice adequate birth control and proceeds to get pregnant out of wedlock. She was, therefore, acting irresponsibly, without principles and without discipline.

Another bullsh*t comment. Not surpising though. Condoms break. The pill has never been 100% effective. Both of these are proven facts. At her young age I seriously doubt she would have been able to handle a child. I know I sure as hell couldn't have. Why not give it to someone that *can* take care of and provide for it. It's a much better option than abortion, imo.

In short, she knowingly and willingly engaged in asocial behaviors, without any consideration for the welfare of any children that she might bring into this world when she had sex with a man with whom she had no legal ties. She was not a naive 15 year old living in her family's home back in Oklahoma. She was a grown woman living and working in Hollywood.

Point 3: Instead of acting responsibly and getting a better paying job and/or taking advantage of the social welfare programs available in the liberal state of California to help her keep her child, she shifts her responsibilities onto someone else. She dumps the child to continue her pursuit of a star which for her is her true career.


That fact is laws are, codified morals, enacted by society for a reason and that is to deter us from engaging in behaviors that are injurious/unjust to ourselves and others. Bringing children into a situation where there is no established legal union/arrangement in place to support our child or ourselves, is again irresponsible and unfair to any children, such an illicit union, might produce.



CarolC

Why not climb down your from high-horse, your ivory tower, or whatever the hell it is you're living in and join the real world. Bad sh*t happens everyday to people whether or not they choose it to. No psych's BS, TV or real life, will ever change that fact. There will always be demons of one sort or another to fight. And, unfortunately, there will always be someone trying to be a self-righteous, holier-than-thou twit, who's best claim to fame is that they are so flexible they can bend over and kiss their own a$$.

[sasja]

CarolC, it is my opinion that as long as there are people like yourself in this world, people who lack the "empathy gland" and are intolerant and unforgiving and uncaring, people who cannot imagine what it might be like to walk in the shoes of others, and what is more, do not even wish to begin to try and understand what that might be like......... As long as people like you exist, I will just have to work twice as hard to raise my sons to be the opposite of you to make up for and negate your presence here on earth.

Your cold and seemingly so "superior" attitude seriously scares me. I also wonder if you are for real in your attitude or if it's some defense you have thrown up to protect yourself from some issues you have not processed, but not knowing you personally that remains just a wonder, not an opinion.

I just hope for your sake that life will not deal you some cruel blows someday soon that you have no cut and dry "rational" response to.
Karma, don't you know.

[Betsy]

Reading the chapter about Lindsey's grand mal seizure and the spinal tap repercussions made me less flip about my attitude toward CAH. She was with him and stayed with him , especially when the rest of the band went to Hamiliton Jordan's reception at the White House. I think even Lindsey would say she was a true friend and supported him.

She mentions other medical close calls (seizures?) but doesn't go into detail. I guess no matter what the circumstances, in the end I would be grateful to her, had I been in his situation. Something like that stays with a person.

I have listened to the complete GO INSANE and TANGO IN THE NIGHTcd's. I now listen to the songs with an insight I did not have before reading the book.

If Carol Ann lives to be 70, then she will have spent 1/10 of her life with Mr. Buckingham. I am sure that there are good memories mixed in with the not-so-good and I hope that both sides can bring the good ones to the surface and forget the bad.

I find it truly amazing that these people survived and didn't kill themselves by overdosing. It was like, they all thought they were invincible.

[jbrownsjr]

Mike, your obssession holds no bounds!! Not sure why you feel compelled to review my every post. :confused:
You have made it obvious that you do not know me well.

I shall offer you this...I have no desire to be hit, beaten or dragged along a driveway. I do have a desire for Lindsey to take my blond hair and wrap within his hand...he may even make a fist of it in the process as it is pretty long to gather up! :shocked:

ok...I've done my caring for the year....................

gross..

[BTFLCHLD]

prepare to be grossed out :laugh:
<object width="250" height="250"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rUI5J0-MGSk"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rUI5J0-MGSk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="250" height="250"></embed></object>

[Michelle Daya]

after googling cah, i found this interesting little tidbit on john mcvie :laugh: thought you might enjoy.

http://forum.songfacts.com/showtopic.php?tid/142827/

[CelticGypsy]

Just my two cents:

I have never put Lindsey on a "he's perfect" pedestal in regard to his personal life because he's human.

Do I think he's attractive? Hell yes and I don't mind shouting it!
Do I think he's one of the best guitar players ever? Hell yes!

But that's just surface stuff...

I won't deny that there's some truth in Carol Ann's book. She was with him for quite a while...they obviously had something. I figure she has a right to tell her story...of course she's going to make a buck or two doing it. It's the way of the world. I figure if you're bothered about that, don't buy it. Lindsey doesn't seem to care too much...or so we've seen yet. :laugh:

I think the wonderful thing about all of this is that it seems like he's come out the other end of all of the craziness. And isn't that the important part? He's grown and moved forward. He's trying to live in the now. He's settled down more, he's got a beautiful family now and is very proud of it, he's making fantastic music again and quite frankly, he just seems happy. How lucky of a guy is he? I believe he would not pause in telling anyone how lucky he is. (And to top it off, I think he's got some really kickass fans :laugh: )

Rock on Lindsey!



I agree with everything you've said:)

[The Catdancer]

after googling cah, i found this interesting little tidbit on john mcvie :laugh: thought you might enjoy.

http://forum.songfacts.com/showtopic.php?tid/142827/

Now that was funny :lol:

[Chrislit18]

Now that was funny :lol:

oh yeah it was :lol:

[BTFLCHLD]

<img src="http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a152/BTFLCHLD/grouphugg.gif">

[Kelly]

CarolC, it is my opinion that as long as there are people like yourself in this world, people who lack the "empathy gland" and are intolerant and unforgiving and uncaring, people who cannot imagine what it might be like to walk in the shoes of others, and what is more, do not even wish to begin to try and understand what that might be like......... As long as people like you exist, I will just have to work twice as hard to raise my sons to be the opposite of you to make up for and negate your presence here on earth.

Your cold and seemingly so "superior" attitude seriously scares me. I also wonder if you are for real in your attitude or if it's some defense you have thrown up to protect yourself from some issues you have not processed, but not knowing you personally that remains just a wonder, not an opinion.

I just hope for your sake that life will not deal you some cruel blows someday soon that you have no cut and dry "rational" response to.
Karma, don't you know.


:xoxo:

Excellent post and I completely agree. It scares me to think that there are actually people with these kind of beliefs raising children. :distress:

[Newzchspy]

I am amazed at the response, or shall I say reaction to Carol Ann's book. Most of us are reasonable , intelligent people who evaluate a situation or issue before we comment. Here, I have noticed that some of us have condemned the book or author before even buying or reading the book. Regardless of what you may think of the book, i.e. write your own review, you ought to read it, evaluate it , digest it and then critique it. Give it a chance before condeming it as "trash" or lies and inaccurate as some have written.

I am as big a Lindsey fan as any of you, but it must give some of us pause when we read that he (allegedly) beat the hell out of her several times, once to the point of dragging her down the driveway, another where she passed out and once again, where she actually went to the hospital. Granted this was 25 years ago or more and memories are weak and thin. Still, I admire Lindsey greatly as an artist but have no doubt he has his demons. At least give Carol Ann her chance to clear the air. There are always two (2) sides to every story and this is clearly hers. It must have passed some legal muster because the book was printed and I haven't seen any lawsuits flying. There must be "some" truth to her allegations. Right or wrong, or shall I say "write or wrong, there must be some basis for what she has written. Personally, I'd love to hear Lindsey's respnse to this book.


Glenn

[DeeGeMe]

There's an old saying that there are three sides to every story, yours, mine, and the truth. Some of what she says certainly "jives" with known FM and LB history, some of it doesn't. Another old saying is that everyone rewrites their past to reinforce their present view of themselves. I think that's also very true. We all know how "truthful" Mick's account was of FM and himself, I'm pretty sure if any of the other FM'ers wrote a book that it would also have some things that may or may not jive with what others have said. But it's a free world, she's free to write whatever she wants to.

[wolfontherun]

"The woman is a self-righteous, amoral PIG.:eek:"

That is painful to read. Your anger is sad.

[Newzchspy]

Dee Gee, I AGREE with what you say. My concern is that there are many who posted that the book was "trash" before they even read it.

Yes, history can be rewritten with the swipe of a pen, but before anyone criticizes what Carol Ann says about Lindsey or the band, they should perhaps read the entire book. I have no problem with the criticism or "reviews", just be sure you know what you are reviewing.

Glenn

[DeeGeMe]

Exactly. Read the book first before making any uninformed, snap judgments.

Here's what I know about publishers and publishing: for example, in the account where she has to go to the hospital and ends up in a neck brace because Lindsey had choked her and damaged the soft tissues in her neck, I don't think she would have been able to make that accusation without having those medical records as backup or she and the publishers could face a huge libel suit from Lindsey's legal team. And he ain't suing which tells me that at least that one incident has got to be true.

But with any point-of-view autobiographical books, there's always going to be some recalling of incidents a little differently than if other participants were telling the story. It'll be interesting if any of the FM camp has anything to say about this book or if anyone will ever ask them about it period.

From what I read, my take was that she was pretty damn honest about how often she was hitting cocaine, and she talks about using way more than she ever accuses LB of taking it. I'm a little dubious about her claims that they'd get 100% clean from coke when they weren't on tour. I've never done it but I thought it was something that once you were using, you pretty much had to have 24/7-365. Maybe they didn't use as MUCH but I kinda wondered about that but having no knowledge of drugs I really can't say for sure. But she's really not trying to paint herself as "I was the only sober person in the FM camp" by any stretch of the imagination although she does say she never developed a taste for liquor, just coke while the rest of the crew were pretty fond of "adult beverages".

And I really don't see how writing that book makes her ammoral. Come on, no one in FM is perfect by any stretch of the imagination! If anyone thinks that, well, maybe they haven't been following the band for 30 plus years like I have.

[mgikallaroundme]

Exactly. Read the book first before making any uninformed, snap judgments.

Here's what I know about publishers and publishing: for example, in the account where she has to go to the hospital and ends up in a neck brace because Lindsey had choked her and damaged the soft tissues in her neck, I don't think she would have been able to make that accusation without having those medical records as backup or she and the publishers could face a huge libel suit from Lindsey's legal team. And he ain't suing which tells me that at least that one incident has got to be true.

All this tells me is that you don't know jack about publishing or the confidentiality of medical records. You can't get someone's private medical records even if you think they've lied about something you did or didn't do. These days you can also get anything published under most circumstances. It doesn't have to be true. You can tell bold face lies in print and on television and still not be held accountable. Memiors have been proven completely fabricated and nothing was done to the publisher or the author. Take that guy who had a fake memior promoted onto the best seller list by Oprah. What about the guy who made up an entire magazine/newspaper series about a child heroin addict that won the Pulitzer Prize? It was 100% fake. Nothing happened to either of them. The publisher's weren't sued even though people paid good money to read something they were told was fact and it turned out to be totally fabricated.

American publishers are not liable for falsehoods in someone's so-called memiors. The source is accountable for what is printed. Good luck with a lawsuit on that basis especially if it is against a vanity publisher like the one that printed this book. If you have the money you can get anything published in this country. It doesn't have to be authentic. It doesn't have to be truthful whatsoever. Pay upfront and you can get a book out. Nobody cares what your purpose is. Just because something is in print or online or said on TV doesn't make it true. Let's get real. :p Carol has not made a dime on this book. You can make bank on it. Money was payed out to get this trash into circulation and I'm sure if Buckingham cared one bit about her telling this tall tale he would say something. He hasn't. That tells me he couldn't care less. ;)

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

[michelle2677]

^^um. this is off topic, but why do you keep sticking that picture after every post?

you know you can just stick it in your sig and that way you won't have to keep posting it, right?

[mgikallaroundme]

^^um. this is off topic, but why do you keep sticking that picture after every post?

you know you can just stick it in your sig and that way you won't have to keep posting it, right?

This matters to you because? :shrug:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[michelle2677]

This matters to you because? :shrug:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

hey, i'm just trying to make it easier for you, but if you want to be an ass about it...by all means waste your time and post it after every single post :shrug:





:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[mgikallaroundme]

hey, i'm just trying to make it easier for you, but if you want to be a dick about it...by all means waste your time and post it after every single post :shrug:





:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Thanks for your help and concern. I'll take it under advisement. :xoxo:

PS: I know you can use a signature photo. If I wanted one I'd have one. :xoxo:http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

[michelle2677]

Thanks for your help and concern. I'll take it under advisement. :xoxo:

PS: I know you can use a signature photo. If I wanted one I'd have one. :xoxo:http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg


okay, sweet :)


and okie dokie :)

[mgikallaroundme]

okay, sweet :)


and okie dokie :)

:wavey:

Just another aside, not really off topic, but rather than discuss my lack of signature photo aren't you or anyone else the least bit curious why the Lindsey forum has been purged of other discussion threads besides this one? :confused:

We have a few photo threads left along with sixteen pages of Carol Ann Harris. :shocked:

Lindsey just ended a ten month tour and he has fewer threads than everyone on the board including Peter Green. What's up with that? :woohoo:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

[trackaghost]

Why are you making life harder for yourself by not putting that picture into your signature? It makes no sense whatsoever and it's annoying.

And The Ledge has been down for around two weeks so there hasn't been any Lindsey discussion at all. But then of all your 22 posts I see most have been criticising Carol Ann Harris in these very threads you look down on so much. If you want other Lindsey discussions, you're not exactly helping to steer the conversation into other areas are you?

[michelle2677]

Why are you making life harder for yourself by not putting that picture into your signature? It makes no sense whatsoever and it's annoying.

And The Ledge has been down for around two weeks so there hasn't been any Lindsey discussion at all. But then of all your 22 posts I see most have been criticising Carol Ann Harris in these very threads you look down on so much. If you want other Lindsey discussions, you're not exactly helping to steer the conversation into other areas are you?


well, and not to mention all the threads keep getting closed :lol:

[wolfontherun]

Immoral people are essentially dishonest and play by rules not sanctioned by society and without regards for how their behavior(s) may negatively impact others. In that respect, CAH is immoral. Immoral people seldom tell the truth, let alone live it. They are masters at making a lie seem real. The vast majority of them habitually try to escape accountability, by playing the hapless, and yes, perennial victim of others (in particular) or circumstances (in general.)

Secondly, her personal, accountings/observations about the members of FWM, are thereby, flawed and just like her character, unreliable and untrustworthy. What other members of the band said about her or each other, is not a sound argument to justify the support of her spiteful, and often inaccurate, literary betrayal of the confidences of others. Nor does the argument that a book publisher would not have supported her efforts by publishing her work, if what she said, was not sanctionable. Case in point, one such publishing house paid O.J. Simpson big bucks to co-write a book entitled "What If I Did It?" Indeed!:eek:

Lastly, CAH was never a member of the band and her motivations for telling tales now, after fences have been mended within the band only reflects her unrelenting bitterness over not being "An Insider."

If your life is a mess, then it is because of the unwise choices that you have made. If you continue to have negative things happen to you without changing what you are doing, then you have only yourself to blame. CAH seldom blames herself, but always blames others/circumstances for the negative things that happen to her.

By and large, things just don't happen to us but we make them happen. Just mull-over these five points for example. She could have chosen to act responsibly but she repeatedly chose not to. Our behaviors reveal our true character and, quite frankly, I find her behaviors deplorable and, as such, reflective of a person of immoral character.

I am not being sanctimonious, as one poster inaccurately pointed out, instead I am questioning her motives for (mis)leading the public into believing what she has to say is actually a true and accurate accounting of the "Storms" within the band or even between her and Lindsey. To do that I have examined what she has done and is doing with her own life. People who point fingers at others, while making themselves look beyond reproach, are liars and fakes.

CAH is an asocial, if not anti-social, user who is still, trying to distract from the fact, that she was her own worst enemy in the "Storms" that brewed around the Mac family; not Stevie and not Lindsey. We teach people how to treat us, one famous TV psychologist preaches daily to his audience, and he is right. If people are mistreating you then you either put your foot down and stop it or you leave. And, what CAD does is, she immorally sacrifices her first born child and eventually her own personal safety, to attain the rock star lifestyle that she couldn't obviously earn on her own merits/talents but calculatingly and vicariously tries to gain through her associations with stars.

How telling that, twenty years later she is dishing it for the dollar rather than earning her keep through her musical talents and abilities; whether as a sound engineer or an artist. As I stated in an earlier post, it is also quite telling that she makes sure everyone knows, on her dedication page, that her current husband is a musician. Who cares? She does because even today, she can still only identify herself, in the entertainment business, by her latest man.

Point 1: She was deceitful and unfaithful when she willingly cheated, on her live-in boyfriend and father of her unwanted child, with LB.

Point 2: Rather than take responsibility for her own body and the welfare of any children that she might have, she fails to either marry her sexual partner or practice adequate birth control and proceeds to get pregnant out of wedlock. She was, therefore, acting irresponsibly, without principles and without discipline.
In short, she knowingly and willingly engaged in asocial behaviors, without any consideration for the welfare of any children that she might bring into this world when she had sex with a man with whom she had no legal ties. She was not a naive 15 year old living in her family's home back in Oklahoma. She was a grown woman living and working in Hollywood.

Point 3: Instead of acting responsibly and getting a better paying job and/or taking advantage of the social welfare programs available in the liberal state of California to help her keep her child, she shifts her responsibilities onto someone else. She dumps the child to continue her pursuit of a star which for her is her true career.

Point 4: She leaves one boyfriend's bed to move in with another (LB) and continues the self-destructive pattern of living without legally marrying her (sexual) partner and, once again, becomes pregnant out-of-wedlock.

That fact is laws are, codified morals, enacted by society for a reason and that is to deter us from engaging in behaviors that are injurious/unjust to ourselves and others. Bringing children into a situation where there is no established legal union/arrangement in place to support our child or ourselves, is again irresponsible and unfair to any children, such an illicit union, might produce.

Point 5: Bootlegging concert albums is illegal and a felony. Like most criminals, she makes no apologies for what she has done. Wonder what she would think if someone bootlegged her book and cut her out of her share of the profits?

I remain firm in my observation that her book sheds no light on the "Storms" within the MAC as she touts. It's a vain attempt to recapture the fame and fortune she set out to garner when she set out for Hollywood thirty some odd years ago. Her story is no different than Anna Nicole Smith's and you saw how that one ended.

CarolC


OK already we get it now be gone!

[catinthedark]

All this tells me is that you don't know jack about publishing or the confidentiality of medical records. You can't get someone's private medical records even if you think they've lied about something you did or didn't do. These days you can also get anything published under most circumstances. It doesn't have to be true. You can tell bold face lies in print and on television and still not be held accountable. Memiors have been proven completely fabricated and nothing was done to the publisher or the author. Take that guy who had a fake memior promoted onto the best seller list by Oprah. What about the guy who made up an entire magazine/newspaper series about a child heroin addict that won the Pulitzer Prize? It was 100% fake. Nothing happened to either of them. The publisher's weren't sued even though people paid good money to read something they were told was fact and it turned out to be totally fabricated.

i have to say, with all due respect, that i disagree with much of your post. and i am a professional writer, so while i don't purport by any means to know it all, i think i have some insight.

making up a memoir based on "your own life" is very different from making things up in a memoir that involve someone else. i don't think CAH could have gotten away with publishing flat out lies about lindsey, or about stevie or any of the others, for that matter. and i think that this book has gone through many levels of legal action. it had at least one other previous publishing date; it was postponed, delayed. i think that is because it was going through lindsey and stevie's lawyers. at this point, i believe what she has published is her take on what happened - and cannot be legally disputed by either lindsay or stevie. they're not idiots - and they're not without considerable funds. if they thought they could prove what she wrote was false in court, they would have. that doesn't mean it is 100% accurate; it doesn't mean it's 100% INaccurate. it means no one can prove it otherwise in a court of law.


American publishers are not liable for falsehoods in someone's so-called memiors. The source is accountable for what is printed. Good luck with a lawsuit on that basis especially if it is against a vanity publisher like the one that printed this book. If you have the money you can get anything published in this country. It doesn't have to be authentic. It doesn't have to be truthful whatsoever. Pay upfront and you can get a book out. Nobody cares what your purpose is. Just because something is in print or online or said on TV doesn't make it true. Let's get real. :p Carol has not made a dime on this book. You can make bank on it. Money was payed out to get this trash into circulation and I'm sure if Buckingham cared one bit about her telling this tall tale he would say something. He hasn't. That tells me he couldn't care less. ;)

i think THAT ias the key. i think both stevie and lindsey had their lawyers interfere with the parts they could; what's left, they figured, what's the big deal? everyone has heard about it already. and truthfully, we all have, no? i haven't read the book, but i've read everything people have written about it and i've learned nothing new - nothing i haven't read various versions of in interviews or in mick's book through the years.

you can bet carol ann HAS made some money off tihs. a publisher paid her to write it. will she make grand royalties off it? probably not. as much as WE may care, we are a drop in the drop of the drop in a bucket of readers out there. the potential audience of this book is tiny. truly, it is already SO five minutes ago. and won't change how anyone sees or hears fleetwood mac or stevie nicks or lindsey buckingham.

[camchristo]

I actually found it to be the other way around. Yes, there is a lot of Stevie in it, but she seems to dismiss everything out of hand concerning her. Like she was the smallest blip on the radar ever. She says Lindsey didn't give a rat's ass about her at all, except when he had to deal with her on a professional level. She speaks about some incidents in great detail, she elaborates on what a few of his songs are about, as long as she thinks they are about her. But then she completely evades why Lindsey had those aggressive outbursts, even when it's obvious they coincide with what was going on with Stevie at the time, and she also does not speak about the songs that are definitely not about her. She does not bring up anything personal between Stevie and Lindsey, even though she keeps bringing up the triangle she is stuck in. To me it didn't seem all that tough, and I know it had to have been tougher. She also speaks in great lengths about the bizarreness between Lindsey and Stevie that went on in Australia and New Zealand during the Tusk tour, but she doesn't breathe one word about why they were like that or what was going on between them. She keeps bringing the subject back to her, as if Stevie didn't even matter when obviously she played a big part in some of those major events. In fact, I find her stuff about Stevie, at least the parts where she says she thought of her as this 'beautiful rock and roll goddess' and how she wanted to be friends with her completely forced, because she doesn't resist any chance to make her look like a fool, or to one up her. It's very conflicting.

At the end it had gotten so bad that I almost expected her to say that Lindsey asked "What do you want, you blubbering fool?" when Stevie called his house, sobbing, right after Robin died. Because throughout the entire book that was the tone. It was the only moment in those 7 years where he seemed almost normal.

Hey, I haven't read the book yet, waiting for it to get here from Amazon. I'm just curious though, since I have no knowledge of this. What was going on with Stevie that cause LB to freak at various times? Also, what when down in Australia and New Zealand with them during Tusk?

One more question. You really know a lot about timelines and info regarding tour dates, relationships, you name it. I can only aspire to your level of knowledge, but I'd like to try. Where do you get your info?

[carrie721]

OK already we get it now be gone!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

sorry, i find it kind of funny that you quoted that long-ass 2 week old post in its entirety to just tell her to go away :laugh: that post was pretty well forgotten by most people, i'd guess. :shrug:

[carrie721]

One more question. You really know a lot about timelines and info regarding tour dates, relationships, you name it. I can only aspire to your level of knowledge, but I'd like to try. Where do you get your info?

she is The Vanessa. no one knows where her information comes from. she is just ... The Vanessa. :laugh:

[mgikallaroundme]

i have to say, with all due respect, that i disagree with much of your post. and i am a professional writer, so while i don't purport by any means to know it all, i think i have some insight.

making up a memoir based on "your own life" is very different from making things up in a memoir that involve someone else. i don't think CAH could have gotten away with publishing flat out lies about lindsey, or about stevie or any of the others, for that matter. and i think that this book has gone through many levels of legal action. it had at least one other previous publishing date; it was postponed, delayed. i think that is because it was going through lindsey and stevie's lawyers. at this point, i believe what she has published is her take on what happened - and cannot be legally disputed by either lindsay or stevie. they're not idiots - and they're not without considerable funds. if they thought they could prove what she wrote was false in court, they would have. that doesn't mean it is 100% accurate; it doesn't mean it's 100% INaccurate. it means no one can prove it otherwise in a court of law.




i think THAT ias the key. i think both stevie and lindsey had their lawyers interfere with the parts they could; what's left, they figured, what's the big deal? everyone has heard about it already. and truthfully, we all have, no? i haven't read the book, but i've read everything people have written about it and i've learned nothing new - nothing i haven't read various versions of in interviews or in mick's book through the years.

you can bet carol ann HAS made some money off tihs. a publisher paid her to write it. will she make grand royalties off it? probably not. as much as WE may care, we are a drop in the drop of the drop in a bucket of readers out there. the potential audience of this book is tiny. truly, it is already SO five minutes ago. and won't change how anyone sees or hears fleetwood mac or stevie nicks or lindsey buckingham.


As a professional writer, with insight and such, I don't suppose you learned anywhere that a sentence begins with a capital letter? :confused:

What makes you think Stevie Nicks or Lindsey Buckingham would want to dispute anything in this book? I don't assume it. I highly doubt it. So what if the book had a prior publication date? How does that make it an accurate or truthful picture of anything? Also, what makes you think Carol Ann Harris was paid by a publisher to publish this stuff? Someone might have been paid. It is not the person you believe is earning handsome royalties. :lol: You just assume it to be true. I assume it is not true. I know a thing or two about book publishing. Anyone can self-publish anything they want to see in print. It doesn't have to be true, accurate, or even certifiable as non-fiction to be passed off as a such. People can also publish books under assumed names. You would never know unless the author wanted you to know. If anyone sees this book on the shelf of any major public or academic library I might assume it is a legitimate work. Otherwise, being for sale through major book distrubution channels doesn't prove it went through any editorial review, quality control, or legal review. None at all.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z184/mgikman_photos/3_dollar_bill.jpg

[danax6]

Hey, I haven't read the book yet, waiting for it to get here from Amazon. I'm just curious though, since I have no knowledge of this. What was going on with Stevie that cause LB to freak at various times? Also, what when down in Australia and New Zealand with them during Tusk?****, you're quoting two-week old posts. Now I have to think long and hard about what the **** I was talking about again. I'm at work so I don't have the book handy to verify some of the things I am trying to remember. One of the things that struck me as odd was that CAH specifically mentions that while Lindsey was writing songs like Not That Funny he became a little more aggressive, sexually and I guess in general. She elaborates on what the songs are about when she thinks they are about her, like Save Me A Place, but then completely dismisses why Lindsey was behaving the way he was when writing those others songs. We all know the timeline coincides with Stevie and Mick doing the hanky panky and everyone being aware of it, but according to CAH he was indifferent, didn't care at all, that he probably didn't even notice. It's been said by at least 3 different people that Mick sat down at Lindsey's kitchen table at one point and told him about the affair, yet CAH never brings this up either. Where did she suppose those songs came from? :shrug:

As for Oz and New Zealand. It was blatantly obvious something was going on between Lindsey and Stevie, but CAH only talks about the kicking incident on stage. This was all right around the time that Stevie apparantly went ape-**** on CAH and said that it would be a cold day in hell before she'd let Carol marry Lindsey. Then when Lindsey gets aggressive with CAH, she only talks about herself, what her role was in all of it, and she wonders if she did anything wrong to deserve it. To the reader, it's obvious Lindsey's demons coming out had to do with whatever was going on with Stevie, but once again CAH pretends that she doesn't exist, plays an insignificant part in the 'triangle'. She keeps saying Lindsey was indifferent towards Stevie. Well, obviously he wasn't, but what made him lash out like that? :shrug:

These are all just things that make it clear to me that CAH turned the story into a certain direction, one that is at the least very one-sided. Which I guess was to be expected, considering this is her book, but it just annoys me because I feel like I am missing huge chunks of the story. Chunks that she left out deliberately and that for me makes it hard to take her book seriously.

One more question. You really know a lot about timelines and info regarding tour dates, relationships, you name it. I can only aspire to your level of knowledge, but I'd like to try. Where do you get your info?I'm in Fleetwood Mac College. :laugh:

Nah, my mind just really has an endless capacity for useless information. It's scary.

[danax6]

she is The Vanessa. no one knows where her information comes from. she is just ... The Vanessa. :laugh:bitch. :laugh:

[DeeGeMe]

All this tells me is that you don't know jack about publishing or the confidentiality of medical records. You can't get someone's private medical records even if you think they've lied about something you did or didn't do. These days you can also get anything published under most circumstances. It doesn't have to be true. You can tell bold face lies in print and on television and still not be held accountable. Memiors have been proven completely fabricated and nothing was done to the publisher or the author. Take that guy who had a fake memior promoted onto the best seller list by Oprah. What about the guy who made up an entire magazine/newspaper series about a child heroin addict that won the Pulitzer Prize? It was 100% fake. Nothing happened to either of them. The publisher's weren't sued even though people paid good money to read something they were told was fact and it turned out to be totally fabricated. American publishers are not liable for falsehoods in someone's so-called memiors. The source is accountable for what is printed. Good luck with a lawsuit on that basis especially if it is against a vanity publisher like the one that printed this book. If you have the money you can get anything published in this country. It doesn't have to be authentic. It doesn't have to be truthful whatsoever. Pay upfront and you can get a book out. Nobody cares what your purpose is. Just because something is in print or online or said on TV doesn't make it true. Let's get real. :p Carol has not made a dime on this book. You can make bank on it. Money was payed out to get this trash into circulation and I'm sure if Buckingham cared one bit about her telling this tall tale he would say something. He hasn't. That tells me he couldn't care less.

All CAH would have to do is request her medial records be released and viola, she gets them and there is her proof. We know that LB has a certain history when it comes to violence against women and that is by his own admission and the first hand accounts of various band members. And he most certainly could sue for what was in that book if it weren't true and that tells me all I need to know about what you THINK you know and what's reality about who you can sue and what you can sue over.

And to whomever posted the rant before this about how CAH was immoral, etc. because she didn't practice birth control and horror of horrors, had sex with someone without being married to them (the hussy!)---excuse me but Lindsey's wife, whose name escapes me at the moment, didn't she either have their first kid before they were married or they got married while she was pregnant with the first kid? What does that make her exactly?

Really, LB isn't perfect, not by a longshot. I think even he would tell you that. Drugs and alcohol also make people very different than what their "normal selves" would be. The fact remains she had the right to tell her story, yes there are always 2 sides to a story but what is being written here on this board about how CAH is an agent of the devil and LB is a perfect angel should be filed in the "fiction" category. The truth, I'm sure, lies somewhere between the two with both of them.

[missus]

I had to think twice about posting here but I wanted to give you all
my opinion of Carols book.

I was present at a lot of the times she mentions , i.e the Halloween Party
in Hancock Park , the gig in Philadelphia when Lindsey was hospitalized ( I
opened up for them, along with Steve Miller and others), at the Producers
workshop when they were putting od's on Rumors, and also whrn Lindsey was producing parts of "Sentimental Lady" at that same studio(Producers Workshop), in Sausulito during much of the recording of Rumors , at Village
Recorderes studio D when they were doing Tusk many many nights,
at Stevies various houses at different times, at Micks Bel-Air house on Bellagio Rd after the "big" meeting , at Micks "Blue Whale " house in
Malibu when he was with Sara Recor, backstage before they went on , on
their private plane when I was opening up for them and Mick was my
manager etc. etc. etc., backstage when Dennis Wilson was on the road with them.......and on and on.I remeber the "bottle caps" (they were Heinekin caps;-)..... the "bumps" on the fist ( I got 'em too , from J.C.)all of that.
I was around Carol Harris a lot. Let me say that , for me, everything she portrays rings true. I never witnessed any personal violence toward her from Lindsey of course, but having been at a lot of the scenes she describes, I would agree with her recreation of the settings , mood,
and personalities of the people and places as she portrays them.

That's my 2 cents...

Bob Welch