View Full Version : Just Skimmed Through STORMS
Madelow
02-17-2009, 12:00 AM
Hello All-- After having finished "Storms" by Carol Ann Harris, I think Tango's post of 06-30-07 best describes my feelings about FM fans buying the book. I found it a fascinating read, and suggest that all fans of the band give it a look. Best always, Madelow. p.s. I agree that the photos are universally bad.:mad:
macpai
02-17-2009, 04:24 PM
I personally had to bail on the book. It was just too romance-novelly written to me. It's like I couldn't believe the source. Not that she's not telling the truth on some level because I believe she is as best as she knows it, but just that her view of the truth was off in the play-by-play and that made me not get into it.
Did anyone else bail or did most everyone get through it?
jbrownsjr
02-17-2009, 07:05 PM
I personally had to bail on the book. It was just too romance-novelly written to me. It's like I couldn't believe the source. Not that she's not telling the truth on some level because I believe she is as best as she knows it, but just that her view of the truth was off in the play-by-play and that made me not get into it.
Did anyone else bail or did most everyone get through it?
I got through it... I liked it very much... Better than MIck's book... IMO
michelej1
02-17-2009, 07:16 PM
I read it within a few hours of getting it in my hands. I found it very entertaining. It made me smile and I liked the romantic parts.
I suppose the book contained some truth, but not an overload of it. If I knew nothing about FM going in and had never heard of Carol Ann, I would not think she was a credible person. She seems to have a need for attention that makes her writing fantastical.
Just as a small example, she says she was wearing a see-through skirt standing in the wings of the stage while Stevie was performing. Suddenly, everyone in the audience stopped watching Fleetwood Mac and started staring at her in her transparent skirt. Um? I think that happened . . . never.
I mean, from the moment the book started and she described her and her many (6?) sisters all curled up in corners reading (presumably Tolstoy) as she was growing up, I knew she was trying to present herself as cultured, literary, intelligent and innocent and I suspected that presentation was false. The book continued on in that same vein, but yet it was a great read.
I just think back to watching her on that Discovery Health channel show about 5 years ago, when she was preparing for repeat plastic surgery. She was thumbing lovingly through the pictures of herself with Fleetwood Mac and saying how she wanted to attain the look she had back then, when she felt she was most beautiful. I got a perception of her as desperate and fragile, living in the past and trying to recapture a time that was far from perfect, but was the happiest she's been. When the book came out, it reinforced that image.
Michele
slowdancer
02-17-2009, 08:44 PM
I think Storms is a wretched book—poorly written for one. It was very hard to read. Another is CA constantly makes herself out to be a victim, as if the Mac drove her to take drugs. She rarely takes responsibility for her actions. She is so shallow and, unfortunately, she has no real insight into the character of the man with whom she spent almost ten years.
I don’t doubt that LB slapped her around, unfortunately, but she never gives us any clue as to why. I would imagine these rages came about after heavy drug use? I don’t condone what he did, but she doesn’t seem to know why they had a relationship that was so violent.
I wanted the book to be about all the members of the band, but they come across as vapid as she. And maybe they are, but I was hoping for a real in depth look at what made these people click musically. Also, more of the craziness that was their lives back then. She never was really in the loop, so why this book? For the money I suspect. But the media never reviewed it, so it never got the publicity that Patti Boyd’s book got.
I was amused that she could remember outfits she wore—she wrote about them in such detail. Also, what in the world did she do with all those hours LB was locked in his studio? Did she cook, clean house, read a book? What did she do? What did she think? Her life with LB seemed devoid of harmony, safety or creativity. She was locked in a house of horrors, it sounds like, especially after drugs took over her life.
whitewingdove73
03-21-2009, 11:10 PM
I didn't like this book at all.
I wish Lindsay or Stevie would have said something about it...
It's weird he didn't sue for defamation of character or something. :shrug:
Gailh
03-22-2009, 04:50 AM
It's weird he didn't sue for defamation of character or something. :shrug:
There are probably two reasons why he didn't take some kind of legal action
1) It's all true and he would lose
2) He didn't want to give the book the oxygen of publicity so whether it was true or not she would still gain
I don't know which one of these it would be. I don't think she could have got away with the story about the incident at Christine's house without that having a huge amount of truth in it. I suspect that nobody in Fleetwood Mac (past or present) has commented because they don't want to give her the publicity.
Gail
CADreaming
03-22-2009, 07:34 AM
I didn't like this book at all.
I wish Lindsay or Stevie would have said something about it...
In their own way...what song are they doing this tour that they've never played live before? :thumbsup:
TrueFaith77
03-22-2009, 09:43 AM
In their own way...what song are they doing this tour that they've never played live before? :thumbsup:
Yeah, and it's called "Always Been A Storm," b*tch! :laugh:
Tango
03-22-2009, 11:09 AM
There are probably two reasons why he didn't take some kind of legal action
1) It's all true and he would lose
2) He didn't want to give the book the oxygen of publicity so whether it was true or not she would still gain
I don't know which one of these it would be. I don't think she could have got away with the story about the incident at Christine's house without that having a huge amount of truth in it. I suspect that nobody in Fleetwood Mac (past or present) has commented because they don't want to give her the publicity.
Gail
I think you're right Gail on all of the above. When you mentioned "oxygen" I immediately thought of Oprah and the attention she is spending on Chris Brown and Rhianna (close enough to the word Rhiannon, in my mind). I'd hate to think the only way Opray would ever give attention to Fleetwood Mac would be due to this book, but I think I know what Oprah would be saying.
Tango
03-22-2009, 12:32 PM
I'm thinking more about all of this, and what Gail wrote. We know Fleetwood Mac chose to ignore the book. Were they wrong? Or maybe it's not Fleetwood Mac's place to respond, as that conversation would have to start with Lindsey. I think of Truman, The buck stops here. While this book probably induced concerns financial terror among the rest of the band (and maybe even some praying to the 'commercial gods'?), while listening to Lindsey's spoken words on "Surrender The Rain" (OOTC) I wonder what his thoughts were. Right now his thoughts are probably focused on the tour and his family. Would facing the book with someone like Oprah bring integrity and interest back to the band or would it just be commercial suicide? What do you think?
CADreaming
03-22-2009, 03:41 PM
Yeah, and it's called "Always Been A Storm," b*tch! :laugh:
LOL...take that, Carol Ann!
Gailh
03-22-2009, 03:59 PM
I'm thinking more about all of this, and what Gail wrote. We know Fleetwood Mac chose to ignore the book. Were they wrong? Or maybe it's not Fleetwood Mac's place to respond, as that conversation would have to start with Lindsey. I think of Truman, The buck stops here. While this book probably induced concerns financial terror among the rest of the band (and maybe even some praying to the 'commercial gods'?), while listening to Lindsey's spoken words on "Surrender The Rain" (OOTC) I wonder what his thoughts were. Right now his thoughts are probably focused on the tour and his family. Would facing the book with someone like Oprah bring integrity and interest back to the band or would it just be commercial suicide? What do you think?
I think it would be a dangerous game to play. Outside of this forum the furore has died down so why not just leave it? Whenever a decision is made to take legal action a whole load of other stuff invariably comes out and why put his family through that?
I think they did the right thing and basically ignored it (for now) I wouldn't be surprised in a few years if it gets spoken about
Gail
michelej1
03-22-2009, 05:19 PM
It's weird he didn't sue for defamation of character or something. :shrug:
Even if he sued and everything Carol wrote was a lie, he'd lose the case. Carol didn't really say anything that you can disprove factually. And you can't win a libel case based on he said/she said -- at least not in the U.S. where the person suing would have the burden of proof. In other countries, the person who published the allegedly defamatory statement would have the burden of proof and so it's easier to prove defamation, but not here.
Since we've all been thinking of Natasha Richardson, I remember the 1999 defamation lawsuit she and Liam won against the Belfast Telegraph, a publication that claimed their marriage was over. That was in the UK. They never would have won in the United States, because our defamation laws are so different.
Also, stating your opinion of what happened is not defamatory. You really can't sue on things that are subject to different points of view -- especially in this case where you're talking incidents that are 25+ years old and witnesses are not likely to have clear recollections.
Now, if she said something like she filed a police report for assault and you could go back and show that no police report was ever filed or the report contradicted what she said, that would be evidence. Or if she said she went to a doctor for treatment and he had her medical records which disputed that, that would be evidence. But having someone like fellow band members dispute descriptions of what Carol wrote is hardly strong enough evidence to win a defamation suit. For one thing, having two people say something instead of one, doesn't mean it's true or untrue. Even if Christine backed Lindsey up and said they never had a physical fight at Christine's house, that doesn't mean Lindsey would win his case. It's not "true" for a judge or jury, just because more people say it's true. Further, fellow band members aren't disinterested parties. It's not the same as having an objective third party witness (like a stranger in a bar) testify.
Also, a defamation suit is one thing, that seeks damages for injury to his reputation. But if you are talking about a lawsuit that would take her book off the shelves or make her have to delete or rewrite portions of it, that is more than defamation. That involves a restraint on freedom of speech, a constitutional right and that kind of lawsuit where you would be requesting injunctive relief (to keep the book from being sold) is even harder to prove.
Going back to defamation (libel) I think he would lose a libel suit, not necessarily because what Carol wrote is true, but because he couldn't meet his burden of proof to prevail. That would be tantamount to a criminal case where you have someone being acquitted of murder, not because they were "innocent" but because guilt couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. In this sort of civil case, as the party bringing the lawsuit, Lindsey would have to be the one proving Carol's guilt in lying. She would not have to be the one proving that what she said was true. Lindsey, the plaintiff, would have the burden of proof.
I don't think there's any way he could prove a negative, prove that something did not happen. I mean, he can dispute factual things, like dates, locations, a miscarriage which was treated in a hospital, etc., but he can't disprove actions or words that didn't happen in public.
The most he could do is sue her and, because he has more money than she does, force her into a settlement because she'd have to pay exorbitant legal costs to fight his case.
Michele
whitewingdove73
03-22-2009, 10:37 PM
Thanks for explaining all that for me. Makes lots of sense. ;)
Gailh
03-23-2009, 08:41 AM
Very nicely explained Michele.
although I suppose there must be some medical records the only witness was Christine and as you say a good lawyer would claim that she was hardly impartial.
As I said before I think in a few years time all this might raise it's ugly head again
Gail
michelej1
03-23-2009, 12:20 PM
although I suppose there must be some medical records
Gail
Yes. I remember she was at the doctor for the miscarriage, but I don't know if she said she went to the doctor after any of the attacks or not.
Michele
Gailh
03-23-2009, 02:00 PM
Yes. I remember she was at the doctor for the miscarriage, but I don't know if she said she went to the doctor after any of the attacks or not.
Michele
I might be remembering this wrong but wasn't there something where a doctor told her something like "he wont change and it will get worse" or words to that effect. So presumably there would still be a record of that?
Gail
TrueFaith77
03-23-2009, 02:36 PM
I might be remembering this wrong but wasn't there something where a doctor told her something like "he wont change and it will get worse" or words to that effect. So presumably there would still be a record of that?
Gail
Right but I don't remember why she was there. Psychological or physical?
CADreaming
03-23-2009, 05:08 PM
Right but I don't remember why she was there. Psychological or physical?
That struck me as sort of funny...sorry...
Tango
03-23-2009, 05:39 PM
Yes. I remember she was at the doctor for the miscarriage, but I don't know if she said she went to the doctor after any of the attacks or not.
Michele
Check out pages 352-353
It's been awhile since I read that book and I think it's packed away somewhere now so I couldn't read those pages mentioned above.
What really stuck out about the book was how immature the author sounded. Not necessarily is this a slight on the content, but her voice. She painted herself out as a very innocent, insecure, clingy type. And while I don't know her personally, it almost seems as though she didn't quite mature much from the person she described. It's like she wants us, the readers, to believe she was sort of forced into this lifestyle and had no say whatsoever in many of the choices she made. And of course everyone appeared to do more drugs than her, though in that video where she's seen backstage shadowing Lindsey she looks more strung out than anyone else aside from Mick...:shrug:
I remember a lot of incidents where she was sick or Lindsey was sick. In fact, is it my imagination or was his health kind of not-so-great? I just remember a lot of different parts in the book where he was either in the hospital, on a plane lying down, having tests done, etc. I felt kind of bad for him...but then again it could have all been just one time and in my failing memory I got that confused.:rolleyes:
michelej1
03-23-2009, 08:18 PM
I remember a lot of incidents where she was sick or Lindsey was sick. In fact, is it my imagination or was his health kind of not-so-great? I just remember a lot of different parts in the book where he was either in the hospital, on a plane lying down, having tests done, etc. I felt kind of bad for him...but then again it could have all been just one time and in my failing memory I got that confused.:rolleyes:
I think in her book he was basically sick that one time with the spinal tap (if you don't count throwing up around Dick Clark), but I did find it interesting that outside of the book when asked whether he had mono (and if that's where ISA came from) he said he really didn't have it. He was just sick for a year and the family doctor didn't know what it was and he said it was actually never diagnosed. I thought that was rather weird, for such a young person.
Stevie said Lindsey's father ailed and dwindled away for months before he died. Then his brother died at 45. They don't sound like a healthy bunch of folks.
Michele
CADreaming
03-23-2009, 08:26 PM
I think in her book he was basically sick that one time with the spinal tap (if you don't count throwing up around Dick Clark), but I did find it interesting that outside of the book when asked whether he had mono (and if that's where ISA came from) he said he really didn't have it. He was just sick for a year and the family doctor didn't know what it was and he said it was actually never diagnosed. I thought that was rather weird, for such a young person.
Stevie said Lindsey's father ailed and dwindled away for months before he died. Then his brother died at 45. They don't sound like a healthy bunch of folks.
Michele
Michele, that's the first I've heard LB not really having mono. Interesting. What was the time frame on that? SnL moved to LA and then moved back when he was sick?
Never heard about LB's dad being sick before either. I'm assuming it was known he had heart trouble?
Sorry about the grammar...I meant "laying" down.
It's news to me about him saying he didn't have mono. Actually, I never heard him talk about it, so...lol!
But, yeah, in the book it just seemed he was sick a lot. Wasn't there also mention of him having severe stomach cramps where he had to go to the doctor and have tests? I remember that being in there when they were recording Tusk.
OMG, I hope Lindsey's seeming great health and physical appearance means he takes extra good care of himself, because you are making me a little worried re: the family history, Michele. But his mom lived a long time. Maybe as well as her face and physique he also inherited her health genes and will be able to release 20 more albums before any sad stuff has to happen...as I dream...sigh...:o
CADreaming
03-23-2009, 08:36 PM
Sorry about the grammar...I meant "laying" down.
It's news to me about him saying he didn't have mono. Actually, I never heard him talk about it, so...lol!
But, yeah, in the book it just seemed he was sick a lot. Wasn't there also mention of him having severe stomach cramps where he had to go to the doctor and have tests? I remember that being in there when they were recording Tusk.
I wonder if that coincides with Stevie's carpet bur...I mean stomach welps? :D
I wonder if that coincides with Stevie's carpet bur...I mean stomach welps? :D
What's that about? :)
CADreaming
03-23-2009, 08:52 PM
What's that about? :)
When Stevie jacked CAH up in the wings (she says) and told her she wouldn't let her marry Lindsey. Then the next day CAH rats her out to LB and he has some hours long "meeting" with Stevie over the event, to set her straight, dadgummit. Then, LB tells CAH upon his exhausted return to their room, that Stevie needed to speak to her at the venue that night. So, CAH is summoned by the Queen into her quarters and she then proceeds to show CAH how she was SO UPSET over the whole incident that she had welps or a rash all over her stomach. All was good. They were then friends. CAH was relieved. Stevie was happy. The world kept turning...
hehehe...stomach welps...yeah..."meeting"...yeah...that book is so entertaining. :lol:
michelej1
03-23-2009, 09:01 PM
Lindsey may have talked about the mono in an audio interview. I think he said ISA was written in San Jose and the guy asked him if the mood of the song was because he was lethargic due to mono and he said no and that it was really weird, because he turned out not to have mono.
As for his dad, yes I guess he was diagnosed with a heart problem and Stevie said they watched him go downhill right before their eyes.
But regarding Lindsey, I'm sure he's in perfect health. I was just being glib. They are probably all insured before touring and they have to undergo a physcial. The way he works onstage for 2 hours straight, I'm sure he's got a heart like a horse and he's already outlived his dad, who passed away at 56.
Michele
When Stevie jacked CAH up in the wings (she says) and told her she wouldn't let her marry Lindsey. Then the next day CAH rats her out to LB and he has some hours long "meeting" with Stevie over the event, to set her straight, dadgummit. Then, LB tells CAH upon his exhausted return to their room, that Stevie needed to speak to her at the venue that night. So, CAH is summoned by the Queen into her quarters and she then proceeds to show CAH how she was SO UPSET over the whole incident that she had welps or a rash all over her stomach. All was good. They were then friends. CAH was relieved. Stevie was happy. The world kept turning...
hehehe...stomach welps...yeah..."meeting"...yeah...that book is so entertaining. :lol:
Hmm...K. I think I remember that part. But I have a hunch she probably didn't consider Stevie a friend. The way she talked about her throughout the book really made Stevie out to be a complete dolt. Even a non-Stevie fan could read this and get the impression the woman was making no effort to be kind. Here and there she throws a few in so people don't think she's jealous or doesn't like Stevie, but I basically get that she felt threatened, thought she was weird, and somehow felt she was superior to her in terms of being Lindsey's S.O.
And I think LB's stomach issue was more like an ulcer or something, lol!
carrie721
03-23-2009, 09:11 PM
Sorry about the grammar...I meant "laying" down.
actually, you were correct ;)
CADreaming
03-23-2009, 09:13 PM
Hmm...K. I think I remember that part. But I have a hunch she probably didn't consider Stevie a friend. The way she talked about her throughout the book really made Stevie out to be a complete dolt. Even a non-Stevie fan could read this and get the impression the woman was making no effort to be kind. Here and there she throws a few in so people don't think she's jealous or doesn't like Stevie, but I basically get that she felt threatened, thought she was weird, and somehow felt she was superior to her in terms of being Lindsey's S.O.
And I think LB's stomach issue was more like an ulcer or something, lol!
I was just kidding about the stomach...;)
My take on CAH's "feelings" about Stevie is a little different though. I got the impression she wanted to be like her and secretly admired her, and yeah, was very jealous of her and felt really inferior to. I thought the jibes were really a cover up for her own insecurities, which imo, LB more than likely added to greatly - what with the "spectre of Stevie" and all ...
actually, you were correct ;)
You are so right...actually, I thought I was right but someone standing near me decided to critique my writing. Dummy. :laugh:
I was just kidding about the stomach...;)
My take on CAH's "feelings" about Stevie is a little different though. I got the impression she wanted to be like her and secretly admired her, and yeah, was very jealous of her and felt really inferior to. I thought the jibes were really a cover up for her own insecurities, which imo, LB more than likely added to greatly - what with the "spectre of Stevie" and all ...
Could be true. She just sounds a little crude in some of the ways she takes jabs at Stevie. But it could have been a mask for her insecurities. Or Stevie could have been that silly, I don't really know.:shrug:
I need to find the book...
carrie721
03-23-2009, 10:15 PM
You are so right...actually, I thought I was right but someone standing near me decided to critique my writing. Dummy. :laugh:
do me a favor and bop that person over the head with one of these, would you?
http://douggeivett.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/fowlers-modern-english-usage.jpg
:lol:
TrueFaith77
03-24-2009, 07:54 AM
When Stevie jacked CAH up in the wings (she says) and told her she wouldn't let her marry Lindsey. Then the next day CAH rats her out to LB and he has some hours long "meeting" with Stevie over the event, to set her straight, dadgummit. Then, LB tells CAH upon his exhausted return to their room, that Stevie needed to speak to her at the venue that night. So, CAH is summoned by the Queen into her quarters and she then proceeds to show CAH how she was SO UPSET over the whole incident that she had welps or a rash all over her stomach. All was good. They were then friends. CAH was relieved. Stevie was happy. The world kept turning...
hehehe...stomach welps...yeah..."meeting"...yeah...that book is so entertaining. :lol:
Just to be clear -- and I think to reiterate what CADreaming is insinuating. Part of the pleasure of this book is how deluded CAH is (even today). Lindsey and Stevie didn't have (or only have) an argument. Lindsey and Stevie were having sex.
David
03-24-2009, 09:59 AM
Stevie said Lindsey's father ailed and dwindled away for months before he died. Then his brother died at 45. They don't sound like a healthy bunch of folks. I've always been worried about Lindsey because of his immediate family history of heart disease. It's that genetic loading for diseases like heart disease, diabetes, or cancer that so often gets people -- no matter how much they exercise & eat well & do all the right things.
kak125
03-24-2009, 11:20 AM
I found what seems to be the entire book online if anybody is interested. I think its about 383 pages. I am reading it now.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ha223mrbCuQC&dq=fleetwood+mac&printsec=frontcover&source=bll&ots=lgOs9pEh45&sig=Zf-_Wndc3wWeC2c6Ch6GeeFpmbY&hl=en&ei=UQDJSczmEsKrtgeniPmpAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=16&ct=result#PPP1,M1
marinnette
03-24-2009, 11:46 AM
Just to be clear -- and I think to reiterate what CADreaming is insinuating. Part of the pleasure of this book is how deluded CAH is (even today). Lindsey and Stevie didn't have (or only have) an argument. Lindsey and Stevie were having sex.
:thumbsup:
Even CAH insinuates it when she says that she didn't ask him what happened in that bedroom because she really didn't want to know, that she only wanted things to be ok.
Plus...when he comes back CAH points out that Lindsey looked very "relaxed". When you argue with someone for HOURS you don't have "calm" written on your face...
michelej1
03-24-2009, 11:47 AM
I've always been worried about Lindsey because of his immediate family history of heart disease. It's that genetic loading for diseases like heart disease, diabetes, or cancer that so often gets people -- no matter how much they exercise & eat well & do all the right things.
But if you know it runs in the family, then its easier to keep it under control, because you get checked for it, take the tests even before you have symptoms and at a younger age than most of the population woudl, etc.. If you aren't in denial, of course.
Michele
But if you know it runs in the family, then its easier to keep it under control, because you get checked for it, take the tests even before you have symptoms and at a younger age than most of the population woudl, etc.. If you aren't in denial, of course.
Michele
Maybe Lindsey has become a health nut as of late. He looks like he eats nothing but sugarless Kashi Puffs and bean sprout sandwiches anyway.
But in that CAH book, which I finally found, there's a whole thing about Lindsey not really caring about his health. Like, he would avoid his epilepsy pills like the plague and Carol Ann would force feed them to him. Plus he continues to abuse drugs, alcohol, and all kinds of things he was told specifically NOT to do. Like even flying immediately after have a spinal tap. I mean...you have to do what you have to do, but I'm hoping he's done a 180 since then. I have to say, totally objective here, he has aged REALLY, really well. He's still got it. And you don't stay that way without some effort. So go LB! Keep swimming or eating vegetables or rocking out in your basement...whatever keep you in shape. :nod:
(I'm a HUGE workout advocate. I live to exercise. It's one of those variables I'm apt to abuse like some people shop or eat. Stress Reliever.)
Mondener
03-25-2009, 12:50 AM
well I read the book. and I think before talking about, read it first. I mean saying that Lindsey was not too upset is kind of interpretation, I mean they both met after the split up and I also think you can read it everywhere that the thing between them is still going on, and i mean the kind of chemistry between the two, that is going on til today. I find it quite interesting to read the book and I totally have the feeling that she´s trying to write it in all honesty about her point of view. great lecture, fun to read:woohoo:
Sorceress
03-25-2009, 03:09 AM
I found what seems to be the entire book online if anybody is interested. I think its about 383 pages. I am reading it now.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ha223mrbCuQC&dq=fleetwood+mac&printsec=frontcover&source=bll&ots=lgOs9pEh45&sig=Zf-_Wndc3wWeC2c6Ch6GeeFpmbY&hl=en&ei=UQDJSczmEsKrtgeniPmpAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=16&ct=result#PPP1,M1
Thank you! I've been curious, but not enough to actually buy the book.
DigYourGrave
03-25-2009, 03:14 AM
Do not be fooled by Google Books! :distress:
They will give you some pages and just when its getting to a good bit, they'll cut out like 50 pages and transport you to another incident. The opening is pretty complete up till like page 56 I think. But after that, the story is so fragmented, you'll get so frustrated with not reading chapters in their entirity that you'll just have to finish reading that bloody addictive book and will go out and buy it anyway.. or follow the Amazon link smack bang in the middle of the page you're reading! :laugh:
kak125
03-25-2009, 09:49 AM
Thank you! I've been curious, but not enough to actually buy the book.
you are so welcome. i was looking around the net for it but didnt want to buy it either.
kak125
03-25-2009, 09:51 AM
Do not be fooled by Google Books! :distress:
They will give you some pages and just when its getting to a good bit, they'll cut out like 50 pages and transport you to another incident. The opening is pretty complete up till like page 56 I think. But after that, the story is so fragmented, you'll get so frustrated with not reading chapters in their entirity that you'll just have to finish reading that bloody addictive book and will go out and buy it anyway.. or follow the Amazon link smack bang in the middle of the page you're reading! :laugh:
oh no that sucks! how many pages is the actual book? i really would hate to spend the money on this damm book, lol
michelej1
03-25-2009, 11:52 AM
oh no that sucks! how many pages is the actual book? i really would hate to spend the money on this damm book, lol
The book has 372 pages, but don't assume that those line up to the google pages. It seems like you are getting more pages than you really are online.
Michele
kak125
03-25-2009, 09:37 PM
The book has 372 pages, but don't assume that those line up to the google pages. It seems like you are getting more pages than you really are online.
Michele
i gotcha, i guess it would be too good to be true for them to post the entire book online. if i find it on ebay real cheap or something i might buy it but that wont be anytime soon, LOL! i guess the google will have to do for now.
David
03-26-2009, 11:49 AM
I just read part of the Introduction on Google Books, & I think the whole book must be phony baloney. Carol (or her ghostwriter) writes:
"All along the years, if tempers reached flash point during rehearsals, Mick would start to beat insistently & rhythmically on the bass drum, Lindsey would riff, & the band would move as one toward the mikes. ... Everyone in the drafty rehearsal hall would be chilled into silence, even Stevie's constantly giggling band of girl fans. And after the last shudder had died away, someone would ask, as the band members gave each other knowing smiles & got back on course, 'What was that all about?' I'd shrug & say, 'It's our anthem.' "
This is just a stupid rewrite of the exact same part in the cover story in Rolling Stone in 1980. Carol -- just like every other phony baloney plagiarizer & "adapter" who wrote a Fleetwood Mac book -- must be banking on the possibility that we readers never saw these articles back then, or at least don't & won't remember them.
goldustsongbird
03-26-2009, 02:13 PM
It's too bad the entire thing isn't on googlebooks. I want to read it but I'd hate to shell out the bucks. I don't want CAH thinking just one more person is interested in her ****ty book.
michelej1
03-26-2009, 03:50 PM
I just read part of the Introduction on Google Books, & I think the whole book must be phony baloney.
Well, I wish you'd read the whole book so you could point out some of the discrepancies that others have overlooked. We all know that some things couldn't have happened chronologically like she said -- which doesn't just mean that she got dates wrong, but also means that she got motives for certain conduct wrong in her descriptions. But you are best for seeing that kind of stuff.
Michele
CADreaming
03-26-2009, 06:58 PM
I just read part of the Introduction on Google Books, & I think the whole book must be phony baloney. Carol (or her ghostwriter) writes:
"All along the years, if tempers reached flash point during rehearsals, Mick would start to beat insistently & rhythmically on the bass drum, Lindsey would riff, & the band would move as one toward the mikes. ... Everyone in the drafty rehearsal hall would be chilled into silence, even Stevie's constantly giggling band of girl fans. And after the last shudder had died away, someone would ask, as the band members gave each other knowing smiles & got back on course, 'What was that all about?' I'd shrug & say, 'It's our anthem.' "
This is just a stupid rewrite of the exact same part in the cover story in Rolling Stone in 1980. Carol -- just like every other phony baloney plagiarizer & "adapter" who wrote a Fleetwood Mac book -- must be banking on the possibility that we readers never saw these articles back then, or at least don't & won't remember them.
Ha! That's too funny. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she didn't write it. Who's to say it wasn't the same situation as Mick's and the book was written based on old news clippings and the interview CAH gave while sloshed in some bar somewhere...
trackaghost
03-26-2009, 07:46 PM
This is just a stupid rewrite of the exact same part in the cover story in Rolling Stone in 1980. Carol -- just like every other phony baloney plagiarizer & "adapter" who wrote a Fleetwood Mac book -- must be banking on the possibility that we readers never saw these articles back then, or at least don't & won't remember them.
Well, yeah, she's no great writer for sure (if it was ghost written I'd be surprised given the quality of her writing) but having read the book I can say for certain the whole thing isn't a big rehash, as previous books about the Mac have been. I'm not saying it's all true or she hasn't ripped off parts, but in a lot of ways I thought she captured what it was like to be part of the Mac machine at the height of their fame (even Bob Welch himself in this thread has said that) better than I've read in previous biographies of the band and there are anecdotes in there I've personally never read anywhere else.
I know it's the hip thing to do on this board to criticise this book, and I'm not saying CAH is a nice person, an honest person or that she should have written the book in the first place, but I really enjoyed it. She definitely paints herself in a good light, as this wide-eyed innocent and uses romantic, flowery language, but even if she has been dishonest I would highly doubt everything she's written is a lie, because, like it or not, the woman was around Fleetwood Mac for years during their biggest successes. To deny she witnessed some debauched stuff is just naive. It's best taken with a pinch of salt but it's still a good read, and dare I say, better than Mick's.
fleetwoodtrick
03-26-2009, 10:24 PM
I'm reading the GB thing now. :/ Wow, what a bitch! She's all like 'It's our anthem!'... NO, IT'S NOT. IT'S FLEETWOOD MAC'S ANTHEM. YOU ARE NOT A PART OF THIS BAND.
Well, now that I got that little rant out... She keeps insulting Stevie. Just because Stevie is better than you in every single way humanely possible does not give you the right to bash her in a book. She acts like she won Lindsey over. Well where are ya now? Huh? In your mother's basement?! Lindsey's married now, and it's not to you. (Though it's not to Stevie though. :() We'll see if my opinion changes through out the book.
~Rhiya :/
I'm reading the GB thing now. :/ Wow, what a bitch! She's all like 'It's our anthem!'... NO, IT'S NOT. IT'S FLEETWOOD MAC'S ANTHEM. YOU ARE NOT A PART OF THIS BAND.
Well, now that I got that little rant out... She keeps insulting Stevie. Just because Stevie is better than you in every single way humanely possible does not give you the right to bash her in a book. She acts like she won Lindsey over. Well where are ya now? Huh? In your mother's basement?! Lindsey's married now, and it's not to you. (Though it's not to Stevie though. :() We'll see if my opinion changes through out the book.
~Rhiya :/
Does she seriously live in her mother's basement? She's got to be like, what, 55 at this point? That's sorta sad.:shocked: And I SO agree with you about her generalizations. She acts as though she actually wrote/sang/played in this band just because she was shacking with LB. Pitiful. It's like she was /is trying to live vicariously through their accomplishments and then, to top it off, slams Stevie. I admit she threw in 2-4 nice compliments like "pretty" and whatnot, but I ask you: how does that mean anything when you spend the rest of the time proclaiming her a dimwitted idiot?
I feel bad for Carol, but I have no respect for her. At some point she could have developed a backbone, some character, said f(*^ it and basically did her own thing, but she was way too passive and weak and I'm pretty sure Lindsey didn't have much respect for her other than her arm-candy-ness sadly. Not defending him or his behavior, but behind every strong man there needs to be a strong(er) woman, and Carol was just a lightweight wallflower to me. I know Stevie wasn't and I'm positive Kristen isn't. I can just see that.;)
David
03-27-2009, 12:17 PM
Well, I wish you'd read the whole book so you could point out some of the discrepancies that others have overlooked. We all know that some things couldn't have happened chronologically like she said -- which doesn't just mean that she got dates wrong, but also means that she got motives for certain conduct wrong in her descriptions.I'd love to read the whole book, but the kid that was going to send me his copy from my mail list never did so.
To me, that section I quoted in Carol's introduction is a ripoff of this section in Rolling Stone:
Then, without a word, Fleetwood takes up the slow, steady drumbeat to "Chain." One by one, without stopping to think about it, the rest of the band falls into place: Buckingham on guitar, then John McVie, then Christine, then Stevie, all with such a sense of purpose that suddenly everyone else in the room has stopped talking. "Chain," more than any other song, is the story of Fleetwood Mac. Their only five-way collaboration, finished long before the wounds of the celebrated breakups had a chance to heal. And watching them play it now, I realize how powerful it is. Never break the chain. For a while, I have been trying to summon the nerve to ask these people one question: what are you still doing here? The song ends, leaving a scary, charged silence in the hall. Right now, there seems to be no reason to ask.
Now here's Carol's impression:
"All along the years, if tempers reached flash point during rehearsals, Mick would start to beat insistently & rhythmically on the bass drum, Lindsey would riff, & the band would move as one toward the mikes. ... Everyone in the drafty rehearsal hall would be chilled into silence, even Stevie's constantly giggling band of girl fans. And after the last shudder had died away, someone would ask, as the band members gave each other knowing smiles & got back on course, 'What was that all about?' I'd shrug & say, 'It's our anthem.' "
Daisann McLane also mentions Stevie's giggly girlfriends, the "drafty rehearsal hall," & the tempers & edginess, but they're in different parts of the article. Carol has collated, or concatenated.
Sharon, you raise good points, too. I don't care about the quality of writing in these books because I don't expect good writing. I, like you, love the trash when it's published. I agree with you that Carol undoubtedly saw many interesting things with the band during those years. But when you get these flashbacks to old articles worded in similar ways & making the same thematic points, don't you balk? I want to hear about all those interesting things Carol saw; I don't want to read her rewrites of old stories that were already published by magazine & newspaper staffers. How often does she do this in her book? If I can get that person on my mail list to send me a copy, I can read it for myself.
michelej1
03-27-2009, 12:40 PM
The thing that I feel about it is that Carol really is not all that passive. It's just how she chooses to create herself for those pages.
The incident about Lindsey coming back from Stevie's room "relaxed" for instance . . . whatever Lindsey and Stevie did that night, the only reason that Carol told Lindsey was to have him rage against Stevie. She set Stevie up. If Stevie grabbed her, why not tell her off. I know Carol is capable of it. Why run to your "violent" boyfriend and tattle on her, hoping he'll somehow abuse Stevie?
My feeling is that Carol is only telling part of the story and if she ever gave us the other half, she'd probably come off as a lot less sweet and a lot more interesting.
Sharon, you raise good points, too. I don't care about the quality of writing in these books because I don't expect good writing. I, like you, love the trash when it's published. I agree with you that Carol undoubtedly saw many interesting things with the band during those years. But when you get these flashbacks to old articles worded in similar ways & making the same thematic points, don't you balk? I want to hear about all those interesting things Carol saw; I don't want to read her rewrites of old stories that were already published by magazine & newspaper staffers. How often does she do this in her book?
She doesn't do it often, only when she's trying to philosophize. When she's actually describing events (as opposed to ideas and concepts) the content is more original.
David, I'll send you the book. Just shoot me your address.
Michele
trackaghost
03-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Sharon, you raise good points, too. I don't care about the quality of writing in these books because I don't expect good writing. I, like you, love the trash when it's published. I agree with you that Carol undoubtedly saw many interesting things with the band during those years. But when you get these flashbacks to old articles worded in similar ways & making the same thematic points, don't you balk? I want to hear about all those interesting things Carol saw; I don't want to read her rewrites of old stories that were already published by magazine & newspaper staffers. How often does she do this in her book? If I can get that person on my mail list to send me a copy, I can read it for myself.
Well, there's other things in the book too that will make you balk, but like Michele says, it's only when she's attempting to be a "proper" writer that it sounds like the content may be less than original.
My feeling is that Carol is only telling part of the story and if she ever gave us the other half, she'd probably come off as a lot less sweet and a lot more interesting.
Oh absolutely! There's definitely a lot she's leaving out, you have to read between the lines, as Stevie says. Lindsey was supposedly a monster at times, and I'm sure he probably could be a difficult man to live with (whether he actually ever resorted to physical abuse I really don't know) but it can't have been much fun living with a drug addict either, and Carol Ann was a pretty much your cliché junkie by the end of it. There's one story in particular about the tapes she made with Sara Recor that Lindsey went mad at. To me it's pretty clear Lindsey found out that she cheated on him through those tapes but she makes out they were all girly innocence. But there's other things, like the fact that Mick cheated on Stevie and then left her for Sara Recor and how upset Stevie was about it, well I had never read that before CAH's book, and I have no doubt that's probably true.
michelej1
03-27-2009, 01:07 PM
But there's other things, like the fact that Mick cheated on Stevie and then left her for Sara Recor and how upset Stevie was about it, well I had never read that before CAH's book, and I have no doubt that's probably true.
The funniest part to me was when she said she told Stevie that John Wayne had their birthday too, which shot down Stevie's implication.
The second loudest laugh I got was when she said that Stevie was trying to tell Sara how to dress in a manner that would be less attractive to Mick.
Yes, as you say, Carol described many things we'd never read before. Years ago, Tom Moncrieff did mention how he and Stevie kiind of consoled each other when Mick and Sara got together, but I hadn't read any more about that until Storms.
Michele
kak125
03-27-2009, 01:17 PM
didnt mick mention it in his book about stevie finding out he cheated on her and she locked herself in the bathroom or something like that? i could get the book and look it up but am too lazy right now, LOL!
TrueFaith77
03-27-2009, 01:19 PM
There's one story in particular about the tapes she made with Sara Recor that Lindsey went mad at. To me it's pretty clear Lindsey found out that she cheated on him through those tapes but she makes out they were all girly innocence.
Yes, I agree she definately is STILL in denial about her role in this (supposedly) violent dynamic.
Which leads to different interpretations on the readers' parts. Example: the way I interpreted it was that he was upset by the fact that 1) she was recklessly recording inner-circle information and 2) she was probably high as a kite while doing it. I also think that explains the car-reverse-hair-pull (that she was so obviously getting f'd up with Christine all night). Even the first incident, which she claims she doesn't understand why he got upset, I always read as him being mad at her for laughing at Elvis freaking Costello. She deserved it that time. :sorry:
njova
03-27-2009, 03:09 PM
I read somewhere also that Carol Ann caught Lindsey cheating on her with Stevie and that she was going to originally include it in the book but didn't. I guess it would've detracted from the whole Lindsey was way over Stevie and so in love with her.
DigYourGrave
03-27-2009, 04:00 PM
This book really really needs to be taken with quite a large pinch of salt.
To be honest my alarm bells starting ringing when CAH found it necessary to get the reader on her side very early in the book. Let me explain: Describing Stevie (who for the majority of the readers of this book is, realistically, a heroin in her own right) as "an exquisite firebrand".. "she was a star.. her light was blinding">. etc was such a clever clever move by Harris. She knew that if she allowed the reader to think she was against Stevie from the get go and was jealous of her (which she probably was..), a lot of people would have been wearing their defenseive Stevie coloured glasses for the rest of the reading of the book. I almost felt like the main message at the start of the book was "Pity me, Lindsey and FM fans, I've had an awful life with a forced abortion, terrible husband, miserable lifestyle etc.. oh and I love Stevie aswell just so you're all aware. And I'm sweet and innocent.." Did anyone else think this, or was I the only one? :shrug:
It was interesting to read the parts about our "tortured genius" (she really really exhausted that image) like the price he paid for his finger-picking guitar playing, but I found myself losing interest when she started going on about petty, trivial, girlie incidents with Stevie and her girl-fans.
The book would have been way way waaaay more enjoyable if there was more grit, more pensive reflection and less re-hashing of what were probably very foggy and often very boring memories.
Still though.. I could not for the life of me put it down till I had done cover to cover! :laugh:
trackaghost
03-27-2009, 05:53 PM
^^ I think you've summed the book up very well actually. You have to take it with a pinch of salt, but then I think you can say that about a lot of autobiographies: people are rarely objective about their own lives, of course she is going to view herself as the victim and Stevie as the unreasonable one, especially someone as narcissistic as CAH. (And even Stevie is guilty of this).
As I say, there's lots you can criticise the book for (and I've found a lot of people who dismiss it outright haven't even read it), but like you I found it hard to put down. It's an enjoyable, guilty read.
Edit: btw this is Bob Welch's post from earlier in this thread where he says "I was around Carol Harris a lot. Let me say that , for me, everything she portrays rings true."
http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showpost.php?p=705456&postcount=250
TrueFaith77
03-27-2009, 08:28 PM
I read somewhere also that Carol Ann caught Lindsey cheating on her with Stevie and that she was going to originally include it in the book but didn't. I guess it would've detracted from the whole Lindsey was way over Stevie and so in love with her.
If she left THAT out... then there was no point to the book at all.
whitewingdove73
03-31-2009, 10:54 PM
I wonder what carol Ann looked like in actual person so I tried looking her up on youtube and found nothing. I would really like to see the backstage stuff from Rumours. There are a few clips on yiutube but again no Carol Ann.
I wonder what carol Ann looked like in actual person so I tried looking her up on youtube and found nothing. I would really like to see the backstage stuff from Rumours. There are a few clips on yiutube but again no Carol Ann.
Gee, I have the DVD. I would so post some screen caps but it's a bit of a process...she was blonde, waif-like, and looked very stoned out. She stays by Lindsey's side throughout all the parts she is in and, from what I could decipher, she speaks in a very quiet little voice. That's about all I can remember- aside from Lindsey making out with her/dry-humping her against a wall. All quite demonstratively in front of the camera.:shrug:
whitewingdove73
03-31-2009, 11:28 PM
Gee, I have the DVD. I would so post some screen caps but it's a bit of a process...she was blonde, waif-like, and looked very stoned out. She stays by Lindsey's side throughout all the parts she is in and, from what I could decipher, she speaks in a very quiet little voice. That's about all I can remember- aside from Lindsey making out with her/dry-humping her against a wall. All quite demonstratively in front of the camera.:shrug:
There's actually a DVD of the Rumours tour? Didn't even know that. Unofficial I'm guessing :D
michelej1
03-31-2009, 11:37 PM
You can see her a little on the "It was I" video. Of course, WB has probably pulled that off of Youtube.
Michele
You can see her a little on the "It was I" video. Of course, WB has probably pulled that off of Youtube.
Michele
The It Was I video is one of the funniest things I have ever seen in my life. Was he serious when he did that? How did he stand there, hand-on-hips, switching, with a straight face?
He needs to have another Q & A because I think I need to ask WTF he was thinking when he created this hot mess. There isn't anything wrong with the concept of doing a few light moves, but the outfit, the hair, the make-up...at some point did any of the people involved actually provide some assistance? I mean, honestly.
I have to admit I LOVE the song!!
strandinthewind
04-01-2009, 10:51 AM
The ironic thing was that at La Nicks' book signing last night, a person bought and read "storms" to pass the time - so, La Nicks helped sales :laugh:
michelej1
04-01-2009, 01:28 PM
The It Was I video is one of the funniest things I have ever seen in my life. Was he serious when he did that? How did he stand there, hand-on-hips, switching, with a straight face?
He needs to have another Q & A because I think I need to ask WTF he was thinking when he created this hot mess. There isn't anything wrong with the concept of doing a few light moves, but the outfit, the hair, the make-up...at some point did any of the people involved actually provide some assistance? I mean, honestly.
I have to admit I LOVE the song!!
On a less extreme level, in the Big Love video when he goes to clinch that woman, it doesn't look, um, it doesn't look good. I was wondering if there was a director around to provide assistance then.
Michele
On a less extreme level, in the Big Love video when he goes to clinch that woman, it doesn't look, um, it doesn't look good. I was wondering if there was a director around to provide assistance then.
Michele
Wow, I'll have to watch that again. Was he being aggressive? I recall that the woman was a brunette and I thought they looked very cute together. I also thought this video was pretty good, and Lindsey looked good (as in yum) in it. This and Seven Wonders vid were good times for him looks-wise. In the latter, he looks as though he may have lifted a weight or two for a few days. There's some muscle there. For him anyway.
I can not, for the life of me, get myself to show other people the Go Insane video and convince them of how brilliant he is. I like it and get it, but none of my friends & associates would probably have a clue other than think he was a pathetic 80s star.
michelej1
04-01-2009, 08:07 PM
Wow, I'll have to watch that again. Was he being aggressive? I recall that the woman was a brunette and I thought they looked very cute together. I also thought this video was pretty good, and Lindsey looked good (as in yum) in it. This and Seven Wonders vid were good times for him looks-wise. In the latter, he looks as though he may have lifted a weight or two for a few days. There's some muscle there. For him anyway.
He wasn't being aggressive. IMO, he was moving as if he wasn't very familiar with females.
But in general, I love the video. When he whips his head around to look at the camera at the very end, I can still get chills. His looks in the Seven Wonders video are delicious. I always say that I don't know how anyone could make due with just ruffling his hair like Stevie did. Because . . .
I have never seen him look that good.
I love the Go Insane video. Wrong and Holiday Road are favorites too.
Michele
He wasn't being aggressive. IMO, he was moving as if he wasn't very familiar with females.
But in general, I love the video. When he whips his head around to look at the camera at the very end, I can still get chills. His looks in the Seven Wonders video are delicious. I always say that I don't know how anyone could make due with just ruffling his hair like Stevie did. Because . . .
I have never seen him look that good.
I love the Go Insane video. Wrong and Holiday Road are favorites too.
Michele
Countdown baby!! I love Holiday Road in that suit and the eyes...I'm mad about men with dark hair and light eyes and the contrast is so clear there...
Uh, that's a little disturbing re: the Big Love vid...I hope it had more to do with him not feeling comfortable than the fact the girl was a brunette and he was thinkin' "I usually save the real action for the golden-locks."
He's just a really amazing-looking man. In fact, shallow as this sounds, I get perturbed to think that along with LB not getting his dues for so long as a guitarist (producer/arranger/songwriter, etc.) I kinda feel he hasn't gotten his dues in terms of his physical appeal...I'm sure there's been many thousand mundane polls in several idiot music-related editorials that he hasn't been a part of. Just goes to show the best things are always kept secret.;) Good for you, Kristen!:nod:
michelej1
04-01-2009, 10:31 PM
Countdown baby!! I love Holiday Road in that suit and the eyes...I'm mad about men with dark hair and light eyes and the contrast is so clear there...
I always thought that Lindsey's eyes were so striking because his hair was so dark. I agree with you about the contrast. But then when he did those People pictures with Lee Lee, I thought her eyes looked awfully nice too. I wouldn't think they would stand out against her hair like they did.
Michele
michelej1
04-01-2009, 11:23 PM
Uh, that's a little disturbing re: the Big Love vid...I hope it had more to do with him not feeling comfortable than the fact the girl was a brunette and he was thinkin' "I usually save the real action for the golden-locks."
I was thinking that the woman in the Slow Dancing video has brown hair and I can't fault his action there as he backs her against the wall :nod:.
Actually, though he was probably with Stevie during darker days. She said when people saw Fritz and noticed her above all the men in the band that they said they wanted the group that had the singer with "mousy brown" hair.
Michele
Actually, though he was probably with Stevie during darker days. She said when people saw Fritz and noticed her above all the men in the band that they said they wanted the group that had the singer with "mousy brown" hair.
Michele
Interesting. So Stevie isn't a natural blonde. I'm wondering if that was her decision or if Lindsey was as controlling then as he apparently still is (what with the SYW clothing demands) and insisted that if she wanted him to have anything to do with her she'd better get a dye job- immediately.:lol:
No, but seriously...I love the People pic as well. Leelee is so totally Lindsey's "gorgeous" child. Every family has one that really sticks out, and I have to say she's it.
CADreaming
04-02-2009, 06:48 AM
I was thinking that the woman in the Slow Dancing video has brown hair and I can't fault his action there as he backs her against the wall :nod:.
Actually, though he was probably with Stevie during darker days. She said when people saw Fritz and noticed her above all the men in the band that they said they wanted the group that had the singer with "mousy brown" hair.
Michele
I thought she always said the singer with the "browny-blonde hair"...
Kayt1234
04-02-2009, 08:02 AM
Even though she says she had "mousy brown hair", it always appeared to me that she had dirty blonde hair. It definately looked lighter when she was younger and got darker as she aged (as it usually does...I know it did with mine!). She probably just began to lighten it to get rid of that "mousy-ness" and began to go lighter...which works for her because it's the color she had when she was younger!
David
04-02-2009, 12:28 PM
I'm reading this book now. My favorite parts thus far are the parts in which Carol speaks believably about stuff that she saw. But when her prose gets all purply, describing Lindsey or Stevie or the members of Fleetwood Mac as if they were mythic figures from ancient days, I don't believe a word she says in spirit.
michelej1
04-02-2009, 12:34 PM
Even though she says she had "mousy brown hair", it always appeared to me that she had dirty blonde hair. It definately looked lighter when she was younger and got darker as she aged (as it usually does...I know it did with mine!). She probably just began to lighten it to get rid of that "mousy-ness" and began to go lighter...which works for her because it's the color she had when she was younger!
To me, it looks darker in her school girl pictures after she's over 5, but then gets lighter as she gets older. I just figured that, like most teenaged girls whose parents let them do so, she started experimenting with hair color around that time.
Michele
whitewingdove73
04-02-2009, 08:13 PM
You can see her a little on the "It was I" video. Of course, WB has probably pulled that off of Youtube.
Michele
Nope, not on youtube. :distress:
To me, it looks darker in her school girl pictures after she's over 5, but then gets lighter as she gets older. I just figured that, like most teenaged girls whose parents let them do so, she started experimenting with hair color around that time.
Michele
It's very likely she started coloring her hair then. The blonde suits her, but given the fact that her eyes are dark and her eyebrows aren't light she could probably get away with a darker look as well.
What I always found interesting was Lindsey as a little boy. First of all, he was a doll, which is a given of course, but I definitely see a great deal of his cuteness in his little kid's pics. But his hair was, like, blonde. Really light blonde and then it eventually turned really dark brown. I always think it's strange how those things work out.
My hair color is about the same as LB's prior to turning gray, yet I was very peachy-skin/light brown as a child. It's interesting to see such a leap...I think Elizabeth Taylor may have been a blonde baby as well, though.
michelej1
04-02-2009, 09:13 PM
I see what CADreaming means. In the Rock Family tree interview Stevie says,
People would call up after they saw us a couple of times and say: "Can we book that band with that little browny/blonde haired girl?" And that would just make them intensely furious and they would take it out on me. So, it was a definite double standard, you know. They didn't treat me very well. But they did pay me the same amount of money that they got, because otherwise I would've quit.
Here are a couple of the darker pictures I was talking about.
Michele
CADreaming
04-02-2009, 09:43 PM
I see what CADreaming means. In the Rock Family tree interview Stevie says,
Here are a couple of the darker pictures I was talking about.
Michele
Thanks Michele. I agree her hair looked more brown when she was young, although the toddler one it's pretty light. If I recall correctly, I have read a quote where she admitted to trying the dye out as a teenager. I bet her hair is naturally very dark. Remember back in the day she talked about coming off the road and dying her hair brown so she could go antiquing on the weekends? I bet all she really has to do is lay off the peroxide. It reminds me of the scene in DR where she is standing in front of LB discussing the WB execs coming over to listen to their stuff and she's saying they had never met them before and sort of saunters into the kitchen - you can get a great glimpse of the hair needing the dye job there. It's defintely more "browny" than it is "blonde"...
Eh...my hair was blonde and then "browny blonde" until I was 6 and then it turned brown fully by the time I was 9 or 10.
michelej1
04-02-2009, 10:18 PM
I just saw my tape of Jimmy Fallon where's she's talking about Lindsey's hair and says she was heartbroken when he cut it. It reminded me of how Carol said that both Christine and Stevie gave her dirty looks about Lindsey's new appearance.
I wonder if the person who offered that video question is a Ledgie. We do have a Laurie here.
Michele
CADreaming
04-02-2009, 10:35 PM
I just saw my tape of Jimmy Fallon where's she's talking about Lindsey's hair and says she was heartbroken when he cut it. It reminded me of how Carol said that both Christine and Stevie gave her dirty looks about Lindsey's new appearance.
I wonder if the person who offered that video question is a Ledgie. We do have a Laurie here.
Michele
I loved that question. Stevie almost made herself swoon from memory... :D
To the person who wanted to see Carol Ann depicted on film...Here you go! :)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5673087-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5669447.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5677908-2.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5668300-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5653513-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5650418-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5646692-1.png
When I skimmed through the video I couldn't get over how handsome Lindsey was. He's really a gorgeous looking dude, no doubt.
michelej1
04-02-2009, 10:59 PM
I loved that question. Stevie almost made herself swoon from memory... :D
The sad thing is, by the time Jimmy reminded her that Lindsey still looked ok she just said, yeah he's still "totally handsome" but her tone, by comparison, wasn't all that impressed with the 59 year old LB.
I was just looking at Nico's post and that flea-ridden hair look doesn't do anything for me. But once he cut his hair, I'm like: Hello, Sailor!
Michele
I was just looking at Nico's post and that flea-ridden hair look doesn't do anything for me. But once he cut his hair, I'm like: Hello, Sailor!
Michele
I totally, totally agree. Looking over these pics and seeing him in action with the fro I do see the beauty and appeal. He was a bit wilder and very sexy. But I am SUCH a short-hair/clean-chaven LB girl. I LOVE his Tusk look, and I love his OotC look, and I love the way he's looked from SYW to now...shoot, he looks great in any incarnation (should we make a poll and see what the consensus is), but he is just so much more of everything without all that hair in his face. He's totally gorgeous.
And 59 year-old Lindsey is fierce. I love him. He is such a DILF. ;)
whitewingdove73
04-02-2009, 11:36 PM
To the person who wanted to see Carol Ann depicted on film...Here you go! :)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5673087-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5669447.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5677908-2.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5668300-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5653513-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5650418-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5646692-1.png
When I skimmed through the video I couldn't get over how handsome Lindsey was. He's really a gorgeous looking dude, no doubt.
Thank you so much for making these caps for me. I never seen any of these, then again I never seen the actual clip. I hope someday it will end up on youtube.
Thanks once again.:xoxo:
She looked pretty but that picture of her kissing Lindsay kinda pisses me off. Poor Stevie. To have to tour with your ex and his new girlfriend....that must have broken her heart. To think at 61 she still has strong feelings for that man, imagine what it was like back then?
And Lindsay was a gorgeous creatures. That voice....eyes.....face... He kinda had the same sex appeal Jim Morrison had back in 68' and 69'.
My goodness Stevie. :D
whitewingdove73
04-02-2009, 11:52 PM
someone just PMed me this! Clip with Carol Ann and Lindsay. I guess it's from the same thing Nico got his caps from?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv6FSGpZj2o
someone just PMed me this! Clip with Carol Ann and Lindsay. I guess it's from the same thing Nico got his caps from?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv6FSGpZj2o
Yeah, that is so it. :)
Whitewing, I am actually a girl. ;) But it's fine because it's not like a picture of a man as my avatar would make that an obvious revelation.
Since we're discussing Lindsey's hotness, here's a few screen caps I made of him...for anyone interested:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5654060.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5679874.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5678197.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5678335.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5652564.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5658123-1.png
TrueFaith77
04-03-2009, 08:41 AM
I don't mean to be daft. But why do some people spell it "Lindsey" and some people spell it "Lindsay"?
michelej1
04-03-2009, 11:56 AM
I don't mean to be daft. But why do some people spell it "Lindsey" and some people spell it "Lindsay"?
Why didn't his mother spell it Lindsay? Was she so damaged by "Rutheda" that she just thought she'd mess him up too?
Michele
DigYourGrave
04-03-2009, 12:25 PM
To the person who wanted to see Carol Ann depicted on film...Here you go! :)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5673087-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5669447.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5677908-2.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5668300-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5653513-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5650418-1.png
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y135/lalalives/vlcsnap-5646692-1.png
When I skimmed through the video I couldn't get over how handsome Lindsey was. He's really a gorgeous looking dude, no doubt.
I dont think Ive seen this video, got a link?
Ive seen the other one, where he's looking straight at the camera complaining about how he HATES playing..:laugh:
David
04-04-2009, 08:46 AM
She looked pretty but that picture of her kissing Lindsay kinda pisses me off. Poor Stevie. To have to tour with your ex and his new girlfriend....that must have broken her heart.Was poor Stevie in a situation that was any different from Lindsey or Chris or John or even Mick? They were all spending time with their exes & their "replacements."
Kayt1234
04-04-2009, 09:22 AM
Thanks for posting those screen caps. I hadn't watched the Rumours Japan tapes in awhile so it was nice to see those again. What struck me right away was the fact that Carol Ann was so clingy with Lindsey. I mean, it kind of seemed like it was something he either wanted or needed (I think it was more of a need thing, to be honest) but still! Now, to be fair...if I were in a situation where I was thrown in with a wild band, with a probably very angry ex girlfriend and all the craziness that we know was going on, I probably would have stuck close to my boyfriend who probably was her one constant. THat being said, she's always hanging off of him and just making out with him in front of everyone. It seemed PAINFULLY obvious that there were many times Lindsey would do that just to try to make Stevie jealous. She seemed to be surrounded by her girlfriends (especially Robin) too much to APPEAR to care.
macpai
04-16-2009, 12:27 AM
OK, so I did get through the book.
And my opinion is not so much changed, but I'm happy that the romance novel portion stopped not long after where I originally stopped reading.
But still this is a story half told, kinda like Pattie Boyd's book. I have no doubt that there is truth in a great deal of the stories of the insanity behind the scenes. But to paraphrase the dearly departed Paul Harvey, I'd sort of like to know "the rest of the story."
She makes herself come off so simple, but yet there's a drama queen element to it that doesn't jive with the other part. Strange how her family is absent for almost the entire book. I don't know, I guess she just went to live in this other world because she wanted to.
And it also proves the old adage, if you look nice, you can have whatever you want in life. I can't imagine going from music production to modeling to costume design. You have to have "ins" for this kind of thing. And boy did she ever.
michelej1
04-17-2009, 09:16 PM
Ah, David:
After that mock plaintive note you struck above, come down here and share your thoughts.
You were interested in tours. Did you find any new information that you didn't have before? Were you able to fill in any gaps about dates, places or songs?
You were surprised that she and Sara were such good friends. Anything else take you aback, catch you off guard, make you reconsider hard fought beliefs and hard thought conclusions you've held for 25 years?
Did it reaffirm your belief in cycles? Do you think Lindsey stole that line from Carol?
My theory about the Save Me gaff is that Carol didn't even work on any Mac productions. They probably just told her she could say she did to get her resume started. I just don't know how you could forget the name of the first video in your portfolio -- especially forget it and replace it with one made after your affiliation with the band. I mean, she was much less familiar with Save Me and I don't see how that would pop out of her head and onto the page by mistake. It might be easy to mix up Walk a Thin Line and Save Me a Place, but Little Lies and Save Me? Not so much. Seriously, since Little Lies is a more popular song, how could you think you worked on Save Me when you actually worked on Little Lies?
Michele
David
04-17-2009, 11:34 PM
Ah, David:
After that mock plaintive note you struck above, come down here and share your thoughts.
You were interested in tours. Did you find any new information that you didn't have before? Were you able to fill in any gaps about dates, places or songs?I don't think I learned anything new that was reliable. She reran the ****up from Mick Fleetwood's book about the seizure in the shower in Philadelphia. Mick places it TWICE: in 1977 and again in 1980. Carol places it once (at least she fixed THAT problem): in 1977.
It took place in 1978.
That's all doubly ironic because in the text she takes the position (& assumes the reader does too) that it was heartless of the band to put a gig that day ahead of something as gravely important as Lindsey's seizure -- but she can't even remember which year it happened!
Still, it was fun to read more about the shenanigans backstage, even if I had to continually rewrite them for believability & sense in my mind (see my comments below). However, the author got on my nerves by constantly swerving abruptly away from the backstage & touring matter & launching yet again into another self-confessional about how much she loved & was loved. I'd have loved her a lot more if she had made Fleetwood Mac the true center of the book instead of Fleetwood Mac's effect on her. Her presumptuousness is off-putting: Why should any of us care about her? The very act of writing the book -- soliciting our attention -- becomes an act of arrogance. It's the notion that thousands of us Macheads don't care as much about Fleetwood Mac as we do about Fleetwood Mac strangely filtered through Carol's sensibilities, & the notion that we all, ultimately, care more about what happened to her than about them. I see even her strange decision to title the book "Storms" emblematic of this arrogance.
You were surprised that she and Sara were such good friends. Anything else take you aback, catch you off guard, make you reconsider hard fought beliefs and hard thought conclusions you've held for 25 years?Nothing I can think of because I -- Michele, truthfully -- just didn't believe a thing I was reading. The whole struck me as almost entirely concocted. Mythmaking, & pretty crummy mythmaking, at that (the campy, exaggerated dialog among band members & their entourage was what? meant to be cutesy?).
I'm not even really talking here about bare facts. I'm talking about the atmosphere she creates, the descriptions of people's emotions, their doubletakes, their moods, etc. I didn't believe any of it. Everything seems not just exaggerated but grossly distorted. This isn't the way people talk to one another or interact with one another, in any universe. Characters (I don't know what else to call them) constantly roll their eyes at other people, people take an interest in other people's personal lives that they couldn't possibly have actually felt at the time -- normal voyeurism & vicarious thrill are caricatured. Everyone seems pathological, even the limousine drivers.
My theory about the Save Me gaff is that Carol didn't even work on any Mac productions. They probably just told her she could say she did to get her resume started. I just don't know how you could forget the name of the first video in your portfolio -- especially forget it and replace it with one made after your affiliation with the band. I mean, she was much less familiar with Save Me and I don't see how that would pop out of her head and onto the page by mistake. It might be easy to mix up Walk a Thin Line and Save Me a Place, but Little Lies and Save Me? Not so much. Seriously, since Little Lies is a more popular song, how could you think you worked on Save Me when you actually worked on Little Lies?Hard to figure that one out, but a lifetime spent in publishing makes me think it possible it's the error of a proofreader or someone besides Carol.
Let's keep going & I'll remember more of my reactions.
macpai
04-18-2009, 12:30 AM
I'm not even really talking here about bare facts. I'm talking about the atmosphere she creates, the descriptions of people's emotions, their doubletakes, their moods, etc. I didn't believe any of it. Everything seems not just exaggerated but grossly distorted. This isn't the way people talk to one another or interact with one another, in any universe. Characters (I don't know what else to call them) constantly roll their eyes at other people, people take an interest in other people's personal lives that they couldn't possibly have actually felt at the time -- normal voyeurism & vicarious thrill are caricatured. Everyone seems pathological, even the limousine drivers.
This was exactly my take on it. I am assuming there are kernels of truth in there somewhere, but...
I don't have that kind of clarity on things that happened 10 years ago in my own life, so I can't imagine how someone stoned would be that much better than me.
All of a sudden I was reminded of Jurassic Park and the explanation for how they made the dinosaurs. They couldn't figure out what some DNA was, so they concocted some DNA via frogs and stuck that in there. She kind of concocted the DNA of her story.
I'm not sure what to believe. And I guess that ultimately shields me from what should have been the more frightening aspects of her tale.
michelej1
04-18-2009, 01:19 PM
I don't have that kind of clarity on things that happened 10 years ago in my own life, so I can't imagine how someone stoned would be that much better than me.
Well, she says she kept audio journals that helped her refresh her memory. Which reminds me, in another thread I said I think that one tape that's been circulated with Beverly and Sara talking with another woman named Kell -- I now think that's probably Carol Ann, not "Kell." They were calling her Carol and we just didn't know it at the time. I haven't heard that Conversations tape in a long while, but I'd like to hear it again and see if the pieces fit.
David,
As far as the dramatic language goes, the only thing I'd give her leeway on is that Stevie and Lindsey do talk in crazy extremes sometimes. So, I believe they would say some pretty unnatural, overblown sounding things.
But the moment when the book started off with her and her six (?) sisters sitting curled up around the room reading, I knew I was in for a ride.
Now, what do you think about the shooting of the Rolling Stone bed cover? To me, that's not only odd because no one else describes it taking place that way and in that place (Carol's home), not even Annie, who would be an objective source. But I think it's a calculated lie, in that it seems designed to undermine what Lindsey and Stevie have said more recently about holding each other (Stevie says for a couple of hours) during that shoot. Carol seems to have written in a way deliberately designed to undermine that story.
You know, I was watching a documentary on the Amityville Horror phenomenon and one guy pointed out a passage in the story where the priest (I believe) was driving away from the haunted house and the hood of his car flew up and blocked his vision. The critic pointed out that that couldn't have happened in that car because the hood is reversed on the model and could not fly up and block the windshield. So, then in the second edition of the book, they put the priest in another car. It made me laugh. Carol once talked about a second edition of her book coming out and I would have been interested in seeing what she would have changed. But it was never published.
Michele
michelej1
04-18-2009, 01:27 PM
I don't think I learned anything new that was reliable. She reran the ****up from Mick Fleetwood's book about the seizure in the shower in Philadelphia. Mick places it TWICE: in 1977 and again in 1980. Carol places it once (at least she fixed THAT problem): in 1977.
It took place in 1978.
That one video that circulates where Stevie comes up to the mic at the end and says "Lindsey is one strong man" is right after the seizure, correct? I'd always assumed it was anyway, no matter how it was labeled. Stevie rubs his back and Christine takes his guitar away.
Michele
Regina
04-18-2009, 01:44 PM
I'm not a fan of the book. Actually, when she talked about Lindsey getting sick at the hotel and her decision to run through the streets of Washington, DC (I think) with bare feet, bleeding all over the place, instead of staying in the hotel and...oh, picking up the phone and calling an ambulance, l pretty much labeled her an airhead and a drama queen that almost puts the rest of FM to shame.
The Rolling Stone cover shoot thing is another thing that almost made me throw the book against the wall. Unless everyone else was lying--including Annie Liebowitz--Carol Ann's memory is quite faulty.
From Rolling Stone:
I have a feeling the band had all gone through rehab or something," says Leibovitz, "and I brought out huge amounts of drugs, thinking that's what they wanted. They were not so happy about it, but everyone consumed everything, so we were all out to lunch. I brought the mattress and sheets."
"I don't remember the drugs," says Stevie Nicks. "I thought it was a case of champagne. There were two ex-couples in the band. When Annie said she wanted us to lie down together on a big bed, it was like, 'Hmm, hope you have a backup idea.' But she said, "No, you're going to look great, this will be fun, have a glass of champagne.' I said, 'OK, but I can't curl up next to Mick for the next three hours while Annie is suspended over us on a platform."
"Christine really didn't want to be next to John, because they were just divorced," Nicks adds. "So he was the odd man out, reading the magazine. Afterwards, Lindsey and I got to talking about how amazing it was that not so long ago I was a waitress and he didn't have a job, and now we were on the cover of Rolling Stone with this huge record. And we lay there for two hours talking and making out. Finally, Annie had to tell us to leave, because she had rented the room for only so long. But in one afternoon she put Lindsey and me back together and also planted the seed for Mick and me, which happened a year later. You want to know the power of Annie Leibovitz, there you go."
As for Buckingham, he remembers the photo session a little differently. "For Stevie and me, the wounds and animosities were still very fresh," he says. "So the idea for the photo wasn't all that funny. We had to compartmentalize our feelings to keep the band functional, and at the end of the session, we had this moment of not being able to avoid all that had been lost. We embraced for about fifteen minutes, and Mick finally came over and said that people were starting to get uncomfortable. I don't know how healthy all this display of our personal life was, but that's showbiz."
Granted, time-wise there is a difference, but...the story is similar enough and completely different than the one CAH told.
And, yeah, I'm taking into consideration the fact that I totally don't want parts of it to be true.
Street_Dreamer
04-18-2009, 03:37 PM
Pow! The difference between a song and a (supposed) autobiography or whatever you want to call this book, is that you don't have to tell the truth in a song. As I've said before with this book, people need to consider the source of the material. She has a lot more to gain than she has to lose writing this book. The only reputation/credibility she has that anyone truly knows about is her relationship with Lindsey and the association with Fleetwood Mac that came with it. I haven't read and won't read the book, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that everything she says is untruthful, but there are no doubts in my mind that there are cases where she stretches out the truth or just tells flat out lies.
Of course people would ask why Lindsey wouldn't sue her for defamation of his character if there are untruths in the book. Why would he want to get himself involved in a legal battle at this point in his life? The man has a beautiful family, is probably the happiest he's ever been in his life and let's face it, obviously this book has done little if nothing to besmirtch the public image that he has. Once again, consider the source. It's the number one reason why I have not and will never read a word of her book.
Matt
David
04-19-2009, 09:50 PM
Well, she says she kept audio journals that helped her refresh her memory.I think she's a liar. I don't think she used old tapes as refreshers. I think she used old newspaper clippings & Mick's book as refreshers.
As far as the dramatic language goes, the only thing I'd give her leeway on is that Stevie and Lindsey do talk in crazy extremes sometimes. So, I believe they would say some pretty unnatural, overblown sounding things.Carol wrote a Victorian melodrama, & Lindsey is the wicked villain with devilish looks, a Jack the Ripper mustache, one eyebrow arched, an evil red glow across part of his face (the other part is always in shadow).
Open any page at random. "Malevolent glances" are always being cast at this person or that person; "storm clouds" are always hanging over everything (inside people's homes!); angry lovers don't talk -- they "snarl," etc. etc.
She keeps making fun of the "soap opera" that the band's lives have become, but nothing in Fleetwood Mac history is as soapy as this book.
Now, what do you think about the shooting of the Rolling Stone bed cover? To me, that's not only odd because no one else describes it taking place that way and in that place (Carol's home), not even Annie, who would be an objective source. But I think it's a calculated lie, in that it seems designed to undermine what Lindsey and Stevie have said more recently about holding each other (Stevie says for a couple of hours) during that shoot. Carol seems to have written in a way deliberately designed to undermine that story.I'm with you. But it's surprisingly brief & surprisingly free of high drama. I agree that it's very odd that Carol makes absolutely no mention of ex-lovers hanging out together after everyone else leaves the room or goes home or whatever they did.
My notion is that Carol is seriously ill, but not in the way she might think. Either she's lying to a pathological degree or she's emotionally crippled to a pathological degree. Somebody is always scratching her arms, scratching her face, strangling her, punching her in the face, punching her in the back, pulling her hair, dragging her, or slapping her. She portrays herself as a pincushion. Worse, she appears to be getting off on this sadomasochistic portrait. No matter who is physically or verbally abusing her, she stands there, weeping like a sob sister, unable to speak or to move (how many people, when their arm is being twisted, don't use their free arm to push or elbow?). She is frozen in place, time after time, wondering what did I ever do to make them so angry with me? I love them and I know they love me because they said so, and . . .
Does anyone believe this dreck?
"I twisted myself out of his grasp & stumbled backward, speechless with shock" (speechless, mind you, even if it's the twenty-fifth time her romantic lover has smacked her). She is concocting a weirdly idealized "Carol Harris" in her febrile brain, a character who is as guileless and wide-eyed as Cinderella. She even says numerous times, "My life had become a fairy tale." My bull**** meter hit the red back around page 36.
There are descriptions of things here -- we've talked about this already -- that wouldn't be here at all if they hadn't already been described, in virtually identical ways, in Mick's book. Examples: the New Zealand business on the Tusk tour, the show at the Munich Olympic Horse Riding Stadium, the various rehearsals, the photo shoots, the album sessions, the radio broadcast of "Tusk" before release, etc.
Virtually every other page, we read something like, "I could see the rage in his eyes and I knew that I was helpless." This is a romance novel, for chrissake -- a bodice-ripper. It's cheap, it's corrupt, it's hypocritical, & it's fake. The only Polaroids in the whole book that aren't mysteriously blurry are those of Carol herself, professionally taken as part of her modeling. What the great Mary McCarthy once said about Lillian Hellman is true here: Every word in this book is a lie -- even "a" and "the."
CADreaming
04-19-2009, 09:58 PM
I think she's a liar. I don't think she used old tapes as refreshers. I think she used old newspaper clippings & Mick's book as refreshers.
Carol wrote a Victorian melodrama, & Lindsey is the wicked villain with devilish looks, a Jack the Ripper mustache, one eyebrow arched, an evil red glow across part of his face (the other part is always in shadow).
Open any page at random. "Malevolent glances" are always being cast at this person or that person; "storm clouds" are always hanging over everything (inside people's homes!); angry lovers don't talk -- they "snarl," etc. etc.
She keeps making fun of the "soap opera" that the band's lives have become, but nothing in Fleetwood Mac history is as soapy as this book.
I'm with you. But it's surprisingly brief & surprisingly free of high drama. I agree that it's very odd that Carol makes absolutely no mention of ex-lovers hanging out together after everyone else leaves the room or goes home or whatever they did.
My notion is that Carol is seriously ill, but not in the way she might think. Either she's lying to a pathological degree or she's emotionally crippled to a pathological degree. Somebody is always scratching her arms, scratching her face, strangling her, punching her in the face, punching her in the back, pulling her hair, dragging her, or slapping her. She portrays herself as a pincushion. Worse, she appears to be getting off on this sadomasochistic portrait. No matter who is physically or verbally abusing her, she stands there, weeping like a sob sister, unable to speak or to move (how many people, when their arm is being twisted, don't use their free arm to push or elbow?). She is frozen in place, time after time, wondering what did I ever do to make them so angry with me? I love them and I know they love me because they said so, and . . .
Does anyone believe this dreck?
"I twisted myself out of his grasp & stumbled backward, speechless with shock" (speechless, mind you, even if it's the twenty-fifth time her romantic lover has smacked her). She is concocting a weirdly idealized "Carol Harris" in her febrile brain, a character who is as guileless and wide-eyed as Cinderella. She even says numerous times, "My life had become a fairy tale." My bull**** meter hit the red back around page 36.
There are descriptions of things here -- we've talked about this already -- that wouldn't be here at all if they hadn't already been described, in virtually identical ways, in Mick's book. Examples: the New Zealand business on the Tusk tour, the show at the Munich Olympic Horse Riding Stadium, the various rehearsals, the photo shoots, the album sessions, the radio broadcast of "Tusk" before release, etc.
Virtually every other page, we read something like, "I could see the rage in his eyes and I knew that I was helpless." This is a romance novel, for chrissake -- a bodice-ripper. It's cheap, it's corrupt, it's hypocritical, & it's fake. The only Polaroids in the whole book that aren't mysteriously blurry are those of Carol herself, professionally taken as part of her modeling. What the great Mary McCarthy once said about Lillian Hellman is true here: Every word in this book is a lie -- even "a" and "the."
ROFLOL!!!! :nod:
One note: I love the end where Lindsey begs her to come back to him and sing with him. Yeah. Sure.
Of course people would ask why Lindsey wouldn't sue her for defamation of his character if there are untruths in the book. Why would he want to get himself involved in a legal battle at this point in his life? The man has a beautiful family, is probably the happiest he's ever been in his life and let's face it, obviously this book has done little if nothing to besmirtch the public image that he has. Once again, consider the source. It's the number one reason why I have not and will never read a word of her book.
Matt
Absolutely agree. It would be a waste of time and money. And frankly, why call more attention to it? I think Lindsey probably doesn't want to bring up memories of those time because, from what he has said and written, it wasn't a healthy or positive time in his life. He has young children but a few of them are approaching an age where something like a lawsuit over an ex-girlfriend's mean book couldn't go unnoticed, and I don't think it's fair to his kids to have that stuff dragged out in the press.
Now, as far as reading the book...I did. I don't see any harm (for myself) to read it because it does absolutely nothing to influence my feelings for the man's most important aspects, which are always primarily about his incredible music and overall talent. I understand your reasoning for not reading it, but my personality is such that things like books or tabloids mean squat in terms of why I became a fan. I read them, look at the pictures, discuss, and move on. I never dwell on them in my every day life nor would I consider asking Lindsey or anyone associated with him about these things if I ever had the (extremely unlikely) chance to sit down and pick his brain.
If I were to measure anything pertaining to Lindsey in terms of importance, this book wouldn't even make the scale. It's just "fluff"- like discussing his wardrobe or women. I don't see any harm if, ultimately, everything is done in good humor and we all know what makes him so amazing and why we are fans in the first place. :) I just can't take it all that seriously!
michelej1
04-19-2009, 11:03 PM
Spectacular post -- and not uncommon.
My notion is that Carol is seriously ill, but not in the way she might think. Either she's lying to a pathological degree or she's emotionally crippled to a pathological degree. Somebody is always scratching her arms, scratching her face, strangling her, punching her in the face, punching her in the back, pulling her hair, dragging her, or slapping her. She portrays herself as a pincushion. Worse, she appears to be getting off on this sadomasochistic portrait. No matter who is physically or verbally abusing her, she stands there,
You know, I was thinking this recently about a post I made regarding John's wedding. Carol says Jenny (in an argument with Stevie) pulled Carol in the closest with them. It's really a meaningless little passage, about very minor players in the book, but it just represents how she never has herself DOING anything. She is entirely passive. Little red wagons have been pulled around less than Carol. Things happen to her and she has no explanation as to why and no reaction when they do. This is so unnatural that it's not even physically or psychologically possible.
Just from the way she wrote that, my guess is she instigated the entire argument between Jenny and Stevie and jumped into the closet to egg them on.
She's no one and is so passive as to be nonexistent, but still people see her from across a room and instantly want to sleep with her or -- even stranger -- lie to Christine about sleeping with her. How could a woman who never does anything inspire such feeling?
And what I think about that Rolling Stone cover shoot is that it's somewhat diabolical what she does. If Lindsey and Stevie hugged (and SnL are psychotic themselves, so who even knows if they did), I wouldn't expect Carol to have been in the room at the time. She wouldn't know about it, so I would never expect her to mention it.
So, she doesn't fall into the trap of denying it or even acknowledging it. She just very subtly sets up the whole photo shoot in a way that would make it clear that such a thing couldn't have happened. Yeah, it was in my house, in my bed, with me standing outside the door and it was over very quickly. With no time for anyone to do one single thing but jump in bed, pose for Annie's camera and then jump out. It's such an odd lie (how many band photo shoots take place in a band member's bed?) that it's not something that could be created from a memory lapse. It has to be deliberate. Forget the big events in the book. It's very abnormal to go out of your way to lie about something so minor, to want so badly to create such a very specific picture.
Michele
So, she doesn't fall into the trap of denying it or even acknowledging it. She just very subtly sets up the whole photo shoot in a way that would make it clear that such a thing couldn't have happened. Yeah, it was in my house, in my bed, with me standing outside the door and it was over very quickly. With no time for anyone to do one single thing but jump in bed, pose for Annie's camera and then jump out. It's such an odd lie (how many band photo shoots take place in a band member's bed?) that it's not something that could be created from a memory lapse. It has to be deliberate. Forget the big events in the book. It's very abnormal to go out of your way to lie about something so minor, to want so badly to create such a very specific picture.
Michele
How interesting. It's quite obvious that, if this is the case, Carol knows that her story is a tired tale and she needed some spice to make it sound more interesting, less dull, MOR. Frankly, she probably wanted herself to sound more interesting ,sharp, innocent, and alluring to keep it from falling to the ground. She hasn't got much in terms of credentials to build upon, but her connections and experiences, and any of the drama she can elaborate on was the basis for this, I believe.
And then to paint her characters into more luminous beings she made herself seem like the naive, passive bystander who was walked all over, assaulted, insulted, and drugged up. Everything DOES always happen to her. It's crazy, but it makes sense. She had to make the story more captivating by building up these people to the stereotypical public perception: Stevie the pointy-toed, mystical pixie, Lindsey the over-intense, passionate madman genius, Christine the very English Mother Hen with handsome boyfriends, Mick the business-minded jerk, John the quiet drunk...she touches on all this, some more specifically than others, and it's all quite predictable, eh?
I can't deny that I believe some of the things happened. It's probably true to some extent, but the way she presents herself and many of the other people is so surface-level that it's a joke to take her too seriously. I could have opened up a copy of some bio summary rag comparable to Teen Beat and read about the same info on some of these people. If not more.
Lori40
04-22-2009, 12:45 PM
I was just reading the reviews of "Storms" on amazon and found it interesting that Jeremy Spencer just posted a review on April 9, 09. He starts off by writing, "Poor Carol. What she said about me was atrocious. A total lie..." Carol Ann then responded, "...I stand by every single word that I wrote in "Storms" and I wish you only the best."
I was just reading the reviews of "Storms" on amazon and found it interesting that Jeremy Spencer just posted a review on April 9, 09. He starts off by writing, "Poor Carol. What she said about me was atrocious. A total lie..." Carol Ann then responded, "...I stand by every single word that I wrote in "Storms" and I wish you only the best."
:shocked:
Runs off to read it...gee Michele sure you can't get Carol Ann to do a Q&A?:lol:
Here's what Carol Ann apparently wrote:
Jeremy,
The party in my book that you attended was not Lindsey's birthday party, but a summer barbecue. I'm sorry that you're distressed, but everything I wrote pertaining to you was either told to me by Mick Fleetwood or John McVie - (exactly as I've described it in my book) or I experienced myself when you came to our barbecue so many years ago - again, exactly as I've described in my book. I stand by every single word that I wrote in Storms and I wish you only the best.
Carol Ann
Hmm...Mick I had no doubt. But John! :shocked:
CADreaming
04-22-2009, 06:09 PM
Yeah, it was in my house, in my bed, with me standing outside the door and it was over very quickly. With no time for anyone to do one single thing but jump in bed, pose for Annie's camera and then jump out. It's such an odd lie (how many band photo shoots take place in a band member's bed?) that it's not something that could be created from a memory lapse.
Michele
That bed was on the floor, wasn't it?? :laugh:
Here's what Carol Ann apparently wrote:
Jeremy,
The party in my book that you attended was not Lindsey's birthday party, but a summer barbecue. I'm sorry that you're distressed, but everything I wrote pertaining to you was either told to me by Mick Fleetwood or John McVie - (exactly as I've described it in my book) or I experienced myself when you came to our barbecue so many years ago - again, exactly as I've described in my book. I stand by every single word that I wrote in Storms and I wish you only the best.
Carol Ann
The question is what single words did she write? Maybe she has a point. ha.
Of course, on the other hand, she can stand by every single word she wrote, look them in the eye and call them a LIE. :lol:
SuzeQuze
05-06-2009, 10:57 AM
I think she's a liar. I don't think she used old tapes as refreshers. I think she used old newspaper clippings & Mick's book as refreshers.
Carol wrote a Victorian melodrama, & Lindsey is the wicked villain with devilish looks, a Jack the Ripper mustache, one eyebrow arched, an evil red glow across part of his face (the other part is always in shadow).
Open any page at random. "Malevolent glances" are always being cast at this person or that person; "storm clouds" are always hanging over everything (inside people's homes!); angry lovers don't talk -- they "snarl," etc. etc.
She keeps making fun of the "soap opera" that the band's lives have become, but nothing in Fleetwood Mac history is as soapy as this book.
I'm with you. But it's surprisingly brief & surprisingly free of high drama. I agree that it's very odd that Carol makes absolutely no mention of ex-lovers hanging out together after everyone else leaves the room or goes home or whatever they did.
My notion is that Carol is seriously ill, but not in the way she might think. Either she's lying to a pathological degree or she's emotionally crippled to a pathological degree. Somebody is always scratching her arms, scratching her face, strangling her, punching her in the face, punching her in the back, pulling her hair, dragging her, or slapping her. She portrays herself as a pincushion. Worse, she appears to be getting off on this sadomasochistic portrait. No matter who is physically or verbally abusing her, she stands there, weeping like a sob sister, unable to speak or to move (how many people, when their arm is being twisted, don't use their free arm to push or elbow?). She is frozen in place, time after time, wondering what did I ever do to make them so angry with me? I love them and I know they love me because they said so, and . . .
Does anyone believe this dreck?
"I twisted myself out of his grasp & stumbled backward, speechless with shock" (speechless, mind you, even if it's the twenty-fifth time her romantic lover has smacked her). She is concocting a weirdly idealized "Carol Harris" in her febrile brain, a character who is as guileless and wide-eyed as Cinderella. She even says numerous times, "My life had become a fairy tale." My bull**** meter hit the red back around page 36.
There are descriptions of things here -- we've talked about this already -- that wouldn't be here at all if they hadn't already been described, in virtually identical ways, in Mick's book. Examples: the New Zealand business on the Tusk tour, the show at the Munich Olympic Horse Riding Stadium, the various rehearsals, the photo shoots, the album sessions, the radio broadcast of "Tusk" before release, etc.
Virtually every other page, we read something like, "I could see the rage in his eyes and I knew that I was helpless." This is a romance novel, for chrissake -- a bodice-ripper. It's cheap, it's corrupt, it's hypocritical, & it's fake. The only Polaroids in the whole book that aren't mysteriously blurry are those of Carol herself, professionally taken as part of her modeling. What the great Mary McCarthy once said about Lillian Hellman is true here: Every word in this book is a lie -- even "a" and "the."
Well CAH is a classic codependent. She gave up on her own life's ambitions to give everything to Lindsey. This is just not how healthy relationships work. People lose interest in someone when they do not have their own identity. She's also a classic love addict romanticizing everything (not living in reality) and staying in an awful relationship because she is "so in love". So yes she had/has some serious psychological issues that reveal themselves in the book. She even admits to having had panic attacks and being hospitalized for a bit due to them. Of course she blames Lindsey for them and again takes no responsibility for herself.
hippilil86
09-05-2009, 05:23 PM
I just checked out "Storms" from the library yesterday and finished it today. It was a quick read, mostly because it was easy to skim. I guess it was interesting, but the writing was a little too flowery for my taste. Any new information about Fleetwood Mac that I can get my hands on is a bonus. I thought that she was purposely avoiding talking about anything deep involving Stevie, but I guess I would have avoided learning much about my boyfriend's ex, as well. One of the parts that I thought was intriguing was when Stevie, (apparently high out of her mind) came up to Carol and threatened her, telling her that she would do anything that it took to make sure that Carol and Lindsey would never be married. Then...it was back to silly stories about Stevie's poodle and gaggle of girlfriends. We got that little snippet of substance, then nothing.
vivfox
09-05-2009, 07:35 PM
I have never read this book. I'd like to but some jerk stole it from the local library and because of budget cuts they said it will never be replaced. It was on order to arrive from another library in a city on the other side of the mirror/state and now no book for me. Maybe someday I'll come across it in a used book store or something.
I have never read this book. I'd like to but some jerk stole it from the local library and because of budget cuts they said it will never be replaced. It was on order to arrive from another library in a city on the other side of the mirror/state and now no book for me. Maybe someday I'll come across it in a used book store or something.
Why not just SEARCH INSIDE (http://www.amazon.com/Storms-Life-Lindsey-Buckingham-Fleetwood/dp/155652790X/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252205343&sr=1-4) the book? it's free.:shrug: if you're savvy enough you could prob end up reading the whole thing with the right search words. ;)
CADreaming
09-05-2009, 09:51 PM
I have never read this book. I'd like to but some jerk stole it from the local library and because of budget cuts they said it will never be replaced. It was on order to arrive from another library in a city on the other side of the mirror/state and now no book for me. Maybe someday I'll come across it in a used book store or something.
Hang in there. Whoever stole it will be quickly returning it...
GypsyBlueEyes
09-06-2009, 03:35 AM
We got that little snippet of substance, then nothing.
LOL...from what I've read/heard, she is a little snippet of substance, then nothing...so I'm not overly surprised that it translates into her writing :laugh:
Even though she comes off as a total flake, this book may actually be the best written thus far about Fleetwood Mac, in terms of relating some of the behind-the-scenes shenanigans. I personally took it all with a grain of salt. Retrospectively, perhaps her intent was to knock LB's image and take him down off of whatever pedestal his fans placed him, but really and truly I lost tons of respect for her. It appears to me that she enjoyed her lifestyle more than her self-respect, and she was one of those types of women that are annoyingly clingy and dependent, and although I believe LB probably enjoyed being the man and in charge, I'm unsure of how much respect any man could have for a woman who doesn't appear to want to live her own life and be somewhat independent.
Stevie Nicks, in comparison, was very independent. And maybe that bothered Lindsey but I'm sure now he respects her for it...or he wouldn't even be around her. And his wife as well seems to do her own thing and, although none of us know what goes on behind closed doors, it looks to be working wonderfully for them.
Being someone who lives for my independence, Carol Ann is the type of person I can never relate to at all.
michelej1
09-06-2009, 02:06 PM
and although I believe LB probably enjoyed being the man and in charge, I'm unsure of how much respect any man could have for a woman who doesn't appear to want to live her own life and be somewhat independent.
In a couple of places, Carol said that Lindsey was relieved to have her have something to do when he was with FM (even if she was just doing it with other FM hangers on), so I got the feeling even he felt it important for her to have a life other than his.
Cheri, Anne and Kristen all seemed to have had outside, active lives. I remember an interview where they asked Lindsey what he did in his spare time and he said he helped his girlfriend run lines. It just sounded like more of a partnership.
Of course, Anne did say something along the lines that while playing with Lindsey was fun, she did feel like she was playing his games (traveling on tour with his band) and not pursuing her own and that made her restless.
Michele
vivfox
09-06-2009, 09:10 PM
Why not just SEARCH INSIDE (http://www.amazon.com/Storms-Life-Lindsey-Buckingham-Fleetwood/dp/155652790X/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252205343&sr=1-4) the book? it's free.:shrug: if you're savvy enough you could prob end up reading the whole thing with the right search words. ;)
I read the first 6 pages but I'm not savvy enough to find the rest. It was very good so far. I was sad for her when she described giving up her baby and her boyfriend taking her to the theatre to drive in the point at her.
trackaghost
09-07-2009, 11:08 AM
Even though she comes off as a total flake, this book may actually be the best written thus far about Fleetwood Mac, in terms of relating some of the behind-the-scenes shenanigans. I personally took it all with a grain of salt.
I agree 100 per cent. There was stuff in that book that's always been alluded to, the drugs, the debauchery, the parties, the fights etc, but had never been written about in detail before, even in Mick's book. Carol Ann's book at least gave a flavour of that I think and what the excessive lifestyle of being in a band like that was like, despite the flowery language.
CrystalVisions6
12-26-2010, 08:15 PM
Hello everyone,
I'm re-reading Storms for the first time in around a year. I've been wondering about some of the things raised in the book.
First of all, what are your opinions on Carol Ann, and did they change after you had read the book?
Secondly, did anything you read surprise you? I know I was quite surprised about the extent of Lindsey's anger issues...
Anything else you found particularly interesting?
I know this has been discussed a lot on this forum, I just thought I'd bring it up again :)
<3
louielouie2000
12-26-2010, 09:10 PM
My pet name for Carol Ann many years prior before the book was released was "Crack Whore" (because of her well documented substance abuse issues and penchant for drama/lying), and I still call her that after reading the book :laugh:. The book didn't change my opinion of her for one reason alone: she never admitted any wrongdoing in any circumstance in her book, and instead painted herself as a wholly naive victim. The reality is nobody was innocent in the Mac's inner circle in the '70s and '80s, period. They all made mistakes, they all did horrible things to themselves and each other, etc.
Anything that surprised me? Carol Ann's retelling of Lindsey's health issues. I didn't realize he was an epileptic. Lindsey's anger issues didn't surprise me, Carol Ann had been telling of those for more than a decade. Plus, Lindsey is highly emotive, has a complex where he feels unappreciated and uncredited, he famously assaulted Stevie ON STAGE on the Tusk tour, etc. Lindsey seems like he could quite easily be a dark, moody person in private.
I still greatly enjoyed the book, despite Carol Ann's craziness. It's a trashy, fun, deliciously gossipy read. Carol Ann's run ins with Stevie Nicks were especially hilarious... I adore the way Carol Ann realistically painted Stevie as a batsh!t crazy b!tch... which you just KNOW she really had to be at the height of her fame :laugh:. I think the general atmosphere Carol Ann painted of the dynamics of the band was probably quite accurate. They all loved to play pranks on one another, tried to one up one another, their egos battled, they loved to do as much drugs as they could ingest, spent wildly, and just in general did as much stupid sh!t as they could.
So that's my two cents. I don't think you can take any particular story Carol Ann says as being completely accurate, but I still think she paints a true picture of the band. I still think Carol Ann is completely nuts. And not a whole lot in the book surprised me.
mezzoforte
12-26-2010, 09:30 PM
As I'm new to the board, I'd never heard of Carol Ann before reading the book, so I didn't have preconceived notions. But my impression of her, having finished it, is that she's probably a very sweet girl, but a bit lacking in humor, personality, and introspection, which are, I think, necessary to an autobiography.
The extent of Lindsey's anger was surprising (and I do believe her accounts of the violence). I'd always imagined him to be a pretty dark guy, but the assault caught me a bit off guard.
And though I found the Stevie stories hilarious and can totally believe that she was that out of it, I was surprised/skeptical of Lindsey's reactions to her. It was odd; early on, Carol described seeing them interact and realizing that he "wasn't over her," or something like that. But that thread is immediately dropped, and for the rest of the book he just seems to find Stevie utterly ridiculous.
I'm by no means a shipper--I don't need to believe that he has been pining away for her for 30 years. But I would assume their relationship was more complicated than portrayed, and that it wasn't totally over in those years. I mean, Stevie and Lindsey both described holding each other following the RS shoot. As Lindsey's girlfriend, it's hardly shocking that Carol wasn't around for moments like that, but I would still think the entire relationship would have been more complex than it appears in Storms.
CADreaming
12-26-2010, 10:55 PM
As I'm new to the board, I'd never heard of Carol Ann before reading the book, so I didn't have preconceived notions. But my impression of her, having finished it, is that she's probably a very sweet girl, but a bit lacking in humor, personality, and introspection, which are, I think, necessary to an autobiography.
The extent of Lindsey's anger was surprising (and I do believe her accounts of the violence). I'd always imagined him to be a pretty dark guy, but the assault caught me a bit off guard.
And though I found the Stevie stories hilarious and can totally believe that she was that out of it, I was surprised/skeptical of Lindsey's reactions to her. It was odd; early on, Carol described seeing them interact and realizing that he "wasn't over her," or something like that. But that thread is immediately dropped, and for the rest of the book he just seems to find Stevie utterly ridiculous.
I'm by no means a shipper--I don't need to believe that he has been pining away for her for 30 years. But I would assume their relationship was more complicated than portrayed, and that it wasn't totally over in those years. I mean, Stevie and Lindsey both described holding each other following the RS shoot. As Lindsey's girlfriend, it's hardly shocking that Carol wasn't around for moments like that, but I would still think the entire relationship would have been more complex than it appears in Storms.
Lindsey was a mean drunk, that's not surprising...
It's not surprising that 30 years ago, CAH couldn't see the complexity of Lindsey's relationship with Stevie - too much coke and too much smoke and love is indeed blind, as they say...
But, it is surprising that CAH admitted in an interview a couple-three years ago that she KNEW Lindsey was still in love with Stevie ... and then left that juicy bit of fodder out of her sensational book! Wow...talk about missing a great marketing strategy...must be why she's decided to put out a new one...let's hope she's a little bit more realistic next time around...
Not that I would mind reading between the proverbial *lines* for any other instances where Lindsey felt Stevie needed a good talking to and then proceeds to leave his girlfriend stranded for several hours while he confronts Ms. Nicks in her hotel room and she ends up breaking out in an emotional carpet bur - I mean - "rash"... :laugh::laugh:
favorite.story.ever. :wavey:
mezzoforte
12-26-2010, 11:19 PM
Lindsey was a mean drunk, that's not surprising...
It's not surprising that 30 years ago, CAH couldn't see the complexity of Lindsey's relationship with Stevie - too much coke and too much smoke and love is indeed blind, as they say...
But, it is surprising that CAH admitted in an interview a couple-three years ago that she KNEW Lindsey was still in love with Stevie ... and then left that juicy bit of fodder out of her sensational book! Wow...talk about missing a great marketing strategy...must be why she's decided to put out a new one...let's hope she's a little bit more realistic next time around...
Not that I would mind reading between the proverbial *lines* for any other instances where Lindsey felt Stevie needed a good talking to and then proceeds to leave his girlfriend stranded for several hours while he confronts Ms. Nicks in her hotel room and she ends up breaking out in an emotional carpet bur - I mean - "rash"... :laugh::laugh:
favorite.story.ever. :wavey:
Ha! Yup, my mind went there immediately too. I tend to revel in drama, so that was a high point of the book IMO--more than happy to read between the lines there.
michelej1
12-27-2010, 12:20 AM
I think you'll get a very thorough rundown of all opinions in this thread.
http://www.ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=36386&page=42&highlight=storms
ButterCookie
12-27-2010, 09:53 AM
OH GOD, Chris! Not the granny panties!!
Regina
12-27-2010, 01:10 PM
I disliked the book. I was, at one point, absolutely ready to throw the book out the window, hoping it would be run over by a car and torn to shreds by the street sweeping machine...and then burned.
That was basically over the story of Carol Ann running through the streets barefoot, feet bleeding, trying to get Lindsey medical help instead of...oh, using a phone? She came off, to me, as foolish and self-aggrandizing.
I did, however, believe some of the stories had basic grains of truth to them and came to the conclusion that I wouldn't have liked any of them, at that point, as people. Not that they would give a rat's ass then or now. But, I also came away from the experience feeling the same way as I have, a few times, over particularly nasty Ledgie fights. You build someone up, in your mind, as great artists, people who mean something to you, etc. And it's very difficult when someone tries to tear them apart. Even if they feel they are doing so as some great big public service. Yes, people are human and have all kinds of nasty little things in their closets but...I'm just too idealistic for the "whole truth." Whether the truth is 100% real or 50% manufactured in a fried brain.
And the thing is...if she wanted to either take Lindsey down or gain great fame by this book, I think she failed for one simple reason: the way it was written. If she had presented it in a more balanced way and been slightly less melodramatic and more matter of fact, I think she probably would have succeeded on both counts.
louielouie2000
12-27-2010, 03:13 PM
And the thing is...if she wanted to either take Lindsey down or gain great fame by this book, I think she failed for one simple reason: the way it was written. If she had presented it in a more balanced way and been slightly less melodramatic and more matter of fact, I think she probably would have succeeded on both counts.
I've often tried to figure out exactly what Carol Ann's motives were for writing and publishing the book. I'd have to think if she wanted money/fame/revenge, she would have released it around the time of The Dance. Instead, she waited a full decade after the Dance was released. Not only did she not coincide with the Dance, she missed the Say You Will boat too (though that ended up being FM's poorest-selling album [sans Time] since 1974). In my opinion, Carol Ann greatly missed her boat. But was that on purpose, though? I'm not sure. I get the feeling she didn't want to take Lindsey down or gain fame, per se. Elsewise she would have released the book when the band was big in the headlines (perhaps after the big Tango breakup, or following The Dance). Maybe she's truly deluded enough to think she's telling the truth as she believes it to be, and chose to release the book during a low-key Mac period simply to cleanse her conscious and close that chapter of her life? :shrug:
SuperFleetwood
12-27-2010, 03:32 PM
ugghh that book anoys the crap out of me!
ButterCookie
12-27-2010, 03:40 PM
I've often tried to figure out exactly what Carol Ann's motives were for writing and publishing the book. I'd have to think if she wanted money/fame/revenge, she would have released it around the time of The Dance. Instead, she waited a full decade after the Dance was released. Not only did she not coincide with the Dance, she missed the Say You Will boat too (though that ended up being FM's poorest-selling album [sans Time] since 1974). In my opinion, Carol Ann greatly missed her boat. But was that on purpose, though? I'm not sure. I get the feeling she didn't want to take Lindsey down or gain fame, per se. Elsewise she would have released the book when the band was big in the headlines (perhaps after the big Tango breakup, or following The Dance). Maybe she's truly deluded enough to think she's telling the truth as she believes it to be, and chose to release the book during a low-key Mac period simply to cleanse her conscious and close that chapter of her life? :shrug:
http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu10/gordy4000/money.gif
Villavic
12-27-2010, 03:58 PM
Oh I thought:( you meant the song (one of the best Stevie's song!!!)
Carol's book has lot of interesting, curious stories, like the night at Eric Clapton's home. But to me it's more like a collection of episodes, and almost gossip. I never "got hooked" to the book, actually never finished reading it.
Mick Fleetwood's book is far better, looks more authentic (though I know many people questioned it) and very good written. I've read it lot of times, the first time I read it continously for several hours until I fell asleep (actually i bought it in Europe so I started to read it during the 15 hours flight) ;)
louielouie2000
12-27-2010, 05:29 PM
http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu10/gordy4000/money.gif
I take it that person is mouthing "Money, money, money"? :shrug:
I can't imagine she made much dough from it. After all, it sold pretty much nothing... wasn't even available in most stores (I had to get mine off Amazon). But I could be wrong... maybe she got a decent advance. My understanding of advances are that they're pretty darn meager for most authors tho, especially unproven first time ones.
But maybe she's just like Elvira: "Sure, I'll do it for 50 bucks!" :laugh:
ButterCookie
12-27-2010, 05:36 PM
I take it that person is mouthing "Money, money, money"? :shrug:
I can't imagine she made much dough from it. After all, it sold pretty much nothing... wasn't even available in most stores (I had to get mine off Amazon). But I could be wrong... maybe she got a decent advance. My understanding of advances are that they're pretty darn meager for most authors tho, especially unproven first time ones.
But maybe she's just like Elvira: "Sure, I'll do it for 50 bucks!" :laugh:
Yeah :laugh: It's Agnetha in one of the Money, Money, Money videos.
I'd like to know if anyone has read the book Storms about Lindsey and his ex-girlfriend Carel Harris. I just read it & thought it was so interesting.
CADreaming
08-13-2011, 09:28 PM
Hi..welcome. Yes, you'll find that topic has definitely come up here ... many times. :)
Here's one: http://ledge.fleetwoodmac.net/showthread.php?t=36386&highlight=Carol+Harris+Storms
McTrouble
08-14-2011, 04:58 AM
I'd like to know if anyone has read the book Storms about Lindsey and his ex-girlfriend Carel Harris. I just read it & thought it was so interesting.
Welcome to The Ledge! :wavey:
I love Storms - it's both fascinating and very very funny!
Welcome to The Ledge! :wavey:
I love Storms - it's both fascinating and very very funny!
I have to say that Storms is 1 of the best books I've ever read.The only reason I found it was because I was searching on Amazon's Kindle.
vivfox
08-14-2011, 04:17 PM
I started reading this book last summer and have yet to finish it. I only read it when I'm waiting for the car to be fixed(which is rare) or relaxing in the park(which is rare) or relaxing at the beach(which is rare) or relaxing at all(which is rare).LOL
When I finish it I have been instructed to send it off to tilthefirefades and I promise I will. I just need to finish it first. I have less than 100 pages to go. I just read the part where Lindsey asked Mick Jagger if he wanted to s@#k Tom Petty's d&%k.:sorry:
I started reading this book last summer and have yet to finish it. I only read it when I'm waiting for the car to be fixed(which is rare) or relaxing in the park(which is rare) or relaxing at the beach(which is rare) or relaxing at all(which is rare).LOL
When I finish it I have been instructed to send it off to tilthefirefades and I promise I will. I just need to finish it first. I have less than 100 pages to go. I just read the part where Lindsey asked Mick Jagger if he wanted to s@#k Tom Petty's d&%k.:sorry:
It took me a month to read Storms. I usually don't take that long to read a book, but that's what happens when I read 2 books at once.
PenguinHead
08-14-2011, 11:04 PM
I read the book in two days. It's an intriguing read. It has received a lot of flack from some fans who consider it a money-grab item with little integrity and a vindictive agenda. But I don't see it that way.
Granted, some of the content may be embelished, but what autobiography isn't? History has a way of being slightly revised by faded memories and personal perspective.
Storms is likely the most candid insight -- into to the personal dynamics of Fleetwood Mac -- that we will ever get. Carol Ann was an outsider who became an insider/witness during a very dramatic, pivitol time in the band. If anything, her story has more objectivity and truth than we could ever expect from a self-penned book from Stevie or Lindsey.
I found Storms to be a fascinating read, and it has certainly made me listen to the Rumours and Tusk albums in a different light. Unfortunately it has also made me view Lindsey in a different light, although I'm trying not to let it ruin his music for me.
Morgana
08-15-2011, 01:30 PM
I read the book in two days. It's an intriguing read. It has received a lot of flack from some fans who consider it a money-grab item with little integrity and a vindictive agenda. But I don't see it that way.
Granted, some of the content may be embelished, but what autobiography isn't? History has a way of being slightly revised by faded memories and personal perspective.
Storms is likely the most candid insight -- into to the personal dynamics of Fleetwood Mac -- that we will ever get. Carol Ann was an outsider who became an insider/witness during a very dramatic, pivitol time in the band. If anything, her story has more objectivity and truth than we could ever expect from a self-penned book from Stevie or Lindsey.
Well said! :thumbsup:
jellyman10
08-16-2011, 06:01 AM
I found Storms to be a fascinating read, and it has certainly made me listen to the Rumours and Tusk albums in a different light. Unfortunately it has also made me view Lindsey in a different light, although I'm trying not to let it ruin his music for me.
Same for me. He's sorted himself out later in life, and I'll always give anyone credit for that, but I really do think he could be one nasty SOB back then. Stevie was right to walk away from that 'darkness', as she put it.
sushud82
08-16-2011, 08:50 AM
I read the book recently as well and thought it was captivating. I found myself not wanting to believe a lot of what was written, but was able to suspend my disbelief for the most part. Not sure she has a reason to flat-out lie, per se. Most memoir falls under the "creative non-fiction" spectrum meaning re-creating dialogue is acceptable though not always believable.
That being said, none of it surprised me much. What surprised me most was that I felt real sympathy for CAH. Regardless of what was said or done the woman gave up a good portion of her life for Lindsey and was left with pretty much nothing to show for it. I'm not going to whip out my tiny violin or anything, she had a good run and all, but I do not envy her in those last years she spent with Lindsey.
I'm just glad he seems to have shaped up these days, but I guess we'll never really know.
michelej1
12-30-2012, 06:04 PM
So, after commenting to redtulip in the other thread, I was just reading the passage and I had to laugh at CAH. Lindsey told her to come over and she got dressed in a pleated skirt and white shirt like a school girl. This drove the men wild.:cool:
Lindsey said to her, "Hey, little girl, looks like you're looking for your daddy. I like it Carol. You should wear this stuff more often." [That was pervy].
Mick and Lindsey pretended to fight over her. "Stevie sat silently, apparently not thrilled by my arrival and the happy reception I was receiving."
The band members followed Annie meekly into a back bedroom as I made myself comfortable on Lindsey's couch. Knowing the size of his extra bedroom and the number of people and the amount of equipment that had been crammed into it, there was no way I could follow them. I flipped through magazines and listened to the laughter echoing down the hall. In less than an hour the shoot was finished and forty-five minutes after that the house was empty except for Lindsey and me. He pulled me up from the couch and led me into his bedroom. as he showed me the Polaroids that Annie'd left for him, I could see that the cover shot was amazing.
Michele
Sleepless-Child
12-30-2012, 06:12 PM
So, after commenting to redtulip in the other thread, I was just reading the passage and I had to laugh at CAH. Lindsey told her to come over and she got dressed in a pleated skirt and white shirt like a school girl. This drove the men wild.:cool:
Lindsey said to her, "Hey, little girl, looks like you're looking for your daddy. I like it Carol. You should wear this stuff more often." [That was pervy].
Mick and Lindsey pretended to fight over her. "Stevie sat silently, apparently not thrilled by my arrival and the happy reception I was receiving."
Michele
The image of Lindsey being able to switch from Carol to Stevie to Carol is kind of disturbing to me. You know, "oh you're hot as a school girl", then i'm making out with my ex on a photoshoot bed and driving everyone crazy, and then back to you, Carol! Oh well.
The thing i was the most looking forward to when i started the book was to see Carol's reaction after reading the lyrics' to songs like "That's enough for me", or you know, any Lindsey song on Tusk. There is no way she wasn't even a little pissed it was all about Stevie. But no...
michelej1
12-30-2012, 06:22 PM
The thing i was the most looking forward to when i started the book was to see Carol's reaction after reading the lyrics' to songs like "That's enough for me", or you know, any Lindsey song on Tusk. There is no way she wasn't even a little pissed it was all about Stevie. But no...
True, it's a pride thing, like you said. But after the book was out, they did an interview about FM in one of the magazines (the article title was a take off on the movie, Sex, Lies and Video Tape) and she was a lot more honest about SnL than she was in her book.
But very often in these autobiographies, because people are proprietary and don't want to make themselves seem too aggressive or combative, they end up telling more about what they observe than what they feel and their reaction to those feelings. I mean, you might expect it from CAH because she knows that people are more interested than FM than in her own story, but I feel that she may have played more active parts in the FM events that unfolded around her and it would have been interesting if we could read all the details.
Michele
redtulip
12-30-2012, 06:34 PM
True, it's a pride thing, like you said. But after the book was out, they did an interview about FM in one of the magazines (the article title was a take off on the movie, Sex, Lies and Video Tape) and she was a lot more honest about SnL than she was in her book.
But very often in these autobiographies, because people are proprietary and don't want to make themselves seem too aggressive or combative, they end up telling more about what they observe than what they feel and their reaction to those feelings. I mean, you might expect it from CAH because she knows that people are more interested than FM than in her own story, but I feel that she may have played more active parts in the FM events that unfolded around her and it would have been interesting if we could read all the details.
Michele
Do you know if the article is online anywhere?
michelej1
12-30-2012, 06:41 PM
Do you know if the article is online anywhere?
Yes it is. Let me think of search terms.
Michele
michelej1
12-30-2012, 06:52 PM
This is what CAH said in Classic Rock Magazine in the September 2007 issue, title Sex, Lines and Audio Tape:
"The mood in the room would change from light to dark whenever they were together. The sheer tension between them was overwhelming; it literally stopped people in their tracks. They could say the most mean and hurtful things to each other. Not because they meant it, because I don't think they really did, but just because they wanted to cut the other one down. The big thing, though, was that Lindsey still loved Stevie. I know he did. Through all the time he was with me, he never stopped loving her. No matter how insane she made him, I don't think he was over the fact that they weren't a couple anymore. He blamed himself for their break-up, and I think she blamed herself as well. They had that in common, although it was an unspoken bond between them."
vivfox
12-30-2012, 11:21 PM
The thing i was the most looking forward to when i started the book was to see Carol's reaction after reading the lyrics' to songs like "That's enough for me", or you know, any Lindsey song on Tusk. There is no way she wasn't even a little pissed it was all about Stevie. But no...
It's been a long time since I read this book but remind me someone, please. Wasn't it the release of the Go Insane record where she read all his lyrics and determined they were all negatively about her and that is when she knew she had to leave him for good?
redtulip
12-30-2012, 11:31 PM
This is what CAH said in Classic Rock Magazine in the September 2007 issue, title Sex, Lines and Audio Tape:
"The mood in the room would change from light to dark whenever they were together. The sheer tension between them was overwhelming; it literally stopped people in their tracks. They could say the most mean and hurtful things to each other. Not because they meant it, because I don't think they really did, but just because they wanted to cut the other one down. The big thing, though, was that Lindsey still loved Stevie. I know he did. Through all the time he was with me, he never stopped loving her. No matter how insane she made him, I don't think he was over the fact that they weren't a couple anymore. He blamed himself for their break-up, and I think she blamed herself as well. They had that in common, although it was an unspoken bond between them."
Thank you Michele, that was interesting!
redtulip
12-30-2012, 11:33 PM
It's been a long time since I read this book but remind me someone, please. Wasn't it the release of the Go Insane record where she read all his lyrics and determined they were all negatively about her and that is when she knew she had to leave him for good?
She had already left him when Go Insane was released. She came home one day from work to find a copy of the record on her doorstep. She listened to it and was unhappy with how she was portrayed in the songs. They were already broken up, but she may have said she truly knew it was over at that point.
michelej1
12-30-2012, 11:33 PM
It's been a long time since I read this book but remind me someone, please. Wasn't it the release of the Go Insane record where she read all his lyrics and determined they were all negatively about her and that is when she knew she had to leave him for good?
Well, she was aware that the Go Insane songs were about her. I don't know if that's why she left.
But this reminds me of Stevie saying that she just thought the line "you're here cause I say so" was great, because it was true of the person Lindsey was talking about. Stevie obviously thought that part of NTF was about Carol Ann. I found that amusing.
Michele
WildHearted
12-30-2012, 11:37 PM
Well, she was aware that the Go Insane songs were about her. I don't know if that's why she left.
But this reminds me of Stevie saying that she just thought the line "you're here cause I say so" was great, because it was true of the person Lindsey was talking about. Stevie obviously thought that part of NTF was about Carol Ann. I found that amusing.
Michele
I always thought that line was about Stevie, and the fact that the only reason she was in the band was because of Lindsey. :lol:
michelej1
12-30-2012, 11:43 PM
I always thought that line was about Stevie, and the fact that the only reason she was in the band was because of Lindsey. :lol:
I know. Most people read it that way, but not Stevie.
CAH said after she listened to the GI album, "it was obvious to me that Lindsey's fury over the fact that I'd left him had been poured into his music. And the truth behind the music was of little importance."
She goes on to say, "but one thing he didn't seem or want to understand was this: I had a little power of my own. I could decide who I spent the rest of my life with -- and as of that moment, no matter how much i still loved him, I could never forgive or forget this ultimate insult. He'd lost me. Go Insane was the epitaph for our relationship."
Michele
bombaysaffires
12-31-2012, 12:11 AM
Why didn't his mother spell it Lindsay? Was she so damaged by "Rutheda" that she just thought she'd mess him up too?
Michele
I've always heard that
LindsEy is the male spelling
LindsAy is female spelling
see for example
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Lindsay
7. Lindsay 1009 up, 397 down
The original and correct spelling of the popular name meaning 'From the Linden Tree Isle.' Can be a name for both genders, but generally Lindsay is the female form, and Lindsey is the male form.
michelej1
12-31-2012, 12:27 AM
I think in the UK "Lindsey" is (or at least was) a more commonly male name and it was spelled "Lindsey" there. More men were named Lindsey than women. The same thing with a name like Stacy. But in the United States, it's just not as common to name men Leslie, Dana or Lindsey. It may have been more common 20-30 years before LB was born, but for men of his generation it doesn't seem to be a very popular name.
When I was growing up, most Michelles were spelled <----- that way. Now, it seems to me to be 50/50 whether you use one "L" or two.
But my advise to Rutheda would be not to name him Lindsey at all, spelled either way. You know, do something where no androgyny will sneak in at all. Go with "Edgar."
Michele
bombaysaffires
12-31-2012, 12:39 AM
I think in the UK "Lindsey" is (or at least was) a more commonly male name and it was spelled "Lindsey" there. More men were named Lindsey than women. The same thing with a name like Stacy. But in the United States, it's just not as common to name men Leslie, Dana or Lindsey. It may have been more common 20-30 years before LB was born, but for men of his generation it doesn't seem to be a very popular name.
When I was growing up, most Michelles were spelled <----- that way. Now, it seems to me to be 50/50 whether you use one "L" or two.
But my advise to Rutheda would be not to name him Lindsey at all, spelled either way. You know, do something where no androgyny will sneak in at all. Go with "Edgar."
Michele
I dunno.... a gender-neutral name kinda goes with that gender-neutral voice. .. :sorry:.<ducking>
michelej1
12-31-2012, 12:45 AM
I dunno.... a gender-neutral name kinda goes with that gender-neutral voice. .. :sorry:.<ducking>
For whatever reason, I think both the first and last name suit him. And I'm glad he was given something fairly uncommon. I wouldn't want him to be Greg or Jeff.
Michele
WildHearted
12-31-2012, 12:57 AM
I've personally always found it hilarious that Stevie and Lindsey managed to find each other, having those matching androgynous names.
Was it Ken Callait who said he called Stevie 'Lindsey' the first time they met?
bombaysaffires
12-31-2012, 12:59 AM
For whatever reason, I think both the first and last name suit him. And I'm glad he was given something fairly uncommon. I wouldn't want him to be Greg or Jeff.
Michele
though the voice seems a common thread....
michelej1
12-31-2012, 01:10 AM
I've personally always found it hilarious that Stevie and Lindsey managed to find each other, having those matching androgynous names.
Was it Ken Callait who said he called Stevie 'Lindsey' the first time they met?
And one of the early press reviews switched their names as well. Michele
michelej1
12-31-2012, 01:18 AM
though the voice seems a common thread....
What do you mean? That his brothers have high voices? I have never heard audio of Greg Buckingham, but obviously we've seen Jeff. Could be that after the first two, the mom said, "Oh man, I recognize a trend here. My sons have really shrill voices. I just might as well give this last one a girl's name, then people won't expect a baritone."
We've talked about his singing, but Lindsey's speaking voice has deepened with age as well. It sounds good.
Michele
bombaysaffires
12-31-2012, 02:12 AM
What do you mean? That his brothers have high voices? I have never heard audio of Greg Buckingham, but obviously we've seen Jeff. Could be that after the first two, the mom said, "Oh man, I recognize a trend here. My sons have really shrill voices. I just might as well give this last one a girl's name, then people won't expect a baritone."
We've talked about his singing, but Lindsey's speaking voice has deepened with age as well. It sounds good.
Michele
LOL..... I was being dry. But it would be curious to hear what Greg sounded like (there's probably film somewhere of him being interviewed about the Olympics but I've never come across any of it) and what their dad sounded like..
I re-watched the backstage footage posted earlier and was reminded just how much higher and thinner his speaking voice was back then. I'd forgotten how much it changed. I'd be surprised if all the years of smoking (ahem) and belting away onstage wouldn't have deepened his voice (besides the normal effects of aging). Even now, though, his speaking voice is on the higher side for men. But those blue eyes more than make up for it....
HomerMcvie
12-31-2012, 04:28 AM
But my advise to Rutheda would be not to name him Lindsey at all, spelled either way. You know, do something where no androgyny will sneak in at all. Go with "Edgar."
Michele
Edgar Buckingham.
#careerfail
:p
CADreaming
12-31-2012, 09:48 AM
I've personally always found it hilarious that Stevie and Lindsey managed to find each other, having those matching androgynous names.
But her name really is Stephanie. It's not like his is really Leonard. Their names are not a big deal to me - of course I know guys named Dana, Shannon, Lynn...
Edgar Buckingham.
#careerfail
:p
Lol. :laugh:
michelej1
12-31-2012, 02:49 PM
Edgar Buckingham.
#careerfail
:p
The sad thing is, people would just call him "Ed." He'd be a generic Ed Buckingham. I always like it better when people have those old names and don't abbreviate them.
Michele
michelej1
12-31-2012, 02:51 PM
But her name really is Stephanie. It's not like his is really Leonard. Their names are not a big deal to me - of course I know guys named Dana, Shannon, Lynn...
When she told Mick not to introduce her as Stephanie, I wonder why that was. I wonder if she was saving that intro in memory of her dad, who always did it that way.
I wonder what kind of look you would get if you just walked up to her and said, "Hey, Steph." I think I will try that if I ever see her on the street.
As for male names, I really favor names like Paris and Cary. If I don't go unisex, then I lean to something unusual like Devlin (again in honor of Cary Grant) or Dashiell.
Michele
The Catdancer
12-31-2012, 09:52 PM
I know. Most people read it that way, but not Stevie.
CAH said after she listened to the GI album, "it was obvious to me that Lindsey's fury over the fact that I'd left him had been poured into his music. And the truth behind the music was of little importance."
She goes on to say, "but one thing he didn't seem or want to understand was this: I had a little power of my own. I could decide who I spent the rest of my life with -- and as of that moment, no matter how much i still loved him, I could never forgive or forget this ultimate insult. He'd lost me. Go Insane was the epitaph for our relationship."
Michele
That's not true. I met him in September of 1984 and I didn't know about the break up so I asked him how Carol was. He said they had broken up because she was slightly self destructive and he didn't want to go down that road. He bought her a condo, paid her bills until she could take care of herself. He was sad about it (I'm doing this from memory so bear with me) but he didn't appear to be heart broken. He made it sound like he left her. I haven't read the book, I never will, but he wasn't as desperate as she makes him out to be. I don't believe for a second that he begged her to come back and asked her to marry him.
As for her working on the Little Lies video, that's not true either. I was 'phone buddies' with Judy Wong at the time and she told me all about that shoot, she never mentioned Carol being there. She mentioned other people being there (JC, Wayne Cody, Kim Brakely etc) but no mention of Carol.
michelej1
12-31-2012, 10:03 PM
As for her working on the Little Lies video, that's not true either. I was 'phone buddies' with Judy Wong at the time and she told me all about that shoot, she never mentioned Carol being there. She mentioned other people being there (JC, Wayne Cody, Kim Brakely etc) but no mention of Carol.
I'm not sure which post you're talking about as to the Little Lies video (this is a very lengthy thread :laugh:) but I know in the first printing of the book, she didn't have it listed as Little Lies at all and later corrected the mistake. People said it was an easy error. I don't see how. When you get your first job in a new career, you tend to remember what it was. You don't confuse the Save Me video with the Little Lies video. Maybe you do after you've been working 10 years and have a massive portfolio. One job fades into the other and you can't remember the title. But I think for your first jobs, the one you put on your resume and take the most pride in, I think the name sticks in your memory.
Also, Carol wasn't writing all of this from memory. She was using her written and audio diaries, from what she said. So, I just don't see how she got some of these details wrong (like the Rolling Stone cover shoot being shot in Lindsey's home). Some say it's the editor's faux pas and not hers. Well . . . They are small factual details that don't matter, but to me when you can't trust those, then the bigger things that can't be fact-checked start lacking in credibility as well.
Michele
michelej1
12-31-2012, 10:09 PM
Also, I would say about Lindsey putting Carol into a house, she says he knows that he had to do that, because if she had sued him she would have gotten a lot more. Yeah, in what galaxy? I would like a list of successful Michelle Triola Marvin palimony suits that she or her lawyer could have used as precedence for milking Lindsey dry. You will recall that Michelle Triola lost and that kind of litigation dropped by the wayside in the years following the case.
Lindsey buys lots of people houses (Cheri and family members). I dont' think he does it because he's afraid they'll sue him.
Michele
KindOfWoman90
12-31-2012, 10:52 PM
Also, I would say about Lindsey putting Carol into a house, she says he knows that he had to do that, because if she had sued him she would have gotten a lot more. Yeah, in what galaxy? I would like a list of successful Michelle Triola Marvin palimony suits that she or her lawyer could have used as precedence for milking Lindsey dry. You will recall that Michelle Triola lost and that kind of litigation dropped by the wayside in the years following the case.
Lindsey buys lots of people houses (Cheri and family members). I dont' think he does it because he's afraid they'll sue him.
Michele
Would you recommend reading CAH's book? I go back and forth about this all the time. The thought of buying what's essentially gossip...I find difficult to justify. Just like any "McDonalds" (analogy I steal from Jim Gaffigan :p), it's definitely tempting. All these stories seem just so insane, I feel the need to read it for that fact alone! Palimony! Is she crazy. :rolleyes:
michelej1
12-31-2012, 11:04 PM
Would you recommend reading CAH's book? I go back and forth about this all the time. The thought of buying what's essentially gossip...I find difficult to justify. Just like any "McDonalds" (analogy I steal from Jim Gaffigan :p), it's definitely tempting. All these stories seem just so insane, I feel the need to read it for that fact alone! Palimony! Is she crazy. :rolleyes:
I would read it, just so you'll know. There's some truth in the pages and coming to your own conclusions about what is believable and what's not is an interesting journey. And since passages from the book continue to crop up in FM discussions, at least you'll have the reference.
Some people write books who have no real ties to the subject, but CAH was definitely there for a long span of time. So, I find her perspective useful. Even when I think she's lying, the things she chooses to lie about are intriguing to me. I mean, the untruths, half truths or shaded descriptions tell a story all their own to me.
Michele
michelej1
12-31-2012, 11:18 PM
As for the palimony, what she actually said was that a lawyer told her that she was Lindsey's common law wife. Any lawyer who actually told her this about California should be disbarred. California does not recognize common law marriage (unless the couple came from a state that does recognize it, which Carol and Lindsey didn't). Furthermore, even if partners sign an agreement saying that they acknowledge each other as husband and wife, that agreement will not be honored under California law.
She said she had a prenuptial agreement with him, but since they never married that would be meaningless. She says she ultimately signed papers that "gave me $2000 a month for rent and groceries for a perod of three years -- and signed away my rights to the fortune that I could most likely have had as his common-law wife in the event of a permanent breakup."
What nonsense.
She says, "in the event of a permanent separation I could have taken him to court if I'd wanted a large settlement of cash. And I undoubtedly would have won, according to my attorney. I'd lived for Lindsey night and day for almost eight years -- made homes for him, took care of him, and actively participated in helping to further his career."
Michele
WildHearted
01-01-2013, 12:00 AM
I'd lived for Lindsey night and day for almost eight years -- made homes for him, took care of him, and actively participated in helping to further his career."
What is it about Lindsey's ex-girlfriends going on about this stuff?
If the language were a bit less technical and a bit more sentimental, I'd swear that came out of Stevie's mouth.
He must really like to be doted on. :D
michelej1
01-01-2013, 12:12 AM
What is it about Lindsey's ex-girlfriends going on about this stuff?
If the language were a bit less technical and a bit more sentimental, I'd swear that came out of Stevie's mouth.
Well, you know Stevie and CAH (and John Wayne) have the same birthdate. So, it's only natural they'd talk alike. You don't want to know everything The Duke did for Lindsey.
Michele
KindOfWoman90
01-02-2013, 12:55 PM
I would read it, just so you'll know. There's some truth in the pages and coming to your own conclusions about what is believable and what's not is an interesting journey. And since passages from the book continue to crop up in FM discussions, at least you'll have the reference.
Some people write books who have no real ties to the subject, but CAH was definitely there for a long span of time. So, I find her perspective useful. Even when I think she's lying, the things she chooses to lie about are intriguing to me. I mean, the untruths, half truths or shaded descriptions tell a story all their own to me.
Michele
Very true. Thanks, I'll have to give it a read at some point.
michelej1
01-02-2013, 03:00 PM
Very true. Thanks, I'll have to give it a read at some point.
And Mick's book too. Although, a good chunk of Mick's book is regurgitated magazine articles about FM. But certain things come up in debate quite often, so it's good to have a background.
Michele
The Catdancer
01-05-2013, 08:05 PM
I'm not sure which post you're talking about as to the Little Lies video (this is a very lengthy thread :laugh:) but I know in the first printing of the book, she didn't have it listed as Little Lies at all and later corrected the mistake. People said it was an easy error. I don't see how. When you get your first job in a new career, you tend to remember what it was. You don't confuse the Save Me video with the Little Lies video. Maybe you do after you've been working 10 years and have a massive portfolio. One job fades into the other and you can't remember the title. But I think for your first jobs, the one you put on your resume and take the most pride in, I think the name sticks in your memory.
Also, Carol wasn't writing all of this from memory. She was using her written and audio diaries, from what she said. So, I just don't see how she got some of these details wrong (like the Rolling Stone cover shoot being shot in Lindsey's home). Some say it's the editor's faux pas and not hers. Well . . . They are small factual details that don't matter, but to me when you can't trust those, then the bigger things that can't be fact-checked start lacking in credibility as well.
Michele
This is a lengthy thread for sure and I really don't want to go back and look for that post :) But I'm sure I read somewhere that she stated she was working on the Save Me video and later corrected it to be the Little Lies video. I agree with you that you don't make a mistake like that especially since it was her first job in years. Also when you write a book, do the research and re-read what you wrote before you publish it :rolleyes:
I'll never read it just as I will never read the book by Ken Caillat. I don't want to read about about "Lindsey choked me" or "Stevie acted like a spoiled brat" etc. That stuff is private and if they want the public to know about they'll talk about it.
The Catdancer
01-05-2013, 08:09 PM
Also, I would say about Lindsey putting Carol into a house, she says he knows that he had to do that, because if she had sued him she would have gotten a lot more. Yeah, in what galaxy? I would like a list of successful Michelle Triola Marvin palimony suits that she or her lawyer could have used as precedence for milking Lindsey dry. You will recall that Michelle Triola lost and that kind of litigation dropped by the wayside in the years following the case.
Lindsey buys lots of people houses (Cheri and family members). I dont' think he does it because he's afraid they'll sue him.
Michele
Didn't he buy Richard a house/condo? I seem to recall that he bought him a house, a car, clothes etc.
michelej1
01-05-2013, 10:36 PM
I'll never read it just as I will never read the book by Ken Caillat. I don't want to read about about "Lindsey choked me" or "Stevie acted like a spoiled brat" etc. That stuff is private and if they want the public to know about they'll talk about it.
Well, if someone strangled you and you want to talk about it I think it's your perogative. In my view, it's your story to tell, more than theirs. My thing is, I don't believe some of the stories that have been told.
Michele
Wynne
11-20-2013, 11:24 PM
I have a question about this book. I do not have time to go through all of the past pages right now, even though I will, but I am reading this Carol Anne Harris book. I found several things that were oddly a lie. So to make sure I am not crazy can someone confirm a few things for me? First of all she talks about the Grammy incident where Lindsey was stoned and went up the steps and she claims he was all alone and his legs were all rubber band, and the band stood back and watched him and did not help. if I remember correct, I saw this footage and saw the rubber band legs going up the steps but Stevie was right beside him guiding him up. Is this true? Next weird thing I found. The Rolling Stone cover shoot at Lindsey's house. She mentioned nothing about Lindsey and Stevie remaining in bed kissing after the shoot was over. However in another book, someone claims they did. Also I had the pleasure of meeting Stevie and saw the rest of the band at a rehearsal. My Mother's friend Barbara invited my Mom to go to the rehearsal. I got to tag along. I never spoke to anyone except Stevie and a few of her female friends who sat with us for about an hour and I took everything in, even they way she smelled. My Mom and Barbara told me about the dynamics of the group etc and I sort of understood at such a young age, but anyway, at one point I had to use the little girls room, I was told to go down the hall blah blah, well when I turned the corner, there was Stevie up against the wall and Lindsey was kissing her. I had no idea or clue Lindsey was dating this Carol girl. I was young and just happened to be there. Over the years I of course loved FM and Stevie and feel very lucky to have met her and I remember everything she said to me. In Carol's book she made it seem like Lindsey was over Stevie. Well he was not if they were kissing in a hall way during the Tusk rehearsal. Also why does she keep saying "we" like she was part of the band? She claims "The Chain" is "our" anthem?! I should have read this book a long time ago. I found it very strange how she forces the reader to keep thinking she was part of FM and bragging about being in the circle. I have photos with Stevie on this night I met her and will post them when I figure out how to up load them to a specific size I was told. I just want to know about the Grammy incident and the Rolling Stone Cover incident and if anyone else knows of any times where Stevie and Lindsey hooked up after they broke up, because they sure did the night I was there. Thank you for any help with my questions.
Sanne2
11-21-2013, 05:01 AM
^^^There are several inconsistencies in the CAH book, I wouldn't call them "lies", but she gets stuff like dates, names and places wrong (the Lindsey incident didn't happen at the Grammys but at the American Music Awards). She did just as much (if not more) coke as they did and maybe because of that her memory is foggy. Also she has a weird persective of things that happened, I do believe that she believes she was part of the band (hence the "we"), she was always there, wherever Lindsey was she was too. But it seems she was a pretty naïve girl, there was obviously stuff happening that she missed. I think she really wanted to believe that Lindsey was over Stevie, but there have been rumours of them hooking up during Tusk, Mirage and even The Dance.
MoonSister75
11-21-2013, 06:39 AM
been down one time, been down two times, been down three times, been down four times............been down four hundred times....and I'm NEVER going back again? :xoxo:
brickney723
11-21-2013, 09:17 AM
I just read the book too- I borrowed it from the library. It was a waste of time! I'm not sure if she's in almost unbelievable denial (even 30 years later) or if she was being purposefully misleading. I was dying to know how she reacted to the lyrics of his Tusk songs! She obviously had to know who they were about.:shrug: She just doesn't discuss it- except for that one song she thinks may be about her.
CADreaming
11-21-2013, 03:44 PM
But it seems she was a pretty naïve girl, there was obviously stuff happening that she missed. I think she really wanted to believe that Lindsey was over Stevie...
"The big thing, though, was that Lindsey still loved Stevie. I know he did. Though all the time he was with me, he never stopped loving her." -CAH 2007
SteveMacD
11-21-2013, 04:19 PM
First of all she talks about the Grammy incident where Lindsey was stoned and went up the steps and she claims he was all alone and his legs were all rubber band, and the band stood back and watched him and did not help. if I remember correct, I saw this footage and saw the rubber band legs going up the steps but Stevie was right beside him guiding him up. Is this true?
No. It was Christine that helped him up the steps.
Also why does she keep saying "we" like she was part of the band? She claims "The Chain" is "our" anthem?! I should have read this book a long time ago. I found it very strange how she forces the reader to keep thinking she was part of FM and bragging about being in the circle.
That's not uncommon. Not having read the book, I can only speculate that she wasn’t implying that she was in the band, but rather she was a part of the machinery on some level, and she was saying that "The Chain" was really the anthem of the machinery of Fleetwood Mac.
As for "bragging about being in the circle," as somebody who’s in the circle of a popular indie band, I can say that it consumes enough of one's time that there’s really not much else left to talk about, and what is left usually makes for a boring read.
lovethemac1
11-21-2013, 04:45 PM
Originally Posted by Wynne View Post
First of all she talks about the Grammy incident where Lindsey was stoned and went up the steps and she claims he was all alone and his legs were all rubber band, and the band stood back and watched him and did not help. if I remember correct, I saw this footage and saw the rubber band legs going up the steps but Stevie was right beside him guiding him up. Is this true?
No. It was Christine that helped him up the steps.
i saw that you tube video a while ago, and i haven't been able to find it for the last year or so. does anyone know where it might be?
CADreaming
11-21-2013, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by Wynne View Post
First of all she talks about the Grammy incident where Lindsey was stoned and went up the steps and she claims he was all alone and his legs were all rubber band, and the band stood back and watched him and did not help. if I remember correct, I saw this footage and saw the rubber band legs going up the steps but Stevie was right beside him guiding him up. Is this true?
No. It was Christine that helped him up the steps.
i saw that you tube video a while ago, and i haven't been able to find it for the last year or so. does anyone know where it might be?
Here ya go:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/lFysVmUPmy4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Funny, the AwardsShow youtube channel has edited this out of their version. LOL. Come on. It's hilarious.
Wynne
11-21-2013, 06:35 PM
YES YES YES I am so excited I KNEW it was Stevie!!!!!!!!!!!! Carol did NOT cover the incident the correct way at all!!!!!!!!!!! This has bothered me for a week. THANK you for posting this. I am so happy right now. Carol's book is interesting however it's all based on her illusion's. I have no idea why I wss uptight about this but I was, now I just had a huge sigh of relief!!!!!!!!!!
lovethemac1
11-21-2013, 06:46 PM
ooooohhhhhhhh, that is just so darn funny. i can't stop watching him all wobbly. stevie saved his ass though, as she grabs him and hauls him back. and then he is holding on to her and mick for dear life. thank you very much for finding and posting that.
lovethemac1
11-21-2013, 06:58 PM
YES YES YES I am so excited I KNEW it was Stevie!!!!!!!!!!!! Carol did NOT cover the incident the correct way at all!!!!!!!!!!! This has bothered me for a week. THANK you for posting this. I am so happy right now. Carol's book is interesting however it's all based on her illusion's. I have no idea why I wss uptight about this but I was, now I just had a huge sigh of relief!!!!!!!!!!
I agree. I found the book really interesting. Whether or not it was completely accurate, for those few hours that I was reading it, it felt like I was inside the Fleetwood Mac machine. Or at least as close as this little Canadian is going to get to any of them. And that in itself was fun for a complete Fleetwood Mac fan like me. I also did really like being able to analyse the facts and see if I could disprove any of it from all the other information available on line, other books, etc. Which was why I found that video a long time ago and was able to disprove to myself what CAH said in that part of the book. It was like a big Fleetwood Mac trivia quest! So, although I don't like untrue things being said about them, it was still so interesting to read.
Wynne
11-21-2013, 07:15 PM
So if Carol left that out of the book about Stevie helping him up the stairs and she must have access to the footage then she left out the part about the Rolling Stone cover shoot were Stevie and Lindsey stayed there kissing, she clearly is in denial about how very very much in love he was with Stevie. I think Carol wanted to believe she was "the one" Now I don't know what to believe in the book. She put favorable light on Stevie because she had to. She could not just diss her and sound bitter and jealous. I believe Lindsey used Carol to be honest. I also know for a fact he was still hooking up with Stevie while he and carol dated. I wish I would have read this long ago and could have been a part of this thread. All the old posts on this board will keep me up for months. I am furious I did not join ages ago! I wonder if Stevie will write a book? I hear different takes on it by her over the years. I never knew what a shipper was until last night. Sadly, I am a shipper.
CADreaming
11-21-2013, 10:59 PM
So if Carol left that out of the book about Stevie helping him up the stairs and she must have access to the footage then she left out the part about the Rolling Stone cover shoot were Stevie and Lindsey stayed there kissing, she clearly is in denial about how very very much in love he was with Stevie. I think Carol wanted to believe she was "the one" Now I don't know what to believe in the book. She put favorable light on Stevie because she had to. She could not just diss her and sound bitter and jealous. I believe Lindsey used Carol to be honest. I also know for a fact he was still hooking up with Stevie while he and carol dated. I wish I would have read this long ago and could have been a part of this thread. All the old posts on this board will keep me up for months. I am furious I did not join ages ago! I wonder if Stevie will write a book? I hear different takes on it by her over the years. I never knew what a shipper was until last night. Sadly, I am a shipper.
Aww don't be sad. Thanks for sharing your tusk tour experience!
Wynne
11-22-2013, 02:31 AM
I have not been able to pick the book back up in about a week now. I am scared to read on and discover things I do not like or that pisses me off. Even looking at the photos, I notice she put pretty decent photos of herself up but not ONE of Stevie. My Mom so lied to me when I was younger about Stevie. She did not want to shatter my little girl illusions of her. She used to say "Oh Stevie would never do drugs or drink alcohol or smoke and probably eats healthy food and blah blah" she later told me it was a ploy to get me to eat better and never do drugs or drink. It failed because I did all the things Stevie did. I have however finished Mick's book, it was a quick read. Very interesting. Ken's book was more technical and did not have to much gossip in the book. I did not really care for his sex life or his dog stories. However it gave me an insight to their genius. Anyone have any other books "worth" reading on FM subject?
I have a question about this book. I do not have time to go through all of the past pages right now, even though I will, but I am reading this Carol Anne Harris book. I found several things that were oddly a lie. So to make sure I am not crazy can someone confirm a few things for me? First of all she talks about the Grammy incident where Lindsey was stoned and went up the steps and she claims he was all alone and his legs were all rubber band, and the band stood back and watched him and did not help. if I remember correct, I saw this footage and saw the rubber band legs going up the steps but Stevie was right beside him guiding him up. Is this true? Next weird thing I found. The Rolling Stone cover shoot at Lindsey's house. She mentioned nothing about Lindsey and Stevie remaining in bed kissing after the shoot was over. However in another book, someone claims they did. Also I had the pleasure of meeting Stevie and saw the rest of the band at a rehearsal. My Mother's friend Barbara invited my Mom to go to the rehearsal. I got to tag along. I never spoke to anyone except Stevie and a few of her female friends who sat with us for about an hour and I took everything in, even they way she smelled. My Mom and Barbara told me about the dynamics of the group etc and I sort of understood at such a young age, but anyway, at one point I had to use the little girls room, I was told to go down the hall blah blah, well when I turned the corner, there was Stevie up against the wall and Lindsey was kissing her. I had no idea or clue Lindsey was dating this Carol girl. I was young and just happened to be there. Over the years I of course loved FM and Stevie and feel very lucky to have met her and I remember everything she said to me. In Carol's book she made it seem like Lindsey was over Stevie. Well he was not if they were kissing in a hall way during the Tusk rehearsal. Also why does she keep saying "we" like she was part of the band? She claims "The Chain" is "our" anthem?! I should have read this book a long time ago. I found it very strange how she forces the reader to keep thinking she was part of FM and bragging about being in the circle. I have photos with Stevie on this night I met her and will post them when I figure out how to up load them to a specific size I was told. I just want to know about the Grammy incident and the Rolling Stone Cover incident and if anyone else knows of any times where Stevie and Lindsey hooked up after they broke up, because they sure did the night I was there. Thank you for any help with my questions.
Thank you thank you thank you for sharing all this!!!
What did Stevie smell like? We've all heard about perfumes she wears or has wore in the past, but you mentioned you remembered the way she smelled... Do tell! Call me a freaky person, but I've always imagined she smells wonderful, and ohhh just to have a wiff myself would be awesome!
As for Stevie and Lindsey hooking up then, and over the years, I personally believe they did... why wouldn't they??? I mean, when you love someone the way Lindsey loved Stevie (however sometimes I wonder if she loved him as much back) there seems to always be a connection. When you spend so much time together, have the kind of crazy passion they did for each other, and were good lovers (like Stevie has stated in some interview) it can be hard to let that go...in my opinion, it can be hard to make clear boundaries with a man, especially when you enjoy him...in one way or another. I believe Stevie always knew she could have Lindsey if and when she wanted him. That door was always open until it wasn't....probably years down the line. She was young and a hottie, with many many men who desired her and more importantly she loves a "great romance," So what if some of them overlapped? These are things about Stevie that have made me love her so much, mostly because I can relate (to the relationship stuff, being in love or lust, struggles with drugs and alcohol/trips to rehab, etc).
Anywho, that's just my two cents yall!
I haven't posted in a while but your post really sparked my interest!
Can't wait to see your pictures with Stevie!
Wynne
11-22-2013, 02:54 PM
I made two posts because I did not know how to navigate this website. So the answer you ask is under the thread Rumours era Book question, I guess if you click on my name it will show all my posts and you can see what I wrote. The smell was a smell I can not describe and I am a big perfume girl. The closest thing I could compare it to is some type of incense maybe? Musky yet floral and hew hair smelled like wheat, very clean. She did have the smell of smoke and alcohol due to everyone smoking in the room and drinking. But underneath all that it was just a unusual scent I have never been able to describe. Maybe it was not even perfume. Have you ever wlked into a boutique where they sell candles and incense? That is sort of the smell. Sweet with musky fragrance. The closest I ever got is a perfume called Celestine. I stumbled across it in a boutique and bought every bottle. When I wear it, people always stop me and ask what I am wearing.
michelej1
11-22-2013, 06:23 PM
In the Stevie forum they were talking about her perfume and talking about gardenias and the different tones and notes, strong to light. It's worth a read.
Michele
Stormwind
11-22-2013, 08:45 PM
Here ya go:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/lFysVmUPmy4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Funny, the AwardsShow youtube channel has edited this out of their version. LOL. Come on. It's hilarious.
Wow my youtube channel is getting famous :thumbsup:
The funny thing of this book is, in the whole mess that was the band at the time, how Carol Ann tries hard to be a writer: the book isn't that great per se.
nicole21290
11-22-2013, 09:19 PM
Wow my youtube channel is getting famous :thumbsup:
The funny thing of this book is, in the whole mess that was the band at the time, how Carol Ann tries hard to be a writer: the book isn't that great per se.
Per se?! At all, frankly. Mostly it was like not even very good fanfiction. I actually found myself cringing at some of the dialogue and, CAH, we get it but you really don't need to have Lindsey calling you angel every time he opens his mouth...
CADreaming
11-22-2013, 11:58 PM
Per se?! At all, frankly. Mostly it was like not even very good fanfiction. I actually found myself cringing at some of the dialogue and, CAH, we get it but you really don't need to have Lindsey calling you angel every time he opens his mouth...
:lol::lol::lol:
:angel:
Wynne
11-23-2013, 12:54 AM
I cringed every time the whole angel, angel face, Oh baby talk went on. I am sorry I just don't think Lindsey acted that way. he seemed aloof and self centered when he was younger. The romantic baby talk doesn't seem like him. Carol did find a way to figure out how to imprint her person on FM. she picked out a woman's silk jacket for Lindsey to wear for the photo shoot. Plus she ran down a block and got a script filled for Lindsey. I don't buy she stayed up all night watching Lindsey's health, she was just coked up and could not sleep. Why did she record all this stuff. I picked the book back up and here she is recording conversations. Who does that? I really dislike this woman, and where is she today? . I hope she understood that a man is clearly going to trash talk his ex to his new girlfriend. He may have trashed talked stevie to Carol, but poor Carol, believed it. Also what is this story about Carol stating someone was going to make her photo the biggest photo on the album sleeve? Where is it?!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SteveMacD
11-23-2013, 01:02 AM
"She's so crazy..."
michelej1
11-23-2013, 04:08 AM
I cringed every time the whole angel, angel face, Oh baby talk went on. I am sorry I just don't think Lindsey acted that way. he seemed aloof and self centered when he was younger.
In the video footage with Carol, he was anything but aloof. They were making out in some of the band press conferences. If I was sitting next to them, I might have looked at them and vomited. He was always snuggled very close to her and I'm sure he was calling her all sorts of pet names.
This is a guy who will pantomime skating with his girlfriend, when he's in love and in a good mood.
Michele
nicole21290
11-23-2013, 04:18 AM
In the video footage with Carol, he was anything but aloof. They were making out in some of the band press conferences. If I was sitting next to them, I might have looked at them and vomited. He was always snuggled very close to her and I'm sure he was calling her all sorts of pet names.
This is a guy who will pantomime skating with his girlfriend, when he's in love and in a good mood.
Michele
I may have done the same re. the vomiting. I certainly did a good deal of eye-rolling when he was kissing her in front of the camera. Mostly because he was keeping an eye open and on the camera to make sure said kissing was being filmed...
This is also a guy who will pantomime skating with his (ex)girlfriend, when he's onstage and in a good mood. #neutralitymyarse
vivfox
11-23-2013, 10:06 AM
Plus she ran down a block and got a script filled for Lindsey.
Her description of this episode is what most stood out in the memory of me reading the book. I crack up every time I think about it. In my mind I see the rain coming down against the backdrop of some cement building with Carol Anne running down the street and blood trickling down her leg and droplets all over the sidewalk, leaving her DNA in the streets of Philadelphia.
CADreaming
11-23-2013, 12:58 PM
Her description of this episode is what most stood out in the memory of me reading the book. I crack up every time I think about it. In my mind I see the rain coming down against the backdrop of some cement building with Carol Anne running down the street and blood trickling down her leg and droplets all over the sidewalk, leaving her DNA in the streets of Philadelphia.
:lol::lol::lol:
Awesome scene! How dramatic!
i think if even a small part of abuse allegations is true, the woman had every right in the world to write a book and air that out, as a therapy.
there may be tons of inaccuracies and the book may be horribly written (and the woman may be far from the sharpest knife in a drawer), but that doesn't justify all the hate i'm reading in this thread.
just my 0.02.
michelej1
11-23-2013, 02:23 PM
i think if even a small part of abuse allegations is true, the woman had every right in the world to write a book and air that out, as a therapy.
The problem is, when people think part of the book is comprised of grandiose delusion, then they won't believe the part of it that is true, if any.
She has every right to talk about any abuse she suffered, but since she has mangled what might have happened which what seems unlikely to have happened, people don't believe anything. That's the same thing that happened with the Warren Commission. Some of its findings were probably accurate, but they left out so much evidence that no one believes ANY of their conclusions and have inserted wild theories in their place.
This was what I was trying to suggest to Wendy actually in another forum. She may have legitimate gripes, but if she combines them with incredible accusations, no one will believe or recognize the truth when it does come out. You can't say things we KNOW are not true and then expect us to think the things we don't know about are true based on only your word for it, when you've given us reason to doubt your word.
As far as people hating Carol, that will happen. When you write an autobiography, you put your character up for review. I've read many celebrity autobiographies (Katharine Hepburn's comes to mind) that I started because I admired them and ended up disliking them when the book was over because they turned out to be rather horrid people. With Hepburn, I loved her acting and hate Spencer Tracy and considered her to be a martyr to him, really. So, I jumped into the book as a fan of hers, ready to learn more things to admire. But then I read her memoirs and pretty much concluded that she was a jerk, based on the tone of the book.
I think that's a fair assessment. When you write a book about yourself, people are going to judge whether or not that self is someone they like.
Michele
michelej1
11-23-2013, 03:47 PM
This is also a guy who will pantomime skating with his (ex)girlfriend, when he's onstage and in a good mood. #neutralitymyarse
Yes, but do you remember the old footage of SnL from the seventies when they were doing that? I didn't know what it was when I first saw the old video. In fact I almost thought they were pretending to walk down the aisle. But Stevie had his hand and he was going, "what do you want now?" Then he started gliding with her. It would be 30 years before more recent tours put that gesture into context and we learned it was skating.
Michele
nicole21290
11-23-2013, 06:09 PM
Yes, but do you remember the old footage of SnL from the seventies when they were doing that? I didn't know what it was when I first saw the old video. In fact I almost thought they were pretending to walk down the aisle. But Stevie had his hand and he was going, "what do you want now?" Then he started gliding with her. It would be 30 years before more recent tours put that gesture into context and we learned it was skating.
Michele
http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/th_490017ec64561e80a3d4f8d2ea2b8a0e_zps5894254f.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/albums/t529/nicolebarker1990/?action=view¤t=490017ec64561e80a3d4f8d2ea2b8a0e_zps5894254f.jpg)
Ha, yeah, I'm aware of that. I actually saw the 2009 footage BEFORE the 1976 (?) footage, somewhat unbelievably so that was cool. Was just making the point that it's not just 1970sin-love-with-gf-thus-acting-close-and-cute-and-in-a-good-mood Lindsey who did/does stuff like that. 2000sloves-other-half-thus-acting-close-and-cute-and-in-a-good-mood Lindsey apparently does as well. :D
Wynne
11-23-2013, 07:56 PM
OH MY GOD there is footage of Lindsey making out with this woman Carol? EWwww, sorry I just can't imagine it. This woman has zero personality. I guess I am judging her because when you're young and have a wonderful romantic image in your head about two people, it's hard to see them with another person. Even more hard when the person is boring, no self esteem and was clearly just a groupie girlfriend that Lindsey used as a Mommy figure. The song Go Insane, when he says "She's a lot like you" is he comparing her to Stevie?
Deeshere
11-23-2013, 07:57 PM
I have a question about this book. I do not have time to go through all of the past pages right now, even though I will, but I am reading this Carol Anne Harris book. I found several things that were oddly a lie. So to make sure I am not crazy can someone confirm a few things for me? First of all she talks about the Grammy incident where Lindsey was stoned and went up the steps and she claims he was all alone and his legs were all rubber band, and the band stood back and watched him and did not help. if I remember correct, I saw this footage and saw the rubber band legs going up the steps but Stevie was right beside him guiding him up. Is this true? Next weird thing I found. The Rolling Stone cover shoot at Lindsey's house. She mentioned nothing about Lindsey and Stevie remaining in bed kissing after the shoot was over. However in another book, someone claims they did. Also I had the pleasure of meeting Stevie and saw the rest of the band at a rehearsal. My Mother's friend Barbara invited my Mom to go to the rehearsal. I got to tag along. I never spoke to anyone except Stevie and a few of her female friends who sat with us for about an hour and I took everything in, even they way she smelled. My Mom and Barbara told me about the dynamics of the group etc and I sort of understood at such a young age, but anyway, at one point I had to use the little girls room, I was told to go down the hall blah blah, well when I turned the corner, there was Stevie up against the wall and Lindsey was kissing her. I had no idea or clue Lindsey was dating this Carol girl. I was young and just happened to be there. Over the years I of course loved FM and Stevie and feel very lucky to have met her and I remember everything she said to me. In Carol's book she made it seem like Lindsey was over Stevie. Well he was not if they were kissing in a hall way during the Tusk rehearsal. Also why does she keep saying "we" like she was part of the band? She claims "The Chain" is "our" anthem?! I should have read this book a long time ago. I found it very strange how she forces the reader to keep thinking she was part of FM and bragging about being in the circle. I have photos with Stevie on this night I met her and will post them when I figure out how to up load them to a specific size I was told. I just want to know about the Grammy incident and the Rolling Stone Cover incident and if anyone else knows of any times where Stevie and Lindsey hooked up after they broke up, because they sure did the night I was there. Thank you for any help with my questions.
Hello, glad you joined the ledge. Your story is great and it goes to show you how much of an impression Stevie and the band made on you, when you were young because your story is very detailed. FYI Stevie has said the perfume she uses is Fresca not sure what brand it is though.
I don't doubt you saw Stevie and Lindsey making out in the hall. It's been rumored for along time that the two of them were hooking up off and on at least up until 82-83.
I don't know if you've gotten to the part in the book where Carol claims Stevie grabbed Carol during a show (when they were both off stage) and started screaming at Carol that she would never allow Lindsey to marry her (which I believe she really did do). Carol HAD TO tell Lindsey about it (drama queen) even though she says Stevie was completely stoned when she did it then Lindsey supposedly was "upset" about it and said he would talk to Stevie. When they all get to the hotel Lindsey and Stevie head off to HER ROOM to "discuss the incident" and Carol then admits Lindsey was GONE FOR SEVERAL HOURS. I mean how long does it take to tell you ex girlfriend to lay off your new girlfriend and why would you feel the need to go to your ex girlfriends room to have a discussion? There were a lot of comments by fans like "Carol should have check Lindsey for rug burns when he got back to there room", so what you saw was no surprise.
As to Carol's memory, I believe Carol really did love Lindsey (not sure if Lindsey truly loved Carol, but I think he tried to) and wanted to believe he no longer cared or loved Stevie, but I did read that when Carol was doing press for the book she admitted that she knew Lindsey still loved Stevie no matter how crazy Stevie made him and that she knew Lindsey in fact loved Stevie the entire time she was with him. However, Carol failed to mention this fact in her book.
I did not see her book as bashing Stevie, like some fans say she did. To me she tried to exclude Stevie from Lindsey life as much as possible. Such as the Rolling Stones cover incident, she never mentions it and in fact makes it seem like it never happened (I think she wished it never happened) she also doesn't mention how Lindsey reacted when he found out Stevie and Mick were having an affair. Through out the book she keeps saying she wonders when Lindsey will find out, and if Lindsey knows about the affair and then....Nothing...she just drops it. Which makes me think he was pretty upset about it. Lindsey claims he was calm when he found out and didn't really care, but Mick and Stevie have said otherwise, they've both said the tension within the band once Lindsey found out about the affair was (if possible) even worse. Carol also completely drops the story of Robin's death. She says that Stevie called Lindsey right after Robin died crying but then again drops the story. She never says what Lindsey said or did after he learned about Robin's death which again makes me believe Lindsey may have gone to Stevie and tried to comfort her in some way or maybe he just tried to be there for Stevie in someway. So what I saw Carol doing was a lot of history redacting (or ignoring history) where Stevie was involved and anytime a story just drops off or it's barely mentioned, I assume Stevie must have been involved in it and Carol doesn't want to talk or think about it.
As to Carol recording conversations, to me that speaks VOLUMES. If you plan on spending the rest of your life with this man then why record thoughts, stories and conversations for later, UNLESS you think it may not last and that you might possibly write a book about your experiences later on. Carol would have known how private Lindsey is and that he would NEVER have approved her writing a story about him and the band if they stayed together. (IMO) I think Lindsey finding these tapes were the beginning of the end for them, because after that he seem to lose interest in Carol. He didn't require her to be with him 24/7 and that she go on tour with him anymore. He was OK with her modeling and doing other things even though he stayed with her for several more years.
As for Carol's claims that Lindsey violent attacked her for no reason, I am not sure what to think about that. I think some of it must have been true, because Stevie has admitted Lindsey choked her during a fight and Ken Calliat claims Lindsey choked him for erasing some guitar tracks. So it does seem she maybe telling the truth, but I don't believe the attack were unprovoked or that she doesn't know why they happened like she claims. I read that Carol's coke habit was pretty bad and some people have claimed she would spend 3000.00 dollars a week (of Lindsey's money) on Coke and be gone for 2-3 days at at time at parties. Which I think goes along with the story she tells about Dennis Wilson where she says was with him and the band at the studio getting stoned, then everyone (except Lindsey) goes over to Christine's house to continue the party and then the next afternoon she and Dennis go (by themselves) to get party supplies for Christine and end up in Dennis motel room "talking" (don't believe that) for several hours before heading back to Christine's house. To me that was a fight with Lindsey just waiting to happen and I'm sure there are many, many more she neglected to tell us about because she either may not remember them well (she was too stoned) or again, doesn't want to talk about them. It seemed to me the only person she cared to put in a bad light was Lindsey while trying to paint herself as a martyr/victim.
michelej1
11-23-2013, 10:06 PM
OH MY GOD there is footage of Lindsey making out with this woman Carol? EWwww, sorry I just can't imagine it. This woman has zero personality. I guess I am judging her because when you're young and have a wonderful romantic image in your head about two people, it's hard to see them with another person. Even more hard when the person is boring, no self esteem and was clearly just a groupie girlfriend that Lindsey used as a Mommy figure.
Lindsey was with Carol for seven years. I can't believe she was nothing more than a groupie.
As for her being a mommy figure ... I find that an odd way of describing Carol. If you mean that he wanted someone to nurture him, I'm not really sure if that was her role, although she does say she took care of him when he was sick and FM didn't care about him. I don't believe that FM didn't care about him, btw. I think they were concerned.
Michele
bombaysaffires
11-24-2013, 12:48 AM
1970sin-love-with-gf-thus-acting-close-and-cute-and-in-a-good-mood Lindsey who did/does stuff like that.
well, Mama *is* sporting her new boobs in this clip also.... just sayin'....;)
Sapphire Girl
11-24-2013, 01:06 AM
I may have done the same re. the vomiting. I certainly did a good deal of eye-rolling when he was kissing her in front of the camera. Mostly because he was keeping an eye open and on the camera to make sure said kissing was being filmed...
This is also a guy who will pantomime skating with his (ex)girlfriend, when he's onstage and in a good mood. #neutralitymyarse
Interesting he felt the need to make sure it was visually documented.
Deeshere
11-24-2013, 01:49 AM
OH MY GOD there is footage of Lindsey making out with this woman Carol? EWwww, sorry I just can't imagine it. This woman has zero personality. I guess I am judging her because when you're young and have a wonderful romantic image in your head about two people, it's hard to see them with another person. Even more hard when the person is boring, no self esteem and was clearly just a groupie girlfriend that Lindsey used as a Mommy figure. The song Go Insane, when he says "She's a lot like you" is he comparing her to Stevie?
You can watch the videos of Lindsey and carol making out on YouTube. Just search for fleetwood mac rumours tour behind the scenes. He and Carol were all over each other, but honestly for Lindsey part I'm think it was done so publicly for several reasons 1) he was trying to get back at Stevie for leaving him, and most likely trying to make her jealous. 2) It helped his ego to have a woman fawning all over him publicly or otherwise 3) It showed fans that he was over Stevie and onto greener pastures, that's why I think he's kissing carol with one eye open trying to figure out where the camera is. As to using Carol as a mommy, I think that maybe over simplelefying it a bit too much. Stevie says Lindsey hates to be alone and Lindsey has said in the past that he never really had male friends just girlfriends, so Carol was there all the time so Lindsey would not be alone. Kinda a friend/girlfriend/companion. Though Lindsey seems to be overcoming his fear of being alone in the last few years.
michelej1
11-24-2013, 02:54 AM
Stevie says Lindsey hates to be alone and Lindsey has said in the past that he never really had male friends just girlfriends, so Carol was there all the time so Lindsey would not be alone.
But Richard came back and was living with Lindsey and Carol, so Lindsey wouldn't have been alone if Carol had left. And Carol mentioned another male friend of Lindsey's that was with them when they got robbed that time. When Stevie left that time for 6 months, Richard was still there too.
Michele
michelej1
11-24-2013, 07:28 AM
Interesting he felt the need to make sure it was visually documented.
I'm sure he kissed her when the cameras weren't rolling as well.
Even Lindsey's brother, who was not a fan of Carol's in the end, said that the first years they were together seemed great and he had never seen Lindsey so happy.
Michele
brickney723
11-24-2013, 08:36 AM
I'm sure he kissed her when the cameras weren't rolling as well.
Even Lindsey's brother, who was not a fan of Carol's in the end, said that the first years they were together seemed great and he had never seen Lindsey so happy.
Michele
Though.. it's funny because I just saw a youtube video of Lindsey telling someone in the audience at one of his solo shows how unhappy specifically the years from 1977-1987 were for him.
Though.. it's funny because I just saw a youtube video of Lindsey telling someone in the audience at one of his solo shows how unhappy specifically the years from 1977-1987 were for him.
can you link us up?
love seeing vids of Lindsey that i never saw before!
i don't think she meant literally "alone" - being afraid to be alone like having to sleep with the nightlight if nobody's around. :lol:
the way i understand it is - alone as having nobody in your life at specific times, nobody to come back home to. Lindsey has definitely not been alone in the last decade and a half, since he started a family.
and at the time he was with Carol, they most of the time had one or more of his male friends living or at least constantly hanging out with them - including Richard.
same when he was living with Stevie, they had tons of struggling musicians around in their apartment at any given time it seemed.
so i don''t see "he had to have a gf so that he's not alone" argument being very valid.
brickney723
11-24-2013, 10:06 AM
can you link us up?
love seeing vids of Lindsey that i never saw before!
Sure! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s5o3XSmtIQ
Sure! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s5o3XSmtIQ
thanks!
ha, that was when he was talking to our own Goddess and her husband, about the Buckingham family logo t-shirt.
according to everybody who was at that Council Bluffs show (lots of people from TL!), it was one of the best Lindsey solo shows ever. clubs seem to really fit his raunchy solo style, more than theaters and definitely more than those restaurant-style places he hates (but we love - like Chicago Winery!).
CADreaming
11-24-2013, 11:07 AM
What was the logo?
What was the logo?
something with bulls i think? i guess he was selling those shirts as OOTC tour shirts at one point? hope Goddess chimes in, or Viv or redtulip who were all there.
Lindsfan
11-24-2013, 11:56 AM
What was the logo?
something with bulls i think? i guess he was selling those shirts as OOTC tour shirts at one point? hope Goddess chimes in, or Viv or redtulip who were all there.
It was a pig/hog bucking like a horse - a Bucking ham...
http://i42.tinypic.com/12305xe.jpg
Lindsfan
11-24-2013, 12:02 PM
i think if even a small part of abuse allegations is true, the woman had every right in the world to write a book and air that out, as a therapy.
there may be tons of inaccuracies and the book may be horribly written (and the woman may be far from the sharpest knife in a drawer), but that doesn't justify all the hate i'm reading in this thread.
just my 0.02.
Well said. Thank you. It's truly amazing to me that all that some people take away after reading this book, is that Stevie was slighted.
OH MY GOD there is footage of Lindsey making out with this woman Carol? EWwww, sorry I just can't imagine it. This woman has zero personality. I guess I am judging her because when you're young and have a wonderful romantic image in your head about two people, it's hard to see them with another person. Even more hard when the person is boring, no self esteem and was clearly just a groupie girlfriend that Lindsey used as a Mommy figure. The song Go Insane, when he says "She's a lot like you" is he comparing her to Stevie?
Yeah, people can be unrealistic like that when they're very young. I'm probably a lot older than you, because it doesn't disgust me to see a guy kiss his girlfrined :shrug:
Also, I'm curious as to how you know that Carol has no personality? How much time have you spent with her?
As to Carol's memory, I believe Carol really did love Lindsey (not sure if Lindsey truly loved Carol, but I think he tried to) and wanted to believe he no longer cared or loved Stevie, but I did read that when Carol was doing press for the book she admitted that she knew Lindsey still loved Stevie no matter how crazy Stevie made him and that she knew Lindsey in fact loved Stevie the entire time she was with him. However, Carol failed to mention this fact in her book.
I agree. I think Carol and Lindsey both loved each other. As Michele stated, they were together for seven years. Carol's love for Lindsey came through very clearly in the book. I don't get why people think that Lindsey can't love Carol and still have "a thing" for Stevie. People do it all the time. It's possible to feel love for two people at once, and it's certainly possible to be in love with Carol, and still have strong feelings for Stevie. Those feelings don't have to be mutually exclusive.
I did not see her book as bashing Stevie, like some fans say she did.
I don't either. The book is about her life with Lindsey, and about her life with FM - including Stevie. Some good...some bad.
As to Carol recording conversations, to me that speaks VOLUMES. If you plan on spending the rest of your life with this man then why record thoughts, stories and conversations for later, UNLESS you think it may not last and that you might possibly write a book about your experiences later on. Carol would have known how private Lindsey is and that he would NEVER have approved her writing a story about him and the band if they stayed together.
That's a really good point. It's a weird thing to do, and Lindsey being upset about it isn't at all surprising.
As for Carol's claims that Lindsey violent attacked her for no reason, I am not sure what to think about that. I think some of it must have been true, because Stevie has admitted Lindsey choked her during a fight and Ken Calliat claims Lindsey choked him for erasing some guitar tracks.
Not to pick on you, because, I actually hear that a lot, that Stevie said Lindsey choked her. I don't follow Stevie, obviously, but I don't recall ever hearing her say that. I recall her saying when Lindsey said he was quitting the band, that she became angry, and that she could be scary, herself (or something to that effect), and that she lunged at Lindsey, which made him mad, and he went after her, chasing her through Chris's house, and throwing her on the car hood. I also recall John saying there was a big fight or argument, and making a choking motion with his hands. He didn't say who was choking whom. A lot of people assume it was Lindsey choking Stevie, but do we know that for a fact? If she really said that, could someone please share the source. It's also worth noting that John was (reportedly) violent and scary when he drank, as well. Didn't Chris say she and Stevie hid in closets or something when the guys were roaming around , yelling for them? Yet Lindsey is the only one who gets the bad reputation, making it a lot easier for Ken Cailliat to write about him in his book, and have people believe him. It may very well be true, but I don't take it as gospel just because Ken said it. Personally, I believe (though I don't actually know) that Lindsey was violent back then. I also think they were all screwed up and the that drugs and alcohol played a big part in it. Carol is the only one of Lindsey's girlfriends to claim Lindsey was violent. Anne Heche, Cheri Caspari, Kristen...nobody else had anything but good things to say about him, so I tend to think that it was only in those earlier years, from Rumours and Tusk era. Again, correct me, if I missed something that Stevie said. I know she said she couldn't handle the darkness or something, but that could have been depression, it could have been his anger or scariness, but not necessarily a specific act of abuse. Again, they were all a bit out of control at that time. So many times, the topic, no matter how benign, on here,seems to comes back to Lindsey hit Stevie, or Lindsey was abusive with Stevie, and yet we don't actually know that, right?
Iktomi
11-24-2013, 12:29 PM
I try not to get too interested into the lives of Fleetwood Mac members, but I did receive this book as a gift and gave it a read. I'm a fan of Lindsey Buckingham the musician. And I think the man himself is personally interesting, as far as I find any other genius musician goes. So let me just put that out there first. Yet as someone with various experiences and knowledge on domestic violence, this book was of more interest to me in that regards, especially considering Harris' mindset when she wrote it.
Autobiographies deal mostly with perspectives (in other words, every autobiography is going to have inaccuracies and subjective accounts). While I felt that the author exaggerated in areas for effect and was likely inaccurate in her details, I personally didn't feel that she was lying about Lindsey being an abusive man during this time period. Not only by what she says explicitly, but rather implicitly as well. His characteristics and behaviors, without her even meaning to at times, really do describe the behaviors associated with men who are abusive. He had control and anger issues, and those issues have been documented/corroborated by others as well. Some of his lyrics also seem to reflect this mindset, and while not something you should rely on exclusively, the way he held her (the stern hugs (holds rather) around her neck) and his sometimes aggressive nature in bed seem to be consistent with the body language of abusive men. So much of what I read from Harris herself, her behaviors and mindset, are similar to that of victimized women as well. She blamed herself a lot, and forgave him way too easily; and even when the book was written, had a habit of apologizing for him (which shocked me, honestly). She never really took him to task for his abusive behavior or provided any sort of reflection on being a victim of abuse.
If you want to focus on proof, she did provide outside witnesses that could have easily discounted her allegations. Two of the moments that stick out to me were moments where the band members saw Lindsey abusing Carol. I don't remember either of them clearly (so I could be off), but in one scene, Carol describes Lindsey angrily threatening and pulling her towards their vehicle. Carol goes on to describe that as Lindsey was pulling her, she saw Stevie's concerned reaction (this actually touched me as I also read it as "knowing" reaction on Stevie's part, who I think from experience knew what Carol was going through.) If I remember correctly though, Carol expressed how it looked as if Stevie was going to possibly intervene but her friends seemed to have pulled her away. And everyone else just basically looked the other way.
The other moment I remember was when she described how Lindsey was dragging her by the hair in the car right in front of Christine, and when Lindsey let go and left, Christine, clearly shakened, helped her up afterwards. I don't remember what really happened after that, but I'm pretty sure Lindsey probably apologized and Carol accepted it, but nobody held Lindsey accountable for that (which is a totally different discussion). But what struck me with that scene was how after he first hit her, Carol ran after him basically trying to explain and justify herself (again, typical behavior patterns within abusive relationships)
Not only does she show that there were witnesses to this violence, but it really demonstrates their mindsets. Most woman, if slapped or hit, aren't going to run to the man who hit him and trying to explain or justify themselves, begging for him to listen. She constantly excuses him, and rarely demonizes him for his actions.
I'm not trying to start any sort of argument about Lindsey Buckingham (personally, I believe abusive men can be rehabilitated), but I think people should be a little more aware of the realities of domestic violence, and the mindsets involved and should not be so quick to dismiss her story on those accounts. We're all fans of FM and should be aware of the biases we have going into reading this. Sociologically, her description of the pattern of reactions and behaviors seems pretty consistent throughout. And not to criticize Harris, but she doesn't seem creative enough to be able to make all of this up, especially considering how much she reveals without even meaning to.
Anyway, my two cents.
Also, thought I'd throw this in here considering the topic:
http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/warning_signs.html
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm
Lindsfan
11-24-2013, 12:40 PM
I try not to get too interested into the lives of Fleetwood Mac members, but I did receive this book as a gift and gave it a read. I'm a fan of Lindsey Buckingham the musician. And I think the man himself is personally interesting, as far as I find any other genius musician goes. So let me just put that out there first. Yet as someone with various experiences and knowledge on domestic violence, this book was of more interest to me in that regards, especially considering Harris' mindset when she wrote it.
Autobiographies deal mostly with perspectives (in other words, every autobiography is going to have inaccuracies and subjective accounts). While I felt that the author exaggerated in areas for effect and was likely inaccurate in her details, I personally didn't feel that she was lying about Lindsey being an abusive man during this time period. Not only by what she says explicitly, but rather implicitly as well. His characteristics and behaviors, without her even meaning to at times, really do describe the behaviors associated with men who are abusive. He had control and anger issues, and those issues have been documented/corroborated by others as well. Some of his lyrics also seem to reflect this mindset, and while not something you should rely on exclusively, the way he held her (the stern hugs (holds rather) around her neck) and his sometimes aggressive nature in bed seem to be consistent with the body language of abusive men. So much of what I read from Harris herself, her behaviors and mindset, are similar to that of victimized women as well. She blamed herself a lot, and forgave him way too easily; and even when the book was written, had a habit of apologizing for him (which shocked me, honestly). She never really took him to task for his abusive behavior or provided any sort of reflection on being a victim of abuse.
If you want to focus on proof, she did provide outside witnesses that could have easily discounted her allegations. Two of the moments that stick out to me were moments where the band members saw Lindsey abusing Carol. I don't remember either of them clearly (so I could be off), but in one scene, Carol describes Lindsey angrily threatening and pulling her towards their vehicle. Carol goes on to describe that as Lindsey was pulling her, she saw Stevie's concerned reaction (this actually touched me as I also read it as "knowing" reaction on Stevie's part, who I think from experience knew what Carol was going through.) If I remember correctly though, Carol expressed how it looked as if Stevie was going to possibly intervene but her friends seemed to have pulled her away. And everyone else just basically looked the other way.
The other moment I remember was when she described how Lindsey was dragging her by the hair in the car right in front of Christine, and when Lindsey let go and left, Christine, clearly shakened, helped her up afterwards. I don't remember what really happened after that, but I'm pretty sure Lindsey probably apologized and Carol accepted it, but nobody held Lindsey accountable for that (which is a totally different discussion). But what struck me with that scene was how after he first hit her, Carol ran after him basically trying to explain and justify herself (again, typical behavior patterns within abusive relationships)
Not only does she show that there were witnesses to this violence, but it really demonstrates their mindsets. Most woman, if slapped or hit, aren't going to run to the man who hit him and trying to explain or justify themselves, begging for him to listen. She constantly excuses him, and rarely demonizes him for his actions.
I'm not trying to start any sort of argument about Lindsey Buckingham (personally, I believe abusive men can be rehabilitated), but I think people should be a little more aware of the realities of domestic violence, and the mindsets involved and should not be so quick to dismiss her story on those accounts. We're all fans of FM and should be aware of the biases we have going into reading this. Sociologically, her description of the pattern of reactions and behaviors seems pretty consistent throughout. And not to criticize Harris, but she doesn't seem creative enough to be able to make all of this up, especially considering how much she reveals without even meaning to.
Anyway, my two cents.
Also, thought I'd throw this in here considering the topic:
http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/warning_signs.html
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm
That's a great post. We've discussed this book, and his abusive actions on here, quite a lot. Again, I don't for a minute, think she's making that part up. I do think that he's changed - and has been a changed man - for several decades now. I'm more bothered by the fact that this topic was brought up, yet again, because someone was bothered at how Stevie was portrayed in this book, thereby seemingly missing the whole point! To read Carol's words, and feel no sympathy for her, but only disgust, or hatred, is mind-boggling to me.
michelej1
11-24-2013, 12:57 PM
Not to pick on you, because, I actually hear that a lot, that Stevie said Lindsey choked her. I don't follow Stevie, obviously, but I don't recall ever hearing her say that. I recall her saying when Lindsey said he was quitting the band, that she became angry, and that she could be scary, herself (or something to that effect), and that she lunged at Lindsey, which made him mad, and he went after her, chasing her through Chris's house, and throwing her on the car hood. I also recall John saying there was a big fight or argument, and making a choking motion with his hands. He didn't say who was choking whom.
That's true and if we look at the Rock Family Tree interview, John made the choking gesture in sequence with Stevie's comment about attacking Lindsey, not about Lindsey then chasing Stevie down the block and throwing her onto the car.
What Stevie and Mick said was that Lindsey threw Stevie onto the hood of the car, not that he choked her. Stevie did say that Lindsey was going to kill her and she thought he was going to kill her and she told him her father and brother would have their revenge on him if he did kill her, if Fleetwood Mac didn't avenge her first.
So maybe people assume that the only way he could have been about to kill her is if he choked. But he could have just as easily been looking for a rock from the driveway to smash into her head -- if he was trying to kill her, which he probably wasn't exactly.
Mick for his part didn't seem to think Stevie was near death, but he did helpfully wonder if Lindsey was going to slap her.
Michele
michelej1
11-24-2013, 01:15 PM
With the incident at Christine's house, Carol does not say that Lindsey dragged her by the hair. She says her hair got caught in the window of his car as he was driving away. Christine told him to stop driving. It's not clear that Lindsey knew that her hair was in the car, she had been chasing him as he was leaving.
I've had that happen to me with the belt from my coat getting trapped in the door as someone was driving off. Neither of us knew that the belt was in the coat until the car started to move and I started to be dragged, but luckily the belt got pulled away from my coat and I wasn't caught behind the moving car.
As for witnesses to her story, generally, when you are writing a book you actually have comments from the witnesses to verify your story -- at least two if preferable. I mean you don't have to do that for an autobiography, but when people write biographies they have two verifying sources to be considered credible. You can say anyone saw things and that doesn't put the onus on them to come forward and say they didn't see it.
If things happened the way Carol said they did, it's criminal behavior which would not only have warranted censure, but jail time. But I find her an unreliable narrator and I think there's some truth to her story, but I don't know how much. To me, you really have to seem believable on the small things to be credible on the big ones. I know the reverse logic goes, she might lie about little things, but she wouldn't lie about something major, but I look at it the other way around. I need to trust the small steps, before I make the big leaps.
Michele
michelej1
11-24-2013, 01:21 PM
so i don''t see "he had to have a gf so that he's not alone" argument being very valid.
And of course, having friends does not make up for the lack of a special someone in your life. So, in addition to Richard, definitely he would want a mate, but I don't think you would keep the same mate for 7 years just to have company, when you could easily have moved on to another partner. In a situation where there is no deep affection, I think you get bored and want to move on, especially if you're a rock star and have candidates throwing themselves at you regularly. I think he must have been with Carol so long because he loved her, not because he just didn't want to be alone.
Michele
michelej1
11-24-2013, 01:26 PM
To read Carol's words, and feel no sympathy for her, but only disgust, or hatred, is mind-boggling to me.
If you don't believe her, I think it's hard to feel sympathy. If you do believe her that's a different story.
I would say if you believe what she says and still feel disgust or hatred, then that's a problem with our "blame the victim" society.
Michele
If you don't believe her, I think it's hard to feel sympathy. If you do believe her that's a different story.
I would say if you believe what she says and still feel disgust or hatred, then that's a problem with our "blame the victim" society.
Michele
yes, i think that's what one has to be very careful about, when talking about this book. many arguments i read on here were along the lines "she must have not been blameless" if it happened. blameless or not, it does not justify the abuse, period.
It was a pig/hog bucking like a horse - a Bucking ham...
http://i42.tinypic.com/12305xe.jpg
thank you thank you thank you!
and, you said that was on the fruit box? :lol:
michelej1
11-24-2013, 01:53 PM
yes, i think that's what one has to be very careful about, when talking about this book. many arguments i read on here were along the lines "she must have not been blameless" if it happened. blameless or not, it does not justify the abuse, period.
I agree with you, with one proviso. Just because someone is stronger than you, you can't use physical force against them either. Women should not be hit or pulled or pushed or yanked by the arm or held or restrained or intimidated with one of those, "you better do it or else," scowls. No one should. But they can't do that either.
I have encountered people with the mentality that they can engage in a violent act, but because there's little chance they can actually hurt the person, it's no big deal. Like, I'm so angry I'll just slap my boyfriend in exasperation, but he shouldn't hit me back because he could actually hurt ME, but I can't hurt him. So, I'll just smack him in a fit of pique.
That can't be done. You should not be the victim of physical aggression and you can't engage in it either, even if (practically speaking) coming from you, it's relatively harmless.
I mean, it's the same thing you tell a child, "I don't hit you and I don't expect you to hit me," even if they're still a toddler and their swats don't hurt.
Michele
I agree with you, with one proviso. Just because someone is stronger than you, you can't use physical force against them either. Women should not be hit or pulled or pushed or yanked by the arm or held or restrained or intimidated with one of those, "you better do it or else," scowls. No one should. But they can't do that either.
I have encountered people with the mentality that they can engage in a violent act, but because there's little chance they can actually hurt the person, it's no big deal. Like, I'm so angry I'll just slap my boyfriend in exasperation, but he shouldn't hit me back because he could actually hurt ME, but I can't hurt him. So, I'll just smack him in a fit of pique.
That can't be done. You should not be the victim of physical aggression and you can't engage in it either, even if (practically speaking) coming from you, it's relatively harmless.
I mean, it's the same thing you tell a child, "I don't hit you and I don't expect you to hit me," even if they're still a toddler and their swats don't hurt.
Michele
agreed. :nod:
It was a pig/hog bucking like a horse - a Bucking ham...
http://i42.tinypic.com/12305xe.jpg
and, you said that was on the fruit box? :lol:
ok i re-listened, he says they were growing pears and apricots.
too funny with the bucking pig/ham on the box of bartlett pears.
Lindsfan
11-24-2013, 02:35 PM
If you don't believe her, I think it's hard to feel sympathy. If you do believe her that's a different story.
I would say if you believe what she says and still feel disgust or hatred, then that's a problem with our "blame the victim" society.
Michele
Good point. For me, I don't think she pulled all of that out of thin air, though I do think she lacks credibility, and so I take it all with a grain of salt.
I also want to add that if he was as abusive as she says, and Mick, John, Ken, et. al., looked the other way, it doesn't say much for them either. Also, I don't think this kind of stuff was unique to LB or FM. My guess is it was not that unusual in the world of R&R, and so looking the other way, was part of the boys club mentality.
That can't be done. You should not be the victim of physical aggression and you can't engage in it either, even if (practically speaking) coming from you, it's relatively harmless.
I mean, it's the same thing you tell a child, "I don't hit you and I don't expect you to hit me," even if they're still a toddler and their swats don't hurt.
Michele
And that's kind of the feeling I get with Stevie and Lindsey, that they both pushed each other's buttons and there was a lot of emotional abuse going both ways. Obviously, men will usually be able to do a lot more physical damage, but it doesn't excuse a woman from acting the same way.
Lindsfan
11-24-2013, 02:36 PM
ok i re-listened, he says they were growing pears and apricots.
too funny with the bucking pig/ham on the box of bartlett pears.
Well, it certainly makes their brand memorable to have "meat" as their "produce" mascot :lol:
brickney723
11-24-2013, 03:14 PM
If things happened the way Carol said they did, it's criminal behavior which would not only have warranted censure, but jail time. But I find her an unreliable narrator and I think there's some truth to her story, but I don't know how much. To me, you really have to seem believable on the small things to be credible on the big ones. I know the reverse logic goes, she might lie about little things, but she wouldn't lie about something major, but I look at it the other way around. I need to trust the small steps, before I make the big leaps.
Michele[/QUOTE]
Agree.
I think he probably loved Carol (as in, he cared about Carol). I don't think he was ever in love with her. Many people are in years long relationships exactly like that- I actually think it's very common. If you are a person who needs to be with someone, it doesn't matter how many options you have: there may never be a reason to leave unless you can be with someone you are actually in love with. I think true love is a very rare thing, it just doesn't come along all that often.
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