Just Skimmed Through STORMS

[Iktomi]

With the incident at Christine's house, Carol does not say that Lindsey dragged her by the hair. She says her hair got caught in the window of his car as he was driving away. Christine told him to stop driving. It's not clear that Lindsey knew that her hair was in the car, she had been chasing him as he was leaving.

I've had that happen to me with the belt from my coat getting trapped in the door as someone was driving off. Neither of us knew that the belt was in the coat until the car started to move and I started to be dragged, but luckily the belt got pulled away from my coat and I wasn't caught behind the moving car.

As for witnesses to her story, generally, when you are writing a book you actually have comments from the witnesses to verify your story -- at least two if preferable. I mean you don't have to do that for an autobiography, but when people write biographies they have two verifying sources to be considered credible. You can say anyone saw things and that doesn't put the onus on them to come forward and say they didn't see it.

If things happened the way Carol said they did, it's criminal behavior which would not only have warranted censure, but jail time. But I find her an unreliable narrator and I think there's some truth to her story, but I don't know how much. To me, you really have to seem believable on the small things to be credible on the big ones. I know the reverse logic goes, she might lie about little things, but she wouldn't lie about something major, but I look at it the other way around. I need to trust the small steps, before I make the big leaps.

Michele

Although true that it isn't on the witnesses to corroborate and discount her account, she puts her account out there to be potentially challenged, which can provide for some readers a certain amount of credibility. Mileage varies and some people need more than that. Although, even if she wanted the band members to provide a comment on the abuse, I don't know if they would or could? On one hand, if her accounts were accurate, they'd be admitting that they saw a woman being abused and they remained silent and looked the other way. I'm not really here to speculate on those aspects, but I think in her situation, even if they wanted to comment on it, it wouldn't have been without political and personal baggage. I mean she was talking about domestic violence, which was punishable by law, had anyone bothered to report him (and of course, it was a slightly different era, and abuse was even more less likely to be reported then than it is today).

Personally, I'm not invested in him enough emotionally to be affected by these allegations (in other words, it's not like when I found out my childhood idol Michael Jordan wasn't a very nice guy). Truthfully, I look at this moreover through the lens of my experiences and career, and approach her story the same way I would with anyone similar to her situation, and accept her experiences as true to her. I've read stories and met people where I've seen obvious lies and exaggerations, but in this instance, I found her greater points on being in an abusive relationship as credible. Unlike many of you, I likely don't know enough about the band to be able to discredit her finer details anyway, so maybe that skews my view? Would non LB/FM fans give her as much credibility as me? Give her more credibility? Less? We could go back and forth on that, but she hasn't really given me any reason to think she's outright lying in her greater narrative. And again, it's not just her book. It's his own words in describing himself back then. It's others' description of him. In cases with abuse, you're never going to see the actual abuse, you're not always going to have witnesses, and you're not always going to see the marks, especially if the abuse isn't physical. So you have to learn to be very intuitive about certain behavior patterns when it comes to all forms of abuse - child abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, etc. (And it goes without saying but nonetheless: intuitions can be wrong, and patterns can be misleading and I'd most wholeheartedly and sincerely welcome being wrong on this issue. Regardless, it seems to me that he's gone through a lot of positive changes, and you can especially see that in his lyrics. I'm still an enthusiastic fan of his music and his history doesn't change that.)

Edit: so I found that passage, and the way I read it is that Lindsey did pull her hair and purposely dragged her, and while you may disagree, I think Carol is indicating that Christine did see this happening.

Pg. 222
"...Before I could say another word, he grabbed a fistful of my hair and floored the gas. Jerked forward, I desperately tried to hold onto the car door as I was dragged by the hair down Christine's driveway. I could hear her screaming, "Lindsey, stop the car! Stop! Stop!" over the sound of Lindsey's voice muttering unintelligible words as I stumbled to my knees still trying to hold on.
"Then as I was falling as Lindsey finally let go...I felt hands helping me to my feet and through blurred eyes I saw Christine's startled face as she asked me over and over if I was ok..."

[michelej1]

Pg. 222
"...Before I could say another word, he grabbed a fistful of my hair and floored the gas. Jerked forward, I desperately tried to hold onto the car door as I was dragged by the hair down Christine's driveway.

Ok. I agree with your description, now that I read that. I had thought that he grabbed her hair (and it came out) in another incident when they were at home, rather than in the car incident.

As far as witness comments, I am aware you don't get them most of the times in these cases. I don't say that that's what makes her less credible to me. These are usually he said/ she said events, because this most often happens in private. My point was that the fact that she says someone saw does not make it sound more valid to me than if she hadn't said anyone saw. After a tell-all is published, I think it's very unlikely that anyone would run forward and say, 'I didn't see that!' Even if they actually didn't.

It would make more sense for Lindsey to deny things he's accused of as perpetrator (and some people assume it's true because he hasn't) than for alleged witnesses to say, "Oh I deny that happened." If asked by a reporter maybe they would see they never saw any such thing, but I don't think anyone is going to be proactive and say, "Oh I never saw that happen," even if they didn't.

My impression of Carol (like her saying that audience members saw through her transparent skirt and started reacting to her when she was standing in the wings of a concert) is that she exaggerates what people see where she was concerned.

Michele

[Iktomi]

Good point. For me, I don't think she pulled all of that out of thin air, though I do think she lacks credibility, and so I take it all with a grain of salt.

I also want to add that if he was as abusive as she says, and Mick, John, Ken, et. al., looked the other way, it doesn't say much for them either. Also, I don't think this kind of stuff was unique to LB or FM. My guess is it was not that unusual in the world of R&R, and so looking the other way, was part of the boys club mentality.




And that's kind of the feeling I get with Stevie and Lindsey, that they both pushed each other's buttons and there was a lot of emotional abuse going both ways. Obviously, men will usually be able to do a lot more physical damage, but it doesn't excuse a woman from acting the same way.

I agree here. There is a lot of emotional (and physical) abuse directed at men. Actually, where I'm from, the number of cases of sexual abuse against young men is very close to the number of cases for young women. It's heartbreaking, because most the young men around here will never try talk about it....

In regards to LB/SN, I'm sure their love was genuine, but I've always felt that that relationship was highly toxic (well, that goes for most of the relationships in the band at one point). But in specific regards to SN/LB, the jealousy, possessiveness, and raging anger between them was just so dysfunctional and not really a healthy love. In the "real world," I don't think people would encourage a couple like that to get back together.

[michelej1]

In regards to LB/SN, I'm sure their love was genuine, but I've always felt that that relationship was highly toxic (well, that goes for most of the relationships in the band at one point). But in specific regards to SN/LB, the jealousy, possessiveness, and raging anger between them was just so dysfunctional and not really a healthy love. In the "real world," I don't think people would encourage a couple like that to get back together.

I don't see them as very compatible people. They excite me together that's for sure, but I don't see them as being capable of being in a stable relationship. I mean, Stevie said in 1982 they could get back together -- but she knew they would only break up all over again. I think that assessment was correct.

Michele

[elle]

In regards to LB/SN, I'm sure their love was genuine, but I've always felt that that relationship was highly toxic (well, that goes for most of the relationships in the band at one point). But in specific regards to SN/LB, the jealousy, possessiveness, and raging anger between them was just so dysfunctional and not really a healthy love. In the "real world," I don't think people would encourage a couple like that to get back together.

I don't see them as very compatible people. They excite me together that's for sure, but I don't see them as being capable of being in a stable relationship. I mean, Stevie said in 1982 they could get back together -- but she knew they would only break up all over again. I think that assessment was correct.

in that sky arts interview, Lindsey responded to a question asking him to describe their current relationship with "healthy distance".

[Lindsfan]

In the "real world," I don't think people would encourage a couple like that to get back together.

Agreed. Not if you cared about either one(or both) of them.

I don't see them as very compatible people. They excite me together that's for sure, but I don't see them as being capable of being in a stable relationship.

Michele

Yep. There is without a doubt, something very compelling about them, and their chemistry is off the charts, but they're bad for each other. Period.

in that sky arts interview, Lindsey responded to a question asking him to describe their current relationship with "healthy distance".

There ya go :nod:

[CADreaming]

It was a pig/hog bucking like a horse - a Bucking ham...

http://i42.tinypic.com/12305xe.jpg

Thanks! That's awesome. I remember seeing it before.

[CADreaming]

I think he probably loved Carol (as in, he cared about Carol). I don't think he was ever in love with her. Many people are in years long relationships exactly like that- I actually think it's very common. If you are a person who needs to be with someone, it doesn't matter how many options you have: there may never be a reason to leave unless you can be with someone you are actually in love with. I think true love is a very rare thing, it just doesn't come along all that often.

And, sometimes people are in relationships because they are convenient and remain in them because they are convenient. And, sometimes they get in relationships with people out of spite and remain in them for convenience - and spite.

Sad, but true.

[Lindsfan]

I think he probably loved Carol (as in, he cared about Carol). I don't think he was ever in love with her. Many people are in years long relationships exactly like that- I actually think it's very common. If you are a person who needs to be with someone, it doesn't matter how many options you have: there may never be a reason to leave unless you can be with someone you are actually in love with. I think true love is a very rare thing, it just doesn't come along all that often.

And, sometimes people are in relationships because they are convenient and remain in them because they are convenient. And, sometimes they get in relationships with people out of spite and remain in them for convenience - and spite.



And sometimes people move on, and find love again.

Sure, it's possible that Lindsey wasn't in love with Carol. But it's just as possible that he was. Love comes in varying degrees, and forms, and for all we know, he's currently married to the love of his life. Or maybe not. :shrug: How do we know? Personally, I just hope he's happy, and that he's loved. Same as I'd wish for anyone I cared about.

[CADreaming]

And sometimes people move on, and find love again.

Sure, it's possible that Lindsey wasn't in love with Carol. But it's just as possible that he was. Love comes in varying degrees, and forms, and for all we know, he's currently married to the love of his life. Or maybe not. :shrug: How do we know? Personally, I just hope he's happy, and that he's loved. Same as I'd wish for anyone I cared about.

Exactly. Everyone is speculating on the compatibility of people we do not know personally. By all accounts previously, the friends of Stevie and Lindsey felt they were very compatible and very in love. Stevie has contradicted herself many times about that. And, Lindsey could have moved on from Stevie, but there are several accounts of that not totally being true, including Carol herself who said she knew he had always been in love with Stevie even when she was with him.

We can't really say what any of their feelings were then or are now - how compatible or toxic or whether Stevie/Lindsey or Lindsey/Carol would have lasted under different circumstances. Those speculations are truly only accurate if you are able to make your observations in the very inner circle.

[elle]

Though.. it's funny because I just saw a youtube video of Lindsey telling someone in the audience at one of his solo shows how unhappy specifically the years from 1977-1987 were for him.

yup, he usually says that. how hard and unhealthy it was to be around the person you are broken up with and not being able to get a closure because they are always there and you need to work with them (and you gotta compartmentalize :p ). and how he never found that closure until finally leaving 1987, to restore his own sanity. guess it's been slowly uphill for LB since then.

[brickney723]

Exactly. I don't really care to speculate on his marriage. I hope he's blissfully in love with his wife, personally. I'm talking about a girlfriend from 30 years ago here. But I'm not just making a wild guess on this- there is a lot of information (30 years worth) out there (interviews, written and televised, song lyrics, etc.) that make me come to that conclusion.

[CADreaming]

yup, he usually says that. how hard and unhealthy it was to be around the person you are broken up with and not being able to get a closure because they are always there and you need to work with them (and you gotta compartmentalize :p ). and how he never found that closure until finally leaving 1987, to restore his own sanity. guess it's been slowly uphill for LB since then.

Yeah, I bet it totally sucked and he never had any fun at all. :rolleyes:

[McTrouble]

SMH :distress:

[getTusked]

Ok, while we are on the subject of this book, can I just ask about the content OTHER than the abuse? I have already heard all about that and all the opinions about it...but are there any other interesting tidbits/stories about LB that make the book worth getting? I have literally debated getting it for months now. I know some of the abuse accusations can be pretty tough to read, but are there any other stories she gives that just gives us more insight to LB...for us fans? Him being funny? Romantic? Dramatic? Cute? Funny FM stories?

I did hear the Kenny Rogers story. That's a goodie :lol:

[McTrouble]

Ok, while we are on the subject of this book, can I just ask about the content OTHER than the abuse? I have already heard all about that and all the opinions about it...but are there any other interesting tidbits/stories about LB that make the book worth getting? I have literally debated getting it for months now. I know some of the abuse accusations can be pretty tough to read, but are there any other stories she gives that just gives us more insight to LB...for us fans? Him being funny? Romantic? Dramatic? Cute? Funny FM stories?

I did hear the Kenny Rogers story. That's a goodie :lol:

Wait till you read the Mick Jagger story! The book is worth it for that alone ;) :D

[Sapphire Girl]

Stevie/Carol Ann Similarities I Noticed (aside from the May 26 birthday)

1. Stevie's mom has red hair. Carol Ann's mom has red hair.
2. Stevie moved to LA when she was 18. Carol Ann moved to LA when she was 18.
3. Stevie once lived in a Spanish-style apartment. Carol Ann once lived in a Spanish-style apartment.
4. Stevie lived in a Tudor-style home during the Tusk era. Carol Ann lived in a Tudor-style home during the Tusk era.
5. Stevie lived in a home with a 30-ft high ceiling. Carol Ann lived in a home with a 30-ft high ceiling.
6. Stevie and Lindsey had an altercation on Christine's driveway. Carol Ann and Lindsey had an altercation on Christine's driveway. (Looks like couples needed to steer clear of Christine's driveway.)

I would have liked to have read more about her friend Lori Lazenby but, much like George, it seems she just made a one-off appearance.

[Lindsfan]

Ok, while we are on the subject of this book, can I just ask about the content OTHER than the abuse? I have already heard all about that and all the opinions about it...but are there any other interesting tidbits/stories about LB that make the book worth getting? I have literally debated getting it for months now. I know some of the abuse accusations can be pretty tough to read, but are there any other stories she gives that just gives us more insight to LB...for us fans? Him being funny? Romantic? Dramatic? Cute? Funny FM stories?

I did hear the Kenny Rogers story. That's a goodie :lol:

Yes!! Definitely worth the read. It's a good look into the band's life, and the music world at that time, and there are more than a few memorable moments. It's a quick read, really, and yes, it will get sad/depressing at parts, but I'm glad I read it. If you're a fan of Lindsey (and I know you are), then I recommend it.

Wait till you read the Mick Jagger story! The book is worth it for that alone ;) :D

And the Dick Clark story :p
And Eric Clapton's frigid house...
There are plenty of other good tidbits in there, too, that don't involve famous people.

[elle]

^^ :lol: after all the good discussions, comments and questions on the last few pages - to quote louie in another thread:

Can we PLEASE let this one thread, just this ONE thread, not be about Stevie Nicks?
and
There are so, so many questions... and none of them have anything to do with Stevie freaking Nicks. :sorry:

[elle]

And the Dick Clark story :p
And Eric Clapton's frigid house...
There are plenty of other good tidbits in there, too, that don't involve famous people.

:nod: Eric Clapton's frigid castle/house with who's who of legendary guitarists of the time all jamming together and ending up throwing darts at each other while high.

[CADreaming]

Stevie/Carol Ann Similarities I Noticed (aside from the May 26 birthday)

1. Stevie's mom has red hair. Carol Ann's mom has red hair.
2. Stevie moved to LA when she was 18. Carol Ann moved to LA when she was 18.
3. Stevie once lived in a Spanish-style apartment. Carol Ann once lived in a Spanish-style apartment.
4. Stevie lived in a Tudor-style home during the Tusk era. Carol Ann lived in a Tudor-style home during the Tusk era.
5. Stevie lived in a home with a 30-ft high ceiling. Carol Ann lived in a home with a 30-ft high ceiling.
6. Stevie and Lindsey had an altercation on Christine's driveway. Carol Ann and Lindsey had an altercation on Christine's driveway. (Looks like couples needed to steer clear of Christine's driveway.)

I would have liked to have read more about her friend Lori Lazenby but, much like George, it seems she just made a one-off appearance.

Stevie and Carol both have mitral valve prolapse.

[elle]

Ok, while we are on the subject of this book, can I just ask about the content OTHER than the abuse? I have already heard all about that and all the opinions about it...but are there any other interesting tidbits/stories about LB that make the book worth getting? I have literally debated getting it for months now. I know some of the abuse accusations can be pretty tough to read, but are there any other stories she gives that just gives us more insight to LB...for us fans? Him being funny? Romantic? Dramatic? Cute? Funny FM stories?

one thing i would give you heads up about is that even though the rest of the book may be horribly written entertaining highly romanticized fluff sprinkled with some interesting tidbits, be prepared you may definitely get off LB fandom wagon for a while when reading those abuse stories, if you believe they are even partially true.

you can probably read the book for free on google books or somewhere instead of getting it.

[I'msoAfraid95]

Stevie and Carol both have mitral valve prolapse.

Umm stupid question, but what's that?

[Lindsfan]

one thing i would give you heads up about is that even though the rest of the book may be horribly written entertaining highly romanticized fluff sprinkled with some interesting tidbits, be prepared you may definitely get off LB fandom wagon for a while when reading those abuse stories, if you believe they are even partially true.

you can probably read the book for free on google books or somewhere instead of getting it.

That's a good point, though, peoples' reactions vary greatly, of course. It was hard to read, but I wasn't really shocked, given I'd already read the stories. And I can't see the man in the book, as the man I see, and have spoken to, in recent years. So, I wasn't turned off to him, as Elle was. Yes, be prepared for some ugliness, but it doesn't have to change how you see or appreciate Lindsey now. Elle and I discussed this a lot, in the last couple of years, and our reactions have been similar in some ways, and very different in other ways. So, if you're interested in Lindsey's life, this is part of it. It's got some good stuff, and some bad. I do know a couple people that were turned off to him after reading this. But, after some time, and a chance to digest it, and look at who he is now, they are, in fact, fans again.

[CADreaming]

Umm stupid question, but what's that?

Mitral valve prolapse is a heart problem in which the valve that separates the upper and lower chambers of the left side of the heart does not close properly.

[Sapphire Girl]

Stevie and Carol both have mitral valve prolapse.

Do they? Then that's similarity #8.

I remember someone mentioning Carol Ann's remark about John Wayne's birthday also being on May 26. Out of all the famous people born on that date who were of relevance back in 1977, he is the only one who didn't perform under his given name.

[I'msoAfraid95]

Mitral valve prolapse is a heart problem in which the valve that separates the upper and lower chambers of the left side of the heart does not close properly.

I figured that it was something related to the heart because of the word "valve". It most not be that serious if Stevie's able to do all the shows she does.

[michelej1]

And sometimes people move on, and find love again.



Right. It makes me giggle the way people go out of their way to prove every other relationship either ever had was fake. Oh, that's a façade for the public. Behind the scenes, they're really committed only to each other. Obviously, this has been the JFK weekend of conspiracy plots, but the SnL ones put the assassination scenarios to shame.

You move on, you find love again and you often find a different love that's richer and deeper, if not as passionate and volatile. If Stevie and Lindsey were cut out for an enduring relationship, they would have had one. Actually, they have had one and that's commendable, but I think both of them really envision a monogamous kind of love that they never seem to have had together and I think that's the crux of their "what might have been" fantasies -- that they regret what they couldn't actually achieve. I don't think they could have had a family for a minute. Sure, they could have had kids, but not given them a home or a foundation.

You don't spend 40 years apart if you were actually destined to be together. Star-crossed love is usually crossed for a reason in romances, but there were many, many years when Stevie and Lindsey never actually had a reason not to be together. There were plenty of times when there were no obstacles to a permanent reunion between them, except each other.

Now, I can ship pretty hard. I love what Stevie and Lindsey have between them, but I don't think what they have is 35 years of secret love. I don't doubt they've had sex back and forth over time. But the fact that they've been sleeping around with other people constantly during that span of time quickly tarnishes whatever romantic fantasies I'd like to entertain.

Michele

[redtulip]

I also heard Stevie had a secretary named Harris and Carol had one named Nicks. :lol:

[michelej1]

I also heard Stevie had a secretary named Harris and Carol had one named Nicks. :lol:

And after years of believing otherwise, I heard that was NOT true of Kennedy and Lincoln. :lol:

Michele

[Lindsfan]

And after years of believing otherwise, I heard that was NOT true of Kennedy and Lincoln. :lol:

Michele

I heard that too. I was so disappointed :distress: I had one of those little cards with the penny, and all the facts, and it was all a cruel hoax.

[CADreaming]

I figured that it was something related to the heart because of the word "valve". It most not be that serious if Stevie's able to do all the shows she does.

No, it is not a life threatening condition. I have a friend who has it.

I also heard Stevie had a secretary named Harris and Carol had one named Nicks. :lol:

Funny. :)

Didn't Carol say she liked to wear black? :lol:

[elle]

Didn't Carol say she liked to wear black? :lol:

every blonde likes to wear black. we look good in it and don't need any make-up. it's the contrast.

[Lindsfan]

Lindsey and Mick both had beards.
Lindsey and Don both had beards.
Lindsey and Joe both had beards.
Lindsey and Kim both had beards.
Lindsey and Kim both had girls' names.
Lindsey was in a 70's rock band. Joe and Don were in a 70's rock band. Mick was in a 70's rock band.
Lindsey played guitar. Joe played guitar. Don played guitar.
Lindsey did Stevie. Joe, Don, and Mick did Stevie. I have no idea if Kim did Stevie (and I don't really care).

:shocked:

[elle]

Right. It makes me giggle the way people go out of their way to prove every other relationship either ever had was fake.

nah... nevah!

[CADreaming]

every blonde likes to wear black. we look good in it and don't need any make-up. it's the contrast.

Brunettes do too. Not sure about the no make up thing though.

For Carol to specifically put that particular detail in her book was funny, for obvious reasons. Of course, she's just a riot anyway.

[CADreaming]

Lindsey and Mick both had beards.
Lindsey and Don both had beards.
Lindsey and Joe both had beards.
Lindsey and Kim both had beards.
Lindsey and Kim both had girls' names.
Lindsey was in a 70's rock band. Joe and Don were in a 70's rock band. Mick was in a 70's rock band.
Lindsey played guitar. Joe played guitar. Don played guitar.
Lindsey did Stevie. Joe, Don, and Mick did Stevie. I have no idea if Kim did Stevie (and I don't really care).

:shocked:

Carol used the word "finery".

Stevie used the word "finery".

Come on, it's just hilarious. Take if for what it is. I mean, she's got a million of 'em in that book.

[michelej1]

Actually, it would have been great if Carol had stopped trying to make herself seem so defenseless and innocent and just gone for it. I laughed for several minutes straight, tears streaming down my face, when she said she told Stevie that John Wayne had their same birthday too. That shut Stevie up, pretty good. Thrown down.


Michele

[michelej1]

nah... nevah!

Of course, if they had gotten back together ala Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood, I would have been thrilled, cause I'm kind of given to swooning.

Although, hopefully neither of them would end up drowning to death under mysterious circumstances.

Michele

[Deeshere]

That's true and if we look at the Rock Family Tree interview, John made the choking gesture in sequence with Stevie's comment about attacking Lindsey, not about Lindsey then chasing Stevie down the block and throwing her onto the car.

What Stevie and Mick said was that Lindsey threw Stevie onto the hood of the car, not that he choked her. Stevie did say that Lindsey was going to kill her and she thought he was going to kill her and she told him her father and brother would have their revenge on him if he did kill her, if Fleetwood Mac didn't avenge her first.

So maybe people assume that the only way he could have been about to kill her is if he choked. But he could have just as easily been looking for a rock from the driveway to smash into her head -- if he was trying to kill her, which he probably wasn't exactly.

Mick for his part didn't seem to think Stevie was near death, but he did helpfully wonder if Lindsey was going to slap her.

Michele

Your right. I because I had heard previous allegations that Lindsey choked Ken and Carol, when I read Stevie' s story about her fight with Lindsey and she said she thought he was going to kill her I guess I assumed he had choked her too, but Stevie never really did say Lindsey choked her,so I was wrong about that

[elle]

Brunettes do too. Not sure about the no make up thing though.

i can't wear yellow without makeup, it washes me out. i can wear black with no make up and still look fine.

[I'msoAfraid95]

Let's face it. Stevie wants somebody who resembles or reminds her of Lindsey, and vice versa for Lindsey.

They can't stay together as a couple, but there are some traits/quirks/things about the other that they really like. :rolleyes:

[redtulip]

Well I will always love this book, even if only for bringing us this picture:

http://i39.tinypic.com/23m5tn4.jpg

[I'msoAfraid95]

Well I will always love this book, even if only for bringing us this picture:

http://i39.tinypic.com/23m5tn4.jpg

Am I the only one who doesn't like this photo? There's just something about it that's just.... bleh :(


Edit: I think it's the contrast. Its too dark!

[redtulip]

Am I the only one who doesn't like this photo? There's just something about it that's just.... bleh :(

Yes, yes you are. :lol:

[elle]

Am I the only one who doesn't like this photo? There's just something about it that's just.... bleh :(

Yes, yes you are. :lol:

what she said.

hot is hot. period.

[I'msoAfraid95]

Yes, yes you are. :lol:

LOL :p

I'm sure there's one that I love that you dislike.

[Lindsfan]

Well I will always love this book, even if only for bringing us this picture:

http://i39.tinypic.com/23m5tn4.jpg

:xoxo: Indeed.

[redtulip]

LOL :p

I'm sure there's one that I love that you dislike.

Probably. But what's not to like here? Bare chest, pants undone, sexy "get over here" look. I'm sure it was just a personal camera shot so obviously could be better quality, but everything else about it overrides and composition issues for me. :shrug: :D

[brickney723]

"Star-crossed love is usually crossed for a reason in romances, but there were many, many years when Stevie and Lindsey never actually had a reason not to be together. There were plenty of times when there were no obstacles to a permanent reunion between them, except each other."

I speculate the obstacle has always been that Nicks never again wanted a serious, long term, monogamous relationship with LB, or possibly with anybody else for that matter- maybe with good reason.

[I'msoAfraid95]

Ya'll can stop ganging up on me. :p

He would look better if the contrast was brighter. He doesn't even look like Lindsey at first, to me.


*Prepares to be shot*

[michelej1]

Am I the only one who doesn't like this photo? There's just something about it that's just.... bleh :(


Edit: I think it's the contrast. Its too dark!

No, you're not the only one. I think he looks kind of creepy. I'm like, "Put on a shirt and stop smirking, dude." Maybe if he was in another position it would be appealing.

Michele

[michelej1]

Ya'll can stop ganging up on me. :p

He would look better if the contrast was brighter. He doesn't even look like Lindsey at first, to me.


*Prepares to be shot*

It's not just the photo's defaults for me. He looks scrawny.

Why were all of her pictures dark and blurry anyway? I know she had some better pictures than that. I like the one with the kitty kat.

Michele

[I'msoAfraid95]

No, you're not the only one. I think he looks kind of creepy. I'm like, "Put on a shirt and stop smirking, dude." Maybe if he was in another position it would be appealing.

Michele

:D. Thank You! It's just not a picture of Lindsey that you would want on a cover of a magazine or as your screensaver. It's too close up as well.

[Lindsfan]

I speculate the obstacle has always been that Nicks never again wanted a serious, long term, monogamous relationship with LB, or possibly with anybody else for that matter- maybe with good reason.

I always got the opposite impression. That she's never moved on because she's so hung up on Lindsey. And who can blame her? I mean...

what's not to like here? Bare chest, pants undone, sexy "get over here" look. :shrug: :D


http://i39.tinypic.com/23m5tn4.jpg[/QUOTE]

[redtulip]

It's not just the photo's defaults for me. He looks scrawny.

Why were all of her pictures dark and blurry anyway? I know she had some better pictures than that. I like the one with the kitty kat.

Michele

http://i39.tinypic.com/eafatw.jpg

[I'msoAfraid95]

http://i39.tinypic.com/eafatw.jpg

Now that is too precious and soo cute!:angel:

[Lindsfan]

It's not just the photo's defaults for me. He looks scrawny.

Well, he was kinda scrawny :D

Why were all of her pictures dark and blurry anyway?

Maybe she used an off brand of flash cubes :shrug:

[Wynne]

Oh Deeshere you made me pick it up and start to finish it. That was a lot of info. Thank you for posting it. What about the incident where Carol tells Lindsey something about Stevie and he goes and whispers something in Stevie's ear on the plane and how it made Stevie's eyes buldge out and set her in her place. I wonder what was said. It's bad but the more I read this thread about Carol, the more I just dislike her. I guess it had to feel horrific to stand next to Stevie, watch her being adored by millions and be so talented and all you were was a girlfriend who tagged along to concerts and hung out at Lindsey's house and had no career and was really ugly next to Stevie. Ewwwwww that was so bad, I just had to type it, sorry. I guess she was ok looking. No, really she wasn't at all. Sorry. Next to Stevie, Carol was just gawd awful. Can't help it. I love how Carol likes to mention everytime someone tells her she looked beautiful in the book etc, that made me puke. I have had people tell me I looked great before, but it would never go in my book, even if it was Christ who said it. I guess I have a lot of youtube searching to do tonight. In the end I believe carol's life was miserable during that time due to, just Stevie's energy being around. I wonder how she feels about all the new come backs with Stevie on AHS and how great she looks. I guess no one has any photos of Carol? Also did Stevie or Lindsey ever comment on this book? I hate myself for not being caught up. It would really help if stevie just gave the world what they wanted and wrote a 1000 page book with photos and gave a few snark remarks about Carol. By the way if Lindsey heard that Stevie said she would never let Carol marry him, it probably turned him on and off he went to find her. Finishing the book now

[Lindsfan]

Now that is too precious and soo cute!:angel:

There's another little tidbit from the book...the kitten's name was Monty Clift, because that was Lindsey's favorite actor.

[I'msoAfraid95]

Meanwhile I'm wondering if it's worth the $15 to buy the book off of Amazon. :shrug: I didn't become a FM fan until long after this book was published.( I'm only 18, after all ;) )

[michelej1]

I always got the opposite impression. That she's never moved on because she's so hung up on Lindsey. And who can blame her? I mean...



Yes, when she talks about it, about him being the only one she was ever with that long, it's not as if she's saying that it was such a nightmare relationship she never wanted to have one like that again, it's more like she takes succor in the fact that he was the only one to whom she was ever really "married," despite the other romances she's had.

I mean, a part of her does indicate that she doesn't really want to get close and suggests that he wanted more intimacy than she could give, a sentiment that inspired her Gold and Braid lyrics, but I also sense a kind of pride in what they had when she says that her mother and father considered them married and so did they, like she's never had that closeness.

Yes, her POTU lyrics which say you will never love again the way you loved me, you will never rule again the way you ruled me suggest he had a dominion over her that she wanted to escape on one hand, but to me there's that other unsung, unsaid half that says, "you'll never love again that way and I will never BE loved again that way."

You will never rule again and I will never fall under someone's sway so deeply that I want to surrender again. I mean she calls it an angry song of hers, but when I hear the song, it's a universe where the world ends not in rage, but with regret.

Michele

[I'msoAfraid95]

There's another little tidbit from the book...the kitten's name was Monty Clift, because that was Lindsey's favorite actor.

Of course, the sexy appealing musician loves the sexy appealing(for his time) actor. :lol:

[Lindsfan]

Oh Deeshere you made me pick it up and start to finish it. That was a lot of info. Thank you for posting it. What about the incident where Carol tells Lindsey something about Stevie and he goes and whispers something in Stevie's ear on the plane and how it made Stevie's eyes buldge out and set her in her place. I wonder what was said. It's bad but the more I read this thread about Carol, the more I just dislike her. I guess it had to feel horrific to stand next to Stevie, watch her being adored by millions and be so talented and all you were was a girlfriend who tagged along to concerts and hung out at Lindsey's house and had no career and was really ugly next to Stevie. Ewwwwww that was so bad, I just had to type it, sorry. I guess she was ok looking. No, really she wasn't at all. Sorry. Next to Stevie, Carol was just gawd awful. Can't help it. I love how Carol likes to mention everytime someone tells her she looked beautiful in the book etc, that made me puke. I have had people tell me I looked great before, but it would never go in my book, even if it was Christ who said it. I guess I have a lot of youtube searching to do tonight. In the end I believe carol's life was miserable during that time due to, just Stevie's energy being around. I wonder how she feels about all the new come backs with Stevie on AHS and how great she looks. I guess no one has any photos of Carol? Also did Stevie or Lindsey ever comment on this book? I hate myself for not being caught up. It would really help if stevie just gave the world what they wanted and wrote a 1000 page book with photos and gave a few snark remarks about Carol. By the way if Lindsey heard that Stevie said she would never let Carol marry him, it probably turned him on and off he went to find her. Finishing the book now

Wow. :distress: Just...wow.

[CADreaming]

Also did Stevie or Lindsey ever comment on this book?

They sang "Storms" on tour ("Unleashed" tour) the following year, the first time they ever performed it live.

I thought that was a nice comment.

[michelej1]

Oh Deeshere you made me pick it up and start to finish it. That was a lot of info. Thank you for posting it. What about the incident where Carol tells Lindsey something about Stevie and he goes and whispers something in Stevie's ear on the plane and how it made Stevie's eyes buldge out and set her in her place. I wonder what was said. It's bad but the more I read this thread about Carol, the more I just dislike her. I guess it had to feel horrific to stand next to Stevie, watch her being adored by millions and be so talented and all you were was a girlfriend who tagged along to concerts and hung out at Lindsey's house and had no career and was really ugly next to Stevie. Ewwwwww that was so bad, I just had to type it, sorry. I guess she was ok looking. No, really she wasn't at all. Sorry. Next to Stevie, Carol was just gawd awful. Can't help it. I love how Carol likes to mention everytime someone tells her she looked beautiful in the book etc, that made me puke. I have had people tell me I looked great before, but it would never go in my book, even if it was Christ who said it. I guess I have a lot of youtube searching to do tonight. In the end I believe carol's life was miserable during that time due to, just Stevie's energy being around.

You know we had a thread here about the plastic surgery documentary that Carol was in. It was posted on youtube. I think you would like to see it very much.

Michele

[michelej1]

There's another little tidbit from the book...the kitten's name was Monty Clift, because that was Lindsey's favorite actor.

Oh, I'd completely forgotten that info. Nice. My favorite Montgomery Cliff movie is The Heiress. After manipulating a plain jane, she turns the table on him and it ends with him pounding on her door futilely. I just love it.

I wonder what Lindsey's favorite movie of his is.

Michele

[michelej1]

http://i39.tinypic.com/eafatw.jpg

Now, yum.

Michele

[Lindsfan]

Oh, I'd completely forgotten that info. Nice. My favorite Montgomery Cliff movie is The Heiress. After manipulating a plain jane, she turns the table on him and it ends with him pounding on her door futilely. I just love it.

I wonder what Lindsey's favorite movie of his is.

Michele

Maybe Raintree County. You know how Lindsey's face has two very distinct profiles (both hot, but very different)? Monty got in that horrible car wreck in the middle of filming Raintree, and you can see which scenes were filmed before, and which were after. The wreck disfigured his face, leaving one side gorgeous, and the other disfigured.

I think Linds even looks like pre-accident, Montgomery Clift sometimes, especially in some OOTC era photos.

[Wynne]

Oh my GAWD!!!!!! A youtube about Carol's plastic surgery. I just got so excited. It's very bad to be happy and excited to watch someone's misery and to make fun of someone but in this case I will allow myself to be a bitch and enjoy it. It's Stevie so I can't help it. Karma will get me so its ok. I just re-read the paragraph about the music award show. Carol said, John and Mick RACED to Lindsey across the stage and helped him. Thanks to yall I saw the real footage. She just lied.

[Wynne]

They sang "Storms" on tour ("Unleashed" tour) the following year, the first time they ever performed it live.

I thought that was a nice comment.

Hahahaha, that was pretty good

[michelej1]

Oh my GAWD!!!!!! A youtube about Carol's plastic surgery. I just got so excited. It's very bad to be happy and excited to watch someone's misery and to make fun of someone but in this case I will allow myself to be a bitch and enjoy it. It's Stevie so I can't help it. Karma will get me so its ok. I just re-read the paragraph about the music award show. Carol said, John and Mick RACED to Lindsey across the stage and helped him. Thanks to yall I saw the real footage. She just lied.

Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg8hNCZa5_8

[Deeshere]

Not to pick on you, because, I actually hear that a lot, that Stevie said Lindsey choked her. I don't follow Stevie, obviously, but I don't recall ever hearing her say that. I recall her saying when Lindsey said he was quitting the band, that she became angry, and that she could be scary, herself (or something to that effect), and that she lunged at Lindsey, which made him mad, and he went after her, chasing her through Chris's house, and throwing her on the car hood. I also recall John saying there was a big fight or argument, and making a choking motion with his hands. He didn't say who was choking whom. A lot of people assume it was Lindsey choking Stevie, but do we know that for a fact? If she really said that, could someone please share the source. It's also worth noting that John was (reportedly) violent and scary when he drank, as well. Didn't Chris say she and Stevie hid in closets or something when the guys were roaming around , yelling for them? Yet Lindsey is the only one who gets the bad reputation, making it a lot easier for Ken Cailliat to write about him in his book, and have people believe him. It may very well be true, but I don't take it as gospel just because Ken said it. Personally, I believe (though I don't actually know) that Lindsey was violent back then. I also think they were all screwed up and the that drugs and alcohol played a big part in it. Carol is the only one of Lindsey's girlfriends to claim Lindsey was violent. Anne Heche, Cheri Caspari, Kristen...nobody else had anything but good things to say about him, so I tend to think that it was only in those earlier years, from Rumours and Tusk era. Again, correct me, if I missed something that Stevie said. I know she said she couldn't handle the darkness or something, but that could have been depression, it could have been his anger or scariness, but not necessarily a specific act of abuse. Again, they were all a bit out of control at that time. So many times, the topic, no matter how benign, on here,seems to comes back to Lindsey hit Stevie, or Lindsey was abusive with Stevie, and yet we don't actually know that, right?

I don't feel picked on at all :) if I'm wrong you have every right to say so. I haven't had time to go back and re-read the articles, but I do think I made an assumption that Lindsey was choking Stevie based on the fact that he had been accused of it by Carol and Ken, and Stevie said she thought Lindsey was going to kill her during their fight, but I don't think Stevie actually said Lindsey choked her so I do think I was wrong about that.

[michelej1]

Carol said, John and Mick RACED to Lindsey across the stage and helped him.

Wow. That gets me excited. I wish that had happened.

Michele

[Lindsfan]

Oh my GAWD!!!!!! A youtube about Carol's plastic surgery. I just got so excited. It's very bad to be happy and excited to watch someone's misery and to make fun of someone but in this case I will allow myself to be a bitch and enjoy it. It's Stevie so I can't help it. Karma will get me so its ok. I just re-read the paragraph about the music award show. Carol said, John and Mick RACED to Lindsey across the stage and helped him. Thanks to yall I saw the real footage. She just lied.

Are you for real? Or are you just trying to jerk our chains?

[Wynne]

michelej1 THANK you soso so so much, I typed in Carols name and her name with Lindsey and nothing came up but Stevie! Poor butt ugly Carol. Oh my God, Karma strike 2. I just clicked on it and I think I tinkled, or almost did, I heard her voice and saw that nose and face and hit PAUSE. Just to take in the horrific image, and joy I felt at her whole being. You people had all this golden stuff for ages!!!!! I am headed straight for hell for this but she is just a creature, and I am off to finish the video. I am so happy, this made my whole week. I am sorry to any good people who think it's wrong to poke fun of peoples look's, in this case it just has to be.........

[Lindsfan]

michelej1 THANK you soso so so much, I typed in Carols name and her name with Lindsey and nothing came up but Stevie! Poor butt ugly Carol. Oh my God, Karma strike 2. I just clicked on it and I think I tinkled, or almost did, I heard her voice and saw that nose and face and hit PAUSE. Just to take in the horrific image, and joy I felt at her whole being. You people had all this golden stuff for ages!!!!! I am headed straight for hell for this but she is just a creature, and I am off to finish the video. I am so happy, this made my whole week. I am sorry to any good people who think it's wrong to poke fun of peoples look's, in this case it just has to be.........

Classy post.

[redtulip]

Classy post.

Emphasis mine.

[Wynne]

I have no class when it comes to this woman. I am allowed to be evil once every few years. I just watched it. Why did she not fix her gigantic nose? I think Lindsey used carol to make Stevie jealous. Looking at Carol's face every day and hearing her horrific voice and flat personality every day brought on Lindsey's seizures. Sorry

[I'msoAfraid95]

Classy post.

So wrong yet so funny.:lol:

We need a devil face.

[redtulip]

I have no class when it comes to this woman. I am allowed to be evil once every few years. I just watched it. Why did she not fix her gigantic nose? I think Lindsey used carol to make Stevie jealous. Looking at Carol's face every day and hearing her horrific voice and flat personality every day brought on Lindsey's seizures. Sorry

Why? What did Carol do to you that warrants all this hate?

[Wynne]

Are you for real? Or are you just trying to jerk our chains?

Why would I jerk your chain. At that moment I was over thrilled to see a horrific video of a woman I cant stand. I loathe this woman. I am a do-gooder in life and believe in not putting out negative energy but I just can't help it with this woman. I just read a book of Bull **** so yeah she is butt ugly, low class, a wanna-be and a back stabber and a 100 other ****ty things. So I think Karma will forgive my tiny moment of bashing Carol Ann and my lack of class for 5 min. I was thrilled to see she looked like a bad blow up doll compared to the perfection of Stevie.

[Lindsfan]

Why would I jerk your chain. At that moment I was over thrilled to see a horrific video of a woman I cant stand. I loathe this woman. I am a do-gooder in life and believe in not putting out negative energy but I just can't help it with this woman. I just read a book of Bull **** so yeah she is butt ugly, low class, a wanna-be and a back stabber and a 100 other ****ty things. So I think Karma will forgive my tiny moment of bashing Carol Ann and my lack of class for 5 min. I was thrilled to see she looked like a bad blow up doll compared to the perfection of Stevie.

It's been more than 5 minutes.

[Wynne]

Some of it's called a dark sense of humor people. I don't hate her, I just loathe her. Don't you know someone in life or a celebrity you loathe? I am sure you can pick one out. It's kind of like, when you watch Miley lick everything, you kind of loathe her? It's how I feel about Carol added with a sense of humor. She sucks and she is a liar. Period

[Wynne]

It's been more than 5 minutes.

You are right, I am so very sorry. I lost track of time with my tiny little female brain, my raunchy filthy post was just filled with sin and I will go reflect on my excitement over seeing Carols big nose ugly face now, thank you so much again for pointing this out to me Lindsfan :angel:

[redtulip]

Some of it's called a dark sense of humor people. I don't hate her, I just loathe her. Don't you know someone in life or a celebrity you loathe? I am sure you can pick one out. It's kind of like, when you watch Miley lick everything, you kind of loathe her? It's how I feel about Carol added with a sense of humor. She sucks and she is a liar. Period

I have a few celebrities that annoy me, but I've never felt the need to spew hate about them on a message board. I'd rather focus my time on things that make me happy. Like this:

http://i39.tinypic.com/23m5tn4.jpg

[Wynne]

I am sure a lot of women on this board had the same thoughts running in their head when they saw that video. I am very very angry at this book. I am in the middle of it and see so many bad things and when I saw the footage clearly showing all her lies I became very angry. I hate liars, and I thought at first she was telling the truth, and I got very excited to see her a little miserable for all the misery she caused with this book. Its very hurtful and full of misleading things. I was reading parts of it to my son and now none of it or half of it is true, so yeah it made me really angry. It made me look at Lindsey in a bad light and now I don't know what to believe. These people were my hero's so carol sucks pretty bad IMO, but yes I would rather concentrate on the good of FM. I should have never ever read this book. I kind of cried at the parts where she claims he abused her. I had a different image in my head about Lindsey all these years and she pretty much left a question mark over everything that is him. Also, after skimming through this whole Carol thread I see a lot of the same views about Carol so I won't loose to much sleep over bashing her

[Lindsfan]

I am sure a lot of women on this board had the same thoughts running in their head when they saw that video. I am very very angry at this book. I am in the middle of it and see so many bad things and when I saw the footage clearly showing all her lies I became very angry. I hate liars, and I thought at first she was telling the truth, and I got very excited to see her a little miserable for all the misery she caused with this book. Its very hurtful and full of misleading things. I was reading parts of it to my son and now none of it or half of it is true, so yeah it made me really angry. It made me look at Lindsey in a bad light and now I don't know what to believe. These people were my hero's so carol sucks pretty bad IMO, but yes I would rather concentrate on the good of FM. I should have never ever read this book. I kind of cried at the parts where she claims he abused her. I had a different image in my head about Lindsey all these years and she pretty much left a question mark over everything that is him.

Yes, you already mentioned, several times, how excited you get at other peoples' misery. The rest of this post is a complete change of tone, though.
First you said you were joking, and now you say you 're angry. :shrug: Either way, maybe you should do a little less reading?

And more looking at this:
http://i39.tinypic.com/23m5tn4.jpg[/QUOTE]

[vivfox]

Don played guitar.

Actually, Don played drums.

[Lindsfan]

Actually, Don played drums.

He plays guitar too.

[michelej1]

He plays guitar too.

Ooooh, sounds like Don has it all.

Michele

[vivfox]

He plays guitar too.


Ziggy plays guitar.:lol:

[vivfox]

Why were all of her pictures dark and blurry anyway? I know she had some better pictures than that.

I always wondered why no one else ever said this.

[vivfox]

Yes, you already mentioned, several times, how excited you get at other peoples' misery.


Why do you keep picking on the newbie? Let her hate Carol Ann if she wants to.

[Sapphire Girl]

Some of it's called a dark sense of humor people. I don't hate her, I just loathe her. Don't you know someone in life or a celebrity you loathe? I am sure you can pick one out. It's kind of like, when you watch Miley lick everything, you kind of loathe her? It's how I feel about Carol added with a sense of humor. She sucks and she is a liar. Period

When Miley Cyrus is naked & licks a hammer it’s “art” and “music”.. but when I do it, I’m “wasted” and “have to leave Home Depot”

http://annadoeskorea.tumblr.com/post/61177326160/benny-the-jet-55-when-miley-cyrus-is-naked


When did that episode of that plastic surgery show first air?

[Wynne]

I don't get off on "other" peoples misery. However I sure do on Carol. One person. Singular not plural. A little less reading? I don't think so, I am enjoying everything I missed out on and am getting to the truth of everything. My thrill over her misery has faded, I am now reading other posts about a different FM topic. Thanks for the concern. Since you went over every word with a fine comb. I will break it down. Drum roll....... ANGER.... Sadness.... Thrills and chills.... Wild Excitement..... Massive dark humor....ALL in a moment. It's gone and I am steady, but I still think Carol is pitiful and pathetic as a female and human being with a massive nose. I say this because she went to all that trouble to fix her face but left two holes in her nose that beer bottles could fit in..... Namaste

[Wynne]

[QUOTE=Nico;811724]Interesting. So Stevie isn't a natural blonde. I'm wondering if that was her decision or if Lindsey was as controlling then as he apparently still is (what with the SYW clothing demands)

Can someone answer what the SYW clothing demands were about?

[Wynne]

When did that episode of that plastic surgery show first air?[/QUOTE]
I think I heard it was 2003 but I think I am way off, I don't even want to think about what she looks like in 2013-14. Strange she ended with with another music guy who looked a lot younger than her. Like 20 years younger. Someone told me there is a video of her wildly crying on some talk show as well about her looks? Not positive though. I wish I would have read this thread before I read the book, I never would have read it.

[iamnotafraid]

Can someone answer what the SYW clothing demands were about?


Lindsey apparently has a thing for grandmas.

[CADreaming]

I always wondered why no one else ever said this.

A few did, but it gets overlooked for other more conversation worthy topics. Maybe she just didn't have her glasses on when she took them. It's sad to think those were the only pictures from those years she was able to publish.

Also, I know it's all about Carol but I liked Stevie's SYW sweater. :shrug:

[Deeshere]

I try not to get too interested into the lives of Fleetwood Mac members, but I did receive this book as a gift and gave it a read. I'm a fan of Lindsey Buckingham the musician. And I think the man himself is personally interesting, as far as I find any other genius musician goes. So let me just put that out there first. Yet as someone with various experiences and knowledge on domestic violence, this book was of more interest to me in that regards, especially considering Harris' mindset when she wrote it.

Autobiographies deal mostly with perspectives (in other words, every autobiography is going to have inaccuracies and subjective accounts). While I felt that the author exaggerated in areas for effect and was likely inaccurate in her details, I personally didn't feel that she was lying about Lindsey being an abusive man during this time period. Not only by what she says explicitly, but rather implicitly as well. His characteristics and behaviors, without her even meaning to at times, really do describe the behaviors associated with men who are abusive. He had control and anger issues, and those issues have been documented/corroborated by others as well. Some of his lyrics also seem to reflect this mindset, and while not something you should rely on exclusively, the way he held her (the stern hugs (holds rather) around her neck) and his sometimes aggressive nature in bed seem to be consistent with the body language of abusive men. So much of what I read from Harris herself, her behaviors and mindset, are similar to that of victimized women as well. She blamed herself a lot, and forgave him way too easily; and even when the book was written, had a habit of apologizing for him (which shocked me, honestly). She never really took him to task for his abusive behavior or provided any sort of reflection on being a victim of abuse.

If you want to focus on proof, she did provide outside witnesses that could have easily discounted her allegations. Two of the moments that stick out to me were moments where the band members saw Lindsey abusing Carol. I don't remember either of them clearly (so I could be off), but in one scene, Carol describes Lindsey angrily threatening and pulling her towards their vehicle. Carol goes on to describe that as Lindsey was pulling her, she saw Stevie's concerned reaction (this actually touched me as I also read it as "knowing" reaction on Stevie's part, who I think from experience knew what Carol was going through.) If I remember correctly though, Carol expressed how it looked as if Stevie was going to possibly intervene but her friends seemed to have pulled her away. And everyone else just basically looked the other way.

The other moment I remember was when she described how Lindsey was dragging her by the hair in the car right in front of Christine, and when Lindsey let go and left, Christine, clearly shakened, helped her up afterwards. I don't remember what really happened after that, but I'm pretty sure Lindsey probably apologized and Carol accepted it, but nobody held Lindsey accountable for that (which is a totally different discussion). But what struck me with that scene was how after he first hit her, Carol ran after him basically trying to explain and justify herself (again, typical behavior patterns within abusive relationships)

Not only does she show that there were witnesses to this violence, but it really demonstrates their mindsets. Most woman, if slapped or hit, aren't going to run to the man who hit him and trying to explain or justify themselves, begging for him to listen. She constantly excuses him, and rarely demonizes him for his actions.

I'm not trying to start any sort of argument about Lindsey Buckingham (personally, I believe abusive men can be rehabilitated), but I think people should be a little more aware of the realities of domestic violence, and the mindsets involved and should not be so quick to dismiss her story on those accounts. We're all fans of FM and should be aware of the biases we have going into reading this. Sociologically, her description of the pattern of reactions and behaviors seems pretty consistent throughout. And not to criticize Harris, but she doesn't seem creative enough to be able to make all of this up, especially considering how much she reveals without even meaning to.

Anyway, my two cents.

Also, thought I'd throw this in here considering the topic:

http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/warning_signs.html

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm

I agree with your assessment that abused women take up for their abusers and hide proof, I've even seen it happen first hand. Also, please understand this. I'm NOT OK with ANY Form form of abuse, whether it be to a man, woman or child and whether it be physical or mental. I think all abusers should have to suffer the same kind of abuse they gave to their victims.

But honesty the degree of physical abuse and the amount of people that Carol claims either witnessed the abuse or saw her bleeding an bruised shortly there after makes me doubt her.

She claims that after the incident of Lindsey pulling her hair out while driving away in his car, she went bloodied an bruised to a hotel and that the guy at the desk just asked her if she was OK?!?!? He never said/did anything else, just gave her the keys to her room and let her go on her way?

She even claims her OWN DAM* DOCTOR KNEW she was being abused by Lindsey and HE NEVER DID ANYTHING? Just gave her fatherly advice that she needed to get out of the relationship !?!? If it was like she claims (and she said he beat her pretty badly) if her own doctor didn't at least TRY TO INTERVENE and she ended up DYEING, THAT'S A LAWSUIT WAITING TO HAPPEN. MAYBE EVEN AN MALPRACTICE CASE AS WELL.

According to Carol's book EVERYONE knew of the abuse (accept the police) and NO ONE talked to her about it or tried to help her in any way, NOT EVEN HER OWN FRIENDS?!?! I mean WTF is that about ?!?!

Plus like I said before there are SO MANY obvious gaps in her book, it's hard to know what really happened. There are so many stories she brings up and then drops. Again like what Lindsey said/did when he found out about Mick and Stevie's affair (my guess is he flipped) and also what he said/did when he found out about Robin's death just to name two of them.

Whether she left significant parts out of her book on purpose, because her memory was fuzzy or maybe she didn't remember some incidences altogether (because she was too stoned) only she can say. But if her memory was fuzzy or she can't remember some incidences it only reinforces the fact that her stories maybe skewed, and if she left the stories out on purpose then that shows that there was a lot more to the story than Carol is willing to tell/admit too.

I'm not saying Lindsey is a great guy. I believe he can be a total and complete nightmare to be around when he wants to be. I'm also not saying the abuse didn't happen or that it couldn't have happened and everyone IS ALLOWED to tell their story. But if you are going to bash someone in a book (and she clearly was bashing Lindsey in this book) then you better make sure your facts are straight and that you come clean with EVERYTHING YOU DID TOO or it is makes your story less believable and makes it appear that your mad you got dumped and this is just payback.

[Deeshere]

I am sure a lot of women on this board had the same thoughts running in their head when they saw that video. I am very very angry at this book. I am in the middle of it and see so many bad things and when I saw the footage clearly showing all her lies I became very angry. I hate liars, and I thought at first she was telling the truth, and I got very excited to see her a little miserable for all the misery she caused with this book. Its very hurtful and full of misleading things. I was reading parts of it to my son and now none of it or half of it is true, so yeah it made me really angry. It made me look at Lindsey in a bad light and now I don't know what to believe. These people were my hero's so carol sucks pretty bad IMO, but yes I would rather concentrate on the good of FM. I should have never ever read this book. I kind of cried at the parts where she claims he abused her. I had a different image in my head about Lindsey all these years and she pretty much left a question mark over everything that is him. Also, after skimming through this whole Carol thread I see a lot of the same views about Carol so I won't loose to much sleep over bashing her

Honey STOP, STOP STOP... I'm not a fan of Carol myself and I was shocked by a lot of what I read in her book. But to be fair we don't know how much of it is true or not true.

You want to concentrate on the good of FM...Uh..mmm... well honestly except for the amazing music I'm not sure there was a lot of good behind the scenes. The band did contribute to several charities though so that's good. :nod::nod:

Don't take everything you read in the book so hard, I think Carol left A LOT of information out about what really happened OUT and I'm still not convinced Lindsey beat her up like she clams.

I think it's clear that Carol got WAY too caught up in Lindsey's fame and CLEARLY ENJOYED the perks of being his girlfriend TOO MUCH. I'm not even talking sexually (though I'm sure that was amazing) Carol obviously enjoyed the power she had being Lindsey girlfriend, she was also the envy of thousands of women all over the world (that's a major ego trip in it's self) and I'm sure the money and traveling was really nice too.

Lindsey claimed back in the 80's that he HAD TO HAVE CAROL REMOVED FROM HIS HOUSE, because she REFUSED to leave. Lindsey also mentioned in an interview back in the 90's that Carol was still calling him and wanting to get back together with him up until 1995. So to me all of this makes her story very suspicious, but in NO WAY does is make her a liar. Lindsey could have very well done everything she claims he did.

I don't want this post to appear like I am blaming the victim, and trying to vindicate the abuser, but I'm just not sure Carol is THE VICTIM. To me until she tells THE WHOLE STORY and NOT JUST PARTS OF IT. I have to hold what she says about Lindsey as unsubstantiated, and suspect and I can't truly believe it. However, if I'm proven wrong I will be the FIRST one to admit it and take back everything I've said about her.

[Wynne]

Lindsey claimed back in the 80's that he HAD TO HAVE CAROL REMOVED FROM HIS HOUSE, because she REFUSED to leave. Lindsey also mentioned in an interview back in the 90's that Carol was still calling him and wanting to get back together with him up until 1995. So to me all of this makes her story very suspicious, but in NO WAY does is make her a liar. Lindsey could have very well done everything she claims he did.

Wow I had no idea of those incidents. It sounds like this woman sadly has some major issues. I Had my 5 min of making fun of her but I guess I feel sorry for someone so un-together with themselves. I think maybe a tiny bit of abuse happened but I have a gut feeling she may have brought out some bad sides with Lindsey. Dealing with a person who is on drugs and out of control can't be easy and it seems like she got out of control. Sometimes people just snap. I do not think Lindsey is an abuser at all. Heck I have lost my temper and chased one of my husbands down the road in a car while he was on foot running. Its clear after reading this whole thread that the book is lacking the whole truth etc and I am just going to shrug my shoulders about it and throw it away. I wonder if Carol ever read these threads.

[Wynne]

Sorry one last question. Lindsey made Stevie wear the sweater on the cover for SYW? Is there some big story behind it? Did Stevie not want to? Also there is a poster this has a line on all their posts that quotes Lindsey as saying "She has an something femininity" Was he referring to Stevie? Also in the go insane song when he says "She's a lot like you" Was her referring to Stevie and Carol?

[lovethemac1]

What ever happened to the kitty that her "love knew no bounds about?" I wonder if she took the kitty with her when she moved out.:shrug:

[michelej1]

Is there some big story behind it?

No, there is no story behind it. Stevie did an interview with Jim Ladd in 2005 when she was going to hit Caesar's Palace and she had a new wardrobe for Vegas and in that interview she said:

"Mr Buckingham is never crazy about my flamboyant shows. His comment to me was 'Can't you be just a little more casual?' So I became more casual for the Fleetwood Mac shows, but this is different, this is Las Vegas, my grandmother would have said, 'This is the circus.' "

From this one vague comment that he said to her, "Can you be more casual," people have leaped to the conclusion that Lindsey dictated her wardrobe. During the SYW tour, some people described one of the tops she wore as an Italian Granny sweater. They did not like it. Therefore, when Stevie made this comment to Jim Ladd they said, "Lindsey is the one who forced her to wear that granny sweater," although Stevie herself never said anything other than that Lindsey asked if she couldn't be more casual. She certainly never indicated that he selected her wardrobe pieces beyond wondering if she could dress a little more casually.

Michele

[vivfox]

Sorry one last question. Lindsey made Stevie wear the sweater on the cover for SYW? Is there some big story behind it?

Welcome to Fleetwood Mac 101.

Lindsey put a gun to Stevie's head in 1973 and forced her to go topless for the Buckingham Nicks cover. He forced her to dress like a witch for the cover of Rumours. He made her throw her head back for the cover of Mirage even though Stevie didn't think she could because her head was cut off in another life. He made her lay down on top of an old broken down piano for the cover of The Dance and he forced her onto the ground for the cover of SYW. He was also influential on her solo covers also. He directed every photo session. He forced her to hold the bird for the cover of Bella Donna, forced her to combine more than one pic for the cover of WH. Forced her into a skin tight coat for the cover of RAL. The story goes that he had to lay her down on the floor to get her into that one. He wasn't around for the rest of her albums though.

[Deeshere]

Welcome to Fleetwood Mac 101.

Lindsey put a gun to Stevie's head in 1973 and forced her to go topless for the Buckingham Nicks cover. He forced her to dress like a witch for the cover of Rumours. He made her throw her head back for the cover of Mirage even though Stevie didn't think she could because her head was cut off in another life. He made her lay down on top of an old broken down piano for the cover of The Dance and he forced her onto the ground for the cover of SYW. He was also influential on her solo covers also. He directed every photo session. He forced her to hold the bird for the cover of Bella Donna, forced her to combine more than one pic for the cover of WH. Forced her into a skin tight coat for the cover of RAL. The story goes that he had to lay her down on the floor to get her into that one. He wasn't around for the rest of her albums though.

Very funny :lol::lol:

but the story about the Buckingham nicks album cover was true (not the fact that he held a gun to her) but Stevie says that Lindsey really pressured her to go topless in that photo shoot and told her to stop being a baby. She said he even started to take her top off himself. Hmmm... nice visual..

No she DIDN'T HAVE TO DO IT, I'm sure if she really protested enough Lindsey would have laid off her and when her parents saw the album cover Stevie blamed Lindsey for it. She said she told her father she did it because she didn't feel like she had a choice, not to and her father said to her she could have JUST SAID NO. Stevie said it was after that she decided she was never going to let someone push her into doing something she did not want to do. BUT I know you know all this Viv... ;)

[Deeshere]

Heck I have lost my temper and chased one of my husbands down the road in a car while he was on foot running.

YOU DID WHAT ?!?! :shocked::shocked: Holy Crap... we may need to get you some counseling. :lol::lol:

For the records I'm glad you let him go and didn't finish what you started. ;)

[michelej1]

Very funny :lol::lol:

but the story about the Buckingham nicks album cover was true (not the fact that he held a gun to her) but Stevie says that Lindsey really pressured her to go topless in that photo shoot and told her to stop being a baby. She said he even started to take her top off himself. Hmmm... nice visual..



I never heard or read about the part of him trying to take the top off himself only her saying he was angry and told her to stop acting like a baby. I do recall that from what she said, it seemed like she learned ahead of time that the photographers wanted her topless and she agreed to that, but maybe thought she could talk them out of it when they got to the day itself, which is probably why she bought the top, thinking "once they see this, they won't want to see my breasts!'

Michele

[lovethemac1]

Welcome to Fleetwood Mac 101.

Lindsey put a gun to Stevie's head in 1973 and forced her to go topless for the Buckingham Nicks cover. He forced her to dress like a witch for the cover of Rumours. He made her throw her head back for the cover of Mirage even though Stevie didn't think she could because her head was cut off in another life. He made her lay down on top of an old broken down piano for the cover of The Dance and he forced her onto the ground for the cover of SYW. He was also influential on her solo covers also. He directed every photo session. He forced her to hold the bird for the cover of Bella Donna, forced her to combine more than one pic for the cover of WH. Forced her into a skin tight coat for the cover of RAL. The story goes that he had to lay her down on the floor to get her into that one. He wasn't around for the rest of her albums though.


I love it!!! Very funny.

[michelej1]

Here's what Stevie said about the album cover in BAM from 1981:

[She points to the cover of the 1973 Buckingham Nicks album, a photo of a topless Nicks posed behind a bare-chested Buckingham.] I mean, that cover is about as close to selling the music on sex as you'll ever get, and I was crying when we took that picture. And Lindsey was mad at me. He said, "You know, you're just being a child. This is art." And I'm going, "This is not art. This is taking a nude photograph with you, and I don't dig it."

Could you have refused?

I tried. I tried to say no. We were really poor when we took that picture, and I went out and spent my last $111 on a really beautiful, very sexy blouse. And they agreed to do half of the session in the blouse, and I thought, "Oh, I'll win. They'll love this blouse, and they're gonna love the way I look." Well, halfway through the session, one of the photographers came over and said, "Okay, it's time to take off the blouse," and I died. It was awful, you know. And afterwards my father said to me, "Did you want to do this?" And I said no. And he said, "Then why did you do it?" And I said, "Because I was literally forced to do it, Dad." And he said, "Well, I'll tell you what you could have done. You coulda just said no." And he's right. I coulda said no. I have never forgotten that. And maybe that has a lot to do with why I went from that [points to the cover of Fleetwood Mac's Rumours LP, where she's in a long dress and veils]. Because I said, "All right, that's it. We're gonna work this out so that I still have an image and a vibe, but instead of going in the direction that a lot of the women singers are going in now, I'll be very, very sexy under 18 pounds of chiffon and lace and velvet. And nobody will know what I really am. I will have a mystique. None of these other people will have a mystique, but I will." And I have that mystique. That's one thing that I'm real proud of.

[getTusked]

one thing i would give you heads up about is that even though the rest of the book may be horribly written entertaining highly romanticized fluff sprinkled with some interesting tidbits, be prepared you may definitely get off LB fandom wagon for a while when reading those abuse stories, if you believe they are even partially true.

you can probably read the book for free on google books or somewhere instead of getting it.

Thanks to everyone for all the input! And you brought up another interesting conversation...what do all the Lindsey diehards think of the abuse stories?! Elle, did you fall off the bandwagon for a while? And for those of you who have met LB...do you see a different man? He totally seems different now...but I have not yet talked to him!

[HelloMonster]

Thanks to everyone for all the input! And you brought up another interesting conversation...what do all the Lindsey diehards think of the abuse stories?! Elle, did you fall off the bandwagon for a while? And for those of you who have met LB...do you see a different man? He totally seems different now...but I have not yet talked to him!


Lindsey is very warm and kind. He is easy to talk to, and isn't afraid of getting too close to regular people. He's not a "distant handshake, now take the picture" kind of guy. Lots of smiles, and chit chat! Really, a very, very nice man.
I would never guess he is the same person once described as being violent.

...And he's drop dead gorgeous. Smells good too ;)

[Deeshere]

Here's what Stevie said about the album cover in BAM from 1981:

[She points to the cover of the 1973 Buckingham Nicks album, a photo of a topless Nicks posed behind a bare-chested Buckingham.] I mean, that cover is about as close to selling the music on sex as you'll ever get, and I was crying when we took that picture. And Lindsey was mad at me. He said, "You know, you're just being a child. This is art." And I'm going, "This is not art. This is taking a nude photograph with you, and I don't dig it."

Could you have refused?

I tried. I tried to say no. We were really poor when we took that picture, and I went out and spent my last $111 on a really beautiful, very sexy blouse. And they agreed to do half of the session in the blouse, and I thought, "Oh, I'll win. They'll love this blouse, and they're gonna love the way I look." Well, halfway through the session, one of the photographers came over and said, "Okay, it's time to take off the blouse," and I died. It was awful, you know. And afterwards my father said to me, "Did you want to do this?" And I said no. And he said, "Then why did you do it?" And I said, "Because I was literally forced to do it, Dad." And he said, "Well, I'll tell you what you could have done. You coulda just said no." And he's right. I coulda said no. I have never forgotten that. And maybe that has a lot to do with why I went from that [points to the cover of Fleetwood Mac's Rumours LP, where she's in a long dress and veils]. Because I said, "All right, that's it. We're gonna work this out so that I still have an image and a vibe, but instead of going in the direction that a lot of the women singers are going in now, I'll be very, very sexy under 18 pounds of chiffon and lace and velvet. And nobody will know what I really am. I will have a mystique. None of these other people will have a mystique, but I will." And I have that mystique. That's one thing that I'm real proud of.

The part about Lindsey trying to take her top off during the BN album shoot is brand new. That bit of info just came out recently when Stevie was talking about BN being reissued. I will go back and see if I can find where I got that quote from and let you know.

[Lindsfan]

Why do you keep picking on the newbie? Let her hate Carol Ann if she wants to.

Because it's not in my nature to remain silent, when someone, repeatedly, professes joy at someone else's misery.

How is that picking on them? This is a discussion forum, and the "newbie" made more than a few explicit statements that I disagreed with. I replied to her. Why do you have a problem with that?

I don't get off on "other" peoples misery. However I sure do on Carol. One person. Singular not plural. A little less reading? I don't think so, I am enjoying everything I missed out on and am getting to the truth of everything. My thrill over her misery has faded, I am now reading other posts about a different FM topic. Thanks for the concern. Since you went over every word with a fine comb. I will break it down. Drum roll....... ANGER.... Sadness.... Thrills and chills.... Wild Excitement..... Massive dark humor....ALL in a moment. It's gone and I am steady, but I still think Carol is pitiful and pathetic as a female and human being with a massive nose. I say this because she went to all that trouble to fix her face but left two holes in her nose that beer bottles could fit in..... Namaste


I'm glad to hear you're feeling better.

We were having an interesting and thoughtful discussion on here, about a very serious topic. I didn't need a comb to find the plethora of comments, of yours, that I found offensive, and I'm well aware you have every right to say those things on here. I have the right to answer those comments, as well.

[elle]

another interesting conversation...what do all the Lindsey diehards think of the abuse stories?! Elle, did you fall off the bandwagon for a while?!
yes.

And for those of you who have met LB...do you see a different man? He totally seems different now...but I have not yet talked to him!
yes, that's what got me back on the wagon eventually. the fact that he seemed to have worked really hard to change and seems to be a completely different person now, completely incompatible with those old stories. i would hope that if they are even partially true, he found the way to redeem himself and make peace with anybody in his past who may have suffered from his abuse. if i believed for a second that he's still that same person from 35 years ago, that would be it for me, as far as LB fandom goes. similarly, people have touched upon this kind of stuff about John McVie recently too, and general agreement was that he is not anymore the mean drunk he was 35 years ago, and shouldn't be held accountable for it decades later if he changed.

as HelloMonster says below:

Lindsey is very warm and kind. He is easy to talk to, and isn't afraid of getting too close to regular people. He's not a "distant handshake, now take the picture" kind of guy. Lots of smiles, and chit chat! Really, a very, very nice man.
I would never guess he is the same person once described as being violent.

[Lindsfan]

Thanks to everyone for all the input! And you brought up another interesting conversation...what do all the Lindsey diehards think of the abuse stories?! Elle, did you fall off the bandwagon for a while? And for those of you who have met LB...do you see a different man? He totally seems different now...but I have not yet talked to him!

Lindsey is very warm and kind. He is easy to talk to, and isn't afraid of getting too close to regular people. He's not a "distant handshake, now take the picture" kind of guy. Lots of smiles, and chit chat! Really, a very, very nice man.
I would never guess he is the same person once described as being violent.

...And he's drop dead gorgeous. Smells good too ;)

HelloMonster said it perfectly :nod:

I believe he was abusive, though we really don't know for sure how much so, or what caused him to be that way. We don't really know how much she made up, etc., etc., and for me, I don't like to spend too much time digging into the past. If I judge him, it will be on who he is today, and hes's exactly like HM said! So, if he was as bad as we could possibly imagine, he's clearly made a lot of changes in his life, and anything else, as far as making it up to anyone (Carol, or anyone else), is his issue, not mine. I won't hold a man's past against him, 30 -40 years later, unless he gives me reason to think he is still the same person. I like the person I see today, and everyone around him - friends, family, acquaintances, people who meet him on the street - all seem to have nothing but nice things to say about him.

[michelej1]

The part about Lindsey trying to take her top off during the BN album shoot is brand new. That bit of info just came out recently when Stevie was talking about BN being reissued. I will go back and see if I can find where I got that quote from and let you know.

Oh, yes. Thanks for looking. I am very interested.

Michele

[Deeshere]

Here's what Stevie said about the album cover in BAM from 1981:

[She points to the cover of the 1973 Buckingham Nicks album, a photo of a topless Nicks posed behind a bare-chested Buckingham.] I mean, that cover is about as close to selling the music on sex as you'll ever get, and I was crying when we took that picture. And Lindsey was mad at me. He said, "You know, you're just being a child. This is art." And I'm going, "This is not art. This is taking a nude photograph with you, and I don't dig it."

Could you have refused?

I tried. I tried to say no. We were really poor when we took that picture, and I went out and spent my last $111 on a really beautiful, very sexy blouse. And they agreed to do half of the session in the blouse, and I thought, "Oh, I'll win. They'll love this blouse, and they're gonna love the way I look." Well, halfway through the session, one of the photographers came over and said, "Okay, it's time to take off the blouse," and I died. It was awful, you know. And afterwards my father said to me, "Did you want to do this?" And I said no. And he said, "Then why did you do it?" And I said, "Because I was literally forced to do it, Dad." And he said, "Well, I'll tell you what you could have done. You coulda just said no." And he's right. I coulda said no. I have never forgotten that. And maybe that has a lot to do with why I went from that [points to the cover of Fleetwood Mac's Rumours LP, where she's in a long dress and veils]. Because I said, "All right, that's it. We're gonna work this out so that I still have an image and a vibe, but instead of going in the direction that a lot of the women singers are going in now, I'll be very, very sexy under 18 pounds of chiffon and lace and velvet. And nobody will know what I really am. I will have a mystique. None of these other people will have a mystique, but I will." And I have that mystique. That's one thing that I'm real proud of.

Ok... for the moment I will redact my comment that Stevie said Lindsey helped take her shirt off during the BN photo shoot. There's a lot of interviews I have to go back through, and right now I can't find it. But I know I'm not crazy and I know I read she said it, because I she's never said it before and I thought it was odd. But until I find the quote, just disregard what I previously said.

[michelej1]

Ok... for the moment I will redact my comment that Stevie said Lindsey helped take her shirt off during the BN photo shoot. There's a lot of interviews I have to go back through, and right now I can't find it.

Yes, same happens to me. There's so much stuff out there, it can be like a needle in a haystack sometimes.

Michele

[Wynne]

My ex husband slapped me in the car, I kicked back, he took off running I followed him in the car while he ran like a bitch. I Just tried to graze him, not kill him. So I don't need counseling he deserved it. Anyway I feel Lindsey had some terrible issues he was dealing with when he was younger and did have rage and control issues that he has clearly fixed. I do not see him as an abuser and I think Carol would have driven most people to want to slap her. I would have a hard time not slapping her just from the look on her face. It offends me. Is it offensive to say so? Yes, in someone's face or in public. Is it offensive I find carol really ugly? No. We all see people that make us cringe just by appearance. I do not think Lindsey was abusive to Stevie or if he was not like he was to Carol. However no one was there so just a gut feeling. I don't see Stevie putting up with being back handed. I will assume Carol left out 90% of the drama she probably caused when Lindsey slapped her. Finding tapes that were recorded would send a lot of people in a violent rage. Carol's nose sure looked like it got bigger and bigger over the years. Karma for being a liar maybe

[McTrouble]

My ex husband slapped me in the car, I kicked back, he took off running I followed him in the car while he ran like a bitch. I Just tried to graze him, not kill him. So I don't need counseling he deserved it. Anyway I feel Lindsey had some terrible issues he was dealing with when he was younger and did have rage and control issues that he has clearly fixed. I do not see him as an abuser and I think Carol would have driven most people to want to slap her. I would have a hard time not slapping her just from the look on her face. It offends me. Is it offensive to say so? Yes, in someone's face or in public. Is it offensive I find carol really ugly? No. We all see people that make us cringe just by appearance. I do not think Lindsey was abusive to Stevie or if he was not like he was to Carol. However no one was there so just a gut feeling. I don't see Stevie putting up with being back handed. I will assume Carol left out 90% of the drama she probably caused when Lindsey slapped her. Finding tapes that were recorded would send a lot of people in a violent rage. Carol's nose sure looked like it got bigger and bigger over the years. Karma for being a liar maybe

WTF is going on here at The Ledge these days???????? :distress::distress::distress:

[elle]

WTF is going on here at The Ledge these days???????? :distress::distress::distress:

you are sorely missed Viv, that's what's going on.

[McTrouble]

you are sorely missed Viv, that's what's going on.

Aw! :xoxo:

All I can say is you and Lindsfan have more patience than me for dealing with the **** ;):rolleyes:

[Lindsfan]

Aw! :xoxo:

All I can say is you and Lindsfan have more patience than me for dealing with the **** ;):rolleyes:

:wavey: Awww, you know us well. It's good to see you here, Viv :blob1:

[McTrouble]

:wavey: Awww, you know us well. It's good to see you here, Viv :blob1:

It might be shortlived! :p:sorry:

[Wynne]

Aw! :xoxo:

All I can say is you and Lindsfan have more patience than me for dealing with the **** ;):rolleyes:

Lindsfan was offended by my clearly offensive ugly mean comments about Carol. I was reading the book for the 1st time and was very offended by her, I was given a link and became excited to see her look like hell for a few moments. For example, if Miley Cyrus was on stage licking everything and someone found it offensive and she fell in a pile of cow dung a lot of people would find a twinge of excitement to see her misery for a moment. That being said I don't wish harm or hate on this woman, I just cant stand her and I find her ugly. Everyone finds someone ugly. It seems to much was invested in this topic. I gave an example about people loosing their temper's. Like when I ran after my husband out of anger, even that was picked on. I have a dark sense of humor not everyone can relate to, but it's just an opinion. Clearly from what I have read on this forum people get picked apart even when they say saintly words quoted by Christ. So, might as well say what you're feeling because it will be picked apart no matter what. It's amusing to say the least. My PM box was full of people who had a laugh with me. Sorry if my offense offended but it does not change my mind about Carol. My comments on all other threads will never be offensive. I even commented how nice it would be to have Christine back and someone threw a ****ty jab. I don't mind, I knew this board would be full to the brim with catty swipes. I have thick skin so it slides off rather easy. Anyway Viv like the others said, "Welcome back" Sorry you had to come back to deal with such damnation: which this board has never seen before. Moving on to leave positive nice comments on other threads now, which will render catty comments :shrug:

[I'msoAfraid95]

My take on Carol( and people in general) is this:

I might not like him/her as a person, but they are still a human being, and deserve to be treated as such and with a little respect. I don't know Carol, so I can't judge her, but from I've gathered from the excerpts I've read of the book, I wouldn't enjoy her company too much.

[Wynne]

Because it's not in my nature to remain silent, when someone, repeatedly, professes joy at someone else's misery.

It was more like 30 min of joy, I enjoyed it.. Yep!

How is that picking on them? This is a discussion forum, and the "newbie" made more than a few explicit statements that I disagreed with. I replied to her. Why do you have a problem with that?

I don't feel picked on at all. I clearly know right from wrong. I know you were right for my actions, at the time I did not care, I was enjoying my joy, now I have no joy about it. It's more of a bland feeling now




I'm glad to hear you're feeling better.

We were having an interesting and thoughtful discussion on here, about a very serious topic. I didn't need a comb to find the plethora of comments, of yours, that I found offensive, and I'm well aware you have every right to say those things on here. I have the right to answer those comments, as well.

Yes you do have that right, and you can continue to berate me as much as you like. It's a free country

[Lindsfan]

My take on Carol( and people in general) is this:

I might not like him/her as a person, but they are still a human being, and deserve to be treated as such and with a little respect. I don't know Carol, so I can't judge her, but from I've gathered from the excerpts I've read of the book, I wouldn't enjoy her company too much.

I like your style :cool:

[I'msoAfraid95]

I like your style :cool:

Thanks. :). Now my face is red. :lol:

[sasja]

In my opinion only, often, what I hear someone say about another person, and the manner they say it in, tells me much more about that someone than about the person they are speaking of.
:]

[Wynne]

I guess people's opinions are clearly wrong a lot. I am an angel and never speak bad of anyone and believe in the most positive message and all things positive. However people are human and have cruddy sides. I had a cruddy moment where I judged someone. Every person on this site has looked at someone and thought they were ugly, vile, slutty, gross, stupid..... No one has pure thoughts 100% of the time. Again I stand by my original comments. My brain thinks Carol is an awful person and she is un-attractive. What does that say about me? :)

[getTusked]

This is what I have learned from reading this thread:

1. Carol Ann Harris clearly causes distress/trouble/confusion for just about everyone on this board.

2. Take this book with a huge bag...actually more like a dump truck full of salt (if I ever read it).

3. Lindsey tried to take Stevie's top off and I got excited

4. Everybody is glad that "Viv" is back.


I'm glad I joined the ledge. Always entertaining! :lol:

[McTrouble]

This is what I have learned from reading this thread:

1. Carol Ann Harris clearly causes distress/trouble/confusion for just about everyone on this board.

2. Take this book with a huge bag...actually more like a dump truck full of salt (if I ever read it).

3. Lindsey tried to take Stevie's top off and I got excited

4. Everybody is glad that "Viv" is back.


I'm glad I joined the ledge. Always entertaining! :lol:

Hello! But I'm not really back, well not full time! :wavey:

[luminol]

I'm resurrecting this old thread because I'm new and just finished reading Storms :) Sorry to be so behind the band wagon....!

I found the book to be entertaining, though I thought the level of detail in Carol's direct quotes from 40 years ago was laughably impossible... though, I actually do not dislike her after reading her book (I actually rather like her more than I thought I would!).

One thing I wanted to comment on is that I don't think she took cheap shots at Stevie much at all. There were a few moments (the birthday comment, for one), but on the whole, I thought she actually praised her frequently and also stood up for her creative prowess during the scene when Lindsey ripped apart Storms (the song) during the Tusk sessions. Just my feeling from the read.

It does paint quite the complex picture of Lindsey...

Again, sorry to bring this back up 3 years later, but I felt compelled to chat about the book with others who have read it since I just finished it :)

[vivfox]

I actually do not dislike her after reading her book (I actually rather like her more than I thought I would!)Again, sorry to bring this back up 3 years later, but I felt compelled to chat about the book with others who have read it since I just finished it :)

We are flattered when a new member searches out an old thread rather than starts a new one. This is the way we intended it to be. The cool thing about any good book is that, to its reader, it can be a new story, as if it were just written. Another new Ledgie could read this book 10 years from now and then add their comments in this thread.Therefore, no need to apologize. Welcome to The Ledge. We value your opinions.

A few months ago Carol Ann friended me on facebook. I've come to enjoy her posts. She is trying very hard to please the FM fans while reminding us that she too is a fan.

[lovethemac1]

Personally, I just loved her book. When I looked at her facebook site though, I couldn't help but wonder what her husband must think of it................it's dominated by Lindsey.

[welcomechris]

Carol Ann Posted This Today

<div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script>
<div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/carol.harris.1884787/posts/1414217082173930" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/carol.harris.1884787/posts/1414217082173930">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/carol.harris.1884787">Carol Ann Harris</a>.</div></div>

[brickney723]

Oh wow, that's on her Facebook. I've heard of a lot of fans being friended by her on FB..

So adding to the rest of her story: "And then he plays his new songs.. songs filled with the angst of lost love, desire, passion and anger for and about… his ex-girlfriend." So romantic.

[luminol]

I really enjoyed the book, too. I read it pretty quickly. I am rather intrigued with Carol Ann afterwards!

Thanks for sharing the Facebook post, welcomechris, and for the welcome, vivfox!

[bombaysaffires]

Here's the thing-- if Carol really wrote the book to deal with and heal from and address the domestic violence issue, then that's the book she should have written. What I mean is, she should have gone through her story of her time with Lindsey, but in telling it she should have applied her wisdom gained over time to point out where she should have recognized the signs of trouble in that relationship, what she would have done differently knowing what she knows now, and so on. Have some INSIGHTS. Instead, what we got was a gushy, breathless fangirl account that has some serious inaccuracies. There is no reflection in the book.. it's like really she wants to impress you with how she was somehow part of the band. Yes she was in the circle around the band. Yes she may well have supported Lindsey emotionally by catering to him during those years. What I would have be interested in were her thoughts about all that NOW-- why did she so willingly give up her self to be in that relationship? What did she do after she broke up with him to get back to a normal life? What were the red flags she missed? I mean, we all see them clear as day in her story and she never acknowledges them. Maybe a better editor could have helped it. who knows.

[nicole21290]

That lack of reflection was one of my major issues with the book (apart from deliberately omitting and changing the truth to imply a certain dynamic/whatever that evidently wasn't true....). She just seemed so strangely naiive about a lot of things. I felt like it was a young woman (who saw herself as, alternately, Lindsey's victim and his saviour) writing it, not someone much older who'd had a life since then and had THOUGHT about it. Instead, we get sections that really do read like flowery fanfiction.

And that's fine. Obviously, the conversations are constructed from memory and errors will slip through the cracks. Her attitude NOW, however, to anybody who thinks there might be errors is the huge claim that not a single WORD in that book is untrue. Which is just... Well, it's silly.

And I may be holding a little grudge because of her public insults to me but heigh ho, I maintain her position on the issue of truth is somewhat childish.

[Nicks Fan]

She also tried to add me as a friend on Facebook last year but I refused simply because I think it is weird to be friends with the ex of a mucisian you admire. There are friends of mine who are friends with her and also Kirsten Buckingham and I find it creepy. Why would you want to be friends with these people. I think that takes the level of fandom to a new degree of crazy.

[SisterNightroad]

I read this book on Google books a year ago and as an aspiring psychologist I found it insulting, detrimental and prejudicial to abuse victims and even people that never got abused because it romanticize an unhealthy relationship and lifestyle.
I got the feeling that she wrote her real views on what happened and the publisher wanted to take advantage of it, pushing the most scandalous details to get the most money possible and to the point of not caring about the effective accuracy of the facts.
By the way I don't think that Carol is bad or mean, I think she really delusionally believes that her book can be of example, it's really possible people have written to her because the book helped them but, if it did, it helped them in not ever wanting to do anything that Carol did.

[Nicks Fan]

What troubles me is that she actually thinks this book is some healer for victims of abuse. That is a very dangerous thing to say because nowhere in that book do I find any real serious words of wisdom or advice for someone who is suffering from abuse.

[Danigirl]

Carols' book was one of my favorites of all the FM related books I've read. Yes, money was a factor c'mon, it makes the world go round! As far as the abuse, Carol was a 21 year old young woman, I can say that how she portrayed her experience is how many young woman would given her situation and age at the time. It's a very unique experience to be the gf of a member of one of the biggest bands in the world. I really admire the fact that instead of allowing many years of callused bitterness (although I'm sure there was some) to cloud the true emotions she felt at the time, she told it how it was, and I found that authentic. Speaking personally, I could relate in many ways to how she felt being in an abusive relationship. Maybe that's why It hit home?

In some sort of weird way vindication even closure might have been the driving force as opposed to just monetary gain. I'm glad I got to read about that side of Lindsey, and I don't judge him in the least bit because we all make mistakes and have our own struggles we're dealing with. Because Lindsey is so private, I actually really appreciated learning the good the bad and the ugly from someone as close to him as Carol.

The one that irked me... Carol gosh darn it, you slept with Dennis Wilson! She couldn't be upfront with it and in doing so made me discredit her a bit.

[SisterNightroad]

I think that if really Carol wrote the book with that kind of vindication on mind than it should be held even less as a good help for people that suffered abuse.

[vivfox]

The one that irked me... Carol gosh darn it, you slept with Dennis Wilson! She couldn't be upfront with it and in doing so made me discredit her a bit.

She says Dennis had a secret crush on her and that she found out YEARS later(maybe even recently) that DW had stolen a pic of her and had it in his private collection.CAH says she did not sleep with Dennis and I believe her. Who would it hurt now if she were to tell people that she did?

[jbrownsjr]

She says Dennis had a secret crush on her and that she found out YEARS later(maybe even recently) that DW had stolen a pic of her and had it in his private collection.CAH says she did not sleep with Dennis and I believe her. Who would it hurt now if she were to tell people that she did?

It wouldn't hurt anyone. I heard from someone very close to the band he slept with everyone. Surprised he didn't do Lindsey.. lol

[Danigirl]

She says Dennis had a secret crush on her and that she found out YEARS later(maybe even recently) that DW had stolen a pic of her and had it in his private collection.CAH says she did not sleep with Dennis and I believe her. Who would it hurt now if she were to tell people that she did?

Maybe her ever so fragile ego as the martyr, faithful, poor rock girl friend. Pride knows no boundaries.

[michelej1]

Maybe her ever so fragile ego as the martyr, faithful, poor rock girl friend. Pride knows no boundaries.

You're right. I think it does undermine the image of herself she was creating for the book.

I mean, from the opening pages when she and her sisters are sitting in their cozy home reading classic literature and stroking cats, it's clear that she is painting a particular portrait of herself and sleeping with Dennis Wilson, while in a committed relationship with someone else, would have marred that painting.

I don't really know if she slept with Dennis or not, but I do know she was trying to portray an innocent image of herself.

Michele

[elle]

i'm not really sure why people are so up in arms about Carol or the value of her book. it's her life, it's her story, and as a part of her healing process she had every right to write that story.

sure you can argue whether or not the book is valuable literature, whether there are inaccuracies in it, and sure there would be no interest in publishing it in the first place if it didn't involve famous people. speaking about famous and what may sell, obviously LB's name alone was not recognizable enough since that "and FM" in the title seems tacked on as an afterthought. none of this takes away from her right to heal. and there certainly are some vividly told interesting snippets from band's life in that book.

[lovethemac1]

The one that irked me... Carol gosh darn it, you slept with Dennis Wilson! She couldn't be upfront with it and in doing so made me discredit her a bit.[/QUOTE]

How did you find this out?? (Not disputing you, just curious)

She says Dennis had a secret crush on her and that she found out YEARS later(maybe even recently) that DW had stolen a pic of her and had it in his private collection.CAH says she did not sleep with Dennis and I believe her. Who would it hurt now if she were to tell people that she did?

How did you find this out???? (Not disputing you, just curious)

I'm such a gossip geek. I truly found her book the most interesting read, it feels like you were part of the times back then, and living with FM. And I also will admit to loving it because of the gossipy nature that it is. (Probably my favorite topic on the Ledge :sorry:)Maybe she felt that by telling her story, she would be able to convince other women in abusive relationships that it is ok to leave? That could be dangerous in some relationships however, but she isn't a saint or a psychologist, and didn't work with any professionals to produce this book. Just her own sense of cleansing and therefore helping maybe?????

[lovethemac1]

You're right. I think it does undermine the image of herself she was creating for the book.

I mean, from the opening pages when she and her sisters are sitting in their cozy home reading classic literature and stroking cats, it's clear that she is painting a particular portrait of herself and sleeping with Dennis Wilson, while in a committed relationship with someone else, would have marred that painting.

I don't really know if she slept with Dennis or not, but I do know she was trying to portray an innocent image of herself.

Michele

I like this comment!!!

[Danigirl]

The one that irked me... Carol gosh darn it, you slept with Dennis Wilson! She couldn't be upfront with it and in doing so made me discredit her a bit.

How did you find this out?? (Not disputing you, just curious[/QUOTE]

Pure speculation but, I just don't find it logical that two individuals alone in a hotel room, with cocaine, and attraction for one another as well as the obligation of retrieving ice for one of the individuals significant other, would feel the need to talk and listen to music for that time being. Given DW's reputation and CAH's straying away from Lindsey by this time (because of the drugs, abuse, rock star lifestyle) I really beleive they did have an affair. Another thing that I recently read/heard that made me see things in a differnt light was that mega groupie "Sweet Annie" who claims to have had relations with Lindsey during the Tusk recording sessions. Infedelity was never mentioned in her book, and I presume CAH was very aware, and caused her to resent it and perhaps play the same card. It just made it all the more realistic.

[vivfox]

How did you find this out???? (Not disputing you, just curious)

I don't mind the question. CAH and I are FB friend's. She recently made a public post about this subject.

[lovethemac1]

How did you find this out?? (Not disputing you, just curious

Pure speculation but, I just don't find it logical that two individuals alone in a hotel room, with cocaine, and attraction for one another as well as the obligation of retrieving ice for one of the individuals significant other, would feel the need to talk and listen to music for that time being. Given DW's reputation and CAH's straying away from Lindsey by this time (because of the drugs, abuse, rock star lifestyle) I really beleive they did have an affair. Another thing that I recently read/heard that made me see things in a differnt light was that mega groupie "Sweet Annie" who claims to have had relations with Lindsey during the Tusk recording sessions. Infedelity was never mentioned in her book, and I presume CAH was very aware, and caused her to resent it and perhaps play the same card. It just made it all the more realistic.[/QUOTE]


Ahhhhhh, that makes sense. And considering her probable insecurities regarding his feelings for Stevie as well. She didn't come out and say as much in the book, but it seemed just under the surface. And she had to have noticed.

[lovethemac1]

I don't mind the question. CAH and I are FB friend's. She recently made a public post about this subject.

Interesting. Thank you!!!

[jbrownsjr]

i'm not really sure why people are so up in arms about Carol or the value of her book. it's her life, it's her story, and as a part of her healing process she had every right to write that story.

sure you can argue whether or not the book is valuable literature, whether there are inaccuracies in it, and sure there would be no interest in publishing it in the first place if it didn't involve famous people. speaking about famous and what may sell, obviously LB's name alone was not recognizable enough since that "and FM" in the title seems tacked on as an afterthought. none of this takes away from her right to heal. and there certainly are some vividly told interesting snippets from band's life in that book.

Really? You have no idea why she would get attacked by a certain insecure group of people? lol... (Being sarcastic with you xoxo):xoxo:

[bombaysaffires]

Listen, Carol can write anything she wants. And yes, I read the book, and yes I totally enjoyed the gossip aspects of it.

But having read it allows me to have my own opinion about what I read. And an opinion when the author comes out and says the book was about one topic when, having read it, I didn't find in the book what she claims.

Maybe some people are insecure about Carol, but I'm certainly not one of them. That's such a fascinating internet defense mechanism… if someone has a different opinion they are a "hater" or "jealous". Please. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Should Carol care what people say? No. It's her life and she can say and do whatever she wants. Does that mean other people aren't entitled to talk about it? Of course not. When you put stuff out in the public domain, that's the risk you take. These aren't private letters that somehow leaked out. She PUT it all out there. And that invites people to talk about it. I hope she didn't think it would mean people would automatically fawn over her. She's been around fame long enough to know better.

I hope she's happy and in a far healthier relationship. But other than rehashing "He did this or that to me" I don't see her actively educating anyone about dealing with domestic violence. She doesn't own her part in it. Not that she made him hit her or anything like that. That's on him and all his issues. But why she stayed is a lot about her own issues, and I just thought that at least at the end of the book it would have been beneficial for her to offer some insights about what she learned about herself in all that. ymmv

[Nicks Fan]

Listen, Carol can write anything she wants. And yes, I read the book, and yes I totally enjoyed the gossip aspects of it.

But having read it allows me to have my own opinion about what I read. And an opinion when the author comes out and says the book was about one topic when, having read it, I didn't find in the book what she claims.

Maybe some people are insecure about Carol, but I'm certainly not one of them. That's such a fascinating internet defense mechanism… if someone has a different opinion they are a "hater" or "jealous". Please. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Should Carol care what people say? No. It's her life and she can say and do whatever she wants. Does that mean other people aren't entitled to talk about it? Of course not. When you put stuff out in the public domain, that's the risk you take. These aren't private letters that somehow leaked out. She PUT it all out there. And that invites people to talk about it. I hope she didn't think it would mean people would automatically fawn over her. She's been around fame long enough to know better.

I hope she's happy and in a far healthier relationship. But other than rehashing "He did this or that to me" I don't see her actively educating anyone about dealing with domestic violence. She doesn't own her part in it. Not that she made him hit her or anything like that. That's on him and all his issues. But why she stayed is a lot about her own issues, and I just thought that at least at the end of the book it would have been beneficial for her to offer some insights about what she learned about herself in all that. ymmv


That is exactly how I feel. Yes she was a witness to allot of things and no one can take that away from her. She is entitled to write what she wants but it seems like she thinks we are hitting below the belt if we chose to offer our honest opinions on the book and the possible motivations for writing it.

As you said "I don't see her actively educating people dealing with domestic violence". I also find some of the comments from people on FB making this book out to be some great book on the subject of abuse to be very disturbing. Plus she calls it her story yet is nowhere to be found on the front cover.

This book is one thing and one thing only. A former insider telling her side of what happened when she was inside the inner circles of FM. Any claims to be anything other then that should be seriously questioned.

[Nicks Fan]

Phony as a $3 bill.:laugh: That's about right.:D

First of all, one poster above argued that turn about is fair play. Lindsey dissed Carol Ann in songs, so she is justified in telling tales out of school, as it were. I respectfully disagree. Why? Well, it's like this. Her revelations about his physical abuse/violence, self destructive drug usage and his lack of concern for/about his break-up with Stevie are not in the same category as L.B.'s observations about Ms. Harris' character flaws and their inability to get along.

Secondly, her motivation is not to be helpful but to be hurtful and if she makes a buck in the process all the better. If you truly care about someone you talk to them, not about them; especially after they willingly (i.e., There was no palimony law suit filed.) paid for your rehab and bought you a house (as he reportedly did) following their break-up. Did Ms. Harris reciprocate in kind? And, the answer is obviously no or she wouldn't be trying to make a buck now. She is a taker and a user like a lot of hangers on in any profession (but especially the entertainment industry) are. These people live vicariously through their artistic paramour. Their talent lies not in their god given talents but in their delusions through their illusions of grandeur.

And, lastly she was not in the band nor worked for or with the band so what she is reporting is gossip/second hand news. Mick can reveal what ever he wants to about FWM, for what ever reasons he wants to, because he is not only in the band, he co-founded the band, so his observations are first hand accountings not second hand gossip from some wanna be who got dumped.

And, a personal aside. If L.B. really wanted to marry her, rest assured they would have married 20 years ago. I'm not buying the b.s. that she turned him down twice. No woman, young or otherwise, invests 7 years in a relationship, without expecting marriage for financial security, if nothing else. And, this woman does not strike me as a loving, free spirited hippie-chick who gave without regards for nothing in return. That sounds more like Stevie. Storms indeed.

CarolC:wavey:

I agree completely. I think we all know why she really wrote this book.

[FuzzyPlum]

I agree completely. I think we all know why she really wrote this book.

Um...I don't know. Why?

[nicole21290]

Re. Dennis Wilson, Lindsey's own memory apparently differs...

"I knew him pretty well. He even had an affair with my girlfriend! But he was a good guy. He was kind of lost, but I thought he had a big heart. I always liked him."

As for the book itself, I have issues with the veracity of some of the stories (and it's not always an issue of faulty memory but of deliberately altering or omitting things to create a certain picture, I honestly think) but my major issue has actually been with how she's responded to criticism.

Even though her own book says that conversations are constructed from memory she insists EVERY word is the truth. It's just a bit silly. Memories are fallible, even hers. And yes, she does go to the 'you're just jealous!' defense. At one point I commented on a thread with a collage of 6 pictures. She 'liked' it, and then the next day I was blocked and tagged/publicly called out like so. She doesn't mince her words.

I don’t know what trip you’re on, but that is a seriously obsessed collage that you just posted and I have also been told by multiple people that you “Just want to keep reading my crap” while on your freak blog you trash me and Ken Caillet. How in the hell would you know what is true or not in my book? I lived by Lindsey’s side for eight years - and Ken Caillat was also right there, right then - so when we write or share our stories on information with anyone through our books or on FB, you can take it to the bank that every word is true. My book is for victims of domestic violence - so you can keep you weird jealousy and fan worship all to yourself as I am now blocking you and will advise Ken to do the same. Go crawl back under your rock. I really think people who are that obsessed with ANYONE who is not in their own immediate family or circle of loved ones has serious mental issues…

For the most blatant example of selective story-telling to portray a certain dynamic, I think the AMA story is perfect.

Suddenly he leaped up like someone had lit a firecracker under his butt and took off after the rest of his fellow band members. Already a full minute in front of Lindsey, they were all gathered on the left side of the stage behind the podium, posing and smiling for the cameras as they waited for him to climb the flight of about fifteen stairs to join them.

And then it happened. Lindsey began to ascend the stairs. His legs looked like they were made of rubber as he started to climb: first one stair, then the next. With each step his legs were getting shakier and looser as though bones were dissolving in front of everyone’s eyes. A stunned silence fell over the auditorium as every living soul watched Lindsey’s progress in morbid fascination - for it was apparent to us all that the newly crowned guitarist of the American Music Awards’ Best Band of the Year was running a 90 percent chance of tumbling backward and landing on his ass in front of millions of TV viewers.

Too stunned to move, I started praying again. Praying that someone - anyone - from the band would go to his rescue. And, once again, my prayers went unanswered. Stevie and Christine, faces hanging slack in shock, stood in dead silence as they watched in horror his stumbling, bandy-legged ascent. Lindsey continued to climb, legs quivering… face beaded in sweat… looking like a character from a B-movie who’d been shot and was dragging out his last moments on earth as he mounted the steps to his pearly gates.

As if this spectacle wasn’t bad enough, Lindsey was not headed toward the podium on stage left. Instead, his superhuman effort was leading him to the opposite side of the stage. He was so cross-eyed, perhaps, that his line of destination was completely on the wrong side of the platform. Rising from my seat, I was on the verge of bolting to his rescue when, miraculously, he made it to the top of the stairs. Swaying and grinning like the Cheshire cat from Alice in Wonderland, he made a little bow toward his captive audience and waved hello.

Throughout this nightmarish exhibition I tried to keep a smile on my face. Frozen as it might be, at least it masked the sick feeling of dread that was coursing through me like electricity. At least I hoped it did. Just as I felt as though I might scream at the band, “For God’s sake, go help him!” Mick and John raced across the stage and grabbed Lindsey by the arms, guiding him none too gently to the podium.

In this version of the story we have Lindsey and Carol as 'outsiders', and Fleetwood Mac as uncaring. It's a theme somewhat repeated in her account/s of the epilepsy, etc. However, the video from that night gives a totally different vibe, one where Lindsey isn't left to stumble up the steps alone as the band watches on without helping.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/1c8f8ad0f1938e9fc0d5a022c7f7d784/tumblr_n7hv6iEDDc1sn8si8o1_250.gif

[michelej1]

I think it would be impossible to think that the Annie Leibovitz bedroom photo shoot took place in your home. If you write that it did, then I do believe you are lying for a particular reason.

Michele

[michelej1]

In this version of the story we have Lindsey and Carol as 'outsiders', and Fleetwood Mac as uncaring. It's a theme somewhat repeated in her account/s of the epilepsy, etc.



True and it may be that the Macsters did totally ignore Lindsey's pain when they were offstage, leaving Carol as the only one who cared. But when they were exiting the stage following his spinal tap, Stevie had a hand on his back and Christine took his guitar away from him. They acknowledged his physical condition and Christine is also talking about it in the limo conversations, with Stevie making an unfinished remark of unease, acknowledging that a spinal tap sounded rather risky to her. It sounded like they were -- if not concerned -- not uncaring.

Michele

[Nicks Fan]

Um...I don't know. Why?


Really you have to ask??? LOL.

As far as I am concerned she seems like a bitter women who has an axe to grind with Lindsey and other members of the band so the best way to get even is to write a trashy tell all. I don't know what is worse the fact that she wrote this or the fact that she keeps saying she wrote it for abuse victims which is BS. Just look at her FB Page. From what I have seen it is is stuff related to Fm which shows how she clearly has not moved on.

[nicole21290]

True and it may be that the Macsters did totally ignore Lindsey's pain when they were offstage, leaving Carol as the only one who cared. But when they were exiting the stage following his spinal tap, Stevie had a hand on his back and Christine took his guitar away from him. They acknowledged his physical condition and Christine is also talking about it in the limo conversations, with Stevie making an unfinished remark of unease, acknowledging that a spinal tap sounded rather risky to her. It sounded like they were -- if not concerned -- not uncaring.

Michele

Even the part when he first has the seizure, Stevie’s part of the story amounts to being mocked by CAH and Linds because she tells a story about her dog. It clearly shows her to be well-meaning but ditzy and ultimately uncaring about the state Lindsey is in. As I’ve said before, the press conference shows her having a much better understanding and state of caring. I mean, I get why parts of the story are told like this - it lends itself to the feeling of isolation she felt, even within the ‘family’, and how Lindsey was different, and how he relied on her, and she cared for him, etc etc.

"Lindsey is one strong man."

http://media.tumblr.com/fb517e0944ffc2820dca7770acfd63e2/tumblr_inline_ndbgrfTQYP1rjpgwn.gif

Stevie makes sure people know the priority is Lindsey's health in their press conference about it as well. She basically says nothing for over eight minutes until she feels the need to point that out.

"May I say something? I think it is important that, um, all of us, women know that, you know, the spinal, sometimes if you're having a baby or something, how serious the spinal anything is. And so we have to be very careful of Lindsey because we want him to be fine and we don't want this to have any problems that should re-occur later. Because nothing is worth that. So we have to take care of that, and the most important thing for all of us is to make sure that Lindsey is okay. And we hope that you all feel that way too."

[nicole21290]

I think it would be impossible to think that the Annie Leibovitz bedroom photo shoot took place in your home. If you write that it did, then I do believe you are lying for a particular reason.

Michele

My problem is always that she INSISTS that every single word is true. And it just isn't.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/6030d7826128f99ae8e272ed1d3f50cb/tumblr_njorxry7sk1sn8si8o1_1280.png

THAT Rolling Stone story is just... If you'd merely read her book about it, you'd come away with a completely different perspective than the way Annie, Stevie and Lindsey talked about it.

CHAPTER FIVE

"I can’t pick you up today, angel. I forget to tell you, we’re shooting the cover of Rolling Stone with Annie Leibowitz here at my house. Come on over right after work, OK? The band’s driving me insane.

[she looks at herself in the mirror and reflects]

Sheesh, I look as though I’m twelve years old… with attitude. In Lindsey’s eyes, that might not be such a bad thing!

[she pulls up to Lindsey’s house]

Taking a deep breath - always wise before an encounter with Fleetwood Mac - I knocked softly. Lindsey threw the door open and yelled, “Thank God you’re here! They’re driving me crazy!” He stopped talking and looked me over slowly. “Hey, little girl, looks like you’re looking for your daddy. I like it, Carol. You should wear this stuff more often.”

I could tell by the gleam in his eye that he meant every word and I felt confidence flood through me as he pulled me into the house. Mick got up from the couch, leered, and began making a few suggestive ‘schoolgirl’ remarks of his own. John and Christine started laughing as Mick and Lindsey each took one of my arms and played a tug of war with me caught in the center. Stevie sat silently, apparently not thrilled by my arrival and the happy reception I was getting.

[she sits down and looks at the band’s clothing]

Leaning over, Lindsey whispered into my ear, “This cover is going to be totally cool. Annie has the five of us lying on my bed… very incestuous.” He looked at my raised eyebrows and laughed. “It’s Fleetwood Mac, Carol - are you surprised?”

[Annie calls them all in to Lindsey’s spare bedroom and CAH stays on the couch, flipping through magazines and listening to the laughter]

In less than an hour the shoot was finished, and forty five minutes after that the house was empty except for Lindsey and me. He pulled me up from the couch and led me into the bedroom. As he showed me the Polaroids that Annie’d left for him, I could see that the cover shot was amazing.

…

It was a classic shot which really did tell the story of the Rumours album. I knew the underlying big message as I looked at it: incest!

[Lindsey then asks her to go to Europe with him, and says how much he misses her and can’t bear to be apart from her]

[she fears that it might be a bit much considering they’ve only been together five months]

I knew how hard it could be on a relationship when you’re jet-lagged, eating bad food, and dealing with winter weather. And it wouldn’t just be Lindsey and me. We’d be with the entire entourage of band, roadies, and technicians. Not to mention Stevie Nicks.

Will my being there with him make the uneasy truce between them break down and become an all-out war? I thought nervously.

…

I knew that the working relationship between Lindsey and Stevie was very precarious, and thus the balance within the band itself. Of course, I told myself, with or without me on the road, that’s a storm waiting to break. One look at Lindsey’s pale, gaunt face and the wistful look in his eyes made me lock my fears away and cover his face in kisses as I said, “yes, yes, yes… I’ll come!”
-

These are Lindsey and Stevie's memories of the same day:

LINDSEY'S MEMORIES

Buckingham's memory of the session centers on something different: After Leibovitz finished, everyone got off the mattress except himself and Nicks. Wearing only their bedclothes, the two of them stayed where they were and just held onto each other. The wounds of their breakup were still raw. Says Buckingham, "After all that we'd been through, knowing that we loved each other - somehow, we just couldn't get up." For five minutes, maybe more, Buckingham and Nicks shared a silent embrace. Leibovitz and the rest of the band milled around until finally Mick Fleetwood returned to the mattress and whispered to the entangled pair: "Guys, you're freaking everyone out."

"The [Rolling Stone cover] shoot was over and everyone else got out of the bed, except for Stevie and I. We laid there for about an hour hugging, and it was freaking everybody out."

"For Stevie and me, the wounds and animosities were still very fresh,"� he says. "So the idea for the photo wasn't all that funny. We had to compartmentalize our feelings to keep the band functional, and at the end of the session, we had this moment of not being able to avoid all that had been lost. We embraced for about fifteen minutes, and Mick finally came over and said that people were starting to get uncomfortable. I don't know how healthy all this display of our personal life was, but that's showbiz."

STEVIE'S MEMORIES

"Afterwards, Lindsey and I got to talking about how amazing it was that not so long ago I was a waitress and he didn't have a job, and now we were on the cover of ROLLING STONE with this huge record. And we lay there for two hours talking and making out. Finally, Annie had to tell us to leave, because she had rented the room for only so long. But in one afternoon she put Lindsey and me back together and also planted the seed for Mick and me, which happened a year later. You want to know the power of Annie Leibovitz, there you go."

-

When questioned about the veracity of what she said re. the RS shoot, she said this:

"Okay - this is a ridiculous. If you want to reread pages 55 & 56 in Storms, you'll see that I write that I arrived at Lindsey's AFTER my workday at the studio which ended @ 6:00pm on the day of the Rolling Stone cover shoot which means I got there a little before 7:00pm. They'd been shooting all day - so whatever went on between Lindsey and Stevie during that day before I got there, I have no personal knowledge of - and as his new girlfriend at the time certainly wouldn't have been informed of it. When I walked in, everyone was in the living room as I described and then they all went back for another 45 minutes or so with Annie to shoot before the shoot was wrapped. I wrote of MY experiences and what I personally saw and lived through. To call me a liar over something that is so stupid is not only wrong but defamation."

Again, that doesn't gel because SnL (according to everyone else) embraced AFTER the shoot was wrapped, not during the day while CAH was apparently at work.

-

Eventually, I asked her about that quote she gave which says:

"The mood in the room would change from light to dark whenever they were together. The sheer tension between them was overwhelming; it literally stopped people in their tracks. They could say the most mean and hurtful things to each other. Not because they meant it, because I don't think they really did, but just because they wanted to cut the other one down. The big thing, though, was that Lindsey still loved Stevie. I know he did. Through all the time he was with me, he never stopped loving her. No matter how insane she made him, I don't think he was over the fact that they weren't a couple anymore. fie blamed himself for their break-up, and I think she blamed herself as well. They had that in common, although it was an unspoken bond between them."

A totally different impression than what the book gives but more accurate, I feel...

Anyway, her response?

"Hi Nicole, This quote was taken from a Joe Bosso phone interview and he misquoted me. He apologized to both myself and my Publisher - but I love Joe and he wrote a beautiful article about my book in a very important magazine and we became friends after I'd called him about the misquote in the article - and I think he's an amazing writer. I could go into more detail about it, but I find this entire "discussion board" exhausting."

[lovethemac1]

True and it may be that the Macsters did totally ignore Lindsey's pain when they were offstage, leaving Carol as the only one who cared. But when they were exiting the stage following his spinal tap, Stevie had a hand on his back and Christine took his guitar away from him.

Michele

And didn't Stevie say into the microphone on the way off the stage "That Lindsey is one tough guy." ?????

oops, I didn't see that this was mentioned already!!!

[michelej1]

And didn't Stevie say into the microphone on the way off the stage "That Lindsey is one tough guy." ?????

Yeah. Lindsey is one strong man.

Michele

[michelej1]

My problem is always that she INSISTS that every single word is true. And it just isn't.


And I don't know what she's saying now, but when it came out she was saying that even the quotes were accurate, because they were transcribed from her audio journals. So, she'd have you believe she wasn't even paraphrasing.

Michele

[Danigirl]

I had forgotten about the Lindsey and Stevie embrace after the RS shoot. Funny how Stevie is always so dramatic... 2hours of making out and talking whereas Lindsey 15-30 minutes. I love the idea of them taking in that pivotal "we made it moment" together as a couple. It warms my heart!

As for CAH, um Ya she is digging herself a bigger whole with each rebuttal. I always felt that he didn't really love her, but I convicned myself that I was just a hopeless romantic Stevie Lindsey fan, I think she was well aware that she was the rebound that he needed and she was along for a once in a lifetime ride.

[michelej1]

I think Lindsey loved Carol and was very happy during their first years together. But I also think she's not just inaccurate, but deliberately untruthful in some parts of the book and also generally unhinged. But I've thought that since I saw that plastic surgery documentary.

Michele

[lovethemac1]

My problem is always that she INSISTS that every single word is true. And it just isn't.

http://40.media.tumblr.com/6030d7826128f99ae8e272ed1d3f50cb/tumblr_njorxry7sk1sn8si8o1_1280.png

THAT Rolling Stone story is just... If you'd merely read her book about it, you'd come away with a completely different perspective than the way Annie, Stevie and Lindsey talked about it.

CHAPTER FIVE

"I can’t pick you up today, angel. I forget to tell you, we’re shooting the cover of Rolling Stone with Annie Leibowitz here at my house. Come on over right after work, OK? The band’s driving me insane.

[she looks at herself in the mirror and reflects]

Sheesh, I look as though I’m twelve years old… with attitude. In Lindsey’s eyes, that might not be such a bad thing!

[she pulls up to Lindsey’s house]

Taking a deep breath - always wise before an encounter with Fleetwood Mac - I knocked softly. Lindsey threw the door open and yelled, “Thank God you’re here! They’re driving me crazy!” He stopped talking and looked me over slowly. “Hey, little girl, looks like you’re looking for your daddy. I like it, Carol. You should wear this stuff more often.”

I could tell by the gleam in his eye that he meant every word and I felt confidence flood through me as he pulled me into the house. Mick got up from the couch, leered, and began making a few suggestive ‘schoolgirl’ remarks of his own. John and Christine started laughing as Mick and Lindsey each took one of my arms and played a tug of war with me caught in the center. Stevie sat silently, apparently not thrilled by my arrival and the happy reception I was getting.

[she sits down and looks at the band’s clothing]

Leaning over, Lindsey whispered into my ear, “This cover is going to be totally cool. Annie has the five of us lying on my bed… very incestuous.” He looked at my raised eyebrows and laughed. “It’s Fleetwood Mac, Carol - are you surprised?”

[Annie calls them all in to Lindsey’s spare bedroom and CAH stays on the couch, flipping through magazines and listening to the laughter]

In less than an hour the shoot was finished, and forty five minutes after that the house was empty except for Lindsey and me. He pulled me up from the couch and led me into the bedroom. As he showed me the Polaroids that Annie’d left for him, I could see that the cover shot was amazing.

…

It was a classic shot which really did tell the story of the Rumours album. I knew the underlying big message as I looked at it: incest!

[Lindsey then asks her to go to Europe with him, and says how much he misses her and can’t bear to be apart from her]

[she fears that it might be a bit much considering they’ve only been together five months]

I knew how hard it could be on a relationship when you’re jet-lagged, eating bad food, and dealing with winter weather. And it wouldn’t just be Lindsey and me. We’d be with the entire entourage of band, roadies, and technicians. Not to mention Stevie Nicks.

Will my being there with him make the uneasy truce between them break down and become an all-out war? I thought nervously.

…

I knew that the working relationship between Lindsey and Stevie was very precarious, and thus the balance within the band itself. Of course, I told myself, with or without me on the road, that’s a storm waiting to break. One look at Lindsey’s pale, gaunt face and the wistful look in his eyes made me lock my fears away and cover his face in kisses as I said, “yes, yes, yes… I’ll come!”
-

These are Lindsey and Stevie's memories of the same day:

LINDSEY'S MEMORIES

Buckingham's memory of the session centers on something different: After Leibovitz finished, everyone got off the mattress except himself and Nicks. Wearing only their bedclothes, the two of them stayed where they were and just held onto each other. The wounds of their breakup were still raw. Says Buckingham, "After all that we'd been through, knowing that we loved each other - somehow, we just couldn't get up." For five minutes, maybe more, Buckingham and Nicks shared a silent embrace. Leibovitz and the rest of the band milled around until finally Mick Fleetwood returned to the mattress and whispered to the entangled pair: "Guys, you're freaking everyone out."

"The [Rolling Stone cover] shoot was over and everyone else got out of the bed, except for Stevie and I. We laid there for about an hour hugging, and it was freaking everybody out."

"For Stevie and me, the wounds and animosities were still very fresh,"� he says. "So the idea for the photo wasn't all that funny. We had to compartmentalize our feelings to keep the band functional, and at the end of the session, we had this moment of not being able to avoid all that had been lost. We embraced for about fifteen minutes, and Mick finally came over and said that people were starting to get uncomfortable. I don't know how healthy all this display of our personal life was, but that's showbiz."

STEVIE'S MEMORIES

"Afterwards, Lindsey and I got to talking about how amazing it was that not so long ago I was a waitress and he didn't have a job, and now we were on the cover of ROLLING STONE with this huge record. And we lay there for two hours talking and making out. Finally, Annie had to tell us to leave, because she had rented the room for only so long. But in one afternoon she put Lindsey and me back together and also planted the seed for Mick and me, which happened a year later. You want to know the power of Annie Leibovitz, there you go."

-

When questioned about the veracity of what she said re. the RS shoot, she said this:

"Okay - this is a ridiculous. If you want to reread pages 55 & 56 in Storms, you'll see that I write that I arrived at Lindsey's AFTER my workday at the studio which ended @ 6:00pm on the day of the Rolling Stone cover shoot which means I got there a little before 7:00pm. They'd been shooting all day - so whatever went on between Lindsey and Stevie during that day before I got there, I have no personal knowledge of - and as his new girlfriend at the time certainly wouldn't have been informed of it. When I walked in, everyone was in the living room as I described and then they all went back for another 45 minutes or so with Annie to shoot before the shoot was wrapped. I wrote of MY experiences and what I personally saw and lived through. To call me a liar over something that is so stupid is not only wrong but defamation."

Again, that doesn't gel because SnL (according to everyone else) embraced AFTER the shoot was wrapped, not during the day while CAH was apparently at work.

-

Eventually, I asked her about that quote she gave which says:

"The mood in the room would change from light to dark whenever they were together. The sheer tension between them was overwhelming; it literally stopped people in their tracks. They could say the most mean and hurtful things to each other. Not because they meant it, because I don't think they really did, but just because they wanted to cut the other one down. The big thing, though, was that Lindsey still loved Stevie. I know he did. Through all the time he was with me, he never stopped loving her. No matter how insane she made him, I don't think he was over the fact that they weren't a couple anymore. fie blamed himself for their break-up, and I think she blamed herself as well. They had that in common, although it was an unspoken bond between them."

A totally different impression than what the book gives but more accurate, I feel...

Anyway, her response?

"Hi Nicole, This quote was taken from a Joe Bosso phone interview and he misquoted me. He apologized to both myself and my Publisher - but I love Joe and he wrote a beautiful article about my book in a very important magazine and we became friends after I'd called him about the misquote in the article - and I think he's an amazing writer. I could go into more detail about it, but I find this entire "discussion board" exhausting."

Nicole, I love your posts. Thank you for all the time and effort you put into them.

[lovethemac1]

I think Lindsey loved Carol and was very happy during their first years together. But I also think she's not just inaccurate, but deliberately untruthful in some parts of the book and also generally unhinged. But I've thought that since I saw that plastic surgery documentary.

Michele

Michelle, thank you for all your posts too, they are so insightful. And for some really strange reason, this is my favorite topic with FM. I just love reading all the posts and analysis of CAH and her relationship with LB, and where Stevie fits into this whole thing. Or should I put that the other way around? Stevie and Lindsey and where CAH fits in?

[nicole21290]

And I don't know what she's saying now, but when it came out she was saying that even the quotes were accurate, because they were transcribed from her audio journals. So, she'd have you believe she wasn't even paraphrasing.

Michele

Yeah, I remember reading that. I don't believe it. So many of those conversations read like terrible fanfiction, not going to lie. At the VERY beginning of her book it says:

Author's Note:

Everything in this book is true and documented. Some conversations have been re-created from memory. Certain names have been changed.

[nicole21290]

I think Lindsey loved Carol and was very happy during their first years together. But I also think she's not just inaccurate, but deliberately untruthful in some parts of the book and also generally unhinged. But I've thought that since I saw that plastic surgery documentary.

Michele

Honestly, that documentary made me feel more sorry for her than any line in her book did. She just seemed so desperate to recapture her looks and past.

People have said the first few years were good for them, that he was happy, but his songs on Tusk scream that he's not over Stevie, and his 'lack of closure' definitely impacted things.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/9cdda73b44603728f657d2df620edb1d/tumblr_n5iorjkuUh1sn8si8o1_250.gif http://31.media.tumblr.com/807247ecfb0d560f73f449a1e4970908/tumblr_n5iorjkuUh1sn8si8o2_250.gif
http://33.media.tumblr.com/db34c23c6c0639a18914674cfd3558fa/tumblr_n5iorjkuUh1sn8si8o5_250.gif http://38.media.tumblr.com/4b3e396ffd84fb9bfd164ad836b859fd/tumblr_n5iorjkuUh1sn8si8o6_250.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/4a4164e086e627ae16adc45d703c2e76/tumblr_n5iorjkuUh1sn8si8o3_250.gif http://31.media.tumblr.com/58328cea6d1e0e4ced442e40ca091fbf/tumblr_n5iorjkuUh1sn8si8o4_250.gif

"And STILL the shadow singer stands and lingers in places no one ever goes..."

The biggest WTF moment I had with Carol Ann was actually more recent:

http://buckingham-nicks.boards.net/post/399

She says TWICE that Stevie is her friend. Present tense.

[bombaysaffires]

I think Lindsey loved Carol and was very happy during their first years together. But I also think she's not just inaccurate, but deliberately untruthful in some parts of the book and also generally unhinged. But I've thought that since I saw that plastic surgery documentary.

Michele

what??? how do I not know about this?? details, please! :laugh::eek::eek::shocked::confused:

I forget now which interview it was but one of Lindsey's televised interviews he says about Carol that it started out just as a conquest and then "obviously it became much more". And Richard has said, when asked, that he did think at first that's all it was, and that yes he thought the initial attraction for LB was her resemblance to Stevie. He also said he knew he would get asked this so clearly this is not just some obscure thought only on the part of fans.

[nicole21290]

I had forgotten about the Lindsey and Stevie embrace after the RS shoot. Funny how Stevie is always so dramatic... 2hours of making out and talking whereas Lindsey 15-30 minutes. I love the idea of them taking in that pivotal "we made it moment" together as a couple. It warms my heart!

It makes me laugh every time, how they describe it so differently. Very typical!

And yes, agreed. I find it very sweet. It's not a rare thing for them, I don't think.

https://33.media.tumblr.com/c163a36d75b93e87beb3db04ea176d99/tumblr_nl52r3FHbD1sn8si8o2_250.gif https://31.media.tumblr.com/0ec44852d0936cd1973e7b08e1a6b1d5/tumblr_nl52r3FHbD1sn8si8o1_250.gif

http://38.media.tumblr.com/410d8bcb62b328da09df6bba79df2e03/tumblr_n5ghi67uWX1sn8si8o1_250.gif http://33.media.tumblr.com/4d260759bdb105a3965981394fa19073/tumblr_n5ghi67uWX1sn8si8o2_250.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/a3f7d1aa525c46fd6843de95fcd5f11c/tumblr_n5ghi67uWX1sn8si8o3_250.gif http://38.media.tumblr.com/ea546703088126fe7c1181bf939d0c40/tumblr_n5ghi67uWX1sn8si8o4_250.gif

[nicole21290]

what??? how do I not know about this?? details, please! :laugh::eek::eek::shocked::confused:

I forget now which interview it was but one of Lindsey's televised interviews he says about Carol that it started out just as a conquest and then "obviously it became much more". And Richard has said, when asked, that he did think at first that's all it was, and that yes he thought the initial attraction for LB was her resemblance to Stevie. He also said he knew he would get asked this so clearly this is not just some obscure thought only on the part of fans.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jg8hNCZa5_8?list=PL3DFABFBDA33CB3F3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This always spoke volumes to me...

In your opinion, Did Lindsey really loved Carol Ann Harris?

That’s a little personal & out of respect, better left for those who lived it, to answer, if they choose.

….r

[PenguinHead]

About 2 hours ago, Carol Ann Harris' book showed up on my doorstep. I think that it's probably a belated birthday present from my sister. For anyone who is interested, here's what I've learned so far, mind you, I have just skimmed through the book.




According to Carol Ann:
Lindsey was not too upset over his break up with Stevie
Carol Ann miscarried Lindsey's child
Lindsey twice asked Carol to marry him
Lindsey's music was always first in his life

I haven't read anything earth shattering, and I don't think that she portrays Lindsey as an abusive monster. There aren't a lot of pictures. They are all black and whites, and aren't the best quality, so I wouldn't buy this book for the pictures, if anyone was thinking about that. If anyone is interested, I can post a more complete review after I've read the book.

I recently sent her a message on her Facebook page, thanking her for writing the book, along with a friend/request. She accepted it! Does this mean I'm friends with Carol Ann? Looking forward to chatting with her!:laugh:

[nicole21290]

I recently sent her a message on her Facebook page, thanking her for writing the book, along with a friend/request. She accepted it! Does this mean I'm friends with Carol Ann? Looking forward to chatting with her!:laugh:

Don't feel too special. I'm pretty sure I remember reading some Fleetwood Mac fans say she friended THEM without any prompting. Small fish in a big pond. ;)

I got drowned then tossed on the pavement outside said pond, lol.

[Nicks Fan]

Don't feel too special. I'm pretty sure I remember reading some Fleetwood Mac fans say she friended THEM without any prompting. Small fish in a big pond. ;)

I got drowned then tossed on the pavement outside said pond, lol.


She has. Many of my friends on FB are friends with her because she added them as a friend. It seems allot of her friends are fans of FM/SN/LB etc and allot of her posts or comments are related to either her book or to FM. (At least that is what I can see). She sent me a friend request and I denied it simply because I think it is weird to be friends with an ex girlfriend of Lindsey's. Some people have even friended Kristen Buckingham too.

[lovethemac1]

I recently sent her a message on her Facebook page, thanking her for writing the book, along with a friend/request. She accepted it! Does this mean I'm friends with Carol Ann? Looking forward to chatting with her!:laugh:

Be careful what you say. I've seen her and her gal pals turn on people because they didn't like the way a post was worded. And they were ruthless.......:distress:

[FuzzyPlum]

Really you have to ask??? LOL.

As far as I am concerned she seems like a bitter women who has an axe to grind with Lindsey and other members of the band so the best way to get even is to write a trashy tell all. I don't know what is worse the fact that she wrote this or the fact that she keeps saying she wrote it for abuse victims which is BS. Just look at her FB Page. From what I have seen it is is stuff related to Fm which shows how she clearly has not moved on.

My thoughts;

Well, actually I think she wrote her book because she had a story to tell.
Isn’t writing a book just one of those bucket list things to do for a very large number of people? My wife would love to write a book (whether fiction or non-fiction) but has never managed to get past the first couple of pages. I personally couldnt be bothered but I know a lot of people who'd love to pen their life story.

For most of us our lives aren't that interesting in the wider scheme of things. If something significant does happen in your life though- why not tell other people about it. CAH is (for many people) a nobody. However she spent a good six years or so as part of one of the world’s biggest bands. That was a big experience for her and obviously a time in her life that she'll look back on as a significant period (and obviously still does). She's going to have a story to tell that people are going to want to hear about so why not write about it? I'm glad to read an 'insiders' account of life for the band.

As far as having an axe to grind- I think she could have painted them all in a lot worse light if she'd really wanted to. Overall I don’t think my view of each of them is much different to how it was before I read her book. She's not that flattering towards Stevie but the picture she paints of Stevie is pretty much the image I had in my head anyway (the same for Mick, John & Christine). From what I’ve read in a number of sources none of the FM members are the nicest of people at times (though I’m sure they are all lovely most of the time). Regarding Lindsey- I believe her (and I believe Ken too).

Of course, painting it later as some sort self-help remedy for domestic abuse victims (if thats what she does) isnt sensible. Theres probably a great deal in the book that isnt accurate (no matter what she claims). Overall though, I’m inclined to believe the bulk of the salient points she makes (If a biog was too factually innaccurate surely the author wouldnt dare publish their book as they'd face the threat of legal action). I wouldnt deny her the right to write her story. I dont think she would have benefitted that much financially. I'm sure she's made a decent sum but not a huge amount.

Like most people I found her peurile writing style hard to read initially but warmed to her. I dont think she's a bad person. She was infatuated with a deeply possessive person who loved her deeply back. Rock stars don't tend to stay with a person for a considerable period of time unless it means something.

In general, I don't think she wrote this book simply to get back at Lindsey.

PS: a once beautiful, ageing woman who seeks surgery to try prolong her looks- does that make her odd, bad, freakish? or anything else? No. She comes across as a perfectly normal, sensitive, down to earth person to me.

[michelej1]

PS: a once beautiful, ageing woman who seeks surgery to try prolong her looks- does that make her odd, bad, freakish? or anything else? No. She comes across as a perfectly normal, sensitive, down to earth person to me.

I think she's doing more than trying to prolong her looks, to me she's trying to recapture the past. She's not the only one. I think there are two people in the FM circle who have never had anything in their lives that matched that exciting time and they are stuck in a cycle of trying to relive it, trying to preserve the past and stay in it, rather than just remember it. They may have new relationships, new spouses, but they haven't moved on from FM.

I don't find her normal. I find her sad.

I think her book is entertaining and sometimes very funny and offers some insights that I'm glad to have as a fan and I also think it's liberally sprinkled with deliberate lies. I love reading about how she psyched Lindsey into cutting his hair, getting rid of his facial hair and changing his style. I love how she says she told Stevie that John Wayne also shared their birthday. I shake my head at the implausibility of people in the audience being awed by looking at her in the wings in her sheer dress, to the point where they were ignoring Stevie.

Overall, I think the book is a good thing to have though, because I find the things people choose to embellish or lie about are just as revealing as the truthful anecdotes. I wish a few more people who have been associated with FM would write books, Sara and Ray for starters. But also Billy is writing one and I want to read about his FM years very badly.

I also am interested in Bekka and Billy, too, because I've never known anything about their dynamic and it seems like it was an interesting one.

Michele

[michelej1]

Yeah, I remember reading that. I don't believe it. So many of those conversations read like terrible fanfiction, not going to lie. At the VERY beginning of her book it says:

Author's Note:

Everything in this book is true and documented. Some conversations have been re-created from memory. Certain names have been changed.

Interesting because I'd have to go back to my hard copy and verify, but I don't think my edition of the book said that anything was recreated from memory. She said she relied on her audio diaries, which she went back and listened to and I remember thinking that she was trying to bestow false credence on her recollections through that assertion.

Michele

[bombaysaffires]

I think for me her behavior after the book has been unusual and maybe, I'd have to think about it more, has by association influenced how I think about the book.

I know when I read it, like so many others, I found the writing left a lot to be desired, but you muddle through it to try and understand the point she wants to make about these people. And that's the thing-- the book is more about all these other people, not about her. She doesn't let the reader "in" to understand her that much. And because she doesn't, you're just left with the picture she chose to paint of herself, which is this impossibly innocent, naive, angelic person to whom all this bad stuff just happened, but who kept going back for more and who, even years later, still rhapsodizes about her abuser. Which is fine if that's what she wants to do; but we're all entitled to have our opinions about what she put out for us to read.

Then after the book came out, to do these things like troll FM fans and readers of the book [and if I were a betting person I'd bet my house she trolls this board], is just weird. I can buy having some curiosity when the book first comes out, and wanting to sort of eavesdrop to hear what the reaction to the book is, but then, you better be prepared for what you hear. It might not be all good. And clearly it hasn't been. So to then, at age--what is she? 50 something at least?? -- to troll around the internet and befriend people and engage with them only to attack them or insult them, that is unhealthy.

[bombaysaffires]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jg8hNCZa5_8?list=PL3DFABFBDA33CB3F3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This always spoke volumes to me...

In your opinion, Did Lindsey really loved Carol Ann Harris?

That’s a little personal & out of respect, better left for those who lived it, to answer, if they choose.

….r

thanks nicole!

What struck me was her presentation of her career before meeting LB… running a record company? And definitely creating the impression that her company produced all these "albums you've heard of" by these bands. She sold bootlegs of concerts. it's the stuff like that that make you go hmmmm….

[FuzzyPlum]

I wish a few more people who have been associated with FM would write books, Sara and Ray for starters. But also Billy is writing one and I want to read about his FM years very badly.

I also am interested in Bekka and Billy, too, because I've never known anything about their dynamic and it seems like it was an interesting one.

Michele

The ultimate for me would be a book written by John Courage. Cant see that happening though. No matter what happened after the Tusk tour I think he'd be far too loyal to the band.

[SisterNightroad]

thanks nicole!

What struck me was her presentation of her career before meeting LB… running a record company? And definitely creating the impression that her company produced all these "albums you've heard of" by these bands. She sold bootlegs of concerts. it's the stuff like that that make you go hmmmm….
And she didn't even "run" it as she was just a receptionist that was training to be a sound engineer.

[lovethemac1]

The ultimate for me would be a book written by John Courage. Cant see that happening though. No matter what happened after the Tusk tour I think he'd be far too loyal to the band.

Ohhhhhhhh, now that would be GOOD!!:blob2::blob1::nod:

[lovethemac1]

And she didn't even "run" it as she was just a receptionist that was training to be a sound engineer.

I think they were referring to her bootleg company that her and her boyfriend had, before she joined the recording studio as a receptionist.

[FuzzyPlum]

thanks nicole!

What struck me was her presentation of her career before meeting LB… running a record company? And definitely creating the impression that her company produced all these "albums you've heard of" by these bands. She sold bootlegs of concerts. it's the stuff like that that make you go hmmmm….

Bit unfair- I think this may be down to how the producers of this programme cut her interview.
'I had a record company...
...we sold all over the world.
we did...'

I have the impression she'd said a lot more and probably explained exactly what her business was but it was cut out. May not have been interesting enough for the makers of this programme.

[nicole21290]

Interesting because I'd have to go back to my hard copy and verify, but I don't think my edition of the book said that anything was recreated from memory. She said she relied on her audio diaries, which she went back and listened to and I remember thinking that she was trying to bestow false credence on her recollections through that assertion.

Michele

I have the Kindle edition, and it's the page before the 'title page', actually. Nothing about audio diaries right there. I just don't understand why it's such a big issue that she needs to claim EVERY WORD is true, and that we can take that to the bank. If she herself can admit some conversations are based on memory then it's not a big stretch to then conclude that some words aren't accurate, seeing as everyone's memory is infallible. That's not even mentioning stories that I think ARE altered for various reasons.

I think for me her behavior after the book has been unusual and maybe, I'd have to think about it more, has by association influenced how I think about the book.

I know when I read it, like so many others, I found the writing left a lot to be desired, but you muddle through it to try and understand the point she wants to make about these people. And that's the thing-- the book is more about all these other people, not about her. She doesn't let the reader "in" to understand her that much. And because she doesn't, you're just left with the picture she chose to paint of herself, which is this impossibly innocent, naive, angelic person to whom all this bad stuff just happened, but who kept going back for more and who, even years later, still rhapsodizes about her abuser. Which is fine if that's what she wants to do; but we're all entitled to have our opinions about what she put out for us to read.

Then after the book came out, to do these things like troll FM fans and readers of the book [and if I were a betting person I'd bet my house she trolls this board], is just weird. I can buy having some curiosity when the book first comes out, and wanting to sort of eavesdrop to hear what the reaction to the book is, but then, you better be prepared for what you hear. It might not be all good. And clearly it hasn't been. So to then, at age--what is she? 50 something at least?? -- to troll around the internet and befriend people and engage with them only to attack them or insult them, that is unhealthy.

I wish posts had a like button because THIS. I've always appreciated the existence of the book and I've read it a couple of times. I'm not even questioning her motives for writing it. My problems with the book and with her and nearly wholly based on how she's acted about it AFTER the fact. Her actively searching out SN/FM/LB fans to FB friend and SN/FM/LB FB groups to join strikes me as odd. Her way of talking to those who disagree with her also strikes me as a touch immature and childish, given her age.

For me, personally, it DID kind of suck having her (and later, one of her staunchest supporters) publicly call me out by name - in a post just dedicated to that - and insulting me, especially as she'd 'liked' what she then denigrated, and the information she'd been given, which caused her to say what she did, wasn't even accurate.

She can claim it's a book for healing and for abuse victims, etc, but it doesn't really read like that. I'm very pleased if it DID help those who suffered abuse but it doesn't mean that every word in the book is magically true and accurate because of that. Someone being there doesn't automatically mean they're right and there IS such a thing as objective truth, contrary to what she and some of her fans seem to think. Changing details of what happened at the AMAs isn't a big deal in and of itself, and certainly it's not slanderous. However, I truly believe it was altered and facts were omitted and changed so that it portrayed a certain vision of the band - CAH and Lindsey isolated from the uncaring band, etc. In terms of how she writes about herself, I really felt a lack of self-reflection and growth, to be honest. I was told a lot about what she learned and felt, but the way the story was told didn't really bear it out.


Overall, I think the book is a good thing to have though, because I find the things people choose to embellish or lie about are just as revealing as the truthful anecdotes. I wish a few more people who have been associated with FM would write books, Sara and Ray for starters. But also Billy is writing one and I want to read about his FM years very badly.

Michele

This. A thousand times this. What is slightly altered in a story, what is omitted, what is added, etc, ALL these things are hugely of interest to me. It doesn't have to be a big lie; it's the smaller ones that usually interest me more, especially if they're consistently told that way. In addition, I find it fascinating seeing what adjectives she chooses to describe people or events, what note she ends chapters on, what metaphors re-occur, whether the verbs in stories are related to active or passive things on a consistent level, and so on. It's all very interesting to me.

[lovethemac1]

I'm so with you both on the above comments. I think the same way. I find the little nuances so intriguing.

[justdreamin]

Can someone help me out? This thread caused me to have a slight interest in re-reading Storms, but part of the last page is missing. It's the page that starts out:

"Lindsey would often excise a small fragment of my angelic wing to use as a vehicle for the phallic, yet whimsical blunt he'd roll each evening, and I, not to be out witted by this abusive practice, would embezzle each and every guitar pick, from which to snort my blow, from his vast personal collection, set aside particularly and painstakingly before each show. It was I who was responsible each night as the bare skin of his fingers pelted the metal wire. Afterward, I recall with perfect clarity that I sneezed out of my own nose a sprinkled, frosted, cupcake and it was then I realized that whenever Lindsay left the room, Fleetwood Mac swapped out the blow for flour, cake flour, not self-rising as evidenced by the painful procedure of cheek implants just a few short yea.....

How does it end???

On another note. I don't post often, but I really love it here.

[Montclare]

I think she's doing more than trying to prolong her looks, to me she's trying to recapture the past. She's not the only one. I think there are two people in the FM circle who have never had anything in their lives that matched that exciting time and they are stuck in a cycle of trying to relive it, trying to preserve the past and stay in it, rather than just remember it. They may have new relationships, new spouses, but they haven't moved on from FM.



Michele

Who's the second one? Ken?

[nicole21290]

Can someone help me out? This thread caused me to have a slight interest in re-reading Storms, but part of the last page is missing. It's the page that starts out:

"Lindsey would often excise a small fragment of my angelic wing to use as a vehicle for the phallic, yet whimsical blunt he'd roll each evening, and I, not to be out witted by this abusive practice, would embezzle each and every guitar pick, from which to snort my blow, from his vast personal collection, set aside particularly and painstakingly before each show. It was I who was responsible each night as the bare skin of his fingers pelted the metal wire. Afterward, I recall with perfect clarity that I sneezed out of my own nose a sprinkled, frosted, cupcake and it was then I realized that whenever Lindsay left the room, Fleetwood Mac swapped out the blow for flour, cake flour, not self-rising as evidenced by the painful procedure of cheek implants just a few short yea.....

How does it end???

On another note. I don't post often, but I really love it here.

LOL. I wish the last page (and the last page of the epilogue) were that amusing.

The last page of the chapter.

http://s13.postimg.org/p68f3v9rb/Screen_Shot_2015_03_14_at_4_36_16_pm.png

The last page of the epilogue.

http://s13.postimg.org/j6ko07oyv/Screen_Shot_2015_03_14_at_4_36_03_pm.png

[SisterNightroad]

I think they were referring to her bootleg company that her and her boyfriend had, before she joined the recording studio as a receptionist.
That makes more sense, but is it right to call it "record company"?
As someone else stated, basically she sold bootlegs...

[SisterNightroad]

"Lindsey would often excise a small fragment of my angelic wing to use as a vehicle for the phallic, yet whimsical blunt he'd roll each evening... Afterward, I recall with perfect clarity that I sneezed out of my own nose a sprinkled, frosted, cupcake and it was then I realized that whenever Lindsay left the room, Fleetwood Mac swapped out the blow for flour, cake flour, not self-rising as evidenced by the painful procedure of cheek implants just a few short yea.....

Can someone explain what do these lines mean?
I just remembered that I never fully understood them, I think they were meant to be cool metaphores but since english isn't my first language I find it hard to grasp the concept, there are too many in a row.

[vivfox]

I shake my head at the implausibility of people in the audience being awed by looking at her in the wings in her sheer dress, to the point where they were ignoring Stevie.

I always thought that sounded ridiculous when I read the book. But about a week ago CAH was talking about this very incident on FB and John Courage made several comments about that moment in time, which all kept in line with CAH's memories of that incident.

[lovethemac1]

Who's the second one? Ken?

My guess would be Mick.

[FuzzyPlum]

My guess would be Mick.

I'm not sure whether that was a joke- but its funny (and pretty much true).

[bols59]

I read it online over the weekend. So much has been said about it, but I wanted to add something because I went through a series of conclusions and finally arrived at this: even in my twenties, if my boyfriend had committed DV against me I would have been out of there in a heartbeat. Carol Ann isn't mentally challenged. This isn't the Dark Ages; she could have booked anytime.
But to allow it to continue... plus, what about the road crew who witnessed the after effects? They just turned a blind eye?

[bwboy]

even in my twenties, if my boyfriend had committed DV against me I would have been out of there in a heartbeat. Carol Ann isn't mentally challenged. This isn't the Dark Ages; she could have booked anytime.
But to allow it to continue... plus, what about the road crew who witnessed the after effects? They just turned a blind eye?

I have no interest in debating this issue specifically regarding Harris and Buckingham, but in relation to women staying with their abusers- it happens all the time. I’m glad you feel confident that you would leave in a heartbeat, good for you. Not everybody feels they can for a myriad of reasons. Tina Turner and Nicole Brown are two famous women who dealt with abuse by men who proclaimed to love them, and both had very different outcomes.

And again, speaking generally, yes other people ignore abusive behavior. Imagine you’re on a road crew, and you see a superstar slapping his girlfriend- who are you going to go to? HR? LOL! If you said one word in complaint, at least back then, you would have been fired so fast your head would have been spinning.

Abuse is a horrible thing, and not everyone reacts the same way to it.

[SteveMacD]

If only domestic violence, especially in the late ‘70s/early ‘80s, was that simple. Also not commenting/debating that book or particular relationship.

[bols59]

From a historical standpoint the book was fascinating. What was going on and in what order, the craziness of enormous fame. The venues, the interviews, the changes the band members went through from the Penguin album up through Mirage. One thing I have a hard time with is Carol Ann was on the point of beginning her career as a producer, being mentored by Bob Ezrin. Yet she chose to give it up and nursemaid LB.

[bols59]

Oh Deeshere you made me pick it up and start to finish it. That was a lot of info. Thank you for posting it. What about the incident where Carol tells Lindsey something about Stevie and he goes and whispers something in Stevie's ear on the plane and how it made Stevie's eyes buldge out and set her in her place. I wonder what was said. It's bad but the more I read this thread about Carol, the more I just dislike her. I guess it had to feel horrific to stand next to Stevie, watch her being adored by millions and be so talented and all you were was a girlfriend who tagged along to concerts and hung out at Lindsey's house and had no career and was really ugly next to Stevie. Ewwwwww that was so bad, I just had to type it, sorry. I guess she was ok looking. No, really she wasn't at all. Sorry. Next to Stevie, Carol was just gawd awful. Can't help it. I love how Carol likes to mention everytime someone tells her she looked beautiful in the book etc, that made me puke. I have had people tell me I looked great before, but it would never go in my book, even if it was Christ who said it. I guess I have a lot of youtube searching to do tonight. In the end I believe carol's life was miserable during that time due to, just Stevie's energy being around. I wonder how she feels about all the new come backs with Stevie on AHS and how great she looks. I guess no one has any photos of Carol? Also did Stevie or Lindsey ever comment on this book? I hate myself for not being caught up. It would really help if stevie just gave the world what they wanted and wrote a 1000 page book with photos and gave a few snark remarks about Carol. By the way if Lindsey heard that Stevie said she would never let Carol marry him, it probably turned him on and off he went to find her. Finishing the book now
That's a really honest review of the book. And I must say I agree with you. I mean, what's LB done since he broke up w/Carol Ann? & what's Carol Ann done since she broke up w/LB?