Liar, Liar, Now You're Fired [Archive] - Page 3

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 04:17 PM

When someone else's beliefs are hateful such as yours - then yes I guess we are "clouded"

By the way - you've obviously missed the whole point of Christianit :distress: Guess what - scripture is not supposed to be used a weapon or as an attack on others...

Also - eating meat on Friday used to be considered an "abomination"

I think I'm going to go the unoriginal route and just second Tower's notion that your ignorance IS astounding...

But it is supposed to be use as a guide book for our faith, its what God has left us. You keep saying its "using the bible as a weapon" well guess what. Sometimes God told his people things that they didn't really want to hear. Didn't mean he didn't love them any less. His world, His rules! It's not TRYING to come up with some scripture that might HINT that homosexual is a sin, but when scripture FLAT FACED tells you....NO ITS AN ABOMINATION...hmmmm! Thats something you can't ignore because "its going to hurt someone's feelings."

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 04:23 PM

The majority of Americans do NOT think it is murder, only a very vocal MINORITY. A MINORITY that insists on foisting its narrow views on the rest of us. Also, you need to READ better: I didnt say only our elected officials feel this way, but rather that the majority of our elected officials were MEN.
PLEASE PAY ATTENTION.
btw: Abortion is NOT bestial. you need to look up "bestial".

and fyi: outlawing abortion will not eliminate the procedure, it will only force it underground....women have been terminating pregnancies for eons. In fact, the medical procedure we NOW use was legalized to prevent the numerous deaths from desperate women who used coat hangers or knitting needles or herbal remedies and the like. You are incredibly IGNORANT about this issue, and should do more research.

Oh wow...women have been doing it for eons...that makes it ok! You got me on that one :rolleyes:

If you don't view this act as bestial then YOU are the one is Ignorant to everyone’s right to life.

Bestial--
1 a : of or relating to beasts b : resembling a beast
2 a : lacking intelligence or reason b : marked by base or inhuman instincts or desires :

To kill an offspring because "you can't fit into your prom dress" or because "I'm affraid I can't raise he/she in a good life" is bestial, a cop out, and common as hell.

"Any country that accepts abortion, is not teaching its people to love, but to use any violence to get what it wants." -- Mother Teresa

It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." -- Mother Teresa

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 04:23 PM

But it is supposed to be use as a guide book for our faith, its what God has left us. You keep saying its "using the bible as a weapon" well guess what. Sometimes God told his people things that they didn't really want to hear. Didn't mean he didn't love them any less. His world, His rules! It's not TRYING to come up with some scripture that might HINT that homosexual is a sin, but when scripture FLAT FACED tells you....NO ITS AN ABOMINATION...hmmmm! Thats something you can't ignore because "its going to hurt someone's feelings."

But it doesn't say that - the bible in its true form doesn't mention the word "homosexual" It's been studied and confirmed that the Leviticus part that you all cling to doesn't even apply to homosexualtiy per se....also the whole Sodom and Gomorah stuff - that's not about homosexuality either...

Don't really want or need to go into all this because you've already got your opinion on this....

But whatever - there are only a few admonitions of homosexuals in the Bible and MANY MANY more admonishing straight people and their behaviours...looks like you all are just as nasty as those gays :p <-- note tone in that is not serious...

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 04:24 PM

Hatred of homosexuals is tolerance?

the word hatred never came out of my keyboard!

PUTTING WORDS INTO PEOPLES MOUTHS is something common in this board.

I think partaking in homosexual activity is wrong, but I don'th hate the person whos doing it. Why? That wouldn't solve anything...

Love the person, Hate the sin!

You guys act like its a shock that a conservative would have...guess what...conservative views! GEE you think!?!

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 04:26 PM

To kill an offspring because "you can't fit into your prom dress" or because "I'm affraid I can't raise he/she in a good life" is bestial, a cop out, and common as hell.

[

What the hell world are you living in?

You think the woman who was raped brutally and then impregnated is aborting her baby because she can't fit into a prom dress?

You think the crack addicted whore who got pregnant with her 7th child (all the others are being F***Ed by the foster care system) should have another child???

You obviously haven't picked up a newspaper or read about the foster care system in this country....

irishgrl

01-19-2005, 04:34 PM

Oh wow...women have been doing it for eons...that makes it ok! You got me on that one :rolleyes:

If you don't view this act as bestial then YOU are the one is Ignorant to everyone’s right to life.

Bestial--
1 a : of or relating to beasts b : resembling a beast
2 a : lacking intelligence or reason b : marked by base or inhuman instincts or desires :

To kill an offspring because "you can't fit into your prom dress" or because "I'm affraid I can't raise he/she in a good life" is bestial, a cop out, and common as hell.

"Any country that accepts abortion, is not teaching its people to love, but to use any violence to get what it wants." -- Mother Teresa

It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish." -- Mother Teresa

abortion is NOT bestial, it is not related to beasts or resembling a beast.

To kill an offspring because "you can't fit into your prom dress" or because "I'm affraid I can't raise he/she in a good life" is bestial
THAT is a gross oversimplification and I can think of NO instance where any woman I knew got an abortion for that reason. PUH LEEZ.

I admire Mother Teresa. I think she led an exemplary life. That doesnt mean I agree with her on this issue. And until you've "walked a mile in another's moccasins" you cannot pretend you know what is best for them. The lesson here is to MIND YOUR OWN BLOODY BUSINESS. BUTT OUT. Im sure you've got enough character flaws of your own to work on without worrying about what someone else is doing. As Jesus said, "take the mote out of your own eye first" or put another way "people who live in glass houses should not throw stones"

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 04:36 PM

But it doesn't say that - the bible in its true form doesn't mention the word "homosexual" It's been studied and confirmed that the Leviticus part that you all cling to doesn't even apply to homosexualtiy per se....also the whole Sodom and Gomorah stuff - that's not about homosexuality either...

Don't really want or need to go into all this because you've already got your opinion on this....

But whatever - there are only a few admonitions of homosexuals in the Bible and MANY MANY more admonishing straight people and their behaviours...looks like you all are just as nasty as those gays :p <-- note tone in that is not serious...

Well I wonder why...because there were no words in the hebrew language to match the common english term "homosexual".

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination . Leviticus 18: 22

God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." Gen. 1-28

Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom-both young and old-surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Gen. 19:4-5

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 1Cor 6:9-10

Haven't you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." Matthew 19:4-5

irishgrl

01-19-2005, 04:37 PM

You're a f*cking loony. How dare you degrade those who chose abortion with this pathetic reasoning. As if it meant nothing to them. I think a big 'f*ck you' is in order.
Lux. :thumbsup:

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 04:38 PM

You're a f*cking loony. How dare you degrade those who chose abortion with this pathetic reasoning. As if it meant nothing to them. I think a big 'f*ck you' is in order.

Well, and you have to express you feelings. If you feel like saying F*ck me then that is your choice. But Im sick and tired of the unborn who have no voice being murderd.

May the cries of the murdered unborn reach the ears of God. It is my prayer!

Serrart

01-19-2005, 04:40 PM

What if your children want to learn about L. Ron Hubbard :eek :eek: :laugh:

I'd make them watch Battlefield Earth, that should be enough to avoid any other question about the guy. ;)

Seriously, living in a Catholic Country, I went to a primary Catholic school, but the teachers were pretty open-minded and encouraged me to read about other religions too. Actually my teacher, a nun, when I was ten gave me a book about Gandhi who became my hero :thumbsup:. I'd do the same with my children, I'd encourage them to read, to learn, to be curious, not putting our culture on a pedestal. To live in a world full of certainties is really scary and dangerous.

Romy

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 04:41 PM

abortion is NOT bestial, it is not related to beasts or resembling a beast.

THAT is a gross oversimplification and I can think of NO instance where any woman I knew got an abortion for that reason. PUH LEEZ.

I admire Mother Teresa. I think she led an exemplary life. That doesnt mean I agree with her on this issue. And until you've "walked a mile in another's moccasins" you cannot pretend you know what is best for them. The lesson here is to MIND YOUR OWN BLOODY BUSINESS. BUTT OUT. Im sure you've got enough character flaws of your own to work on without worrying about what someone else is doing. As Jesus said, "take the mote out of your own eye first" or put another way "people who live in glass houses should not throw stones"

I have to stand up for those who have no voice, the unborn. So I’m sorry, wish I could BUTT OUT. But I'm afraid as long as this murderous act continues there will be millions of others along with myself, giving those who can’t speak a voice!

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 04:42 PM

abortion is NOT bestial, it is not related to beasts or resembling a beast.

THAT is a gross oversimplification and I can think of NO instance where any woman I knew got an abortion for that reason. PUH LEEZ.

I admire Mother Teresa. I think she led an exemplary life. That doesnt mean I agree with her on this issue. And until you've "walked a mile in another's moccasins" you cannot pretend you know what is best for them. The lesson here is to MIND YOUR OWN BLOODY BUSINESS. BUTT OUT. Im sure you've got enough character flaws of your own to work on without worrying about what someone else is doing. As Jesus said, "take the mote out of your own eye first" or put another way "people who live in glass houses should not throw stones"

And you missed the part in the def. where it said that acting without thinking or without human reason...hmmm...last time I check, murdering your offspring wasn't the "human" thing today, but of course in todays society it is! Hince the "bestial" part about society.
Ok, lets say you were discussing abortion with Jesus, IN YOU own honest opinion what do YOU think Jesus thinks about abortion?

heyjupiter678

01-19-2005, 04:48 PM

I'd do the same with my children, I'd encourage them to read, to learn, to be curious, not putting our culture on a pedestal. To live in a world full of certainties is really scary and dangerous.
Exactly, Romy. Well said. :)

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

01-19-2005, 04:49 PM

ABORTION (Killing, Life, Murder)
What does God say about life in the womb?
BIBLE READING: Jeremiah 1:1-5
KEY BIBLE VERSE: Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. (Jeremiah 1:5, NIV)
Persons have worth even before they are born. God knew you, as he knew Jeremiah, long before you were born or even conceived. He knew you, thought about you, and planned for you. When you feel discouraged or inadequate, remember that God has always thought of you as valuable and has had a purpose in mind for you.
BIBLE READING: Psalm 139:1-24
KEY BIBLE VERSE: For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. (Psalm 139:13-14, NIV)
God is at work in a person’s life even while in the womb. God’s character goes into the creation of every person. When you feel worthless or even begin to hate yourself, remember that God’s Spirit is ready and willing to work within you. God thinks of you constantly (Psalm 139:1-4). We should have as much respect for ourselves as our Maker has for us.
What is behind the practice of abortion today?
BIBLE READING: 2 Chronicles 28:1-8
KEY BIBLE VERSE: Ahaz was twenty years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem sixteen years. Unlike David his father, he did not do what was right in the eyes of the LORD. (2 Chronicles 28:1, NIV)
Abortion is a sin against God. Imagine the monstrous evil of a religion that offers young children as sacrifices. God allowed Judah to suffer heavy casualties in response to Ahaz’s evil practices. Even today the practice hasn’t abated. The sacrifice of children to the harsh gods of convenience, economy, and whim continues in sterile medical facilities in numbers that would astound even the wicked Ahaz. If we are to allow children to come to Christ (Matthew 19:14), we must first allow them to come into the world.
Related topics: CHILDREN, LIFE, MURDER

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 04:52 PM

What about those who live in miserable existences of deprivation?

It is also my prayer that the voice of the poor is heard, the ones who have no roof over their head and their REALLY isn't anything they can do about it.

But, I feel, that my special calling from God is to stand up for the unborn, and their right to life. Every soul is a gift from God.

And who knows, their could have already have been a cure for cancer, aids, etc...if one of the billions of babies murdered before birth had not have been aborted. Who knows how those souls could have made this world a better place.

You can't solve the problems of the world by killing its citizens.

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 04:53 PM

irishgrl

01-19-2005, 04:54 PM

And you missed the part in the def. where it said that acting without thinking or without human reason
I didnt miss that. abortion is not a snap decision. most places require a waiting period. and just because you dont agree with the reason doesnt mean there isnt one.

irishgrl

01-19-2005, 04:56 PM

But, I feel, that my special calling from God is to stand up for the unborn, and their right to life.
Bro-ther. :shrug:

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 04:56 PM

I didnt miss that. abortion is not a snap decision. most places require a waiting period. and just because you dont agree with the reason doesnt mean there isnt one.

When its the murder of your child that you helped create, I don’t care if you ponder on it for weeks...to KILL the child is not basic human instinct. Basic human instinct is to protect your offspring. HELL even an ANIMALS instinct is to protect their child...so really its not even beastial its just beyond any concept of right.

Serrart

01-19-2005, 04:56 PM

And who knows, their could have already have been a cure for cancer, aids, etc...if one of the billions of babies murdered before birth had not have been aborted. Who knows how those souls could have made this world a better place.
.

... Or there could have been some serial killers less if their mothers had considered abortion as an option... Sorry, couldn't resist. :wavey:

Romy

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

01-19-2005, 04:57 PM

ABORTION
15 Abortion stops a beating heart.
—Theme of West Virginians for Life State Convention
16 For us murder is once for all forbidden; so even the child in the womb. . . is not lawful for us to destroy. To forbid birth is only quicker murder. . . . The fruit is always present in the seed.
TERTULLIAN (C. 160–AFTER 220)
17 How would you like to be that baby inside the womb of a woman who isn’t sure she wants you to live any longer?
CHARLES R. SWINDOLL (1934– )
18 I believe this society will one day look back at the horror of abortion, and critics will ask, “Where was the church?”
JOEL REITER
19 I do not believe in abortion. But I will prefer to counsel a woman who has had a legal abortion rather than to bury one who has had an illegal one. I have done both.
ALBERT DEMOS
20 I have a right to free speech, but not to shout “fire” in a theater. A person’s right to anything stops when it injures or kills another living human. Should any civilized nation give to one citizen the absolute right to kill another to solve that first person’s personal problem?
JOHN WILKE
21 I will not give a woman an instrument to procure abortion.
HIPPOCRATES (C. 460–C. 377 B.C.)
22 It’s haunting me. I can’t get it out of my mind. . . . I helped murder somebody and I can’t sleep.
—Linda Johnson, after being forced to witness an abortion and package the aborted baby for use as evidence
23 We are fighting abortion by adoption. We have sent word to the clinics, to the hospitals, to the police stations. “Please do not destroy the child. We will take the child.”
MOTHER TERESA OF CALCUTTA (1910– )
24 We cannot treat the human embryo as cheap and worthless without passing judgment on all human life, including our own.
MONICA FURLONG
25 What would God have done if Mary and Joseph had decided to have an abortion?

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 04:59 PM

You know surprisingly I'm more concerned with the state of the woman in question and what very real issues she'll deal with than what some men wrote about the issue thousands of years ago.

To kill your child, for whatever reason, isn't the answer. It should be a parent’s natural instinct to have and protect the child. Even in those tough situations where the mothers life is at risk...it's scary but it happens...and when it does its ultimately the hope of God that the mother chooses the life of her child over her own. It sounds harsh, but we will do anything for our children or we should I think.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:01 PM

... Or there could have been some serial killers less if their mothers had considered abortion as an option... Sorry, couldn't resist. :wavey:

Romy

Very true, but the world will never know because they were murdered.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:03 PM

Bro-ther. :shrug:

So, I'm wierd and insane because I feel that I have a calling from God...

All of us have a calling from God, and we all know when we find it.

You have to be one of the most cold hearted people I have ever talked to in my life.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:05 PM

Your Bible quotes are all well and good - and yea for you knowing your Bible quotes...

However - that does not change the fact that

A) Your beliefs are not everyone's and you have no right to apply them to everyone
B) Because of separation of Church and State - it doesn't matter what the Bible says - because again, no ONE religion should dictate laws for everyone...regardless of what our country was supposedly founded on...
C) there are hundreds of other religions that people practice in this country and their opinions and such are no less valid than your own - but I don't see them trying to impose laws on EVERYONE else to serve their religious extremism...

But then again there is nothing in the constitution that says that gay marriage is legal either. There is nothing really in the constitution that defines what marriage is. Which is why millions of American's want the marriage ammendment to be added to the constitution. The special and sacred relationship between man and woman that has been believed in since the beginning of time. The joining together of these two people to create life!

irishgrl

01-19-2005, 05:08 PM

So, I'm wierd and insane because I feel that I have a calling from God...

All of us have a calling from God, and we all know when we find it.

You have to be one of the most cold hearted people I have ever talked to in my life.

interesting, considering I already told you I am a child advocate. You know NOTHING about me.

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 05:09 PM

But then again there is nothing in the constitution that says that gay marriage is legal either. There is nothing really in the constitution that defines what marriage is. Which is why millions of American's want the marriage ammendment to be added to the constitution. The special and sacred relationship between man and woman that has been believed in since the beginning of time. The joining together of these two people to create life!

What? Where the hell are you getting your information.

And what about the millions of Americans who DON'T want the marriage amendment added to the constitution?

It has no place there - because it's a religious issue - again, give me ONE good reason why there should be no gay marriage - a reason that IS NOT based on religion - the ones you stated above are religious - and your last statement - marriage to create life?

So should people who are not able to have children - should they not be allowed to marry?

There is no place for a marriage definition in the United State Constitution. period.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:09 PM

Perhaps that is to say that there is no way references to homosexuality could exist in the original un-translated text? Sure, there can be terms that may look like they refer to homosexuality, but you just said that there was nothing that blatantly mentioned it (or you did, I can't tell). Thus, someone would have had to integrated that on their own if it weren't in the text already.

Anything can influence translation: cultures, languages (obviously), cultural upbringing... and all of these can lead to biases. Who's to say what the original intention of the Bible (or any other heavily-translated religious text) is? Some translations are more faithful than others, sure, but people also read different translations to fit their needs. There's a New Testament translation of the Bible that looks like a Cosmo magazine (it's called "Revolve" and aimed toward teenage girls; the male counterpart is called "Refuel"). It's formatted in a way that makes it easier to understand for the reader. You can't tell me that they didn't dumb things down a little or possibly even take some liberties in the translating of the text in order to better appeal to teenage girls (or boys).

Take for instance this. I Googled it, since I don't have a Bible nearby (I think I lost it a long time ago at a day camp.) I found the following:

To me, that hardly implies, "So we can have sex with them."

Okay, that one? Yeah.

Eh. This can be construed as, "We wanna have sex, y'all!" But it oculd possibly be interpreted as something different. I'm not up to snuff on all the Biblical stories, so forgive me if I'm being an idiot with this.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that over time, as people change, dialects change, etc, definitions can change. Connotations and denotations can change. Perhaps that is the case with many translations of religious text (specifically, the Bible)? Perhaps, even, it is safe to assume that when the Bible refers to men, it is literally referring solely TO men? (Not to be misogynistic or anything, but it's something that I thought about a few weeks ago).

Anyway. Feel free to ignore me, since I know next to nothing about the content of Biblical text. I'm only really familiar with a few things here & there, and that's it. In the end, blahblahblah translationschangestuff-cakes.

To "know" in the biblical since is an old english term used when translating the KJV. It means to "have relations with or to have sex with"

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 05:10 PM

What about those who will not protect their child, those who will not be able to provide for it and who will treat it to neglect? Do they deserve to be put through that?

Right - or beat, molested and worse in foster care?

I have heard some HORRIBLE stories of kids shuffled though the system - then once they turn 18 they're dropped like hot potatos with no clue what to do = and a history of abuse etc...it's a sad state indeed :nod:

Serrart

01-19-2005, 05:13 PM

Very true, but the world will never know because they were murdered.

The babies or the serial killers?

By The way I respect your politic and moral beliefs even if I don't agree with any of them (at least among those I've read about), it's only that to play "what if" with abortion seems pointless to me. JMHO

Romy

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:13 PM

What? Where the hell are you getting your information.

And what about the millions of Americans who DON'T want the marriage amendment added to the constitution?

It has no place there - because it's a religious issue - again, give me ONE good reason why there should be no gay marriage - a reason that IS NOT based on religion - the ones you stated above are religious - and your last statement - marriage to create life?

So should people who are not able to have children - should they not be allowed to marry?

There is no place for a marriage definition in the United State Constitution. period.

I just gave you one. Because really its unnatural it goes against basic and common law, to procreate which only can come through Male/Female joining together as one soul to live together and create life.

and basically, being tired of this whole arguing crap, I asked a professor today her opinion on all of this and she said:

"You know if animals have gotten in right all these years, why can't we? If a dog knows what to hump, why can't we? Id like to think we are smarter than a dog."

And I know that’s going to offend everyone (cause EVERYTHING does around here) but just note that I DIDNT SAY IT...my PROFESSOR IN COLLEGE DID.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:14 PM

The babies or the serial killers?

By The way I respect your politic and moral beliefs even if I don't agree with any of them (at least among those I've read about), it's only that to play "what if" with abortion seems pointless to me. JMHO

Romy

You're right it does...and thats what is sad about it. To think about all the life that could have been, but wasn't.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:15 PM

You're kidding yourself if you think it works that way. Miserable existences can be avoided.

Yes they can, give the baby up for adoption, don't kill it!

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:17 PM

Right - or beat, molested and worse in foster care?

I have heard some HORRIBLE stories of kids shuffled though the system - then once they turn 18 they're dropped like hot potatos with no clue what to do = and a history of abuse etc...it's a sad state indeed :nod:

You still don't understand...ITS NOT OUR RIGHT to kill that child no matter of what YOU think the circumstances of his/her life will be. HOW DARE ANYONE take that life away from that child.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:18 PM

interesting, considering I already told you I am a child advocate. You know NOTHING about me.

You, are a child advocate....

and I'm Michael Moore.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :lol: :lol:

reallyl you are joking right, is this like candid camera internet style or something!?!

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 05:23 PM

I just gave you one. Because really its unnatural it goes against basic and common law, to procreate which only can come through Male/Female joining together as one soul to live together and create life.

and basically, being tired of this whole arguing crap, I asked a professor today her opinion on all of this and she said:

"You know if animals have gotten in right all these years, why can't we? If a dog knows what to hump, why can't we? Id like to think we are smarter than a dog."

And I know that’s going to offend everyone (cause EVERYTHING does around here) but just note that I DIDNT SAY IT...my PROFESSOR IN COLLEGE DID.

No you didn't. You gave me an opinion based on your religion.

Guess what - your professor is an idiot.

There are animals that have sex with animals of the same sex :nod: Nature - gotta love it.

And - gay people know how to knock up others - they know how to "get it right" as you said :rolleyes:

Again - what about men/women who are straight but sterile? Should then not be allowed to marry or have sex??

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 05:24 PM

You still don't understand...ITS NOT OUR RIGHT to kill that child no matter of what YOU think the circumstances of his/her life will be. HOW DARE ANYONE take that life away from that child.

I think it is YOU who don't understand....your beliefs are not everyones - and therefore you will never be able to change the minds of others - because not everyone believes in your mega-Christian values...

The Tower

01-19-2005, 05:24 PM

And I know that’s going to offend everyone (cause EVERYTHING does around here) but just note that I DIDNT SAY IT...my PROFESSOR IN COLLEGE DID.

Lemme guess.... Bob Jones University???? Oops, I forgot- you said you were in North Carolina, not South Carolina. Nevermind.... ;)

Yes they can, give the baby up for adoption, don't kill it!

Not only are you ignorant, but you're naive.

irishgrl

01-19-2005, 05:25 PM

those who know me, already know the answer to this. I dont care if you dont believe it. like I said, you know NOTHING about me.
the playground is all yours. enjoy.

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 05:26 PM

My male cats hump. They just don't procreate when they do. Doesn't mean they don't do it. The fact that the heterosexuals are the ones who procreate does not infer that those who don't procreate are sinning. We simply trace our ancestory back through heterosexuals, it does not mean homosexuality did not exist in all eras and nor does it mean that it is a sin, simply that we survive through heterosexuals. I don't think the survival or the species is anything to rave about and even if it is, there's plenty of heterosexuals to do the procreating, there's no shortage.

:nod: And um - dogs who hump legs and things? Don't think they're "getting it right"... as your brililant college professor said :rolleyes:

EnchantedSLN

01-19-2005, 05:26 PM

Because really its unnatural it goes against basic and common law

Bunk.

and basically, being tired of this whole arguing crap, I asked a professor today her opinion on all of this and she said:

"You know if animals have gotten in right all these years, why can't we? If a dog knows what to hump, why can't we? Id like to think we are smarter than a dog."

If I listened to everything some of my whackjob professors have said...

By the way, have you ever put two un-neutered male dogs in a room together? Perhaps your professor would like to reconsider her argument :laugh:.

Besides, if you want to go that route the existence of "non-breeding" individuals in various species of animals that exhibit homosexual behavior in nature is well documented. Take bonobos (sometimes called pygmy chimpanzees), for example, with whom we share 98% of our DNA. Homosexuality, especially female, is extremely prevalent.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:27 PM

My male cats hump. They just don't procreate when they do. Doesn't mean they don't do it. The fact that the heterosexuals are the ones who procreate does not infer that those who don't procreate are sinning. We simply trace our ancestory back through heterosexuals, it does not mean homosexuality did not exist in all eras and nor does it mean that it is a sin, simply that we survive through heterosexuals. I don't think the survival or the species is anything to rave about and even if it is, there's plenty of heterosexuals to do the procreating, there's no shortage.

I never said that it didn't go back for eons. Of course it does! But why is it alwlays looked down upon in society in EVERY ancient way of life. Because it was "not normal", well where'd they get that insane notion of "what normal" is...maybe from God and how they were taught of God's natural law from the beginnings of time.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:29 PM

Sure, I'll give you that. But that definition of it is purely archaic. I don't know anyone today who will say, "So I knew someone last night." Or, "Hey, wanna know?" Sure, someone might say, "I got to know her real well last night *winkwinknudgenudge*", but who's skeevy enough to do it that way? I mean, come on now. Eyugh. Of course, I'm not discrediting the original text if that's what it meant originally (and I don't doubt it did, since I looked up the etymology, definitions, etc). I'm just stating my opinion on the matter.

If I were to read one of the old translations, where it wasn't "So we can have sex with them" but rather "so that we may know them," without knowing about the etymology, I'd think that they just wanted to get to know each other. To me, that hardly implies that they would start knocking boots. And therein lies the problem of knowledge. How one acts on the text presented in the Bible, based on how they interpret/understand it, can change due to outside influences — cultural, linguistic, or otherwise — and largely in part due to how the text is translated. If I have come to know the term "know" simply as how it is used today — when speaking of abtaining new information, you know something; when meeting someone (in a purely non-sexual way), you know them — then that is how I will interpret the text I am presented with.

For instance, a while ago (we're talking mid-90s), the thing to do for us young'ns was to go around saying everything was "sick." If it was "cool," it was "sick." Just like if, today, it is "cool," it is "tight." Thus, cultural influences have affected the connotations of the word "cool" and furthermore have affected the terms "sick" and "tight." Yeah, it's just slang. Yeah, it's not very credible. Yeah, it'll be forgotten (such as with the archaic definition of "know," which I certainly didn't know about until a few minutes ago). But I think it's a valid point to make when discussing this.

Thus, we have the problems of knowledge (thanks, Theory of Knowledge! :thumbsup: ) that arise from this barrier. Thus, we have the arguments that have arisen in this thread.

Well of course no one says that any more. Which is why more modern english translations of the bible are made. It doesn't change with the original hebrew of the word implied.

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 05:30 PM

I never said that it didn't go back for eons. Of course it does! But why is it alwlays looked down upon in society in EVERY ancient way of life. Because it was "not normal", well where'd they get that insane notion of "what normal" is...maybe from God and how they were taught of God's natural law from the beginnings of time.

Your teachers or someone need to be re-educated :laugh:

Homosexualty has not always been looked down upon - it's just recently that Americans are all up in arms about it....greek times - homosexuality NOT looked down upon...

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:31 PM

:nod: And um - dogs who hump legs and things? Don't think they're "getting it right"... as your brililant college professor said :rolleyes:

Thats just beause their dogs and "horny" but they DO know when the oppisite sex dog is around, and they know how to breed, it never fails.

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 05:31 PM

Well of course no one says that any more. Which is why more modern english translations of the bible are made. It doesn't change with the original hebrew of the word implied.

The thing is? It does :nod:

It very much changes the original meaning and sometimes intent of certain Bible texts :nod:

It's true - and the Bible has been HIGHLY Edited over the years...many books have multiple authors....'es truth man!

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:32 PM

But how it's interpreted does. Which has been my main point. That I have stated over and over again.

again, no it doesn't because the root of the hebrew word (am I giong to have to look it up for you) means the act of sexually connected with anther person.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:33 PM

The thing is? It does :nod:

It very much changes the original meaning and sometimes intent of certain Bible texts :nod:

It's true - and the Bible has been HIGHLY Edited over the years...many books have multiple authors....'es truth man!

Well of course they do, you think Im an idiot? You people are wierd.

They are called EDITORS not authors, they oversee modern day translations of the bible to make sure they follow close to the original languages.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:35 PM

Your teachers or someone need to be re-educated :laugh:

Homosexualty has not always been looked down upon - it's just recently that Americans are all up in arms about it....greek times - homosexuality NOT looked down upon...

Because they didn't come from the society of peoples who believed in One God, Yahweh, giver of life. They strayed away from God's people. And sin takes over when that happens. But in essence in every society with belief in God homosexuality has ALWAYS been looked down upon, ALWAYS as far back as biblical times (which we have proven).

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:36 PM

If you look around the boards you can see that the person you are talking to is someone I clearly do not have a good record with. At this point I don't care. What you have said is disgusting. How dare you insult her in the area that we can assume is the most important thing in her life. To say this is to insult her as a mother and I don't know her but I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. I'll give her **** about Stevie Nicks but giving **** about her mothering and then laughing about it is disgusting.

She has insulted the children of the world by claiming to stand up for them but supporting the murder of children.

Im discusting?

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 05:37 PM

Well of course they do, you think Im an idiot? You people are wierd.

They are called EDITORS not authors, they oversee modern day translations of the bible to make sure they follow close to the original languages.

Wow - you believe that?

You've been very misguided...there ARE mulitple authors as well as multiple editors...and yes, your fast making the track to idiot in my mind :nod: :sorry:

You just seem to not know your stuff historically and what your spouting about it is mostly false...

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 05:38 PM

Because they didn't come from the society of peoples who believed in One God, Yahweh, giver of life. They strayed away from God's people. And sin takes over when that happens. But in essence in every society with belief in God homosexuality has ALWAYS been looked down upon, ALWAYS as far back as biblical times (which we have proven).

Um times go back FURTHER than biblical times - and NO it has NOT always been looked down upon...ugh - this is pointless you're clueless...

DrummerDeanna

01-19-2005, 05:40 PM

Eh.

People at my school make obvious that they're involved with each other. They do this via macking in the hallways, often blocking parts of them and pissing everyone off.

I don't think that's normal (or at least not in a public place such as a school). I don't know what God says about it, but to me, in my own opinion, that's not normal. It's out of the norm for the environment. School is where you go to learn. You don't go to school to be all up on your boyfriend/girlfriend for 3 minutes in a hallway. Thus, it's out of the norm.

Also, current trends in the region can determine what is called "normal" and what isn't.

It is possible to even say that homosexuality is out of the norm to some people, but I'm not going to discuss that since that's what this thread is seemingly all about. Granted, I haven't read through all of it. Granted, I don't really want to. The topic of religion is fascinating to me, but if someone starts arguing, count me out. Which is of course why I have replied a few times. :laugh: :wavey:

Yeah - I don't know why I keep arguing :laugh: I just can't help myself - but really it's pointless...and I know that - especially when up against ignorance..it just doesn't work....

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:40 PM

Wow - you believe that?

You've been very misguided...there ARE mulitple authors as well as multiple editors...and yes, your fast making the track to idiot in my mind :nod: :sorry:

You just seem to not know your stuff historically and what your spouting about it is mostly false...

If you are referring to the fact that many different authors WROTE the bible then yes of course so, only a handful of authors such as Moses wrote more than one book.

But that was not even what we were talking about before hand (which shows your skills in paying attention), we were discussing current bible translations, not the authors who wrote them. STAY FOCUSED!

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:43 PM

Yeah - I don't know why I keep arguing :laugh: I just can't help myself - but really it's pointless...and I know that - especially when up against ignorance..it just doesn't work....

I know I ask myself the same thing, but when dealing with the ignorance that you and some of the others on this forum have unleashed it’s a wonder you people can survive in the free thinking modern world, sheltering yourselves from "other views"

Wow to think that a conservative poster would have conservative views, I don't get it do you?

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:45 PM

And breeding within the human race never fails either. Why the fuss? There's plenty of the next generation to go around and the majority will procreate. Who cares if some don't?

Clearly this brings into question organised religoin and the 'truth' of scripts, not the homosexual lifestyle.

Also, you say there is no Hebrew word for homosexuality. What the f*ck does that prove? Many languages have no word for 'hello' or 'thankyou'. You think languages can be directly translated? I suggest you go back to school.

Well with "gay marriage" and "abortion" hmmm...not such a bright future do I see in 'me crystal ball!

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:48 PM

And breeding within the human race never fails either. Why the fuss? There's plenty of the next generation to go around and the majority will procreate. Who cares if some don't?

Clearly this brings into question organised religoin and the 'truth' of scripts, not the homosexual lifestyle.

Also, you say there is no Hebrew word for homosexuality. What the f*ck does that prove? Many languages have no word for 'hello' or 'thankyou'. You think languages can be directly translated? I suggest you go back to school.

And I suggest you edit your signature. Anyone, who CLAIMS to be an intellectual, rarely is...its such a pompous attitude to have. And you also disprove it when you support hatred in your posts towards others views, continually use words such as f*ck, and tell people they should "go back to school."

And I’m the nutcase?

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:50 PM

What possible difference could it make to you if some people you'll never meet and never know, get married? How does this make for "not such a bright future"? It does not concern you, it will only bring happiness (not to mention rights) to more people.

Well really in truly it doesn't. It really comes down to "don't ask don't tell." But that still doesn't mean that I’m not going to fight with others to get the marriage amendment in motion.

EnchantedSLN

01-19-2005, 05:50 PM

I know I ask myself the same thing, but when dealing with the ignorance that you and some of the others on this forum have unleashed it’s a wonder you people can survive in the free thinking modern world

:laugh: or as Bob Dylan puts it, 'you're an idiot babe, it's a wonder that you still know how to breathe.'

I agree with Deanna -- it's clearly futile to waste your logic on someone whose arguments are either completely empty, unsubstantiated claims, or malleable, changing every time they contradict themselves. For some reason I still find these threads compelling though.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 05:52 PM

:laugh: or as Bob Dylan puts it, 'you're an idiot babe, it's a wonder that you still know how to breathe.'

I agree with Deanna -- it's clearly futile to waste your logic on someone whose arguments are either completely empty, unsubstantiated claims, or malleable, changing every time they contradict themselves. For some reason I still find these threads compelling though.

Well if thats the logic I guess I could rule discussing anything with you, out!

irishgrl

01-19-2005, 06:03 PM

Besides, if you want to go that route the existence of "non-breeding" individuals in various species of animals that exhibit homosexual behavior in nature is well documented. Take bonobos (sometimes called pygmy chimpanzees), for example, with whom we share 98% of our DNA. Homosexuality, especially female, is extremely prevalent.
Case in point: the hyena. the pack is matriarchal and the dominant female will even develop pseudo male genitalia and try to have intercourse with other females. Both you AND your professor are ignorant of the basic facts of the animal kingdom, and after all, humans ARE ANIMALS.

She has insulted the children of the world by claiming to stand up for them but supporting the murder of children.

Im discusting?

Yes you ARE disgusting. for instance: did you know I spoke at a Congressional Hearing regarding child abuse? NO. Did you know that an evidence book I produced has been sent to Washington DC and is currently before the US House Committee on Judicial Performance? NO. Did you know I had an online petition to mandate supervised visitation for convicted child molesters? NO. Did you know that I have been asked to network with Justice for Children, Protect, CA Association of Protective Parents, or the Leadership Council? NO. I have a LONG history of child advocacy. I have some background in the legal field: I am a Paralegal. I attended Law School, I worked for our County Court system, and a local Family Law attorney. I am now in Social Services, and I am working toward my Master's Degree in Social Work.
When I speak about something, it is because I KNOW what I am talking about. I know the seamy underbelly of our society in a way you'll NEVER know. I also know that the institutions that are supposed to protect children do a piss poor job. I am also a mother with 3 beautiful children. You say you have a calling to protect children, but I am actually the person who is doing it.
as far as I am concerned you are another walking whoopie cushion, full of HOT SMELLY AIR.
somebody OPEN A WINDOW.

The Tower

01-19-2005, 06:06 PM

STAY FOCUSED!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is the funniest thing I've ever read on the Ledge.....

Whew.... my stomach hurts!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

irishgrl

01-19-2005, 06:06 PM

I think Lux's sig is HILARIOUS and Ive been meaning to tell her so.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 06:07 PM

Indeed it is pompous. Congratulations, you cracked the code. I am an intellectual, I read Oscar Wilde.

So by being tolerant of homosexuals (which is in fact insulting, they don't need to be 'tolerated') and presenting them as regular human beings to those who wish to demonise them, I am supporting hatred?

Thats not the case you have been presenting. You have been hateful and resentful.

I will say it for the last time maybe this time you people can hear!!!

I DO NOT hate or think any less of anyone in the world not gay nor straight. But it dosen't mean I support gay marriage. SORRY.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 06:08 PM

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is the funniest thing I've ever read on the Ledge.....

Whew.... my stomach hurts!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

why so funny?

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 06:09 PM

Yes you ARE disgusting. for instance: did you know I spoke at a Congressional Hearing regarding child abuse? NO. Did you know that an evidence book I produced has been sent to Washington DC and is currently before the US House Committee on Judicial Performance? NO. Did you know I had an online petition to mandate supervised visitation for convicted child molesters? NO. Did you know that I have been asked to network with Justice for Children, Protect, CA Association of Protective Parents, or the Leadership Council? NO. I have a LONG history of child advocacy. I have some background in the legal field: I am a Paralegal. I attended Law School, I worked for our County Court system, and a local Family Law attorney. I am now in Social Services, and I am working toward my Master's Degree in Social Work.
When I speak about something, it is because I KNOW what I am talking about. I know the seamy underbelly of our society in a way you'll NEVER know. I also know that the institutions that are supposed to protect children do a piss poor job. I am also a mother with 3 beautiful children. You say you have a calling to protect children, but I am actually the person who is doing it.
as far as I am concerned you are another walking whoopie cushion, full of HOT SMELLY AIR.
somebody OPEN A WINDOW.

And all that stuff is wonderful good for you.

But as long as you support the murder of a child who hasn't even been born yet, it sort of cancels everything else out. If you can't even stand up for the child's basic right to life...what good are all of those other things.

Serrart

01-19-2005, 06:15 PM

Indeed it is pompous. Congratulations, you cracked the code. I am an intellectual, I read Oscar Wilde.

Geez, Lux, that's illegal, haven't you read the memo they gave us at the books bonfire last week? ;)

Romy

The Tower

01-19-2005, 06:20 PM

why so funny?

It's not a surprise to me, nor anyone else on this board, that you are completely unable to grasp irony.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 06:22 PM

It's not a surprise to me, nor anyone else on this board, that you are completely unable to grasp irony.

And the insults keep on rolling. Its so much fun ;) I love proving theories of liberals being hateful, name calling, intolerant fools...right!

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 06:29 PM

irishgrl

01-19-2005, 06:38 PM

Ok, well I'm tired of going back and forth with everyone.

We should agree to disagree, none of us are going to change are views on any of these topics. It doesn't make us any less Americans we just live in a country where we can have opinions without being killed.

So, On to other topics...

God bless everyone! :wavey:
didnt I say this very thing 10 pages back? you are a piece of work.
and fyi: standing up for the children that are already HERE is even more important than worrying about the ones that arent here yet in my opinion.
and your :wavey: and your "God bless everyone" has a HOLLOW ring.

Brwn_eyes0511

01-19-2005, 10:38 PM

didnt I say this very thing 10 pages back? you are a piece of work.
and fyi: standing up for the children that are already HERE is even more important than worrying about the ones that arent here yet in my opinion.
and your :wavey: and your "God bless everyone" has a HOLLOW ring.

and i wouldn't expect you to say anything else. ;)

Johnny Stew

01-20-2005, 02:59 AM

"I certainly know more people in our community who have taken their own lives than I know who have died from AIDS."

The same is true for me. I have known more than a few young men in their teens and early 20s, who ultimately took their own lives because of the fear they felt in regards to how society and/or their parents would regard them if it were known that they were gay.

Because of this, and because of my own teenaged experiences with accepting my homosexuality, this is a subject that is VERY close to my heart, and it is perhaps the absolute biggest reason why I am so passionate and vocal about gay rights.
I know first-hand how homophobia can destroy the self-esteem of a young gay person. The callous disregard that is demonstrated by our political and religious leaders, when it comes to the feelings of a CHILD struggling with the fact that they're "different," is appalling to me.

People can thump the bible all they want, and yell that homosexuality is immoral until they're blue in the face, but, in my eyes, nothing is ever as immoral as allowing a child to believe that they don't deserve to live simply because we can't get past our stubborn adherence to barbaric prejudices.

I may be naive, but I DO believe I CAN "fight the world," and that I CAN "change it."

At this point, the price of silence is too great.

We CAN change the world, and we ARE changing the world. Slowly... far too slowly. But it's happening. So we have to keep fighting the good fight. Always.

Once again, for kids like Jimmy (http://www.jimwheeler.org/index.html), and for those who remain....

ryan8472

01-20-2005, 07:13 AM

Bravo, Justin, :thumbsup: :nod:

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

01-20-2005, 02:10 PM

EnchantedSLN

01-20-2005, 02:29 PM

If you can read this story and still say you don’t understand why I choose to be anti gay then you need serious help.

Sorry, I don't. No one should ever have to go through that kind of experience, and I'm sorry for you or anyone else who has. But the simple fact is people are raped, murdered, molested, and assaulted by heterosexuals on a daily basis as well. It doesn't make me hate and stereotype every heterosexual I run into. Basing your opinion of an entire community of people on the actions of just a few is a poor justification for any kind of prejudice.

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

01-20-2005, 02:37 PM

Sorry, I don't. No one should ever have to go through that kind of experience, and I'm sorry for you or anyone else who has. But the simple fact is people are raped, murdered, molested, and assaulted by heterosexuals on a daily basis as well. It doesn't make me hate and stereotype every heterosexual I run into. Basing your opinion of an entire community of people on the actions of just a few is a poor justification for any kind of prejudice.There you go with the hate word again. I never said I hate gays but most of you continue to bring the word up over and over again. Very unforgiving group of people here. Very unforgiving. :distress:

EnchantedSLN

01-20-2005, 02:40 PM

There you go with the hate word again. I never said I hate gays but most of you continue to bring the word up over and over again. Very unforgiving group of people here. Very unforgiving. :distress:

Well the word "anti" implies a very strong dislike for. Forget I said it then. Are you not still "against" gays, though, and would you not agree that you are stereotyping?

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

01-20-2005, 02:49 PM

Well the word "anti" implies a very strong dislike for. Forget I said it then. Are you not still "against" gays, though, and would you not agree that you are stereotyping?Yes I’m anti gay. It doesn’t mean I hate gays, but you’re clouded mind cant seem to understand that.

Would you not agree you’re guilty of stereotyping as well. Be honest.

The Tower

01-20-2005, 03:00 PM

Basing your opinion of an entire community of people on the actions of just a few is a poor justification for any kind of prejudice.

Exactly.

Yes I’m anti gay. It doesn’t mean I hate gays, but you’re clouded mind cant seem to understand that.

So, what exactly does "anti gay" mean? I'm not going to make any assumptions- you tell me what your definition is.

Also, there have been thousands of violent crimes and murders committed by heterosexuals against homosexuals simply because they are gay. The vast majority of these crimes are rarely publicized in any type of format. However, knowing all of this, I wouldn't brand all heterosexuals violent, murderous homophobes. Food for thought.

EnchantedSLN

01-20-2005, 03:01 PM

Yes I’m anti gay. It doesn’t mean I hate gays, but you’re clouded mind cant seem to understand that.

Would you not agree you’re guilty of stereotyping as well. Be honest.

My mind is pretty clear, thanks. I didn't even say you hated gays; I said if something was done to me by a person of a particular community, it wouldn't make me hate every member of that community. See? No mention of you. I do admit that it implied you hated gays though, and for that I apologize. Though I think you've certainly implied that before on this board yourself, even if that wasn't your intention.

And no, I'm not guilty of stereotyping.

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

01-20-2005, 03:18 PM

Though I think you've certainly implied that before on this board yourself, even if that wasn't your intention.Show me proof. :shrug:

And no, I'm not guilty of stereotyping.Yeah OK :laugh:

EnchantedSLN

01-20-2005, 03:27 PM

Show me proof. :shrug:

I can't show you proof of my interpretation of something. Which was obviously wrong, for which I've already apologized.

Yeah OK :laugh:

Hey, believe what you want. I don't judge groups based on individuals. Not even Republicans :p.

Sugar

01-20-2005, 04:51 PM

I’m not going to get into a long story about what happened to me in a juvenile facility at the age of 11.

I won’t tell you what that guard did to my body and soul. I just can’t let that haunt me again.

If you can read this story and still say you don’t understand why I choose to be anti gay then you need serious help.

Read it damn it. Read it.

http://www.armyofgod.com/JesseDirkhising.html

I still don't understand why you would choose to be against an entire group of people for the wrong acts of two or three.

You just gave all Iraqis the reason why it's justifiable that they should be against American soldiers.

You gave all Israelis a reason to be anti-Palestine and all Palestinians a reason to be anti-Israeli with no end in sight.

You gave countless women a reason to be anti-men.

Countless black men a reason to be anti-cop.

Countless Japanese Americans a reason to be anti-American government.

On and on...

No, I can't see why you would CHOOSE to be that way and think that's any way to live. But it is your choice. It's also your loss.

Johnny Stew

01-20-2005, 05:16 PM

This is the last post I'm going to make regarding the current topic of this thread, but I just wanted to highlight something from the website dedicated to Jimmy Wheeler (http://www.jimwheeler.org/index.html)....

"Jimmy tried to pretend that he was completely comfortable with who he was. He tried to pretend that it didn't bother him when the kids called him names like 'Faggot' or 'Queer' or that it didn't totally humiliate him when they pulled him out of the gym class shower and peed on him."

My experiences growing up were not too dissimilar to Jimmy's. I was subjected to a lot of violence and abusive behaviour, due to the fact that I was "different."

But the actions of the individuals who directed their anger, hatred and violence toward me, is solely THEIR responsibility. No one else's.
And for me to blame the entire straight white male population for the heinous actions of a few, would be near-sighted and unfair. Not the least of which to myself.

It took me a long time to find forgiveness, but I did. And, these days, my goal is to make friends and allies of those who don't happen to share my sexual orientation... rather than living my life suspicious of people because of my childhood and teenaged experiences.

Ok, back to work.

Mad4stevie

01-20-2005, 06:14 PM

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

01-20-2005, 06:34 PM

To answer you’re post “Tower”. The definition of anti gay and how it applies to me. It’s an abomination of God and if homosexuals would seek the correct counseling anything is possible in his name. I believe that and it’s my opinion like it or not.
You’re right about the number of other violent crimes. If Gods righteousness was sought by the heart of those who choose to remain blindfolded those crimes would be dealt with too.

The reason I put my 2 cents in this thread again was because of Stews post linking to the sad Jimmy site again. It’s sad that happened to Jimmy but again I believe with the correct counseling the outcome would have been different.

To elaborate a little more on the juvenile hall incident I got myself into. The guard was caught some time later. My grandfather attended the sentencing. The guard got basically a slap on the hand. In the small community I lived in at the time we found out later the judges son was gay.

To answer you’re post “Sugar”. That’s pretty out there. Rambling assumptions. I tend to take the whole gay issue personal though after my experience. I don’t need to go into the other issues you pulled out of the air.

Stew I love ya buddy. I don’t hate you nor any other homosexual on this board but after I saw the Jimmy link this morning I had to put up a link to something I found horrible too. What happened Jesse I can relate to just like you relate to Jimmy.

I’ll quote you here Stew. “This is the last post I'm going to make regarding the current topic of this thread”, but I just wanted to highlight something from the website dedicated to…
http://www.armyofgod.com/JesseDirkhising.html

By Reed Irvine and Cliff Kincaid / Accuracy In Media
In earlier commentaries we have contrasted the extensive coverage our establishment media gave to the murder of Matthew Shepard, a homosexual college student in Wyoming, and the murder by two homosexual men of Jesse Dirkhising, a seventh-grade student in Arkansas. At the end of November, a Nexis search of publications outside of Arkansas turned up only a half dozen news stories and a dozen editorials, columns and letters that mentioned the Dirkhising murder. Jonathan Gregg of Time magazine gave an explanation for this in an article on Time’s web site on November 4. He said: "The reason the Dirkhising story received so little play is because it offered no lessons. Shepard's murder touches on a host of complex and timely issues: intolerance, society's attitudes toward gays and the pressure to conform, the use of violence as a means of confronting one's demons. Jesse Dirkhising's death gives us nothing except the depravity of two sick men. There is no lesson here, no moral of tolerance, no hope to be gleaned in the punishment of the perpetrators. To be somehow equated with these monsters would be a bitter legacy indeed for Matthew Shepard." But there are important lessons to be found in the Dirkhising case. One is that the homosexual lifestyle frequently involves practices that are both revolting and what follows may not be suitable for children. Josh Brown and Davis Carpenter, the killers of Jesse Dirkhising, were just doing what Carpenter, who is thirty-eight years old, had been doing for years -- inflicting physical pain on others for kicks. Sadomasochism is celebrated in homosexual literature and art. Those who engage in it are not described as sick "monsters." There is a tendency to try extreme perversions in search of thrills. One, called "golden showers," is urinating on a partner. Another is using objects to sodomize a partner. In Jesse Dirkhising’s case, his tormentors used cucumbers, a banana, a sausage and a douche bottle. These practices are shown in the celebrated Mapplethorpe photographs. During the 1993 Gay Rights March on Washington, an exhibit in the Mellon Auditorium, a federal building, featured whips, chains, bondage devices and electric cattle prods as instruments of sexual pleasure.

The Tower

01-20-2005, 07:06 PM

To answer you’re post “Tower”. The definition of anti gay and how it applies to me. It’s an abomination of God and if homosexuals would seek the correct counseling anything is possible in his name. I believe that and it’s my opinion like it or not.

Well, there's nothing I can really say to you regarding your beliefs. However, I will allude some things to you that as a straight male you cannot know. I believe that you are not trying to offend anyone, however, the suggestion that homosexuality is a condition that can be cured or dealt with through counseling is highly offensive to me (and most homosexuals). Those in the world who stress that idea are actually contributing to the self-hatred and depression of gays.

In the small community I lived in at the time we found out later the judges son was gay.

It's absolutely non of my business what happened to you when you were younger- however, I don't understand how the judge's son being gay was related to your incident.

Jesse Dirkhising's death gives us nothing except the depravity of two sick men.

But there are important lessons to be found in the Dirkhising case. One is that the homosexual lifestyle frequently involves practices that are both revolting and what follows may not be suitable for children.

Sadomasochism is celebrated in homosexual literature and art. Those who engage in it are not described as sick "monsters." There is a tendency to try extreme perversions in search of thrills. One, called "golden showers," is urinating on a partner. Another is using objects to sodomize a partner.

These practices are shown in the celebrated Mapplethorpe photographs.

During the 1993 Gay Rights March on Washington, an exhibit in the Mellon Auditorium, a federal building, featured whips, chains, bondage devices and electric cattle prods as instruments of sexual pleasure. [/I]

I don't know where the dudes who wrote this piece come from- but, where the hell did they get off thinking that sado-masochism and all the other practices that were listed were exclusive to homosexuals??? It's absolutely ludicrous. S & M and the use of sex toys and instruments is just as prevalent, if not more so, in the straight community as in the homosexual community.

It's this kind of ignorance that encourages homophobia and bigotry.

Sugar

01-20-2005, 08:30 PM

To answer you’re post “Sugar”. That’s pretty out there. Rambling assumptions. I tend to take the whole gay issue personal though after my experience. I don’t need to go into the other issues you pulled out of the air.

Out there, huh? I just applied your justifications to any number of other people victimized by people belonging to another definable group.

Do women raped by men have any less reason to be anti-man than your reason for being anti-gay?

Never mind...like we even know if any of this is true...

The Tower

01-20-2005, 10:20 PM

Well I don't know if you're even still in this thread but no personal story of youth is ever justification for others to want to bring a level of deprivation to a whole sector of society.

If I were straight, honey, I'd be on the plane to Oz to give ya a big smooch!!!

:xoxo:

And, yes Jason, I know you have dibs on her, but I would hot-Wesson-oil-wrestle you for the fair hand of Lux... ;)

irishgrl

01-20-2005, 10:44 PM

One, called "golden showers," is urinating on a partner. Another is using objects to sodomize a partner.

I got news for ya Bubba--straight men do that sort of thing AND WORSE to women all the time. in fact, women are expected to do quite a lot to satisfy a man. I seem to recall you posting some pretty wild things on this board yourself all in the name of raging male testosterone. GIVE ME A BREAK. This isnt a GAY issue, it is a MALE issue. Whether the partner is the same or the opposite sex, the FACT remains that we are talking about what turns MEN on. for example, you previously posted that the idea of two women having relations didnt bother you. Why is that? that is still homosexuality?

edit: I want to add that I am sorry for what happened to you when you were a child. NO CHILD should have to go through that. The system should have protected you and it didnt. I (and others) am trying to bring about change so that children will BE protected. But that is a separate issue because really, what goes on behind closed doors between two consenting adults is nobody's business but their own.