This proves Bush doesnt care about the little guy

[irishgrl]

Bush to cut Community Housing programs (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1803&e=2&u=/washpost/20050114/pl_washpost/a7862_2005jan13)

Bush Plans Sharp Cuts in HUD Community Efforts

Fri Jan 14, 3:26 PM ET
Politics - washingtonpost.com

By Jonathan Weisman, Washington Post Staff Writer

The White House will seek to drastically shrink the Department of Housing and Urban Development's $8 billion community branch, purging dozens of economic development projects, scrapping a rural housing program and folding high-profile anti-poverty efforts into the Labor and Commerce departments, administration officials said yesterday.

The proposal in the upcoming 2006 budget would make good on President Bush's vow to eliminate or consolidate what he sees as duplicative or ineffective programs. Officials said yesterday that economic development programs are scattered too widely in the government and have proved particularly ineffectual at HUD.

Advocates for the poor, however, contended that the White House is trying to gut federal programs for the poorest Americans to make way for tax cuts, a mission to Mars and other presidential priorities. Administration officials would not say how much the consolidation would save, but it could lead to steep funding cuts. That is because the HUD programs would have to compete for resources in Commerce and Labor budgets that are not likely to expand to accommodate the shuffle.

"I'm always willing to look at consolidation, but clearly they're using consolidation as a shield for substantial budget reductions," said Rep. Barney Frank, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee, which has jurisdiction over housing and community development programs.

The plan was detailed in a December memo from the White House Office of Management and Budget to HUD. The document provides one of the first concrete examples of the types of cuts in the works as the administration comes to grips with a soaring deficit.

"The purpose of the exercise has nothing to do with achieving or not achieving savings," said one administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid preempting the Feb. 7 release of the president's fiscal 2006 budget request.

"What we are trying to accomplish is to meet our obligation to people living in distressed communities, to hold communities accountable for helping those people and to become more efficient in the process," another official said.
HUD programs to be moved under proposal Program's annual cost Destination
Community Development Block Grant $4.7 billion Commerce
Youthbuild USA high school dropout outreach $62 million Labor
Brownfields Economic Development $23.8 million Commerce
Rural Housing and Economic Development $23.8 million Eliminated
Empowerment Zones/Renewal Community $9.9 million Commerce

SOURCE: Office of Management and Budget | Graphic: The Washington Post

Congressional housing aides say the $4.7 billion Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) program -- the bulk of the community planning budget -- could be cut as much as 50 percent. Cities have become dependent on HUD's development programs, especially the CDBG, which has existed for 30 years, city officials said. Stanley Jackson, director of the D.C. Department of Housing and Community Development, said the city has used CDBG grants of $21 million to $22 million a year for clinics, recreation centers, day-care facilities, literacy programs and housing development.

With housing and property values skyrocketing, the need for such programs for low-income families has never been higher, he said.

"If this is a backdoor way of eliminating a program like CDBG, it would have a profoundly negative impact on cities," said Jim Hunt, a vice president of the National League of Cities and a city council member in Clarksburg, W.Va.

Under the plan, the CDBG program -- which provides multipurpose development grants to state and local governments -- would be sent to the Commerce Department. The Urban Empowerment Zones and the Renewal Community programs -- both of which offer tax incentives for development in urban or other troubled areas -- would also go to Commerce, as would the Brownfields Economic Development Initiative, designed to revitalize abandoned industrial sites.

Youthbuild USA, a $62 million program to teach teens home-construction skills, would be sent to the Labor Department. The $24 million rural housing and economic development program would probably be eliminated.

HUD would maintain the Home Investment Partnerships to build or buy affordable housing, homeless assistance programs and housing assistance for AIDS sufferers. The budget would eliminate $260 million in economic development projects earmarked for this year by lawmakers. HUD could ultimately lose a quarter of its $31 billion budget.

White House officials said HUD employees would have to stay on the job to oversee outstanding grants for some time. But with Bush promising an aggressive attack on domestic spending, the 817 HUD community planning and development employees are girding for the worst.

"It's a body blow," said one career employee, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of being fired.

The proposal could face an uphill fight in Congress, said Frank, who called the proposal "just appalling." With budgets tight, vested interests in the Commerce and Labor departments would be expected to favor their programs over the newcomers from HUD. "It wouldn't even be a fair fight," he said.

Moreover, HUD has evolved into an agency designed to support urban interests and low-income citizens, while Commerce and Labor are more receptive to business needs. Indeed, community development programs at HUD are far larger than those at Commerce and Labor, said Saul Ramirez Jr., executive director of the National Association of Housing and Redevelopment Officials and a former deputy secretary of housing. The Commerce Department's Economic Development Administration has a $320 million budget, a fraction of CDBG's allocation.



"If there are any programs in Commerce that encourage direct economic development to some of the most disadvantaged and blighted areas, those programs are dwarfed by these programs," he said. "If [consolidation] is what they want, the reverse should be proposed."

One White House official agreed that HUD programs have more of a community focus, while the Commerce Department's Economic Development Administration is more interested in economic growth. But, he said, "they're funding a lot of the same things."

HUD's city focus may be why the White House is dismantling the HUD programs, Frank charged. "HUD is the place where mayors and urban interests can put up the strongest fight," he said.

[77Rumours77]

HA!
Thats for all you suckas how voted for him!
BOO YA! lol :thumbsup: :sorry: :lol:

[gldstwmn]

Yup, every liberal president from Roosevelt to Carter's social programs are being cut.
HUD/section 8 properties in my area are being evacuated and turned over to be sold as for profit real estate ventures.
In fact, I'm working on a purchase for a client right now in which the land that was developed into a PUD was obtained via eminent domain. It had some houses on it and some of it was farm land (non working) that was in city limits. She went to work, all excited about her new home. When she told one of her co-workers her new address, she found out the co-workers parents had owned some of the land for 70 years and were forced to move when the development was green lighted by the city. She plans to hang a photograph of the area prior to development in her new home because she feels bad about it and wants to appease any old spirtis that may be hanging around. ;)
Living in a totalitarian fascist state isn't bad as long as you're in one of the upper classes. Y'all take cover. Oh and God bless.

[SuzeQuze]

In my area of Boston a small one bedroom apartment sells at about 300 to 350k. A reasonably sized 2 bedroom would be 500+. I do not know how a "normal income" family could own here. They can't. All of MA is insane. I've searched for condos for 150k and only a tiny handful are available. They are somewhat remote, or need a lot of work. You cannot get a decent house here for less than 300k, unless it is remote. This "plan" is awful. As if we needed any more proof that Bush hates the poor. I guess "hate" is strong but who else would you treat so badly but an enemy? He sucks, man. :distress:

[GypsySorcerer]

Bush to cut Community Housing programs (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1803&e=2&u=/washpost/20050114/pl_washpost/a7862_2005jan13)

Youthbuild USA, a $62 million program to teach teens home-construction skills, would be sent to the Labor Department. The $24 million rural housing and economic development program would probably be eliminated.



The rural population elected him. The sad thing is, even with policies that hurt them, most of the rural population would still vote for Bush today. They're too afraid that the liberals are going to come confiscate their guns and Bibles.

[SuzeQuze]

The rural population elected him. The sad thing is, even with policies that hurt them, most of the rural population would still vote for Bush today. They're too afraid that the liberals are going to come confiscate their guns and Bibles.

It literally makes me ill. I have an old e-mail account I went to clean out and there were some pro-Bush e-mails in there from my aunt, who I now feel like shaking. I am just flabberghasted. She's certainly not rich and she comes from poverty because her father died when she was about 9. Her mother was left to raise 5 kids on Social Security. See my conundrum? As they say on Morning Sedition, "Wake up sheeple!"

[estranged4life]

Advocates for the poor, however, contended that the White House is trying to gut federal programs for the poorest Americans to make way for tax cuts, a mission to Mars

a trip to Mars to locate the OBL & those darn tootin' WMD's I bet (Cant forget the U.S. has to protect the population of Mars from radical extremist too) :thumbsup:

[½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®]

All of MA is insane. :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :lol:

[gldstwmn]

In my area of Boston a small one bedroom apartment sells at about 300 to 350k. A reasonably sized 2 bedroom would be 500+. I do not know how a "normal income" family could own here. They can't. All of MA is insane. I've searched for condos for 150k and only a tiny handful are available. They are somewhat remote, or need a lot of work. You cannot get a decent house here for less than 300k, unless it is remote. This "plan" is awful. As if we needed any more proof that Bush hates the poor. I guess "hate" is strong but who else would you treat so badly but an enemy? He sucks, man. :distress:

Come west young woman. I just saw the cutest bungalow townhouse with wood floors, fireplace and a clawfoot tub for $160,000.

[amber]

Come west young woman. I just saw the cutest bungalow townhouse with wood floors, fireplace and a clawfoot tub for $160,000.
But not too far west, don't come to Cali. It's the same, but worse. :distress:
Wow, really, GDW? yum! Wish I could!

[gldstwmn]

The rural population elected him. The sad thing is, even with policies that hurt them, most of the rural population would still vote for Bush today. They're too afraid that the liberals are going to come confiscate their guns and Bibles.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[estranged4life]

Come west young woman. I just saw the cutest bungalow townhouse with wood floors, fireplace and a clawfoot tub for $160,000.

in Oklahoma ya can get the same for around $40,000...For $160,000 you can by a small mansion or a newly built 3 Bedroom 2 Bath 2 car garage with acreage.

[SuzeQuze]

Come west young woman. I just saw the cutest bungalow townhouse with wood floors, fireplace and a clawfoot tub for $160,000.

I'm drooling. That's awesome and in my price range.

[gldstwmn]

But not too far west, don't come to Cali. It's the same, but worse. :distress:
Wow, really, GDW? yum! Wish I could!

I'm half tempted to buy it as an investment property.
California real estate is a whole other matter. But it is beautiful there so...

[irishgrl]

I bought a little (very little LOL!) manufactured home (2bd 2ba) for $85k up in the mountains above Chico right before the interest rates started going up. That was 2 years ago and my little place could appraise over $100k right now! I've heard of people selling their homes in CA and moving east and paying CASH for a HUGE home, with lots of land! If my heart wasnt tied to this corner of the world, I'd GO! But, as someone else said, its pretty here in CA, some parts prettier than others, but hey! Course, where Amber lives you deal with folks with attitude, noise, dirt, traffic, mad rush at 3 am etc.....believe me I know, I commuted via BART train for an hour to get to the city to go to law school...

[Brwn_eyes0511]

idiots who voted for Bush...like...ummmm the majority of America!?! haha...

sorry...hard core conservative here, Ann Coulter is one of my heroes! But I don't judge people who have different political views than myself! Differences, and the ability to express them are what makes us Americans...

but...having said that...the initial post on this thread is full of liberal bias! Gee and I wonder why...could it be because it was written by someone at the Washington Times...almost as worse as the New York Times (why don't the terrorists attack New York Times building?!?...well I know why...cause it be because they are the terrorists best friends!) ;)

[gldstwmn]

could it be because it was written by someone at the Washington Times...almost as worse as the New York Times (why don't the terrorists attack New York Times building?!?...well I know why...cause it be because they are the terrorists best friends!) ;)

Do you mean the Washington Post? The Washington times is owned by the Reverand Moon and is basically a mouthpiece for conservative pravda.
Speaking of the New York Times, ever hear of Judith Miller?

[irishgrl]

idiots who voted for Bush...like...ummmm the majority of America!?! haha...
you mean the ill gotten votes from machines that were tampered with? or the "default" votes that should have gone to Kerry? I would lay you odds if every vote in Ohio were examined the way they should have been, Bush would not have carried that state, nor would he have won that bogus election. PUH LEEZ.

btw: apparently you arent in that group of people that will be affected by this particular shortfall. pat yourself on the back. but have no fear, sooner or later, this evil administration will do something that WILL affect you and then you will have to admit that it was all due to your own shortsightedness.

[amber]

btw: apparently you arent in that group of people that will be affected by this particular shortfall. pat yourself on the back. but have no fear, sooner or later, this evil administration will do something that WILL affect you and then you will have to admit that it was all due to your own shortsightedness.
:nod:
I was gonna say, I hope he/she is rich, cause that's who bush works for... :mad:

[dissention]

idiots who voted for Bush...like...ummmm the majority of America!?! haha...

sorry...hard core conservative here, Ann Coulter is one of my heroes! But I don't judge people who have different political views than myself! Differences, and the ability to express them are what makes us Americans...

but...having said that...the initial post on this thread is full of liberal bias! Gee and I wonder why...could it be because it was written by someone at the Washington Times...almost as worse as the New York Times (why don't the terrorists attack New York Times building?!?...well I know why...cause it be because they are the terrorists best friends!) ;)

If Ann Coulter is one of your heroes, you must be deaf because you obviously can't hear the **** that spews from that gaping hole in her face. :thumbsup:

[dissention]

but...having said that...the initial post on this thread is full of liberal bias! Gee and I wonder why...could it be because it was written by someone at the Washington Times...almost as worse as the New York Times (why don't the terrorists attack New York Times building?!?...well I know why...cause it be because they are the terrorists best friends!) ;)

A true conservative would never confuse a true bastion of journalism like the Washington Post with the likes of the Washington Times! Moonie would recoil in horror and make you surrender your right to call yourslf a conservative. :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

you mean the ill gotten votes from machines that were tampered with?

"...just another sad love song..."

the same tune over and over again!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

If Ann Coulter is one of your heroes, you must be deaf because you obviously can't hear the **** that spews from that gaping hole in her face. :thumbsup:

The truth has been called many things...so I suppose if you would like to call it ****...you could!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

A true conservative would never confuse a true bastion of journalism like the Washington Post with the likes of the Washington Times! Moonie would recoil in horror and make you surrender your right to call yourslf a conservative. :laugh:

come now...I made a typing error that I didn't catch until now...I know Im not going to live this one down...lol :)

[Brwn_eyes0511]

you mean the ill gotten votes from machines that were tampered with? or the "default" votes that should have gone to Kerry? I would lay you odds if every vote in Ohio were examined the way they should have been, Bush would not have carried that state, nor would he have won that bogus election. PUH LEEZ.

btw: apparently you arent in that group of people that will be affected by this particular shortfall. pat yourself on the back. but have no fear, sooner or later, this evil administration will do something that WILL affect you and then you will have to admit that it was all due to your own shortsightedness.

Yes, and the liberal agenda would suite this country much better :laugh:

"eat, drink, and murder the unborn"...the slogan of every liberal!

[Hawkeye]

Yes, and the liberal agenda would suite this country much better :laugh:

"eat, drink, and murder the unborn"...the slogan of every liberal!

no the liberals on this board diet and kill the unborn :laugh:

[estranged4life]

no the liberals on this board diet and kill the unborn :laugh:

liberals on this board? Wow, ya dont say :lol:

Man, I always thought the Ledge was the a haven for us "Independent" voters, Man am I ever disappointed...Boo-frikkedy-hoo!!! :thumbsup:

[ontheEdgeof17]

"eat, drink, and murder the unborn"...the slogan of every liberal!


How rude. I take offense to that.

[heyjupiter678]

How rude. I take offense to that.
As do I. :mad:

[dissention]

The truth has been called many things...so I suppose if you would like to call it ****...you could!

Exactly what truth are you talking about, dear? Ann Coulter has said:

-Women should not be allowed to vote.
-There should be a poll tax for voting.
-Children under 18 should be flogged publicly if they commit crimes.
-We should invade Muslim countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.
-Joe McCarthy is one of the greatest men in our country's history.

Shall I go on? Call it what you will and it may be your "truth," but the truth it most certainly isn't. It's a load of sensationalistic bull**** that is spouted off to get people fired up, get them talking, and get them to buy your book to see what ridiculous crap you're going to say next. Gimme a break, dear.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Sorry guys...I don't want to offend anyone at all! im not a crude person...

I just have to call it like I know it to be...

perhaps a better way to phrase it would be "pro-choice"...

but murder it still is...call it what you'd like!

I think its odd how those who are Against abortion are called "Anti-choice" like it is a "negative thing" yet those who are "Pro-choice" are given that "pro" positive spin on things...hmmm

anyways...don't want to offend you guys...sorry if i did...forgive me :)

[dissention]

Yes, and the liberal agenda would suite this country much better :laugh:

"eat, drink, and murder the unborn"...the slogan of every liberal!

Classy! :thumbsup:

[dissention]

Sorry guys...I don't want to offend anyone at all! im not a crude person...

I just have to call it like I know it to be...

perhaps a better way to phrase it would be "pro-choice"...

but murder it still is...call it what you'd like!

I think its odd how those who are Against abortion are called "Anti-choice" like it is a "negative thing" yet those who are "Pro-choice" are given that "pro" positive spin on things...hmmm

anyways...don't want to offend you guys...sorry if i did...forgive me :)

I've never heard them referred to as "anti-choice." They're called pro-life.

And, since you're conservative, do you support capital punishment? Did you support the war in Iraq? If your answer is yes to one or both of those questions, you're just as much a "murderer" as us crazy liberals. :nod:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Exactly what truth are you talking about, dear? Ann Coulter has said:

-Women should not be allowed to vote.
-There should be a poll tax for voting.
-Children under 18 should be flogged publicly if they commit crimes.
-We should invade Muslim countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.
-Joe McCarthy is one of the greatest men in our country's history.

Shall I go on? Call it what you will and it may be your "truth," but the truth it most certainly isn't. It's a load of sensationalistic bull**** that is spouted off to get people fired up, get them talking, and get them to buy your book to see what ridiculous crap you're going to say next. Gimme a break, dear.

I have no problem with what Ann says...especially about invading their countries and converting them! In an interview if asked if she had any regrets after saying that...she simply replied..."Yes...I didn't say it loud enough"... :nod: And I am ALL for a poll tax!

Alot of Ann's quotes are taken out of context...if you would actually READ HER stuff...instead of off something as pathetic as Air America (btw...is that still on?) or some other liberal garbage place, you would actually read it in context!

[GateandGarden]

Exactly what truth are you talking about, dear? Ann Coulter has said:

-Women should not be allowed to vote.
-There should be a poll tax for voting.
-Children under 18 should be flogged publicly if they commit crimes.
-We should invade Muslim countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity.
-Joe McCarthy is one of the greatest men in our country's history.

Shall I go on? Call it what you will and it may be your "truth," but the truth it most certainly isn't. It's a load of sensationalistic bull**** that is spouted off to get people fired up, get them talking, and get them to buy your book to see what ridiculous crap you're going to say next. Gimme a break, dear.Exactly. And in addition to that, you calling someone who hates gay people a hero of yours doesn't sit well with at least on gay person on this board (moi) and I assume not all the others as well.

but murder it still is...call it what you'd like!I don't see how the subject can possibly be viewed in such a simple way.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I've never heard them referred to as "anti-choice." They're called pro-life.

And, since you're conservative, do you support capital punishment? Did you support the war in Iraq? If your answer is yes to one or both of those questions, you're just as much a "murderer" as us crazy liberals. :nod:

I support War in Iraq...murder and self defense are to different things...someone who is attacking you...and you kill them...its not murder...

a helpless baby in a mothers womb...who gets its brains sucked out as it actually screams in agony...THATS murder.

And I have mixed feelings about Capitol punishment!

[Hawkeye]

I'm very much against the Iraq war, despite dissention's weird preeption of my preceptions :laugh: And VER VERY much for the death penalty. I personally think the new form of Death Penalty for real serious murderers should be a bear pit, where they get ripped to shrerads by hungry ferocious bears. And then there's abortion, shouldn't be a legal thing, but is neccasary in extreme cases but overall wrong.

[GateandGarden]

I have no problem with what Ann says...especially about invading their countries and converting them! In an interview if asked if she had any regrets after saying that...she simply replied..."Yes...I didn't say it loud enough"... :nod::shocked: :eek: Well, that says quite a lot, doesn't it? And I won't hesitate to say that that is simply horrible. Offensive? Uh, yeah, I would think so. Please don't start telling all of us that there is only one truth and we should all accept it.

[dissention]

I have no problem with what Ann says...especially about invading their countries and converting them! In an interview if asked if she had any regrets after saying that...she simply replied..."Yes...I didn't say it loud enough"... :nod: And I am ALL for a poll tax!

Alot of Ann's quotes are taken out of context...if you would actually READ HER stuff...instead of off of Air America (btw...is that still on?) you would actually read it in context!

You poor deluded creature. :xoxo:

If you agree with her about killing Muslim leaders, invading their countries, and converting them to Christianity, I question your empathy and your knowledge about the world we live in. It was an offensive, ridiculous comment and if you can't see that, you're beyond help.

I've read three of Ann Coulter's "books" and every one of them is filled with lies and half-truths. They are what they are: fiction. You can tell me how she's taken out of context, but I've heard it all before from Ann herself and it's always bull****. Spin if you must, though. Just last spring she went on O'Reilly and said the war was going "magnificently well." If you take that as the truth, you're just as sadly misinformed as she is.

And, yes, Air America is still on. It's doing fabulously in the ratings for a first year radio network, too.

[Hawkeye]

I support War in Iraq...murder and self defense are to different things...someone who is attacking you...and you kill them...its not murder...

a helpless baby in a mothers womb...who gets its brains sucked out as it actually screams in agony...THATS murder.

And I have mixed feelings about Capitol punishment!

Iraq was not attacking us.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Exactly. And in addition to that, you calling someone who hates gay people a hero of yours doesn't sit well with at least on gay person on this board (moi) and I assume not all the others as well.

I don't see how the subject can possibly be viewed in such a simple way.

She dosen't HATE gay people! I don't either!

Liberals are the ones who don't care for gay people...they use them as leverage to win elections (as well as race baiting).

Conservatives just don't want gay people to get married...we don't HATE you!

I don't want to offend you...just because I don't agree with a persons life style...dosen't mean I can't get along with them and be their friend! Sorry...don't want to offend you :sorry:

[ontheEdgeof17]

I support War in Iraq...murder and self defense are to different things...someone who is attacking you...and you kill them...its not murder...





When did Iraq attack us under this administration?

[Hawkeye]

She dosen't HATE gay people! I don't either!

Liberals are the ones who HATE gay people...they use them as leverage to win elections (as well as race baiting).

Conservatives just don't want gay people to get married...we don't HATE you!

I don't want to offend you...just because I don't agree with a persons life style...dosen't mean I can't get along with them and be their friend! Sorry...don't want to offend you :sorry:

I tend to believe gay people single handidly won Bush the election, so it's the complete oppositte.

[dissention]

I support War in Iraq...murder and self defense are to different things...someone who is attacking you...and you kill them...its not murder...

Oh my. Did Iraq ever attack us? No. Just exactly why did the UN refuse to authorize war? Go read Article 2-4 of the UN Charter along with Article 51 and Chapter 7 and get back to me. Here's a hint: it wasn't self defense. Bonus points if you could tell me what Daniel Webster's definition of self defense is!

a helpless baby in a mothers womb...who gets its brains sucked out as it actually screams in agony...THATS murder.

That's utter bull**** and you know it. Present the truth and not fantasy tales and then we can continue this conversation liked informed adults.

[GateandGarden]

She dosen't HATE gay people! I don't either!

Liberals are the ones who HATE gay people...they use them as leverage to win elections (as well as race baiting).

Conservatives just don't want gay people to get married...we don't HATE you!

I don't want to offend you...just because I don't agree with a persons life style...dosen't mean I can't get along with them and be their friend! Sorry...don't want to offend you :sorry:Sorry, but I don't see how liberals hate gay people. I'm a liberal and gay, so that doesn't quite work. :shrug: Also, not letting us get married is definitely a form of hatred--many Republicans seem to think that marriage is exclusively for heterosexuals. That's called discrimination. And homosexuality is not a lifestyle, just as heterosexuality is not. They are equal in every way. These are things I've been explaining nearly all of my life and I'm quite the broken record. :distress: And please don't tell me Ann Coulter doesn't hate gay people. PLEASE. I read her section about gays in her latest book and she doesn't even care if a guy or girl gets to see his or her dying partner in the hospital or not. She truly doesn't give a **** about it.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

When did Iraq attack us under this administration?

No one country as a whole attacked us...a group of terrorist did...which are linked to more than one country...and you don't think that Iraq was one of the links in that chain then you are seriously misguided!

[amber]

She dosen't HATE gay people! I don't either!

Liberals are the ones who don't care for gay people...they use them as leverage to win elections (as well as race baiting).

Conservatives just don't want gay people to get married...we don't HATE you!

I don't want to offend you...just because I don't agree with a persons life style...dosen't mean I can't get along with them and be their friend! Sorry...don't want to offend you :sorry:
:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh:
"we like you, you're nice, you just can't have the same basic human rights as we do"
:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Oh my. Did Iraq ever attack us? No. Just exactly why did the UN refuse to authorize war? Go read Article 2-4 of the UN Charter along with Article 51 and Chapter 7 and get back to me. Here's a hint: it wasn't self defense. Bonus points if you could tell me what Daniel Webster's definition of self defense is!



That's utter bull**** and you know it. Present the truth and not fantasy tales and then we can continue this conversation liked informed adults.

The child is alive...and have you ever witnessed an abortion...because I have had that unfortunate task to see one....the child is sucked out...which ever part they get to first...the suck it out bit by bit...and in a partial birth abortion...they puncture a hole in the head and suck the brain out!

[GateandGarden]

That's utter bull**** and you know it. Present the truth and not fantasy tales and then we can continue this conversation liked informed adults.Agreed. The embryo or fetus is not "screaming in agony" during the abortion.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Conservatives just don't want gay people to get married...we don't HATE you!



Gimme a reason please. If you says the Bible says so.......read Levitius. There are a lot of things that you probably do that are termed "unclean".

[GateandGarden]

The child is alive...and have you ever witnessed an abortion...because I have had that unfortunate task to see one....the child is sucked out...which ever part they get to first...the suck it out bit by bit...and in a partial birth abortion...they puncture a hole in the head and suck the brain out!To my knowledge, no one said that anyone should be able to have a partial-birth abortion in any situation. Those are for extreme cases.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Sorry, but I don't see how liberals hate gay people. I'm a liberal and gay, so that doesn't quite work. :shrug: Also, not letting us get married is definitely a form of hatred--many Republicans seem to think that marriage is exclusively for heterosexuals. That's called discrimination. And homosexuality is not a lifestyle, just as heterosexuality is not. They are equal in every way. These are things I've been explaining nearly all of my life and I'm quite the broken record. :distress: And please don't tell me Ann Coulter doesn't hate gay people. PLEASE. I read her section about gays in her latest book and she doesn't even care if a guy or girl gets to see his or her dying partner in the hospital or not. She truly doesn't give a **** about it.


well this is where we pass beyond politics...and into beliefs and religon...

and as a christian this is my views...but I don't HATE anyone!

and don't get sucked into it...liberals use racial and gay baiting to win elections...which, like this last election shows...blows up in their faces!

[GateandGarden]

:laugh: :lol: :laugh:
"we like you, you're nice, you just can't have the same basic human rights as we do"
:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:I love you Amber! :xoxo: Let's get married! Oh wait..:mad:

[ontheEdgeof17]

No one country as a whole attacked us...a group of terrorist did...which are linked to more than one country...and you don't think that Iraq was one of the links in that chain then you are seriously misguided!


Let's attack America, too. There are American terrorist that attack our country often.

[dissention]

The child is alive...and have you ever witnessed an abortion...because I have had that unfortunate task to see one....the child is sucked out...which ever part they get to first...the suck it out bit by bit...and in a partial birth abortion...they puncture a hole in the head and suck the brain out!

Thank you for your colorful explanation, I'm sure you couldn't have said it any better.

Once again, know your **** before jumping into such a conversation. Partial-birth abortions are illegal in many states. The states that allow them have sole discretion as to when and why they are performed. They are only performed when the life of the mother is in jeopardy. The doctor and the state have sole discretion. Please do not confuse abortions with partial birth abortions because it makes you look idiotic.

And I'm still waiting for you to read the UN Charter and for you to define self defense.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

To my knowledge, no one said that anyone should be able to have a partial-birth abortion in any situation. Those are for extreme cases.

extreme? its for NO cases...thanks to President Bush its illegal!

[GateandGarden]

well this is where we pass beyond politics...and into beliefs and religon...

and as a christian this is my views...but I don't HATE anyone!It sounds like your belief system requires you to hate select people.

and don't get sucked into it...liberals use racial and gay baiting to win elections...which, like this last election shows...blows up in their faces!You see, the liberals are the only ones interested in implementing legislation that is in any way beneficial to minorities.

[amber]

I love you Amber! :xoxo: Let's get married! Oh wait..:mad:
:mad: :mad:
:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:
well, basically that's what he/she said meant. totally ridiculous.

[Hawkeye]

The only thing that confuses the hell out of me and no one ever gives me a straight answer is how mpst people who think abortion is right don't want the death penalty. Osama and Serial Killers = Should Live and mother who isn't ready to have a baby = kill it.

[dissention]

Agreed. The embryo or fetus is not "screaming in agony" during the abortion.

It would be physically and biologically impossible for it to do so. :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

extreme? its for NO cases...thanks to President Bush its illegal!Right. So in the event that giving birth will kill the mother, Dubya made the procedure illegal. Now who's a murderer?

[dissention]

No one country as a whole attacked us...a group of terrorist did...which are linked to more than one country...and you don't think that Iraq was one of the links in that chain then you are seriously misguided!

Funny thing is that every investigation disagrees with you. :woohoo:

[dissention]

extreme? its for NO cases...thanks to President Bush its illegal!

It was struck down, dear. Once again, it's a matter of you not knowing your ****. :wavey:

[GateandGarden]

The only thing that confuses the hell out of me and no one ever gives me a straight answer is how mpst people who think abortion is right don't want the death penalty. Osama and Serial Killers = Should Live and mother who isn't ready to have a baby = kill it.1) I don't want to make decisions about other people's bodies.
2) Making it abortion illegal doesn't stop it from happening. It will still happen and be less safe. I think it's worse for someone to give birth and throw the baby in a dumpster and leave it to die because she couldn't legally have an abortion.

But you've heard these things before, I'm sure.

[GateandGarden]

It was struck down, dear. Once again, it's a matter of you not knowing your ****. :wavey:Uh oh. I should've known that. :o

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Thank you for your colorful explanation, I'm sure you couldn't have said it any better.

Once again, know your **** before jumping into such a conversation. Partial-birth abortions are illegal in many states. The states that allow them have sole discretion as to when and why they are performed. They are only performed when the life of the mother is in jeopardy. The doctor and the state have sole discretion. Please do not confuse abortions with partial birth abortions because it makes you look idiotic.

And I'm still waiting for you to read the UN Charter and for you to define self defense.

abortion is abortion....I don't care how large or small the child is...its still a child! murder is a murder!

[dissention]

Uh oh. I should've known that. :o

Actually, I don't know, I confuse it with Connor's Law ( :rolleyes: ) pretty often, so I'm not sure. Lemme look.

[GateandGarden]

:mad: :mad:
:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:
well, that's basically that's what he/she said meant. totally ridiculous.Totally! :nod: :xoxo:

[Hawkeye]

1) I don't want to make decisions about other people's bodies.
2) Making it abortion illegal doesn't stop it from happening. It will still happen and be less safe. I think it's worse for someone to give birth and throw the baby in a dumpster and leave it to die because she couldn't legally have an abortion.

But you've heard these things before, I'm sure.

And that mother who threw the baby in the dumster deserves to have her ass murdered via the death penalty.

[ontheEdgeof17]

1) I don't want to make decisions about other people's bodies.
2) Making it abortion illegal doesn't stop it from happening. It will still happen and be less safe. I think it's worse for someone to give birth and throw the baby in a dumpster and leave it to die because she couldn't legally have an abortion.

But you've heard these things before, I'm sure.


Amen sista! If my baby was to be born w/o a brain, with no chance of living somewhat of a normal life....I would have the option to abort it. Would I do it is another issue, but the option is still there.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

It was struck down, dear. Once again, it's a matter of you not knowing your ****. :wavey:

hmmm...it figures it was struck down...can't say it surprises me...

end times...come quick!

[dissention]

abortion is abortion....I don't care how large or small the child is...its still a child! murder is a murder!

Eh, there's no logic behind your train of thought on this issue, so believe what you want.

[ontheEdgeof17]

abortion is abortion....I don't care how large or small the child is...its still a child! murder is a murder!


A child is one between birth and puberty.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Funny thing is that every investigation disagrees with you. :woohoo:


really...we must be reading lots of different "investigations" then!

[amber]

hmmm...it figures it was struck down...can't say it surprises me...

end times...come quick!
Whoa! :shocked: :shocked: :eek:

[Hawkeye]

Amen sista! If my baby was to be born w/o a brain, with no chance of living somewhat of a normal life....I would have the option to abort it. Would I do it is another issue, but the option is still there.

I'm all for abortions with babies who will have horrible birth defects or if they'll kill the mother or if it was rape or incest. But just some bitch who got herself pregant and just doesn't feel like having a baby so I'll just kill it, is barbaric as Dissention once said about the deaht penalty.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Right. So in the event that giving birth will kill the mother, Dubya made the procedure illegal. Now who's a murderer?

Well, again that goes to my religous belifes...

in cases like that (I am Roman Catholic) it is the hope of the Church that the Mother will CHOOSE her childs life over her own...after all wouldn't we give our life for our children!

[dissention]

really...we must be reading lots of different "investigations" then!

We must be. Care to quote any of the ones you've read?

[GateandGarden]

And that mother who threw the baby in the dumster deserves to have her ass murdered via the death penalty.I still don't believe in taking a grown person's life. And if I really believed in God I would be even more vehement about that, perhaps, because in that case, I would definitely say that only God should take a person's life like that.

[GateandGarden]

Well, again that goes to my religous belifes...

in cases like that (I am Roman Catholic) it is the hope of the Church that the Mother will CHOOSE her childs life over her own...after all wouldn't we give our life for our children!Yes, well, we have separation of church and state and freedom of religion and such.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I'm all for abortions with babies who will have horrible birth defects or if they'll kill the mother or if it was rape or incest. But just some bitch who got herself pregant and just doesn't feel like having a baby so I'll just kill it, is barbaric as Dissention once said about the deaht penalty.

Is it the childs fault it was concieved do to rape!

why should it be someones decision to say "hey...I don't want to look at you...you are a bad reminder...so I am going to have to kill you!"

The child dosen't get the right to say "HEY I WANT TO LIVE"...

whose to say one of these children killed in abortion could have been the one to find the cure to cancer...or aids! guess will never know if we keep making choices for those who have no choice!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Yes, well, we have separation of church and state and freedom of religion and such.

exactly! This is why I kind of stray from this topic...

I don't want to make anyone angry...Im new to the board and want to make friends..

I don't HATE anyone...I just have my personal views about religon...life...and how the country should be run!

hope you aren't angry at me

[GateandGarden]

Is it the childs fault it was concieved do to rape!

why should it be someones decision to say "hey...I don't want to look at you...you are a bad reminder...so I am going to have to kill you!"

The child dosen't get the right to say "HEY I WANT TO LIVE"...

whose to say one of these children killed in abortion could have been the one to find the cure to cancer...or aids! guess will never know if we keep making choices for those who have no choice!Until someone can prove that a bundle of tissues is actually a child, then it's not taking a child's life. And that tired line about the cure for cancer is older and more worn-out than my lines about gay rights.

[Hawkeye]

I still don't believe in taking a grown person's life. And if I really believed in God I would be even more vehement about that, perhaps, because in that case, I would definitely say that only God should take a person's life like that.

you see a grown person made a BAD CHOICE. That baby did not make a bad choice.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Eh, there's no logic behind your train of thought on this issue, so believe what you want.

just curious isn't the chick in your avitar a conservative...kennedy somebody?

[dissention]

hope you aren't angry at me

I'm not angry at anyone, I'd just like for you to take part in this conversation on an intellectual level. You still have not answered any of my inquiries regarding self defense or the reports that linked Iraq to our country's attack on 9/11. If I call and you can't come, just let me know.

[ontheEdgeof17]

I'm all for abortions with babies who will have horrible birth defects or if they'll kill the mother or if it was rape or incest. But just some bitch who got herself pregant and just doesn't feel like having a baby so I'll just kill it, is barbaric as Dissention once said about the deaht penalty.



I'm not for random abortions. It's not my body or life, though...it's the choice of each woman. If we don't educate on the importance of wearing a condom, using birth control...then we are going to have more babies in dumpsters. The President is blind to back allies and rural communities. He's so out of touch of what is really going on, that his big plans for have a sex-free teenage society will eventually bite him in the ass.

[estranged4life]

Sorry, but I don't see how liberals hate gay people. I'm a liberal and gay, so that doesn't quite work. :shrug: Also, not letting us get married is definitely a form of hatred--many Republicans seem to think that marriage is exclusively for heterosexuals. That's called discrimination. And homosexuality is not a lifestyle, just as heterosexuality is not. They are equal in every way.

I agree with ya 1000%...And remember I am an In-De-Pen-Dent, (C'mon, Say it with me y'all...In-De-Pen-Dent...Good, Now say it 10,000 times in a row tonight and maybe, Just maybe it will brainwash ya into joinin' us on the 'other'-other side :thumbsup: ), who has never (Or will) understand why most in this country seems more afraid of a gay couple getting married (Hey, If yer in love and ya found your soulmate that ya want to spend the rest of your life with in marriage, What effing right is it that the government should interfere??? Hey government idiots F.O.A.D. and let people get married no matter their sexual orientation, ok?) instead of some radical extremist parking a nuke in downtown Holly-weird...

[dissention]

just curious isn't the chick in your avitar a conservative...kennedy somebody?

No, the chick in my avatar is Susan Powter, an insane yet extremely liberal person.

[GateandGarden]

exactly! This is why I kind of stray from this topic...

I don't want to make anyone angry...Im new to the board and want to make friends..

I don't HATE anyone...I just have my personal views about religon...life...and how the country should be run!

hope you aren't angry at meWell, it's just that many of us on here are gay and would love to get married one day. You have NO IDEA how much time I have spent SOBBING because one of my goals in life is to get married one day and conservatives want to ensure that I never do. I am saving myself for marriage. Fat chance. Also, lots of folks on here are atheists, and many who are Christian do not believe that their religious beliefs are the one, solid truth.

And, again, I'm sorry, but when someone tells me that I can't get married, that shatters one of my life's dreams that has been shattered time after time, and I can't not be angry.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Until someone can prove that a bundle of tissues is actually a child, then it's not taking a child's life. And that tired line about the cure for cancer is older and more worn-out than my lines about gay rights.

well thats where we get into religon again...The "tissue" looks like a child, so...where it exactly did we come from...were we not once that "blob of tissue"...just because we don't remember it..dosen't mean we didn't have any sort of "feeling" or emotion back then!

hey you know what they say "If it looks like a duck..."

[Hawkeye]

just curious isn't the chick in your avitar a conservative...kennedy somebody?

See Dissention, changing your avitar from that great Stevie one, came back to bite you in the ass :laugh:

[ontheEdgeof17]

you see a grown person made a BAD CHOICE. That baby did not make a bad choice.


...and the baby will end up in a dumpster or living an abusive life. I can look up the facts/stats on that if you like. They will grow up in an abusive family, end up having Conduct Disorder and the cycle will start again.

[dissention]

you see a grown person made a BAD CHOICE. That baby did not make a bad choice.

If you can call a clump of cells a baby, I guess you can call Julia Roberts a good actress.

[amber]

I'm not angry at anyone, I'd just like for you to take part in this conversation on an intellectual level. You still have not answered any of my inquiries regarding self defense or the reports that linked Iraq to our country's attack on 9/11. If I call and you can't come, just let me know.
bump.
pfftt.

[GateandGarden]

you see a grown person made a BAD CHOICE. That baby did not make a bad choice.I agree with that. But I don't support the government killing people. I don't believe it is their place. :shrug:

[ontheEdgeof17]

If you can call a clump of cells a baby, I guess you can call Julia Roberts a good actress.


sshhhh....They don't know their definitions.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

No, the chick in my avatar is Susan Powter, an insane yet extremely liberal person.

Oh ok..yea she does look like her...she is insane

about replying to your stuff... I myself am not someone is consumes themselves with politics 24/7..I try to stay up to date on stuff...i have to do research and stuff to correctly reply! I am not a political commentator...just a 20 yr old amateur who knows what I believe.

[amber]

just because we don't remember it..dosen't mean we didn't have any sort of "feeling" or emotion back then!

No, that's exactly what it means.

[dissention]

well thats where we get into religon again...The "tissue" looks like a child, so...where it exactly did we come from...were we not once that "blob of tissue"...just because we don't remember it..dosen't mean we didn't have any sort of "feeling" or emotion back then!

hey you know what they say "If it looks like a duck..."

I transferred one of my houseplants into a new pot last week and broke many of the roots in the process. A few days later, it died. Am I a murderer? I don't have roots or leaves or stems, so I don't know if it had any feeling or emotion. :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

If you can call a clump of cells a baby, I guess you can call Julia Roberts a good actress.Hawkeye was actually referring to women who give birth and then leave the babies for dead because they don't to deal with them.

And I still think Roberts was good in Mary Reilly. :D

[Brwn_eyes0511]

If you can call a clump of cells a baby, I guess you can call Julia Roberts a good actress.

Well you and I are nothing but a clump of cells now...just in larger volume! So...hmmm...however you view it!

[GateandGarden]

See Dissention, changing your avitar from that great Stevie one, came back to bite you in the ass :laugh:We tried to tell him! :laugh:

[dissention]

Oh ok..yea she does look like her...she is insane

about replying to your stuff... I myself am not someone is consumes themselves with politics 24/7..I try to stay up to date on stuff...i have to do research and stuff to correctly reply! I am not a political commentator...just a 20 yr old amateur who knows what I believe.

That's fine, dear, but don't confuse knowing what you believe with knowing the facts and the truth.

[amber]

Well you and I are nothing but a clump of cells now...just in larger volume! So...hmmm...however you view it!
so you must be a vegetarian, and you have never killed any clump of cells in your life?

[ontheEdgeof17]

And I still think Roberts was good in Mary Reilly. :D



That movie is terrible. Girl, get some taste. :lol: :laugh: :lol:

[GateandGarden]

I agree with ya 1000%...And remember I am an In-De-Pen-Dent, (C'mon, Say it with me y'all...In-De-Pen-Dent...Good, Now say it 10,000 times in a row tonight and maybe, Just maybe it will brainwash ya into joinin' us on the 'other'-other side :thumbsup: ), who has never (Or will) understand why most in this country seems more afraid of a gay couple getting married (Hey, If yer in love and ya found your soulmate that ya want to spend the rest of your life with in marriage, What effing right is it that the government should interfere??? Hey government idiots F.O.A.D. and let people get married no matter their sexual orientation, ok?) instead of some radical extremist parking a nuke in downtown Holly-weird...:thumbsup:

[Hawkeye]

I agree with that. But I don't support the government killing people. I don't believe it is their place. :shrug:

Every war since history began has been the goverment killing people. Now Most including myself don't support this currnet war, but there have been past wars worth supporting, like WWII and that was the goverment killing people.

[GateandGarden]

That movie is terrible. Girl, get some taste. :lol: :laugh: :lol:Well, it definitely wasn't one of my favorites or anything. I just thought it was...interesting. :shrug: :xoxo:

[estranged4life]

Amen sista! If my baby was to be born w/o a brain, with no chance of living somewhat of a normal life....I would have the option to abort it. Would I do it is another issue, but the option is still there.

I don't have a brain...Never had or will, Just a computer-chip (And a CPU) that was programmed to make sure I complete the mission I was sent back to this time to accomplish:

MORE BOOTLEGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brian "I am the T-2000 cyber-droid self-substaining asshole, sarcastic f**khead sent from the year 2666...Hosta-La-Vista dude!!!" j.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I transferred one of my houseplants into a new pot last week and broke many of the roots in the process. A few days later, it died. Am I a murderer? I don't have roots or leaves or stems, so I don't know if it had any feeling or emotion. :shrug:

Human being/plant...

hmmm?

[dissention]

Every war since history began has been the goverment killing people. Now Most including myself don't support this currnet war, but there have been past wars worth supporting, like WWII and that was the goverment killing people.

Surely you aren't equating WWII with capital punishment? :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

Every war since history began has been the goverment killing people. Now Most including myself don't support this currnet war, but there have been past wars worth supporting, like WWII and that was the goverment killing people.Some cases are self-defense, right? But if you want to get into war in a general sense, I am quite the hippie pacifist. :D

[GateandGarden]

Surely you aren't equating WWII with capital punishment? :shrug:What diss said. :nod:

[ontheEdgeof17]

I don't have a brain...Never had or will, Just a computer-chip (And a CPU) that was programmed to make sure I complete the mission I was sent back to this time to accomplish:

MORE BOOTLEGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brian "I am the T-2000 cyber-droid self-substaining asshole, sarcastic f**khead sent from the year 2666...Hosta-La-Vista dude!!!" j.


Finally. The last piece of the puzzle that is Brian J. :thumbsup:

[GateandGarden]

I don't have a brain...Never had or will, Just a computer-chip (And a CPU) that was programmed to make sure I complete the mission I was sent back to this time to accomplish:

MORE BOOTLEGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brian "I am the T-2000 cyber-droid self-substaining asshole, sarcastic f**khead sent from the year 2666...Hosta-La-Vista dude!!!" j.:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

so you must be a vegetarian, and you have never killed any clump of cells in your life?

no Im not a vegitartion...meat is good to eat :thumbsup:

there is a difference between human/animal in my religous belief

I was simply breaking it down to what was stated before about the baby being "a clump of cells"...

[amber]

Human being/plant...

hmmm?
what about human being/animal? are you the one who decides which life forms "count" as killing?

[Hawkeye]

as hard as it is to believe maybe, I have serious problems with war in general and how it could possibly still be going on. The biggest puzzler for me is the Civil War, how 650,000 americans all were killed by eachother. And how many things happenign today remain me of the antbellum era (YEAH dissention and the tower i used a big word) and although The Civil War is my favorite historical period the war still puzzles me.

[dissention]

What diss said. :nod:

Hillary, the likes of the great Franz Ferdinand coming out of my stereo can't even calm me down when it comes to this thread. This thread has to include some of the most disgusting and ignorant stuff ever posted on this board. If people don't know what they're talking about, why say a word? Go play a game, do a crossword puzzle, masturbate, clean your fridge, do something useful, man.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

what about human being/animal? are you the one who decides which life forms "count" as killing?

again getting into religous stuff...and I don't want to start that...cause that will really get people angry...

different strokes/diff. folks.
:)

[amber]

no Im not a vegitartion...meat is good to eat :thumbsup:

there is a difference between human/animal in my religous belief

I was simply breaking it down to what was stated before about the baby being "a clump of cells"...
Oh, so you think your god ranks the life he created on earth, right? so, humans are number one, etc, down the line. God made a list of his creations, did he, and ranked them accordingly? Is that what happened? Just trying to get a sense of "god's" process, here...

[estranged4life]

on abortion:

"Why is it with a human it is an abortion, But with a chicken it is an OMELET???"

Only 1 person on this planet should not be allowed to have a child:

Michael "My nose fell off" Jackson

[GateandGarden]

as hard as it is to believe maybe, I have serious problems with war in general and how it could possibly still be going on. The biggest puzzler for me is the Civil War, how 650,000 americans all were killed by eachother. And how many things happenign today remain me of the antbellum era (YEAH dissention and the tower i used a big word) and although The Civil War is my favorite historical period the war still puzzles me.I agree. It caused endless devastation, to say the least. :(

[dissention]

as hard as it is to believe maybe, I have serious problems with war in general and how it could possibly still be going on. The biggest puzzler for me is the Civil War, how 650,000 americans all were killed by eachother. And how many things happenign today remain me of the antbellum era (YEAH dissention and the tower i used a big word) and although The Civil War is my favorite historical period the war still puzzles me.

Prepare to be even more puzzled because at the rate this country is going, be prepared for a battle between the coasts and middle America. Civil war is eventual.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Oh, so you think your god ranks the life he created on earth, right? so, humans are number one, etc, down the line. God made a list of his creations, did he, and ranked them accordingly? Is that what happened?

essentially yes...In Christian belief...in the first book of Genesis

God granted superiority to humans over the earth...and specifically the plants and animals to eat.

[GateandGarden]

Hillary, the likes of the great Franz Ferdinand coming out of my stereo can't even calm me down when it comes to this thread. This thread has to include some of the most disgusting and ignorant stuff ever posted on this board. If people don't know what they're talking about, why say a word? Go play a game, do a crossword puzzle, masturbate, clean your fridge, do something useful, man.I feel ya, diss. :xoxo: Let me tell ya--I am so SICK of crying about people saying I can't get married! I just get angry nowadays. I often feel that I've used up all my tears. :distress:

[Hawkeye]

Hillary, the likes of the great Franz Ferdinand coming out of my stereo can't even calm me down when it comes to this thread. This thread has to include some of the most disgusting and ignorant stuff ever posted on this board. If people don't know what they're talking about, why say a word? Go play a game, do a crossword puzzle, masturbate, clean your fridge, do something useful, man.

you know what pisses me off, you;re I know everything attitude and anyone who doesn;t measure up to my level of knowledge is inferior and shouldn't be allowed to speak.

[ontheEdgeof17]

Prepare to be even more puzzled because at the rate this country is going, be prepared for a battle between the coasts and middle America. Civil war is eventual.


There are already secret missions into Iran. Let's get that war over with first. :rolleyes: :distress:

[GateandGarden]

essentially yes...In Christian belief...in the first book of Genesis

God granted superiority to humans over the earth...and specifically the plants and animals to eat.Most of the Christians I know do not take the Old Testament literally at all.

[amber]

essentially yes...In Christian belief...in the first book of Genesis

God granted superiority to humans over the earth...and specifically the plants and animals to eat.
that was retranslated from "dominion" to "responsibility for the care of" by the way.
And, now, i see. you're basic philosophy is..."It's ok to kill anything except undeveloped human babies."Got it! :thumbsup:
Welcome to the board, I hope you have a good time! :wavey:

[GateandGarden]

you know what pisses me off, you;re I know everything attitude and anyone who doesn;t measure up to my level of knowledge is inferior and shouldn't be allowed to speak.How can you expect him not to be that way? We're talking about people discriminating and infringing on other people's rights.

[Hawkeye]

Prepare to be even more puzzled because at the rate this country is going, be prepared for a battle between the coasts and middle America. Civil war is eventual.

Well that really wouldn't be a fair fight. Nebraska, Kansas and South Dakota will kick New York and California's asses :laugh:

[dissention]

I feel ya, diss. :xoxo: Let me tell ya--I am so SICK of crying about people saying I can't get married! I just get angry nowadays. I often feel that I've used up all my tears. :distress:

How is it the business of a straight person whether or not two gay people get married? It's a mystery. Where did all these gay people come from? Straight people...

If I want to have sex with a woman, I'll have sex with a woman. If I want to have sex with another man, I'll have sex with another man. If I want to marry a woman, I'll marry a woman. If I want to marry a man, I'll marry a man. It's no one's business but my own and everyone who disagrees with how I act in the bedroom or who I get married to can kiss my royal ass. :wavey:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

that was retranslated from "dominion" to "responsibility for the care of" by the way.
And, now, i see. you're basic philosophy is..."It's ok to kill anything except undeveloped human babies."Got it! :thumbsup:
Welcome to the board, I hope you have a good time! :wavey:

we have souls...there is a difference...God breathed his breath/life into US! We were created in his image.

again...religion...lets stray from this subject now ;) :D

[amber]

we have souls...there is a difference...God breathed his breath/life into US! We were created in his image.

again...religion...lets stray from this subject now ;) :D
Omigosh, you don't think everything has a soul! Is that right?!
:lol: :laugh: :lol:
sorry, i didn't realize the nature of what i was up against.
:lol:

[dissention]

you know what pisses me off, you;re I know everything attitude and anyone who doesn;t measure up to my level of knowledge is inferior and shouldn't be allowed to speak.

That's not it at all. It's the fact that people can say stuff like "A baby screams in agony and pain as it's brains are being sucked and drilled out of them" and try to pass it off to other people as fact. That's sick, man. You can say you agree with me or that you don't agree with me, but you know deep down it's true.

[ontheEdgeof17]

We were created in his image


Hey you said it...........so even homosexuals were created in his image.

I guess that means we still have rights taken away..... :rolleyes:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

How is it the business of a straight person whether or not two gay people get married? It's a mystery. Where did all these gay people come from? Straight people...

If I want to have sex with a woman, I'll have sex with a woman. If I want to have sex with another man, I'll have sex with another man. If I want to marry a woman, I'll marry a woman. If I want to marry a man, I'll marry a man. It's no one's business but my own and everyone who disagrees with how I act in the bedroom or who I get married to can kiss my royal ass. :wavey:

actually if you want to get married to another man...most states say NO...so you'll have to find one that says YES...or move to Canada! I love being part of a country that can set rules...that you HAVE to follow...or leave! FUN FUN FUN!

[gldstwmn]

Yes, and the liberal agenda would suite this country much better :laugh:

"eat, drink, and murder the unborn"...the slogan of every liberal!

Ah, but didn't you advocate bombing the New York Times building in your very first post on this thread?
TROLL ALERT!

[amber]

actually if you want to get married to another man...most states say NO...so you'll have to find one that says YES...or move to Canada! I love being part of a country that can set rules...that you HAVE to follow...or leave! FUN FUN FUN!
So, enforced bigotry and prejudice is quite the joy for you?
:lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh:
Is this a joke? does someone actually think like this? :lol:

[dissention]

actually if you want to get married to another man...most states say NO...so you'll have to find one that says YES...or move to Canada! I love being part of a country that can set rules...that you HAVE to follow...or leave! FUN FUN FUN!

Funny thing is that I don't have to leave at all. I just have to pick a man to marry and walk down to City Hall. ;)

[GateandGarden]

How is it the business of a straight person whether or not two gay people get married? It's a mystery. Where did all these gay people come from? Straight people...

If I want to have sex with a woman, I'll have sex with a woman. If I want to have sex with another man, I'll have sex with another man. If I want to marry a woman, I'll marry a woman. If I want to marry a man, I'll marry a man. It's no one's business but my own and everyone who disagrees with how I act in the bedroom or who I get married to can kiss my royal ass. :wavey:Amen my friend. :xoxo:

[ontheEdgeof17]

I love being part of a country that can set rules...that you HAVE to follow...or leave! FUN FUN FUN!


If your thougts and beliefs are suppose to be my rules, you are damn straight I'm leaving.

[GateandGarden]

actually if you want to get married to another man...most states say NO...so you'll have to find one that says YES...or move to Canada! I love being part of a country that can set rules...that you HAVE to follow...or leave! FUN FUN FUN!Wow! That is SO cruel and heartless! I can't believe you don't realize that! :eek:

[dissention]

Well that really wouldn't be a fair fight. Nebraska, Kansas and South Dakota will kick New York and California's asses :laugh:

Honey, the crew in South Boston could kick all of your asses. :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Hey you said it...........so even homosexuals were created in his image.

I guess that means we still have rights taken away..... :rolleyes:

Yes...homosexuals were created in God's image...and NO their basic rights as humans aren't taken away...

I actually think that people CAN be born with attractions for the same sex...the bible dosen't say anything about that! BUT the bible does say that that relationship between "man and man" (woman and woman) should not happen!

The Catholic chruch says...hey you might very well have feelings for the same sex...we are not you...who are we to know what you feel...we just know that to act on these feelings is a sin...but this is the cross that God has given you to carry in your life...and with prayer and a strong relationship gained with God you can live a life of holiness and celibacy!

so...homosexuality in itself IS NOT a sin...but to act upon it is...

IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S OPINION...please don't get angry anyone!

[Hawkeye]

That's not it at all. It's the fact that people can say stuff like "A baby screams in agony and pain as it's brains are being sucked and drilled out of them" and try to pass it off to other people as fact. That's sick, man. You can say you agree with me or that you don't agree with me, but you know deep down it's true.

OK, that was a dramitization by our new ledgie and some things coing out of their mouth has been crazy.. like hope the end times come soon, but still anyone who deosn't completely agree with you is inferior. It's the exact opposite of the religious fanatics and neither of the extremes are right.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Wow! That is SO cruel and heartless! I can't believe you don't realize that! :eek:

well...i thought it was funny....sorry...don't mean to sound heartless!

[dissention]

If your thougts and beliefs are suppose to be my rules, you are damn straight I'm leaving.

No, just drive up to my state, dear. We welcome everyone.

[Hawkeye]

Honey, the crew in South Boston could kick all of your asses. :laugh:

thats what the Patriots are telling the NFL the whole first half of this decade.

[gldstwmn]

No one country as a whole attacked us...a group of terrorist did...which are linked to more than one country...and you don't think that Iraq was one of the links in that chain then you are seriously misguided!

The bottom line is, we invaded Iraq because Saddam wanted to start trading oil in Euros as opposed to dollars.

[sunmaiden]

If your thougts and beliefs are suppose to be my rules, you are damn straight I'm leaving.

Not that I consider myself a great American or anything, but we shouldn't leave, we should stand up and change what we don't like. That is supposed to be the point of America, right? I always said I would leave, not sure if that will ever happen. I feel my rights as a human being are torn to shreds every day and I'm not even gay!

[GateandGarden]

Yes...homosexuals were created in God's image...and NO their basic rights as humans aren't taken away...

I actually think that people CAN be born with attractions for the same sex...the bible dosen't say anything about that! BUT the bible does say that that relationship between "man and man" (woman and woman) should not happen!

The Catholic chruch says...hey you might very well have feelings for the same sex...we are not you...who are we to know what you feel...we just know that to act on these feelings is a sin...but this is the cross that God has given you to carry in your life...and with prayer and a strong relationship gained with God you can live a life of holiness and celibacy!

so...homosexuality in itself IS NOT a sin...but to act upon it is...

IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S OPINION...please don't get angry anyone!We have Catholics on this board who disagree. There are numerous gay Christian organizations who disagree.

And I absolutely cannot believe you're still asking us not to be angry. Do you understand at all that I am saving myself for marriage?!?!?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

OK, that was a dramitization by our new ledgie and some things coing out of their mouth has been crazy.. like hope the end times come soon, but still anyone who deosn't completely agree with you is inferior. It's the exact opposite of the religious fanatics and neither of the extremes are right.

hey it may be a dramatization...but BASED on truth...baby gets brains sucked out! hmmm...in my book...with drama or without...still not so good!

and hey I was dead serious about "hope the end times come soon"...hey Im ready for the world to be over!

[amber]

Yes...homosexuals were created in God's image...and NO their basic rights as humans aren't taken away...

I actually think that people CAN be born with attractions for the same sex...the bible dosen't say anything about that! BUT the bible does say that that relationship between "man and man" (woman and woman) should not happen!

The Catholic chruch says...hey you might very well have feelings for the same sex...we are not you...who are we to know what you feel...we just know that to act on these feelings is a sin...but this is the cross that God has given you to carry in your life...and with prayer and a strong relationship gained with God you can live a life of holiness and celibacy!

so...homosexuality in itself IS NOT a sin...but to act upon it is...

IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S OPINION...please don't get angry anyone!
Um, you know most of the things the bible says were written by a man in a time where people thought they could be cured by cutting their head "to let the demons out" right? Oh, and they thought the sun and all the other planets revolved around the earth. Oh, and wait, they thought that people got sick because evil spirits were in their bodies....shall i go on?

[gldstwmn]

The child is alive...and have you ever witnessed an abortion...because I have had that unfortunate task to see one....the child is sucked out...which ever part they get to first...the suck it out bit by bit...and in a partial birth abortion...they puncture a hole in the head and suck the brain out!

Let me guess...you saw in in a film, right?

[dissention]

OK, that was a dramitization by our new ledgie and some things coing out of their mouth has been crazy.. like hope the end times come soon, but still anyone who deosn't completely agree with you is inferior. It's the exact opposite of the religious fanatics and neither of the extremes are right.

I think I've stated numerous times that I don't think they're inferior, I think they're ill-informed. My extreme is right, though, because I believe that all human beings should be free to live how they want to live wihtout hatred and oppression. If that makes me a fancy pants elitist, so be it. I could be called much worse.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

We have Catholics on this board who disagree. There are numerous gay Christian organizations who disagree.

And I absolutely cannot believe you're still asking us not to be angry. Do you understand at all that I am saving myself for marriage?!?!?

ok...you may have some "catholics" who disagree but they aren't catholics that follow under the pontificat of Rome...because The Church is SOLID on its beliefs...and true Catholics MUST follow that....

and yes I am aware of gay christian organizations...and hey..at least they have a relationship with God...I don't agree with their lifestyle...but at least they know God...and it is my firm belief that...by knowing God you WILL EVENTUALLY see HIS will!

and hey...im sorry...if I do offend you...Im no longer going to appologize for being an American and expressing my beliefs as you do...it seems that conservatives are always left feeling guilty for stating what we believe...but not the other way around...

[ontheEdgeof17]

Yes...homosexuals were created in God's image...and NO their basic rights as humans aren't taken away...

I actually think that people CAN be born with attractions for the same sex...the bible dosen't say anything about that! BUT the bible does say that that relationship between "man and man" (woman and woman) should not happen!

The Catholic chruch says...hey you might very well have feelings for the same sex...we are not you...who are we to know what you feel...we just know that to act on these feelings is a sin...but this is the cross that God has given you to carry in your life...and with prayer and a strong relationship gained with God you can live a life of holiness and celibacy!

so...homosexuality in itself IS NOT a sin...but to act upon it is...

IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH'S OPINION...please don't get angry anyone!


It also says not to sow two different seeds in the same field...that is a sin, too. WE ARE ALL GOING TO HELL.....We planted two different flowers in the same yard! :eek:

[amber]

I think I've stated numerous times that I don't think they're inferior, I think they're ill-informed. My extreme is right, though, because I believe that all human beings should be free to live how they want to live wihtout hatred and oppression. If that makes me a fancy pants elitist, so be it. I could be called much worse.
Why, how could you say that :lol: :laugh:
It's unthinkable!
:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:
People...free to live how they want without hatred and oppression?! why...I don't know what to think just now! :lol:

[GateandGarden]

ok...you may have some "catholics" who disagree but they aren't catholics that follow under the pontificat of Rome...because The Church is SOLID on its beliefs...and true Catholics MUST follow that....

and yes I am aware of gay christian organizations...and hey..at least they have a relationship with God...I don't agree with their lifestyle...but at least they know God...and it is my firm belief that...by knowing God you WILL EVENTUALLY see HIS will!Damn it it's not a lifestyle! Heterosexuality is not a lifestyle! And don't try to tell the Catholics on this board that they are not true Catholics. You believe there's a god--that's fine. I don't really believe there is one. That doesn't make you right and me wrong or me right and you wrong. Sadly, some cannot grasp that.

And you faked me out there. Since you quote my post, I actually thought you were going to respond to my comments about saving myself for marriage. Can you possibly imagine how frustrating that is when I believe that that is the right thing for me and the self-righteous are saying I can't get married and infringing upon my rights and beliefs?

[dissention]

ok...you may have some "catholics" who disagree but they aren't catholics that follow under the pontificat of Rome...because The Church is SOLID on its beliefs...and true Catholics MUST follow that....

and yes I am aware of gay christian organizations...and hey..at least they have a relationship with God...I don't agree with their lifestyle...but at least they know God...and it is my firm belief that...by knowing God you WILL EVENTUALLY see HIS will!

Would those same Catholics you speak of who follow under the pontificat of Rome also be those Catholics who still support a Church that systematically raped and physically abused young children for God knows how many years?

Before we start throwing around moral superiority, let's get it all out in the open, shall we?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

It also says not to sow two different seeds in the same field...that is a sin, too. WE ARE ALL GOING TO HELL.....We planted two different flowers in the same yard! :eek:

ok wow...that was a theologicaly ignorant statement...

geez where is dissention when you need him to point out peoples short comings! :confused:

[Hawkeye]

hey it may be a dramatization...but BASED on truth...baby gets brains sucked out! hmmm...in my book...with drama or without...still not so good!

and hey I was dead serious about "hope the end times come soon"...hey Im ready for the world to be over!

Well the freaking world better not end until Fleetwood Mac hangs it up. And I really don;t think it's nice to wish for the end of the world.

[estranged4life]

as hard as it is to believe maybe, I have serious problems with war in general and how it could possibly still be going on. The biggest puzzler for me is the Civil War, how 650,000 americans all were killed by eachother. And how many things happenign today remain me of the antbellum era (YEAH dissention and the tower i used a big word) and although The Civil War is my favorite historical period the war still puzzles me.

war doesnt care about anything except destruction, Destruction of life, Destruction of civility, Destruction of innocence...It doesnt discriminate, It just kills. How 650,000 killed each other boggles my mind even to this day.

Off topic:
Being that I am of Cherokee heritage, My ancestor's fought in the Confederacy against the Union for one thing, And one thing only (Cherokee's did not believe in slavery nor did they take slaves):

To regain the lands the Union stoled away. If the tribes who were forced from their lands to the "Indian Territory" (Now known as Oklahoma) helped the Confederacy, The Conferedracy would remember this by giving back the tribal lands the Union stoled. (Trust me, Oklahoma history is largely based on the outcome of the battle of Honey Springs (aka Rentiesville) which had repercussions when Pres.Andrew Johnson decided to payback "Those betraying redskins" by decimating the tribes involved.)

Like the song lyric says:

"What's so civil about war anyway?"-"Civil War" by Guns N' Roses

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Would those same Catholics you speak of who follow under the pontificat of Rome also be those Catholics who still support a Church that systematically raped and physically abused young children for God knows how many years?

Before we start throwing around moral superiority, let's get it all out in the open, shall we?

Ok low blow...and NO catholic or anyone in their right mind would support that sickness...i take offense to that!

[amber]

Would those same Catholics you speak of who follow under the pontificat of Rome also be those Catholics who still support a Church that systematically raped and physically abused young children for God knows how many years?

Before we start throwing around moral superiority, let's get it all out in the open, shall we?
ooo, don't forget how the Catholic Church funneled Nazi war Criminals out through Rome! Another particular high point among many...
"The inquisition, what a show, the inquisition, hey lets go!"

[ontheEdgeof17]

ok wow...that was a theologicaly ignorant statement...

geez where is dissention when you need him to point out peoples short comings! :confused:


A sin is a sin. Correct? There are many things the Bible says not to do and we do them anyway......Why should gay marriage be any different?

[sunmaiden]

Um, you know most of the things the bible says were written by a man in a time where people thought they could be cured by cutting their head "to let the demons out" right? Oh, and they thought the sun and all the other planets revolved around the earth. Oh, and wait, they thought that people got sick because evil spirits were in their bodies....shall i go on?


Well no matter what you guys say to eachother, no one is changing their minds....

"Talking is just masterbating without the mess."- Our Lady Peace "Happiness Is Not A Fish You Can Catch"

[amber]

Ok low blow...and NO catholic or anyone in their right mind would support that sickness...i take offense to that!
But yet you support an organization who has covered it up, and made it possible, for god knows how many years.
You disagree, yet you support them...see?

[gldstwmn]

The child is alive...and have you ever witnessed an abortion...because I have had that unfortunate task to see one....the child is sucked out...which ever part they get to first...the suck it out bit by bit...and in a partial birth abortion...they puncture a hole in the head and suck the brain out!

Um..no. The Patial Birth Abortion Bill defines it as:
any abortion in which the baby is delivered "past the [baby's] navel . . . outside the body of the mother," OR "in the case of head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother," BEFORE being killed. The complete official text of the bill being signed by President Bush, in a searchable format, is here:
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/partial-birth%20abortion%20Ban%20act%20final%20language.htm

[dissention]

Ok low blow...and NO catholic or anyone in their right mind would support that sickness...i take offense to that!

Just as I took great offense to the implication that a liberals motto is "Eat, drink, and kill unborn babies."

If you attend a Church, you automatically support an organization that helped abuse young children. That's simply a fact.

[SuzeQuze]

I have no problem with what Ann says...especially about invading their countries and converting them! In an interview if asked if she had any regrets after saying that...she simply replied..."Yes...I didn't say it loud enough"... :nod: And I am ALL for a poll tax!

Alot of Ann's quotes are taken out of context...if you would actually READ HER stuff...instead of off something as pathetic as Air America (btw...is that still on?) or some other liberal garbage place, you would actually read it in context!

Everything above is purely ignorant from my standpoint. Why on earth do you feel that you are so "right" that you should make the world Christian? Do you know a thing about Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism? These eastern religions are beautiful, divine doctrines followed by many. They speak of god differently than Christians but they are no less faithful. How dare you seek to push your beliefs on people on the other side of the world when you have no idea who they are or what their culture is about?

I can't believe I am wasting my time writing this. Liberal means open minded and generous, look it up. Conservative means following the status quo like a sheep without questioning IMO. If you can live with that, fine. You should post this crap over on a pro Coultergeist board if you want to win friends and cheers. The people who read these threads are not interested in this bullsh*t.

[GateandGarden]

Well the freaking world better not end until Fleetwood Mac hangs it up. And I really don;t think it's nice to wish for the end of the world.I agree on both accounts. :nod:

[amber]

Well no matter what you guys say to eachother, no one is changing their minds....

"Talking is just masterbating without the mess."- Our Lady Peace "Happiness Is Not A Fish You Can Catch"
Yes, so nobody should say anything, right?
I think people talking is what has gotten us to change our minds, slowly, over the years. :shrug:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Well the freaking world better not end until Fleetwood Mac hangs it up. And I really don;t think it's nice to wish for the end of the world.

LOL...I like that...I agree...I don't want it to end UNTIL CHRISSY COMES BACK TO FM! I live in a world where I KNOW that one day she will!!!!!!

Well...it depends on what you think will happen AFTER the world ends that makes it a nice statement :)

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Just as I took great offense to the implication that a liberals motto is "Eat, drink, and kill unborn babies."

If you attend a Church, you automatically support an organization that helped abuse young children. That's simply a fact.

in your scewed vision...yea i guess!

[dissention]

in your scewed vision...yea i guess!

Hardly, but you can try to explain it to me.

Like I said, before you start throwing around moral superiority, recognize the flaws within the very organization that you draw your morals and beliefs from.

[sunmaiden]

But yet you support an organization who has covered it up, and made it possible, for god knows how many years.
You disagree, yet you support them...see?


No Catholic or any person in their right mind would EVERR EVERR support that ****. It is not my job to judge those people, it is God's.


"The Road of life is rocky and you may stumble too, so why you look at me, someone else is judging you...Could You Be Loved?"- Bob Marley

[Hawkeye]

war doesnt care about anything except destruction, Destruction of life, Destruction of civility, Destruction of innocence...It doesnt discriminate, It just kills. How 650,000 killed each other boggles my mind even to this day.

Off topic:
Being that I am of Cherokee heritage, My ancestor's fought in the Confederacy against the Union for one thing, And one thing only (Cherokee's did not believe in slavery nor did they take slaves):

To regain the lands the Union stoled away. If the tribes who were forced from their lands to the "Indian Territory" (Now known as Oklahoma) helped the Confederacy, The Conferedracy would remember this by giving back the tribal lands the Union stoled. (Trust me, Oklahoma history is largely based on the outcome of the battle of Honey Springs (aka Rentiesville) which had repercussions when Pres.Andrew Johnson decided to payback "Those betraying redskins" by decimating the tribes involved.)

Like the song lyric says:

"What's so civil about war anyway?"-"Civil War" by Guns N' Roses

Well yeah, the confederacy were by no means the bad guys in that war. James Longstreet didn't even support slavery one bit, and after the war became a republican (they were the liberals then) the Confederates only fought to form their own country and while I'm glad the Union won and kept our country together, the Confederates were not the bad guys.

[gldstwmn]

I'm all for abortions with babies who will have horrible birth defects or if they'll kill the mother or if it was rape or incest. But just some bitch who got herself pregant and just doesn't feel like having a baby so I'll just kill it, is barbaric as Dissention once said about the deaht penalty.

You have a penis? Yes? STFU then. These are my ovaries and my business, thank you.

[amber]

in your scewed vision...yea i guess!
Ahem.
But yet you support an organization who has covered it up, and made it possible, for god knows how many years.
You disagree, yet you support them...see?
:wavey:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Everything above is purely ignorant from my standpoint. Why on earth do you feel that you are so "right" that you should make the world Christian? Do you know a thing about Islam, Hinduism or Buddhism? These eastern religions are beautiful, divine doctrines followed by many. They speak of god differently than Christians but they are no less faithful. How dare you seek to push your beliefs on people on the other side of the world when you have no idea who they are or what their culture is about?

I can't believe I am wasting my time writing this. Liberal means open minded and generous, look it up. Conservative means following the status quo like a sheep without questioning IMO. If you can live with that, fine. You should post this crap over on a pro Coultergeist board if you want to win friends and cheers. The people who read these threads are not interested in this bullsh*t.

hey come now...I can be a little sarcastic can't I! I myself actually do have respect for these other religions...its a pure proof that God exsists...different people of different cultures...trying to make something of "why we are hear"..."who made us"..."who is God"...at least they believe something...and I respect that...I DONT respect radical islamic terrorist whose "god" told them to drive a plane through the WTC!

[gldstwmn]

Until someone can prove that a bundle of tissues is actually a child, then it's not taking a child's life.

Yup. :nod:

[dissention]

You have a penis? Yes? STFU then. These are my ovaries and my business, thank you.

Thank you, dear. :wavey:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

guess Im the only conservative/republican here...i feel alone :distress:

LOL :)

[gldstwmn]

The President is blind to back allies and rural communities.

No he's not, darling. he got his girlfriend an abortion in the late 60's. He doesn't give a flying f*ck (what else is new?) and is pandering to his fundie base.

[dissention]

guess Im the only conservative/republican here...i feel alone :distress:

LOL :)

No, you're not. There's two others. We successfully converted Krista over the course of the last year, though.

[gldstwmn]

No, the chick in my avatar is Susan Powter, an insane yet extremely liberal person.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

well...i thought it was funny....sorry...don't mean to sound heartless!I still can't believe you don't see how heartless that was. Can you even attempt to put yourself in a gay person's shoes?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

A sin is a sin. Correct? There are many things the Bible says not to do and we do them anyway......Why should gay marriage be any different?

I just totally dissagree with that statement...thats like saying

Well murder is wrong..but so many people do it...lets go shoot and kill someone and rob them....**** why not....git 'er done!

:rolleyes:

[Hawkeye]

You have a penis? Yes? STFU then. These are my ovaries and my business, thank you.

hate to break it to you, but the woman didn't make the baby by herself, she had a little help from someone.

[estranged4life]

LOL...I like that...I agree...I don't want it to end UNTIL CHRISSY COMES BACK TO FM! I live in a world where I KNOW that one day she will!!!!!!


World War 3 ending our existence or a new Fleetwood Mac album with Christine McVie?

I say bye-bye world!!! :thumbsup:

[GateandGarden]

No, you're not. There's two others. We successfully converted Krista over the course of the last year, though.Oh, y'all are responsible for that? I was going to give her credit for deciding for herself, but...:laugh:

[dissention]

No he's not, darling. he got his girlfriend an abortion in the late 60's. He doesn't give a flying f*ck (what else is new?) and is pandering to his fundie base.

Just like he lies about his "finding religion" and serving in the Air Force.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

No, you're not. There's two others. We successfully converted Krista over the course of the last year, though.

then she wasn't a true conservative then! ;)

[sunmaiden]

hey come now...I can be a little sarcastic can't I! I myself actually do have respect for these other religions...its a pure proof that God exsists...different people of different cultures...trying to make something of "why we are hear"..."who made us"..."who is God"...at least they believe something...and I respect that...I DONT respect radical islamic terrorist whose "god" told them to drive a plane through the WTC!


I agree, I have respect for anybody who gives respect. And I am not seeing it here...not to sound like a bitch, but I don't want to judge anybody and I am being judged right now, as being a Catholic.

I am ALWAYS being judged for it like many of you are always being judged for being gay. Sometimes I feel it's the same damn thing. persecuting other people.

Peace

[SuzeQuze]

I transferred one of my houseplants into a new pot last week and broke many of the roots in the process. A few days later, it died. Am I a murderer? I don't have roots or leaves or stems, so I don't know if it had any feeling or emotion. :shrug:

You dirty KILLER! :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

World War 3 ending our existence or a new Fleetwood Mac album with Christine McVie?

I say bye-bye world!!! :thumbsup:

They NEED Chris! SYW went Gold...their last album with Chris "The Dance" went 5x plat.

hmmmm

[dissention]

Oh, y'all are responsible for that? I was going to give her credit for deciding for herself, but...:laugh:

Well, we helped her find the light. She did the hard work all by herself simply by seeing the error of her ways. :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I agree, I have respect for anybody who gives respect. And I am not seeing it here...not to sound like a bitch, but I don't want to judge anybody and I am being judged right now, as being a Catholic.

I am ALWAYS being judged for it like many of you are always being judged for being gay. Sometimes I feel it's the same damn thing. persecuting other people.

Peace


I do agree with you...alot of people judge me for being catholic...and not protestant! and catholics aren't REAL christians! and all that crap!

[dissention]

then she wasn't a true conservative then! ;)

You're right. She had a pulse. ;)

[ontheEdgeof17]

No he's not, darling. he got his girlfriend an abortion in the late 60's. He doesn't give a flying f*ck (what else is new?) and is pandering to his fundie base.


Thanks, hun :xoxo: I totally forgot about that.

[amber]

then she wasn't a true conservative then! ;)
Actually what happened was that she gained much education since then...

[GateandGarden]

I do agree with you...alot of people judge me for being catholic...and not protestant! and catholics aren't REAL christians! and all that crap!Hmmmmmmmm...I see a parallel there--like, 'homosexuals shouldn't be able to get married, only heterosexuals' :cool:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

You're right. She had a pulse. ;)

hey...that was a good one... :lol:

gotta hand it to ya!

[GypsySorcerer]

Well, we helped her find the light. She did the hard work all by herself simply by seeing the error of her ways. :laugh:

Hey! I thought my ears were burning. :blob1: :lol:

[GateandGarden]

You're right. She had a pulse. ;)Curtis, I could totally bring stethoscopes into this to ease my stress since you said that! :laugh: :lol: :nod:

[GateandGarden]

Hey! I thought my ears were burning. :blob1: :lol:Join us! :xoxo:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Hmmmmmmmm...I see a parallel there--like, 'homosexuals shouldn't be able to get married, only heterosexuals' :cool:

well not really...because my CATHOLIC BELIEFS...meaning WHAT I BELIEVE IN and millions of others too...says that marriage as an institution between a woman and a man...

I mean ****...I actually know some gay people...and not a one of them even want to get married! and if its that darn important....go to the FEW states that allow it or Canada...ain't know body stoppin' ya!

[gldstwmn]

Honey, the crew in South Boston could kick all of your asses. :laugh:

Yeah and middle America doesn't want to f*ck with New York. If they think that's a battle they can win, they've obviously never been there. :lol:

[ontheEdgeof17]

I just totally dissagree with that statement...thats like saying

Well murder is wrong..but so many people do it...lets go shoot and kill someone and rob them....**** why not....git 'er done!

:rolleyes:


The point is that people just pick things out that fit to them and put others to the wayside. Don't half-ass it.

[GypsySorcerer]

I feel so honored you're discussing my political beliefs. :)

Actually, when you dig below conservatives' delusional bull*****, it's pretty easy to see their atrocities. I'm an idiot for buying it as long as I did. :eek:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

The point is that people just pick things out that fit to them and put others to the wayside. Don't half-ass it.


I agree...but we as people are faulty and not perfect...no matter what are greatest efforts are...we always will fall flat on our faces...

[dissention]

Yeah and middle America doesn't want to f*ck with New York. If they think that's a battle they can win, they've obviously never been there. :lol:

:lol:

I got robbed my first summer in New York. I was walking out of a little grocery store and the asshole tried to steal one of my bags. I threw an orange at him and he ran off, but he still got my groceries. :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

well not really...because my CATHOLIC BELIEFS...meaning WHAT I BELIEVE IN and millions of others too...says that marriage as an institution between a woman and a man...Your religious beliefs should not be our law in this country.

I mean ****...I actually know some gay people...and not a one of them even want to get married! and if its that darn important....go to the FEW states that allow it or Canada...ain't know body stoppin' ya!Oh, I'm sure that would sit well with you if you had to do it. My parents and my brothers are here in Louisiana and I'm not moving away from them! Yes, I would like to be married here just like anyone else can do, thank you!

[estranged4life]

guess Im the only conservative/republican here...i feel alone :distress:

LOL :)

I am a registered Republican (Most here knew that already) but that's because my home state wont allow me to register as an Independent voter (Didnt even have an Independent on the Presidential ballot...) and I am too lazy to go to the local office and change my affiliation to Democrat.

But I am an Independent-minded-technically-still-a-rethug-oops-I-meant-Republican-who-votes-for-whoever-can-best-do-the-job-regardless-and-NEVER-straight-down-the-party-lines-because-I-have-a-moronic-thing-I-do-and-that-is-think-and-form-my-own-damn-opinions!!!!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I feel so honored you're discussing my political beliefs. :)

Actually, when you dig below conservatives' delusional bull*****, it's pretty easy to see their atrocities. I'm an idiot for buying it as long as I did. :eek:

no...but many would call you an idiot to buy into liberal garbage...they gotcha...and you let 'em...


btw...nice to meet ya...im new to ledge! ;)

[amber]

well not really...because my CATHOLIC BELIEFS...meaning WHAT I BELIEVE IN and millions of others too...says that marriage as an institution between a woman and a man...

I mean ****...I actually know some gay people...and not a one of them even want to get married! and if its that darn important....go to the FEW states that allow it or Canada...ain't know body stoppin' ya!
But Bush and other politicians are stopping them.
What if we told you to get your a** up to Canada to get married, because your love is wrong, wrong, wrong.
it's the same thing.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere"
MLK

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I am a registered Republican (Most here knew that already) but that's because my home state wont allow me to register as an Independent voter (Didnt even have an Independent on the Presidential ballot...) and I am too lazy to go to the local office and change my affiliation to Democrat.

But I am an Independent-minded-technically-still-a-rethug-oops-I-meant-Republican-who-votes-for-whoever-can-best-do-the-job-regardless-and-NEVER-straight-down-the-party-lines-because-I-have-a-moronic-thing-I-do-and-that-is-think-and-form-my-own-damn-opinions!!!!

oh well thats cool!

[GateandGarden]

But Bush and other politicians are stopping them.
What if we told you to get your a** up to Canada to get married, because your love is wrong, wrong, wrong.
it's the same thing.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere"
MLK:xoxo: :xoxo:

[dissention]

I feel so honored you're discussing my political beliefs. :)

Actually, when you dig below conservatives' delusional bull*****, it's pretty easy to see their atrocities. I'm an idiot for buying it as long as I did. :eek:

You make me proud. :laugh:

I told you they were truly evil!

[GypsySorcerer]

well not really...because my CATHOLIC BELIEFS...meaning WHAT I BELIEVE IN and millions of others too...says that marriage as an institution between a woman and a man...

I mean ****...I actually know some gay people...and not a one of them even want to get married! and if its that darn important....go to the FEW states that allow it or Canada...ain't know body stoppin' ya!

But your beliefs can't dictate the laws and Constitution of this country. :wavey: No one is advocating that churches must marry gay couples. (Although there are some who perform ceremonies for gay couples. )
It's about civil rights, not religious beliefs. :nod:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

But Bush and other politicians are stopping them.
What if we told you to get your a** up to Canada to get married, because your love is wrong, wrong, wrong.
it's the same thing.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere"
MLK

well...if i really wanted to do it...Id get my ass up and go then wouldn't I?

[gldstwmn]

hate to break it to you, but the woman didn't make the baby by herself, she had a little help from someone.

That's right. Have I got a deal for you. If you get a woman pregnant, let's hack your thingy off. I'm pretty sure they can fix it so you can still pee. Turnabout is fair play.

[dissention]

well...if i really wanted to do it...Id get my ass up and go then wouldn't I?

The point is that no one should have to. Don't you get that? :shrug:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

But your beliefs can't dictate the laws and Constitution of this country. :wavey: No one is advocating that churches must marry gay couples. (Although there are some who perform ceremonies for gay couples. )
It's about civil rights, not religious beliefs. :nod:

and nothing in the civil rights says anything about a RIGHT for two people of the same sex to be able to get married by law in a state.

[GateandGarden]

well...if i really wanted to do it...Id get my ass up and go then wouldn't I?Oh, saying that you would haul your ass up there is supposed to justify your hatred? Some people don't have the means, you know.

[GypsySorcerer]

You make me proud. :laugh:

I told you they were truly evil!


I try. :xoxo:


Their rape of the environment, their erosion of civil liberties, this illegal war, their oppression of the poor, the list goes on.......... :eek:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

The point is that no one should have to. Don't you get that? :shrug:

oh well...when most of americas voters disagree with that...so...

[gldstwmn]

Thanks, hun :xoxo: I totally forgot about that.

Happy to be of help! :wavey:

[amber]

well...if i really wanted to do it...Id get my ass up and go then wouldn't I?
Wow, you didn't get it. it's an injustice, to a fellow human being, who was created just like you were. An injustice to anyone is a threat to your justice. Don't you get that? Your justice.
For instance, what if you were molested by a Catholic priest? Since they don't care about the others who were molested, then, logically, they wouldn't care if you were. That's an analogy, an example.

[dissention]

and nothing in the civil rights says anything about a RIGHT for two people of the same sex to be able to get married by law in a state.

You should bone up on civil rights laws, then. Why in the hell do you think my state of Massachusetts allows gay marriage?

[GateandGarden]

and nothing in the civil rights says anything about a RIGHT for two people of the same sex to be able to get married by law in a state.Nothing in the civil rights what? The Civil Rights Act of 1964? What civil rights are we talking about? You made it sound like a specific document or something.

Regardless, it doesn't make it right that one sexual orientation is being favored.

[estranged4life]

Yeah and middle America doesn't want to f*ck with New York. If they think that's a battle they can win, they've obviously never been there. :lol:

Texas doesnt want to f**k with Oklahoma cause we'll kick their asses like we do every year in the annual "Roast Bevo/Hooked the Horns/Cooked the Horns" fest that originates in Dallas during October :thumbsup:

Besides, NYC like OKC (Alot of the firefighters who perished in 9/11 were here dring the Murrah disaster to help out and were amazed at how appreciative us "Okies" are!) so they wont mess with us, if they do we just have to tell 'em at LEAST we dont have the METS!!!!!!! :lol: :laugh: :nod:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I try. :xoxo:


Their rape of the environment, their erosion of civil liberties, this illegal war, their oppression of the poor, the list goes on.......... :eek:


and the SAME liberal cry heard round the world...blah blah blah!

[gldstwmn]

Granted, a man's sperm is necessary for procreation. However...The woman has to carry the child for nine months. The woman has to endure the pain of childbirth. The woman is generally responsible for the child's care in our society. For these reasons I believe abortion should be a woman's right and ultimately a woman's choice.

Please, keep in mind that all of this is coming from a male. ;)

One who has a fabulous avatar as well!

[ontheEdgeof17]

Happy to be of help! :wavey:


It's hard to remember when you try to ignore the ignorant. :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

You should bone up on civil rights laws, then. Why in the hell do you think my state of Massachusetts allows gay marriage?

because they wanted to be different

[GateandGarden]

and the SAME liberal cry heard round the world...blah blah blah!Yeah, and aren't all those things bad?

[dissention]

oh well...when most of americas voters disagree with that...so...

They do? Even when you count in the disenfranchised voters of America and the youth of America that will be voting eventually? You're insane if you believe that. Gay marriage is already a reality in my state and it's coming to a state near you eventually. Like you said similarly in this thread, learn to deal or leave.

[gldstwmn]

:lol:

I got robbed my first summer in New York. I was walking out of a little grocery store and the asshole tried to steal one of my bags. I threw an orange at him and he ran off, but he still got my groceries. :laugh:

Sorry honey but that's funny. :lol: :wavey:

[GypsySorcerer]

and the SAME liberal cry heard round the world...blah blah blah!

The same hateful rhetoric, blah, blah, blah..........

[GateandGarden]

because they wanted to be differentTry because someone realized that straight people aren't superior to gay people.

[SuzeQuze]

I just totally dissagree with that statement...thats like saying

Well murder is wrong..but so many people do it...lets go shoot and kill someone and rob them....**** why not....git 'er done!

:rolleyes:

No, it isn't. Having a loving relationship with someone is VERY different from murder!

[dissention]

because they wanted to be different

Oh my word. Do you know the facts about any of things we're discussing? Stop blowing smoke up my ass, dear, because my asshole can't take the heat any longer. It is a civil rights issue.

[heyjupiter678]

I'm under the influence of pain medication right now and probably shouldn't be posting, but I just wanted to say:

Diss, Hillary, Goldie, Curtis, Krista, Suze -- I love you guys. :xoxo:

Oh, and I forgot Amber. :wavey:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Yeah, and aren't all those things bad?

yes they are...but if anyone tried to tell you that the republican party or bush adminstartion CARED about those things...youd find someone to say NO...or say Not enough money is being spent! so why try....

[GateandGarden]

Oh my word. Do you know the facts about any of things we're discussing? Stop blowing smoke up my ass, dear, because my asshole can't take the heat any longer. It is a civil rights issue.:laugh: :lol: :nod: