This proves Bush doesnt care about the little guy

[gldstwmn]

oh well...when most of americas voters disagree with that...so...

Actually they don't. We've debunked that myth too.

[dissention]

and the SAME liberal cry heard round the world...blah blah blah!

What have the conservatives done to help the environment?
What have the conservatives done to help the poor?
What have the conservatives done to help civil liberties?

I'm all ears.

[GypsySorcerer]

They do? Even when you count in the disenfranchised voters of America and the youth of America that will be voting eventually? You're insane if you believe that. Gay marriage is already a reality in my state and it's coming to a state near you eventually. Like you said similarly in this thread, learn to deal or leave.

I predict IL will be one of the next. They recently passed anti-discrimination legislation.

[amber]

Repost:......
Wow, you didn't get it. it's an injustice, to a fellow human being, who was created just like you were. An injustice to anyone is a threat to your justice. Don't you get that? Your justice.
For instance, what if you were molested by a Catholic priest? Since they don't care about the others who were molested, then, logically, they wouldn't care if you were. That's an analogy, an example.

[GateandGarden]

yes they are...but if anyone tried to tell you that the republican party or bush adminstartion CARED about those things...youd find someone to say NO...or say Not enough money is being spent! so why try....Bush doesn't give a **** about my rights! His proposal of the FMA proved that!

[dissention]

Sorry honey but that's funny. :lol: :wavey:

My super laughed his ass off all summer over it. Always made it a point to ask if I had any oranges when he saw me. :lol:

[ontheEdgeof17]

I'm under the influence of pain medication right now and probably shouldn't be posting, but I just wanted to say:

Diss, Hillary, Goldie, Curtis, Krista, Suze -- I love you guys. :xoxo:


I hope you are feeling better, dear. I am worried. :o

[gldstwmn]

Texas doesnt want to f**k with Oklahoma cause we'll kick their asses like we do evry year in the annual "Roast Bevo/Hooked the Horns" fest that originates in Dallas during October :thumbsup:

Besides, NYC like OKC (Alot of the firefighters ho perished in 9/11 were here dring the Murrah disaster to help out and were amazed at how appreciative us "Okies" are!) so they wont mess with us, if they do we just have to tell 'em at LEAST we dont have the METS!!!!!!! :lol: :laugh: :nod:

Ha! :wavey: :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Try because someone realized that straight people aren't superior to gay people.

and no one said they were...its just a matter of...marriage is an institution between a WOMAN AND A MAN...always HAS BEEN!!!! see no one is left out...its not sexist...WOMAN...and MAN! get it!

[gldstwmn]

The same hateful rhetoric, blah, blah, blah..........

Go Krista. :thumbsup:

[dissention]

I predict IL will be one of the next. They recently passed anti-discrimination legislation.

:thumbsup:

New York has said that they will recognize gay marriages from MA, too. :D

[GateandGarden]

I'm under the influence of pain medication right now and probably shouldn't be posting, but I just wanted to say:

Diss, Hillary, Goldie, Curtis, Krista, Suze -- I love you guys. :xoxo:

Oh, and I forgot Amber. :wavey:Thank you Mikki! I love you too! :xoxo:

[amber]

and no one said they were...its just a matter of...marriage is an institution between a WOMAN AND A MAN...always HAS BEEN!!!! see no one is left out...its not sexist...WOMAN...and MAN! get it!
You're denying a whole set of human beings the same rights that other humans get by what you're saying. You're descriminating.

[SuzeQuze]

But Bush and other politicians are stopping them.
What if we told you to get your a** up to Canada to get married, because your love is wrong, wrong, wrong.
it's the same thing.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere"
MLK

Great MLK quote, Amber! :thumbsup:

[gldstwmn]

I'm under the influence of pain medication right now and probably shouldn't be posting, but I just wanted to say:

Diss, Hillary, Goldie, Curtis, Krista, Suze -- I love you guys. :xoxo:

Oh, and I forgot Amber. :wavey:

We love you more! :wavey:

[amber]

I'm under the influence of pain medication right now and probably shouldn't be posting, but I just wanted to say:

Diss, Hillary, Goldie, Curtis, Krista, Suze -- I love you guys. :xoxo:

Oh, and I forgot Amber. :wavey:
thank you dear. I hope you feel better. :distress: Take care o yourself!

[dissention]

I'm under the influence of pain medication right now and probably shouldn't be posting, but I just wanted to say:

Diss, Hillary, Goldie, Curtis, Krista, Suze -- I love you guys. :xoxo:

Oh, and I forgot Amber. :wavey:

:xoxo: Hope you feel better!!!!!!!

[gldstwmn]

and no one said they were...its just a matter of...marriage is an institution between a WOMAN AND A MAN...always HAS BEEN!!!! see no one is left out...its not sexist...WOMAN...and MAN! get it!

18 pages and still not one fact produced yet.

[estranged4life]

Try because someone realized that straight people aren't superior to gay people.

cause Freddie Mercury (For the record Freddie was Bi-sexual) could sing like an angel, I sing like an angel too...Who had his legs whacked off while gargling glass!

Thus proving yer statement above :thumbsup:

[GateandGarden]

and no one said they were...its just a matter of...marriage is an institution between a WOMAN AND A MAN...always HAS BEEN!!!! see no one is left out...its not sexist...WOMAN...and MAN! get it!You don't get it! That's saying that straight have the right to get married and gay people don't! Discrimination and hatred, plain and simple. Why is that so difficult to understand?

[dissention]

and no one said they were...its just a matter of...marriage is an institution between a WOMAN AND A MAN...always HAS BEEN!!!! see no one is left out...its not sexist...WOMAN...and MAN! get it!

For centuries, voting was an institution and a right only for men, too.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

You're denying a whole set of human beings the same rights that other humans get by what you're saying. Your descriminating.

well...boy scouts...is for boys...and girls scouts is for girls...but do we see people arguing about an institution as that being DESCRIMINATORY...

oh wait...yes we are...

darn liberals

[GypsySorcerer]

I'm under the influence of pain medication right now and probably shouldn't be posting, but I just wanted to say:

Diss, Hillary, Goldie, Curtis, Krista, Suze -- I love you guys. :xoxo:

Oh, and I forgot Amber. :wavey:

Back atcha! :xoxo:

[estranged4life]

I'm under the influence of pain medication right now and probably shouldn't be posting, but I just wanted to say:

Diss, Hillary, Goldie, Curtis, Krista, Suze -- I love you guys. :xoxo:

Oh, and I forgot Amber. :wavey:

for me???...Boo-frikkedy-hoo :thumbsup:

[GateandGarden]

well...boy scouts...is for boys...and girls scouts is for girls...but do we see people arguing about an institution as that being DESCRIMINATORY...

oh wait...yes we are...

darn liberalsThat's as preposterous as the plant analogy. (No offense, diss).

And you have never tried to respond to some of my comments. Can you even begin to put yourself in a gay person's shoes? Imagine you were gay and saving yourself for marriage. Changes things, doesn't it?

[ontheEdgeof17]

well...boy scouts...is for boys...and girls scouts is for girls...but do we see people arguing about an institution as that being DESCRIMINATORY...

oh wait...yes we are...

darn liberals


I was in girl scouts. :wavey:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

For centuries, voting was an institution and a right only for men, too.

well...go back to the ann coulter post about that one :shocked:

[GypsySorcerer]

For centuries, voting was an institution and a right only for men, too.

White, property-owning men. :wavey:

[amber]

well...boy scouts...is for boys...and girls scouts is for girls...but do we see people arguing about an institution as that being DESCRIMINATORY...

oh wait...yes we are...

darn liberals
that could be because they are separate, but not equal. Some girls want to do boyscout stuff, and some boys want to do girlscout stuff. Which they should be able to do.

[dissention]

well...boy scouts...is for boys...and girls scouts is for girls...but do we see people arguing about an institution as that being DESCRIMINATORY...

oh wait...yes we are...

darn liberals

Now you're equating marriage with the Boy and Girl Scouts of America? :eek:

[SuzeQuze]

and the SAME liberal cry heard round the world...blah blah blah!

Instead of tuning it out, try listening. It is not nonsense. And the poor aren't just opressed, they're almost completely ignored. We don't just talk to hear ourselves. One day you will know the truth and your heart will ache with that knowledge.

[Johnny Stew]

well...boy scouts...is for boys...and girls scouts is for girls...but do we see people arguing about an institution as that being DESCRIMINATORY...

oh wait...yes we are...

darn liberals

Yeah, what a shame that those pesky liberals keep trying to ruin things by making them open to EVERYONE, instead of just a select few.

I know I just HATE it when a club or institution isn't exclusive to only the people I'm comfortable associating with!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

That's as preposterous as the plant analogy. (No offense, diss).

really how so...both are institutions....marriage is an institution...and has been since biblical times.

[amber]

That's as preposterous as the plant analogy. (No offense, diss).

And you have never tried to respond to some of my comments. Can you even begin to put yourself in a gay person's shoes? Imagine you were gay and saving yourself for marriage. Changes things, doesn't it?
I gotta say, by Brown Eyes standards, his argument wasn't so ridiculous.

[dissention]

for me???...Boo-frikkedy-hoo :thumbsup:

Heehee. You're just as much a liberal, Brian. :laugh: :thumbsup:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Yeah, what a shame that those pesky liberals keep trying to ruin things by making them open to EVERYONE, instead of just a select few.

I know I just HATE it when a club or institution isn't exclusive to only the people I'm comfortable associating with!

well gee...wouldn't you think that something that says GIRL SCOUTS is just for girls...and visa versa


besides they are PRIVATE institutions...which have a RIGHT to pick and choose who the let in...like it or not thats the way it is!

[dissention]

That's as preposterous as the plant analogy. (No offense, diss).

It was meant to be preposterous, dear, that was my point. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Yeah, what a shame that those pesky liberals keep trying to ruin things by making them open to EVERYONE, instead of just a select few.

I know I just HATE it when a club or institution isn't exclusive to only the people I'm comfortable associating with!

Whooooooosh. Game. Set. Match. Johnny Stew!

[GypsySorcerer]

Instead of tuning it out, try listening. It is not nonsense. And the poor aren't just opressed, they're almost completely ignored. We don't just talk to hear ourselves. One day you will know the truth and your heart will ache with that knowledge.


Very true, Suze. And I can speak from experience.

[GateandGarden]

really how so...both are institutions....marriage is an institution...and has been since biblical times."Institution" is a very broad term. And you still have not addressed what I asked. Whatever.

[SuzeQuze]

I'm under the influence of pain medication right now and probably shouldn't be posting, but I just wanted to say:

Diss, Hillary, Goldie, Curtis, Krista, Suze -- I love you guys. :xoxo:

Oh, and I forgot Amber. :wavey:

Love you too Mikki :xoxo: :thumbsup: And all of the above mentioned and more!

[dissention]

besides they are PRIVATE institutions...which have a RIGHT to pick and choose who the let in...like it or not thats the way it is!

They derive most of their operating funds from the federal government. :wavey: Private they are not.

[GateandGarden]

It was meant to be preposterous, dear, that was my point. :laugh:Point taken. :laugh:

[Hawkeye]

White, property-owning men. :wavey:

who were under 6 foot 5 and over 5 foot 4 and were no more then 227 pounds.

[estranged4life]

Heehee. You're just as much a liberal, Brian. :laugh: :thumbsup:

I thought I was going to have to put on a song by a known LIBERAL Elton John named "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" cause I was so left out...Boo-frikkedy-hoo :lol: :nod: :thumbsup:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

"Institution" is a very broad term. And you still have not addressed what I asked. Whatever.

I have done forgot what you asked?!?

[amber]

"Institution" is a very broad term. And you still have not addressed what I asked. Whatever.
It's ok, she/he doesn't really answer me, either...
It's weird, I never actually meet people who think those things. It's ok, though.

[heyjupiter678]

for me???...Boo-frikkedy-hoo :thumbsup:
How could I forget you? Yes, Brian, you're on my love list, too.

Btw, the headbanging in your signature is mesmerizing. :nod:

[gldstwmn]

who were under 6 foot 5 and over 5 foot 4 and were no more then 227 pounds.

You still haven't responded to my proposal.

[GateandGarden]

I have done forgot what you asked?!?And you have never tried to respond to some of my comments. Can you even begin to put yourself in a gay person's shoes? Imagine you were gay and saving yourself for marriage. Changes things, doesn't it?

[estranged4life]

well gee...wouldn't you think that something that says GIRL SCOUTS is just for girls...and visa versa


besides they are PRIVATE institutions...which have a RIGHT to pick and choose who the let in...like it or not thats the way it is!

who is in the Girl Scouts, as long as they sell me my cookies once a year then I'm happy :nod:

[gldstwmn]

How could I forget you? Yes, Brian, you're on my love list, too.

Btw, the headbanging in your signature is mesmerizing. :nod:

That's Dimebag Darrell, I believe. Can we have the gun control discussion now?

[dissention]

You still haven't responded to my proposal.

I don't know any man who would exactly jump at the prospect of having their schlong sliced off, my love. Though they'd probably be the first to volunteer their women to be fixed. :nod:

[SuzeQuze]

and no one said they were...its just a matter of...marriage is an institution between a WOMAN AND A MAN...always HAS BEEN!!!! see no one is left out...its not sexist...WOMAN...and MAN! get it!

Yup, I see your narrow view point and I raise you an open mind. :D

[amber]

well gee...wouldn't you think that something that says GIRL SCOUTS is just for girls...and visa versa


besides they are PRIVATE institutions...which have a RIGHT to pick and choose who the let in...like it or not thats the way it is!
Again, though, they are separate but not equal. Regardless if they have a "tag" of who's supposed to be in them, people want to do different things. You can't herd people around like cattle, and say they can't do things, and only other humans can do things. It's just wrong.

[Hawkeye]

You still haven't responded to my proposal.

I pass :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

It's weird, I never actually meet people who think those things. It's ok, though.I've met people who think gay people should be killed and that HIV was invented by God just to kill them. Don't come to Louisiana. :eek:

[gldstwmn]

I pass :laugh:

I thought you might. :nod:

[dissention]

Yup, I see your narrow view point and I raise you an open mind. :D

:lol:

+10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ontheEdgeof17]

Can we have the gun control discussion now?


Yay! :blob2: :blob2:

[Hawkeye]

who is in the Girl Scouts, as long as they sell my cookies once a year I'm happy :nod:

I think GSC suck personally

[Brwn_eyes0511]

And you have never tried to respond to some of my comments. Can you even begin to put yourself in a gay person's shoes? Imagine you were gay and saving yourself for marriage. Changes things, doesn't it?

well i guess i would never have sex then...because I DONT BELIEVE IN GAY MARRIAGE...I mean thats really not hammering into your head...and if I were gay...I would still like to think I would find my way to catholicism...and feel called by God to a life of celibacy

[amber]

I've met people who think gay people should be killed and that HIV was invented by God just to kill them. :eek:
Sheeb. i remember that argument. "Hello, Before Science? Ignorance called, and it wants it's theory back!"

[GateandGarden]

I've met people who think gay people should be killed and that HIV was invented by God just to kill them. Don't come to Louisiana. :eek:Actually, do come to LA to see me, Amber. :)

[gldstwmn]

I don't know any man who would exactly jump at the prospect of having their schlong sliced off, my love. Though they'd probably be the first to volunteer their women to be fixed. :nod:

Just like that nice, new Senator from Oklamhoma. What's his name? Dr. Death Coburn?

[Hawkeye]

I thought you might. :nod:

Well what you proposed is a tad bit worse then what I imagine child birth is like.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Yay! :blob2: :blob2:

oh yea...2nd ammendment...says that WE have a right to bare arms...


If liberals were so extreme about the 2nd ammendment as they were the 1st...you would be able to by an ozzi legaly over at you local handy mart!

[SuzeQuze]

Very true, Suze. And I can speak from experience.

I'm still getting over the shock of learning that you are a recent convert! :)

[gldstwmn]

I think GSC suck personally

then you just haven't been eating the right kind. :rolleyes:

[ontheEdgeof17]

well i guess i would never have sex then...because I DONT BELIEVE IN GAY MARRIAGE...I mean thats really not hammering into your head...and if I were gay...I would still like to think I would find my way to catholicism...and feel called by God to a life of celibacy


I thought God would rid me of this gaydom, but he/she didn't because God created me this way.

[amber]

Actually, do come to LA to see me, Amber. :)
ok! Yay! course, really, you should come here. But i'll go. I'm just gonna repost real quick..
Sheeb. i remember that argument. "Hello, Before Science? Ignorance called, and it wants it's theory back!"

[GypsySorcerer]

oh yea...2nd ammendment...says that WE have a right to bare arms...


If liberals were so extreme about the 2nd ammendment as they were the 1st...you would be able to by an ozzi legaly over at you local handy mart!

"We" are not a well-organized militia.

[dissention]

well i guess i would never have sex then...

Oh please. I could be gay, have Mrs. White for a mother, be forced to recite "And Eve was weak" three times nightly, and I'd still have a sex drive. Everyone has one. To even masturbate would then be called giving into gay urges because you'd probably masturbate with visions of the same sex running thorugh your mind.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I've met people who think gay people should be killed and that HIV was invented by God just to kill them. Don't come to Louisiana. :eek:

Ok thats crazy...I don't believe that AT ALL

[GateandGarden]

well i guess i would never have sex then...because I DONT BELIEVE IN GAY MARRIAGE...I mean thats really not hammering into your head...and if I were gay...I would still like to think I would find my way to catholicism...and feel called by God to a life of celibacySad that you can't see that homosexuality and heterosexuality are equal.

And that liberal chick, GypsySorcerer, Krista? Is Catholic and for gay marriage.

Never have sex. I'm not a very sexual person at all, but even I think that's a shame and I don't believe you.

Well, I guess I can just say I DON'T BELIEVE IN STRAIGHT MARRIAGE. THE WORLD IS OVERPOPULATED AND MY RELIGION PROHIBITS IT. And that would be utterly ridiculous. :nod:

[SuzeQuze]

:lol:

+10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, dear. :xoxo:

[gldstwmn]

Well what you proposed is a tad bit worse then what I imagine child birth is like.

Well, I was awake. I'd at least ask them to anesthetize you. :wavey:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

"We" are not a well-organized militia.

talking about LIMITING RIGHTS...listen to you guys...it is my right to own a gun!

now you can go and try and get a new amendment made that says that homosexual marriage is legal...then you can have that right!

[GateandGarden]

To even masturbate would then be called giving into gay urges because you'd probably masturbate with visions of the same sex running thorugh your mind.Probably...:nod:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Sad that you can't see that homosexuality and heterosexuality are equal.

And that liberal chick, GypsySorcerer, Krista? Is Catholic and for gay marriage.

Never have sex. I'm not a very sexual person at all, but even I think that's a shame and I don't believe you.

Well, I guess I can just say I DON'T BELIEVE IN STRAIGHT MARRIAGE. THE WORLD IS OVERPOPULATED AND MY RELIGION PROHIBITS IT. And that would be utterly ridiculous. :nod:

Well she can call herself catholic until her face is blue...but the Catholic church is AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE...sorry...thats NOT going to change! ITS in the catacheism...lets go visit Rome...and ask JP2 himself!

[gldstwmn]

oh yea...2nd ammendment...says that WE have a right to bare arms...


If liberals were so extreme about the 2nd ammendment as they were the 1st...you would be able to by an ozzi legaly over at you local handy mart!

An "ozzi"? Like Osborne? Do tell...what are the first and second amendments? You have two minutes. It's twenty six after right now.

[dissention]

An "ozzi"? Like Osborne? Do tell...what are the first and second amendments? You have two minutes. It's twenty six after right now.

I think she meant Uzi. ;)

[Brwn_eyes0511]

An "ozzi"? Like Osborne? Do tell...what are the first and second amendments? You have two minutes. It's twenty six after right now.

Amendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed


who exactly are THE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Johnny Stew]

well i guess i would never have sex then...because I DONT BELIEVE IN GAY MARRIAGE...I mean thats really not hammering into your head...and if I were gay...I would still like to think I would find my way to catholicism...and feel called by God to a life of celibacy

Do you not see anything wrong with that line of thinking?
If someone is gay, they should just simply give up all hope of every finding romantic love, of ever knowing intimacy, of ever having a mate and children... they should just join the church and become a priest or nun.

That's like saying, "black people in the ghetto should give up on the hope of equal rights, fair hiring practices and affordable housing, and just devote themselves to being maids and butlers for rich white people."

It's OFFENSIVE, and it's disgusting.

[heyjupiter678]

An "ozzi"? Like Osborne?
:lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh:

[GypsySorcerer]

Well she can call herself catholic until her face is blue...but the Catholic church is AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE...sorry...thats NOT going to change! ITS in the catacheism...lets go visit Rome...and ask JP2 himself!

The Catholic Church has been wrong several times in the past.....remember the whole Earth is the center of the Universe thing?

Again, this is not a religious issue. It's a civil rights one.

[estranged4life]

That's Dimebag Darrell, I believe. Can we have the gun control discussion now?

yes, That is Dimebag banging away...Just my lil' tribute to his music/life (Believe it or not I also have an image of Stevie headbangin' too!)

I read a sad newspaper story earlier that had the most accurate account of the Dec.8 Alrosa Nightclub massacre in Columbus, And it was eerie to hear that the gunman still had 30 rounds left (Including 5 rounds in his Beretta) and if not for Officer Niggenmeyer more people would have died that night. Why did a person with a known mental illness, who was discharged from the military for this illness still had access to a weapon?

(The really sad thing is that the person who typed up and posted this story on another website was at that show and is someone I have traded music with...)

Now back to the thread at hand...

"Liberals-Do they really diet on those aborted babies?" :rolleyes:

[GateandGarden]

Do you not see anything wrong with that line of thinking?
If someone is gay, they should just simply give up all hope of every finding romantic love, of ever knowing intimacy, of ever having a mate and children... they should just join the church and become a priest or nun.

That's like saying, "black people in the ghetto should give up on the hope of equal rights, fair hiring practices and affordable housing, and just devote themselves to being maids and butlers for rich white people."

It's OFFENSIVE, and it's disgusting.Amen. :nod:

[dissention]

Do you not see anything wrong with that line of thinking?
If someone is gay, they should just simply give up all hope of every finding romantic love, of ever knowing intimacy, of ever having a mate and children... they should just join the church and become a priest or nun.

To be honest, I feel like going out and finding me a hot man to have sex with just out of pure spite for those who frown upon it. :lol:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Do you not see anything wrong with that line of thinking?
If someone is gay, they should just simply give up all hope of every finding romantic love, of ever knowing intimacy, of ever having a mate and children... they should just join the church and become a priest or nun.

That's like saying, "black people in the ghetto should give up on the hope of equal rights, fair hiring practices and affordable housing, and just devote themselves to being maids and butlers for rich white people."

It's OFFENSIVE, and it's disgusting.

well...I just know God's word through the Bible...I try my best to understand him and his truths...sorry if it is offensive to you...somehow over time...I think you will manage to move on!

[amber]

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed


who exactly are THE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just for sh*** and giggles, i'd like to point out that this ammendment was made because of the war against the British for freedom from them. i don't recall that we've ever had a serious need for it since. In fact, i would submit that it's caused more problems than anything else. I don't recall us ever having to defend our freedoms against a foreign nation with handguns since then, as a matter of fact.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

To be honest, I feel like going out and finding me a hot man to have sex with just out of pure spite for those who frown upon it. :lol:

hey...it wouldn't bother me! It dosen't really make me ill to my stomach either...I just don't agree with it...

****..go find an orgy of men to have sex with! I'll sit right here at my cpu and listen to Tusk 2nd disc bonus material (namely "Honey Hi" demo version with killer keyboards from Chris)!

[SuzeQuze]

To be honest, I feel like going out and finding me a hot man to have sex with just out of pure spite for those who frown upon it. :lol:

Eh hem, may I cut in? ;) :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Amendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed


Finally, a fact!

[amber]

To be honest, I feel like going out and finding me a hot man to have sex with just out of pure spite for those who frown upon it. :lol:
:lol: :laugh: :lol: :laugh:
Tell me about it! Me to!
oh, uh, er, wait, hot sex with a hot chick.

[GateandGarden]

..somehow over time...I think you will manage to move on!With the man of his dreams! 'Cause we all know that no one as stunning as Le Stew is going to be single forever! :xoxo: :)

[ontheEdgeof17]

well...I just know God's word through the Bible...I try my best to understand him and his truths...sorry if it is offensive to you...somehow over time...I think you will manage to move on!


...which there was a gay relationship

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Just for sh*** and giggles, i'd like to point out that this ammendment was made because of the war against the British for freedom from them. i don't recall that we've ever had a serious need for it since. In fact, i would submit that it's caused more problems than anything else. I don't recall us ever having to defend our freedoms against a foreign nation with handguns since then, as a matter of fact.


THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO BARE ARMS...sorry...I don't care under what circumstance ANY of the ammendments were made...they were created (and noted...not taken out or declared unconstitutional) for a reason!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

With the man of his dreams! 'Cause we all know that no one as stunning as Le Stew is going to be single forever! :xoxo: :)

lol..and thats cool....I don't hate anyone for being gay...I just don't believe in gay marriage...thats all!

[SuzeQuze]

well...I just know God's word through the Bible...I try my best to understand him and his truths...sorry if it is offensive to you...somehow over time...I think you will manage to move on!

It is your opinion of god's truths and not mine. We do not wish to have your moral beliefs thrust upon us. This nation was founded on religious freedom and a separation of church and state. I do not want the government in my bedroom, nor in that of my brothers and sisters. We all deserve the same rights. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."

[amber]

THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO BARE ARMS...sorry...I don't care under what circumstance ANY of the ammendments were made...they were created (and noted...not taken out or declared unconstitutional) for a reason!
So, by that logic, then you wouldn't agree with the gov't changing the laws about slavery, or discrimination. Basically the whole equal rights ammendment is not okay with you, because something was written before it, and it was then revised? The law is supposed to grow and change with society.

[estranged4life]

Just like that nice, new Senator from Oklamhoma. What's his name? Dr. Death Coburn?

ya mean Dr. Tom "Shhhh...I just sterilized ya while ya was under sedation without yer permission...Just dont tell anyone ok? Oh, Forgot to add ya wont be able to have abortions now" Coburn from Muskogee Oklahoma.

God, When I went home to Muskogee for Christmas I made sure to drive by "Coburn Optical" and show 'em my single digit saluting seal of dis-approval!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

It is your opinion of god's truths and not mine. We do not wish to have your moral beliefs thrust upon us. This nation was founded on religious freedom and a separation of church and state. I do not want the government in my bedroom, nor in that of my brothers and sisters. We all deserve the same rights. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."

trust me the government dosen't want to be in your bedroom...go and have sex with anyone you want to...WHO CARES...but to establish the covenant of marriage with the person of the same sex...sorry..it aint gonna happen!

[Hawkeye]

Hmmm, I don't believe we've ever actually done gun control around here. I have no idea what to do about guns. they protect us, yet they kill us. I think Chris Rock made the most sense about them. Make the bullets cost a fortune and then they only time some muther****ers be getting shot is for a good reason. No more inocent bystanders (just trying to be authentic)

[GateandGarden]

lol..and thats cool....I don't hate anyone for being gay...I just don't believe in gay marriage...thats all!Right! You can be happy with someone of the opposite sex; I just don't believe in straight marriage! Marriage is only for certain people! My own personal and potentially flawed interpretation of a single ancient book forbids it! :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

So, by that logic, then you wouldn't agree with the gov't changing the laws about slavery, or discrimination. Basically the whole equal rights ammendment is not okay with you, because something was written before it, and it was then revised? The law is supposed to grow and change with society.

I knew you were going to say that...thats why i added my little BLURB...

that ammendment was revised...and so noted!

no changes have been made about ammendment number 2...we have a right to bare arms...it states clearly...if someone breaks in to my house with the attention to harm me...id like to know i can fight back!

[SuzeQuze]

trust me the government dosen't want to be in your bedroom...go and have sex with anyone you want to...WHO CARES...but to establish the covenant of marriage with the person of the same sex...sorry..it aint gonna happen!

What does a "covenant" have to do with a legal certificate of marriage? And again, it is YOUR "covenant".

[Johnny Stew]

well...I just know God's word through the Bible...I try my best to understand him and his truths...sorry if it is offensive to you...somehow over time...I think you will manage to move on!

Can you honestly tell me that you follow EVERYTHING in the bible? (Which, I'd like to point out, was written second-hand by human males in a very sexist period of time.)

[ontheEdgeof17]

Can you honestly tell me that you follow EVERYTHING in the bible? (Which, I'd like to point out, was written second-hand by human males in a very sexist period of time.)

I tried to go there about 10 pages ago.........

[Brwn_eyes0511]

What does a "covenant" have to do with a legal certificate of marriage? And again, it is YOUR "covenant".

No its the covenant b/w man/woman/God

[estranged4life]

I thought God would rid me of this gaydom, but he/she didn't because God created me this way.

I thought God would rid me of being a sarcastic, nihilistic asshole...But alas he decided I must be worth a good joke or two :shrug:

[GateandGarden]

trust me the government dosen't want to be in your bedroom...go and have sex with anyone you want to...WHO CARES...but to establish the covenant of marriage with the person of the same sex...sorry..it aint gonna happen!The government was in people's bedrooms until the summer of 2003 when the anti-sodomy laws were struck down. And that's gays and straights. And as for the "ain't gonna happen"--it already is in some places and we already pointed that out! And some churches will perform gay marriages!

[dissention]

trust me the government dosen't want to be in your bedroom...

Of course they do. Why do you think they institute anti-sodomy laws? If I partake in oral or anal sex, I'm automatically breaking the law. :shrug:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I tried to go there about 10 pages ago.........

in essence...I try to...Im not perfect...but I try to live the best christian life I can...and the bible is the word of God that I try to follow by.

Now alot of Old Testement laws such as not being able to eat pig...have been done away with by Jesus...saying that its not so much what goes into the mouth but what comes out!

[GateandGarden]

Of course they do. Why do you think they institute anti-sodomy laws? If I partake in oral or anal sex, I'm automatically breaking the law. :shrug:Not anymore, though. :)

[amber]

No its the covenant b/w man/woman/God
man/woman/god?
men and women love people of their own gender. God made them. God is love. WTF?
do you honestly think god said that? did god make up the institution of marriage? Tell me more about what god wants. :rolleyes:
:laugh: :lol: :laugh:

[SuzeQuze]

No its the covenant b/w man/woman/God

Which, again, is your belief that you are trying to thrust upon us.

Jesus was a liberal!

[Johnny Stew]

I tried to go there about 10 pages ago.........

Oops... I missed some of the debate before I joined in. :o

Silly, homo... that's what I get for trying to voice an opinion. I should know my place! ;) :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

yes, That is Dimebag banging away...Just my lil' tribute to his music/life (Believe it or not I also have an image of Stevie headbangin' too!)

I read a sad newspaper story earlier that had the most accurate account of the Dec.8 Alrosa Nightclub massacre in Columbus, And it was eerie to hear that the gunman still had 30 rounds left (Including 5 rounds in his Beretta) and if not for Officer Niggenmeyer more people would have died that night. Why did a person with a known mental illness, who was discharged from the military for this illness still had access to a weapon?



Gee, my Independent friend, could it be because earlier this year that President Bush let the Brady Bill expire this year?

[dissention]

Not anymore, though. :)

Well, I'd still have fun either way. ;) :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

The government was in people's bedrooms until the summer of 2003 when the anti-sodomy laws were struck down. And that's gays and straights. And as for the "ain't gonna happen"--it already is in some places and we already pointed that out! And some churches will perform gay marriages!

yes...but again the majority of America has spoken...in ALL the states in the recent election that were asked if they wanted to legalize gay marriage...gues how it turned out...

[amber]

Not anymore, though. :)
*WHEW* :laugh: :lol: :laugh:

[ontheEdgeof17]

I thought God would rid me of being a sarcastic, nihilistic asshole...But alas he decided I must be worth a good joke or two :shrug:


I guess we were born to be dammed to hell. I hope it has The Ledge and CD burners or we will be screwed.

[GypsySorcerer]

in essence...I try to...Im not perfect...but I try to live the best christian life I can...and the bible is the word of God that I try to follow by.

Now alot of Old Testement laws such as not being able to eat pig...have been done away with by Jesus...saying that its not so much what goes into the mouth but what comes out!

And what did Jesus say about homosexuality? Nothing.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Which, again, is your belief that you are trying to thrust upon us.

Jesus was a liberal!

Im not trying to THRUST it upon you! GEESH! I promise you I will sleep well tonight even though you believe differently then I.

[gldstwmn]

THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO BARE ARMS...sorry...I don't care under what circumstance ANY of the ammendments were made...they were created (and noted...not taken out or declared unconstitutional) for a reason!

I'd rather have them bare their arms than bear them. :shocked:

[GateandGarden]

yes...but again the majority of America has spoken...in ALL the states in the recent election that were asked if they wanted to legalize gay marriage...gues how it turned out..."What's right is not always what's popular and what's popular is not always what's right."

[amber]

Oops... I missed some of the debate before I joined in. :o

Silly, homo... that's what I get for trying to voice an opinion. I should know my place! ;) :laugh:
It's ok, Stew, he/she usually doesn't answer if you say something logical and to the point anyways.

[Johnny Stew]

in essence...I try to...Im not perfect...but I try to live the best christian life I can...and the bible is the word of God that I try to follow by.

Now alot of Old Testement laws such as not being able to eat pig...have been done away with by Jesus...saying that its not so much what goes into the mouth but what comes out!

I follow the Ten Commandments, which, correct me if I'm wrong, say absolutely nothing about homosexuality.

I think if homosexuality had been as much of an abomination to God, as many people like to make it sound, then He'd have made that one of His commandments.

[SuzeQuze]

Im not trying to THRUST it upon you! GEESH! I promise you I will sleep well tonight even though you believe differently then I.

But it gets shaky when laws are passed that affect me and you support them. The discriminatory sort of laws that you are arguing for.

[gldstwmn]

trust me the government dosen't want to be in your bedroom...go and have sex with anyone you want to...

Unless you live in a state where sodomy happens to be illegal. Or prostitution. :rolleyes:
Man, we've got our work cut out with you.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

And what did Jesus say about homosexuality? Nothing.

He did show that by attending the wedding feast at canna that there is a sacred covenant and sanctity in marriage...and he didn't have to SAY anything about gay marriage...remember Jesus wasn't there to CONTRADICT...what was in the OT...just to verify its true meaning...Old Testament is by law...and New Testement is by grace...and one has to learn to discern between the two...

God didn't CHANGE between one testement and the next. It SAYS that man shall not be with man (also meaning woman to) or "know" man

[SuzeQuze]

I guess we were born to be dammed to hell. I hope it has The Ledge and CD burners or we will be screwed.

It's gonna be okay Curtis, we'll all be there, it'll be a blast! But wait, I don't believe in hell!

[estranged4life]

The government was in people's bedrooms until the summer of 2003


I wonder if our much beloved government was in our bedroom video taping...If so Deb & myself would like the tapes to finally prove I DO NOT STEAL ALL THE DAMNED BLANKETS!!!!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

The right thing to do is not always the popular opinion, my friend. ;)

well...good for us we have that little thing called voting now isn't it...

which if it had went the other way around...you would have been applauding Americans for their "right choice" instead you simply brush it to the side as "popular opinion"

[heyjupiter678]

yes...but again the majority of America has spoken...in ALL the states in the recent election that were asked if they wanted to legalize gay marriage...gues how it turned out...
"When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong. The minority are right." --Eugene V. Debs

[GateandGarden]

It's gonna be okay Curtis, we'll all be there, it'll be a blast! But wait, I don't believe in hell!:laugh: :xoxo:

[amber]

"When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong. The minority are right." --Eugene V. Debs
:xoxo: :xoxo: :xoxo: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[gldstwmn]

Now alot of Old Testement laws such as not being able to eat pig...have been done away with by Jesus...

Don't tell that to the Jews.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Unless you live in a state where sodomy happens to be illegal. Or prostitution. :rolleyes:
Man, we've got our work cut out with you.

see no you don't....because if you actually are even going to attempt to try and tell me the reasons why prostitution is OK..then...woah...im sorry

conservative for LIFE! and I don't want to continue this thread FOREVER...I want to get back to the mac board...and talk about stuff we all agree on!

[SuzeQuze]

well...good for us we have that little thing called voting now isn't it...

which if it had went the other way around...you would have been applauding Americans for their "right choice" instead you simply brush it to the side as "popular opinion"

People who voted for Bush did so for a myriad of reasons. Just because they voted for him does not mean that they support his religious views.

[GateandGarden]

"When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong. The minority are right." --Eugene V. DebsMikki, you rule. :xoxo:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Don't tell that to the Jews.

I know the jews don't believe in eating pig...and some christians choose not to as well for their own devotional purposes...and thats cool!

[gldstwmn]

I guess we were born to be dammed to hell. I hope it has The Ledge and CD burners or we will be screwed.

Hell will really suck then. :wavey:

[ontheEdgeof17]

God didn't CHANGE between one testement and the next. It SAYS that man shall not be with man (also meaning woman to) or "know" man

It also says that 'he should marry only a virgin'.

[Johnny Stew]

remember Jesus wasn't there to CONTRADICT...what was in the OT...just to verify its true meaning...

Not more than fifteen minutes ago, you told us that a lot of the Old Testament laws were done away with by Jesus.
"Now alot of Old Testement laws such as not being able to eat pig...have been done away with by Jesus...saying that its not so much what goes into the mouth but what comes out!"

Now you're saying he wasn't there to contradict the Old Testament, simply to verify it.

Which implies that Jesus not only nullified but contradicted an Old Testament law. :nod:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

People who voted for Bush did so for a myriad of reasons. Just because they voted for him does not mean that they support his religious views.

well if it drove them to insanity that the man was religous then they would have voted for John Kerry or that no name independent candidate (what was his name...?)...so obvioulsy it didn't concern them to much that the man had *shudder* morals and religous view points!

[gldstwmn]

Im not trying to THRUST it upon you! GEESH! I promise you I will sleep well tonight even though you believe differently then I.

I've no doubt.

[GypsySorcerer]

It also says that 'he should marry only a virgin'.

...And that it's really better not to get married at all. :wavey:

[estranged4life]

Gee, my Independent friend, could it be because earlier this year that President Bush let the Brady Bill expire this year?

Sounds like it to me.

[SuzeQuze]

"When great changes occur in history, when great principles are involved, as a rule the majority are wrong. The minority are right." --Eugene V. Debs

Nice quote, it's going to happen too. It may take a long time though :( But I'm willing to fight the good fight.

I thought of an analogy for this administration earlier today. They throw the life vests to the folks in the yachts who have plenty of them, and leave those struggling in the water to drown. I don't think this is god's will, but I don't speak for Him either.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Not more than fifteen minutes ago, you told us that a lot of the Old Testament laws were done away with by Jesus.
"Now alot of Old Testement laws such as not being able to eat pig...have been done away with by Jesus...saying that its not so much what goes into the mouth but what comes out!"

Now you're saying he wasn't there to contradict the Old Testament, simply to verify it.

Which implies that Jesus not only nullified but contradicted an Old Testament law. :nod:

I DIDNT SAY THAT...

WORDS IN MOUTH...don't put them there

I said Jesus came to clarify and help his people understand and grasp these laws that were handed to us...and reunite his people. he didn't DO AWAY with OT laws! WHERE DID I SAY THAT?

[amber]

Nice quote, it's going to happen too. It may take a long time though :( But I'm willing to fight the good fight.

I thought of an analogy for this administration earlier today. They throw the life vests to the folks in the yachts who have plenty of them, and leave those struggling in the water to drown. I don't think this is god's will, but I don't speak for Him either.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: good analogy.
didn't Jesus say something about how "we will be judged by how we treat the least of us"?

[GateandGarden]

well if it drove them to insanity that the man was religous then they would have voted for John Kerry or that no name independent candidate (what was his name...?)...so obvioulsy it didn't concern them to much that the man had *shudder* morals and religous view points!John Kerry also called himself religious.

[ontheEdgeof17]

...And that it's really better not to get married at all. :wavey:



God also said not to marry the divorced or widowed......



Who's left? :lol:

[Johnny Stew]

It also says that 'he should marry only a virgin'.

And we all know that EVERY good Christian girl remains a virgin until her marriage.

Hopefully she's also not making the mistake of working outside of the house once she is married, since they frown on that in the bible too.

[gldstwmn]

well...good for us we have that little thing called voting now isn't it...



We haven't had that since 1996.

[GypsySorcerer]

Not more than fifteen minutes ago, you told us that a lot of the Old Testament laws were done away with by Jesus.
"Now alot of Old Testement laws such as not being able to eat pig...have been done away with by Jesus...saying that its not so much what goes into the mouth but what comes out!"

Now you're saying he wasn't there to contradict the Old Testament, simply to verify it.

Which implies that Jesus not only nullified but contradicted an Old Testament law. :nod:

Bravo, Le Stew! :nod: :thumbsup:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

It also says that 'he should marry only a virgin'.

which in essence is true...we should try to save ouselves for marriage...God forbid anyone speak of morality in these times we live in!

[Johnny Stew]

I DIDNT SAY THAT...

WORDS IN MOUTH...don't put them there

I said Jesus came to clarify and help his people understand and grasp these laws that were handed to us...and reunite his people. he didn't DO AWAY with OT laws! WHERE DID I SAY THAT?

I believe I quoted you already: "Now alot of Old Testement laws such as not being able to eat pig...have been done away with by Jesus."

[GateandGarden]

which in essence is true...we should try to save ouselves for marriage...God forbid anyone speak of morality in these times we live in!I am trying to do just that, but you don't want to let me get married, remember?!?

[GypsySorcerer]

God also said not to marry the divorced or widowed......



Who's left? :lol:

According to Paul, who, by his own admission, was simply giving an "opinion." :nod:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

We haven't had that since 1996.

gee I wonder why...cause YOUR candidate won!

see thats the thing...if John Kerry would have won...then you wouldn't see this outlash from conservatives saying "It was rigged...we should have won." we would admitt defeat and say..."ok the loser won...we'll get over it."

[GypsySorcerer]

gee I wonder why...cause YOUR candidate won!

see thats the thing...if John Kerry would have won...then you wouldn't see this outlash from conservatives saying "It was rigged...we should have won." we would admitt defeat and say..."ok the loser won...we'll get over it."

Come on. You know better than that. If conservatives weren't poor losers, why did they Starr and Co. hound Clinton for years?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I am trying to do just that, but you don't want to let me get married, remember?!?

I don't believe in same sex marriage, remember?

It doesen't mean that I don't respect you or love you as a human being!

[gldstwmn]

see no you don't....because if you actually are even going to attempt to try and tell me the reasons why prostitution is OK..then...woah...im sorry

conservative for LIFE! and I don't want to continue this thread FOREVER...I want to get back to the mac board...and talk about stuff we all agree on!

You've yet to post one fact to back up anything you've said here this evening, aside from documenting the first and second amendments which are largely open to interpretation.
If you think prostitution is wrong, then please tell me why did Jesus consort with the like of Mary Magdelane? Or was she really, as some have specualted, his wife? :shocked:

[estranged4life]

I guess we were born to be dammed to hell. I hope it has The Ledge and CD burners or we will be screwed.

remember, I will be running that show down there :nod:

And we get nightly performances of Stevie & Lindsey too (Sorry Heaven...Y'all can have Kenny Rogers & Toby Keith in exchange for Stevie & Lindsey!) no Christine though...She is in "purgatory" :shrug:

[SuzeQuze]

gee I wonder why...cause YOUR candidate won!

see thats the thing...if John Kerry would have won...then you wouldn't see this outlash from conservatives saying "It was rigged...we should have won." we would admitt defeat and say..."ok the loser won...we'll get over it."

That's bull! Because when it happened in Washington, a Democrat won after a recount, you did whine about it asking for another recount.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

You've yet to post one fact to back up anything you've said here this evening, aside from documenting the first and second amendments which are largely open to interpretation.
If you think prostitution is wrong, then please tell me why did Jesus consort with the like of Mary Magdelane? Or was she really, as some have specualted, his wife? :shocked:

well the lady caught in adultery wan't neccesarily Mary of Magdala...its up to what you believe...it never says...but Jesus said that he would NOT judge her...and told her that she was forgiven...

BUT...

HE SAID..."GO AND SIN NO MORE"!

[gldstwmn]

I know the jews don't believe in eating pig...and some christians choose not to as well for their own devotional purposes...and thats cool!

No, my point was that the Jews don't believe in Jesus. :confused:

[ontheEdgeof17]

remember, I will be running that show down there :nod:

And we get nightly performances of Stevie & Lindsey too (Sorry Heaven...Y'all can have Kenny Rogers & Toby Keith in exchange for Stevie & Lindsey!) no Christine though...She is in "purgatory" :shrug:


I got dibs on front row.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

That's bull! Because when it happened in Washington, a Democrat won after a recount, you did whine about it asking for another recount.

I didn't...some may have...but not myself!

[GateandGarden]

I don't believe in same sex marriage, remember?

It doesen't mean that I don't respect you or love you as a human being!I still haven't figured out why this is so difficult for you. Let me do my thing again.

I don't believe that, as a straight person, you should be able to get married like everyone else, but that doesn't mean I don't love you. Please. Stop fooling yourself and admit that that's discrimination and hatred. :rolleyes:

[Hawkeye]

I don't want to continue this thread FOREVER...I want to get back to the mac board...and talk about stuff we all agree on!

you haven't been here very long have you :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

No, my point was that the Jews don't believe in Jesus. :confused:

exactly...well the believe in him in so much they acknowledge his exsetence but they don't believe that he was son of Yahweh

[SuzeQuze]

I got dibs on front row.

Ooh, it's gonna be soo fun!!

:blob: :blob: :blob:

[GateandGarden]

no Christine though...She is in "purgatory" :shrug:Why the lovely Christine? Let her join us with her beautiful voice!

[Johnny Stew]

gee I wonder why...cause YOUR candidate won!

see thats the thing...if John Kerry would have won...then you wouldn't see this outlash from conservatives saying "It was rigged...we should have won." we would admitt defeat and say..."ok the loser won...we'll get over it."

Yes, because we all know that that pragmatic, optimistic attitude was in COMPLETE abundance from the Republicans/Conservatives when Clinton was in office.

I was AMAAAAAZED with the class and magnanimity of the Limbaughs, the Gingrichs, the Savages, the Starrs, et al., during those eight years.
It was a sight to behold, and, really, something with which I shall always aspire.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

you haven't been here very long have you :laugh:

lol...well no...i guess even there we won't agree on everything! lol

[gldstwmn]

gee I wonder why...cause YOUR candidate won!

see thats the thing...if John Kerry would have won...then you wouldn't see this outlash from conservatives saying "It was rigged...we should have won." we would admitt defeat and say..."ok the loser won...we'll get over it."

Does Decmeber 12, 2000 ring a bell with you?

[amber]

Yes, because we all know that that pragmatic, optimistic attitude was in COMPLETE abundance from the Republicans/Conservatives when Clinton was in office.

I was AMAAAAAZED with the class and magnanimity of the Limbaughs, the Gingrichs, the Savages, the Starrs, et al., during those eight years.
It was a sight to behold, and, really, something with which I shall always aspire.
:laugh: :lol: :laugh: :lol:
Oh, you too?

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I still haven't figured out why this is so difficult for you. Let me do my thing again.

I don't believe that, as a straight person, you should be able to get married like everyone else, but that doesn't mean I don't love you. Please. Stop fooling yourself and admit that that's discrimination and hatred. :rolleyes:

nope im not...sorry... :thumbsup:

[Hawkeye]

lol...well no...i guess even there we won't agree on everything! lol.

It can be WORSE in the Fleetwood Mac department :laugh:

[amber]

Ooh, it's gonna be soo fun!!

:blob: :blob: :blob:
Free Drinks!!! :laugh: :lol: :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

That's bull! Because when it happened in Washington, a Democrat won after a recount, you did whine about it asking for another recount.

Whiney Dino Rossi! And the Washington State Supreme court upheld Gregoire's election.

[estranged4life]

I got dibs on front row.

Jonathon Todd was sent off to heaven...So no frikkin' fanclub ticket fiascos this time :rolleyes: :thumbsup:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

remember, I will be running that show down there :nod:

And we get nightly performances of Stevie & Lindsey too (Sorry Heaven...Y'all can have Kenny Rogers & Toby Keith in exchange for Stevie & Lindsey!) no Christine though...She is in "purgatory" :shrug:


Well thats ok...I have a feeling Ill be in purgatory for a while...so me and Chris can enter heaven together!

[amber]

Well thats ok...I have a feeling Ill be in purgatory for a while...so me and Chris can enter heaven together!
Chris is actually walking with the cool bisexual chick behind you, sorry...

[Brwn_eyes0511]

.

It can be WORSE in the Fleetwood Mac department :laugh:

lol...

you mean there are those who don't like my chrissy *shudder*

[GateandGarden]

nope im not...sorry... :thumbsup:You're blind and in denial. I've never actually said that to someone but if the shoe fits...

[ontheEdgeof17]

Chris is actually walking with the cool bisexual chick behind you, sorry...


Would that be you or me? :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Chris is actually walking with the cool bisexual chick behind you, sorry...


well we can all three walk together then :nod:

[gldstwmn]

well the lady caught in adultery wan't neccesarily Mary of Magdala...its up to what you believe...it never says...but Jesus said that he would NOT judge her...and told her that she was forgiven...

BUT...

HE SAID..."GO AND SIN NO MORE"!

Oh, christ. :rolleyes:

[GateandGarden]

Chris is actually walking with the cool bisexual chick behind you, sorry...:thumbsup: :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

You're blind and in denial. I've never actually said that to someone but if the shoe fits...

well...call me blind. :shrug:

[gldstwmn]

I didn't...some may have...but not myself!

Do you take responsibility for anything, "conservative for life"?

[Hawkeye]

lol...

you mean there are those who don't like my chrissy *shudder*

She's usually safe. But Some Stevie vs. Lindsey arguments can put these conservative Vs. Liberal arguments to shame :lol: :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Oh, christ. :rolleyes:

exactly! ;)

[estranged4life]

Why the lovely Christine? Let her join us with her beautiful voice!

we'll work something off for Ms.Chris...

But John is a difficult problem, Saying something about "no ice in hell, thus no penguins in hell, thus no Mr.McVie"...Damn musicians and their contract riders :nod:

[amber]

well we can all three walk together then :nod:
um... 'kay.
But the bi chick is actually married to this other chick, and, well, it could be awkward...Chris is friends with them both... :laugh:

[GateandGarden]

well...call me blind. :shrug:At least you're comfortable with it. If not, then you might have to *gasp* become more open-minded!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

She's usually safe. But Some Stevie vs. Lindsey arguments can put these conservative Vs. Liberal arguments to shame :lol: :laugh:

oh yea...i could have figured that...I love them both...but I have to say stevie dose it for me just a little bit more!

[GypsySorcerer]

um... 'kay.
But the bi chick is actually married to this other chick, and, well, it could be awkward...Chris is friends with them both... :laugh:


:blob2: :laugh:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

um... 'kay.
But the bi chick is actually married to this other chick, and, well, it could be awkward...Chris is friends with them both... :laugh:

thats ok then all 4 of us will walk together then...

who am I to say who is going to heaven..Im not God! All can be forgiven!

[gldstwmn]

You're blind and in denial. I've never actually said that to someone but if the shoe fits...

There's really nothing else to say... :shrug: I hope at least you feel better, not that you have anything to feel bad about.

[Hawkeye]

as in Chit Chat, I always tred the middle ground.

[amber]

At least you're comfortable with it. If not, then you might have to *gasp* become more open-minded!
:lol: :laugh: :thumbsup:
The *gasp* really nailed it!
Omigod, on boston legal right now they're having a case of teaching creationism in school in Boston. Someone just said "Boston is a Blue state, so blah, blah, forget it."
:thumbsup:

[Johnny Stew]

She's usually safe. But Some Stevie vs. Lindsey arguments can put these conservative Vs. Liberal arguments to shame :lol: :laugh:

That's because we have our priorities straight around here, and we know that Lindsey and Stevie are way more important than any yahoo politician who's deluded into believing he's "doing God's work," as he sends thousands of young men and women off to their deaths, and lies to entire countries when it suits his needs. ;)

[amber]

thats ok then all 4 of us will walk together then...

who am I to say who is going to heaven..Im not God! All can be forgiven!
Well, then, who are you to say who can't get married?! Oh, but in that case, you can speak for God, i suppose... :wavey:

[estranged4life]

But Some Stevie vs. Lindsey arguments can put these conservative Vs. Liberal arguments to shame :lol: :laugh:

that's true...Those debates are vicious & cutt-throat!!!

Btw, John McVie rules Stevie/Lindsey!!!! :rolleyes:

[Brwn_eyes0511]

At least you're comfortable with it. If not, then you might have to *gasp* become more open-minded!

Well see thats what I don't get...just because I have a set of beliefs that I follow and believe...why do I have to bend that to become "open-minded" to make you happy?

[GateandGarden]

There's really nothing else to say... :shrug: I hope at least you feel better, not that you have anything to feel bad about.You're right. Nothing left to say. And I do feel better. And y'all always help me feel better about rampant ignorance. :xoxo: Well, "I'm on my way" now, as Chris would say, since it is quite late. Endless thanks to all my straight and gay allies! :wavey: Y'all are very much appreciated. You give this girl some hope for a bright future.

[amber]

You're right. Nothing left to say. And I do feel better. And y'all always help me feel better about rampant ignorance. :xoxo: Well, "I'm on my way" now, as Chris would say, since it is quite late. Endless thanks to all my straight and gay allies! :wavey: Y'all are very much appreciated. You give this girl some hope for a bright future.

Much love, Hill. have a good night. And you will have a bright future.
:xoxo: :xoxo:
(dang, it's only 10:00 here!)

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Well, then, who are you to say who can't get married?! Oh, but in that case, you can speak for God, i suppose... :wavey:

well no...because God has already spoken on that subject...(if you really want to read scripture...ill give you books and verses...but you probably don't care so I don't quote)

but no matter what sins are committed...each will be judged in the end...and that is God's job...not mine!

[GypsySorcerer]

You're right. Nothing left to say. And I do feel better. And y'all always help me feel better about rampant ignorance. :xoxo: Well, "I'm on my way" now, as Chris would say, since it is quite late. Endless thanks to all my straight and gay allies! :wavey: Y'all are very much appreciated. You give this girl some hope for a bright future.


:wavey: (((hugs)))

[Brwn_eyes0511]

You're right. Nothing left to say. And I do feel better. And y'all always help me feel better about rampant ignorance. :xoxo: Well, "I'm on my way" now, as Chris would say, since it is quite late. Endless thanks to all my straight and gay allies! :wavey: Y'all are very much appreciated. You give this girl some hope for a bright future.


first of all...no one said I was a girl...come on now...but how were you supposed to know...I could have been a guy ;-)

But...thanks for the chat...and I really don't HATE you. But Im still "conservative for life"

[GateandGarden]

Well see thats what I don't get...just because I have a set of beliefs that I follow and believe...why do I have to bend that to become "open-minded" to make you happy?Okay, one more. The answer was given by Amber via Martin Luther King, Jr. already. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." The fact that I don't have my rights is a threat to you, but you don't see that. You are not even really being asked to bend because no church will be forced to perform gay marriage ceremonies and marriage is a civil institution, not a religious one. So, all of that being pointed out, I should not be the only one who is made to be happy when gay marriage is legalized everywhere.

[GateandGarden]

first of all...no one said I was a girl...come on now...but how were you supposed to know...I could have been a guy ;-)

But...thanks for the chat...and I really don't HATE you. But Im still "conservative for life"I didn't assume you were female. I meant myself; they give me hope for a brighter future. And let's not get into the hatred again. I know you hate me.

[amber]

well no...because God has already spoken on that subject...(if you really want to read scripture...ill give you books and verses...but you probably don't care so I don't quote)

but no matter what sins are committed...each will be judged in the end...and that is God's job...not mine!
Oh, I forgot the part where God dictated his Memo to some people. Yeah. yeah. I would read it, but there's a problem....Some guy wrote it, God didn't sit down with a big, Godly pen. :shrug: It's the interpretation of "God", by some ancient people. I will never believe that if there is a god, he/she would say such things. The Great Spirit in my land would never create something, then advocate descriminating against it. :wavey:

[Johnny Stew]

Well see thats what I don't get...just because I have a set of beliefs that I follow and believe...why do I have to bend that to become "open-minded" to make you happy?

Everyone SHOULD believe in something, in my opinion. I feel a belief in a being higher than ourselves, inspires us to continue working towards being better people.

BUT... when God/Jesus/The Bible is used as an excuse for discriminatory and prejudicial thoughts and opinions, that's simply wrong.

Anyone who paid attention, should know that God is about UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
HE would never condone treating people as if they're second-class citizens, and HE would most certainly never condone using His name to excuse exclusionary behaviour.

If people feel they're "doing God's work," by preventing gays from having equal rights in employment, housing and spousal benefits, then I have a feeling they're going to be in for a terribly rude awakening when they go knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's door.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I was not referring to the results of the 2004 election. I was referring to the fact that, sadly, many people in America are against gay marriage. I am sorry if the way that I communicated that in my previous post was confusing and am sorrier if I came across as smug or haughty. Just because the majority of America believes that gay marriage should not be allowed does not mean that gay marriage should be banned; that is my opinion.

I love people who also just happen to be gay, and I want only the best for those people. I want, one day, to receive invitations in the mail to attend gay couples' legally recognized marriage ceremonies. Until that day comes, I will speak out against the injustice that is being committed against gays. It is nothing personal, brwn_eyes0511. I feel the need to defend the rights of other (in this case, gay) human beings.

Not one single human being should be denied the right to be legally married to the person they love. Gay couples need to be protected under the same laws as heterosexual married couples are. As of right now, most are not allowed to marry. This causes problems for gay couples.

As for God not wanting people to have sex with others of the same gender? As for God not wanting people of the same sex to love each other? As for God not wanting two people of the same sex to marry each other? This being a Fleetwood Mac message board, I will leave you with a quote from Stevie Nicks: "We all believe in people.../That we think believe in God/Somewhere in the night.../Someone feels the pain/The ones who walk away/Try to love again..."

Very well said...and you didn't come of as rude and I hope I didn't...

I just hate being alone on this (no conservatives here to back me up) and I know its hard to believe but I just am trying to believe what I believe...and Im sorry that that offends some people....but we have a right to express are beliefs and opinions...which is what makes us Americans!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Everyone SHOULD believe in something, in my opinion. I feel a belief in a being higher than ourselves, inspires us to continue working towards being better people.

BUT... when God/Jesus/The Bible is used as an excuse for discriminatory and prejudicial thoughts and opinions, that's simply wrong.

Anyone who paid attention, should know that God is about UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
HE would never condone treating people as if they're second-class citizens, and HE would most certainly never condone using His name to excuse exclusionary behaviour.

If people feel they're "doing God's work," by preventing gays from having equal rights in employment, housing and spousal benefits, then I have a feeling they're going to be in for a terribly rude awakening when they go knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's door.

God IS about LOVE...he is LOVE PERIOD!!! And I am not trying to use something to be hateful! Im sorry if it comes off that way.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Oh, I forgot the part where God dictated his Memo to some people. Yeah. yeah. I would read it, but there's a problem....Some guy wrote it, God didn't sit down with a big, Godly pen. :shrug: It's the interpretation of "God", by some ancient people. I will never believe that if there is a god, he/she would say such things. The Great Spirit in my land would never create something, then advocate descriminating against it. :wavey:

Well you have to believe that the words were devinely inspired..which gets us back on the whole "religion" subject again!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

I didn't assume you were female. I meant myself; they give me hope for a brighter future. And let's not get into the hatred again. I know you hate me.

NO I DON"T...come on now...out of ANYTHING that anyone can do or say about me tonight...nothing will hurt worse then to know that someone has left this discussion thinking that I hate them!

PLEASE DON'T DO THAT! I love everyone and try my hardest to do so.

[amber]

God IS about LOVE...he is LOVE PERIOD!!! And I am not trying to use something to be hateful! Im sorry if it comes off that way.
Love is about not judging, as well. God is not about rules. God doesn't think some humans (and dare i say it, other living beings) should have certain rights and others shouldn't. You seem to have a good heart, but it's hard for us to understand, because you support things that are prejudicial and unfair to a part of the population. And even if you, yourself, didn't have those prejudices, you support institutions and people that do have those prejudices, and those people work towards removing rights from certain people. Not to bring up a distastful analogy, but it's like being in Hitler's army, then saying you don't reallythink the Aryan race is superior, and all others should go to death camps. :shrug:

[Johnny Stew]

God IS about LOVE...he is LOVE PERIOD!!! And I am not trying to use something to be hateful! Im sorry if it comes off that way.

Hey, it's no sweat off my back either way. But next time the thought comes into your head that gays are somehow beneath others and are undeserving of the various rights afforded to heterosexuals, just do me (and, more importantly, yourself) a favor, and think about that 17 year old kid alone in his room somewhere in Alabama, laying in his bed and staring at the ceiling, wondering why God and everyone around him, hates him so much just for being who he was born to be.

And think about him as he wishes he could have the happiness and fulfillment that seems to only be available to "the lucky ones" in this life, and wonders if his life is even worth living, or if he's doomed to always being something reviled.

Think about him, and the many gays and lesbians who never make it past their teens, because the only future they can see for themselves, is one filled with hatred, discrimination, loneliness and pain.

Their blood is on all of our hands.

[amber]

Their blood is on all of our hands.
:nod: :nod:
My point exactly.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Love is about not judging, as well. God is not about rules. God doesn't think some humans (and dare i say it, other living beings) should have certain rights and others shouldn't. You seem to have a good heart, but it's hard for us to understand, because you support things that are prejudicial and unfair to a part of the population. And even if you, yourself, didn't have those prejudices, you support institutions and people that do have those prejudices, and those people work towards removing rights from certain people. Not to bring up a distastful analogy, but it's like being in Hitler's army, then saying you don't reallythink the Aryan race is superior, and all others should go to death camps. :shrug:

again im sorry if it comes off that way...but I just have my belifs and Im sorry that they offend some people! but oh well...I hope no one hates me...because I hate no one...I try to be a beacon for all...as all christians are called to be...and I try so hard not to be judgmental...but I still believe what I believe...so that said

I apologize for anyone who may have been personally hurt!

[Brwn_eyes0511]

Hey, it's no sweat off my back either way. But next time the thought comes into your head that gays are somehow beneath others and are undeserving of the various rights afforded to heterosexuals, just do me (and, more importantly, yourself) a favor, and think about that 17 year old kid alone in his room somewhere in Alabama, laying in his bed and staring at the ceiling, wondering why God and everyone around him, hates him so much just for being who he was born to be.

And think about him as he wishes he could have the happiness and fulfillment that seems to only be available to "the lucky ones" in this life, and wonders if his life is even worth living, or if he's doomed to always being something reviled.

Think about him, and the many gays and lesbians who never make it past their teens, because the only future they can see for themselves, is one filled with hatred, discrimination, loneliness and pain.

Their blood is on all of our hands.

But thats the thing...I have said over and over (hey christine pun..lol) that I don't think that ANYONE is beneath ANYONE...we are all equal! PERIOD.

[Brwn_eyes0511]

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."--Voltaire
:)

exactly. ;)

[amber]

again im sorry if it comes off that way...but I just have my belifs and Im sorry that they offend some people! but oh well...I hope no one hates me...because I hate no one...I try to be a beacon for all...as all christians are called to be...and I try so hard not to be judgmental...but I still believe what I believe...so that said

I apologize for anyone who may have been personally hurt!
Well, obviously i can't question your right to believe what you believe, but your beliefs and votes hurt other people...people who believe what they believe, and live like they live, and don't think the gov't should have any say over their basic human rights that are afforded to all other Americans. Therein lies the quandry....

[Johnny Stew]

But thats the thing...I have said over and over (hey christine pun..lol) that I don't think that ANYONE is beneath ANYONE...we are all equal! PERIOD.

But, to say that gays don't deserve the right to marry, because marriage should be reserved solely for heterosexual couples, IS stating that homosexuals are beneath heterosexuals.
Excluding one group of people from a right that is afforded others, is implying a belief that they're less worthy.

I believe you said you're a female... well, looking back prior to the 1920s, do you feel it was fair that females were not allowed to vote? Do you agree with the then-popular notion that such important decision-making should only be left to males, because the Bible so obviously states that women should play submissive roles to men?

Are women now going against God's wishes by working outside of the home, and voting, and generally finding themselves in roles more equal to males?

[½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®]

I’m going to throw in my 2¢. I love my God and enjoy the spiritual relationship I have with my God. I find the PC bible study program I have very fascinating. The bible teaches great values to live by and I believe most of the bible was written having good intentions. The problem with it is, yes man wrote it.

My thoughts on male homosexuals? I’m sorry I don’t understand it. I don’t hate anyone for being a homosexual but damn it men how can you look at another man and find him sexually attractive? I really can not fathom that. As far as a woman finding another woman sexually attractive I can deal with that. :nod: :lol: Strange isn’t it?

The main reason I popped in is to say “ After reading a good bit of this thread I need to talk to my God about what some of you have said.” I’m guilty of having been closed minded about gay males. I still don’t understand you men looking at each other’s winkies. Thinking about it will probably always make my skin crawl but I am seeing your views with a new light tonight.

Like I said “I don’t hate you”, but come on guys. :laugh: The world is full of beautiful women. What the….. :shocked: Why do you….. :shocked: How can you….. :shocked: Ewww. :distress:

Crap I give up. :lol:

[Johnny Stew]

Johnny Stew...Once again, the power of your words has brought tears to my eyes. Thank you, thank you, thank you, for saying that. Thank you for, once again, bringing the urgent reality of the situation to my full attention. God bless you.

Justin... I don't know what to say. I'm touched and honored that you were moved by my comments. That means a lot to me.

We have to keep fighting the good fight.
For Jimmy (http://www.jimwheeler.org/index.html), and for everyone like him....

[Johnny Stew]

My thoughts on male homosexuals? I’m sorry I don’t understand it. I don’t hate anyone for being a homosexual but damn it men how can you look at another man and find him sexually attractive? I really can not fathom that. As far as a woman finding another woman sexually attractive I can deal with that. :nod: :lol: Strange isn’t it?

The main reason I popped in is to say “ After reading a good bit of this thread I need to talk to my God about what some of you have said.” I’m guilty of having been closed minded about gay males. I still don’t understand you men looking at each other’s winkies. Thinking about it will probably always make my skin crawl but I am seeing your views with a new light tonight.

Like I said “I don’t hate you”, but come on guys. :laugh: The world is full of beautiful women. What the….. :shocked: Why do you….. :shocked: How can you….. :shocked: Ewww. :distress:

Crap I give up. :lol:

I don't expect everyone to share the emotional and physical response that I have for other males, or to even understand it... so long as they respect me, and recognize that I am a human being who is worthy of the same rights afforded to others.

And, think of it this way, 1/2.... the more gay men there are, the less competition there is for you. ;)

Plus, who can explain why they're attracted to something?
I'm sure you're not really attracted to ALL types of women. Nor am I attracted to all types of men.
We're captivated by certain people for certain reasons... their intelligence, their smile, their eyes, their chests (whether it be pecs or breasts), their legs, their backsides, the way they challenge us intellectually or arouse us physically, the way they smell, and so on.

There are a multitude of ways that someone might be attractive to us, just as there are a multitude of ways in which someone might be unattractive to us.

The difference between what any two straight men might find attractive in the opposite sex, can be as profound as the difference between what a straight man and a gay man find attractive in prospective romantic partners.

And for those straight guys who are attracted to extremely aggressive, muscular women like Lori on 'Amazing Race'... well, the difference between what they like and what some gay men like, might not be all that profound after all! ;)

[irishgrl]

hate to break it to you, but the woman didn't make the baby by herself, she had a little help from someone.
Too true too true. Therefore, since men and their unruly penises are the PROBLEM, I say mandatory CHASTITY BELTS FOR ALL MALES! Voila! no more problem!
:nod:

ps: you start a thread, you go away for a few days and you come back and MY GAWD! its mutated into a MONSTER! but mighty fun reading gang! Keep up the good work!

[GateandGarden]

I’m going to throw in my 2¢. I love my God and enjoy the spiritual relationship I have with my God. I find the PC bible study program I have very fascinating. The bible teaches great values to live by and I believe most of the bible was written having good intentions. The problem with it is, yes man wrote it.

My thoughts on male homosexuals? I’m sorry I don’t understand it. I don’t hate anyone for being a homosexual but damn it men how can you look at another man and find him sexually attractive? I really can not fathom that. As far as a woman finding another woman sexually attractive I can deal with that. :nod: :lol: Strange isn’t it?

The main reason I popped in is to say “ After reading a good bit of this thread I need to talk to my God about what some of you have said.” I’m guilty of having been closed minded about gay males. I still don’t understand you men looking at each other’s winkies. Thinking about it will probably always make my skin crawl but I am seeing your views with a new light tonight.

Like I said “I don’t hate you”, but come on guys. :laugh: The world is full of beautiful women. What the….. :shocked: Why do you….. :shocked: How can you….. :shocked: Ewww. :distress:

Crap I give up. :lol:1/2 Insane, I can understand why attraction to men is foreign to you since you're straight, but I would think that a woman's attraction to a man would be just as foreign to you. :shrug:

[DrummerDeanna]

Wow - I read the first page and the just for kicks jumped all the way to the last page - and wow...it seems I need to read back to see where this topic veered way off track :laugh:

As for the original thing - I knew this was happening last year - I did a story on a local homeless shelter and program that tries to get people out of homelessness - and they knew these cuts in HUD were looming - and sadly that is going to leave a large chunk of people homeless - it's very sad.

Now - I'll try and muster up the energy to see where this thread veered :p and read all 33 pages of it....

[gldstwmn]

Wow - I read the first page and the just for kicks jumped all the way to the last page - and wow...it seems I need to read back to see where this topic veered way off track :laugh:

As for the original thing - I knew this was happening last year - I did a story on a local homeless shelter and program that tries to get people out of homelessness - and they knew these cuts in HUD were looming - and sadly that is going to leave a large chunk of people homeless - it's very sad.

Now - I'll try and muster up the energy to see where this thread veered :p and read all 33 pages of it....

Well...you might just want to skim it. :lol:

[gldstwmn]

I just hate being alone on this (no conservatives here to back me up)

No facts to back you up, either. Coulter never let that stop her. :shrug:

[DrummerDeanna]

We have Catholics on this board who disagree. There are numerous gay Christian organizations who disagree.

And I absolutely cannot believe you're still asking us not to be angry. Do you understand at all that I am saving myself for marriage?!?!?

:wavey: :wavey:

Proud Catholic on this board who has disagreed with pretty much EVERYTHING that BrwnEyes or whatever has said...

what he/she has said, to me, ipitomizes all that is wrong with the Catholic Church and its antiquated views on the world....why do I remain a Catholic?

There are good things about it (social justice issues) and I do like the traditions and I have a personal spiritual relationship with myself and God - in no way should any of my views be imposed on anyone...

eh - there's SO much I want to say - but just can't sit here at type all of it - it's frightening though that such ignorance, hatred and such exist and are carried out in the guise of religion - people like that are missing the whole point...

[DrummerDeanna]

Everyone SHOULD believe in something, in my opinion. I feel a belief in a being higher than ourselves, inspires us to continue working towards being better people.

BUT... when God/Jesus/The Bible is used as an excuse for discriminatory and prejudicial thoughts and opinions, that's simply wrong.

Anyone who paid attention, should know that God is about UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.
HE would never condone treating people as if they're second-class citizens, and HE would most certainly never condone using His name to excuse exclusionary behaviour.

If people feel they're "doing God's work," by preventing gays from having equal rights in employment, housing and spousal benefits, then I have a feeling they're going to be in for a terribly rude awakening when they go knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's door.

Right - what he said!!! :blob1: well put Brian!!

[Sugar]

I need to start staying up later... :lol:

The point is that Brwn Eyes and everyone else does have the right to BELIEVE whatever they like. Brwn Eyes kept saying, "Sorry it's what I believe," and really you can believe whatever you like. But when you start trying to LEGISLATE your BELIEF system based on nothing other than the fact that your BELIEF system somehow gives you the right to do so that there's a problem. No matter how right you think you are, trying to force others to adhere to your belief system (via the implementation of laws) is unconstitutional.

Because (you think) God said so, on its own, is not a reason to make a law.

Period.

[SuzeQuze]

I need to start staying up later... :lol:

The point is that Brwn Eyes and everyone else does have the right to BELIEVE whatever they like. Brwn Eyes kept saying, "Sorry it's what I believe," and really you can believe whatever you like. But when you start trying to LEGISLATE your BELIEF system based on nothing other than the fact that your BELIEF system somehow gives you the right to do so that there's a problem. No matter how right you think you are, trying to force others to adhere to your belief system (via the implementation of laws) is unconstitutional.

Because (you think) God said so, on its own, is not a reason to make a law.

Period.

Very well said, Sugar. I stayed up 'til one debating this and today I'm exhausted!

[DrummerDeanna]

Yes indeed, very well said Sugar :nod:

This is my biggest issue right now..that people think that their religious beliefs should hold true for everyone...

So that said if someone could give me a logical, smart and well-thought out reason against homosexuality or gay-marriage - that has NOTHING to do with religion - I'm all ears - but no one can do that....therefore it shouldn't even be a political issue etc....urhg....I'm just all frustrated and agitated now after reading through this thread...

[Sugar]

Very well said, Sugar. I stayed up 'til one debating this and today I'm exhausted!

I have no doubt you're tired... :lol:

It just amazes me when I see POLITICIANS (forget a bunch of nobodies on a message board :lol: ) quoting the bible and using it for justification for passing a law. I mean, how far does it have to go before that is state sanctioned religion?

[SuzeQuze]

I have no doubt you're tired... :lol:

It just amazes me when I see POLITICIANS (forget a bunch of nobodies on a message board :lol: ) quoting the bible and using it for justification for passing a law. I mean, how far does it have to go before that is state sanctioned religion?

Thinking about how far it could go is a very scary thing. :eek:

I heard this morning that Kennedy blasted Bush regarding this war and called it his Vietnam over the weekend. I want to hear more "somebodies" speak out this way.

[Sugar]

Yes indeed, very well said Sugar :nod:

So that said if someone could give me a logical, smart and well-thought out reason against homosexuality or gay-marriage - that has NOTHING to do with religion - I'm all ears - but no one can do that....therefore it shouldn't even be a political issue etc....

EXACTLY! When I hear any anti-gay rhetoric, the second I hear, "the Bible..." I usually say, "wait, we're talking about law. The bible ALONE has no place in law."

People will say, "Yeah but, our laws are based on the Ten Commandments..." and maybe that's true, but I think those that were applied to our system of laws passed an additional threshold by being logical necessities for keeping a civil society (not killing others, not stealing, etc.)

So yes, I'm looking for arguments that have nothing to do with the Bible. ANYONE?

[irishgrl]

re: abortion:
1) the Earth cannot sustain every potential pregnancy. China learned this the hard way when it was discovered that they could not FEED their population and had to IMPORT FOOD. Guess who they import it from?
2) Legislation limiting pregnancy is aimed at the POOR, the group with the least ability to care for more babies. In CA, the Hispanics are the fastest growing minority (both legal residents, AND illegal) and as good Catholics, they swell the ranks of public assistance by leaps and bounds. I should know, I am a Social Worker and I have detailed knowledge about the cash aid/foodstamp program and I can see the demographics in my office on a daily basis. I am also a Paralegal and I have researched the Abortion issue in great detail. I think it would surprise many of you to learn that originally, Abortion was limited because it was feared that the medical procedure was not safe, and that the concern was for the MOTHER'S LIFE!!! It wasnt until the 80's that the Moral Majority (there's a misnomer) put a new spin on things by equating "pro-life" with concern for the baby. Apparently the mother's situation no longer mattered. Couple this with the push to eliminate access to birth control and/or censor birth control education (I know many a school board that has been infiltrated by Bible thumping fundamentalists whose agenda includes mandatory Bible study and NO sex education) and you have young people whose futures are increasingly dismal as they become young parents without prospects.
3) Every time I hear the argument that we shouldnt tamper with God's will (every pregnancy is God's will, only God has the right to decide) I have to LAFF. We tamper with God's will ALL THE TIME! Think of all the diseases we cure/thwart and all the lives we've saved/prolonged and you see what I mean. This brings me back to the original point that the Earth cannot support an increasing population....
4) I myself see the handwriting on the wall, the current whittling of women's rights will eventually reduce women (and children btw) to the status of chattel (the property of a male head of household) and harken back to the 19th century. If a woman cant get a divorce because she is pregnant, and she cant get an abortion, she will be trapped. Im old enuff to remember the struggles of the Women's Rights groups of the 60's. I remember the stories of the back alley abortions. When people blithely say "oh well they shouldnt have sex then" they are speaking without knowledge of particular circumstances. I dont know what brings any individual into an abortion clinic, but its not MY place to judge and it isnt the job of the religious right either. If your religious beliefs forbid you from having an abortion then by God, DONT HAVE ONE! but DONT presume to tell ME what to do with MY body.

[dissention]

which in essence is true...we should try to save ouselves for marriage...God forbid anyone speak of morality in these times we live in!

Your morality is not everyone's morality, dear.