The doc!!!

[dissention]

Your thoughts?!

[pwyll]

Loved it......need the other 498.5 hours of footage. Anyone know how to get the film?

[WelshWitchPMD]

I think it was about 10 minutes too short.

[diamondsnake]

I thought it was excellent! It makes me so jealous that I can't start a band and have a blast like they were having. It really looked like a lot of fun. Best FM special I have ever seen!

I thought it was interesting how Everybody Finds Out was being practiced during the tour rehearsals, so maybe, just maybe it will be in the setlist in May! I hope!

It was a little dissapointing that it got you so excited about the tour and then they didn't show you any clips from opening night. Oh well, I guess we will have to wait a few months for the Boston show.

[kak125]

I really liked the documentary but I do have to admit that I wanted to see a little more drama but Stevie is so darn cute. She just cracks me up and Lindsey is just too much. He is such a hottie though!

I wish they would have had Everybody Finds Out in the set list because that song rocks but maybe they will add it for the tour in May.

I was kinda mad that they didnt show more concert footage. I figured that the documentary would be the full 90 minutes but I think it was only 78 minutes long. I couldnt believe it when the screen went black when they showed them walking up to the stage. They should have showed a couple of songs but it is VH1 so I know I should be glad that I got to see anything.

I think I am going to listen to Say You Will again now. I love that cd.

[dissention]

My favorite part of the whole show was when they worked on "Goodbye Baby," just Stevie and Lindsey. Lindsey was sitting in his chair, playing his guitar, and Stevie was sitting on the couch and singing. All I have to say was, boy, Stevie looked like the most gorgeous woman I've ever seen during that part; she was stunning. I watched it with my mother (I had to go over there because she has a DVD burner) and she turned to me and said "How old is she?!" I told her she'd be 56 in May and she almost **** bricks. :laugh: That was just an awesome part!!!!

AND- they were working on EFO for the stage!!!

The only thing I was disappointed with was that they didn't show any of the viciousness about the album tracks. :(

And Kristen? She came off as a major snob. :nod:

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by kak125
Stevie is so darn cute.

I know, she is! I loved how she got a talking fish to lighten the mood in the house! And her little talk about how ten year olds don't want to hear 25 songs from a bunch of 50 somethings was really funny and true!

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by dissention
And Kristen? She came off as a major snob. :nod:

Who's Kristen?

[dissention]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
I know, she is! I loved how she got a talking fish to lighten the mood in the house! And her little talk about how ten year olds don't want to hear 25 songs from a bunch of 50 somethings was really funny and true!

I felt like screaming at the TV "10 year olds don't want to hear even ONE song from a bunch of fiftysomethings!" :laugh: Where in the hell did she get the idea that 10 year olds would buy their album?!

[dissention]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Who's Kristen?

Liddy's wife.

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by dissention
I felt like screaming at the TV "10 year olds don't want to hear even ONE song from a bunch of fiftysomethings!" :laugh: Where in the hell did she get the idea that 10 year olds would buy their album?!

I'm only 15 and I stood on line at midnight to buy the album! :laugh: However, that is rare and I was thinking the same thing- no ten year old is going to buy it!

[kak125]

I noticed a couple of times where Kristen was in the documentary but she never really said anything. Of course what would she have to say anyway. I loved the part when they were talking about Thrown Down and Stevie was saying how it was about Lindsey and him saying something to the effect of how he knows the song is about him and that you have to distance yourself from that but you can tell he was flattered by it (as he should be).

Stevie looked really good in this documentary. Her skin looks amazing

[SteveMacD]

I know I'll be in the minority, but I thought it was boring. It's interesting in that we got to see the album being recorded, but it didn't offer what I'd consider new insight into the band. My BIGGEST gripe is that they didn't have enough of John's sarcasm.

[dissention]

Originally posted by kak125
Stevie looked really good in this documentary. Her skin looks amazing

She must be friends with Victoria Principal. :laugh:

[estranged4life]

seems it should be an interesting show to see from the posts I have read thus far.

Brian j.

[sarahw]

I thought it was great....I also thought Stevie looked awesome...very slender and just very happy. Lindsay does seem a bit high maintenance though.

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by SteveMacD
I know I'll be in the minority, but I thought it was boring. It's interesting in that we got to see the album being recorded, but it didn't offer what I'd consider new insight into the band. My BIGGEST gripe is that they didn't have enough of John's sarcasm.

Did you see John's face when Silver Girl was played for the first time? No one liked it, though. I couldn't believe it, there was dead silence when Silver Girl came on and everyone had these blank stares! :laugh:

[dissention]

Originally posted by estranged4life
seems it should be an interesting show to see from the posts I have read thus far.

Brian j.

It did drag a bit in certain spots and you could tell that they did LOTS of selective editing (they didn't show ANYTHING about the tracklist fights, which they said got very heated), but it was entertaining. All I can say is thank god Chris Lord-Alge didn't mix the album.

[dissention]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Did you see John's face when Silver Girl was played for the first time? No one liked it, though. I couldn't believe it, there was dead silence when Silver Girl came on and everyone had these blank stares! :laugh:

Lindsey rolled his eyes very secretly. You're right, they seemed to think it was a real dog.

[Mike B]

I thought it was great! Very cool to be a fly on the wall while they argue and sing. And argue. I thought everyone came off fairly well.

My favorite footage was the reheasals for the tour. (Whichever of Stevie's dogs that was there sure did enjoy GYOW!)

I thought the editing was a little choppy. The black fades (which I guess are where commercials will go) were very abrupt. But it was filmed nicely.

My complaint is like everyone elses - more footage! Maybe if there is a DVD we'll get some outtakes. Also, it would have been nice to have seen some full performances (like the Tusk doc) mixed in. And I wish we had seen more songs that didn't make the album. But hey, now I'm nitpicking. :laugh:

Great show! It's a great time to be a Mac fan!

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Did you see John's face when Silver Girl was played for the first time? No one liked it, though. I couldn't believe it, there was dead silence when Silver Girl came on and everyone had these blank stares! :laugh:

I disagree - I thought they liked it. I liked it, esp. the flute.

[strandinthewind]

I mean LB said - if you keep writing like that we will have a double album.

[SteveMacD]

Originally posted by dissention
I felt like screaming at the TV "10 year olds don't want to hear even ONE song from a bunch of fiftysomethings!" :laugh: Where in the hell did she get the idea that 10 year olds would buy their album?!

What she was saying is that the major record buying demographic is people aged 10-27, not people their age, and that realistically, the band isn't going to be selling albums to the lower half of that age group.

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I disagree - I thought they liked it. I liked it, esp. the flute.

Rewind your tape and watch Lindsey's reaction!!!! ;)

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
Rewind your tape and watch Lindsey's reaction!!!! ;)

I did. HYe seemed okay.

Also, I loved the recored exec sing along to SYW :laugh:

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by dissention
It did drag a bit in certain spots and you could tell that they did LOTS of selective editing (they didn't show ANYTHING about the tracklist fights, which they said got very heated), but it was entertaining. All I can say is thank god Chris Lord-Alge didn't mix the album.

Oh well, I will probably just watch it once when I get my copy...I'm not really fond of doctumentaries that show how an album was constructed (Excluding U2's "Unforgettable Fire" which was included on the "go Home..." DVD) because they are usually heavily edited to remove the real interesting/emotional footage.

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I disagree - I thought they liked it. I liked it, esp. the flute.

Oh, I love Silver Girl too, The only reason I mentioned it was because most people hate it. But really, you thought they liked it?

[SmthngOfADreamr]

I thought it was interesting but would have like to have seen some more fights too. It must have been really boring for someone who was not a huge fan of the band though.

I'm really hoping that Everybody Finds Out will actually see the light of day on tour. It didn't sound that bad at all and that wasn't even with a full backup band. Also I noticed that they were practicing Illume (it was written on the setlist board).

[dissention]

Originally posted by SteveMacD
What she was saying is that the major record buying demographic is people aged 10-27, not people their age, and that realistically, the band isn't going to be selling albums to the lower half of that age group.

Of course not, but 800,000 17-27 year olds didn't buy it, either. I would bet money that thwo-thirds of the people that bought it were middle-aged, classic rock fans. Besides, the whole arguemnt of a double album not being successful is really bull**** these days. It's not the late-seventies where a double album was double the price. It's the new millenium and a double album is the same as a single disc.

[Mike B]

Originally posted by dissention
My favorite part of the whole show was when they worked on "Goodbye Baby," just Stevie and Lindsey.

Yes, that was a cool moment! Stevie sounded so good. And damn, she looked great throughout the whole thing. Good for her. :laugh:

Originally posted by dissention
Besides, the whole arguemnt of a double album not being successful is really bull**** these days. It's not the late-seventies where a double album was double the price. It's the new millenium and a double album is the same as a single disc.

Yep, the last couple of CDs I bought were 2 discs...not full tracklistings, but bonus discs or DVDs. And they weren't priced any more than a regular CD. So WTF?

Also, what was that Lindsey said about only being paid royalties for 12 songs on an album? Huh? Is that a standard thing or a deal they had worked out or what?

[kak125]

I loved when they were listening to Say You Will on the couch and Stevie said something about it being commerical and then she was like "I am praying to the commercial gods". HA HA, that was too funny!

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Oh, I love Silver Girl too, The only reason I mentioned it was because most people hate it. But really, you thought they liked it?

I was expecting them to cringe or something, but they just sort of sat there. Also, I think that part was havily edited. So, who knows if the parts they showed were the acutal reactions to the songs seen in the previous clips?

[diamondsnake]

Do you think we will ever see the really good footage? I am sure there were some tears shed and some really ugly fights going on. But obviously, they wouldn't want everybody seeing this. Maybe some of this stuff will be leaked some how?

[gldstwmn]

PLEASE DO EVERYBODY FINDS OUT LIVE!:)

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I did. HYe seemed okay.

Also, I loved the recored exec sing along to SYW :laugh:

We must've watched a different show :laugh: My entire household fell over with laughter when he rolled his eyes. I thought that Mick dug it, but there's no accounting for taste. :laugh:

And I thought that record exec was a hoot :nod:

[strandinthewind]

I was like "light the campfire and we'll roast marshmellows while we sing along! " :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Of course Mick dug it - he's dig SN reading the phone book if he thought he could sell it :cool:

[dissention]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Do you think we will ever see the really good footage? I am sure there were some tears shed and some really ugly fights going on. But obviously, they wouldn't want everybody seeing this. Maybe some of this stuff will be leaked some how?

The Warren Zevon doc was released on DVD with LOTS of extra footage, so cross your fingers.

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by SmthngOfADreamr
Also I noticed that they were practicing Illume (it was written on the setlist board).

Please tell me they will completely rework the setlist because I would die if they did Illume! I love that song!

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by dissention
My favorite part of the whole show was when they worked on "Goodbye Baby," just Stevie and Lindsey. Lindsey was sitting in his chair, playing his guitar, and Stevie was sitting on the couch and singing. All I have to say was, boy, Stevie looked like the most gorgeous woman I've ever seen during that part; she was stunning. I watched it with my mother (I had to go over there because she has a DVD burner) and she turned to me and said "How old is she?!" I told her she'd be 56 in May and she almost **** bricks. :laugh: That was just an awesome part!!!!

AND- they were working on EFO for the stage!!!

The only thing I was disappointed with was that they didn't show any of the viciousness about the album tracks. :(

And Kristen? She came off as a major snob. :nod:

Agreed. Agreed. And Agreed. You? Are currently in my head. That scares me....don't liberal it all up :D <333

This totally exceeded my expectations. It was really amazing to see them in a way in which we never have before. Lindsey set out to humanize them all and I would say that in making this documentary, he's done just that. Not only do I have more of an appreciation for the craft of record making and for the music they have created that become the Say You Will album, but I love them now more than ever. I can't wait to see them again

[dissention]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Of course Mick dug it - he's dig SN reading the phone book if he thought he could sell it :cool:

:nod:

And were you repulsed when he took off his shirt? Ick.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Oh, I love Silver Girl too, The only reason I mentioned it was because most people hate it. But really, you thought they liked it?

If the band didn't like it, it would never have made it on the record.

[diamondsnake]

Does anyone agree that there is no question who the better singer is now? I thought Stevie sang great on everything (with no music backing her up) but I almost cringed at some of Lindsey's singing, especially his back up to SYW.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
:nod:

And were you repulsed when he took off his shirt? Ick.

I was like its four minutes into it and you are subjecting us to this AAAARRRGGHGHGHGG:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[dissention]

Originally posted by GardenStateGirlie
Agreed. Agreed. And Agreed. You? Are currently in my head. That scares me....don't liberal it all up :D <333

This totally exceeded my expectations. It was really amazing to see them in a way in which we never have before. Lindsey set out to humanize them all and I would say that in making this documentary, he's done just that. Not only do I have more of an appreciation for the craft of record making and for the music they have created that become the Say You Will album, but I love them now more than ever. I can't wait to see them again

:laugh: :wavey:

I totally agree with you. The show was incredible.

Ah, I can't wait until tomorrow when we all bitch about when we're going to get something new to chew on. :laugh:

[GypsySorcerer]

Overall, I thought it was very good. Stevie's little dog running around during rehearsals was so funny -- especially when it went over there by John. :laugh:

Stevie looked beautiful!!!!! She sounded great too. Lindsey's awesome of course. I love when the drama between them rears its head.

I thought it was really funny when Stevie joked about having to do blues for World Turning. I think the song has come a long way since that initial rehearsal. :laugh: :nod:

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Does anyone agree that there is no question who the better singer is now? I thought Stevie sang great on everything (with no music backing her up) but I almost cringed at some of Lindsey's singing, especially his back up to SYW.

Well, to be fair, LB was singing the harmony parts, which are more difficult and are not are often not as melodic as the lead.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
We must've watched a different show :laugh: My entire household fell over with laughter when he rolled his eyes. I thought that Mick dug it, but there's no accounting for taste. :laugh:

And I thought that record exec was a hoot :nod:

How did you love the shot of the driveway full of Mercedes?

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Well, to be fair, LB was singing the harmony parts, which are more difficult and are not are often not as melodic as the lead.

Oh yeah, I guess that is true, we never saw him sing lead on anything, which I liked because I would rather see Stevie's songs. The only thing I was dissapointed about was that we never saw Running through the Garden being recorded, which has those great vocals...

[dissention]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Does anyone agree that there is no question who the better singer is now? I thought Stevie sang great on everything (with no music backing her up) but I almost cringed at some of Lindsey's singing, especially his back up to SYW.

Well...

I thought they both had some equally apalling vocal moments. The two of them REALLY need to stand up when they sing.

[diamondsnake]

Stevie seemed really nervous before the concert...

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
How did you love the shot of the driveway full of Mercedes?

I know - I was like here you are LB talking about how money does not matter and yet you are driving your $80,000 Mercedes, showing us you milti million dollar new house that is replacing your former milti million dolalr house on the same site and you are considering hiring four different mixers to mix the same songs you spent over a million dolalrs to record :laugh:

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by dissention
Well...

I thought they both had some equally apalling vocal moments. The two of them REALLY need to stand up when they sing.

Stevie's WTWCT? vocals were not Grammy worthy, I'll admit. But Lindsey's SYW vocals really made me cringe...

[dissention]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
How did you love the shot of the driveway full of Mercedes?

I was jealous, of course. :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Again, harmony vocals are different, esp. in a band like FM where they dilute them by layering like ten of them far in the background.

[dissention]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Stevie's WTWCT? vocals were not Grammy worthy, I'll admit. But Lindsey's SYW vocals really made me cringe...

I'd take his SYW vocals over Stevie's WTWCT vocals any day of the week. They were both bad, but the WTWCT vocals? Oh my word. :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Lindsey was struggling with the vocal on World Turning.
John McVie is priceless. I love how he just makes a gesture and Lindsey knows exactly what he means. His little thing about not being able to get in the writers heads was cool And the line about the sports car doing 55 is priceless.
At the end, Stevie's dog was barking at Micks drums. Too cute.
And Lindsey's two bedrooom apartment story is another keeper.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by dissention
I was jealous, of course. :laugh:

:laugh: And then LB is revealed to be driving... a Mercedes. Didn't peg him for a Mercedes owner.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by dissention
I'd take his SYW vocals over Stevie's WTWCT vocals any day of the week. They were both bad, but the WTWCT vocals? Oh my word. :laugh:

His SYW harmonies were aweful, but they blend in with the layering. i would have edited that out because he sounded bad, even though I love the guy!!!

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally posted by gldstwmn

And Lindsey's two bedrooom apartment story is another keeper.



:laugh: :laugh: I howled at that one.

[DrummerDeanna]

I totally loved it...it kept me entertained and I laughed a lot, which is good :D

I loved the "people my age aren't sitting around smoking dope...>" thing....and I loved the phone thing when Linds said people were pointing finger and Stevie's like, "NO WE'RE NOT LINDSEY!!" LOL...their arguing totally reminded me of my boyfriend and I which probably is NOT a good sign LOL....

anyway....I thouroughly enjoyed it :D

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
:laugh: And then LB is revealed to be driving... a Mercedes. Didn't peg him for a Mercedes owner.

An $80,000 + one at that!!!

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I know - I was like here you are LB talking about how money does not matter and yet you are driving your $80,000 Mercedes, showing us you milti million dollar new house that is replacing your former milti million dolalr house on the same site and you are considering hiring four different mixers to mix the same songs you spent over a million dolalrs to record :laugh:

I know. Is he just a tad out of touch with reality?

:laugh:

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by Lux
Ah! Don't say 'Lindsey's vocals' and 'cringe' in the same sentence. It makes me weep. Now I'm not looking forward to the doco as much.

There was nothing wrong with his vocals...the doc did seem to show him singing harmonies though...so perhaps that's why he sounds "off" to some?

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by Lux
Ah! Don't say 'Lindsey's vocals' and 'cringe' in the same sentence. It makes me weep. Now I'm not looking forward to the doco as much.

Lux - you will love it because LB is great in it. Its just IMO sometimes his vocals leave me cold. The best parts of him on this IMO are him jamming on the guitar, which he does like no one else!

[GardenStateGirlie]

"Where's Lindsey??"

"I'm peeing!"

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by DrummerDeanna
There was nothing wrong with his vocals...the doc did seem to show him singing harmonies though...so perhaps that's why he sounds "off" to some?

ITA - take for example, SN's harmoies on Miranda in the center channel mix. By themselves, those harmony layers make no sense. But they come together in the final product.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Lux - you will love it because LB is great in it. Its just IMO sometimes his vocals leave me cold. The best parts of him on this IMO are him jamming on the guitar, which he does like no one else!

True. I loved watching him play the Dobro. I think singing the high harmony is a new thing for him. He's not accustomed to it. And did anyone else crack up at him holding the mic like a lounge singer when they were rehearsing World Turning? Drop that song and play Everybody Finds Out or Illume or Red Rover.

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by GardenStateGirlie
"Where's Lindsey??"

"I'm peeing!"

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
When was that?

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by GardenStateGirlie
"Where's Lindsey??"

"I'm peeing!"

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

LOL...I thought that's what he said but I wasn't totally sure...LMAO..there were some great moments in this for sure!!!

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
ITA - take for example, SN's harmoies on Miranda in the center channel mix. By themselves, those harmony layers make no sense. But they come together in the final product.

Definitely....uh...and here my ignorance show...what does ITA stand for? :laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
When was that?

Right before they went onstage in Columbus.

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
When was that?

It was at the very end before they head out on stage :nod:

I was going to call you...i've got Merf on the line....woot...it's a partay!

[Carlene]

Dammit, I love this band. I love them even more after having watched this documentary! It was excellent and like everyone else, I'm hoping we get MORE in a future DVD release.

I mean, we have to help Linds pay for that house, now don't we!?! ;)

I'm at a loss of what to add to everyone else's comments....only that it seemed like everything I was wishing they'd show, they did! I wanted to see the kids on "Say You Will," and I was hoping they'd show the shooting of the album cover...and they did show those scenes!

And I really found myself getting nervous/anxious while Lindsey was trying to sell Stevie on reworking "Thrown Down"....too much! I needed a bag of popcorn! :cool:

I can't wait to watch it again...

[gldstwmn]

Has anyone else heard that RTTG demo that she played for them before?

[GardenStateGirlie]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Has anyone else heard that RTTG demo that she played for them before?

I don't know but I think we're going to have to find it :nod:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by GardenStateGirlie
I don't know but I think we're going to have to find it :nod:

It doesn't sound like the one that's been floating around for ages. It sounds more finished.

[Enchanted58]

I was surprised to see Linds driving a big-ass Mercedes as well. So tell me - what type of car did you all think he drove?!

Eileen

[wondergirl9847]

LMAO!! Did anyone notice Lindsey's circa 1982 Mirage video "adjustment" during the photo shoot?? :lol: I just about died. Go watch it again, he's wearing the leather pants, laying on the floor and he adjusts...it's the funniest thing. BWAH!!

I am about to go watch it again, it's on in 3 minutes....I wanna LISTEN to stuff I missed the first time around. I'll be back with more thoughts later.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
LMAO!! Did anyone notice Lindsey's circa 1982 Mirage video "adjustment" during the photo shoot?? :lol: I just about died. Go watch it again, he's wearing the leather pants, laying on the floor and he adjusts...it's the funniest thing. BWAH!!

I am about to go watch it again, it's on in 3 minutes....I wanna LISTEN to stuff I missed the first time around. I'll be back with more thoughts later.

I DID notice that but really thought that I was seeing things, or that I didn't see right...or something...*phew* I'm not the only one that noticed it...now that i know that's what happened...I'm highly amused :laugh:

[WelshWitchPMD]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
LMAO!! Did anyone notice Lindsey's circa 1982 Mirage video "adjustment" during the photo shoot?? :lol: I just about died. Go watch it again, he's wearing the leather pants, laying on the floor and he adjusts...it's the funniest thing. BWAH!!

I am about to go watch it again, it's on in 3 minutes....I wanna LISTEN to stuff I missed the first time around. I'll be back with more thoughts later.

Yep, Christy I noticed ;)

[AgainLindsey]

ditto

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Enchanted58
I was surprised to see Linds driving a big-ass Mercedes as well. So tell me - what type of car did you all think he drove?!

Eileen

I thought maybe a nice Jaguar or something along those lines. The Mercedes is such a status symbol car that I just don't think it's him. Maybe it's the wife's car, who knows.

[WelshWitchPMD]

Hey, I am watching it again. When they are at AHI in 2001 doing Landslide does Lindsey say "I love you" to Stevie at the end? It looks like that to me.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by WelshWitchPMD
Hey, I am watching it again. When they are at AHI in 2001 doing Landslide does Lindsey say "I love you" to Stevie at the end? It looks like that to me.

I thought so as well.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I thought it was very good...showed me how normal these guys really are...I could totally just like hang out with them...Stevie's so cool and calm...and her outfits were incredible...

It just made me feel so good about the band...I am very glad it left me with a good and happy feeling...they seem to be really humble to be doing this (and not only doin it for the money, like the one critic said).....it was very good...

[AgainLindsey]

lindsey had a bmw in the 70s. he always had an expensive car. see old rolling stone articles

great doc!

[gldstwmn]

When Stevie was singing Goodbye Baby at the keybord with Lindsey, there was a picture of Waddy on the wall next to her. I was trying to get a closer look but her mic was in the way.

[DeeGeMe]

Come on guys, he's a native Californian and they love their cars! Hell, they are ARE their cars! And you know--he's a family man now and Mercedes are safe!

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by WelshWitchPMD
Hey, I am watching it again. When they are at AHI in 2001 doing Landslide does Lindsey say "I love you" to Stevie at the end? It looks like that to me.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking....it looks like that to me too.

[WelshWitchPMD]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
When Stevie was singing Goodbye Baby at the keybord with Lindsey, there was a picture of Waddy on the wall next to her. I was trying to get a closer look but her mic was in the way.

Yeah, I caught that pic of Waddy, too.

[Cammie]

:wavey: Rather boring...but we girls did...ahhh
notice Lindsey arranging "things":eek:...darn
near fell off my seat! He looked very very
handsome but very thin! Not much new!!!
Why DIDN'T they show the concert!:( Sky

[diamondsnake]

The "People may age aren't laying on the floor smoking dope" line was lol funny!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Did you see John's face when Silver Girl was played for the first time? No one liked it, though. I couldn't believe it, there was dead silence when Silver Girl came on and everyone had these blank stares! :laugh: Originally posted by dissention
Lindsey rolled his eyes very secretly. You're right, they seemed to think it was a real dog. Not surprisingly, I had a completely different take on that, as I was actually impressed that they looked like they all quite liked it.
John was smiling... Lindsey was nodding his head along with the music.

Didn't look like disdain to me. :nod: :)

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Has anyone else heard that RTTG demo that she played for them before? Uhm... how did I miss that part?

Are we talking about her first day at the Bellagio House?
She played "Destiny Rules" (we hear the opening, before the vocals would kick in), "Say You Will," and "Silver Girl."

Throughout the rest of the doc, the only additional Stevie songs we hear being recorded/worked out are "Thrown Down," "Illume" and "Goodbye Baby."
Then we also get to hear some of "Everybody Finds Out" at Chris Lord-Alge's studio, and as they're rehearsing it.

But I didn't catch "Running Through The Garden" anywhere. :confused:

[deribish]

My fav parts were just seeing Stevie's dogs running around everywhere -- especially when there were in the other studios (mixing and rehearsing) ... those lil' doggies just running around being friendly. It was really too cute. That-- and the fish too.

I loved the album cover shoot too. I had always wondered if they actually photogrphaed them individually, together, and if the whole cardboard background was actaully added in photoshop. It's nice to see that the cover photos are pretty much as-is. It was neat to see them pulling out Stevie's hair -- to make it long and full while she was lying down. That -- and seeing Lindsey in his leather pants!!

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
Besides, the whole arguemnt of a double album not being successful is really bull**** these days. It's not the late-seventies where a double album was double the price. It's the new millenium and a double album is the same as a single disc. Well, we do have to keep in mind that most of the things that pass as "double albums" these days, are really just one 12-13 track album, with a bonus disc tacked on to it.
So they usually keep the cost down.

One that can be considered a "true" double ("true" in that the second disc doesnt merely contain alternate mixes, live tracks or video-clips), is Outkast's 'Speakerboxxx/The Love Below,' and the list price on that is $21.98... and a great chunk of the material included, can be considered filler (interludes, etc).

Ironically, Lindsey didn't want to release an album with only 12 songs it, yet just about every critic who reviewed 'Say You Will,' felt that it would have been stronger pared down to 12 tracks.
Many fans felt the same way.

Personally, I can never get enough new material, so 18 tracks was just great for me, and 23 would have been even better. But I also realize that not everyone is as willing to spend all their hard-earned money on Fleetwood Mac CDs, as I am. :)

[wondergirl9847]

Lindsey's a TALKER. DANG!! LOL They all came across as REAL people, like everyone's been saying.

The giant fight about the mixing...WOW!! That was tense!!

The sped-up parts with the sun rising and setting...BOOOORING!! WTH?! Come on, VH1, use your time WISELY. :rolleyes:

WTH song was playing RIGHT after Stevie got there and they were playing her demos? Anyone know? Was that part of Thrown Down???

I would KILL to see that 1996 era video of LB and Mick in the studio doing the GOS songs!!!!!!!!

John cracked me up throughout the show. After snapping at Mick, he's all..."That's all." LMAO!! And the "You should run for Senate..." BWAH!!

Good LAWD, Lindsey is gorgeous...he is mesmerizing throughout the show. He is a "REAL" gorgeous, you know what I mean.

LB chewing gum and putting his fingers in his mouth. He must have an oral fixation. I do also. LOL

Hearing his version of PK on TV was very cool...them jamming out to that.

BTW, Dave Attell's Insomniac was on during the second showing and OMG, it's the one with Connie, the Groupie. EWWWW!!! LOL

I enjoyed hearing LB's bgv's....especially the la-la's on SYW!! LOL

Also, when LB's voice would get really high pitched, that cracked me up!!

Kristen didn't come off as a snob...heck, she's only onscreen for 30 seconds or something. How so?

Stevie? Delinquent children? LMAO!! Okay. I could have sworn I read that like, 25-45 year olds bought music these days. :shrug:

Her going "We want all of Lindsey's dreams to come true..."...she sounded sarcastic. LOL

OMG, she SO could do Illume....acoustically!!! COME ON STEVIE!!

Tusk was a double album in a day when that was absurd...WHY are they so hard up for a single album today????

LB is a total California hippie. LMAO!! (i.e. "totally psyched" and "that's where it's at")

Stevie putting batteries and the fish and laughing at it...LMAO!!

Stevie looks AMAZING, her skin!!

That tick-tock sound during GB...freaked me out. LOL She sounded great and I loved her ad lib..."one day...one day..." Also, the subtle change of "I was with you all the time...."

Ray always looks angry, but I know that Seteca has met and talked to him and he says he is a VERY nice man. He just LOOKS mean. LOL

Stevie's WTWCT bgv's....:shocked: LOL

Monday Morning was on the setlist board!! Also, them practicing EFO...WOO FREAKING HOO!!!!! DO IT!!!

Notice, they changed the beginning look of the backstory on the second showing. That was weird.

Lindsey saying during Come, he should pretend to sing!! LMAO!!!

Lindsey sounded GREAT during World Turning!!

They all seemed very nervous before the Columbus show.

Lindsey going, "I'm peeing." LMAO!!!

Terrific show!!! Seemed shorter with commercials, tho. Glad I taped the non-commercial one. :nod:

[golden braid]

My favorite part was definitely Stevie singing Goodbye Baby along with Lindsey playing guitar. It was just beautiful. And Stevie looked amazing. I kept looking for wrinkles on her skin and couldn't find any.

I also liked watching her dogs run around. They are so cute.

I loved hearing Stevie sing but I thought Lindsey didn't sound that great.

[sparky]

Originally posted by dissention
The two of them REALLY need to stand up when they sing.

No Kidding. Most of those takes turned out to be scratch vocals, but OMG, you have to stand up to sing properly. I kept wondering if Homegirl's hip and feet were hurting bad enough so that she didn't want to stand up.

[golden braid]

I also loved hearing them sing I Am Waiting. I hope that makes the next album.

[EnchantedSLN]

Originally posted by WelshWitchPMD
Hey, I am watching it again. When they are at AHI in 2001 doing Landslide does Lindsey say "I love you" to Stevie at the end? It looks like that to me.

It looks like he says "beautiful" to me.

Overall I enjoyed the doc, but can think of a few ways it was lacking, too. But there's only so much you can aqueeze into an hour and a half. I could have done without so many shots of the house, & the time-elapsed footage of the room. It might have been cool to see them discussing which songs to leave off & why, or Sheryl coming in, or another minute from the cover photoshoot with a line from the photographer about his concept. Or a preface to how Stevie decided the girls should sing the fade on SYW, etc.

Other than that, it was very cool! I *loved* the bit of Stevie singing Goodbye Baby, the little mixing spat, and seeing the heart with which Lindsey defended his desire to have it be a double album. Now, to see the other 498 & 1/2 hours ;).

(and they actually did rehearse, or at least give some thought to playing EFO!! that SO needs to be in the setlist!)

[golden braid]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
LMAO!! Did anyone notice Lindsey's circa 1982 Mirage video "adjustment" during the photo shoot?? :lol: I just about died. Go watch it again, he's wearing the leather pants, laying on the floor and he adjusts...it's the funniest thing. BWAH!!

I am about to go watch it again, it's on in 3 minutes....I wanna LISTEN to stuff I missed the first time around. I'll be back with more thoughts later.

I'm going to go rewind the tape now and watch this again. :eek:

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
WTH song was playing RIGHT after Stevie got there and they were playing her demos? Anyone know? Was that part of Thrown Down???That was the intro to "Destiny Rules," that we heard first. But that's all we get to hear of it before they cut to "Say You Will," and then "Silver Girl."Originally posted by wondergirl9847
Her going "We want all of Lindsey's dreams to come true..."...she sounded sarcastic. LOLSee, I didn't think she sounded the least bit sarcastic. Rather, she sounded absolutely sincere and concerned for his happiness. :nod:

[diamondsnake]

True, most all the 10-27 year olds burn music these days and would not buy this album...

In fact, when my grandmother, who is in her 50's, goes to a record store she buys dozens of cds!

[diamondsnake]

Does this whole double album thing really matter? Stevie said it would be twenty-two songs, so does Lindsey really care that it got cut down to eighteen? Most people bought the Limited Edition which includes two more songs. In other words, only two songs never saw the light of day. That is not something to get upset about, is it?

[secondhandchain]

First of all, nobody looked like they disliked Silver Girl at all. Lindsey look very pleased. Some of you guys need glasses. :laugh: Also LIndsey did no mouth "I love you" at the AHI.

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Sounds fab! Can't wait to get the chance to see it!!

Pip

[stefan]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
I disagree - I thought they liked it. I liked it, esp. the flute.

No you didn't :laugh:

[DeeGeMe]

When I was watching the replay last night I noticed that the picture of Waddy also appears to have Stevie in it to--off to the far left side--you see the blonde hair. It looks like it was taken on stage somewhere to me.

And I can't believe that Stevie was so amused by that singing fish. Too funny.

[teedee]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
I'm only 15 and I stood on line at midnight to buy the album! :laugh: However, that is rare and I was thinking the same thing- no ten year old is going to buy it!


i think stevie was pointing out that people from age 10 -27 are the ones buying records, and cause they are young they arent gonna spend 25.oo from a group of 50 year olds. in other words if they had 25.oo it would go for a britney or justin cd. and she meant that older ppl have bills to pay and families to support, so a single cd would be best.

[BBALLGYPSY17]

WOW. That was incredible. More ways then one. The politics and the pull always dragged me back here. Let's talk a little chemistry...

I miss Chris, but with all due respect and depending on how you look at it, her absence doesn't hinder FM as much as it makes them a lot more raw, musically and otherwise. I'm still seeing two couples here. Two pairs of soulmates, interpret that however you'd like;)
Mick was never the 'third wheel', Chris was. She brought style, grace, and suddelty into the fold, but she's still understated, like John. When I look at the band visually I kind of divide it Stevie and Mick on one side and John and Chris on the other, dreamers v.s. realists. Lindsey's always in the middle and pulling more to the right with the realists despite how philosophical he is and because of the fact he compliments Stevie by nature.
But the 'married couple' bickering that John and Mick do is just as obvious and really makes me raise my eyebrows at the comment by John years back, "The only two people that haven't slept together are Lindsey and I, and there's still time for that":laugh: Though, again, Lindsey and John would make about as much sense as John and Chris did or that Mick and Stevie did because there's not that black and white.
Now MUSICALLY, my god do I feel like a twirp. I don't have the album yet, and the best I've done as a fan is see the concert this past summer at the Xcel Energy Center in Minnesota... BUT...I think it's about time I came back to worship:nod:

~alex~*...Bitch is back.

[ShamHy89]

I thought it was great for all of the aforementioned details. It was a wonderful look into the making of SYW. I do, however, agree that Stevie should stand up when she sings. I thought it was funny that "Sulamith" was included in the cast in the credits.

Shamus:)

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by stefan
No you didn't :laugh:

From the ten seconds we got to hear, I thought it was very Middle Eastern sounding and VERY different for La Nicks. I like it when she branches out. I think LB's production brought the sound back to the mainstream.

[strandinthewind]

Deanna -

ITA means "I totally agree" :cool:

[strandinthewind]

I thought it was a good production. I thought it showed LB's brilliance very effectively - that man can play some guitar!!!!

I also thought it showed La Nicks is not such a, to quote DH, "bubble headed bleached blond." She really was into the recording process and seemed to know alot about it. She also seemed very intent on acheiving her vision of how her things should sound.

[Gazza]

I could watch Lindsey just jam for ages... How much do we get to see of him and his guitar?

[joe]

i know someone probably posted this but.... "people my age aren't lying in the floor and worrying about what record they're going to buy tomorrow..."

it was so funny cause Stevie was really quiet when she was saying it. I thought she looked great too. it was a tad boring at times....i thought there was going to be more drama. But it was still good...Sometimes the clips ended too soon but whadda ya gonna do?

I think the pic that you guys are referring to as "Waddy" is NOT Waddy after all. I noticed that pic too. I'm almost positive that it is in fact a B/N concert pic of Stevie and Lindsey. I won't be able to post it cause i don't have it but i've see it around. Stevie had long straight hair parted in the middle, and is at her mic which is close to Lindsey.

It also makes sense that she would have this pic next to her. Why would she have a pic of Waddy and her? I mean it's possible but not logical.

[Livia]

WOW - WOW- WOW!! I loved it! SN is friggin' hilarious!!!

Someone mentioned that they wanted to see the kids singing on SYW- they DID show the girls on the commercial-free broadcast, but it was cut out of the following broadcast. So were a few other things - Stevie singing on Miranda and I think I Am Waiting as well - the part w/ Mick sitting in his car, saying that they had gone w/ Reprise, Stevie doing that funny pointing thing at Mick when they were on the couch, listening to Thrown Down, and couple other small tidbits.

Clarification - LB didn't say he was peeing - Marty Hom asked, "where's Lindsey?" and someone, either Mick or John said "he's peeing" and then you hear LB off in the distance saying "Not yet" and laughing. LOL

Some of my favorite quotes:

LB saying to SN - "Keep going, girl!" And for the record, I think they liked Silver Girl.

SN - "I pray to the commercial G-ds" LOL

SN - "They're not laying around on the floor, smoking dope, waiting to buy our new record." LOL

SN - "I love my songs - I love all my little words." (Also cut out of the broadcast w/ commercials) :-(

SN - "If we explode and blow up in timbers and die, at least the album will be done."

SN - "That sounds like John just fell off the stage." LOL

I also loved Stevie's Farrah bangs during rehearsal - and her dog barking at Mick during GYOW. And for you romantics, how 'bout LB kissing SN's hands right before they went onstage?? Gaaah!

I wished they would have showed a little bit of The Chain, but w/ the ending the way they did it, leaves everyone wanting more. So that's cool.

:nod:

I'm sure I'll think of some more later....

:wavey:

[BBALLGYPSY17]

Originally posted by joe

It also makes sense that she would have this pic next to her. Why would she have a pic of Waddy and her? I mean it's possible but not logical.

Waddy, correct me if I'm wrong, has BEEN there since B/N. So there would be a picture of B/N right there, and still have Waddy:laugh: :nod:

[clooney]

Wow, this thread is HUGE! I'll add a few things:

What I like most about the documentary is that everyone came off as real, normal people. Especially the phone conversation with Tony and the whole "pointing fingers" argument. It gave me a whole new perspective on them. I got to see them argue, cry, laugh... And they didn't seem phased by the cameras.

Some of my favorite moments were when about his car, Lindsey asked John "How fast does it go?", John's response was...a silent beat, then he said "55". Hahhahahaaa! Great comedic timing! And I love the kick Stevie got out of the singing fish. Reminded me of the big kick my Dad gets out of it! The same reaction.

Lindsey did a good job of diplomatically handling his suggestion that Stevie change the tense of her prose. I can see how it is a delicate situation to make such suggestions to artists.

I think that the backing vocals and harmonies that everyone has been commenting on, yes, probably are just initial rough drafts and that probably were changed or rerecorded later. I would like to have seen that metamorphosis from raw to greatness. Yes, as a barbershopper and community theater actor myself, they should sing standing up. But Lindsey and Stevie are so good at wrapping their voices around each others, I think they just know exactly what to do. One question I have and wish they had touched on is: Do they write out the harmony parts or do they just wing it? Making it up as they go along? I wish the documentary had shown how the songs are actually constructed and written. Books on The Beatles have always been very good at showing that.

The whole mixing controversy was interesting. I wish they had worked with Richard Dashut like they had for 30 years. Why they decided to take a whole new route seems odd to me. Where is Richard?????? I think his presence would have made the songs more layered and polished, ala Out of the Cradle.

Someone commented on Kristen being a snob. I didn't get that. They only showed her for a few seconds. Maybe she is just shy and/or concerned about the kiddos. Maybe she said a lot on camera, but it was edited out.

For the double album, maybe they could have done what Guns and Roses did and issue two albums simultaneouly, Use Your Illusion I and II, hahhahahahaa!

About VH1, yes the editing was a bit choppy, especially when they edited songs being performed. They had way too many shots of the house like The Real World or something and those goofy time elapsed shots. I also didn't like how their logo at the bottom right was blocking some of the informative words on the bottom of the screen. Their logo blocked out the information on the kids singing. And I loved seeing the kids and wanted to know more about them.

Excellent show, though. NEED MORE!!!!!!! (In a slow, low, monster-y voice) Hhahhahahaa!

Chris

[princessblair]

My friend watched the documentary to get up to speed for the Green Bay concert. She was upset that all of Lindsey's shirts were stretched out around the neck :) She also thought that he seemed to be fidgety. I thought it was fun to see them as they really are. I especially enjoyed Stevie's yorkies (I have one myself) jamming with the band. The dogs are everywhere! It reminds me how our dog follows my mom into the bathroom... Stevie laughing at the singing fish is priceless! My friends had one of those and they "skinned" it by removing most of the plastic on it, so basically it was a singing fish skeleton (I have weird friends). I've always wondered who the singing kids are on Say You Will...they showed John's daughter Molly, does anyone know who the others were? It was cute how Stevie was directing them :) I can't wait for another summer of shows!

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by BBALLGYPSY17
WOW. That was incredible. More ways then one. The politics and the pull always dragged me back here. Let's talk a little chemistry...

I miss Chris, but with all due respect and depending on how you look at it, her absence doesn't hinder FM as much as it makes them a lot more raw, musically and otherwise. I'm still seeing two couples here. Two pairs of soulmates, interpret that however you'd like;)
Mick was never the 'third wheel', Chris was. She brought style, grace, and suddelty into the fold, but she's still understated, like John. When I look at the band visually I kind of divide it Stevie and Mick on one side and John and Chris on the other, dreamers v.s. realists. Lindsey's always in the middle and pulling more to the right with the realists despite how philosophical he is and because of the fact he compliments Stevie by nature.
But the 'married couple' bickering that John and Mick do is just as obvious and really makes me raise my eyebrows at the comment by John years back, "The only two people that haven't slept together are Lindsey and I, and there's still time for that":laugh: Though, again, Lindsey and John would make about as much sense as John and Chris did or that Mick and Stevie did because there's not that black and white.
Now MUSICALLY, my god do I feel like a twirp. I don't have the album yet, and the best I've done as a fan is see the concert this past summer at the Xcel Energy Center in Minnesota... BUT...I think it's about time I came back to worship:nod:

~alex~*...Bitch is back.

Are you implying that Mick and John are lovers? :eek:

[BBALLGYPSY17]

Catch that did ya?:laugh: I merely said the chemistry is about that hot. Not B/Nisque or anything, but in it's own little way...And yet, One could never know what happened back in the day if they got smashed enough. Stranger things could happen;)

[EnchantedSLN]

Originally posted by princessblair
I've always wondered who the singing kids are on Say You Will...they showed John's daughter Molly, does anyone know who the others were?

The girl in the middle is Stevie's niece, Jessica. The other girl was a friend of hers named Maddy.

[The Tower]

Originally posted by Mike B
Also, what was that Lindsey said about only being paid royalties for 12 songs on an album? Huh? Is that a standard thing or a deal they had worked out or what?

In the old days (mid nineties and older), artists' album royalties were based on being paid for ten songs. If an artist released an album with twelve songs, they would be paid the same amount as if they released only ten songs. Why he said twelve, I don't know- maybe the recording industry upped in in the last couple of years. This is a standard policy throughout the record industry, although I have heard of some very rare exceptions.

This explains why most artists limited their releases to ten-ish songs. One could hold other songs that didn't make the cut (but were good enough to be released on an album) for future releases. How many times did Stevie/FM make demos of "Destiny", "Smile at You", "Think About It", etc. before they actually made it onto albums??

[strandinthewind]

Originally posted by The Tower
In the old days (mid nineties and older), artists' album royalties were based on being paid for ten songs. If an artist released an album with twelve songs, they would be paid the same amount as if they released only ten songs. Why he said twelve, I don't know- maybe the recording industry upped in in the last couple of years. This is a standard policy throughout the record industry, although I have heard of some very rare exceptions.

This explains why most artists limited their releases to ten-ish songs. One could hold other songs that didn't make the cut (but were good enough to be released on an album) for future releases. How many times did Stevie/FM make demos of "Destiny", "Smile at You", "Think About It", etc. before they actually made it onto albums??

Also, when SN put 13 on TISL - she said "no one puts 13 songs on a record."

[Livia]

The other thing about royalties is that the writer collects $ from radio airplay. The more songs you have on an album, the more singles you can release. And cha-ching$!$

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by WelshWitchPMD
I think it was about 10 minutes too short.

Yeah, I guess they wanted to get in all the advertising that was lost during the show.

I thought it was a good show, except it was a little too heavy on the whole double album controversy. I would have liked more studio footage of the actual making of the record and less Lindsey whining, (:laugh: ) but all in all, it was a well made documentary.


:wavey:

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by Livia
LB saying to SN - "Keep going, girl!" And for the record, I think they liked Silver Girl.

I know, and I was flabbergasted!! Lindsey seemed to really love it, how WEIRD.

The Farrah bangs had me in stitches. That must've been during their "growing out" phase,....we've all been there.

How about Stevie's outfits? She looked fabulous every day of recording and then when she finally goes on stage for their first show she has the black, Morticia Adams number on. It's like huh?!?!?!?

:wavey:

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
One that can be considered a "true" double ("true" in that the second disc doesnt merely contain alternate mixes, live tracks or video-clips), is Outkast's 'Speakerboxxx/The Love Below,' and the list price on that is $21.98... and a great chunk of the material included, can be considered filler (interludes, etc).

I've NEVER seen the Outkast album sell for $21.98, I think you're talking about the suggested retail price. Many, many single disc albums have the same suggested retail price, so I don't see the argument. These days, a double album is any album with an extra disc, IMO. The last Shania Twain album had two discs, as does the Outkast one. The argument that it's too expensive just doesn't hold water. I suspect that they thought a new double album from a classic rock abnd wouldn't do so hot, but I'll respectfully disagree; it would have sold the number of units.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I loved her outfits as well..she should try them out on stage...I loved the ones she wore in rehearsals too...she looked hot...and for all these months she was sporting these cool groovy like retro outfits...and goes on stage with the mrs. black dress herself

Chris

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by dissention
My favorite part of the whole show was when they worked on "Goodbye Baby," just Stevie and Lindsey. Lindsey was sitting in his chair, playing his guitar, and Stevie was sitting on the couch and singing.

I KNOW!!! And imagine how many times they've done that in their lives: only Stevie, Lindsey, his guitar. I mean, every since Buckingham Nicks!! I just got this incredible sense of time, how far they've come, and still, all it comes down to is that simple equation. It gives me chills!

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Shania Twains last album had one disc, and the second disc was the exact same songs as disc 1...one disc was pop mixes and one disc country mixes...

I think basically Stevie said it right...the MAJORITY of 40-50 somethings would not buy a $21 double album...my mom as an example : LOVES Fleetwood Mac, (of course she doesnt have to buy them cuz i have them)...if she went to the store, the fan she is, and saw a NEW CD by Fleetwood Mac priced at that...she wouldnt say I HAVE TO HAVE THIS...but if it was say $15 it wouldnt seem like the same type of indulgence...

You cant compare Fleetwood Mac to Outkast..Fleetwood Mac doesnt have the MTV and radio exposure Outkast has..I dunno I assume Outkast's album selling at regular price is because of the huge appeal to young audiences they do have...They sell more albums...they get all this FREE publicity (magazines, interviews etc) that the Mac doesnt get so much anymore...so it is logical that Fleetwood Mac and their label want to keep the cost down on their CD, because deep down they realize it wont make them ALL THAT MUCH money...just my thoughts

Chris

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Uhm... how did I miss that part?

Are we talking about her first day at the Bellagio House?
She played "Destiny Rules" (we hear the opening, before the vocals would kick in), "Say You Will," and "Silver Girl."

Throughout the rest of the doc, the only additional Stevie songs we hear being recorded/worked out are "Thrown Down," "Illume" and "Goodbye Baby."
Then we also get to hear some of "Everybody Finds Out" at Chris Lord-Alge's studio, and as they're rehearsing it.

But I didn't catch "Running Through The Garden" anywhere. :confused:

I'm going to have to watch it again and tell you where it is in there.:)

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally posted by dissention
I've NEVER seen the Outkast album sell for $21.98, I think you're talking about the suggested retail price. Many, many single disc albums have the same suggested retail price, so I don't see the argument. These days, a double album is any album with an extra disc, IMO. The last Shania Twain album had two discs, as does the Outkast one. The argument that it's too expensive just doesn't hold water. I suspect that they thought a new double album from a classic rock abnd wouldn't do so hot, but I'll respectfully disagree; it would have sold the number of units.

I agree. (Hey, whaddya know?!) :laugh:

I think the people who bought the album as it was released would have bought the double CD too. Mick was hopeful that the single disc would sell a couple million; I remember him implying that the double would sell 300,000-500,000, and that Lindsey was okay with that.

What is the sales total on SYW? Did it even go gold?

[wondergirl9847]

See, I didn't think she sounded the least bit sarcastic. Rather, she sounded absolutely sincere and concerned for his happiness.

I didn't mean that she sounded mean...she just had a playful sarcasm in her voice. Das all. :)

[BBALLGYPSY17]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
I didn't mean that she sounded mean...she just had a playful sarcasm in her voice. Das all. :)

And there would be no fun without that.. WOULD there?;) And on another note....


CHRISTY! :D

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Stevie's WTWCT? vocals were not Grammy worthy, I'll admit. But Lindsey's SYW vocals really made me cringe...

Yeah, but somehow they came out golden in the mix. Ah, the wonders of modern technology.

I loved Stevie's "Miranda" backing vocals--- her harmony makes that song.

[Merf]

Originally posted by cliffdweller
I KNOW!!! And imagine how many times they've done that in their lives: only Stevie, Lindsey, his guitar. I mean, every since Buckingham Nicks!! I just got this incredible sense of time, how far they've come, and still, all it comes down to is that simple equation. It gives me chills!

That was my favorite part as well. I loved how they showed the picture of the two of them in the studio while making the White album... and you hear Stevie's voice in the background and Lindsey's guitar. It really gives you such a sense of where they've been, where they are now, and where they are going as a musical duo. I thought, more than anything, this documentary brought everything full circle with them. Stevie once said that making this album and how the band is now, she and Lindsey are more like they were when they first joined Fleetwood Mac-- before things got so crazy and out of control. I thought adding that picture was a very poignant, sweet touch.

[hayley]

Originally posted by dissention
I've NEVER seen the Outkast album sell for $21.98, I think you're talking about the suggested retail price. Many, many single disc albums have the same suggested retail price, so I don't see the argument. These days, a double album is any album with an extra disc, IMO. The last Shania Twain album had two discs, as does the Outkast one. The argument that it's too expensive just doesn't hold water. I suspect that they thought a new double album from a classic rock abnd wouldn't do so hot, but I'll respectfully disagree; it would have sold the number of units.

Single disc albums NEVER retail for $21.98 unless they're some super-special fancy pants special edition. The standard price for a frontline title for most record companies (outside of UMVD) is $18.98, which has generally has a cost (before deals, co-op, etc) of around $12.00.

The general cost for a double disc album in today's climate is $24.98, with a cost of around $16. The Outkast album was made cheaper (and reflected in their royalties) due to their demographic's tendency to steal albums, let alone not wanting to spend $25 on a CD at all.

Shania Twain's CD should *not* be counted as a double disc, because it was two discs of the SAME material, with different mixes. A true double album costs more for a reason- there are twice as many songs, and TWICE the cost of recording an album. A CD with a bonus disc is simply NOT the same. A bonus disc has crap thrown onto it. Extra throw-away tracks, interviews, DVD content- all cheap.

They could've put out a double album that would've cost about $15.99 - 17.99 at retail, and they probably WOULD have sold the same amount of copies as they did with their single disc retail of $9.99-13.99, because the average FM buyer is not one whose purchase decisions are contingent on price.

Personally, I'm happy they didn't. Despite my desire as a fan to have as much material as possible, I feel that Say You Will is bloated, and agree with most critics who say that the album suffers as a result of its length. It's just too much. It's unnecessary. And despite Lindsey's pleas in the doc. that he'd be happy if it sold 300,000 copies if he's happy with the result and feels like he's grown as an artist- I don't buy it. Lindsey is FEEDING off the attention he's gained as the critical darling of FM right now, with the album and especially the attention he's receiving during the live shows.

Lindsey once released a great album that no one heard- and it crushed him. He, and the rest of the band, wanted a commercial success with this album.

I just feel like where they ended- smack in the middle between a single-disc record and a double disc record, with 18 tracks comprising the *longest single disc album physically possible* managed to be the one solution that didn't work for either of their diametrically opposite goals- the fight between commercial success and artistic freedom. I just feel like it was a compromise that managed to work for no one.

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Deanna -

ITA means "I totally agree" :cool:

Thanks...hahaha...I could not figure that one out to save my life...it was driving me nuts!! haha...so yeah..thanks for the clarification.

[Miranda]

Originally posted by hayley
I feel that Say You Will is bloated, and agree with most critics who say that the album suffers as a result of its length. It's just too much. It's unnecessary. And despite Lindsey's pleas in the doc. that he'd be happy if it sold 300,000 copies if he's happy with the result and feels like he's grown as an artist- I don't buy it...

Lindsey once released a great album that no one heard- and it crushed him. He, and the rest of the band, wanted a commercial success with this album.

I just feel like where they ended- ...
...
managed to be the one solution that didn't work for either of their diametrically opposite goals- the fight between commercial success and artistic freedom. I just feel like it was a compromise that managed to work for no one.

I couldn't agree more. My only other thought...what if they had put out a double but made one disc commercial and the other more daring? It could have helped. Maybe? Critics didn't like the bloat becasue it was disjointed. The songs were too different in style to hang together on a single disc, but a double could have grouped the singles together and put the heavy stuff on another disc.

As far as the doc, I was a little disappointed. It wasn't all that. Maybe I was expecting too much?

It was too choppy. Every time things started to heat up in the studio they cut to a sunset. What the hell was that? It was 90 mins. unedited so where's the beef? They could have shown a little more of the recording process--more songs. For something that was supposed to be a double album they only seemed to be working on the same few songs in the studio.

Not enough piss and vinegar either. You know they had a lot more heated debates than the ones shown. Two spots I liked a lot showed why Stevie and Lindsey aren't together. One was him telling her how to write. Whoa baby! You'd think he'd have learend by now that's a big no-no. It shows what a control freak he still is and how stubborn she is about her songs. I loved her comparing herself to Bob Dylan. Way to go girl! The other part I liked showed them fighting through their handlers. Ha! Your people are accusing my people...blah, blah! Sadly, that part probably shows the most realisitc view of the way the band operates and probably how it's been since just before Rumours. You love someone but can only talk to them through lawyers and managers, or through your music? Not a winning situation.

Overall, the enitre doc showed despite their mature years the people haven't changed much. Lindsey's still a big baby. If I can't have my way I'm going to take my songs and go. Whaaaa! Mick's still driven by the money and will do whatever it takes to cash in. No doubt Mick was 100% behind Lindsey in the beginning to get him on board just one more time....cha-ching... stroking Lindsey's big fragile ego until LB's work was mostly done and it came time to deliver the record. Then he does the 180 and leaves the man hanging. John was as droll as ever. He's a man of few words but when he talks it's worth listening. Too bad his best friend is such a big mouth. He ruined the only words John could get in edgewise. This man needs a new best friend.

As for Stevie, I thought she shined during the whole thing. She looked great, sounded great, and kept her head level when things could have gone down hill. She came off very well overall. I was just thinking...Stevie surely had veto over what was shown of her, but Lindsey supposedly had his hands all over this thing, right? Wasn't this project his baby? Wonder if that says anything? Lindsey showed himself as the spoiled brat he sometimes is but Stevie was almost on a pedestal. Hmmm?

[k115810]

Ok, folks. Here are my thoughts on the doc.

Overall, it was endlessly fascinating for FM fans. I could watch 10 hours of this kind of "in the studio" stuff. Stuff that stood out to me:

1) I find Lindsey very interesting (he's my favorite in the group). He's really very out of touch with reality. I thought that Mick's comment of "he's never had a 2 bedroom house" hit the nail right on the head. Lindsey has either been comfortable or rich his entire life. He's never suffered for his art. If Say You Will was never released, Lindsey could sit back on songwriting royalties for the rest of his life and live very well. Mick doesn't have the monthly royalty checks coming in, and I wonder how uncomfortable those "art versus commerce" conversations are between Lindsey and Mick? Lindsey also speaks like someone who's been in a lot of therapy.

2) Stevie was not what I expected at all. She was a lot more unbending and a lot more of a "diva" than I expected. I always assumed that Lindsey was really the diva and that Stevie was more motherly and nurturing, but I thought the documentary showed them both to be pretty stubborn. When Lindsey was offerering lyrical suggestions to Stevie she was convinced from the first second that she would ignore whatever suggestion he gave.

3) Ok...this may start a controversy...but I would SWEAR that Stevie's face was digitally smoothed. There were a couple of close-ups early on that looked very soft compared to the level of detail that you would see in John or Lindsey's faces. If you pay attention to Stevie's close-ups, I think you will agree with me that her face has been smoothed in post-production. If this is true, it would be very disappointing to me. First, because it runs contrary to the very point of a documentary, and second because Stevie looks great for her age, and shouldn't try to hide the way she looks. She has nothing to be ashamed of.

4) Even though I knew a bit about the album from all of the articles and interviews, the documentary really demonstrated that this is not a Fleetwood Mac record by any stretch of the imagination. It's really a Lindsey album and a Stevie album combined. Can you really call a Lindsey song a Fleetwood Mac song if he dusts off a solo track and has Stevie put down some harmonies?

Just my initial impressions.

-Matt

[strandinthewind]

I am unsure if they digitally smoothed her face. I think a better explanation from a cost benefit point of view is Stevie was wearing studio make up everyday and was filmed with great lighting and perhaps through gauze or with an oil immersed lens. Mick and the boys do not care how they look. La Nicks does, and rightfully so as she is beautiful even without the enhancing studio magic!!! :cool:

[Miranda]

Originally posted by k115810
Ok, folks. Here are my thoughts on the doc.

Overall, it was endlessly fascinating for FM fans. I could watch 10 hours of this kind of "in the studio" stuff. Stuff that stood out to me:

1) I find Lindsey very interesting (he's my favorite in the group). He's really very out of touch with reality. I thought that Mick's comment of "he's never had a 2 bedroom house" hit the nail right on the head. Lindsey has either been comfortable or rich his entire life. He's never suffered for his art. If Say You Will was never released, Lindsey could sit back on songwriting royalties for the rest of his life and live very well. Mick doesn't have the monthly royalty checks coming in, and I wonder how uncomfortable those "art versus commerce" conversations are between Lindsey and Mick? Lindsey also speaks like someone who's been in a lot of therapy.

2) Stevie was not what I expected at all. She was a lot more unbending and a lot more of a "diva" than I expected. I always assumed that Lindsey was really the diva and that Stevie was more motherly and nurturing, but I thought the documentary showed them both to be pretty stubborn. When Lindsey was offerering lyrical suggestions to Stevie she was convinced from the first second that she would ignore whatever suggestion he gave.

3) Ok...this may start a controversy...but I would SWEAR that Stevie's face was digitally smoothed. There were a couple of close-ups early on that looked very soft compared to the level of detail that you would see in John or Lindsey's faces. If you pay attention to Stevie's close-ups, I think you will agree with me that her face has been smoothed in post-production. If this is true, it would be very disappointing to me. First, because it runs contrary to the very point of a documentary, and second because Stevie looks great for her age, and shouldn't try to hide the way she looks. She has nothing to be ashamed of.

4) Even though I knew a bit about the album from all of the articles and interviews, the documentary really demonstrated that this is not a Fleetwood Mac record by any stretch of the imagination. It's really a Lindsey album and a Stevie album combined. Can you really call a Lindsey song a Fleetwood Mac song if he dusts off a solo track and has Stevie put down some harmonies?

Just my initial impressions.

-Matt

Good take on it! You have some excellent observations, Matt. :nod:

[rhiannon1119]

I loved it! I really enjoyed the whole thing!

:) Michelle

[madformac]

Sounds like it was an interesting documentary.. Guess we will see it at some point in the UK... :nod:

Anyway, a couple of things I'm gonna mention from what I've read..

Firstly it seems there is not enough of John in the show which is a shame, he has that wonderful sarcastic humour that England is known for and I could listen to him talk all day long, great chap..

Secondly, Yes LB drives a very nice Mercedes but it's relative to his status. Anybody complaining about it really should take a reality check. To us it may seem expensive but Lindsey could buy one and have a fair bit of change in his pocket from one nights work entertaining us. Spending $15 on a CD to someone in a third world country would seem a gross indulgence I'm sure, so lighten up...

I didn't realise owning a Mercedes was seen as a luxury in the States, there are far too many on the roads in the UK! :laugh:

Now, what they need to do is this (Mick are you listening?)

Take a bit of advice from the Rolling Stones and release a 4 DVD set with an extended version of the documentary plus a large show from the first American leg, also a European arena show (I'm thinking Earls Court 30th November :D ) and a gig from the sheds tour...... Sell it for $60 and everyone is a winner.... :nod:

:wavey: :wavey:

[wondergirl9847]

(I'm thinking Earls Court 30th November)

AMEN!!! LOL

No, John wasn't on it that much, but when he WAS onscreen, he had some terrific stuff to say!! Talking about Christine not wanting to be there and telling Mick to basically, shut up. LMAO!! He pretty much explained why he wasn't there much, he cannot STAND to listen to the songs being played 5 million times over and over. (Pun intended. LOL) He gets bored if he can't play his bass.

I agree with the stupid argument of the Mercedes. If he had been driving say..a Hummer or something outrageous like that...I would have been all...WTH? LOL He's never said he didn't like nice things and wanted to live like a hobo. :laugh:

[Les]

I'm glad this came out. I thought if offered a perspective on everybody's point of view, which is what a documentary ought to do.

I'm just happy that John spoke. Granted it wasn't tons, but I've been missing John since he doesn't seem to talk to the press anymore.

[madformac]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847

I agree with the stupid argument of the Mercedes. If he had been driving say..a Hummer or something outrageous like that...I would have been all...WTH? LOL He's never said he didn't like nice things and wanted to live like a hobo. :laugh:

Yeah,

I disagree with the notion of the poor little rich kid.. Lindsey is the tortured soul muliti million selling artist, blah blah blah, why feel sorry for him right?

Well, money sometimes has nothing to do with it, As Carne Vaca mentioned with the Kurt Cobain reference.

Then again sometimes money has a lot to account for... Take Michael Jackson's problems.. Would he be in the situation he is in right now without the wealth? Maybe, maybe not.....

Can excesses of money and wealth twist your perceptions of reality?

I'm not a multi millionaire rock star so I can't answer that one! :laugh:

[BBALLGYPSY17]

Originally posted by madformac
Then again sometimes money has a lot to account for... Take Michael Jackson's problems.. Would he be in the situation he is in right now without the wealth? Maybe, maybe not.....



*Has weird vision of Lindsey standing next to the bones of the elephant man....cringes*:laugh:

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
These days, a double album is any album with an extra disc, IMO. The last Shania Twain album had two discs, as does the Outkast one.Again, that Shania Twain double-disc consisted of radio mixes, etc.
It wasn't a case of 12 completely different songs... a "true" double album. Not just an album with a bonus disc.

And that's what I was referring to. :)

[AliP]

Originally posted by k115810
Ok, folks. Here are my thoughts on the doc.



3) Ok...this may start a controversy...but I would SWEAR that Stevie's face was digitally smoothed. There were a couple of close-ups early on that looked very soft compared to the level of detail that you would see in John or Lindsey's faces. If you pay attention to Stevie's close-ups, I think you will agree with me that her face has been smoothed in post-production. If this is true, it would be very disappointing to me. First, because it runs contrary to the very point of a documentary, and second because Stevie looks great for her age, and shouldn't try to hide the way she looks. She has nothing to be ashamed of.



I agree. I thought Stevie's skin looked very smooth. If it was the makeup or the post production, something was done. I remember when I was able to shake her hand during Edge of Seventeen one time and I remember being kinda suprised because I could see the wrinkles on her face especially when she was smiling. I had never seen her face like that before. Not that there is anything wrong with it - she is obviously a beautiful woman - wrinkles or not she always looks good. :)

[Nixxxed]

During the tour rehearsals section toward the end, when the camera panned over all the song namecards thumb-tacked to the board, they did a close-up on the word "Destiny". That was all the card said...

Of course, I immediately assumed it was "Destiny Rules", but as I remember that was the only one-word card -- all the others, even though abbreviated, represented the full name of the song.

Any chance they could have been rehearsing "Destiny" from Street Angel? Given all the other songs that seemed to have been dropped for the same-ole, same-ole setlist, I was just wondering if anyone else was wondering...

As for the documentary itself, I loved the subject matter, but HATED most of the editing. Why couldn't they have put the song titles and/or dates at the bottom of the screen as they were recording them? Maybe this was aimed specifically at Mac fans who already know, but from an album-marketing perspective wouldn't you want people watching who aren't that familiar to say, "Gee, I wonder if that cool song "Illume" or "Miranda" made it onto the album??? Maybe I'll go to the record store and see..."

And what a better time to have a commercial about the remasters, the upcoming tour, or even the web site and fan club (even though I wisely didn't join...). Did I just miss them, or were there any at all? (I didn't watch the re-broadcast.)

[hayley]

Originally posted by Nixxxed
During the tour rehearsals section toward the end, when the camera panned over all the song namecards thumb-tacked to the board, they did a close-up on the word "Destiny". That was all the card said...

Of course, I immediately assumed it was "Destiny Rules", but as I remember that was the only one-word card -- all the others, even though abbreviated, represented the full name of the song.

Any chance they could have been rehearsing "Destiny" from Street Angel? Given all the other songs that seemed to have been dropped for the same-ole, same-ole setlist, I was just wondering if anyone else was wondering...

Uh, no way would they play 'Destiny.' If I remember correctly, the Destiny on the card was positioned right where they played it in the set in Columbus, dropped right after.

[4Buck]

Secondly, Yes LB drives a very nice Mercedes but it's relative to his status. Anybody complaining about it really should take a reality check. To us it may seem expensive but Lindsey could buy one and have a fair bit of change in his pocket from one nights work entertaining us. Spending $15 on a CD to someone in a third world country would seem a gross indulgence I'm sure, so lighten up...

I didn't realise owning a Mercedes was seen as a luxury in the States, there are far too many on the roads in the UK!

....Exactly!

Also, Buckingham saved his money he made in his 20s, he said in a 1992 interview. When you save copious quanitities at an early age, it grows exponentially. And both Buckingham's affluent parents passed away, leaving him some. In essence, he probably never has to work again. And he still can afford a new mansion with cabanas in Bel Air, a luxury car and send children off to prestigious colleges. But he loves his work and loves touring now that the rest of the band has "sobered up"!

"I'll eat hundreds of thousands....I'll eat a *@ck of a lot of money to be able to put out something like I want to put out.......Lindsey Buckingham Destiny Rules Documentary

.....If I'm perceived as the troublemaker (he told John), so be it, why should it be any different now :lol:" Lindsey Buckingham, Destiny Rules Documentary

And what a good documentary it was!!!

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I disagree about her face being smoothed in post production...there were times when she had very little makeup...and her age was noticable...although it did not bother me

If she was really concerned about her looks she would have put some eye makeup on as well, like she does when shes out and about...I was hoping (Secretively) to FINALLY see Stevie's backside in those pants without the shirt over it...lol..is that weird?

She's very very careful about hiding her parts she is not comfortable with...but I think overall it was very real, and we saw Stevie for once just being herself and normal...I loved her outfits, and I think she looked great, but not all made up

Chris

[jadegypsy]

whats the deal with a mercedes, my mom drives one and we are not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. Although I do remember in Jr. High having to live with the unfortunate name "mercedes girl" just because we lived in the land of the pick-up truck. For the most part mercedes are pretty common in CA. In fact i was surprised he wasn't driving a fancier car (think porsch, corevett...) I loved Johns, "it goes 55" in respose to Lindseys "does it (Johns porsche) go fast. It goes alot fast then 55 john:)

[strandinthewind]

I seem to remember there is a great view of that part of her when they are jamming to the ending of GYOW at the tour rehearsal. Her a$$ looked good to me, esp. considering she was 54 years old at the time!!!! I still maintain she is one of the most beautiful people I have ever seen - she positively glows :cool:

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Yes that part during GYOW was nice..lol..put the shirt was still hanging down just enough to cover lol

Chris

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Originally posted by GypsySorcerer
I agree. (Hey, whaddya know?!) :laugh:

I think the people who bought the album as it was released would have bought the double CD too. Mick was hopeful that the single disc would sell a couple million; I remember him implying that the double would sell 300,000-500,000, and that Lindsey was okay with that.

What is the sales total on SYW? Did it even go gold?

Yes it did go GOLD...it has sold Around 850,000 copies...still not that much better than 300,000 really tho

Chris

[strandinthewind]

Once again, I do not think anyone has aproblem with LB driving whatever car he wants to drive or with him in general spending his money in whatever fashion he wants. I think people, and certainly I, were pointing out LB's wanting to shy away from the mainstream, commercial, money making aspect of FM and instead push the envelope and make what most would consider non-commercial, non-money making music. Yet, he lives in a world of comfort (Mercedes S Class ($80,000 +), a new house in Bel Air where his old one stood complete with a studio (my guess is $5 million), he records a record in a rental house in Bel Air (my guess is $1 million in rent and structual changes from the equipment), takes a year to make a record, charges $125 for 70% of the best seats in the house, travels in a private 727, stays only in suites, flies his family in and out probably on private planes as well (about $15,000 each way on average), etc. These are all the spoils of making a highly commercial record, which he professes opposition to doing and has been professing this same opposition since the making of Tusk :laugh: The reality is that if he did not make now and had not made then highly commercial records, all of these luxurious recording and touring perks would not be there unless he paid for them personally.

Again, I think its great he can have these things - I am all for it and do not begrudge him in the slightest. I just think it is interesting that he bucks ( :cool : ) the hand that feeds them to him which is commerical success. He could easily have relased GOS on the net or with a smaller label.

But, to add fuel to the fire - maybe the reason he did not was that he wanted to work with and closer to Stevie again :eek: :cool: :wavey:

[estranged4life]

Originally posted by clooney
I wish the documentary had shown how the songs are actually constructed and written. Books on The Beatles have always been very good at showing that.

For the double album, maybe they could have done what Guns and Roses did and issue two albums simultaneouly, Use Your Illusion I and II, hahhahahahaa!

Chris

Oh there is more than books that show how the Beatles constructed their songs (ie-"Day By Day" 76 cd set that shows the disaster that was the "Get Back" film sessions...Btw, I was listening to these sessions last nite when I heard someone asking "What's that?" which was received with a surprising "The new Fleetwood Mac album"...)


Being a big Guns N'Roses fan (I used to be a moderator on a rather large GN'R N.G. awhile back) I thought the UYI releases would have been much better if the filler material was reduced and the remaining tracks were compilated into one single disc.

Brian j.

[hayley]

Originally posted by ShangriLaTroubl
Yes it did go GOLD...it has sold Around 850,000 copies...still not that much better than 300,000 really tho

Chris

810,827 to be exact

Curious to see if there's a decent spike with next Wednesday's numbers (the Soundscan week ends on Saturday, reported on Wednesday).

[Livia]

If LB really want to make some dough, why doesn't he release Buckingham/Nicks on CD??? I bet THAT would sell quadruple the copies of SYW, at least.

:nod:

[4Buck]

Lindsey sounded GREAT during World Turning!!

I agree!

This was my favorite clip! Him sitting alone with the mic across from Stevie and the backups.... Buckingham was the ambitious, driving force right through the documentary.. but at the end of the tour practice one night (after he finished WORLD TURNING) Nicks wanted to rehearse another set for the tour. He sexily and sweetly said he was too tired and she didn’t push him…..I liked that.....

I loved this documentary!

[Keith]

I haven't listened to Say You Will much lately - mainly a cut here or a cut there, but after watching last night's doc.. i put the dvd-audio in and I'm on my second listen.. and I have to say.. Lindsey does keep Fleetwood Mac an interesting band..

I'm a huge.. yes, a huge Stevie Nicks fan, but it was Lindsey that made me nod a few times.. i think to him it is about the music and, as he at times seemed anxious, he truly is an artist first. He gets some newly acquired recognition and admiration from me.. I've always loved his music, but I never really felt how important it is to him until I viewed the doc. He gives Fleetwood Mac their funk..

I have to say I roll my eyes when anyone in the band talks about the commercial aspect of the CD and making money so they can support their families. I mean, how much money does this band need?? they should be able to live off what they made for the Dance reunion tour, let alone the $$ from the current tour.. i guess their is a high price for their luxury.. and I do love them. They just seem to go through a lot of money.. :-)

Stevie was precious last night.. and beautiful.. Whether or not she was touched up to look better, I don't know.. btw, don't most women wear make-up to bring out their features?? .. ah.. she was so beautiful..

It's so good to have something new from the favorite band.. and still to come are the remastered cds and tour.. I had put them on the shelf, and it's good to have the Mac back into my stereo.. I sorely missed them.

"smellin' nag champra..."

[golddustwoman77]

I just loved the documentary! :cool: It really showed them as human and quite funny. There were so many cute parts and amusing quotes! :D Also, it made me appreciate the recording process even more. Hopefully, there will be a DVD that will have more footage. We can pray anyway. I would love to see the arguements about the track list and running order! :laugh: I think it was well done, and I really, really enjoyed it!

P.S. We need a still frame picture of Lindsey at the photo shoot.....if you know what I mean! ;) That would be a popular item with many people on here. :laugh:

:wavey: :wavey: :wavey:

[diamondsnake]

Question- did they actually live in that house or did they each have their own places to go home to each night?

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by dissention
Lindsey rolled his eyes very secretly. You're right, they seemed to think it was a real dog.

Huh? Do you think all that gushing they did after it was insincere? It sounded like they thought it was absolutely terrific.

Since I personally think Silver Girl is incredibly lame, I was expecting polite "ahem, that's nice." Instead I got "Keep writing songs like that and we'll have a double album! You go, girl!" etc. I may WISH Lindsey had somehow indicated that he felt the same way I do about it, lol, but I would have to say he certianly did NOT.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847


Her going "We want all of Lindsey's dreams to come true..."...she sounded sarcastic. LOL




I thought she sounded totally sincere. I found it very touching.

[4Buck]

Nicks WAS being sincere......

P.S. We need a still frame picture of Lindsey at the photo shoot.....if you know what I mean! That would be a popular item with many people on here.

Yes. I missed the "adjustments" everyone was talking about. I'll have to watch it one more time! Loved Buckingham's unbuttoned shirt for the photo session, though.....and his unbuttoned shirt singing WORLD TURNING!

And it was so touching when he kissed each of Nicks' hands, as to wish her good luck before they went on stage.
I think she feels protected by him.....It's cute when they walk on stage holding hands.......

[wondergirl9847]

I did not see him roll his eyes. He and the others did seem okay with it and yeah, he said "Keep making songs like that and we'll have a double album." after they played it. I think it's a pretty weak song from Miss Stevie, but that's JMO.

[sodascouts]

Originally posted by k115810
Lindsey has either been comfortable or rich his entire life. He's never suffered for his art. If Say You Will was never released, Lindsey could sit back on songwriting royalties for the rest of his life and live very well.

I see what you're saying, but Lindsey did have a couple of lean years there during the BN days. And as for living very well on royalties - didn't you hear him worriedly talking about the costs of having a family and building a new house?

Lindsey also speaks like someone who's been in a lot of therapy.

LOL! I noticed that too!

[wondergirl9847]

Lindsey also speaks like someone who's been in a lot of therapy.

Yeppers. He did speak to John about many therapists will tell you that helping others while helping yourself was a good thing. It was during his "Why should things be any different...HA!" LMAO!! When he went "HA!"...I died!! I had seen that part before, but it's just hysterical....the look on his face. BWAH!!

[Enchanted58]

Good lord people, I was not commenting on the fact that LB drove a very expensive car - I could care less how much the car cost. It was the BRAND of car I was surprised at!! I honestly thought he'd be in a Volvo, don't know why!

Eileen

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by madformac
Secondly, Yes LB drives a very nice Mercedes but it's relative to his status. Anybody complaining about it really should take a reality check. To us it may seem expensive but Lindsey could buy one and have a fair bit of change in his pocket from one nights work entertaining us. Spending $15 on a CD to someone in a third world country would seem a gross indulgence I'm sure, so lighten up...

I didn't realise owning a Mercedes was seen as a luxury in the States, there are far too many on the roads in the UK! :laugh:


I don't begrudge LB his Mercedes. It's just over here those cars are a sort of status symbol that I thought Lindsey would not be into. Surprise!

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Once again, I do not think anyone has aproblem with LB driving whatever car he wants to drive or with him in general spending his money in whatever fashion he wants. I think people, and certainly I, were pointing out LB's wanting to shy away from the mainstream, commercial, money making aspect of FM and instead push the envelope and make what most would consider non-commercial, non-money making music. Yet, he lives in a world of comfort (Mercedes S Class ($80,000 +), a new house in Bel Air where his old one stood complete with a studio (my guess is $5 million), he records a record in a rental house in Bel Air (my guess is $1 million in rent and structual changes from the equipment), takes a year to make a record, charges $125 for 70% of the best seats in the house, travels in a private 727, stays only in suites, flies his family in and out probably on private planes as well (about $15,000 each way on average), etc. These are all the spoils of making a highly commercial record, which he professes opposition to doing and has been professing this same opposition since the making of Tusk :laugh: The reality is that if he did not make now and had not made then highly commercial records, all of these luxurious recording and touring perks would not be there unless he paid for them personally.

Again, I think its great he can have these things - I am all for it and do not begrudge him in the slightest. I just think it is interesting that he bucks ( :cool : ) the hand that feeds them to him which is commerical success. He could easily have relased GOS on the net or with a smaller label.



Agreed. That was exactly my point. I was merely surprised that he was driving a Mercedes. That's all folks.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Enchanted58
Good lord people, I was not commenting on the fact that LB drove a very expensive car - I could care less how much the car cost. It was the BRAND of car I was surprised at!! I honestly thought he'd be in a Volvo, don't know why!

Eileen

LOL!:laugh:

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Uhm... how did I miss that part?

Are we talking about her first day at the Bellagio House?
She played "Destiny Rules" (we hear the opening, before the vocals would kick in), "Say You Will," and "Silver Girl."



I just listened to it again and yes the scene you are talking about is the right one. However I think that first song is RTTG.:)

[dissention]

Originally posted by k115810
3) Ok...this may start a controversy...but I would SWEAR that Stevie's face was digitally smoothed. There were a couple of close-ups early on that looked very soft compared to the level of detail that you would see in John or Lindsey's faces. If you pay attention to Stevie's close-ups, I think you will agree with me that her face has been smoothed in post-production. If this is true, it would be very disappointing to me. First, because it runs contrary to the very point of a documentary, and second because Stevie looks great for her age, and shouldn't try to hide the way she looks. She has nothing to be ashamed of.

I posted the same sentiment a couple of months ago and predicted that her face would be touched-up on the doc and on the Boston show, and it didn't go over very well. :laugh: They smoothed her out on The Dance, too.

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by joe

I think the pic that you guys are referring to as "Waddy" is NOT Waddy after all. I noticed that pic too. I'm almost positive that it is in fact a B/N concert pic of Stevie and Lindsey. I won't be able to post it cause i don't have it but i've see it around. Stevie had long straight hair parted in the middle, and is at her mic which is close to Lindsey.

It also makes sense that she would have this pic next to her. Why would she have a pic of Waddy and her? I mean it's possible but not logical.

You could be right. It's in the background for a good long while and the hair looks like Waddy's to me. How many people have hair like that?

[Brad]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
You could be right. It's in the background for a good long while and the hair looks like Waddy's to me. How many people have hair like that?

Take a look at buckinghamnicks.net. (Nancy, I hope you don't mind me referring to your site here!) In the Buckingham/Nicks section under photos, page 1, row 5, last pic in the row. (Sorry, still haven't figured out how to attach pics). It looked kind of like this to me only with S&L flipped in position. Anyone else think this might have been it?

Brad

[gldstwmn]

Doesn't look like it to me.:)

[4Buck]

"people my age aren't lying in the floor and worrying about what record they're going to buy tomorrow..."

This is actually what Nicks said in the documentary":

"We think all these people that are our age are just going to come out of the wall and say, "oh, I'm just going to start buying music again.....And in fact, they're not laying around on the floor smoking dope thinking about what their next record they're going to buy is.

They're trying to deal with delinquent children.... They're trying to learn how to pay the rent next month or how to pay for their house and how to put their kids through college....."


Here's more from Nicks:

"Everybody is nervous to say anything because nobody wants to rock the boat....and nobody wants to hurt Lindsey's feelings and we LOVE Lindsey and we want him to have everything he wants and all his dreams to come true, but this is not about art..."

[4Buck]

Stevie Nicks surely has a deadpan personality---if a personality at all.

But Lindsey Buckingham appeared "up."

I loved the way the group got along in this documentary! :)

[4Buck]

And Lindsey Buckingham on royalties:

"It was really just up to me to take the hit in terms of a certain amount of royalties, because you only get paid to up to twelve songs. So if we were to have 20, I'd only get paid maybe on two or three. You know everyone was extremely surprised that I was willing to do that...."

I love the SAY YOU WILL cd! :)

[golden braid]

Originally posted by dissention
I posted the same sentiment a couple of months ago and predicted that her face would be touched-up on the doc and on the Boston show, and it didn't go over very well. :laugh: They smoothed her out on The Dance, too.

I didn't really want to mention it but I agree. She looks great no matter what but with all of the close ups on Destiny Rules she does look like she has been smoothed out and diffused especially when you compare her to Lindsey and the others. The rest of the band looks really clear compared to Stevie.

[blinker12]

I caught the version with commercials, unfortunately, so I missed a few things. I just wanted to add to what people have already said:

About Stevie's face being touched up. I take this as a given. I mean, she's always been insecure about how she appears on film _ look at the additional photography done for the "Red Rocks" and "Tango" videos. This documentary is no exception. You can see in certain parts that her face looks "overexposed" (smoothed) while everyone else's looks normal. And I remember someone reporting rumours a while back that the documentary's broadcast had been delayed because Stevie was unhappy with how she looked and wanted the footage retouched.
It doesn't bother me much, but I do think it's unnecessary. No one
expects her to look 30 anymore!

The documentary solidified my belief that the album is WAY overproduced. I liked each of Stevie's "Phoenix Four" songs in DEMO form (as heard in the doc) better than I do on the album. Both the "Silver Girl" and "Destiny Rules" demos sounded scrappier and more vital than the finished versions. I think Lindsey, as a producer, has become too overwrought in his approach _ increasingly so since the mid-1980s.

I LOVED the exchange between Stevie and Lindsey about the "Thrown Down" lyrics. How many people these days would have the nerve to challenge Stevie on something like that? For the record, I think he was right... Stevie came across looking plain stubborn here. She didn't offer any argument apart from variations on "That's just the way I want it."

As much as I don't particulary like Mick, his observations are often spot-on. I liked his debunking of Lindsey's "starving artist" bit, and also his analysis of how Stevie was inspired to write a handful of disciplined new songs once she saw Lindsey's dedication to the project.

[sparky]

Originally posted by dissention
They smoothed her out on The Dance, too.

I sure noticed this ! She looked amazing - a combination of lighting (about which she knows a lot), very expensive makeup that basically reflects light, and a filter on the lens. HOWEVER, in the closeup shots of GB, her profile is perfect, her jaw tight, she looks beautiful. Everyone in the room with me was saying "Someone got a little 'refresher' work done!"
I don't know either way. Don't care.
God bless her, she is still one the most beautiful women on earth.

On another note, what does that assistant of hers DO ? Other than sit around in a chair reading a book ? She's like Jai on Queer Eye. Seemingly without purpose !

[Merf]

Originally posted by 4Buck
Stevie Nicks surely has a deadpan personality---if a personality at all.


:rolleyes:

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by blinker12
It doesn't bother me much, but I do think it's unnecessary. No one expects her to look 30 anymore!I don't think it's necessary either, as candid shots of her have proven that she looks gorgeous with little makeup, and without benefit of re-touching... but she's sort of in that "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

If they re-touch her appearance, she gets needled for being vain or insecure... and if she doesn't, she sets herself up to get criticized for looking tired, or old, or God knows what else.

At any rate, i don't believe her appearance was re-touched throughout the entire documentary... only certain spots.
For instance, she looks exactly the same in several of the recording scenes, as she does on the enchanced clips from the 'Say You Will' disc, and from the official site.

[clooney]

Originally posted by estranged4life
Oh there is more than books that show how the Beatles constructed their songs (ie-"Day By Day" 76 cd set that shows the disaster that was the "Get Back" film sessions...Btw, I was listening to these sessions last nite when I heard someone asking "What's that?" which was received with a surprising "The new Fleetwood Mac album"...)


Being a big Guns N'Roses fan (I used to be a moderator on a rather large GN'R N.G. awhile back) I thought the UYI releases would have been much better if the filler material was reduced and the remaining tracks were compilated into one single disc.

Brian j.


I really enjoy the technical aspects of song construction and recording. We learn what goes into creating a song, the talents of the songwriters, and how ideas for little sounds get added in. I would love to see more of that on say a DVD release of the documentary.

Really?! The Beatles commented on a FM album?

The reason I brought up Guns and Roses was that I recently saw an old Saturday Night Live skit where a girl was going out to buy Use Your Illusions 126 and UYI 85! Hahahahahaha! She had an arm full of cds!!!!

Chris

[cliffdweller]

Originally posted by 4Buck
I agree!

This was my favorite clip! Him sitting alone with the mic across from Stevie and the backups.... Buckingham was the ambitious, driving force right through the documentary.. but at the end of the tour practice one night (after he finished WORLD TURNING) Nicks wanted to rehearse another set for the tour. He sexily and sweetly said he was too tired and she didn’t push him…..I liked that.....

I loved this documentary!

As I recall, he was really spasing out and twitching during that song. It was actually kind of funny.

I loved it when he talked about sampling the lead vocals on WT and Come, that was hilarious!

[gldstwmn]

Originally posted by Merf
:rolleyes:

Ignore function.:)

[skcin]

I thought it was great. Thank goodness I taped the commercial-free one, I'd be upset if I missed the things you guys said were cut for the later show.
I was really surprised to see the footage from the photo shoot, I loved it! They all looked wonderful, and Stevie is breathtaking (editing/makeup/work done or not!)
I wish they showed more of them working on LB's tunes, but I guess it makes sense since they were pretty much done except for Stevie's harmonies.

BTW, Sara Bella Donna was also in the credits, lol!

Could anyone make out what else was posted in the setlist? I tried to pause, but it was too blurry & writing too small. I did see Destiny (Rules), EFO, Illume, Monday Morning, but that's about it as far as differences go.

It seemed to me during the rehearsal that Stevie didn't like the way "...she's done it a thousand times" & "when love starts out in the darkness..." flowed together live - she would either have to sing "times" & "when" really close together, or not sing "times" since those lyrics practically overlap on the CD.

I was hoping for some footage of the LA rehearsal, too, but oh well! Oh, and I think that was a live pic of her & Waddy.

Paula

[wondergirl9847]

Originally posted by skcin
Oh, and I think that was a live pic of her & Waddy.

I agree.

Also, about EFO, yeah, it's difficult to sing that overlapping part. LOL It sounded wierd to me. I don't see her singing it on the next leg. :(

[Merf]

Originally posted by gldstwmn
Ignore function.:)

:laugh: Oh, Chris, if it were only that easy! :laugh:

[stefan]

From what I have seen so far (thanks for the first clips from burnish and CO) the clip where the WB people come to the studio is the most interesting. I`d like to see more from that day and watch their reaction and I'd like to see their reaction to Red rover or Silver girl (regarded as two poles here :laugh:.
The bearded guy with the long hair- Jeff Ayeroff- nodding to "Thrown down" and trying to lighten up the tension the meeting obviously had. LB laying back while Peacekeeper is playing- you can tell he was feeling uncomfortable that day.
Unfortunately due to audio problems I cannot understand everything during that clip. What was the reason this certain "Tom" LB speaks about wasn't involved? What were they answering? I heard about the staff change at Warners but did we get any further info here? And right after they listened to SYW the song and they made fun about the commercial god thing somebody says "How do you figure out etc"
I don't get the question and the answer, which comes after a short break but it is obviously about how they feel about the album/the songs. Can anyone tell me more about that? :wavey:

[David]

Originally posted by blinker12
The documentary solidified my belief that the album is WAY overproduced. I liked each of Stevie's "Phoenix Four" songs in DEMO form (as heard in the doc) better than I do on the album. Both the "Silver Girl" and "Destiny Rules" demos sounded scrappier and more vital than the finished versions. I think Lindsey, as a producer, has become too overwrought in his approach _ increasingly so since the mid-1980s.Agreed. I was really surprised to hear such vigorous tunes in demo form. Stevie & her musician friends like Al Ortiz did a great job on those songs. I continually thought, "What the hell happened?" It's very unusual for me to think of Fleetwood Mac pussing up her beautiful songs.

I LOVED the exchange between Stevie and Lindsey about the "Thrown Down" lyrics. How many people these days would have the nerve to challenge Stevie on something like that? For the record, I think he was right... Stevie came across looking plain stubborn here. She didn't offer any argument apart from variations on "That's just the way I want it."I've never heard any poet -- I would say from the 10th century A.D. to the present -- publicly proclaim himself (or herself) a poet as much as Stevie has. Someone really ought to tell her that it comes across as a bit smug, really. There's no reason for a genuine poet to throw that word around quite so frequently; the greatest poets wouldn't stoop to the level of pointing out the obvious, while the would-be poets (poetasters) trumpet their imaginary achievements to the point of seeming barmy to the rest of us.

[David]

Originally posted by sparky
On another note, what does that assistant of hers DO ? Other than sit around in a chair reading a book ? She's like Jai on Queer Eye. Seemingly without purpose! Isn't that annoying? And if Karen (or whoever before that) annoys us, you can imagine the effect on the other members of Fleetwood Mac, who have to put up with Stevie Nicks appearing in duplicate (or even triplicate) every time they summon her.

Leave the friends & assistants at home, Stevie. When it's your solo project & you're the boss, they can hover about you as much as you like. But John McVie doesn't want -- or need -- to look up & see Karen every time he asks you a question.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by David
I've never heard any poet -- I would say from the 10th century A.D. to the present -- publicly proclaim himself (or herself) a poet as much as Stevie has. Someone really ought to tell her that it comes across as a bit smug, really. There's no reason for a genuine poet to throw that word around quite so frequently; the greatest poets wouldn't stoop to the level of pointing out the obvious, while the would-be poets (poetasters) trumpet their imaginary achievements to the point of seeming barmy to the rest of us. I've often thought that Stevie's "I'm a poet" comments, were sort of a knee-jerk reaction to all of the criticism she's received over the years for not being a musician, and for being "flaky" in her writing style.

It does come off a bit smug, but I think it's really just a defense mechanism... and I can't say I blame her.

[4Buck]

I've never heard any poet -- I would say from the 10th century A.D. to the present -- publicly proclaim himself (or herself) a poet as much as Stevie has. Someone really ought to tell her that it comes across as a bit smug, really. There's no reason for a genuine poet to throw that word around quite so frequently; the greatest poets wouldn't stoop to the level of pointing out the obvious, while the would-be poets (poetasters) trumpet their imaginary achievements to the point of seeming barmy to the rest of us.

Agreed!

I also couldn't get over when Nicks called Fleetwood Mac -- her band.

I would have liked to have seen more of Buckingham's SAY YOU WILL tunes performed on this doc.....

[David]

Originally posted by stefan
The bearded guy with the long hair- Jeff Ayeroff- nodding to "Thrown down" and trying to lighten up the tension the meeting obviously had. LB laying back while Peacekeeper is playing- you can tell he was feeling uncomfortable that day. I think it was an uncomfortable session, too. Back when the band was one of the top commercial forces, it could afford to tell record company execs who got too nosy to butt out.

But times have changed for Fleetwood Mac, obviously. Now the grisly looking stuffed shirts haul their surly carcasses out to the studio, plop themselves down in the chairs (which means John McVie probably has to stand) & nod their heads inanely, as if they actually liked what they were hearing. And the bandmates have to sit there on pins & needles (or needles & pins), knowing that the execs dislike the stuff, but hoping they don't dislike it too much, because that would make life a lot more difficult for Fleetwood Mac.

I'm sure the whole thing is a slightly degrading experience.

[strandinthewind]

Her statement is correct - Fleetwood Mac is her band in that she is a member of FM :shrug:

I think your assumption is that she means or implies that FM is her band in the sense that she owns it. I think this is incorrect. I base this on her statements to this effect last year around this time when she said "Mick and John could fire LB and me and start over - they are FM."

Also, most artist I have ever known, and I have known a few even some very famous ones, are very quick to let you know they are an artist :laugh: Plus, I think Stevie saying she is a songwriter or poet is just like someone saying I am a mechanic. Is she not supposed to say what she does :shrug:

[diamondsnake]

A couple of comments on the last few pages of posts:

Stevie Nicks is a poet, but when did she ever call herself a poet in this show?

I loved how the bearded man started singing during SYW to lighten the mood. I thought it was a fun, happy moment when everyone was singing "Say you will give me one more chance at least give me time to change..."

I think Stevie has every right to call Fleetwood Mac "my band" because it is her band. She knows she is not the owner of the band, but she is prob. the biggest asset to the band right now andf I really think she has every right. If John or Lindsey called it their band it would be fine, also.

Stevie's personal assistant is so annoying. She was in almost every clip, sitting there grooming Stevie's dog! She needs to leave ASAP! I wanted her to leave my tv screen; imagine the rest of the band, not wanting to be rude, but wanting some alone time with just the band. I heard Stevie doesn't have a license though. So she needs someone to drive her!

And what exactly did that one person mean saying Stevie has a dead-pan personality and almost doesn't have a personality at all?

[wondergirl9847]

I just wanted to say....I don't see her as a poet. A Poet. Someone who writes poetry and makes a living at it. She doesn't do that. She is in a band and writes songs, with melodies.

She is a singer/songwriter.

I can see the argument that songs are basically, poetry put to music, but I just do not see her as a poet. She is poetic, as an adjective. I do realize that she writes poetry in her journals and such, but I write poetry too, but that doesn't make me a poet.

I'm just being as a$$ today. :laugh:

[Keith]

Originally posted by diamondsnake
Stevie's personal assistant is so annoying. She was in almost every clip, sitting there grooming Stevie's dog! She needs to leave ASAP!

Well, I wanted to be Stevie's assistant.. how cool to just hang out and take care of Ms. Nicks. I didn't record the show last night, so i'm running on memory fumes, but I have to say I smiled at Stevie quite a few times.. she captured my heart..

I'm listening to "Murrow" as I type, wondering if Lindsey knew he was writing about the American press in 2004. I've been listening to "Say You Will" again and I must admit .. it's better the second time around..

:-)

[LindseyChick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kak125
[B] I loved the part when they were talking about Thrown Down and Stevie was saying how it was about Lindsey and him saying something to the effect of how he knows the song is about him and that you have to distance yourself from that but you can tell he was flattered by it (as he should be).

I also loved that part! I've always felt that a lot of the stuff they've written is about the other. That's one of the things that draws me to them. When he asked her who the song was about, I don't think he meant the actual person, I think the answer he was looking for was the character named, which is "he", 'cause he was trying to get her to change it to "and now he's going home", but she came out with "it's about you". I loved that!

I haven't read all the posts in regard to the documentary, but from what I have read, I haven't seen anyone make mention of the fact that they ran it commercial free. WHAT AN ABSOLUTE GIFT TO US!! Thank you to whomever is responsible for that! It was a much needed "fix" for this Lindsey fan. I came away just loving all four of them.

And yes, Lindsey was very kind to John. Who would have thought all those years ago....?! John's part on the boat was the best John part. I thought it was reminiscent of a very old Christine interview that took place on a sailboat...(her sailboat?).

So, yeh, it was great. I think I'll watch it again tonight.

Peace and love,
Sharon L.

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I don't think it's necessary either, as candid shots of her have proven that she looks gorgeous with little makeup, and without benefit of re-touching... but she's sort of in that "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

If they re-touch her appearance, she gets needled for being vain or insecure... and if she doesn't, she sets herself up to get criticized for looking tired, or old, or God knows what else.

At any rate, i don't believe her appearance was re-touched throughout the entire documentary... only certain spots.
For instance, she looks exactly the same in several of the recording scenes, as she does on the enchanced clips from the 'Say You Will' disc, and from the official site.

How in the world did you infer all of that from a few people saying that she was touched-up?

No one is knocking Stevie for it, man. If I looked tired or like **** in some shots, I'd do the same thing, so I don't begrudge her for doing it. But it certainly is vain and there's no way to dance around it. :)

Anyways, like I said, she looked beautiful throughout the whole thing.

[4Buck]

Agreed!

ENDEARING MOMENTS FOR ME from FM/DESTINY RULES DOCUMENTARY…..I LOVED IT!

WORLD TURNING: Stevie wants to do the entire set again…..It’s late….(We know Lindsey’s been there earlier than the others)….she knows he’s moving into his new house…..he needs a rest, he says sexily in an open white shirt….he can’t stay till 10:00 …. or 9:30 tonight….

Stevie backs off about rehearsing the complete set.…..and says, “Ok then, let’s just keep going and just do half the set and then we’ll call it…..”

THE TOUR:
Lindsey and Stevie happily engaging in conversation on plane…Charming!

“Here we go!” Mick cheerfully tells us in Columbus Ohio on their kick-off concert date May 7th 2003……...In a back hallway, Lindsey warms up fingerpicking his acoustic gem, NEVER GOIN BACK AGAIN…..

THE DRESSING ROOM …..”Johnnnnnny….!” Lindsey calls to the melodic bass player, and he and John give each other good luck hugs….

Then “You know where I stand,” John firmly says to Mick. “I know where you stand. That’s why I love you,” Mick warmly confirms…

Then John, shaking his finger at his longtime band buddy, commands, “ when I *@^% look at you, you *@^$ smile ----“

“----You look at me back!” Mick says overriding his friend’s words. “Maybe….maybe…” the legendary drummer kids…
.
“**@ right!” – John demands, walking away…..

Lindsey gently takes Stevie’s hands and separately kisses both of them. Then, as if to comfort, you see him ask “you all right?”

La lovely Nicks nods….

THE GRAND ENTRANCE……

Holding hands Stevie and Lindsey head for the stage… lights go out!.....the crowd roars! S&L are escorted by a beacon….camera follows …….. a heartbeat is heard above the crowd….

Surrealistic………………….

Dramatically, the doc ends here……………

[dontlookdown]

i thought it was poorly edited. also - it could have been cutdown by 30 minutes. the "tension" between lindsey and stevie and lindsey and the rest of the band felt contrived. although i did like the moment in the beginning where he gets emotional and has to wipe away tears. that felt real.

you can tell stevie can be unpleasant at times. i love her but she sure can take herself too seriously at times. and yeah - lindsey can be pompous. but i think it's warranted.

stevie's no bob dylan. and i wish she would chop off all that hair and just get a great short cool haircut.
aside from that - i loved it!
i especially loved John's post-alcoholic inability to form a sentence. maybe lindsey's perfect diction makes up for that.

and surprise - who seemed the most grounded and normal and un-affected?

mick fleetwood!

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Stevie would NOT work well with short hair...and thank God, I love her long hair..it's incredible..it's a trademark (more of a trademark nowadays than her clothes)

Chris

[diamondsnake]

I just have to say, that although Stevie looked great through the whole video, it was incredible how different she looked in the rehersals with her hair all wild without a care about how she looked and then opening night when her hair and makeup were perfect. It was crazy! I can't get over how made up these stars are in front of the camera, but it is good because it shows us they are just like you and me, you know?

I agree about John not being able to form a sentence- and don't kill me but john talks like this: I... want.... to.... .... well... ummm.... In other words he talks way too slow. Spead it up! Maybe he is just being wise and doesn't want to say anything that could get him in trouble in front of people. I am the complete opposite- I talk and then think.

[diamondsnake]

Originally posted by dontlookdown
i thought it was poorly edited. also - it could have been cutdown by 30 minutes. the "tension" between lindsey and stevie and lindsey and the rest of the band felt contrived. although i did like the moment in the beginning where he gets emotional and has to wipe away tears. that felt real.

you can tell stevie can be unpleasant at times. i love her but she sure can take herself too seriously at times. and yeah - lindsey can be pompous. but i think it's warranted.

stevie's no bob dylan. and i wish she would chop off all that hair and just get a great short cool haircut.
aside from that - i loved it!
i especially loved John's post-alcoholic inability to form a sentence. maybe lindsey's perfect diction makes up for that.

and surprise - who seemed the most grounded and normal and un-affected?

mick fleetwood!

You are right- she is no Bob Dylan- she is better then him! :laugh: and why would she cut her hair, it is her outstanding feature IMO.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
How in the world did you infer all of that from a few people saying that she was touched-up?

No one is knocking Stevie for it, man. If I looked tired or like **** in some shots, I'd do the same thing, so I don't begrudge her for doing it. But it certainly is vain and there's no way to dance around it. :)Gimme a break, my friend... you know as well as I do, from past threads here and on other boards, that she gets slammed for anything that can be perceived as vanity, and knocked if people don't think she's living up to the expectations they have for her physical appearance.

I was just commenting on that fact, not commenting on vanity... after all, combing our hair in the morning is an act of vanity, if you want to get technical.

[AgainLindsey]

i did like the moment in the beginning where he gets emotional and has to wipe away tears. that felt real.

i especially loved John's post-alcoholic inability to form a sentence. maybe lindsey's perfect diction makes up for that.


good bits!

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

I have only seen the clip so I could be totally wrong here but where did Stevie compare herself to Bob Dylan? I thought she said to Lindsey that he wouldn't say what he was saying to Bob Dylan

Pip

[wondergirl9847]

You are correct. She goes "You wouldn't say that to Bob Dylan."

[4Buck]

>>>>You don't know what was edited out....

Buckingham probably retorted,
"Stevie...you ain't no Bob Dylan." :laugh:

In his grammatically correct way, of course....

[wondergirl9847]

Don't judge us all by the words of one.

That is all.

:rolleyes:

[Gypsy-Rhiannon]

Originally posted by wondergirl9847
Don't judge us all by the words of one.

That is all.

:rolleyes:
:xoxo:

[The Tower]

Stevie is as much of a poet as Jewel is..... I like to think of her as a singer/songwriter (who said that earlier in the thread???).

Vanity is vanity is vanity is vanity. It's neither negative, nor positive. If she feels she looks like ****, and she wants to doctor it up- go for it and don't feel ashamed one way or the other.

I think Lindsey was an ass to ask Stevie to change her lyrics. She wrote it that way for her reasons- leave it at that.

"Goodbye Baby" acoustic was incredible!! I had gooseflesh the entire time. It just goes to show you how amazingly unique Stevie's voice is.

[wondergirl9847]

:D

He didn't ASK her to change the lyrics, did he, I think he suggested what he thought sounded better, and he said, "I couldn't not bring it up." and that was that....or that was all we saw anyways. LOL

SOMEONE, go find the other 498 1/2 hours!!!!!!!! :nod:

[Livia]

Stevie is as much of a poet as Jewel is..... I like to think of her as a singer/songwriter (who said that earlier in the thread???).

Remember when Kurt Loder got all over her for using a word that's not really a word? You could tell she was peeved.

[clooney]

Originally posted by The Tower
I think Lindsey was an ass to ask Stevie to change her lyrics. She wrote it that way for her reasons- leave it at that.


I don't think it was bad of him to make suggestions to her. He made his suggestion, then when it wasn't going anywhere, he backed off. Maybe he was trying to make it a team effort like John Lennon and Paul McCartney. But when he was shot down, he didn't pressure.
He just wanted to be gramatically correct. No harm done.

Chris

[CarneVaca]

Songwriting is not poetry.

"Now you're going home" is not poetry.

Very few songwriters can put poetry to music. Leonard Cohen, for instance:

Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin
Dance me through the panic till I'm gathered safely in
Lift me like an olive branch and be my homeward dove
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love

Or:

Now in Vienna there's ten pretty women
There's a shoulder where Death comes to cry
There's a lobby with nine hundred windows
There's a tree where the doves go to die
There's a piece that was torn from the morning
And it hangs in the Gallery of Frost

[strandinthewind]

Carne - I disagree (surprise :laugh: ) Here is Merriam Webster's def. of "poetry"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=poetry&x=21&y=10

Moreover, in that thesaurus, "song" is a synonym of "poetry."

http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/thesaurus?book=Thesaurus&va=poetry&x=21&y=7

The term "verse" is used interchangeably in poem and song as is "lyric." See www.merriam-webster.com

Finally, that source defines song as a "poetical composition."

So, I think it is correct to say a song is a poem or poetry put to music.

Now - the quality of that poetry is a debate that will be had until the end of time :laugh: - but I'd put the bulk of LB and SN's work up against anyone. I'd also freely admit some songs are more poetic than others, but I'd say most of SN and LB's songs are poetry in that they are not dissertations, etc.,and they are beautiful - even "now you're goin' home"

:cool:

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Gimme a break, my friend... you know as well as I do, from past threads here and on other boards, that she gets slammed for anything that can be perceived as vanity, and knocked if people don't think she's living up to the expectations they have for her physical appearance.

I was just commenting on that fact, not commenting on vanity... after all, combing our hair in the morning is an act of vanity, if you want to get technical.

And I simply said that no one was slamming her on this thread. I see no point in slamming her for having her shots smoothed out; it would be futile and a waste of time. Besides, as I said before, I'd do the same thing. ;) And I wouldn't knock her for looking tired, either. She is in her fifties and no one looks like an album cover 24 hours a day. Or for two hours a day, for that matter.

And, since you got technical, almost all of our behaviors are motivated out of vanity. Brushing our teeth, brushing our hair, smoothing out our wrinkled clothes, using breath mints; it's all vanity, my friend. :nod:

[The Tower]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Songwriting is not poetry.

"Now you're going home" is not poetry.

Very few songwriters can put poetry to music. Leonard Cohen, for instance:

Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin
Dance me through the panic till I'm gathered safely in
Lift me like an olive branch and be my homeward dove
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love

Or:

Now in Vienna there's ten pretty women
There's a shoulder where Death comes to cry
There's a lobby with nine hundred windows
There's a tree where the doves go to die
There's a piece that was torn from the morning
And it hangs in the Gallery of Frost

Songwriting absolutely can be poetry. Stevie has achieved what I would consider poetry on several of her songs. However, the overwhelming majority of her stuff just doesn't cut it, poetry-wise (look at some of her demos fer chrissakes...).

But a lot of Bob Dylan's stuff is crap, too- so I wouldn't consider him a "poet".

Leonard Cohen may be a poet, but he can't sing for crapola....

[chiliD]

Originally posted by The Tower
But a lot of Bob Dylan's stuff is crap, too- so I wouldn't consider him a "poet".


A lot you DON'T know about Dylan.

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by dissention
And I simply said that no one was slamming her on this thread.I know... I was just trying to head it off at the pass. :nod: :)

I'm glad it didn't ultimately go that direction.Originally posted by dissention
And, since you got technical, almost all of our behaviors are motivated out of vanity. Brushing our teeth, brushing our hair, smoothing out our wrinkled clothes, using breath mints; it's all vanity, my friend. :nod:I whole-heartedly agree... that's why I mentioned it in the first place.

I think the billion-dollar skin & hair-care industry is proof enough that we're ALL vain to one degree or another. :nod:

[Johnny Stew]

Originally posted by The Tower
But a lot of Bob Dylan's stuff is crap, too- so I wouldn't consider him a "poet".As with Stevie's stuff, I feel that even when Bob Dylan has written something that some people would consider to be "crap," as long as it reaches SOMEONE, then it has value. :nod:

I also don't think that writing the occasional clunker precludes someone from being considered a poet. :)

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
I also don't think that writing the occasional clunker precludes someone from being considered a poet. :)

I agree. And I agree that Stevie is a poet. Take any of her songs and just read them. If you don't consider them poetry, you really don't know what poetry is. :)

[The Tower]

Originally posted by chiliD
A lot you DON'T know about Dylan.

Ah, but I do! Dylan is a MASTER!! However, he has had more than his fair share of stinkeroos. Here's a lovely excerpt from "Saved":

"I've been saved
By the blood of the lamb,
Saved
By the blood of the lamb,
Saved,
Saved,
And I'm so glad.
Yes, I'm so glad,
I'm so glad,
So glad,
I want to thank You, Lord,
I just want to thank You, Lord,
Thank You, Lord."

Rock on, poet man! :laugh:

[dissention]

Originally posted by The Tower
Ah, but I do! Dylan is a MASTER!! However, he has had more than his fair share of stinkeroos. Here's a lovely excerpt from "Saved":

"I've been saved
By the blood of the lamb,
Saved
By the blood of the lamb,
Saved,
Saved,
And I'm so glad.
Yes, I'm so glad,
I'm so glad,
So glad,
I want to thank You, Lord,
I just want to thank You, Lord,
Thank You, Lord."

Rock on, poet man! :laugh:

Put that next to:

"When I see you again
Will it be the same
When I see you again
Will it be over
When I see you again
Will your great eyes still say

What's the matter baby
What's the matter baby
What's the matter baby, baby, baby
What's the matter baby
What's the matter baby
What's the matter baby, baby"

Pretty ****ty, but that doesn't make her less of a poet.

Name one poet who hasn't written at least one bad piece and I'll send you some blank checks. ;)

[Johnny Stew]

Doggoneit, dissention, I just KNEW you were gonna quote "When I See You Again"!!! :p :laugh:

To my dying day, I will argue that it's one of the most emotionally arresting songs she has ever recorded. :nod:

[dissention]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Doggoneit, dissention, I just KNEW you were gonna quote "When I See You Again"!!! :p :laugh:

To my dying day, I will argue that it's one of the most emotionally arresting songs she has ever recorded. :nod:

But don't you at least agree with my stance on the whole poet debate? I thought you'd be the first one to applaud me, doll. :laugh: :wavey:

As with Dylan, I can quote a few more bad Stevie ramblings other than WISYA. But that was just the obvious one. :laugh:

[The Tower]

Originally posted by dissention
But don't you at least agree with my stance on the whole poet debate? I thought you'd be the first one to applaud me, doll. :laugh: :wavey:

As with Dylan, I can quote a few more bad Stevie ramblings other than WISYA. But that was just the obvious one. :laugh:

I was gonna quote "Ooh Ooh Baby" and "Night Gallery" :eek: I really like "When I See You Again". But, again, it's a song- it's not a poem.

I guess I consider a poet to be one who's main work it just writing poetry- Poe, Walt Whitman, etc. And usually they have to rely solely on the power of the words to convey the entire meaning. With Stevie and Dylan, I consider them singer-songwriters. Their lyrics can be as profound as poetry, but the words are usually suited towards singing, which can sometimes produce distrastrous results... :laugh:

[David]

Originally posted by The Tower
Leonard Cohen may be a poet, but he can't sing for crapola.... Gray was a poet:

Th' applause of listening senates to command,
The threats of pain & ruin to despise,
To scatter plenty o'er a smiling land,
And read their history in a nation's eyes.

I think it's a bit fatuous to call every last songwriter a poet, as if every nice little song were a poem. Most rock or pop songwriting is just bursts of images & feelings. Good poetry is a lot more than that: it doesn't just describe events or moods; it has to suggest meanings beyond the specific description, & its wording (as potentially intricate & complex as mathematical equations) triggers associations that usually don't occur to us. This is one of the basic formulas of good poetry: movement from the specific to the general.

But nowadays everyone has his own opinion of what constitutes poetry, & I'm not going to dip my feet any farther into that morass.

[David]

Originally posted by Johnny Stew
Doggoneit, dissention, I just KNEW you were gonna quote "When I See You Again"!!! :p :laugh:

To my dying day, I will argue that it's one of the most emotionally arresting songs she has ever recorded. :nod: And when you die, I'll pick up where you left off, because I love that one, too.

[ShangriLaTroubl]

I didn't really see anything wrong with Lindsey's suggestion..when Stevie is working on a Fleetwood Mac project it is a BAND project...the band is allowed an input on anything that is going to go on their record (now i know this isnt REALLY the case with this band)...but with any band, all band members input and often suggest changes for the songs, no matter who wrote them...Thrown Down albeit written by Stevie is a FLEETWOOD MAC song...and they deserve their input

Chris

[teedee]

Originally posted by CarneVaca
Songwriting is not poetry.

"Now you're going home" is not poetry.

Very few songwriters can put poetry to music. Leonard Cohen, for instance:

Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin
Dance me through the panic till I'm gathered safely in
Lift me like an olive branch and be my homeward dove
Dance me to the end of love
Dance me to the end of love

Or:

Now in Vienna there's ten pretty women
There's a shoulder where Death comes to cry
There's a lobby with nine hundred windows
There's a tree where the doves go to die
There's a piece that was torn from the morning
And it hangs in the Gallery of Frost

stevie stating ,"its the poet that i am , this is how i write" you also have to remember when stevie writes in her journals sometimes she writes things down as a poem or in chants , then she goes back to them later on and puts them to ryme when working on her songs. so she is a poet in her own write, maybe what you consider a poet, is something you read as a poem, but stevie does write in her journal daily, and she does write like a poet, i have that clip when she was reading from her journal and it was an amazing clip to see exactly how she thinks and puts it to paper and then draws from it later to form her songs. when she composes a song , i think its correct for her to use what sounds write for her to make a song flow.. i love the way thrown down flows and i am glad she kept it the way she wanted it and that lindsey didnt push it . i think they both state what they want to say which is great that they can do that today, and then in the end they come to terms to agree that its ok after all is said and done.

[CarneVaca]

Originally posted by teedee
stevie stating ,"its the poet that i am , this is how i write" you also have to remember when stevie writes in her journals sometimes she writes things down as a poem or in chants , then she goes back to them later on and puts them to ryme when working on her songs. .

Compare the line "Now you're going home" to "Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin," and tell me which one is poetry.

Stevie has written some wonderful poetic lines, but for her to defend "Now you're going home" as beautiful poetry makes me question if she understands what poetry is. My sense is that she was digging her heels stubbornly because she didn't want to concede to her former lover.

Lindsey was right to point out the flaw but he was wrong in the solution. The better solution would have been to turn the whole song into first and second person. As for the verb tense, "fell for her" and "now you're going home," actually makes sense to me because it shows a time continuum.

[t.c.]

Originally posted by dissention
I felt like screaming at the TV "10 year olds don't want to hear even ONE song from a bunch of fiftysomethings!" :laugh: Where in the hell did she get the idea that 10 year olds would buy their album?!

My niece is 10 and she is a huge Fleetwood Mac fan. She got the cd (and has most of their others too, and is working in getting all of them). She also saw them in concert, has their calendar, and t-shirt....

Plus I always see kids at Stevie and FM concerts.

[t.c.]

Originally posted by SteveMacD
I know I'll be in the minority, but I thought it was boring. It's interesting in that we got to see the album being recorded, but it didn't offer what I'd consider new insight into the band. My BIGGEST gripe is that they didn't have enough of John's sarcasm.


I loved the part when John was picking on Mick for talking too much and rambling on! lol! I have heard interviews with just Mick in the past, and I would always be so bored because he does just babble on about stuff that most of the time seems to dull. So that just cracked me up, hearing John say that. :laugh:

[t.c.]

Originally posted by dissention
Of course not, but 800,000 17-27 year olds didn't buy it, either. I would bet money that thwo-thirds of the people that bought it were middle-aged, classic rock fans. Besides, the whole arguemnt of a double album not being successful is really bull**** these days. It's not the late-seventies where a double album was double the price. It's the new millenium and a double album is the same as a single disc.

The record business men know their stuff. You know how much money they put into their research? They wouldn't bother if it didn't aid their making the most possible money they could make. If a double album made more money, they'd be thrilled to see more double albums. Their goal is to make is much money as they possibly can. And I've never seen a double album/cd the same price around where I live anyways....

[t.c.]

Originally posted by Mike B
Yes, that was a cool moment! Stevie sounded so good. And
Also, what was that Lindsey said about only being paid royalties for 12 songs on an album? Huh? Is that a standard thing or a deal they had worked out or what?


He seemed the only one not interested in the money. Way to go Lindsey! Not that Stevie seemed greedy, just more practical. It was cool to see Lindsey fight for a double cd even though they'd lose money on it. I thought he was quite hot during the whole thing.Stevie too. And even Mick and John. They all looked so good.

I wondered too about how he said they only get royalties on 12 songs. How weird. So they gave us 18, and lost out on money? That's pretty cool of them.

I felt bad for Lindsey how it seemed like the record people knew he was wanting to do a solo cd but said how much better it would sell if instead he did Fleetwood Mac cd instead. That's gotta hurt. Hope he knows he's adored! And then some!

[t.c.]

Originally posted by strandinthewind
Lux - you will love it because LB is great in it. Its just IMO sometimes his vocals leave me cold. The best parts of him on this IMO are him jamming on the guitar, which he does like no one else!

I would love to hear the guys just jam sometime. That'd be so cool. I'd go see a concert of just that. A nice little blue-sy club somewhere... But then I'd need a Stevie solo concert to get my Stevie fix in too - lol!