Why Trump is wrong on trade

Macfan4life · #1 07-03-2016, 08:03 PM

I was born in the rust belt so I know how it feels there (sorry but I could not resist a Stevie-ism). I was born in a suburb of Pittsburgh PA. My grandfather would walk down a huge hill to work at the Homestead mills in the 1950's. Homestead had the first labor strike in the USA where many were killed. My father followed his father and also worked in the steel mills. Fortunately my dad transferred to Westinghouse nuclear before the mills closing. The early 80's were a horrible time in western Pennsylvania. Our industry and the backbone of our life was coming to a halt. Cheap Japanese steel was flooding the markets. Our unemployment rate but early 1983 was over 14%. I remember my friend's dad being laid off and washing cars, delivering newspapers, doing anything they could to support their families. Blue collar democrats ruled the day. Our county (Westmoreland county) was a major suburb of Pittsburgh. Our county voted for Carter during the Reagan landside of 1980. We voted for Mondale/Ferraro during the Reagan landslide of 1984. We voted for Dukakis/Bentsen in the Bush landslide of 1988. Our county was pure labor democrats waiting and hoping for steel, manufacturing, union jobs to return to the region.
In the late 1980's we even engaged in Japan bashing (Google it). Representatives from our region would smash Panasonic radios with sledge hammers on the steps of the US Capital. We were bitter everyone was buying cheaper, inferior Japanese steel. Japan was producing more than steel. They perfected mass productions of TV's, VCR's and other electronic products. Japanese cars were also very popular getting very good fuel economy and tremendous customer satisfaction.. Not only were the steel mills closing but General Motors and Chrysler were in a down fall.
It was easy to Japan bash. It was easy to demand everyone buy a Dodge in 1980 no matter how crappy it was. Ronald Reagan avoided Pittsburgh at all costs. He came once during the early 80's and had to be snuck out of the city because of protests. The Reagan administration told everyone that the flood of imports was good for the economy because it showed how strong our economy was because the American people had money to buy products. We thought this was the most insane thing ever.
In 1992 George Bush negotiated the North American Free Trade Amendment (FAFTA). he lost re-election surprisingly so he never got to sign it into law. Bill Clinton won in 1992 and signed NAFTA into law. It was hugely unpopular with the democrat party. It passed Congress with majority of republicans and a small number of democrats and signed into law by Bill Clinton. The law eliminated tariffs in North America.
NAFTA did cause some loss of jobs in the United States. But it also cost the loss of some jobs in Mexico and Canada. However the economic positives were much higher. The impact of NAFTA was a major reason for the economic boom of the 1990's. Unemployment fell under 4% in the United States and the stock market reached record highs. American auto makers had record years. No one buys American cars in Europe or South America. But Canadians and Mexicans buy American cars. NAFTA made the cars more affordable by lifting tariffs. Under NAFTA whoever is most productive with products wins. It make products affordable in other countries. Consumers will always buy the most affordable and reliable product.
Trump wants to start trade wars. He wants to impose tariffs on products which in turn puts huge tariffs on American products trying to be sold abroad. You cant start a trade war with China. China owns the US with financing part of our debt. China could cause more harm to Americans than any tariffs imposed on Chinese products could cause in China. Tariffs on American cars would put the cars out of reach for Mexicans and Canadians. Trump wants to rip apart NAFTA. NAFTA has created more jobs in the USA than it has killed jobs in the USA. No one wins in a trade war.
Paul Ryan (Speaker of the House) is for free trade and so are most republicans. Trump cannot stop NAFTA without Congress. A republican congress will not rip apart NAFTA. Bernie Sanders is wrong on trade. And even Hillary Clinton is flip flopping on trade. Every major party candidate for President of the United States has given in to lies and false statements about free trade. Free trade promotes workers. Unfree trade only promotes sham workers who push inferior products because of tariffs.
Free trade = jobs = competition = stable economy

Macfanforever · #2 07-03-2016, 08:26 PM

Nice story but I think Trump will do better for the Jobs.Also good question how he's going to keep prices down of the end products..The Clinton's sold us out to China when Bill was in office.I'm 50/50 for unions and unions cost big bucks to the average Americans of the end product due to their high pay wages and fat pension plans.The positive side is they will help the employees if problems arise.If the unions were not greedy we probably have everything made here.

Jondalar · #3 07-03-2016, 09:23 PM

Because of NAFTA millions of Americans lost their jobs to outsourcing. Thanks Clintons.

Macfanforever · #4 07-03-2016, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Because of NAFTA millions of Americans lost their jobs to outsourcing. Thanks Clintons.

BINGO..........................................................

Macfanforever · #5 07-03-2016, 09:40 PM

If Trump screws up.I'll be the first one to complain about here.

olive · #6 07-04-2016, 07:07 AM

Macfan4life · #7 07-04-2016, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Because of NAFTA millions of Americans lost their jobs to outsourcing. Thanks Clintons.

You are believing the propaganda. Its sad and unfortunate. There is a reason why free trade is popular in both parties. But don't believe me. Just look at the least productive countries in the world. They impose huge tariffs on imports.
For over a decade Argentina was so protectionist it forbid any foreign products to enter the country. You are free to believe what you want. But it so sad when a wind bag gets up and says things and people believe it. So lets pretend Trump wins and Congress takes NAFTA apart.
If you are a company and sell things, they just went up in price which means you will sell less of them. Any tariffs the US puts on imports the other country will respond with even higher imports. Just google protectionism and see how it has failed everywhere. You don't win at trade when you punish consumers to pay higher prices. You win by being competitive making the best product for less. When American Autos get taxed $1500 more in Mexico, another auto maker will gladly eat up that market. Right now, other auto makers around the world not have the advantage the Americans have. Our autos arrive in Mexico without burdens of high tariffs.

Its really scary because none of the major party candidates support free and fair trade. They are playing for the ignorant masses which in turn gives us typical politicians. Gary Johnson supports free trade but he is not a major party candidate. All this stuff was tried before. I know some of you guys are too young to remember but NAFTA was created by George Bush. He could not sign it because he lost the election. The next president from an opposite party saw how great it was for the United States and signed it into law.

Macfanforever · #8 07-04-2016, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olive

He even freaking admit it that his merchandise is made in Mexico and China.Get rid of the freaking fat unions and greedy business people in this country .Maybe we can make something affordable.He finely wake up and going to do something about it .

**SisterNightroad** · #9 07-04-2016, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

He even freaking admit it that his merchandise is made in Mexico and China.Get rid of the freaking fat unions and greedy business people in this country .Maybe we can make something affordable.He finely wake up and going to do something about it .

He's one of the "greedy business people", I really would trust him.

Macfanforever · #10 07-04-2016, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SisterNightroad

He's one of the "greedy business people", I really would trust him.

Bingo.He knows the ins and outs of business and not a chronic lying corrupt politicians.

FuzzyPlum · #11 07-04-2016, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

Get rid of the freaking fat unions and greedy business people in this country.

It seems there is no record of Trump giving any money to charity since 2008.
Well worth watching...
The Young Turks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nykmOQ84wX8

PS: If you believe in capitalism then you have to go all in with laissez-faire economics. Protectionism just doesn't work and leads to downward spiral trade wars.

Jondalar · #12 07-04-2016, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SisterNightroad

He's one of the "greedy business people", I really would trust him.

The Clintons are soo
trustworthy.......

**SisterNightroad** · #13 07-04-2016, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

Bingo.He knows the ins and outs of business and not a chronic lying corrupt politicians.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jondalar

The Clintons are soo
trustworthy.......

Macfanforever · #14 07-04-2016, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuzzyPlum

It seems there is no record of Trump giving any money to charity since 2008.
Well worth watching...
The Young Turks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nykmOQ84wX8

PS: If you believe in capitalism then you have to go all in with laissez-faire economics. Protectionism just doesn't work and leads to downward spiral trade wars.

I do watch Young Turks but they are FOS at times .They are the left side version of Alex Jones.They stole the story from the Clinton News Network.I guess 3.7 Million is something better then zero which thats what I given lately.Got to watch some of those charities because some are corrupt and the funds dont make it to the people who need it.I get the charity robocalls every day and I say NO thanks.

http://newsexaminer.net/politics/don...e-billionaire/

He probably sees they are corrupt and I do too since I dont donate much myself.I do donate time and donate goods and cars to the charities.

PS.No I know Socialism is going to take over this country soon with the SJW's with money from Soros and his other cronies . Very soon. ITS TIME TO WAKE UP AMERICA IF YOU WANT FREEDOM.

**SisterNightroad** · #15 07-04-2016, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macfanforever

I do watch Young Turks but they are FOS at times .They are the left side version of Alex Jones.They stole the story from the Clinton News Network.I guess 3.7 Million is something better then zero which thats what I given lately.Got to watch some of those charities because some are corrupt and the funds dont make it to the people who need it.I get the charity robocalls every day and I say NO thanks.

http://newsexaminer.net/politics/don...e-billionaire/

He probably sees they are corrupt and I do too since I dont donate much myself.I do donate time and donate goods and cars to the charities.

PS.No I know Socialism is going to take over this country soon with the SJW's with money from Soros and his other cronies . Very soon. ITS TIME TO WAKE UP AMERICA IF YOU WANT FREEDOM.

If it was only because they're corrupted then he could have made his own charity organization like a lot of others that have his same wealth and chances. But here we're going off topic.
I believe in free trade, but I know that NAFTA along with aiding economically enriching North America has also raised the numbers of abuses at work in the weaker South America countries, especially for women and children. We're talking about searches, fertility controls and forced sterilization.