Where Do You Stand on the Bailout?

[GoS]

The Ledge seems to be a very balanced place, politically. So what do you guys think?

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by GoS

The Ledge seems to be a very balanced place, politically. So what do you guys think?

I don't know about balanced, I think I'm the only R here!

I don't support it. I think it will fall very short and allow for more corruption and is just an incentive for more business as usual. I also think it will snowball the problem and we'll have a bigger problem down the line. I think the government should take over the investments and broker asset purchases and make up the difference in equity, much the the FDIC might with deposits. As far as the mortgages go or the MBOs, the market should do the rest and we may have a couple of very bad years. However, IMO, it is better than a long and painful depression that lasts for a decade or more.

[Musicman408]

Not in favor of where it stands now.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

I don't know about balanced, I think I'm the only R here!

I don't support it. I think it will fall very short and allow for more corruption and is just an incentive for more business as usual. I also think it will snowball the problem and we'll have a bigger problem down the line. I think the government should take over the investments and broker asset purchases and make up the difference in equity, much the the FDIC might with deposits. As far as the mortgages go or the MBOs, the market should do the rest and we may have a couple of very bad years. However, IMO, it is better than a long and painful depression that lasts for a decade or more.

I didn't mean balanced in quantity, I meant in debating abilty! If there is a reasonable debate going on, you take on four or so people and hold your ground.

Don't worry I have a conservative friend (4gigs) who should start posting as soon as his account gets activated, he'll help you out I bet!

[David]

I don't support this damn bailout.

And what's upsetting me even more in the past day or two is the mumble among the irresponsible segment of homeowners (you can read their comments on various forums & news sites) that now THEY want individual bailouts.

If there's anything I would want to do LESS than bail out a Broad Street investment corporation, it's bail out any of my stupid, irresponsible fellow Americans who bought homes with no-interest loans or no money down & whose incomes couldn't even come CLOSE to keeping up with their mortgages.

Irresponsible dumb****s, all of 'em.

[GoS]

Originally Posted by David

I don't support this damn bailout.

And what's upsetting me even more in the past day or two is the mumble among the irresponsible segment of homeowners (you can read their comments on various forums & news sites) that now THEY want individual bailouts.

If there's anything I would want to do LESS than bail out a Broad Street investment corporation, it's bail out any of my stupid, irresponsible fellow Americans who bought homes with no-interest loans or no money down & whose incomes couldn't even come CLOSE to keeping up with their mortgages.

Irresponsible dumb****s, all of 'em.

I think it is the mortgage lenders' fault. They lied to and misled many innocent people to get them into this mess.

[ajmccarrell]

Originally Posted by GoS

I think it is the mortgage lenders' fault. They lied to and misled many innocent people to get them into this mess.

True, but people who can't budget also signed on the dotted line. I almost bought a house from one of these shady guys a year ago, the difference is that I said no to the pack of goods he was selling me. He wasn't following the laws regarding good faith estimates, but had I signed I also would be responsible because I didn't push him to provide backup for his loan. I took this guy on referral from a friend, yada yada.

We have a lot of people in this country who have no idea what they can really afford and want to buy things out of their price range. For example, I just sold a car. It was a 2003 Mitsubishi Eclipse GTS. It was heavily modded, but I decided I needed to grow up and save on the car payment and buy a more adult car. You wouldn't believe how many half-price offers I got, or how many unemployed people wanted to make payments, etc. There were a ton of people who were getting loans but hadn't started the process, but wanted to fill out a bill of sale, etc. The problem is that as Americans, our purchasing habits are basically stupid. Just as these people wanted to buy a car out of their reach, lots of people were more than willing to sign up for the snake oil loans at teaser rates, figuring that they would never have to pay up eventually. Those people DO deserve to lose their homes and it was the bank's fault for lending to people who had no business buying homes, or for buying homes that were out of their league.

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by ajmccarrell

True, but people who can't budget also signed on the dotted line. I almost bought a house from one of these shady guys a year ago, the difference is that I said no to the pack of goods he was selling me. He wasn't following the laws regarding good faith estimates, but had I signed I also would be responsible because I didn't push him to provide backup for his loan. I took this guy on referral from a friend, yada yada.

We have a lot of people in this country who have no idea what they can really afford and want to buy things out of their price range. For example, I just sold a car. It was a 2003 Mitsubishi Eclipse GTS. It was heavily modded, but I decided I needed to grow up and save on the car payment and buy a more adult car. You wouldn't believe how many half-price offers I got, or how many unemployed people wanted to make payments, etc. There were a ton of people who were getting loans but hadn't started the process, but wanted to fill out a bill of sale, etc. The problem is that as Americans, our purchasing habits are basically stupid. Just as these people wanted to buy a car out of their reach, lots of people were more than willing to sign up for the snake oil loans at teaser rates, figuring that they would never have to pay up eventually. Those people DO deserve to lose their homes and it was the bank's fault for lending to people who had no business buying homes, or for buying homes that were out of their league.

Agreed. I have a decent income for a family the size of mine, but I know damn well I can't comfortably afford a mortgage like I've seen many people around me go after - people who make way less than I do. I don't even have a credit card, and if I ever did end up getting one, I'd lock it away somewhere. If I don't have the cash to buy something when I want to buy it, I just don't.

I think our stupid spending habits stem from a strange sense of entitlement - well, of COURSE I deserve a 4 bedroom house on my McDonald's paycheck. Of COURSE I deserve ajmccarrell's fancy car (which I imagine you yourself worked hard for, since you strike me as that sort of dude) even though I'm unemployed and can't make rent anyway. Of COURSE. I'm a good person, and people like me, dammit. I deserve fancy things I can't afford, and then when that goes pear-shaped, I will blame everyone else for it, because my sense of entitlement does not leave any room for personal responsibility.

The shady lenders are to blame for part of this, to be sure, but it's also the fault of all of the people that took out these loans with no hope of ever being able to pay for them. After all, a shady lender can't lend enough shady money to get us where we are now to NO ONE. Someone had to take the shady loan. And a ****ton of someones did.

Now we're here looking into the abyss and I am watching people shrieking about the "bailout," but I'm not convinced they understand exactly what's going on here anyway. I haven't heard anyone coming up with a better solution, and I'm not sure they could if they even knew how to go about it - if you're not bright enough to grasp the idea that you shouldn't buy more house than you can afford, I'm not sure you're bright enough to grasp the totality of the ramifications of what you and thousands of your counterparts have cheerfully marched us into.

I can't say I agree or disagree with the bailout, because I haven't even seen the language yet, but I can tell you I'd love to follow around behind the local news cameras that are asking the opinions of people on the street, and each time someone says, "NO! IT'S HORRIBLE!" I'd like to say, "Okay, now you're in control - tell me what you'd do to fix it" and see how many actually have a feasible solution of their own.

Wow, I'm annoyed. Does it show?