How Stevie Is Right

[Nikolaj]

This addresses the question of a new cd, not the setlist issues...
Though many of us here on The Ledge have more inside knowledge and information about the state of the recording industry today than an average music fan, not many of us here are 60 year old women living inside of the business of selling cds in 2008- and Stevie is.
I seriously doubt that her intention was to insult her core fanbase, it just isn't logical, but for her to vent her frustration and concerns about her music being a viable product in the marketplace shows, to me, common sense and a very realistic, grounded business mindset that a survivor needs- Five or six examples follow; and while Stevie's commercial sales have been higher than these other 'old girls' she is very much in the same predicament:
1- Donna Summer. Summer has released a new cd in the past 3 weeks, 'Crayons'. In it's debut week in Billboard, Summer debuted at a very respectable #17. Sounds great- but the total SoundScan sales were 23,000 copies. (Roughly figuring, this is $240,000 in gross sales) In her second week, she has dropped down to #44. Realistically, unless she has a radio hit, this cd will not have a long shelf-life. (She's had a #1 dance hit from it, and a second dance song is in the top 10- but it hasn't translated to sales, at this point). The cost of production, promotion, distribution, likely haven't been recouped, yet. This cd was released 17 (!) years after her last album of all new material. In between, there have been numerous hits and live packages with the occassional maxi-single. Will her label rush her into the studio to record a follow-up? (Summer remains the only female singer to have had 3 consecutive double-albums hit #1- 'Live and More,' 'Bad Girls' and 'On The Radio')-- all in the 'Rumours' just prior to 'Bella Donna' eras..
2- Carly Simon released a new cd this spring. In her fifth week on the Billboard album chart, she is at #97 and falling fast, having sold less than 100,000 copies so far
3- Deborah Harry-- poor Debbie. Her cd released this year, as of this date, has not entered the Billboard Top 200. (Debbie in Blondie had a string of #1 hits very much in the same era of Stevie and Fleetwood Mac's best selling recordings).
4- Cyndi Lauper released a new cd less than 2 weeks ago. Her Billboard chart debut was #41, with about 12,000 copies sold.
5- Dolly Parton is faring best of these five women, with her 'Backwoods Barbie' selling 26,000 copies in the first week on Billboards album chart, and some 14 (i need to check) weeks later, she's still on the Country Album chart and has yet to hit the 200,000 units sold mark, though she may. She had high-profile appearences on 'American Idol' (which, sadly, translates to cd sales) and has been on tour, and the roughly $2 million gross sales likely wouldn't thrill a major record label, but Parton now self-records for her own record label, and likely sees this cd as a minor triumph, at age 62.
6- Janet Jackson, don't have the figures, but her record label was so disappointed with sales, last week she said the label no longer is promoting the cd nor will the label issue any further singles to radio-- Janet is all of 42, and has seen her recording career dip notably in recent years, (though she had a very long run for someone with such limited talent- sorry, just my opinion, there).

So, my point is, Stevie is playing a very hard game that many of her peers are struggling with. (I'd consider each of the above her peer with the exception of Janet Jackson).
Stevie has high self-esteem and wants her music to be successful. Granted, she has earned a mint off her catalogue and especially the music publishing, and she could afford to have a moderately successful release that wouldn't STRUGGLE to reach 100,000 copies sold, as it will be a struggle for Donna Summer, Carly Simon, Deb Harry and Cyndi Lauper.
It's a really tough business, and though i don't think Stevie is ALL about the money, she certainly enjoys having her music reach as wide an audience as possible- and from the sounds of things, she wasn't satisfied with the roughly 700,000 copies sold of 'Say You Will' with Fleetwood Mac or the 600,000+ copies of 'Trouble in Shangri La'
Vh1 doesn't even play music videos anymore, and without an outlet for music videos to recoup their huge costs, they're all but obsolete. I guess it's fortunate we got videos of 'Every Day' and 'Sorcerer' considering neither of them became hits.
I think she'd LOVE to have a new cd out- but with her previous mentions of I Tunes and her current ones of Starbucks, it seems she is trying to figure out how to not only
stay in the game, but win it. I give her credit for that, but count myself as a fan who just would like to see her in the game, it's been too long with no new music.
As frustrating as it may be for her fans, imagine the frustration Stevie must face, wanting to do her best and have it be received well.
I think it's humiliating that some fans are asking Liz Rosenberg to have Stevie issue an apology to her fans. Stevie was venting, and i don't think she meant for her comments to be taken as an insult to her fans. She knows she has great fans. Something, apparantly, slipped out when she was addressing the problems of releasing new music, but i seriously doubt she meant for it to hurt her fans.
Stevie HAS had a lot of her songs wind up on the Internet and has received no profit-- Had she chosen to release a box set of demos herself on the Internet, we all would have bought it. But, most of us DO have copies of 'The Dealer' and 'Forest of The Black Roses', 'At Last' and countless other songs.
So,i think it's really mean of certain fans to expect an apology from Stevie Nicks, when, in a way, she makes very good points, and the 5 or so singers i noted above support her statement that it is very hard for new music to succeed these days. This doesn't mean she shouldn't try, but if any one of these people emailing Liz Rosenberg have even one unreleased Stevie demo or song on their computers, Stevie Nicks just as rightfully could ask for an apology for that- so why try to humiliate her? Let's just hope she makes the songs commercially available to us, we know there's about a 100 of them (0r more!) and i think she's just trying, at 60, to figure out how to go about it, because there isn't a whole hell of a lot time left.
I think she should have a chat with Dolly Parton and find out how Dolly created her own label and distributing deals on her own terms

[studyinscarlet]

But if you don't or won't release new stuff isn't the point of her wanting to be viable and stay competitive lost? I'm just thinkin'. It's self-defeating.


And I have not one illegal anything of Stevie's. Everything I have I bought. No boots either. So, I'm apology-free.

[strandinthewind]

I agree with the first post. And, none of us know the contractual obligations La Nicks has with her solo band. Maybe she has none. But, I highly doubt Waddy, Sharon, and Lori work for union session wages.

In the end, I think La Nicks should release all of her demos on her website and charge a dollar for each of them. IMO, they will never be released in any official capacity. So, why not generate some rev. and get the work out there. I also think she should market some of her demos to the younger groups.

As for concerts, I think she balances it okay - she does the hits and then gives a new song on every tour. I think that is her way of trying to please everyone. I know the so called hard core fans hate it, but La Nicks must sell to the masses to continue to tour like she does. Should she play clubs for $5,000 a show? I wouldn't when I am getting like $100,000 a show otherwise. I mean all this talk is one thing, but who here would actually work for less money if they did not have to and they actually liked what they were doing and they could spice it up a little every time to fulfill whatever need for change they personally had . I suggest none of us would.

I do wish, however, she would drop the covers and do her own material. But, she does not.

[Jondalar]

Stevie Nicks is 60 years old. If she doesn't release new material now then when is she going to.

[Musicman408]

Here's the thing though. Nobody is selling 10 million copies of any album. The real money an artist makes is from touring, am I right on this? So if I were her, if I didn't have writers block (which she may) would be to make a new record if it was something I really wanted to do. Nobody is selling millions of records, so if hers doesn't it shouldn't be a complete shock. Then, go on tour and recoup some of the costs. I mean, 10,000 people at $100 dollars a ticket???? She probably makes more in one night than I would EVER make in a year as a choral director~

[HejiraNYC]

You could probably add the recent albums by Emmylou Harris, Linda Ronstadt and Joni Mitchell to this list (and remove Janet); none of them are selling at all. However, just to play devils advocate, all of your examples (except Janet, who doesn't really fit), are on little indie boutique labels. I think I can count on one hand the number of indie albums that have become bonafide gold/platinum hits. Fortunately Stevie is still with a major label, so she is in a much better position to sell lots of albums. I think she could easily sell 300K copies without lifting a finger, and 500K if she hit the talk shows and print media hard. And if a single can be remixed into a pop hit, then maybe even more. Touring may not help, but she could draw larger audiences if people see her as a viable creative artist with a new, revamped show.

What strikes me as a bit of a mystery is whether Stevie wants to record for the sake of art or whether she just wants to make lots of money. Yes, it is sounding more and more like she is thinking about the coinage, and she could easily go to Nashville, hire a top tier producer and crank out a bunch of very commercial songs written by others that would get massive country airplay and massive sales at Wal Mart, despite all of the illegal downloading. She could go completely in the opposite direction and sell a gazillion CDs by recording a credible dance album (even re-recording her old songs) with the best DJs/producers in the world (who would drink battery acid for the honor of working with her). Yet she doesn't do any of these things, which leads me to believe that the heart of the artist still beats within her chest, and that she wouldn't do just anything to sell a record or two. Maybe Tom Petty could teach her a thing or two (again). His last two albums didn't sell fer sh**, yet he still soldiers on because that is what he does.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

. . . Maybe Tom Petty could teach her a thing or two (again). His last two albums didn't sell fer sh**, yet he still soldiers on because that is what he does.

I think that is an unfair comparison. TP and his band work together to do the records. Stevie must hire outside talent and historically has had difficulty finding the right producer. So, it likely is much more expensive for her as opposed to TP.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I think that is an unfair comparison. TP and his band work together to do the records. Stevie must hire outside talent and historically has had difficulty finding the right producer. So, it likely is much more expensive for her as opposed to TP.

But this just means that TP has to split the pie, whereas Stevie pretty much gets the lion's share of whatever sells. The fact of the matter is that recording costs have gone way down, and it seems like any basement with a Mac, a few mics, and Pro Tools software can be called a "studio." People can record things remotely, e-mail them around, mix them on the fly, etc. There's almost no need to rent a studio or to have lots of musicians flown around or send around tapes, etc.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

But this just means that TP has to split the pie, whereas Stevie pretty much gets the lion's share of whatever sells. The fact of the matter is that recording costs have gone way down, and it seems like any basement with a Mac, a few mics, and Pro Tools software can be called a "studio." People can record things remotely, e-mail them around, mix them on the fly, etc. There's almost no need to rent a studio or to have lots of musicians flown around or send around tapes, etc.

Well, no not really. If he is the producer and the writer, he will make the most.

As for Nicks needing a studio, I think she does because the music is not fuly expanded. The session players need to work together to get the sound.

[Bella Figura]

well said Nik and here is my personal opinion,

Stevie is doing pubicity for her tour which is why she is giving all these interviews...she needs to keep her answers fresh each interview so a hardcore fan is bound to hear some conflicting information. Remember, before the Internet, an avid fan would probably only read an article, maybe two, in their local papers...that's what I did back in the day...I personally never take anything she says as fact in these interviews...it's publicity which naturally implies fabrication...

I also believe she is upset that her demo/outtakes are mp3's get floated around the Internet...both from a financial and artistic standpoint. #1 because she doesnt' make one dime from these downloads and #2 the material is not the final product she wants released...and I put it in that order deliberately...

I'm a dedicated fan and a multi-album purchaser as well...I support her with one concert per tour though I did attend WH/Enchanted multiple times...but yet I am totally guilty of downloading for my personal use and creating listener cd's to give to friends and family i wanna "get hooked"...

I do this without guilt because I have multiple copies of Bella Donna/Wild Heart/Rock A Little and OTOSM on album and cd.

I have two copies Timespace/Enchanted on cd and Street Angel on cd.

I have two cd copies of TISL plus I purchased multiple copies of this album as Xmas gifts that year for my sisters and nieces.

but so far only one cd/dvd copy of Crystal Visions...I'm not even going to talk about FM except to say I have a copy of Rumours on 8-track...

so both Stevie and the record companies have made plenty of money off me over the years...us Boomers and GenX'ers have paid, paid, paid as the media has changed ...she's trying to figure out a way to make you Millennials pay!!!

Personally, I don't think Stevie will record until the record industry has figured out this whole download situation...and I can't say I really blame her, it is her job after all and she doesn't strike me as financially stupid, an airhead otherways but smart moneywise...though my simple solution would be sell your cd's directly at the concert venue...casuals just love to buy stuff at concerts!!!

bottomline, just don't take Stevie's interview's seriously or personally, always purchase released stuff (but try to resist the temptation of multiples!! ), go to one concert per tour and try to discriminate and share your downloads with other online fans and the casuals in your real-life...you'll be a happier fan and maybe Stevie will be a happier artist...wait never mind, on second thought, Stevie is not very creative when she's happy...

anyway, for the record, the only other artist that has ever made me buy an new album without at least three hits has been Donna Summer. so I'm going to mozy on over to amazon and purchase her new cd...thanks for the head's up!!!

[David]

Originally Posted by HejiraNYC

Fortunately Stevie is still with a major label, so she is in a much better position to sell lots of albums. I think she could easily sell 300K copies without lifting a finger, and 500K if she hit the talk shows and print media hard. And if a single can be remixed into a pop hit, then maybe even more. Touring may not help, but she could draw larger audiences if people see her as a viable creative artist with a new, revamped show.

If I were the exec in charge of the studio with the Stevie Nicks recording contract, I'd arrange to sell her CDs at each stop on her tour because she tours constantly. I'd drop the price of the CD to about $10. I think the concertgoers would grab 'em up like hotcakes -- perhaps instead of all those dumb keychains & whathaveyou. Even in rotten economic times, when people go to concerts they are psychologically "primed" to spend more money than if they were just sauntering in to a music store or even browsing Amazon -- the same is true when people are herded onto cruise ships or into big resorts like Disneyworld. That's where you sell stuff that people wouldn't buy otherwise.

Plus, I disagree with strand about the recording locale. Stevie Nicks can record a CD in her home if she decided to. Her touring band can record for her: Al Ortiz & Carlos & whatever their names are. It doesn't need to & shouldn't anyway take more than a few months to record & mix. Production is a vague term these days: the artists themselves can produce, with friends or shiftless brothers, if need be. In short, recording doesn't need to be the Big Logistical & Social Event it used to be when Fleetwood Mac made TUSK or MIRAGE. You can record anywhere these days, & with just about anyone. It's all about choices.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by David

. . . Plus, I disagree with strand about the recording locale. Stevie Nicks can record a CD in her home if she decided to. Her touring band can record for her: Al Ortiz & Carlos & whatever their names are. It doesn't need to & shouldn't anyway take more than a few months to record & mix. Production is a vague term these days: the artists themselves can produce, with friends or shiftless brothers, if need be. In short, recording doesn't need to be the Big Logistical & Social Event it used to be when Fleetwood Mac made TUSK or MIRAGE. You can record anywhere these days, & with just about anyone. It's all about choices.

Well, she has been doing that with FM since at least TITN, for which she got and gets endlessly slamed BTW. According to her, she sends FM tapes and they send her stuff while she is on the road.

As for changing the midset from the studio to a PC esq setting. The woman is 60 and pretty much has recorded stuff at home, perhaps fleshed it out a little a la Sweet Girl before she crought it into The Dance sessions, and then done the studio thing. Maybe she is too old to change. And, honestly, why should she? She is still a sellable act on a large scale, though her solo arena days are way over.

[jwd]

Originally Posted by nikolaj

I seriously doubt that her intention was to insult her core fanbase, it just isn't logical, but for her to vent her frustration and concerns about her music being a viable product

I agree. I think it's more about being compensated for her work. It's a given that she loves her fans.

[HejiraNYC]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, she has been doing that with FM since at least TITN, for which she got and gets endlessly slamed BTW. According to her, she sends FM tapes and they send her stuff while she is on the road.

As for changing the midset from the studio to a PC esq setting. The woman is 60 and pretty much has recorded stuff at home, perhaps fleshed it out a little a la Sweet Girl before she crought it into The Dance sessions, and then done the studio thing. Maybe she is too old to change. And, honestly, why should she? She is still a sellable act on a large scale, though her solo arena days are way over.

Hey, if Mama can get her head around the concept of an iPod, anything is possible. Granted, I would bet you a million bucks she has Karen and Jesse to figure out how to load songs onto it.

I remember hearing stories about rock stars who used to send tapes around and how sometimes they would get erased by baggage screening equipment or baked/warped, etc. It's just not the same anymore. She no longer needs an engineer to record her demos. Yes, I am sure she loves the prestige of recording at The Village Recorder or The Hit Factory or those other places along Sunset Blvd., but the point is that she no longer has to book weeks/months of expensive studio time to work on songs. I am sure even Lindsey has retired the exacto knife.

[starshine]

Originally Posted by David

If I were the exec in charge of the studio with the Stevie Nicks recording contract, I'd arrange to sell her CDs at each stop on her tour because she tours constantly. I'd drop the price of the CD to about $10. I think the concertgoers would grab 'em up like hotcakes -- perhaps instead of all those dumb keychains & whathaveyou. Even in rotten economic times, when people go to concerts they are psychologically "primed" to spend more money than if they were just sauntering in to a music store or even browsing Amazon -- the same is true when people are herded onto cruise ships or into big resorts like Disneyworld. That's where you sell stuff that people wouldn't buy otherwise.

Plus, I disagree with strand about the recording locale. Stevie Nicks can record a CD in her home if she decided to. Her touring band can record for her: Al Ortiz & Carlos & whatever their names are. It doesn't need to & shouldn't anyway take more than a few months to record & mix. Production is a vague term these days: the artists themselves can produce, with friends or shiftless brothers, if need be. In short, recording doesn't need to be the Big Logistical & Social Event it used to be when Fleetwood Mac made TUSK or MIRAGE. You can record anywhere these days, & with just about anyone. It's all about choices.

You make some really great points here.....Stevie's had her own studio for sometime now.....those demos or outtakes or whatever are better produced than all the expensive producers/players etc you can get at the Record Plant etc.....if not better at times. She could do so much with what she already has....and make $$ off of it now instead of rehashing and being upset about it all.....what's done is done......do something and market yourself. Dolly Parton isn't upset she's doing something for herself and still making music (and she writes her own songs as well ) so why can't Stevie....and make her fans happy as well in the process?? It doesn't have to take months or yrs anymore....to me its just excuses really........I guess she just doesn't want to....which is sad speaking as a fan............IMO anyway......