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#1
06-10-2006, 12:05 AM
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My religious upbringing
I didn't have much religion around me at all growing up. We never went to a church on Sunday... or Saturday... or any other day of the week except maybe for a rummage sale or some kind of dinner at a church hall. My Grandmother had a huge Bible with full color painting reproductions and lists of births and deaths, but I can't imagine it was ever actually read by anyone. I had a small white Bible given to me by her on my 11th borthday. Later on I threw it against a wall and kicked it around when I was angry as a teen. I've managed to glue the cover back on and it's still with me, and the bangs visible to it are sort of embarassing but I feel a need to remember they are there.
I don't know what all was wrong with me as a teen. I didn't get picked on particularly, just once in awhile. I shoplifted, I was involved in minor drug dealing, I was on the street a lot. Oh well, I survived it all, it seems much worse out there for kids today. Anyway, my folks thought a religious school would maybe be the answer. My Mom even got a job to help pay for me to go and hopefully at least finish grade 10. My idea of religion up 'til then pretty much came from old Carter Family and Johnny Cash stuff my dad was into and with my Mom covered their songs with his band. Maybe Elvis was in there a bit. To me they had the real thing, something that was there that you called faith or hope or something but didn't really need to discuss a whole lot, but when the little hairs on you arm stood up hearing a gospel song you knew it was real. The school they found for me to go to wasn't really anything like this. It was all young teachers in sweaters and they had fish sickers all over everything. Their eyes were kind of glassy, the smiles a little empty. We had to watch the 700 Club tv shows taped from that morning in class sometimes. I didn't care for the singers they had on that show at all. Remember, this is Canada; we were there in a partly government subsidized classroom getting told crap like Satan was singing backwards on Beatle records, that almost all of us were possesed, that if we didn't fast for a boy with lukemia God would know. The only half way normal teacher at this place was the Bible teacher, if you can call being coached into coming up with answers to questions about why Elijah had to violently oppose the false agricultural God Baal. You learned what to say back and got a phony smile and condescension. One thing this school did do for me is help me feel relatively normal by comparison to the adults running the place. I felt my grip on reality was a heck of a lot firmer than everyone connected to this southern U.S. merchandizing ghetto I had stumbled into. And did they have the merchandise... Christian music nobody else had ever heard of, Christian self help cassettes and books, tv and radio stations you always skipped past before, a directory of all the businesses in town who displayed the 'secret' fish symbol on ads and signs... and the Amway sales force. No wonder people have felt these born again know they're types are in borderline cults! No wonder they are criticized as living on another isloated planet, many only see, read, or think what is supplied to them by these giant Christian companies. And wow, did these people love to talk, to tell you they know more about you than you yourself, like being possessed as just one example, but that must be a case of it takes one to know one! Basically I feel I was subjected to classic brainwashing techniques, and it would get more emotionally manipulative the more I supposedly resisted or rebelled. I just wanted to finish high school! Well, maybe, sometimes. If I'd have known more I think I should have written a letter something like what I'm writing now to the school board to try to get their public funding revoked. I just ended up back on the street again, a bit angrier maybe, and not feeling any closer to God just more baffled by the whole religion thing. I can still listen to old country & western (as they used to call it) gospel tunes and feel moved. Will the circle be unbroken, come to the church in the wildwood and all of that. I guess it's just most of us here's roots. I don't really care for the white people I know who get swept up in a consumerist fervor for Buddhism and all things Asian as being superior. It's just a variation on the born again Jim Bakker/700 club business, and most Japanese people I've known have told me they hate sushi and wish they could eat suteakus and hamuburugas all the time. I had a bit of Zen Buddhism growing up along with some martial arts, a lot of it was a load to me at the time, things about a circle of nothing surrounded by nothing and there isn't really any circle either. Well, all I'm saying is that in spite of all of the other noise going on around us, I value the words attributed to Christ and I can only say I try to be a Christian. I like having the Upanishads, the Quran, and other things around to read now and then when I feel drawn to. I have no knowledge of being saved already to be picked like cotton while others will be tortured horribly and can't wait for those end times to come oh boy oh boy. That stuff is nuts. I suspect there are many plain unexciting Muslims who shake their heads over others calling themself Muslim. It's weird but somehow, in spite of or because of going through some very bad times I am genuinely more thankful toward God than ever, and my faith feels a lot more solid under giving me strength. I shouldn't have hope, what with the religious zealotry and nutism running loose, what with the media hollering about asteroids and sick ducks and lefties and righties. I hope that circle will be reunited at 'the throne' as Johnny cash and the Statler Brothers sang. That feels right, to all see each other again, in a place we are probably unable to come close to imagining on this side, and that we must never try to hurry toward. I feel sorry that there is so much hostitlity toward the trappings and merchandise of religion that it might actually keep or delay people from simply reading and carrying what they can from any holy books. Sad because people do need something more, and music isn't going to fill the entire need, and sad that people even thinking they are not religious are doing the exact same thing as those who wrap themselves flamboyantly in religiousity; buying more and more stuff in some kind of competition or to fill space and time. The quiet peaceful voice can get drowned out, at least for awhile, but maybe my faith is in knowing that it always comes back and hope that we will listen. Not exactly chit chat is it? I write stuff and never have anywhere to put it, so I thought of this as a good waste basket... 
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#2
06-10-2006, 12:51 AM
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I can relate...
but from a different point of view.
I had religion FORCED upon me as a child...Never was asked once if I wanted to have the choice of attending services, I was forced to go or be punished. I believe we were sent to Church to be babysat moreso than to understand about religion. My 2 older brothers were baptised into the Baptist faith, I refused. I can clearly remember the church we attended did not want us to attend after our Father died in 1977 (Our Mom never knew that), So when we 3 boys left for church on Sunday's, Mom never knew that we skipped Sunday school & the main services...That happened for about 3 years until we were totally kicked out of church (The bus driver for the Sunday school bus was trying to get me to sing when I didnt feel like singing his pathetic song, So I spit right in his face...And NO!, I have no regrets whatsoever.) It caused me to hate being told what to do as a child, which is why I am self-centered as an adult. I will never have anyone ever tell me that I have to do this or that or even worse try to use intimidation to make e bend to their needs, I will decide on my own accord what I feel like doing...And the best word in my world is a simple "NO!". Deb can tell anyone who asks I am not the easiest nor friendliest person in the world to be around (I am very stubborn and very anti-social) My view on religion has caused me to avoid any/all things relating towards religion. I dont read a bible, I dont pray for myself or for others (The night before my Mom passed away, the hospital called my sister to ask if it would be ok for a priest to pray for our Mother's soul...I told Lesa to tell them "NO!", Mom would not want any religious person to pray for her life/soul). When Deb & I were married we had a normal ceremony, Minus the church...That was my request. When my Mom died, her funeral was held at the chapel at the funeral home, not a church...Thankfully I could live with that (But that was what Mom wanted, So I had no problems with that request). I feel sad that most people take religion to a zealot state of thinking, You either do things their way or your a 'sinner'. People have been blinded by these fakehealers and even today they still believe each & every word they spout from the pulpit. Why should the blind follow the even more blind? Example is the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka (Very similar to the Church I was forced to attend as a child), Those people are demented and use religion in their own bastardized way. They take passages of the bible and interupt each passage in their own demented way to only benefit themselves and only themselves, So they can arrogantly be sanctimonious (Or however you spell it). I do believe there are alot of good people who do follow religions, I do not for a second consider them to be my ever popular word a "Relig-a-tard". That word is reserved for those who think they can be the judge of someone's life when they should be the judge of their life, and ONLY their damned life. I do believe in a God, I do believe in Jesus, but I can never believe in most organized religions...Just cant...So for them I will surely be doing the backstroke in the lake of fire during my 'judgement day'. Last edited by estranged4life; 06-10-2006 at 12:54 AM..
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#3
06-10-2006, 01:10 AM
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When someone is dying I would tend to want to go with what they want. Unless they ask about something spiritual or whatever I wouldn't feel comfortable promoting anything. It's the ultimate in a captive audience and a time when a person is most vulnerable, the second worst thing being forcing things on little kids, but maybe the organizations keep counts on how many saved, like how many hamburgers sold, and will present a list upon arriving at the supposed pearly gates. Helping someone is need is what it's supposed to be about, "what you do for the least you do for me", not converting souls. Another kind of materialism in that. Some people get comfort from rituals and that's okay, but chanting the same incantation over and over... I don't know about God but if I knew somebody who said the same thing to me over and over I'd think they were a bit thick or something.
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#4
06-10-2006, 05:27 AM
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__________________
. Watching the drama of the Ledge since 2001.
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#5
06-10-2006, 05:43 AM
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I believe in God because there was a time where I asked for proof, and I got it. I believe Jesus was a real person, probably a very good person, but I'm not sure I believe he was the child of God any more than any of us are. I don't claim to be positive of it, it's just what I feel. I also believe that if I am in fact wrong, God is OK with that because I try to be a good person and make a difference.
__________________
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#6
06-10-2006, 10:15 AM
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#7
06-10-2006, 10:44 AM
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I was baptized an Anglican when I was 3 or 4. We soon left that church because my mother felt unwelcome - she was divorced and poor, not much use to them. When I was 9 we started attending an Evangelical (an Alliance Church for anyone familiar with them) style church. Being 9 years old and enjoying my Sundays, I wasn't at all keen on going. On my first attempt at Sunday School (Jr. Church as they called it), we played biblical baseball, and I ACCIDENTALLY hit someone in the head with a metal baseball bat. So, I wasn't so keen to go back. This meant I stayed in the service with my mother and listened to the sermon. Throughout all the time I spent at this church, I'm not sure I ever fully connected with what the lead pastor preached. Many others seemed to, but it was just rabbit trails and concepts that were over my head. I went through a phase where I would pretend I was sick so I wouldn't have to go. I used the same logic for school, seeing my dad, extra-curricula activities, and almost everything else. I was a little screwed up then. Eventually, my mom threatened my T.V. priveledges and I started to feel better. My mother suddenly felt the need to be baptized into this church. So I sat on the side of the river and watched. And so began my years of struggle regarding my own baptism. I didn't buy into the "outward symbol" which the church put such a heavy weight on. I also felt so guilty about all my shortcoming and "sins" (thanks to the church) that I wasn't sure I could do the baptism thing. I mean, if baptism was a clean slate, what happened once I dirtied it up again? Once I entered my teens, I started attending the church's youth group gatherings. When they started a worship team (a band that plays the songs you sing in church), I joined. At the time, my best friend was joining, and I was getting a guitar for Christmas. It was May 23, 2001 that I "accepted Christ into my life" and "got saved". Looking back on it, I was under pressure from so many evangelized teens who spouted the propaganda of new Christianity at me. "So...Sarah...when did you get saved?" I had no answer for them. I remember shaking and keeping my eyes closed. Afterwards I was led to a small room as my youth group cheered for me. I'm sure I filled out some form and was added to some list of victories for that particular speaker. This is where Christianity started to have a big impact on me. My church hired a new youth pastor who really took the reins. I got very involved in the worship ministry, and loved it. I made some very dear friends and got to do some cool things. I was very happy and very content in my faith. It's easy to believe in God when things are going well. My youth pastor was a bit of a radical in the fact that he actually encouraged teens to think for themselves instead of being brainwashed by their idiot parents. Of course, this did not go over well with the board. My pastor was given an ultimadum: submit to new regulations from the board, or clean out his desk. Dan knew he couldn't change who he was or what he thought was right for the sake of a paycheck, so he left. At that point, everything that had been important to me was shattered. Without Dan's guidance, the worship team was on it's last leg, and would soon be dissolved completely when our other leader, unable to handle Dan's exit, also stepped down. The youth group was also in shambles, with most of my friend refusing to attend after how our youth pastor was treated. My faith in God started to get cracked. I asked him not to let this happen...he did nothing. I tried to stick out the church thing for a while. However, my mother had left to explore the Catholic faith, and I was on my own. I was also starting to critically think for myself and examine life with logic. I realized how much Christian propagand I had believed and shared with others. I regret that some of it was expressed on this board, and I take it all back. Every time I would seek God out for some truth, the Bible just condemned me for being imperfect. Bad things kept happening to me, and God did nothing despite my desperate pleas. All I had to rely on was myself and the people that cared about me. A Christian might argue that was God, but I don't know. People are people. God could have stoped it all from happening. Christians continue to disgust me, and right now the closest thing I am is Agnostic. I just don't know anymore. God was so real to me once, but now I feel nothing. Was it all in my head? My hormones? My emotions? Coincidence? I'm actually the happiest I've ever been because I don't walk around feeling guilty all the time. I know there are good Christians out there because when I could no longer stay in my mother's house, they took me it. I guess my philosophy now is to just get up every morning and live the best day that I can. Do the best that I can. If that's not good enough for any sort of higher power, then I'm sorry - it's all I can do. Woosh. Suddenly this is a very long post. Clearly, I needed to get this off my chest.
__________________
...Sarah
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#8
06-10-2006, 11:11 AM
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Sounds very familiar
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It was sad that those who seem to have money think they can purchase a bigger part of heaven or "get the better seat" in the pew of the afterlife than those of us who did not have the extra money to obnoxiously flaunt within the structure of a religious institution. Quote:
As for heaven & hell, As my Mom loved to say, "Heaven will be awaiting me when I die because every second I am awake I am in hell."
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#9
06-10-2006, 11:17 AM
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#10
06-10-2006, 01:25 PM
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Sangin' it with the Fabulous Flying Burrito Bros.
 Further along we'll know more about it, further along we'll understand why, cheer up my brothers, walk in the sunlight, we'll understand it all in good time.
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#11
06-10-2006, 04:00 PM
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I was raised a Catholic from ages 5 until I was 17 because that is what religion my mother was raised with. I even attended private Catholic school which probably ruined me for life
 Then at 17, I decided I wanted to be LDS and I was interested in that since I was in middle school. Blame the Osmonds for that one, people I even married an LDS man whose family went to the LDS church. Many are kind and beautiful people with good hearts but I never could wrap around the idea about why they had polygramy back in the mid 1800's and why they had to build all those VERY expensive Temples all over the world and why I had to pay alot of money to attend church and volunteer my services for years as a Sunday School teacher or teach Relief Society classes, ect. If I wanted to take off for the weekend it was my duty to find another teacher for my class It seemed I had to use my own money for everything that was involved in church. Didn't matter if we had no money to pay for feeding our kids or had a roof over our heads while we were attending college. They wanted that tithing money and that is all that really mattered to them. I quit going to church one day. Just cold turkey-quit. I had enough. The final straw was our daughter was involved in Drama. The play was switched to a Sunday evening. Our Bishop told us that he didn't want any of the LDS kids attending the play or being a part of the play Told my husband and our children that I had enough with churches after that little incident. Our daughter was in that play and our family sit in the front row too I had enough of the gossiping women and men that was in our ward. Some would be kind to your face and then stab you in the back later on. I had enough of seeing how a few men treated their wives (as servants and possessions) in that church. I had enough of throwing my money to the wind so this certain church could build more elaborate Temples and church buildings. I truely feel more at peace sitting under a tree by a beautiful lake someplace in Oregon or Montana where we have gone on vacations this year. To me, church and religion is a trapping and all they want is your money and your soul. To me, churches are just another business and they will do, say and use anything to get your attention and your business. God is not a church. God is everywhere. God is helping people, not wearing them down with strict rules and alot of doctrine that is man-made. I do pray but it won't be in a church. My personal relationship is with God not some guy who calls himself a priest, minister, deacon, Bishop or President of a Church.
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#12
06-10-2006, 08:14 PM
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That was very interesting to read. Insightful as well. Baptized Catholic, raised w/Native American religion. And actually, that is exactly chit chat.
__________________
"Do not be afraid! I am Esteban de la Sexface!" "In order to live free and happily, you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice" Whehyll I can do EHYT!! Wehyll I can make it WAHN moh thihme! (wheyllit'sA reayllongwaytogooo! To say goodbhiiy!) -
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#14
06-11-2006, 10:59 AM
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Wow.
This thread is very interesting. Seeing how differently everyone was raised. I am a Christian. Was not raised with an Iron Fist, but my mom and I went to church off and on throughout my youth usually with other family members. I decided on my own to be baptised in my church back in...I think it was 1998 or something, can't remember exactly. One morning after church, I just felt it on my heart to do so, nobody talked me into anything, I just wanted to. We went to many various churches with my cousins, aunts and one uncle. My cousin and I always got reprimanded by my aunt and mom for being silly and talking during church. LOL I don't identify with a particular religion, I just say I'm Christian. I did attend a Baptist school from kindergarten through 8th grade and went to maybe 2-3 church services during those years. It was a great school and I had a good education.
I remember going to Vacation Bible School but only remember making crafty things like some paper keys with Scripture on it. LOL I went to a couple other Sunday School services, but don't remember them really. I had a goal of reading the entire Bible and I achieved that quite a few years ago. The ONLY One who can judge a person is God. God knows our hearts and intentions. Things are complicated with people out there claiming to be doing God's work (terrorists and psychos). I just don't think that God would tell someone to go murder and hurt people. Doesn't flow with the whole, you know...God is Love thing. LOL I believe that God does get angry (remembering that Jesus got angry at the men selling things in the temple) and will deal with people who He sees as a dead soul. I'm talking people who are cold and dead inside....with black hearts, no remorse and won't even consider changing. These are my beliefs.  I believe in the whole "Live the life" philosophy. I'm not a preacher...I'd rather live a life showing what kind of Christian I am, rather than bark at people what a Christian I am apparently not.
__________________
**Christy**
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#15
06-11-2006, 12:49 PM
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 Beautifully put!!!I went to vacation Bible school once - a kid threw a Bible at me, and when I went to throw it back I got in trouble, he didn't. It still haunts me 
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