The technical side of Stevie's music -

[Ghost_Tracker]

HI, I had a question for the musicians in here - what is it, in terms of the TECHNICAL aspects of it, that makes Stevie's music so special, beautiful, etc.? A lot of times on the Lindsey board, people have talked about the chords he uses, A-minor, G-major, all those types of things - I pretty much mean in those types of terms.

I was hoping that people might be able to answer both in "general" terms, as well as picking one or two examples. Whatever you have time for, though, it's "all good." Thanks!

[David]

You put this on two different boards so do you want people to respond on both boards?

I say nothing intrinsic to Stevie's chords that makes her songs good. Your mileage may vary.

[snowman]

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

HI, I had a question for the musicians in here - what is it, in terms of the TECHNICAL aspects of it, that makes Stevie's music so special, beautiful, etc.? A lot of times on the Lindsey board, people have talked about the chords he uses, A-minor, G-major, all those types of things - I pretty much mean in those types of terms.

I was hoping that people might be able to answer both in "general" terms, as well as picking one or two examples. Whatever you have time for, though, it's "all good." Thanks!

I think it's the quality and character of her voice.

[Livia]

If we're just talking about chords, most of Stevie's songs are most likely written in the key of C. In other words, she only plays the white keys on the piano.

As for what Courtney Love said, about Stevie's songwriting being very sophisticated, "because she changes keys," I believe that is part Stevie, but mostly "producer de jour."

Stevie has a great EAR for music, and is undoubtedly one of the best harmonizers, and melody writers, on the planet...she knows what sounds good, but she isn't consciously telling herself, or anyone, "Let's try this in E minor," (the saddest key of all....a little Spinal Tap humor there)...

[turquoise5]

Because of Stevie's (self-described) limited ability on guitar and piano, her songs tend to be in "simple" keys, i.e., keys with few sharps or flats in them.

A minor has no sharps or flats, and she has written a ton of songs in this key...Rhiannon, Sisters of the Moon, Straight Back to name a few.

She uses F major a lot too...it has only one flat and is fairly easy to play on the piano...Gypsy, Twisted, and Sara come to mind as F major songs.

Finally, a lot of songs use what might be called "modal" tuning...in other words, not a set minor or major key, but songs that move up and down the piano keyboard with various chords that are almost all easy to play on the white keys. Nightbird, Dreams, Outside the Rain, How Still My Love, Crystal, Edge of Seventeen, Mirror Mirror, No Spoken Word are some examples. (a mode is a scale that is neither major or minor, for example, try playing the white keys from one D to the next D on a piano keyboard, or one E to the next, and you'll hear what I mean)

To my ear, modal tuning gets away from typically major or minor-keyed songs that are so prevalent in pop music and this is part of the magicalness of Stevie's songs.

Courtney Love's comment about Stevie changing keys can be heard in a song like Has Anyone Ever Written (starts in B flat and moves to C by the final chorus).

Hope that helps!

[David]

Originally Posted by turquoise5

Finally, a lot of songs use what might be called "modal" tuning...in other words, not a set minor or major key, but songs that move up and down the piano keyboard with various chords that are almost all easy to play on the white keys. Nightbird, Dreams, Outside the Rain, How Still My Love, Crystal, Edge of Seventeen, Mirror Mirror, No Spoken Word are some examples.

Crystal is in a major key & Edge of 17 is in a minor key.

Courtney Love's comment about Stevie changing keys can be heard in a song like Has Anyone Ever Written (starts in B flat and moves to C by the final chorus).

Courtney should give props to Keith Olsen, who wrote the music (& the modulation) to that one.

[amber]

Originally Posted by David

Crystal is in a major key & Edge of 17 is in a minor key.
Courtney should give props to Keith Olsen, who wrote the music (& the modulation) to that one.

Crystal strikes me as having some good amount of sharps or flats not in the key sig though, b/c how it comes out doesn't sound completely major, a la Don't Stop. That song is major major.
I remember those suprise sharps and flats from band - and I think Crystal has some.

[David]

Originally Posted by amber

Crystal strikes me as having some good amount of sharps or flats not in the key sig though, b/c how it comes out doesn't sound completely major, a la Don't Stop. That song is major major.
I remember those suprise sharps and flats from band - and I think Crystal has some.

I'm staring at the sheet music now, notated in G. The only sharp I see is F, which is the only sharp in the G major/E minor key signature. I don't see any accidentals. The modulation, as I look at it on paper, appears to move squarely from the tonic of G major to the relative minor, E, & back to G & so forth. I'm sorry, amber, but I personally don't see anything here that would otherwise indicate that the song is in anything but G major (or relative E minor). So insofar as you said "Crystal" isn't all major, I certainly agree. My real point was that it wasn't modal.

However, the more I think about it, I think it is sort of interesting for the piece to kick off firmly in a major--in which everything resolves to the tonic major--& then drift poignantly to the relative minor, & of course the song tags out in the minor. That's a pretty thing, although I'm not sure that it's necessarily novel in terms of composition when you consider all the pop-folk songs of the 1970s.

I hope you'll take my comments in the spirit in which they're offered--as discussion, as exchange of ideas--& not as browbeating or bullying.

[amber]

Originally Posted by David

I'm staring at the sheet music now, notated in G. The only sharp I see is F, which is the only sharp in the G major/E minor key signature. I don't see any accidentals. The modulation, as I look at it on paper, appears to move squarely from the tonic of G major to the relative minor, E, & back to G & so forth. I'm sorry, amber, but I personally don't see anything here that would otherwise indicate that the song is in anything but G major (or relative E minor). So insofar as you said "Crystal" isn't all major, I certainly agree. My real point was that it wasn't modal.

However, the more I think about it, I think it is sort of interesting for the piece to kick off firmly in a major--in which everything resolves to the tonic major--& then drift poignantly to the relative minor, & of course the song tags out in the minor. That's a pretty thing, although I'm not sure that it's necessarily novel in terms of composition when you consider all the pop-folk songs of the 1970s.

I hope you'll take my comments in the spirit in which they're offered--as discussion, as exchange of ideas--& not as browbeating or bullying.

Naturally I don't care about addressing your real point, I take what I want and run with it!!!!
Seriously, I actually don't know what modal means, but I'm glad I wasn't hearing things as far as the major/minor.

I think it's interesting how it drifts poignantly as well. I did definitely recognize that there is majorness in Crystal.
Sadly, I have eschewed many songs for long periods of time because they don't start out the way I want, and I definitely prefer minor keys. Major pisses me off sometimes.
Wild Heart is a good example of a song I didn't like at all for a long time. Can you shed some light on that? It strikes me that WH isn't really minor or major, or maybe it's both, but whatever it is, it reminds me of the flat, bland jazz chords that piss me off. I don't know if they're really jazz chords, but they have a lack of emotion and flatness that strikes me that way.
Actually, this was very enlightening, I have no problem at all with you explaining/correcting my vague thoughts with actual musical facts. I'm not an infidel, after all! Although it's weird that I was in band for six years and didn't learn about Modals and some other stuff.
But remember - that F# can make all the difference! And why is the F always sharp? I totally remember that from band...
Also I don't understand "tonic from G major to a relative..." And why is G major the same as relative E minor???? (You don't really have to 'splain this if you don't want)
Also, E and A minor are my favorite chords.

[David]

Originally Posted by amber

Wild Heart is a good example of a song I didn't like at all for a long time.

I'm very glad you came round, actually! WH is one of Stevie's best.

[amber]

Originally Posted by David

I'm very glad you came round, actually! WH is one of Stevie's best.

I was suprised to see that Sandy wrote it. It screams pure disjointed Stevie emotion.
Oh, I think I'll send you that thing.
It really is a vocal tour de force. I still don't like the music as much as I could.
But I can't resist the simultaneous laugh/love of the parts where she's screaming about the children being hopelessly enchanted, and the vocal layering and histrionics therein. But it's fine, I love laughing and loving at the same time!
And wouldn't I have to, to be a true Stevie fan?

Yes, many of her songs it's taken me a long time to like. Many. Which is odd for someone who also touts her genius. But I enjoy her genius inconsistency, I feel like I understand that, and I feel like it's okay.