Stevie's TimeSpace

StreetAngel86 · #1 03-10-2006, 07:52 PM

okay...i've wanted to ask this for a while
especially after the other week when i started watching *that* MTV interview

there's no doubt Stevie has a **** load of people around her.....who work for her, who live with her, her family etc

She's practically anaesthetized to the point of being comatose.

How the hell did they not notice what was happening to her or that it got to a point that it was REALLY REALLY bad.

I mean why didn't anyone do something........did they?
that really shocks me

Ghost_Tracker · #2 03-10-2006, 08:01 PM

Well, here's my opinion - I'm kinda generalizing, I mean, I can't point to specific people and say "this is true about this person," but -
It was all of 'em. Every single damn one. Understand? Every single person in Stevie's environment was just as blitzed out as she was, to the same degree. This was one big non-stop party from 1975 to 1986 or so including everyone. And if you weren't inside then you were outside. Stevie just ran into trouble faster than the rest - perhaps because she's physically smaller than the rest, or perhaps because she was more vulnerable. She's also been much more open and honest about all this because she wanted to try to help others. But - yeah - it was everyone. And I mean every one.

MacMan · #3 03-10-2006, 08:27 PM

Someone actually had the balls to ask Lori this very type of question in the "Ask Lori" section on the nickfix...

[Q&A]

from Greg in San Francisco

Since you and Sharon are so close to Stevie, how come you were unable to prevent her addition to pain killers and cocoaine? How could you NOT notice she was taking drugs?! I haven't heard any statements from you or Sharon taking any responsibility for taking care of someone thousands of people love and care about.

Lori's answer:

Hello Greg...
This is an interesting question, and a very heavy one. It’s also rather personal, and not one that I feel is really any body’s business but mine, Sharon’s, and Stevie’s. However, I will say that when one decides to get into drugs, whether their friends try to stop them or not, if they don’t want to stop, there’s not much anyone can do.... even those who have had interventions. Often times if you push an addict too hard, they cut you out of their life, then making it impossible to help them at all. Ultimately, it is the addict’s choice to stop. I could tell you of many addicts who went to rehab, and overdosed after they came out. Stevie is an extremely strong and determined woman, and no one has ever been able to tell her what to do. She is a woman who makes her own choices, and she is the one who made the choice to stop doing drugs (and smoking, by the way)!

Villavic · #4 03-10-2006, 09:07 PM

Very interesting, i posted about this, years ago. Not only about Stevie but in general. I said record companies don't mind at all, and they squeeze artists like oranges until they are completely dry.
I mean they don't care they are addicts (record companies, managers, etc). Mick said in his book that they had a coke supplier during the Rumours-Tusk era concerts and sessions, who went with them. They even wanted to give him credits in teh album (!)
And obvioulsy everybody knew and didn´t care.

That, plus what Lori said, makes very difficult somebody can get away from drugs

Ghost_Tracker · #5 03-10-2006, 09:10 PM

By the way, I'd like to make an attempt at translating from "Nicksian" into English here:

"No one ever told me it could hurt you" means,

"I thought I could get away with it. I was wrong."

I'm NOT trying to put her down - it's a mistake many people make in many different ways. But it's the truth, and it's at the very core of it, in my opinion.

MacMan · #6 03-10-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

By the way, I'd like to make an attempt at translating from "Nicksian" into English here:

"No one ever told me it could hurt you" means,

"I thought I could get away with it. I was wrong."

I'm NOT trying to put her down - it's a mistake many people make in many different ways. But it's the truth, and it's at the very core of it, in my opinion.

Not necessarily. Back in the day - people never thought smoking cigarettes could harm you either until years later.

Ghost_Tracker · #7 03-10-2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Villavic

Very interesting, i posted about this, years ago. Not only about Stevie but in general. I said record companies don't mind at all, and they squeeze artists like oranges until they are completely dry.
I mean they don't care they are addicts (record companies, managers, etc). Mick said in his book that they had a coke supplier during the Rumours-Tusk era concerts and sessions, who went with them. They even wanted to give him credits in teh album (!)
And obvioulsy everybody knew and didn´t care.

I think maybe the record companies, etc. have changed a lot since then. But yeah, back then - Jesus, WHAT a mess! They were freaking notorious.
And up to a certain point, I really agree about the "didn't care" part - yeah, for sure. At least as corporate entities, they just viewed the band as a money-making machine and nothing more, and the rule of the day was "strike while the iron's hot." And like I said - if you weren't "inside" - you were "OUT-side."

. . . . ya dig???

I'm not saying they weren't responsible for their own behaviors as individuals, but there was HORRENDOUS peer pressure and pressure to perform and huge energy and effort demanded, and the whole thing just became this big huge unbelievable mess. Not to be a bummer, I'm just saying that there was that side to it. As Stevie said in one of her songs (and many others) "And the dream became a nightmare."

Ghost_Tracker · #8 03-10-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacMan

Not necessarily. Back in the day - people never thought smoking cigarettes could harm you either until years later.

To be perfectly honest I only agree with that to a point. I've read older books, for example, in which one character will warn another to stop smoking because it was unhealty and "was going to kill him or her some day." And certainly by 1975 everyone knew that cocaine was dangerous and addictive.

StreetAngel86 · #9 03-10-2006, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost_Tracker

Well, here's my opinion - I'm kinda generalizing, I mean, I can't point to specific people and say "this is true about this person," but -
It was all of 'em. Every single damn one. Understand? Every single person in Stevie's environment was just as blitzed out as she was, to the same degree. This was one big non-stop party from 1975 to 1986 or so including everyone. And if you weren't inside then you were outside. Stevie just ran into trouble faster than the rest - perhaps because she's physically smaller than the rest, or perhaps because she was more vulnerable. She's also been much more open and honest about all this because she wanted to try to help others. But - yeah - it was everyone. And I mean every one.

I was actually referring to Klonopin Stevie not the coked out one
because they were NOT on it....unlike coke & alcohol and stuff like that where u can generalize (i understand what your post meant and i agree)

thanks for posting that MacMan. i'd never read that..sounds like exactly something i would ask...but never ever would

i don't agree with lori though

i would rather lose a friendship and have someone hate me than have them dead.

David · #10 03-10-2006, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StreetAngel86

okay...i've wanted to ask this for a while
especially after the other week when i started watching *that* MTV interview

there's no doubt Stevie has a **** load of people around her.....who work for her, who live with her, her family etc

She's practically anaesthetized to the point of being comatose.

How the hell did they not notice what was happening to her or that it got to a point that it was REALLY REALLY bad.

I mean why didn't anyone do something........did they?
that really shocks me

I attribute it to a sort of wayward mass stupidity. It affected not only Stevie's camp -- many of whom were (are?) sycophants (ass-kissers) & favor curriers & leeches & so forth -- but also the fans. I remember all through the worst parts of the Behind the Mask Tour & the Timespace Tour that dozens of fans all, in blind love & devotion, thought Stevie was at the top of her game, & they wrote up these reviews for the fanzines of these shows & each time they would say things like, "She has never been better" & "Stevie looks & sounds gorgeous & healthy."

It was a form of mass hysteria, really--the sense of destruction & disloyalty that would result by speaking the truth. And part of that was a collective will to not see what was plainly in front of them, a collective myopia, as it were.

StreetAngel86 · #11 03-10-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I attribute it to a sort of wayward mass stupidity. It affected not only Stevie's camp -- many of whom were (are?) sycophants (ass-kissers) & favor curriers & leeches & so forth --

yes. this is what i suspected
keep Stevie happy
she will keep me on her payroll

Nikolaj · #12 03-11-2006, 06:54 AM

[QUOTE=Ghost_Tracker]By the way, I'd like to make an attempt at translating from "Nicksian" into English here:

"No one ever told me it could hurt you" means,
"I thought I could get away with it. I was wrong."

My first thought is one not too profound, but i dont think i've ever seen anyone mention it-- The fact is that cocaine, even in the 70s, wink, is/was illegal. So she says nobody told you that it could be addictive-the fact is that it was an illegal thing to do, and the rock and roll high life was (is?) more appealing than obeying laws, so that alone makes her accountable for her actions. She chose to ignore it was an illegal thing to do...and yes, it was all around LA in the 70s and 80s (coke) but people sure knew before very long that it was addictive, wicked addictive for some.. Richard Pryor setting himself on fire smoking coke circa 1980 and John Belushi's (somewhat) cocaine-related death circa 1982 brought a lot of attention to the demons of cocaine..But the people really enjoying it maybe didn't want to listen.
Also, my doctor tells me klonopin is an extremely beneficial drug for many, many people, and she precribes it with confidence (no, I'm not on it, nor want to be, partly because i know of the difficulties Stevie Nicks had with it)--Yet, i also see my doctor's point when i informed her of Stevie's crusade against it..my doc said 'that is SO irresponsible of her. It's a beneficial drug. Because SHE abused it and became addicted to it, that's supposed to negate the fact that the FDA and the medical community recognize when taken as directed that it's an extremely useful medication?" She paused then said: "because a rock star who abused cocaine, alcohol, and who knows what else, and then abused Klonopin, it makes it an evil drug? Grow up, Kolya!" -- I said 'but i don't think its a given that she abused the drug (Klonopin)-- and then my doc said 'I read about the falling into a fireplace and busting her head open while on Klonopin-- that would NOT happen if she herself didn't SELF-over medicate."
While i don't think it's useful or kind, or even like myself very much to comment on all this, as I've respected and enjoyed her performances and voice since my childhood-- i do see a pattern of her BLAMING others rather than accepting the responsibility of her own actions, which a person with free will has a right to do, to make her own decisions... So, whether 'no-one ever told me it was addictive', 'no-one ever told me that was a bad vocal i put down' (during the RAL era), ' no-one told me the breast implants could leak'-- it was still her actions of choosing coke, recording when she and her voice were fried, and getting implants that caused the problems- it was NOT her being "not told" about the dangers, that caused her the problems, yknow?

So why blame others? And it was rather common knowledge that breast implants were risky (which is why saline began to replace silicone) it was well reported that women could get sick from implants, if not the various, specific dangers being exactly spelled out-She chose to have it done.
Yet when someone does get honest or tough with her ("my manager told me if i didnt lose ** pounds my career was over. So i fired him, then i lost the weight"), she won't really listen. Also her perogative.
So i think Sharon Celani's response to Greg in SanFran was actually very deep, and if ya read between the lines, its like 'no-one can tell her what to do, she had to make the decision herself to stop drugs'-- Which is true and admirable. But it's true ....and human.... that her own actions were why she had the problems and she has a tendency to say 'if someone had told me', etc....
And i do think my doc is right...if ya crack yer head open on a fireplace and don't notice it, you're abusing your meds! So do we really know for sure Klonopin is bad? I don't want to find out, so I'm grateful to Stevie for that. Too bad she couldnt have warned me about Wellbutrin ... not harmful, exactly...just useless (for me) --

wheart · #13 03-11-2006, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I attribute it to a sort of wayward mass stupidity. It affected not only Stevie's camp -- many of whom were (are?) sycophants (ass-kissers) & favor curriers & leeches & so forth -- but also the fans. I remember all through the worst parts of the Behind the Mask Tour & the Timespace Tour that dozens of fans all, in blind love & devotion, thought Stevie was at the top of her game, & they wrote up these reviews for the fanzines of these shows & each time they would say things like, "She has never been better" & "Stevie looks & sounds gorgeous & healthy."

It was a form of mass hysteria, really--the sense of destruction & disloyalty that would result by speaking the truth. And part of that was a collective will to not see what was plainly in front of them, a collective myopia, as it were.

Good point. I do remember reading all sorts of glowing reviews during that time period and just scratching my head. I mean, she was horrible on the BTM and TS tours. But I do wonder about one thing. Stevie has said in many interviews that she was "fine" after Betty Ford but her friends/family were worried about her and made her go to a shrink who put her on Klonopin. I can't see Stevie doing anything she doesn't want to do so I have to wonder if she was so "fine", why did she go in the first place? And why agree to start taking such a potent medication? Did her doctor not advise her of the side effects???

AliceLover · #14 03-11-2006, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I attribute it to a sort of wayward mass stupidity. It affected not only Stevie's camp -- many of whom were (are?) sycophants (ass-kissers) & favor curriers & leeches & so forth -- but also the fans. I remember all through the worst parts of the Behind the Mask Tour & the Timespace Tour that dozens of fans all, in blind love & devotion, thought Stevie was at the top of her game, & they wrote up these reviews for the fanzines of these shows & each time they would say things like, "She has never been better" & "Stevie looks & sounds gorgeous & healthy."

It was a form of mass hysteria, really--the sense of destruction & disloyalty that would result by speaking the truth. And part of that was a collective will to not see what was plainly in front of them, a collective myopia, as it were.

David you have to admit the first few months of the BTM tour for her were Awesome. She was really moving on stage, wore mini skirt, and white dresses. Then BOOM she gained 30 pounds!

StreetAngel86 · #15 03-11-2006, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheart

Good point. I do remember reading all sorts of glowing reviews during that time period and just scratching my head. I mean, she was horrible on the BTM and TS tours. But I do wonder about one thing. Stevie has said in many interviews that she was "fine" after Betty Ford but her friends/family were worried about her and made her go to a shrink who put her on Klonopin. I can't see Stevie doing anything she doesn't want to do so I have to wonder if she was so "fine", why did she go in the first place? And why agree to start taking such a potent medication? Did her doctor not advise her of the side effects???

you know i've wondered about this too.
i can see the people pleaser part of her personality wanting to do things to appease those around her especially her parents.

however

i know what she SAYS but i don't totally believe it
i used to but the more and more i thought about it
i reckon she probably was clinically depressed at some point

I know she's Stevie Nicks & could probably get wotever she wanted but WHAT the hell doctor would prescribe her meds that she didn't need

and if they knew who she was and that she had just come off a coke addiction all the more shame on them

forget the side effects
she's going to a doctor....therapist wotever
obviously getting prescriptions refilled
and they didn't realize how it was f#cking her up and take her OFF it?
I know Stevie says how she was living in a cloud and it's all a blur so I cannot seriously blame her in knowing she had a problem...because in some respect i can see her really not knowing it was her meds making her feel that way. there was a lot of **** going on in her life so you know, it could be a lot of things. but like 5+ years and her doctors didn't stop her refills....?