Band Face Off - Round 34

[trackaghost]

Another close round as Joni Mitchell won the battle of the singer-songwriters, beating Carole King with one vote.

Round 34: angtsy female rockers, one from the 70s and one who made her name in the 90s. Who will you choose?


The results so far...
Round 1: Petty defeats Springsteen - 36 to 19
Round 2: Led Zeppelin defeat The Who - 22 to 19
Round 3: Madonna defeats Sheryl Crow/Kate Bush - 24 to 13/10
Round 4: The Beatles defeat Rolling Stones/U2 - 23 to 16/14
Round 5: Guns N Roses defeat Bon Jovi/Metallica - 17 to 13/12
Round 6: Heart defeat Blondie/The Pretenders - 23 to 16/6
Round 7: The Beach Boys defeat The Kinks/The Byrds - 24 to 10/10
Round 8: Johnny Cash defeats Elvis Presley/Roy Orbison - 20 to 19/7
Round 9: Abba defeats The Carpenters - 25 to 15
Round 10: Prince defeats Jimi Hendrix/Lenny Kravitz - 24 to 15/3
Round 11: No Doubt defeat Garbage/Hole - 27 to 11/9
Round 12: Bob Dylan defeats Neil Young - 26 to 25
Round 13: Dolly Parton defeats Emmylou Harris/Linda Ronstadt - 20 to 17/9
Round 14: Marvin Gaye defeats Aretha Franklin/Stevie Wonder/Diana Ross - 14 to 11/10/2
Round 15: David Bowie defeats Lou Reed/Iggy Pop - 38 to 5/2
Round 16: Talking Heads defeat The Clash - 21 to 19
Round 17: Billie Holiday defeats Ella Fitzgerald - 25 to 7
Round 18: The Eagles defeat Lynyrd Skynyrd - 30 to 17
Round 19: The Doors defeat Jefferson Airplane - 22 to 17
Round 20: Elvis Costello defeats Sting - 19 to 13
Round 21: Eurythmics defeat Depeche Mode/New Order - 27 to 7/6
Round 22: Duran Duran defeat Tears For Fears - 21 to 15
Round 23: Tori Amos defeats Alanis Morissette/Jewel - 21 to 11/8
Round 24: REM defeat Coldplay - 34 to 9
Round 25: The White Stripes defeat Beck - 19 to 18
Round 26: Pink Floyd defeat Radiohead - 30 to 9
Round 27: The Killers defeat Franz Ferdinand/Maroon 5 - 15 to 14/5
Round 28: Nirvana defeat Pearl Jam/Soundgarden - 15 to 13/4
Round 29: Elton John defeats Billy Joel - 31 to 11
Round 30: Creedence Clearwater Revival defeat The Band/The Grateful Dead - 25 to 7/7
Round 31: Aerosmith defeat AC/DC/Van Halen - 20 to 11/7
Round 32: Whitney Houston defeats Celine Dion/Christina Aguilera/Mariah Carey - 10 to 9/9/8
Round 33: Joni Mitchell defeats Carole King/Jackson Browne/James Taylor - 12 to 11/4/4

[shackin'up]

VERY VERY difficult!

But I went for Polly because of her work with Mark Lanegan.

But a harsh decision to make!

[hayley]

I went with Patti.

They're doing a Legacy edition of Horses that is AWESOME, and I've been listening to it nonstop in the car. The first disc is the album remastered, the second is the live performance of the entire album from this summer. Like a classic Horses and Horses 2005.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by hayley

I went with Patti.

They're doing a Legacy edition of Horses that is AWESOME, and I've been listening to it nonstop in the car. The first disc is the album remastered, the second is the live performance of the entire album from this summer. Like a classic Horses and Horses 2005.

Isn't it fantatic? I've had the live disc in my car stereo ever since I got it on Tuesday.

In any event, I chose Patti. I like PJ Harvey, but it's no contest. Patti Smith is a shaman. She embodies everything a musician should be; a poet, a punk, an artist, a passionate soul. She spews out her anger and poetry without giving a **** about who she might piss off. Her amazing voice is another animal altogether.

[gldstwmn]

Patti Smith.

[face of glass]

There's no question here as to where a part of PJ's expression comes from. And Patti's first four albums all rule, so there you go.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by face of glass

There's no question here as to where a part of PJ's expression comes from. And Patti's first four albums all rule, so there you go.

Did you know Polly hadn't even heard of Patti Smith until people started to compare her to Patti? I hadn't either I must admit. (And all of Polly's albums rule - Dry, Rid Of Me, To Bring You My Love, Dance Hall At Louse Point, Is This Desire?, Stories From The City Stories From The Sea, Uh Huh Her...)

Obviously Patti paved the way for Polly, but PJ Harvey's achievements equal hers IMO. She's definitely one of the few artists of today that people will still be talking about in 20, 30 years to come.

Plus Polly is a better musician than Patti. Her guitar playing is fantastic, particularly on her debut, Dry.

Those are my reasons for voting for Polly anyway Plus her awesome duets with Nick Cave, Thom Yorke and Mark Lanegan. I love Patti but I love Polly more. She's one of Britain's greatest ever female artists.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

How vile. That album has "Rock'n'Roll Nigger" on it. Disgusting. I'm calling your mommy.

[face of glass]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Did you know Polly hadn't even heard of Patti Smith until people started to compare her to Patti?

And? Patti certainly had covered Polly's territory before. It's not like Harvey didn't add her own twist to it, but the similarities to me are obvious.

Plus Polly is a better musician than Patti.

Doesn't matter to me. Gary Moore is a better musician technically than Peter Green, but would you honestly pick Gary over Peter?

Obviously Patti paved the way for Polly, but PJ Harvey's achievements equal hers IMO. She's definitely one of the few artists of today that people will still be talking about in 20, 30 years to come.

No one in rock and roll has revolutionized anything for the past twenty years or so; it's all been a recycling of whatever has been done in the past with post-modern values. Polly has created nothing genuinely new, if anything will carry her over to the future generations it's her persona. But it might as well not happen; we can never predict these things correctly anyway. Let's talk about this in 30 years time then, if we're both allowed to live into our late middle-ages and The Ledge is still up and running.

[trackaghost]

Originally Posted by face of glass

And? Patti certainly had covered Polly's territory before. It's not like Harvey didn't add her own twist to it, but the similarities to me are obvious.

Gaius, that's fighting talk y'know! *puts fists up ready to punch*
The point I was making, which you have clearly missed, is that any similarities were unintentional on Polly Harvey's part. Anyway, I don't think they sound that alike.

Originally Posted by face of glass

Doesn't matter to me. Gary Moore is a better musician technically than Peter Green, but would you honestly pick Gary over Peter?

What's wrong with Moore? Are you saying Moore doesn't have loads of feeling in his playing? I think he does personally. I'm not a major fan of either so it's a bad example for me, but feeling plus good musicianship is a bonus for me. And anyway, I am more impressed by the fact that Polly writes the majority of her songs by herself, whereas Patti usually has to rely on a co-writer (because she's more of a poet and singer, than a musician)

Originally Posted by face of glass

No one in rock and roll has revolutionized anything for the past twenty years or so; it's all been a recycling of whatever has been done in the past with post-modern values. Polly has created nothing genuinely new, if anything will carry her over to the future generations it's her persona. But it might as well not happen; we can never predict these things correctly anyway. Let's talk about this in 30 years time then, if we're both allowed to live into our late middle-ages and The Ledge is still up and running.

I'm sorry I have to do several rolling eyes emoticons for this >
That's just because you don't like much modern music that much Gaius but personally, I see innovations and new things in music all the time. I think you could make those points about every band of the last 50 years myself. Rock n' roll comes from blues etc, etc, etc. There is nothing new in music but the way in which bands mix up old and new influences, well that's the joy of discovering new music I think.
As for Polly, I think To Bring You My Love and Dance Hall At Louse Point don't sound like anyone else. There are interesting things, sonically, going on, on those records.
(Just like old times eh Gaius?)

Three more reasons why Polly rules! Her appearance on the Sparklehorse album and Josh Homme's Desert Sessions albums and her pink catsuit she wore at Glastonbury one year. Allow me to defend the girl please. Especially since she is going to lose this round sadly and she is an awesome talent. I think the future bodes well for her myself, expecially when she won the Mercury Music Prize a few years back, proving that after more than 10 years in the business she's still getting people talking about her music.

I have noticed that when I put a new act against an older one, the older act always wins. I guess I'm still sad about Radiohead losing to those old farts Pink Floyd.

[amber]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Gaius, that's fighting talk y'know! *puts fists up ready to punch*

uh oh! everyone look out! Sharon's ready for fisticuffs!!!


Oh, and I just like PJ's music better. It sounds better. To stay on topic.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

Isnt' that an awesome album cover though?
That and Horses have to be two of the best album covers ever.

I really like most of her album covers. Horses, Easter, and Trampin' are my favorites.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

I have noticed that when I put a new act against an older one, the older act always wins.

It is a Fleetwood Mac board, after all.

[Serrart]

Patti Smith, no offense for P.J Harvey but she has a long road before getting close to her.

Romy

[face of glass]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

The point I was making, which you have clearly missed, is that any similarities were unintentional on Polly Harvey's part. Anyway, I don't think they sound that alike.

If PJ didn't inherit the similarities from Patti Smith, she inherited them from Kim Gordon and Kim Deal and so on, who inherited them from Patti Smith. Big deal, the roots are the same.

What's wrong with Moore? Are you saying Moore doesn't have loads of feeling in his playing? I think he does personally.

I like Moore, I enjoy listening to his mid-'80s metal albums. Just don't bring "Still Got The Blues" anywhere near me.
I was just trying to say: it doesn't matter if the other has more musical skills and technicality than the other, sometimes all one needs to make his/her point across is one chord. That's why people like us will always prefer Neil Young's guitar style to that of Steve Howe (not that I don't enjoy the latter too).

I'm not a major fan of either so it's a bad example for me, but feeling plus good musicianship is a bonus for me. And anyway, I am more impressed by the fact that Polly writes the majority of her songs by herself, whereas Patti usually has to rely on a co-writer (because she's more of a poet and singer, than a musician)

Christine plays piano better than Stevie but it certainly doesn't matter much to Stevie's fans, for they prefer Stevie in spite of her musical shortcomings.

For me it has never mattered who writes a particular song, for it can always fall short in execution if it is approached in the wrong manner. It is the performance that always ends up moving me the most, no matter how pretty the melodic skeleton is.

This is an argument that some Stevie fans often come up with too; that Stevie is better/more emotionally moving/more personal than some artist who doesn't write his/her own music because Stevie always writes her own stuff. Well, I've always found that claim ridiculous to begin with. For me "Anyone Who Had A Heart" as sung by Dionne Warwick or "Autumn In New York" as sung by Billie Holiday (or hell, "Baby One More Time" as sung by Britney Spears) are just as big masterpieces as something like "Beauty And The Beast". And that is because the performers are able to make the songs their own, live through every note and word, make it something universal to all of us through that delivery.

So it doesn't matter to me if one doesn't write a particular song, or if one doesn't have much musical ability. There's a world of complexity within every note that Stevie and Patti (for instance) let out of their mouths; a lot of emotional strength, fragility, and everything in between, and sometimes at the same time. They don't need to learn any other instruments, they have the most powerful instruments on the planet, expressional skills that all those stern technicians practising scales with the guitars every night merely wish that they could have.

And besides, it is ridiculous to me to start discussing who's more talented technically when we're speaking of artists that are both clearly influenced by punk. Now if we both were in the early '70s and rapid fans of prog rock, I'd understand if we were discussing about who plays faster and more error-free; Robert Fripp or John McLaughlin.

I'm sorry I have to do several rolling eyes emoticons for this >

...but personally, I see innovations and new things in music all the time. I think you could make those points about every band of the last 50 years myself. Rock n' roll comes from blues etc, etc, etc. There is nothing new in music but the way in which bands mix up old and new influences, well that's the joy of discovering new music I think.

I NEVER said that the music of the past wasn't influenced by what preceded it, of course it was. Sgt. Pepper, for all the revolutionary aspects that it contains, was still influenced by Dylan, Zappa, Pet Sounds, The Byrds, The 13th Floor Elevators, string music of the past, vaudeville and such. And yet it still is hailed as a landmark, an innovative piece of work. Why is that? Because it popularized the whole psychedelic movement; made it accessible to almost everyone and elevated rock music to the status of a high-brow art form. And therefore it doesn't necessarily matter who innovates, it matters who popularizes the particular innovation. Innovations can often be inaccessible to most people; those who manage to reach the public hearts with their creations will always be more likely remembered than those who initiated the whole thing in the first place.

Now granted, Patti never was a big seller herself but I don't think PJ is either. So if people forget who Patti Smith was, they will even more likely forget who PJ Harvey was too.

As to new music being innovative, that's only something that time will tell. I'm not going to claim that there isn't unique new music out there (although its uniqueness is at best questionable to me; it may be made by different personalities but that's it), but it's innovative value has yet to be tested. Can anyone popularize it, make it accessible to the masses so that they can appreciate it too instead of making some complex art-for-art's-sake or emotions that one can't relate to? And don't start telling me that the masses' taste sucks because then you're just simply adopting the same high-brow attitude that some people had when they dismissed '60s Motown as pure bubblegum music.

That's just because you don't like much modern music that much Gaius...

Oh, it's true. I stopped buying albums by new acts in 2001, buying only a few of them randomly every now and then. And it wasn't because I slipped into "old fart mode", it was because the music of the past had so much to offer me. I wanted to listen to prog, I wanted to listen to kraut-rock and glam-rock, post-punk and minimalistic electronic drones fascinated me as much as Frank Sinatra, The Carpenters and Nick Drake. And they still do, along with Serge Gainsbourg and György Ligeti.

So no, I don't go around trying to find new acts like you do, I don't have the money in the first place. But then, why should I? I'm listening to music that has stood the test of time; it still has the same emotional relevancy as it did decades ago. I certainly might pick an album by a new act that comes my way if I find it interesting and/or moving, but for the most part I've given up on buying things by new acts. And it isn't because I find them inferior to what happened in the past, it is because I want to let the necessary hype die down and see what the heck is going on inside the music itself. If an album that's released today is truly great, then I should be able to discover it in 30 years' time too and then enjoy it with my full heart. If I haven't completely turned into an old fart by then, and if albums still exist then, that is.

Right now my main goal is to see New Order before I die! Damn, "Shadowplay" and "Warsaw" are in the setlist and I'm stuck in Finland studying. Grmbl.

As for Polly, I think To Bring You My Love and Dance Hall At Louse Point don't sound like anyone else.

Bwah. To me that factor comes more from John Parish than Polly herself.

And once again I started writing this rant instead of actually working on my librarian studies. Will I ever win?