So Much for Sep. of Church and State

[strandinthewind]

I get that praying is a great thing for the vast majority of Americans and that many are doing it now and hopefully it is helping. But, the words "I call upon all Americans to pray to Almighty God" is almost like if you pray to some deity other than "Almighty God," you are a bad person. I mean it would have sufficed to say "I call upon all Americans to pray." But, the far right and indeed most Americans just cannot resist shoving the Judeo-Christian God down everyone's throats and making anyone who does not believe in the Judeo-Christian God feel like a second class citizen, which this Proclamation does. Again, I am not saying people should not pray - In fact, I encourage that as I think it helps and I certainly have. It is the commanding of US Citizens to pray apparently exclusively to W's "Almighty God" that I object to.

to wit:

Proclamation by the President: National Day of Prayer and Remembrance for the Victims of Hurricane Katrina

A Proclamation by the President of the United States of America

Hurricane Katrina was one of the worst natural disasters in our Nation's history and has caused unimaginable devastation and heartbreak throughout the Gulf Coast Region. A vast coastline of towns and communities has been decimated. Many lives have been lost, and hundreds of thousands of our fellow Americans are suffering great hardship. To honor the memory of those who lost their lives, to provide comfort and strength to the families of the victims, and to help ease the burden of the survivors, I call upon all Americans to pray to Almighty God and to perform acts of service.

As we observe a National Day of Prayer and Remembrance for the Victims of Hurricane Katrina, we pledge our support for those who have been injured and for the communities that are struggling to rebuild. We offer thanks to God for the goodness and generosity of so many Americans who have come together to provide relief and bring hope to fellow citizens in need. Our Nation is united in compassion for the victims and in resolve to overcome the tremendous loss that has come to America. We will strive together in this effort, and we will prevail through perseverance and prayer.

Americans are reaching out to those who suffer by opening their hearts, homes, and communities. Their actions demonstrate the greatest compassion one person may show to another: to love your neighbor as yourself. Across our Nation, so many selfless deeds reflect the promise of the Scripture: "For I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in." I encourage all Americans to respond with acts of kindness in the days ahead. By contributing time, money, or needed goods to a relief organization and by praying for the survivors and those in recovery efforts, we can make a tremendous difference in the lives of those in need.

Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath resulted in a considerable loss of life. We pray that God will bless the souls of the lost, and that He will comfort their families and friends and all lives touched by this disaster. As the American people unite to help those who are hurting, we share a determination to stand by those affected by Hurricane Katrina in the months and years ahead as they rebuild their lives and reclaim their future. We are determined that the Gulf Coast region will rise again. The tasks before us are enormous, and so is the heart of America. We will continue to comfort and care for the survivors. We will once again show the world that the worst adversities bring out the best in the American people.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim Friday, September 16, 2005, as a National Day of Prayer and Remembrance for the Victims of Hurricane Katrina. I ask that the people of the United States and places of worship mark this National Day of Prayer and Remembrance with memorial services and other appropriate observances. I also encourage all Americans to remember those who have suffered in the disaster by offering prayers and giving their hearts and homes for those who now, more than ever, need our compassion and our support.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this eighth day of September, in the year of our Lord two thousand five, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirtieth.

GEORGE W. BUSH

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...050908-12.html

Of course - he did this on 9/11 as well:

A Proclamation by the President of the United States of America

Hurricane Katrina was one of the worst natural disasters in our Nation's history and has caused unimaginable devastation and heartbreak throughout the Gulf Coast Region. A vast coastline of towns and communities has been decimated. Many lives have been lost, and hundreds of thousands of our fellow Americans are suffering great hardship. To honor the memory of those who lost their lives, to provide comfort and strength to the families of the victims, and to help ease the burden of the survivors, I call upon all Americans to pray to Almighty God and to perform acts of service.

As we observe a National Day of Prayer and Remembrance for the Victims of Hurricane Katrina, we pledge our support for those who have been injured and for the communities that are struggling to rebuild. We offer thanks to God for the goodness and generosity of so many Americans who have come together to provide relief and bring hope to fellow citizens in need. Our Nation is united in compassion for the victims and in resolve to overcome the tremendous loss that has come to America. We will strive together in this effort, and we will prevail through perseverance and prayer.

Americans are reaching out to those who suffer by opening their hearts, homes, and communities. Their actions demonstrate the greatest compassion one person may show to another: to love your neighbor as yourself. Across our Nation, so many selfless deeds reflect the promise of the Scripture: "For I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in." I encourage all Americans to respond with acts of kindness in the days ahead. By contributing time, money, or needed goods to a relief organization and by praying for the survivors and those in recovery efforts, we can make a tremendous difference in the lives of those in need.

Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath resulted in a considerable loss of life. We pray that God will bless the souls of the lost, and that He will comfort their families and friends and all lives touched by this disaster. As the American people unite to help those who are hurting, we share a determination to stand by those affected by Hurricane Katrina in the months and years ahead as they rebuild their lives and reclaim their future. We are determined that the Gulf Coast region will rise again. The tasks before us are enormous, and so is the heart of America. We will continue to comfort and care for the survivors. We will once again show the world that the worst adversities bring out the best in the American people.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim Friday, September 16, 2005, as a National Day of Prayer and Remembrance for the Victims of Hurricane Katrina. I ask that the people of the United States and places of worship mark this National Day of Prayer and Remembrance with memorial services and other appropriate observances. I also encourage all Americans to remember those who have suffered in the disaster by offering prayers and giving their hearts and homes for those who now, more than ever, need our compassion and our support.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this eighth day of September, in the year of our Lord two thousand five, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirtieth.

GEORGE W. BUSH

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010913-7.html

[markolas]

This comes as a surprise?

[tynan88]

I'm sorry but it doesn't surprise me, I think days of prayer are a great idea...just a shame they took it too far.

Also what is the go with the "in witness thereof....the two hundred and thirtieth"? What does the two hundred and thirtieth mean?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by tynan88

I'm sorry but it doesn't surprise me, I think days of prayer are a great idea...just a shame they took it too far.

Also what is the go with the "in witness thereof....the two hundred and thirtieth"? What does the two hundred and thirtieth mean?

I think it means the US has been an ind. nation for 230 years.

[Mari]

hm. God's own country, eh.

[GateandGarden]

"This may be God's country but this is my country, too."

(Sorry--I was inspired to quote Ani DiFranco as I often am for no real, justifiable reason).

[Mari]

^good quote.

OT, when you google "god's own country" (which I just did, duh) you get lots of links about Kerala, India. Uh.. yeah. OT.

[DrummerDeanna]

If you don't like it then don't pray

It's no secret our President is a Christian - what did you expect him to say??

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

If you don't like it then don't pray

It's no secret our President is a Christian - what did you expect him to say??

Well, it is not just that. It is almost like he is commanding all Americans to pray to "Almighty God" and that is a violation of the Establishment Clause. Put it this way, what if he had called upon America to pray to Shiva, would that have been okay. So, it is a little more than "If you don't like it then don't pray " IMO. But, if you are not bothered by it, so be it.

Finally, as I indicated, I expected or hope he would have said the less offensive "pray" and specified no deity as America is polytheistic, much to their chagrin.

[GypsySorcerer]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Finally, as I indicated, I expected or hope he would have said the less offensive "pray" and specified no deity as America is polytheistic, much to their chagrin.

He could have easily said to remember the victims in hurricane Katrina in our thoughts and prayers. Very simple.

[DrummerDeanna]

Well yes, he could have left it at "pray" - but his is Dubya we're talking about - I mean there is nothing surprising in his declaration...

But I mean - in general - I think there is a general consensus (probably not among radical right-wingers) that "almighty God" is all-encompassing...that it's all the same God - with different paths to get to him....

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by DrummerDeanna

Well yes, he could have left it at "pray" - but his is Dubya we're talking about - I mean there is nothing surprising in his declaration...

But I mean - in general - I think there is a general consensus (probably not among radical right-wingers) that "almighty God" is all-encompassing...that it's all the same God - with different paths to get to him....

I get the whole general consensus thing, but it is still offensive to many.

In any event, if I thought for a second that W meant it in that non-offensive manner, I'd be willing to go with that thought. But, I feel that this is another jab in a ling line of jabs by these people. Ever drive down the interstate and see the "UNDER GOD" billboards, which are clear F YOU's to people who do not believe in God and the people that put them up think those non believers have no place in this country except perhaps as a second class citizen. Similarly, the "under God" in the POA - it was put there to stop Godless communism and they originally wanted "under Jesus." I think the same thing applies with W in this instance. It is sort of like he is giving the secret high sign to the rabid Christians in this country.

But, to each their own and I hope you are right.

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

Well, it is not just that. It is almost like he is commanding all Americans to pray to "Almighty God" and that is a violation of the Establishment Clause.

Okay, so now can we impeach him?

[DrummerDeanna]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I get the whole general consensus thing, but it is still offensive to many.

In any event, if I thought for a second that W meant it in that non-offensive manner, I'd be willing to go with that thought. But, I feel that this is another jab in a ling line of jabs by these people. Ever drive down the interstate and see the "UNDER GOD" billboards, which are clear F YOU's to people who do not believe in God and the people that put them up think those non believers have no place in this country except perhaps as a second class citizen. Similarly, the "under God" in the POA - it was put there to stop Godless communism and they originally wanted "under Jesus." I think the same thing applies with W in this instance. It is sort of like he is giving the secret high sign to the rabid Christians in this country.

But, to each their own and I hope you are right.

See - and I've stated before that I simply don't understand why people are so offended by those words.....

If you don't believe in God then that's what they are - just words

I mean I see how you're saying that it's an F-You - I just don't see it that way - but that's just me....and I also understand that a lot of it is the extreme religious folk and the radicals that people have a problem with - but man - I don't get the extreme offense people take at the mere mention of God

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Shrub the Second

I call upon all Americans to pray to Almighty God and to perform acts of service.