These are real tears...

JazmenFlowers · #1 05-02-2005, 11:33 AM

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later

Moony · #2 05-03-2005, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later

ummm...see ya?

skcin · #3 05-03-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later

It's not your fault, or your problem, or whatever. I hope you decide to come back.

Johnny Stew · #4 05-03-2005, 02:52 PM

I didn't have an opportunity to see the original post before it was edited, but I will say this....
Jimmy Wheeler was a Stevie Nicks fan, and, therefore, a discussion regarding him IS on topic.

In the past, we've discussed in this Forum other stories regarding Stevie fans that we've read about on the internet or in the newspaper (lost dogs, tragic deaths, waiters who've met her, etc.), and we most certainly can discuss Jimmy Wheeler here as well.

Beyond that, we've always taken a somewhat relaxed stance regarding off-topic posts. Yes, we do suggest that they be placed in the applicable forum, but, often times, bands with no real relation to FM are discussed on the Rumours Forum, or a question regarding Stevie's solo career is asked there, and so forth. Heck, some fans have even suggested that all discussions of 'Say You Will' should have been placed on the Post-Rumours Forum, as Fleetwood Mac is no longer the Rumours-Era group without Christine.

So, if you wish to discuss Jimmy Wheeler... a fellow Stevie Nicks fan... then, please feel free to do so.

amber · #5 05-03-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later

What is she/he talking about? Is it possible that I missed something? Why would this person want to leave? what did someone say? who is Jimmy Wheeler? Why does this person want the ledge to be how it used to be?

Moony · #6 05-03-2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

What is she/he talking about? Is it possible that I missed something? Why would this person want to leave? what did someone say? who is Jimmy Wheeler? Why does this person want the ledge to be how it used to be?

that was my exact reaction!

skcin · #7 05-03-2005, 03:20 PM

I'm assuming it's because 1/2 Insane posted a nasty thread titled "These are real tears part 2." I could be wrong.

Johnny Stew · #8 05-03-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skcin

I'm assuming it's because 1/2 Insane posted a nasty thread titled "These are real tears part 2." I could be wrong.

Yes, that is, unfortunately, the case.

Just a little preemptive plea here... I'd appreciate it if no one allows this particular thread (or the other) to become a massive debate or argument.

Thank you.

Nixxxed · #9 05-03-2005, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later

Here is the text that Jazmen had posted, from Jim Wheeler's memorial website: http://jimwheeler.org Jazmen also had personal comments attached, which I am not reproducing.

The text below can be found at: http://jimwheeler.org/story.html

Quote:

My brother Jimmy comes from a family of seven children. I am the oldest. Jimmy is fourth in line.

When people hear we have seven kids in our family, they assume we are Catholic. Actually, we are Quakers.

If you know anything about Quakers, you know that they are accepting of everyone. I am very grateful that Jimmy was born into such an open-minded and loving family. I believe that is one of the factors which kept him alive to see 19.

Even as a child, we knew Jimmy was different. He was always extremely sensitive. He played extensively with dolls. He had no male friends. His mannerisms were strongly effeminate.

For the most part, he was a happy kid. It wasn't until he became a teenager that things started to change. He didn't admit to us that he was gay until he was 18.
None of us were surprised. We had kind of guessed it all along. My mom told him she loved him, but it would be a hard road ahead. My sister, Kendra, said "Big deal, it doesn't change my feelings for you." And I said something dumb like "Who wants to be like everyone else? Different is refreshing."

So Jimmy tried to pretend that he was completely comfortable with who he was. He tried to pretend that it didn't bother him when the kids called him names like 'Faggot' or 'Queer' or that it didn't totally humiliate him when they pulled him out of the gym class shower and peed on him.

He tried to pretend these things didn't affect him, but they did. In fact, he used these incidents as ammunition for an arsenal of angst-ridden poetry and paintings. He found solace in the music of Tori Amos, Courtney Love and Fleetwood Mac.

He never looked for reasons to live, only for reasons to die. He considered everything he did to be a failure. Towards the end, he talked extensively of suicide. We thought he was simply being dramatic. After all, Jimmy and I were the two biggest overreactors of the family.

Our flippancy toward his pain must have been very hurtful. But none of us could relate to his depression. We couldn't understand the self-hatred and the hopelessness that centered around his being gay. He attempted to slit his wrists at least two times.
My parents put him into therapy. His therapist said that Jimmy was a cutter, and, not to worry, cutters never take their own lives. He wasn't in therapy for very long before he killed himself. My mother and I found him in his apartment. He was about three feet from the door. He had hanged himself.

- Jennifer Wheeler

GateandGarden · #10 05-03-2005, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later

I read your original post and I really appreciated the fact that you posted it. I'm sorry that I didn't comment, but I did appreciate it. I'm sorry that you're leaving, and I wish you wouldn't leave because of one person. I hope you decide to come back sometime.

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ® · #11 05-03-2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skcin

I'm assuming it's because 1/2 Insane posted a nasty thread titled "These are real tears part 2." I could be wrong.

My tears post was in no way nasty, and Stews assuming so is an inappropriate response. Read the threads before you assume Please J/Stew. Thank You.

Johnny Stew · #12 05-03-2005, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ®

My tears post was in no way nasty, and Stews assuming so is an inappropriate response. Read the threads before you assume Please J/Stew. Thank You.

My apologies if I made an assumption. All I can go by is the reactions after the fact.

I reiterate though, that I will not tolerate a hostile environment being created on this forum.

½ ¡Ñ§ÅñË ® · #13 05-03-2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Stew

My apologies if I made an assumption. All I can go by is the reactions after the fact.

I reiterate though, that I will not tolerate a hostile environment being created on this forum.

Thanks Johnny Stew. It happens. I’m guilty too. No hard feelings on my end.

Serrart · #14 05-03-2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later

I'm sorry you're leaving. I didn't know anything about JIm Wheeler before and didn't read your initial post. Hope you would change your mind and give us the chance to read again your comments.

Romy

Sugar · #15 05-03-2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazmenFlowers

I am deleting my post for a variety of reasons and doubt that I will revisit The Ledge...making the second time I have left and vowed not to return. It amazes me that, well...nevermind, it's not worth it.

I wish The Ledge would be like it used to be...

later

Well...it is the way it used to be...it was just someone else. There was always one, wasn't there?

So don't go for this reason. There's plenty of tolerance here. Especially for those who have been wronged and try to do better.