What do you think?....

seeker007nmss · #1 04-01-2005, 11:03 PM

Do you think the future is preordained? Or is it a fluid thing that changes all the time and whose outcome cannot be determined? I think you can spot trends, but that the future changes with the wind as all the varibles swirl around and react to each other.

amber · #2 04-01-2005, 11:14 PM

I think time is fluid, I think many planes of possiblilities exist at once. However, I do think there is "probable futures". Honestly, I think that some of it is preordained, not because of some cosmic rules, but because of how people have acted, what they have done, in moments. ie, what has come before, will most likely lead to what comes. Therefore I think, in that way, the future can be predictable. However, I think the probability definitely exist for there to be "other" futures. It's a very good question. I, and some of my friends, have predicted things, or seen them. they have come to happen. But - does that mean there were not other possibilities? I don't think so. But then again, in the way that the past makes the future, it may be, to a certain extent, that the future is preordained, because of what has come before - that which was, makes that which is. I dunno, I'm still exploring it all, and on the fence about some things. I think about it a lot, but don't really have the answers, yet.

seeker007nmss · #3 04-01-2005, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

I think time is fluid, I think many planes of possiblilities exist at once. However, I do think there is "probable futures". Honestly, I think that some of it is preordained, not because of some cosmic rules, but because of how people have acted, what they have done, in moments. ie, what has come before, will most likely lead to what comes. Therefore I think, in that way, the future can be predictable. However, I think the probability definitely exist for there to be "other" futures. It's a very good question. I, and some of my friends, have predicted things, or seen them. they have come to happen. But - does that mean there were not other possibilities? I don't think so. But then again, in the way that the past makes the future, it may be, to a certain extent, that the future is preordained, because of what has come before - that which was, makes that which is. I dunno, I'm still exploring it all, and on the fence about some things. I think about it a lot, but don't really have the answers, yet.

Ooh good points Amber. I think you are right that the future is based on past events. I think it gets harder to predict the farther you go out. it is easier to predict the outcome of my doing laundry in the next 10 minutes as opposed to who (if anyone) will be president in 500 years. I think there is a percentage of an outcome happening, but nothing definate. (Kinda like Quantum Phyics in knowing the eact location of particles - you can only guess with a percentage chance of really knowing).

seeker007nmss · #4 04-01-2005, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Writing philosophies on a Fleetwood Mac message board feels odd to me but heck, I'm bored.

I think it's entirely random and that any theory can only explain an event after the fact, that whilst some patterns have proven particular theories to be more of an accurate prediction, they can never extend beyond a simple prediction. I think all theories come down to people's fear of the unknown and inability to accept that everything is entirely random. I guess that means I believe in nothing, which actually contradicts itself because then how can I believe in what I just spoke of. That's why I love philosophies, they can cancel each other out and make you feel worthly whilst really only filling in time.

This beats cleaning the bathroom, which I am puting off ATM.

I don't think everything is entirely random. There are just higher and lower percentage chances of things happening. (If I don't buy cleaner for the bathroom, the chance of me cleaning it in the future is much less).

amber · #5 04-01-2005, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Writing philosophies on a Fleetwood Mac message board feels odd to me but heck, I'm bored.

I think it's entirely random and that any theory can only explain an event after the fact, that whilst some patterns have proven particular theories to be more of an accurate prediction, they can never extend beyond a simple prediction. I think all theories come down to people's fear of the unknown and inability to accept that everything is entirely random. I guess that means I believe in nothing, which actually contradicts itself because then how can I believe in what I just spoke of. That's why I love philosophies, they can cancel each other out and make you feel worthly whilst really only filling in time.

I think I disagree, only because i hold the belief that all particles are connected, scientifically. Not that that discounts randomness, because I think there is an element which we consider random, however, I'm not sure if it actually is random. I suspect that it is not. After all, everything on this earth shares something with something else. Particles interract constantly, in ways that we are only beginning to understand...

amber · #6 04-01-2005, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeker007nmss

Ooh good points Amber. I think you are right that the future is based on past events. I think it gets harder to predict the farther you go out. it is easier to predict the outcome of my doing laundry in the next 10 minutes as opposed to who (if anyone) will be president in 500 years. I think there is a percentage of an outcome happening, but nothing definate. (Kinda like Quantum Phyics in knowing the eact location of particles - you can only guess with a percentage chance of really knowing).

right - it does get harder to predict further out, but only because most people do not have that information. If we did, I'm sure we could trace some sort of particle line...

I absolutely think that what is done now, in every second, effects every other second, for millenia. "Deep thoughts, by Amber G."

amber · #7 04-01-2005, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

That method of thought is much closer to mine than most, although we still differ. I think that no theory can determine something is more likely than something else no matter how frequent its occurance in history. I think for our purposes it's useful to accept history as a source for accounting probability but that in a much grander sense, nothing is actually more probable than the next thing.

I think I'm already contradicting what I said elsewhere because I believe I said everything is determined by the series of events before it. Yep, I completely contradicted myself but if I stayed around a bit I'm sure I could talk myself in a circle and let my own theories exempt me from my own theories. Of course then I still wouldn't have eaten nor done the dishes.

Ah HA!

(at what, i'm not sure...). oh, the past determining the future thing. yeah. that's it.
speaking of dishes....

lux, can you come do mine?

dissention · #8 04-01-2005, 11:42 PM

In the grand scheme of things, nothing matters. We're not going to leave big marks behind because of anything we've done in our lifetime, we're all going to die, and life is going to go on as if we never existed. Everything is essentially random and nothing is as connected as we'd like to believe.

dissention · #9 04-01-2005, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

Can we just get high instead?

Not if Courtney Love is any indication.

amber · #10 04-01-2005, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

I guess I mean that I think nothing is connected like you believe. That previous occurances are no assurance of future occurances, despite theories designed to accomodate for what has already happened.

Can we just get high instead?

well, I'm sure I can do both!

seriously, I think that everything's molecules are connected, and those science shows from PBS that I watch really strengthen those views...

To me it's absurd to think nothing is connected, and that the past doesn't influence the future, but hey, I've been thinking about this/studying it for a long time, perhaps I am too "in the mix"

GateandGarden · #11 04-01-2005, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

In the grand scheme of things, nothing matters. We're not going to leave big marks behind because of anything we've done in our lifetime, we're all going to die, and life is going to go on as if we never existed. Everything is essentially random and nothing is as connected as we'd like to believe.

Countless individuals have left marks and made a difference in the world for those who came after them. Scientific inventions (simple and complex) are only one example of this.

Sometimes I think you go beyond realism and into cynicism, but maybe you knew that already.

amber · #12 04-01-2005, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

In the grand scheme of things, nothing matters. We're not going to leave big marks behind because of anything we've done in our lifetime, we're all going to die, and life is going to go on as if we never existed. Everything is essentially random and nothing is as connected as we'd like to believe.

Part true, part not. everything we do, really, will affect future generations. Our pollution? they'll live with it. Our inventions? they'll live with them. Our art? Same thing. I can't believe you think what we do doesn't lead to what other people do, or percieve. Aren't we products of an enormous history that came before us? Do you think we would have any of the things we do, if someone before us hadn't led the way to inventing them? Sesly.

GateandGarden · #13 04-01-2005, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amber

To me it's absurd to think nothing is connected, and that the past doesn't influence the future...

I agree. Consider all the **** that happens over and over again in history. Supposedly, if we don't learn history then we are doomed to repeat it, but it seems that even learning it doesn't save us from that in many cases.

amber · #14 04-02-2005, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

I agree. Consider all the **** that happens over and over again in history. Supposedly, if we don't learn history then we are doomed to repeat it, but it seems that even learning it doesn't save us from that in many cases.

totally. completely. without question. etc.

How could every past moment not have led up to the moment we are having right now? To take a simple example, what if we weren't born? etc.

dissention · #15 04-02-2005, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GateandGarden

Countless individuals have left marks and made a difference in the world for those who came after them. Scientific inventions (simple and complex) are only one example of this.

Sometimes I think you go beyond realism and into cynicism, but maybe you knew that already.

Have you taken philosophy classes?

Such things are taught in them as existentialist beliefs and they aren't regarded or defined as "cynicism". I'm not speaking about physical inventions.