What if Bush had been right about Iraq all along?

Brwn_eyes0511 · #1 02-01-2005, 06:05 PM

What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along?

February 1, 2005

BY MARK BROWN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Maybe you're like me and have opposed the Iraq war since before the shooting started -- not to the point of joining any peace protests, but at least letting people know where you stood.

You didn't change your mind when our troops swept quickly into Baghdad or when you saw the rabble that celebrated the toppling of the Saddam Hussein statue, figuring that little had been accomplished and that the tough job still lay ahead.

Despite your misgivings, you didn't demand the troops be brought home immediately afterward, believing the United States must at least try to finish what it started to avoid even greater bloodshed. And while you cheered Saddam's capture, you couldn't help but thinking I-told-you-so in the months that followed as the violence continued to spread and the death toll mounted.

By now, you might have even voted against George Bush -- a second time -- to register your disapproval.

But after watching Sunday's election in Iraq and seeing the first clear sign that freedom really may mean something to the Iraqi people, you have to be asking yourself: What if it turns out Bush was right, and we were wrong?

It's hard to swallow, isn't it?

Americans cross own barrier

If you fit the previously stated profile, I know you're fighting the idea, because I am, too. And if you were with the president from the start, I've already got your blood boiling.

For those who've been in the same boat with me, we don't need to concede the point just yet. There's a long way to go. But I think we have to face the possibility.

I won't say that it had never occurred to me previously, but it's never gone through my mind as strongly as when I watched the television coverage from Iraq that showed long lines of people risking their lives by turning out to vote, honest looks of joy on so many of their faces.

Some CNN guest expert was opining Monday that the Iraqi people crossed a psychological barrier by voting and getting a taste of free choice (setting aside the argument that they only did so under orders from their religious leaders).

I think it's possible that some of the American people will have crossed a psychological barrier as well.

Deciding democracy's worth

On the other side of that barrier is a concept some of us have had a hard time swallowing:

Maybe the United States really can establish a peaceable democratic government in Iraq, and if so, that would be worth something.

Would it be worth all the money we've spent? Certainly.

Would it be worth all the lives that have been lost? That's the more difficult question, and while I reserve judgment on that score until such a day arrives, it seems probable that history would answer yes to that as well.

I don't want to get carried away in the moment.

Going to war still sent so many terrible messages to the world.

Most of the obstacles to success in Iraq are all still there, the ones that have always led me to believe that we would eventually be forced to leave the country with our tail tucked between our legs. (I've maintained from the start that if you were impressed by the demonstrations in the streets of Baghdad when we arrived, wait until you see how they celebrate our departure, no matter the circumstances.)

In and of itself, the voting did nothing to end the violence. The forces trying to regain the power they have lost -- and the outside elements supporting them -- will be no less determined to disrupt our efforts and to drive us out.

Somebody still has to find a way to bring the Sunnis into the political process before the next round of elections at year's end. The Iraqi government still must develop the capacity to protect its people.

And there seems every possibility that this could yet end in civil war the day we leave or with Iraq becoming an Islamic state every bit as hostile to our national interests as was Saddam.

Penance could be required

But on Sunday, we caught a glimpse of the flip side. We could finally see signs that a majority of the Iraqi people perceive something to be gained from this brave new world we are forcing on them.

Instead of making the elections a further expression of "Yankee Go Home," their participation gave us hope that all those soldiers haven't died in vain.

Obviously, I'm still curious to see if Bush is willing to allow the Iraqis to install a government that is free to kick us out or to oppose our other foreign policy efforts in the region.

So is the rest of the world.

For now, though, I think we have to cut the president some slack about a timetable for his exit strategy.

If it turns out Bush was right all along, this is going to require some serious penance.

Maybe I'd have to vote Republican in 2008.

irishgrl · #2 02-01-2005, 07:12 PM

The Sunni response to the results of the vote is likely to be a crucial factor in whether the election ultimately helps curb Iraq's insurgency and hastens the withdrawal of 152,000 American troops. But their first reaction was bleak: Low turnout in Sunni neighborhoods and cities suggested they may have little say in Iraq's 275-member Transitional National Assembly.

"From my point of view, this election was a failure," said Ayad al-Samaraee, a senior member of the Sunni-led Iraqi Islamic Party, "It would have been a success if most of the Iraqis came to this election, but as we see, there were divisions between those who are for and those who are against it."

and then this:

Acknowledging Monday that "Sunni participation was considerably lower than participation by the other groups," a U.S. diplomat said that "it isn't . . . a good thing when you have a significant group of people in a country that is either intimidated or involved in military operations, or the victims of military operations, or voluntarily excluding themselves from a political process."

From a Yahoo AP news article

dissention · #3 02-01-2005, 07:26 PM

Considering that over 60% of Iraq is comprised of Shiite Muslims, Mr. Brown needs a heavy dose of reality if he thinks that this farce is going to play well.

sodascouts · #4 02-01-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishgrl

The Sunni response to the results of the vote is likely to be a crucial factor in whether the election ultimately helps curb Iraq's insurgency and hastens the withdrawal of 152,000 American troops. But their first reaction was bleak: Low turnout in Sunni neighborhoods and cities suggested they may have little say in Iraq's 275-member Transitional National Assembly.

"From my point of view, this election was a failure," said Ayad al-Samaraee, a senior member of the Sunni-led Iraqi Islamic Party, "It would have been a success if most of the Iraqis came to this election, but as we see, there were divisions between those who are for and those who are against it."

and then this:

Acknowledging Monday that "Sunni participation was considerably lower than participation by the other groups," a U.S. diplomat said that "it isn't . . . a good thing when you have a significant group of people in a country that is either intimidated or involved in military operations, or the victims of military operations, or voluntarily excluding themselves from a political process."

From a Yahoo AP news article

Of course this guy views the election as a failure - the Sunnis lost power!

Finally, the majority can rule in Iraq.

How about these quotes, culled from an article on the CNN.com site: http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/01/30/iraq.main/

"This is the greatest day in the history of this country," Iraqi national security adviser Mowaffak al-Rubaie told CNN.

---

Initial reports indicated voter turnout appeared to be higher than expected, even in Sunni-majority areas where insurgent attacks have occurred on a near daily basis.

---

Adnan Pachachi, a Sunni member of the former Iraqi Governing Council who had advocated a delay in the vote, said turnout in cities such as Mosul and Falluja "has been far greater than we had expected. "

---

Interim President Ghazi al-Yawar was among the first to vote Sunday in Baghdad.

"Deep in my heart, I feel that Iraqis deserve free elections," al-Yawar said after casting his ballot. "All Iraqis are winners today. There are no losers."

Merf · #5 02-01-2005, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

What if Bush has been right about Iraq all along?

But he hasn't been right about Iraq all along. He was wrong from the get-go. Does anyone remember the whole Weapons of Mass Destruction thing? The families of the nearly 1500 American soldiers who've died so far in Iraq based on that bold-faced lie won't forget that easily, and neither will I. I don't support nation building. If Bill Clinton had tried this mess with a Republican congress? They would have had his head on a silver platter. It's amazing to me that so many Americans seem to have forgotten the LIE that got us into this mess in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned? That lie to us? trumps any "good" that elections will do over there. Call me a pessimist, but this election is not a quick fix.

EDIT: How ironic that they're replaying part of Bush's 2003 SOTU speech when he talks about Saddam Hussein obtaining Uranium from Africa. LIAR.

SuzeQuze · #6 02-01-2005, 10:46 PM

The estimated number of innocent Iraqis killed in this war is 100,000. Is that worth it? There were promising reports of good election turnout in Vietnam which nevertheless remained a quagmire. Time will tell whether democracy in Iraq will be a success but that is independent of the success/failure of the war. To me war is a failure period. I just don't believe in it. Maybe as a last resort I could condone it but we weren't even close. We began this war to fight terrorism, not spread democracy to a fascist country, at least that is what we were told.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #7 02-01-2005, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzeQuze

The estimated number of innocent Iraqis killed in this war is 100,000. Is that worth it? There were promising reports of good election turnout in Vietnam which nevertheless remained a quagmire. Time will tell whether democracy in Iraq will be a success but that is independent of the success/failure of the war. To me war is a failure period. I just don't believe in it. Maybe as a last resort I could condone it but we weren't even close. We began this war to fight terrorism, not spread democracy to a fascist country, at least that is what we were told.

Can't kill two birds with one stone?

Can't one still fight against terrorism and yet help bring democracy and freedom...don't they go hand in hand?

Brwn_eyes0511 · #8 02-01-2005, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

My dear boy, you don't for a minute believe that Bush's agenda involves bringing democracy to Iraqi people do you? I see it now, he just cares too much about the poor Iraqi's and simply could not sit by and watch them suffer. Three cheers for the humanitarian!

And sarcasim get us where exactly? You are very much intitled to what YOU believe are Bush's feelings on the "poor" in Iraq and exactly who he cares about. But hopefully slowly bringing democracy to the Iraqis, will speak volumes about Bush's intentions.

dissention · #9 02-01-2005, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

But hopefully slowly bringing democracy to the Iraqis, will speak volumes about Bush's intentions.

I think his intentions were made perfectly clear when he invaded Iraq for no reason, killed innocent people and children, sexually abused prisoners, and named American military camps and bases Exxon and Shell.

ontheEdgeof17 · #10 02-01-2005, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

But hopefully slowly bringing democracy to the Iraqis, will speak volumes about Bush's intentions.

To Americianize everyone?

Brwn_eyes0511 · #11 02-01-2005, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ontheEdgeof17

To Americianize everyone?

If Americanize means freedom and democracy...I guess so.

Brwn_eyes0511 · #12 02-01-2005, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

I think his intentions were made perfectly clear when he invaded Iraq for no reason, killed innocent people and children, sexually abused prisoners, and named American military camps and bases Exxon and Shell.

ahh yes...I do remember him sexually abusing those prisoners...remember how the photos were all over the news? WTF?

dissention · #13 02-01-2005, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brwn_eyes0511

ahh yes...I do remember him sexually abusing those prisoners...remember how the photos were all over the news? WTF?

You must not know much about the whole scandal, I take it.

amber · #14 02-01-2005, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux

My dear boy, you don't for a minute believe that Bush's agenda involves bringing democracy to Iraqi people do you? I see it now, he just cares too much about the poor Iraqi's and simply could not sit by and watch them suffer. Three cheers for the humanitarian!

funny, and perfectly insightful and on point, as usual.

god, that guys motives make me sick to my soul...