Yasser Arafat...dead

[ShangriLaTroubl]

Yassar Arafat has been pronounced dead..

Chris

[tommer]

condolences.

[ontheEdgeof17]

His status has been going back and forth for days. I guess this is the official end. RIP.

[greatdarkwing]

Good riddance to bad rubbish

~Alex

[greatdarkwing]

I take you are sad Tommer Love the birthday cake....

~Alex

[tuigirl]

Forgive my ignorance..but was he a goody or a baddy...I can't figure it out, (politics isn't really very strong with me!)

[tynan88]

Arafat was seen as a bit of baddy because of the way he knocked back some peace deal in 1999 I think, so he is sometimes seen as having held back peace yet at the same time earlier on was seen as a great leader because he unified Palestine to an extent.

Tynan

[tynan88]

He is kind of seen as the underdog if anything as opposed to classifying as good or bad because of how he has been confined for so long.

[DeeGeMe]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

That being said, I'm more upset that the ****er has been dying for a week now and waited until I was ready to watch the replay of Countdown with Keith Olbermann on MSNBC at midnight to air to die!!!! Instead of Keith and my nice liberal news feed, I had to listen to Joe Scarborough, Pat Buchanan and their ilk discussing Arafat's dying. How inconsiderate of him to wait to die until the moment I was getting ready to watch the replay of the news!!!!!!! Why, the unthoughtfulness of him! Oh well, I guess that's why he was a terrorist!!!!

[amber]

Originally Posted by DeeGeMe

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

That being said, I'm more upset that the ****er has been dying for a week now and waited until I was ready to watch the replay of Countdown with Keith Olbermann on MSNBC at midnight to air to die!!!! Instead of Keith and my nice liberal news feed, I had to listen to Joe Scarborough, Pat Buchanan and their ilk discussing Arafat's dying. How inconsiderate of him to wait to die until the moment I was getting ready to watch the replay of the news!!!!!!! Why, the unthoughtfulness of him! Oh well, I guess that's why he was a terrorist!!!!

!!!
Slap that bitch up!!!!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Lux

Well going back on his record, it's hard for him to ever be the 'good guy'. But in terms of more recent attempts for peace and struggles for unification, he would appear to be making more accomodations and therefore more effort than his 'oponent'. So whether he's a 'good guy' or a 'bad guy' is completely subjective to how far back your memory stretches and also your order of priorities.

Well, said. Plus, he was the leader of what probably is best described as a band of somewhat ill organized people, some with very different agendas than what Arafat touted to the public as his own. AND - he was in power and control (to what degree will always be in question ) for a very long time. When you are in power for that long - there are bound to be good and bad things. In the end, I think he was resposible for the death of many innocent people via terroristic attacks like the bombings of buses and cafes. So, draw your own conclusions - whatever they may be; mine are bad. And - depending on his replacement - it could be the proverbial "out of the frying pan and into the fire."

[tommer]

in many ways his role in history was a highly important and positive one; he took a scattered bunch of beaten refugees, defined them, and turned them into (almost a) proud nation. i find it very respectable, i really do. how many leaders pulled off such a thing?
but then again, he wasn't enough of a leader to complete his mission, and give his people their own independent state, unwilling (or incapable) of making the needed and painful concessions that it takes. the peak was of course in 2000, when he already had eastern Jerusalem right in the palm of his hand, and dropped it.
even more so, in his deep stupidity, through his ongoing use of terror, he managed to screw two israeli prime ministers (Barak & Peres) who were desperate to resolve the conflict in the most peaceful and fair manner. he taught the israeli voter that reasoning with the palestinians is pointless and worthless, and shifted public opinion in israel far to the right, so overall everyone were ****ed by him, so unlike the mideast experts before me, i think the blissful death of this hardliner may open great new oppertunities for the entire region.
last but not least, let us all remember that this man pioneered the concept of using worldwide terror on civilians as a political tool, and held on to that doctrine till his last day.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by tommer

in many ways his role in history was a highly important and positive one; he took a scattered bunch of beaten refugees, defined them, and turned them into (almost a) proud nation. i find it very respectable, i really do. how many leaders pulled off such a thing?
but then again, he wasn't enough of a leader to complete his mission, and give his people their own independent state, unwilling (or incapable) of making the needed and painful concessions that it takes. the peak was of course in 2000, when he already had eastern Jerusalem right in the palm of his hand, and dropped it.
even more so, in his deep stupidity, through his ongoing use of terror, he managed to screw two israeli prime ministers (Barak & Peres) who were desperate to resolve the conflict in the most peaceful and fair manner. he taught the israeli voter that reasoning with the palestinians is pointless and worthless, and shifted public opinion in israel far to the right, so overall everyone were ****ed by him, so unlike the mideast experts before me, i think the blissful death of this hardliner may open great new oppertunities for the entire region.
last but not least, let us all remember that this man pioneered the concept of using worldwide terror on civilians as a political tool, and held on to that doctrine till his last day.

well said

and now wifee-poo wants that four billion dollars!!!! But, think she'll hire a Jewish Lawyer (levity)

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by DeeGeMe

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

That being said, I'm more upset that the ****er has been dying for a week now and waited until I was ready to watch the replay of Countdown with Keith Olbermann on MSNBC at midnight to air to die!!!! Instead of Keith and my nice liberal news feed, I had to listen to Joe Scarborough, Pat Buchanan and their ilk discussing Arafat's dying. How inconsiderate of him to wait to die until the moment I was getting ready to watch the replay of the news!!!!!!! Why, the unthoughtfulness of him! Oh well, I guess that's why he was a terrorist!!!!

I changed the channel to A & E.

[strandinthewind]

The man can set it out - from the NYTimes:

November 12, 2004
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
Casting a Vote for Peace
By JIMMY CARTER

Atlanta

For more than 40 years, Yasir Arafat was the undisputed leader of the fragmented and widely dispersed Palestinian community and the symbol of its cause. His pre-eminent role was not perpetuated by his boldness or clarity of purpose, but was protected from challenge by his status as the only common denominator around which the disparate factions could find a rallying point.

It was very frustrating to deal with Mr. Arafat in seeking a clear position of the Palestinians, because he was very careful to avoid making a final decision that, when revealed, might arouse intense opposition or rebellion from one of the many competing groups that accepted him as its spokesman. At the same time, his sensitive political antennas endowed him with the ability to enunciate a consensus with reasonable accuracy.

When given a chance by Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin of Israel, Mr. Arafat responded well by concluding the Oslo Agreement of 1993, which spelled out a mutually satisfactory relationship on geographical boundaries between Israel and the Palestinians. The resulting absence of serious violence by either side was broken when a Jewish nationalist assassinated Mr. Rabin. Mr. Arafat later rejected a proposal devised by President Bill Clinton and Prime Minister Ehud Barak of Israel, but its basic terms have led to positive initiatives between private groups of Israelis and Palestinians, in particular one known as the Geneva Accords. This proposal addresses the major issues that must be resolved through further official negotiations before a permanent peace can be realized.

In effect, peace efforts of a long line of previous administrations have been abandoned by President Bush and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. For the last three years of his life, Mr. Arafat was incapacitated and held as a prisoner, humiliated by his physical incarceration and excluded by the other two leaders from any recognition as the legitimate head of the Palestinian community. Recognizing Mr. Arafat's failure to control violence among his people or to initiate helpful peace proposals, I use the word "legitimate" based on his victory in January 1996 by a strong majority of votes in an election monitored by the Carter Center and approved by the occupying Israelis.

Lately, with Mr. Arafat politically and physically debilitated, the resulting leadership vacuum has been filled by factions, some of which have resorted to unconscionable acts of terrorism. The Israelis have used this political interregnum to impose their will unilaterally throughout Palestinian territories, with undeviating support from Washington. When the widely respected leader Mahmoud Abbas was chosen by the Palestinian governing authority to act as its alternative peace negotiator, his effectiveness was undermined by both Mr. Arafat (who saw his authority threatened) and by Mr. Sharon (who preferred to make decisions without considering a strong Palestinian voice).

If a respected successor to Mr. Arafat can be chosen by the Palestinians (not by the Israelis or Americans), then there is a new opportunity to initiate peace negotiations. While Mr. Abbas was elected by the organization yesterday as the chairman, it is unlikely that he or any other leader can achieve political legitimacy unless chosen through a democratic process.

Moreover, serious obstacles exist now that were not present in 1996. At that time, Palestinians were permitted to move freely, to campaign and to vote throughout Gaza and the West Bank. This included East Jerusalem, despite a last-minute altercation about whether votes were being "cast in" or "mailed from" voting places in post offices. Now, many more illegal Israeli settlements have been built throughout the West Bank, a road system connects them like a spider web, and a wall is being constructed that encroaches in substantial ways into Palestinian territory from the internationally accepted boundary.

Another deeply disturbing change is the decision by Hamas and other militant factions to resort to suicide bombings and other acts of terrorism, whereas the hope for peace and justice discouraged such violence eight years ago. After that election, Hamas representatives rejected my efforts to have them accept Mr. Arafat as their political leader, and they continue to act independently.

Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain has stated recently that peace in the Middle East is the most important international issue. It is to be hoped that, in Washington and Jerusalem, there is also recognition that a bold and balanced move to achieve this goal will help to attenuate the Middle East tension and hatred that exacerbates the global threat of terrorism.


Jimmy Carter, the 39th president of the United States, is chairman of the Carter Center and winner of the 2002 Nobel Peace Prize.