What's the deal with the Master Reels and trading?

[AliP]

Forgive me if I'm out of the loop or this has been discussed. I was just curious why all of a sudden traders are no longer trading the master reels?? I've been trading for a long time, but I'm usually don't have the time to stay informed on such things. **I heard that whoever sells the masters threatened to not sell them anymore if they were to be traded.** (I don't know if this is true or not)

Now, I don't know if this is the case, but I feel extremely irritated. If I paid good money for these things, then I better be able to do whatever the hell I want with them and the seller can suck it. If they don't want other people sharing them - then don't sell them.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but I really see no point in even having them if I can't share them with other fans. They do me no good sitting around in a box after I've listened to them a few times.

If this topic is taboo and if there are reasons why it shouldn't be discussed in an open forum - then please PM me and tell me the reasons behind this.

Thanks, Ali

[Hippocampus]

It's no dark secret. The seller is paying out of his own pocket to gradually transfer the masters he owns to CD. The least he deserves is to cover his own expenses and most traders are respectful of that by not freely trading the masters they acquire.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by Hippocampus

It's no dark secret. The seller is paying out of his own pocket to gradually transfer the masters he owns to CD. The least he deserves is to cover his own expenses and most traders are respectful of that by not freely trading the masters they acquire.

That would make sense if this guys actual sales numbers and costs added up, which they don't.

It's just a moneymaking operation that is in the guise of "helping out the fans." I can understand Bill wanting to recoup his money (and he isn't the one who is actually converting all of these things), but don't tell anyone he isn't making a profit off of these discs. That's just false.

As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to trade the reel that they bought and paid for, it's their right. After all, they OWN it.

I've been a very outspoken person when it comes to these reels and I supported the selling of them at one time, but I don't anymore. There's a lot fo stuff going down that most people don't know about and I would advise people not to purchase these reels any longer. If that means Bill sits on the 100 or so reels that he has left, so be it. At least you'll be safe to know that you aren't contributing to the very sale of bootlegs that the fan community so often rails against. This isn't popular opinion, but...

AND- the people who have these reels for trade on their websites have been harrassed about them in a VERY unsavory manner. Put them up on a website for trade and don't be surprised if you get a few NASTY emails from a LOT of people.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by AliP

Now, I don't know if this is the case, but I feel extremely irritated. If I paid good money for these things, then I better be able to do whatever the hell I want with them and the seller can suck it. If they don't want other people sharing them - then don't sell them.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but I really see no point in even having them if I can't share them with other fans. They do me no good sitting around in a box after I've listened to them a few times.

EXACTLY.

[Hippocampus]

Originally Posted by dissention

That would make sense if this guys actual sales numbers and costs added up, which they don't.

It's just a moneymaking operation that is in the guise of "helping out the fans." I can understand Bill wanting to recoup his money (and he isn't the one who is actually converting all of these things), but don't tell anyone he isn't making a profit off of these discs. That's just false..

Who knows? I certainly don't. I'm not defending anyone but do you actually have specific info other than hearsay to make these claims or is this just wild speculation on your part? Okay you could also tell me that I was speculating and while I would be inclined to believe profits are being made in this operation, I just don't buy the idea that these could be distributed freely. Unless of course you would ask the owner of the reels to be a saint and waste his time and money and never ask for anything in return.

Originally Posted by dissention

As far as I'm concerned, if someone wants to trade the reel that they bought and paid for, it's their right. After all, they OWN it.

I totally agree but I think this works both ways. They also have a right not to trade them for whatever reasons they might have.

Originally Posted by dissention

I've been a very outspoken person when it comes to these reels and I supported the selling of them at one time, but I don't anymore. There's a lot fo stuff going down that most people don't know about and I would advise people not to purchase these reels any longer. If that means Bill sits on the 100 or so reels that he has left, so be it. At least you'll be safe to know that you aren't contributing to the very sale of bootlegs that the fan community so often rails against. This isn't popular opinion, but...

Not trying to start something here but it would be nice to have the real story for a change instead of cryptic statements the like of "a lot of stuff is going down that most people don't know about". What exactly is going on?

[AliP]

Originally Posted by Hippocampus

It's no dark secret. The seller is paying out of his own pocket to gradually transfer the masters he owns to CD. The least he deserves is to cover his own expenses and most traders are respectful of that by not freely trading the masters they acquire.

Still doesn't make sense to me. If this "seller" transfers them using his own money and then sells them for some outrageous price - he's made up his money right there.

Unless he keeps greedily selling the same ones he's already sold and people keep getting sucked into buying them can I see why he wouldn't want people trading them. I can see the alterior motives there. It's just too bad that certain "fans" think this is ok.

[David]

Originally Posted by Hippocampus

Who knows? I certainly don't. I'm not defending anyone but do you actually have specific info other than hearsay to make these claims or is this just wild speculation on your part?

Circumstantial evidence that Bill enjoys the profit & plans to continue reaping it includes the fact that he's selling DVDs of the current concert tour -- items that have nothing to do with the reels. When he took possession of them, I don't think Bill had any idea that the reels were worth much -- or any -- money. He soon learned otherwise, & at this point he's just another bootlegger. That's intended to be a simple factual description rather than specifically a censure.

As for the fans who buy the material (specifically the reels, not the concert DVDs), some of them feel they can trade what they buy & some of them want to keep Bill in action by not trading (what I've heard about Bill is that he's prone to paranoia, hysteria & precipitous mood swings).

[dissention]

Originally Posted by David

Circumstantial evidence that Bill enjoys the profit & plans to continue reaping it includes the fact that he's selling DVDs of the current concert tour -- items that have nothing to do with the reels. When he took possession of them, I don't think Bill had any idea that the reels were worth much -- or any -- money. He soon learned otherwise, & at this point he's just another bootlegger. That's intended to be a simple factual description rather than specifically a censure.

As for the fans who buy the material (specifically the reels, not the concert DVDs), some of them feel they can trade what they buy & some of them want to keep Bill in action by not trading (what I've heard about Bill is that he's prone to paranoia, hysteria & precipitous mood swings).

About six months ago, the number of CDs he sold was around 2-3,000. Multiply that by $20 per CD (and he ONLY puts what is on a reel on a CD, even if there is only one song, it's still $20). Now, the number of CDs sold has swelled around 4-5,000. The money he's supposedly spent on these things is only around $30,000 (which is a big lie, it's only around $7,000), and people claim he just wants to make the money back. Now, I'd like to know why he's making in excess of $100,000 off of these reels alone, then factor in his bootlegs of Mac shows that people are paying $25 for (the very thing that these hypocrites rail against when it's done on eBay). It stinks and the people who are buying this bull**** are some naive folk.

Also, factor in that these reels were given to him and that he was not the one to purchase them and you have a world-class scam artist.

As for Bill, from what I know, he is quite the odd man. Very wishy-washy, egotistical, and paranoid. He's even got the people he deals with believing that the record companies know that these reels are out there and that should should keep their possession of them on the down-low because they're ready to crack down on them.

[AliP]

Originally Posted by dissention

About six months ago, the number of CDs he sold was around 2-3,000. Multiply that by $20 per CD (and he ONLY puts what is on a reel on a CD, even if there is only one song, it's still $20). Now, the number of CDs sold has swelled around 4-5,000. The money he's supposedly spent on these things is only around $30,000 (which is a big lie, it's only around $7,000), and people claim he just wants to make the money back. Now, I'd like to know why he's making in excess of $100,000 off of these reels alone, then factor in his bootlegs of Mac shows that people are paying $25 for (the very thing that these hypocrites rail against when it's done on eBay). It stinks and the people who are buying this bull**** are some naive folk.

Well, I think Bill better be careful who he pisses off. I wonder if he's ever heard of a little government agency called the IRS??

[dissention]

Originally Posted by AliP

Well, I think Bill better be careful who he pisses off. I wonder if he's ever heard of a little government agency called the IRS??

He's never heard of a little thing called the RIAA either.

What he's doing is illegal. He's taking copyrighted material and selling it. It doesn't matter what pretense he's doing it under, it's illegal.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by trackaghost

How much is this Bill, charging for these master reels?
Seems wrong to me...

$20 per CD and $25 per concert DVD bootleg.

[gypsydreamer1]

Originally Posted by AliP

most traders are respectful of that by not freely trading the masters they acquire

LMFAO NOOO alot of traders were told to not trade them by people trolling trade list If a master reel was spotted well then it was "OFF WITH THERE HEAD!" No but really LOL ,I agree we should not have to have people telling us not to trade what we pay lots of money for ,but the other part of me wants to say dont piss off the other people so Bill will not get upset and they get the rest of the reels So what ever you read of this ..........

[gypsydreamer1]

Originally Posted by David

(what I've heard about Bill is that he's prone to paranoia, hysteria & precipitous mood swings).

LAOM!!!! Oh that could be so true!!!

[Hippocampus]

Originally Posted by dissention

About six months ago, the number of CDs he sold was around 2-3,000. Multiply that by $20 per CD (and he ONLY puts what is on a reel on a CD, even if there is only one song, it's still $20). Now, the number of CDs sold has swelled around 4-5,000. The money he's supposedly spent on these things is only around $30,000 (which is a big lie, it's only around $7,000), and people claim he just wants to make the money back.

I won't even ask you where you're getting these numbers from. However, speaking as someone who has bought some reels from Bill in the past (there I've said it ), I never paid $20 per disc (about $10). Maybe he charges $20 if you buy just one, I have no clue, I can only speak for myself but based on my personal experience, your numbers seem to be more high fiction than fact.

Originally Posted by dissention

Now, I'd like to know why he's making in excess of $100,000 off of these reels alone, then factor in his bootlegs of Mac shows that people are paying $25 for (the very thing that these hypocrites rail against when it's done on eBay). It stinks and the people who are buying this bull**** are some naive folk.

Perhaps you should give more credit to other people's motivations. Speaking for myself once again, I knew he was a bootlegger (selling unreleased material), I knew what I was doing and my motivation for buying certainly wasn't based on the assumption that he was just covering his own costs and not making a profit out of it. That's what I had been told yes but that wasn't a factor in my decision. I was interested in getting some of his discs, I found the price acceptable and I paid for them. I'm fully aware of what I've done as a responsible adult and I don't feel ripped off in any way. I don't see what's naive about it and no... I'm not a desperate fan . You could argue that it was stupid if you want but I certainly haven't been duped.

Originally Posted by dissention

Also, factor in that these reels were given to him and that he was not the one to purchase them and you have a world-class scam artist.

This is a first and I'll freely admit that I have no clue either way.

[MacMan]

Does anyone know when Bill surfaced with these Masters? I have some Masters, but they were all acquired through trading... and I've been trading for a few years - and it baffles me that I never saw him post anything anywhere advertising these for sale... Yet all of a sudden these things started popping up and alot of people seemed to find him and the Masters... Just curious if anyone knows any of those details...

And part of the story I heard was that he in fact was given them... but with the condition that he pay back the person that fronted the purchase. The initial buyer took out a loan from a family member - passed away - left them to Bill and Bill took out a loan and paid off the source of the cash. That could be total crap... It's just what I had heard.