Howard Dean: A Vote For Nader Is A Vote For Bush

gldstwmn · #1 04-12-2004, 05:43 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/12/op...12DEAN.html?th

For Ralph Nader, but Not for President
By HOWARD DEAN

Published: April 12, 2004

BURLINGTON, Vt.

Everyone expects this year's presidential election to be decided by razor-thin margins in a few battleground states. Everyone also expects the candidacy of Ralph Nader to make the race between John Kerry and George Bush even closer. As I know from experience, however, voters have a way of proving everyone wrong.

Democrats are motivated to defeat the president this year. They've seen firsthand what three years of Bush administration policies have done to America. And they want to stop his policies from inflicting any more damage on working-class Americans, the environment, our international standing or a woman's right to choose.

Many Democrats also admire Ralph Nader's achievements, as I do. But if they truly want George Bush out of the White House, they won't vote for Ralph Nader in November.

Ralph Nader has built a remarkable legacy as a consumer advocate. Because of his tireless work, we have federal consumer protection laws and a federal department dedicated to the protection of our environment, and millions of defective motor vehicles are off the roads. And I campaigned against the very same corporate special interests that he has been criticizing longer than almost anyone else.

But I don't believe that the best way to do justice to Ralph Nader's legacy is to vote for him for president. Re-electing George Bush would undo everything Ralph Nader has worked for through his entire career and, in fact, could lead to the dismantling of many of his accomplishments.

Voting for Ralph Nader, or for any third-party candidate for president, means a vote for a candidate who has no realistic shot of winning the White House. To underscore the danger of voting for any third-party candidate in elections this close, a statistic from the 2000 campaign may prove useful: a total of eight third-party candidates won more votes than the difference between Al Gore and George Bush nationwide.

When I ended my bid for the presidency, I asked my supporters to continue our quest for change in America. Our group, Democracy for America, is committed to exposing the ways in which the Bush administration's policies are designed to prop up the privileged and please right-wing ideologues. Our agenda is rooted in hope and real American values — opportunity, integrity, honesty. This is the way to defeat George Bush.

Ralph Nader once said that your best teacher is your last mistake. Too many of us learned the consequences of not standing together four years ago. This November, we can elect a president who fights for average Americans. But we can achieve this goal only if we join together — and don't repeat our last mistake.

Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, ended his candidacy for the Democratic nomination for president in February.

strandinthewind · #2 04-12-2004, 10:11 PM

ITA - I cannot believe anyone in their right mind would vote for Nader in this election when getting rid of W is so important to probably anyone who would vote for Nader

P.S. Carne - you are not included in my phrase "right mind"

strandinthewind · #3 04-12-2004, 10:13 PM

BTW - Dean is forming a PAC - I got a donation req. letter today

dissention · #4 04-12-2004, 10:26 PM

Anyone hear Randi Rhodes' fight with Nader on the air? Wow. It blew my mind. Want the link so you can download it? It's 12 minutes, but only 2MB, so it's a very quick download.

He ended up hanging up on her.

strandinthewind · #5 04-12-2004, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Anyone hear Randi Rhodes' fight with Nader on the air? Wow. It blew my mind. Want the link so you can download it? It's 12 minutes, but only 2MB, so it's a very quick download.

He ended up hanging up on her.

I AM MAD AT YOU ---- DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME YYYOOOUUUUU

Classic

dissention · #6 04-12-2004, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I AM MAD AT YOU ---- DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME YYYOOOUUUUU

Classic

"WE CAN'T AFFORD YOU? DO YOU UNDERSTAND: WE CAN'T AFFORD YOU RIGHT NOW!!!!!! GET OVER IT! WHAT WOULD YOU DO AS PRESIDENT?! NOTHING!!!!!!!!"

dissention · #7 04-12-2004, 11:04 PM

Want the link to the MP3 of "She Still Looks Reptilian To Me"?

golddustwoman77 · #8 04-13-2004, 09:03 AM

I'm going to have to agree with the article. Never in history has a third party won the election. I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, but Nadar isn't the guy who is going to do it. He has already ran before, and he didn't make the showing that makes me think that he can pull it off. If people want Bush out of the White House, everyone who isn't voting for Bush, better be voting for Kerry. That is the only hope there is. I hope people can see that. Too bad Nadar didn't just keep his butt out of this race.

I'm afraid it will be the downfall of this campaign year for the Democrats.

Kerry needs that 5% to 8% of the vote!

gldstwmn · #9 04-13-2004, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissention

Anyone hear Randi Rhodes' fight with Nader on the air? Wow. It blew my mind. Want the link so you can download it? It's 12 minutes, but only 2MB, so it's a very quick download.

He ended up hanging up on her.

I missed that one. Wasn't it her first show with Air America?

dissention · #10 04-13-2004, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gldstwmn

I missed that one. Wasn't it her first show with Air America?

Yup.

He was her first guest and when he got ont he phone, they started talkign about his reasons for running. He got very defensive, so she just told him flatly "We can't afford you right now." He got pissed and they screamed back and forth for ten minutes; eventually he hung up on her.

Gimme a second and I'll get you the link.

dissention · #11 04-13-2004, 11:25 AM

Here's the direct link to the file:

http://www.yeatspub.com/rrs/intervie...0331_nader.mp3

You can get her show archives from:

http://www.randirhodesarchives.com/ (GREAT site!)

Enjoy!

chiliD · #12 04-13-2004, 11:29 AM

If Nader would've run in, oh, let's say 1972 or 1976, he might've had a chance. But, now? He'll only get the Evil Empire back in office for another four years. I wonder where on this planet would be a safe haven if Dubya gets a second term. "The End Of Days" seems to be upon us.

dissention · #13 04-13-2004, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiliD

If Nader would've run in, oh, let's say 1972 or 1976, he might've had a chance. But, now? He'll only get the Evil Empire back in office for another four years. I wonder where on this planet would be a safe haven if Dubya gets a second term. "The End Of Days" seems to be upon us.

Exactly.

He's past his expiration date, people.

Here's a summary of his Rhodes appearance:

Things turned ugly on the new liberal talk radio network, "Air America," Wednesday night, with guest Ralph Nader blasting the Democratic Party's counterweight to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly as "Hot Air America."

The perennial candidate said the fact that Democrats couldn't hang onto what he described as their presidential victory was the party's own fault.
And for good measure, Nader blasted ex-President Clinton as a "draft-dodger."
It was all downhill from there, as Nader and Rhodes screamed at one another for the next 10 minutes.

Some selected highlights, as transcribed by the Web site "The Daily Kos":

On Clinton

RHODES: You know the Democrats' policy, you know when the Republicans talk about regime change was the Clinton administration's policy, but it was regime change from within. It was never military action on our part on Iraq. That was not the policy ...
NADER: ... You know, Clinton was a draft-dodger so he wasn't willing to take on the Pentagon. And he wasn't willing to take on the Congress on many huge military expenditures and that starved many of the necessities back home among the American people. ...

On Nader's Presidential Run

RHODES: How many ways to Sunday do I have to tell you? We can't afford you.
NADER: I'm sorry, can you afford freedom? Can you afford choice? Can you afford civil liberties?
RHODES: Gimmie a Democrat President!

On "Hot Air America"

NADER: ... can you – is this the way you want to start Air America? You want it to be Hot Air America?
RHODES: Oh, no, you see ...
NADER: ... Log on to the web site votenader.org ...
RHODES: Ralph, let me tell you something. If you did get to be president, tell me who you would caucus with. Tell me who you could get to vote for your ... views and visions, and your, your bills! Who is an independent other than Bernie Sanders and Jim Jeffords? Who are you gonna count on? You ... let's say you win, OK?
NADER: You can't win without a huge mobilization of voters ...
RHODES: ... let's say ya do ...
NADER: ... that would replace many members of Congress.
RHODES: ... let's say it's seventy years old, from your house in Connecticut, your little house ...
NADER: ... now wait a minute. Now wait wait wait. You're ...
RHODES: ... you are, you are ready to do this.
NADER: ... listen, listen. Now you're getting nasty you...
RHODES: I'm not!
NADER: You are ruining the first day ...
RHODES: I'm not ruining anything.
NADER: ... the first day of Air America.
RHODES: This is Air America.
NADER: ... you're not letting your, you're not letting your guest be, have a chance to speak. You're ...
RHODES: I asked you a question.
NADER: ... you're not letting your guest have a chance to speak.

More bickering

NADER: ... you've got a very bad interviewing technique ...
RHODES: ... uh uh uh. I am not ...
NADER: ... and you're not going to get an audience by overtalking ...
RHODES: ... interviewing you ...
NADER: Do not overtalk!
RHODES: I am not ... interviewing you!
NADER: Do not overtalk!
RHODES: I'm mad at you! Don't you understand the difference?
NADER: Fine, just close up and start screaming to your audience.
RHODES: [laughs] Look. Don't tell me how to do radio; I've done it for twenty years. You screwed up the last election, and now you want to screw up this one, and I'm pissed!
NADER: (pause; speechless) You know, you ought to be ashamed of yourself because you ...
RHODES: But I'm not! You know you should ...
NADER: ... you agree with me ...
RHODES: ... be ashamed of yourself!
NADER: ...you agree with me on so many issues. You really ought to be ashamed of yourself

dissention · #14 04-13-2004, 11:34 AM

I'm still trying to find the file of Oliver North's appearance on her show where he stormed out of the studio in the middle othe show.

Merf · #15 04-13-2004, 11:49 AM

This country will never embrace a third party for President. NEVER. I'm sorry, but if you vote for Nader, you are not only wasting your vote, you are putting a vote in Bush's column. That is my opinion and I know it will piss off a lot of the independents here, but it's still THE TRUTH. If Nader wants to make a difference in this country, he will bow out of the election. Plain and simple. We cannot afford to give ANY votes to Bush, because this election is going to be as close or closer than the one in 2000. And we know we don't need another president elected by ELECTORAL VOTES ONLY.

Sorry to rant, but Nader is just really pissing me off right now.

I still can't believe that Nader is in a position to hand the election to a man whose lies have cost thousands their lives. On Easter Sunday, Bush laughed off the past week's violence and kidnappings as "a bad week." My respect for Bush is now at an all time low. We must get him out of that position of power by any means necessary. And NADER DOES NOTHING TO HELP THIS CAUSE!