The Ledge Usage Guide

[David]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Accusitive pronouns always follow prepositions, simple as that.

Well, jyqm, it's looking pretty goofy & zany with all this repetition.

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Rule #2 on this site notes that some publications do allow use of a colon after a verb.)

Then I'll invoke "Rule #2".

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

Accusitive pronouns always follow prepositions, simple as that.

Look at me. I know all about him. I can see right through him. He's got "sleazebag" written all over him. I used to look up to him, but I am so over him now. Anyway, this isn't about him. This is between me and her. I haven't heard from her in a week. What's gotten into her? Whatever it is, it's beyond me. But it's up to her to get the money back from him.

what is an "accusative pronoun?" and I forget what a preposition is.


and now for my entry into this little soire:

effect, affect.

good LAWD, its amazing how often people goof those up.....

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

what is an "accusative pronoun?" and I forget what a preposition is.

The accusative pronouns: me, you, him, her, it, us, you, them. Accusative pronouns always stand in for the object of a sentence or prepositional phrase.

Their counterparts would be the nominative pronouns: I, you, he, she, it, we, you, they. Those always stand in for the subject of a sentence.

Prepositions are all those relational words I used in my previous post. They're always followed by a noun or accusative pronoun.

Look at me. I know all about him. I can see right through him. He's got "sleazebag" written all over him. I used to look up to him, but I am so over him now. Anyway, this isn't about him. This is between me and her. I haven't heard from her in a week. What's gotten into her? Whatever it is, it's beyond me. But it's up to her to get the money back from him.

[David]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Then I'll invoke "Rule #2".

steve, you work for government, right?

You'd probably want to consult the U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual, which sets editorial policy for government publications:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/stylemanual/index.html

Now in my line of work at the moment, I use the Microsoft Manual of Style for Technical Publications, which requires me to introduce all lists with colons--even when I use the list points to complete the sentence. In my former life as a newspaper copy editor, I used the Associated Press Stylebook, which had its own rules on the matter.

House style is house style, wherever you work. Editorial policy is usually set by the house styleguide in order to create a consistent look & feel throughout everything that organization publishes. That's what I was saying earlier: For usages & styles in dispute, settle on one & use it consistently. That's one of the most important principles in editing.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

The accusative pronouns: me, you, him, her, it, us, you, them. Accusative pronouns always stand in for the object of a sentence or prepositional phrase.

Their counterparts would be the nominative pronouns: I, you, he, she, it, we, you, they. Those always stand in for the subject of a sentence.

Prepositions are all those relational words I used in my previous post. They're always followed by a noun or accusative pronoun.

Look at me. I know all about him. I can see right through him. He's got "sleazebag" written all over him. I used to look up to him, but I am so over him now. Anyway, this isn't about him. This is between me and her. I haven't heard from her in a week. What's gotten into her? Whatever it is, it's beyond me. But it's up to her to get the money back from him.

I think I need to print this stuff for future reference

[David]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

and now for my entry into this little soire:

effect, affect.

good LAWD, its amazing how often people goof those up.....

Let's help Johnny Stew effect a change for the better here at the Ledge. All the fighting is bringing down the group's collective affect.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

The accusative pronouns: me, you, him, her, it, us, you, them. Accusative pronouns always stand in for the object of a sentence or prepositional phrase.

Their counterparts would be the nominative pronouns: I, you, he, she, it, we, you, they. Those always stand in for the subject of a sentence.

Prepositions are all those relational words I used in my previous post. They're always followed by a noun or accusative pronoun.

Look at me. I know all about him. I can see right through him. He's got "sleazebag" written all over him. I used to look up to him, but I am so over him now. Anyway, this isn't about him. This is between me and her. I haven't heard from her in a week. What's gotten into her? Whatever it is, it's beyond me. But it's up to her to get the money back from him.

please see the highlighted part above. why wouldnt you say between "she and I" instead of "me and her?"

I dont know why but I seem to have this aversion to anything that uses ME instead of I. Wasnt there a rule that it was more proper to use "I" instead of "me?"......



OK: I got out my trusty little Writer's Reference and I want to clarify some terms
instead of "accusative" my reference refers to the following as SUBJECTIVE CASE:
I/we/you/he/she/it/they.
OBJECTIVE CASE (not Nominative):
me/us/you/him/her/it/them

Im still not clear why "between he and I" is incorrect??? "between me and him" sounds uneducated for some reason?

I guess what Im really trying to find out is when you use subjective and when you use objective? its not really clear....

what about something like: "this is between ME and YOUR mother!" there's one objective case and one subjective case!


HOLD THE PHONE!!!!!!!! "you" and "it" are in both lists!!!! what now??????

[macfanken]

David, what about ampersands? They're very stylish but are there instances when they should not be used?

[The Tower]

I've really gotten tired of the whole "your" when it's supposed to be "you're" routine that seems to be going on lately.

Paula already brought up my most hated, which is the whole "loose" in place of "lose" thing. And the worst version of that one is when someone writes something like this: "The Tower is a looser." OYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

And please people, the word is spelled "weird", not "wierd". I realize that's not a usage thing but it really bugs the **** outta me.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by The Tower

I've really gotten tired of the whole "your" when it's supposed to be "you're" routine that seems to be going on lately.

Paula already brought up my most hated, which is the whole "loose" in place of "lose" thing. And the worst version of that one is when someone writes something like this: "The Tower is a looser." OYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

And please people, the word is spelled "weird", not "wierd". I realize that's not a usage thing but it really bugs the **** outta me.

so LOSE the WEIRD grammar already!

ps: have you noticed that some words, the longer you look at them, the stranger they look? (Im sure I broke about 5 rules in that sentence. I dont care!!!)

[David]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I dont know why but I seem to have this aversion to anything that uses ME instead of I. Wasnt there a rule that it was more proper to use "I" instead of "me?"......

It's proper to use "I" when you need the subjective pronoun.

OK: I got out my trusty little Writer's Reference and I want to clarify some terms instead of "accusative" my reference refers to the following as SUBJECTIVE CASE:
I/we/you/he/she/it/they.
OBJECTIVE CASE (not Nominative):
me/us/you/him/her/it/them

That's what I told you earlier. Nominative = subjective. Accusative = objective.

Im still not clear why "between he and I" is incorrect???

Because "between" is a preposition.

"between me and him" sounds uneducated for some reason?

It's perfectly correct. In fact, it's the only correct choice.

I guess what Im really trying to find out is when you use subjective and when you use objective? its not really clear....

These are noun & pronoun cases. It would take pages to cover all possible uses of the various cases. But in general use the subjective as the subject of the clause (in other words, the agent of the verb) & use the objective as the object of the verb as well as the object of any preposition.

what about something like: "this is between ME and YOUR mother!" there's one objective case and one subjective case!

"me" is objective case & "your" is what's called genitive, or possessive, case. However, the phrase "your mother" in this example is, grammatically, in the objective case, too. (Yes, that's right--phrases can have case, too.)

HOLD THE PHONE!!!!!!!! "you" and "it" are in both lists!!!! what now??????

You're off the hook with "you" & "it"! Isn't that wonderful?

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by David

It's proper to use "I" when you need the subjective pronoun.
That's what I told you earlier. Nominative = subjective. Accusative = objective.
Because "between" is a preposition.
It's perfectly correct. In fact, it's the only correct choice.
These are noun & pronoun cases. It would take pages to cover all possible uses of the various cases. But in general use the subjective as the subject of the clause (in other words, the agent of the verb) & use the objective as the object of the verb as well as the object of any preposition.
"me" is objective case & "your" is what's called genitive, or possessive, case. However, the phrase "your mother" in this example is, grammatically, in the objective case, too. (Yes, that's right--phrases can have case, too.)
You're off the hook with "you" & "it"! Isn't that wonderful?

so, from now on, Im constructing sentences that look like this:

this is between you and me!!!!!

(not sure how to use "it" yet, but when Im sober I'll give it a shot!)

btw: correct yourself. NOMITIVE = OBJECTIVE, ACCUSATIVE = SUBJECTIVE


and its all GREEK to me. (and every single one of those words looks misspelled to me too.......go figure)

[David]

Originally Posted by macfanken

David, what about ampersands? They're very stylish but are there instances when they should not be used?

I like ampersands! I use them all the time when I post, which you probably noticed a long time ago.

But I'm being a smartass. To use or not to use the ampersand seems to me a decision best left to each individual concern--in other words, a house style decision rather than a usage rule that applies to everyone everywhere.

For specific house style rules, check the Chicago Manual of Style or the MLA Handbook. It's probably best to avoid ampersands in formal contexts: term papers, articles submitted for publication, final drafts of official documents, &c. So, if you're a disgruntled English lord under King John & you're drafting the Magna Carta, use "and" instead of the ampersand.

[David]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

so, from now on, Im constructing sentences that look like this:

this is between you and me!!!!!

You ROCK, babe!!!