Aren't We Being A Little Hard On The Band?

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, the point I think you are missing is FM has released the cat. stuff and did so fairly recently

This is true, and I don't anybody is saying that the band has done absolutely nothing, merely that the three recent reissues should only be the first phase of a more comprehensive project and not the only re-releases we ever get.

So, though I would like the 80's stuff remastered, I think the band and their management are being financially clever in their decisions and the sales of the GH stuff supports me on that.

But you just said in another post that Tango was the band's best-selling album after Rumours. By your logic, they should have re-issued that instead of Tusk.

And again, you can't look at the sales of these packages over the first two years of their existence and claim that they're not worth it or aren't making enough money. These things are going to be selling modest numbers for years.

That aside, the music business is more than just a business - it's also art, and often art that makes a very strong connection with the people who buy it. And while decisions are more often than not going to come down to questions of profit, there's also the issue of giving die-hard fans what they want, showing that on some level you care about and respect the people that have supported your career the most, by releasing things that they're going to want and be happy with. There are scores of artists who do this, to varying degrees, including many who have bothered to upgrade their entire catalogues. For Fleetwood Mac, the FM/Rumours/Tusk reissues were a good start. But to stop there would be a missed opportunity, a great disservice to the rest of the band's catalogue, and an expression of indifference or worse toward their most dedicated fans.

[strandinthewind]

^^^

I agree that FM and La Nicks (LB and CM will never do it nor will Welch, Green, etc. ) should release little tidbits on their websites. I think many would go to nicksfix.com if there were new concert or other footage (like the making if WH) put up on a weekly basis. But, they will never do this and I cannot understand why because it would be so relatively inexpensive to do.

[David]

Originally Posted by Richard B

But it was okay to release the TITN video?

I betcha no actual member of the band is even aware of that DVD release. I betcha if you asked any one of them about that, you'd get a "huh?" I betcha Lindsey doesn't even know there was a VHS tape of a 1987 show. If you asked him about THAT, he'd answer "huh? whuh?"

The band doesn't know what kind of fleetwood mac **** hits the shelves ... unless it's something A) big (like Say You Will) or B ) that required the band's involvement (like the Rumours 5.1). Stevie only talked about the 5.1 thing on Rosie & everywhere else because ken caillat made her go into an actual room & LISTEN to it. Otherwise, she would never have known about it, let alone talked about it.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

But you just said in another post that Tango was the band's best-selling album after Rumours. By your logic, they should have re-issued that instead of Tusk.

yabbut jyqm it doesn't necessarily matter what it sold back then that would make the decision. It's what it might sell today that would do so. Debbbbbbie boone's you light up my life sold a ****load in 1977, but would anyone buy a remastered copy of it today?

And again, you can't look at the sales of these packages over the first two years of their existence and claim that they're not worth it or aren't making enough money. These things are going to be selling modest numbers for years.

so how much DID those reissues sell? they were reasonably priced.

That aside, the music business is more than just a business - it's also art, and often art that makes a very strong connection with the people who buy it. And while decisions are more often than not going to come down to questions of profit, there's also the issue of giving die-hard fans what they want, showing that on some level you care about and respect the people that have supported your career the most, by releasing things that they're going to want and be happy with. There are scores of artists who do this, to varying degrees, including many who have bothered to upgrade their entire catalogues. For Fleetwood Mac, the FM/Rumours/Tusk reissues were a good start. But to stop there would be a missed opportunity, a great disservice to the rest of the band's catalogue, and an expression of indifference or worse toward their most dedicated fans.

but from fleetwood mac's perspective, they don't have "diehard fans"; they have an "audience." mick doesn't distinguish between diehard fans & every last joe & jane who go see an fm concert just to party for the evening. fans are so solipsistic. they truly believe they are recognized & loved by their idols.

[David]

Originally Posted by Richard B

I'm sure it's mutual.

Don't worry everyone, I'm sure the band has called their fans idiots from time to time.

you & chili bringing a breath of sanity to this particular topic of "if you love them why do you rag on them?" lunacy (which must have psychological underpinnings).

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by David

Debbbbbbie boone's you light up my life sold a ****load in 1977, but would anyone buy a remastered copy of it today?

Add outtakes, live cuts & bonus tracks, you betcha!!

[David]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

As an aside, I also think it could be because the TITN DVD is more time relevant and is very slick in its production, which the Mirage Tour is not and can be painful to watch at times due to the drugs, the off key singing, etc. - though I love it mind you.

why "painful"? Believe me, strandista, the **** the kids are listening to today makes the fleetwood macsters of long ago look like Barney.

Drugs? offkey singing? you should go to this summer's ozzfest to see bands in action like snot, slipknot, system of a down, etc.

come on, pal, put it into some perspective

[David]

Originally Posted by chiliD

Add outtakes, live cuts & bonus tracks, you betcha!!

folks, steve & I used to hang out in Guitar Center & steve would go into the guitar room & he's sing You Light Up My Life in full-throated voice mezzoforte, & I'd try to sing along & we bothed just loved that song!!

[chiliD]

Originally Posted by David

folks, steve & I used to hang out in Guitar Center & steve would go into the guitar room & he's sing You Light Up My Life in full-throated voice mezzoforte, & I'd try to sing along & we bothed just loved that song!!

The best parts were the Peter Green/Eric Clapton-esque guitar fills between the lines of the verses. Even squeezed an "I'm So Afraid"-like solo in there.

Good times.

[Jyqm]

Originally Posted by David

so how much DID those reissues sell? they were reasonably priced.

I don't know what the tallies are so far, but the question is how much will they continue to sell. These are long-term investments.

but from fleetwood mac's perspective, they don't have "diehard fans"; they have an "audience." mick doesn't distinguish between diehard fans & every last joe & jane who go see an fm concert just to party for the evening. fans are so solipsistic. they truly believe they are recognized & loved by their idols.

All too true from Fleetwood Mac's perspective, but there are plenty of artists out there who do care about their long-time and die-hard fans and go out of their way to do good things for them. And not even because they're all just super-nice, altruistic people. It's also good business sense. Keep your repeat customers happy and excited to buy more products.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by David

why "painful"? Believe me, strandista, the **** the kids are listening to today makes the fleetwood macsters of long ago look like Barney.

Drugs? offkey singing? you should go to this summer's ozzfest to see bands in action like snot, slipknot, system of a down, etc.

come on, pal, put it into some perspective

LOL - I knew I was gonna get shiitte for that comment

I agree with you that the Mirage concert is wildly better than the TITN one. I am just noting that in today's market, slick production is where it is and the Mirage take is far from that. That is why or part of why I think TITN got released instead of the Mirage one, if there was indeed a choice between the two.

To be clear, I am talking about the largest market, which is the average buyer - not people who appreciate music, etc.

As for the off key/drugs comment. They were off key a bunch both musically and vocally and LB is smoking what appears to be a joint on stage, CM has wine, and La Nicks' eyes are only somewhat open at times and she is on another planet during SOTM (and gloriously so I might add) - so, they are all out there during the set. Is that tamer than today or even then with the likes of Van Halen - who can say. I just note FM was.

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by David

folks, steve & I used to hang out in Guitar Center & steve would go into the guitar room & he's sing You Light Up My Life in full-throated voice mezzoforte, & I'd try to sing along & we bothed just loved that song!!

I still love that song - and I say so proudly

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by Jyqm

. . . All too true from Fleetwood Mac's perspective, but there are plenty of artists out there who do care about their long-time and die-hard fans and go out of their way to do good things for them. And not even because they're all just super-nice, altruistic people. It's also good business sense. Keep your repeat customers happy and excited to buy more products.

But, that goes back to my point of I think their management and to a significant degree them (certainly La Nicks as she openly discussed all cat. releases and says what stuff - like the Rumors tribute CD - she had no part in) think they are meeting that need with the FMFM, Rumors,and Tusk remastered releases with extra stuff and the remastered VBOFM. I think they think that is enough to meet whatever demand is out there. Also, the release of these around the time of SYW was intentional in that both helped market each other.

[David]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

I agree with you that the Mirage concert is wildly better than the TITN one. I am just noting that in today's market, slick production is where it is and the Mirage take is far from that.

yes the mireage concert is definitely low-tech: shot on video rather than film, low-tech camera work, patchwork edits----it's like a student film. But that's what makes it so successful at giving the viewer the impression of the shows themselves.

As for the off key/drugs comment. They were off key a bunch both musically and vocally

I don't think they were off key musically. What do you mean? they were playing off key?

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by David

. . . I don't think they were off key musically. What do you mean? they were playing off key?

It sounds like LB is off key at times. I cannot think of an example now though.

In the end, I like the Mirage video way more than the TITN one. Though, I must say watching the Mirage one is a little sad because, to me, they had only some of the charisma that they had in the Tusk one.