Sn Double Standard , Dont Get It

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by David A

LB has nothing to prove, nothing, his solo work material wise blows any SN SOLO project out of the water, and SN success was mainly cause how she looked.

Oh yes, I'm sure she sold so many copies of TISL because the masses went wild for that ass. The mystery behind the "thong" in the cover is now revealed.

On a serious note, perhaps her looks helped her in the past, but to say they were MAINLY the reason for her success greatly under-values her talent, and her knack for working with people who know how to make her music commercial. Stevie NEVER sold her music on her body the way many young artists do today; which is what I think people are getting at. How many popstars of today get their tits out or pose in bikinis and whatnot? Stevie never resorted to that.

You say Lindsey's solo albums blow Stevie's out of the water. I disagree completely. But music is unique for every person. One man's treasure is another man's garbage, etc. So, I'm not even going to have a fan debate there.

Stevie selling 20K would be seen as a flop, for sure. Stevie selling 300k, whilst not going Gold, would be seen as a success. Yes, it's not to her 1980s levels, but no one is expecting that, not with the state the record industry is in now. And, people forget, it took several years for Rock A Little and The Other Side Of The Mirror to become Platinum sellers, so I don't think her fans expect her to sell massively. A top ten / five placement is expected, one would think.

As for Fleetwood Mac outselling Stevie, I'd contest that claim too. Bella Donna outsold Tusk and Mirage, as someone else said, and Street Angel and TISL sold pretty much the same as Time and SYW. Stevie's success IS Fleetwood Mac's success now, in my eyes. If Stevie isn't selling, Fleetwood Mac won't sell.

[Tango]

Originally Posted by David A

Hello All

I am going to try and be as gentle as I can on this. Bottom line, I am a LB & FM fan first and for most. Sadly, I have come the conclusion that LB will never sell records SOLO wise, regardless. LB just doesn’t have a solo following, which is fine by me.

Having said that, my question is, what kind of sales are we expecting for IYD ?

From what Lindsey has said, Stevie would be a part of "the big machine" that he likes to join when he's not doing his solo work so that he can continue to do his solo work. He has been under appreciated by the masses that DO respond to him when he is with Fleetwood Mac. Lindsey's brilliance is somehow not recognized when he is not with the machine (that is an understatement). A lot of that is because he missed so many opportunities. Years and years went by without capitolizing on his solo work, particularly not putting out anything after The Dance. I can count at least 20 people that used to post on the Lindsey board that aren't even here any more following The Dance. (several have even died, believing he would one day bring his solo album to fruition.) It has nothing to do with lack of talent. It has everything to do with lack of timing. I think he thought the clock would wait for him.

Lindsey has clearly done so much for Stevie's music in Fleetwood Mac over the years (despite, as he has said, not even wanting to help her in band ventures) and has gotten to the point where he even contributed several times to her solo ventures in recent years (Twisted, I Miss You, Soldier Angel, etc). I have been to Lindsey's solo shows and have been blown away every time. I've also had amazing times over the years seeing Stevie, but even Stevie fans have been disappointed that she does not change her setlist. Despite that, her solo outtings have done better than Lindsey's but they have been dropping. Stevie has always kept in contact with her fans in some way. She tours relentlessly. Lindsey did not. He didn't even tour behind some of his solo albums. Missed opportunities. He was financially well off and probably didn't feel it was necessary and continued to work on Fleetwood Mac albums-until he was literally sick of them all.

I don't know what kind of sales you are expecting for IYD. I really don't know what it will sell, but I don't think she can outsell Fleetwood Mac, and I don't think anyone associated with Fleetwood Mac can outsell Rumours. Even if Christine McVie came back, they will never be able to pull that off again. Their fans have pretty much moved on. They all wasted a lot of time.

[Musicman408]

Originally Posted by David A

thats total crap, SN has sold records, and if, I say IF she doesnt sell them now, nyou are all ok with that, meaning, no big deal, amazing. LB has nothing to prove, nothing, his solo work material wise blows any SN SOLO project out of the water, and SN success was mainly cause how she looked, amazing ppl dont see that, they are bashing the young ppl artist, bubble gum for the exact, well, almost exact things she did in her hey day

amazing, how this is a double standard, I just dont get it, I really dont

Yea, lets see what BIG venues SN sells out, ppl are really reaching for straws , Rod Stewart was the head line, not her, and you ppl think she has a chance of selling out venues, amazing

if SN would have sold 300,000 back in 1985 or 1990, you all would have big time said,

"oh bomb"

"what a failure"

but, now thats ok?

i dont get it

Promise you this as example, Shania Twain and or Celine Dion aint never gonna NOT Sell, and sometimes SN fans act like she can hold a candle to those ladies

weird

I'm not really understanding AT ALL why you're here trying to create this kind of scene.

Let's get a few things straight. NOBODY sells the kinds of albums they used to back in the day. If Fleetwood Mac were in their heyday now, they would not have sold 30 million copies of Rumours because the demographic and percentage of the population buying albums is SMALLER!!

You are entitled to your opinion, and that's fine. I happen to be big fans of both Stevie and Lindsey's solo work, but wouldn't come into either forum and try to stir up a mess like this- ESPECIALLY with this kind of joyous occasion of the release of a new album.

There really is no double standard of which you speak- I don't understand where you're coming from. We are the Stevie die hard fans, and most of us really aren't overly concerned about how well this record does in terms of charting. WE F-ING LOVE IT! We are not the mainstream, we are at the extreme end of the fan spectrum. So I don't understand this double standard, "coming up with excuses" for if the album sells well or not. Regardless if it sold 100,000 copies or 10,000,000 copies, our opinion of the thing is going to be THE SAME!!

Yes, back in the day if Stevie albums were selling 300,000 copies that would be CONSIDERABLY less. HOWEVER, 300,000 copies now is NOT 300,000 from back then..... it's not., so to compare her potential sales of this album (300,000) for example, and we say we're pleased with that or whatever- that is NOT A DOUBLE STANDARD! 300,000 is a more considerable share of the market compared to 1980. Yes, 300,000 back then would have kind of been "blah" but that's not what she sold, so I don't know why it's being brought up.

I understand you like Lindsey, and perhaps you WISH his music was more commercially appreciated than Stevie's. I don't really know what your motives are here in this discussion, but it comes off as very contrite, and bitter.

[Heartboy]

Originally Posted by GoldDustBoy

I am positive she will debut in the top 10, and I am positive that this album will go gold. Platinum would be great, but I am not so sure about that. I am also sure she will be nominated for a Grammy.

Best thing posted in this thread!

David, there's no need to be jealous!

[jellyman10]

I've been in the pub.

Lindsey has not sold as many records because he's less talented. There, I've said it.

[markolas]

Oh, I get it. You're just here to bash Stevie.

[KarmaContestant]

As a fan, I don't place too much importance on album sales. I like what I like and it doesn't matter to me if other people like it as much as I do. I do like a lot of singers and bands who don't really sell much anyway, and I certainly don't hear them on the radio much. Of course I'd love to see Stevie have a platinum album and get lots of airplay, but it's not expected and I don't really see any point to making excuses in the future for why something didn't happen that wasn't expected to happen in the first place. I doubt that many of Stevie's fans, in 2011, entertain any illusions about her place in the modern music scene. Doesn't mean it won't be talked about, and I don't think that's a double-standard.

What is important to me is that Stevie is on-record saying she liked making this record so much that she wants to do more. That outweighs sales more than anything, for me.

Ultimately, I think the OP is calling us all 'fanbois'. I love Stevie's music - it's been the soundtrack to my life. Not the soundtrack that plays for others, but my own personal soundtrack that I keep close. To say her music means a lot to me and that I want her to be happy and successful so she keeps making more would be an understatement. So I guess I'm a fanboi.

And come on, comparing Stevie to Celine and Shania? Who does that? That's like...craft beer and vodka. One is handcrafted, subtley nuanced with colors and flavors, produced with care and relished by a smaller group of people, while the other is mass produced, mass marketed and in general, overdone. Of course, I still like them both.

[tabruns]

I don't get the point of this either. Lindsey has always sold less but that doesn't mean anything. Both he and Stevie have put out great albums.

We have a Top 10 in Billboard now where some of the albums are selling 20,000 that week. I don't think that would have been the case back in the day. Albums are just selling less and less. Lady Gaga's "The Fame" has gone triple platinum (last time it was certified) and that's now considered amazing.

I think In Your Dreams will debut in the Top 10. I have no idea how much it will sell. Frankly anything north of 200,000 would be amazing in this day and age. If she actually scored a Gold album I think that would be a greater achievement at this time than Bella Donna going double platinum it's first year.

[macfanken]

i don't understand what the point is that you're trying to make.

Originally Posted by David A

thats total crap, SN has sold records, and if, I say IF she doesnt sell them now, nyou are all ok with that, meaning, no big deal, amazing. LB has nothing to prove, nothing, his solo work material wise blows any SN SOLO project out of the water, and SN success was mainly cause how she looked, amazing ppl dont see that, they are bashing the young ppl artist, bubble gum for the exact, well, almost exact things she did in her hey day

uh oh.

[StevieRox81]

Originally Posted by David A

Hello All

I am going to try and be as gentle as I can on this. Bottom line, I am a LB & FM fan first and for most. Sadly, I have come the conclusion that LB will never sell records SOLO wise, regardless. LB just doesn’t have a solo following, which is fine by me.

Having said that, my question is, what kind of sales are we expecting for IYD ? as far as what needs to be reached to NOT make this a bomb and or disappointment. SN as a solo act , in my view is creditable, I mean, I don’t think she’s ever done anything past her 2nd solo record, BUT having said that, I can’t deny her actual numbers. So, she SHOULD be able to sell, however, I do realize that today’s music is drastically different, and I think with FM Say You Will album results, SALES wise made me even more realize this. But, I often think that SN fans are known for coming up with a bunch of excuses. And, since LB never sells, no one can say im making this a challenge, it’s not, LB can release the cure for cancer, and it won’t sell, which is fine. SN has a track record, all be it early on, of selling platinum, multi platinum albums, and I think that a bunch of you are already lining up excuses for when it does NOT sell, you can’t have your cake and eat it to, and I don’t know how ppl can say that LB doesn’t sell, and then when and if IYD doesn’t sell, you guys are going to use those same excuses. SN has sold, so why isn’t she expected to now?

Honestly, she should and I realistically expect her to debut IYD in the top 10 . Honestly, if she doesn’t debut in top 10, that’s not good, and I don’t get how anyone can say that a outside the top 10 is ok

Sales wise, I would say platinum and up is a freaking home run, and id be the first to congratulate her, even though I highly doubt it, Honestly, she HAS to at least go old. No way she sells 300,000 and ppl can say that’s a success.

It’s a double standard, for years, ppl would use the argument that SN solo career was better than LBs and many ppl would say look at the sales, which is fine, but NOW, people are preparing arguments for when IYD doesn’t sell, that it’s ok

U can’t have it both ways. So, what is the expectation here? And don’t use the critical acclaim argument, because no offense, SN SOLO career aint exactly known for critical acclaim, she has hung her hat on her sales, so honestly if she debuts at like #13 and ends up selling 300,000 copies, that is a bomb and or a failure.

I hope ppl understand what im saying. It just sounds like many excuses are being prepared. It’s funny because it sounds like many SN fans may end up using the LB excuse, “well, its critically acclaimed, and that’s all that matters”, which for LB is fine and true, because he hung his hat on hat. Bottom line, SN hung her hat on her solo sales, and she’s going to live or die (sales wise, no harm intended) by those sales, and I just don’t see how IYD can sell ENOUGH , as far as SN sales to be a success

This is so ridiculous I was going to ignore this thread and not respond, but I have one thing to say...

You have NO idea what Stevie's fans are all about!

[jellyman10]

It doesn't mean anything. Beiber sells more than either of them. You'll be happier if you just like what you like and not bother whether you're in the majority on anything.

[Tango]

Originally Posted by jellyman10

It doesn't mean anything. Beiber sells more than either of them. You'll be happier if you just like what you like and not bother whether you're in the majority on anything.

You are absolutely right! It's not a competition.

[GoldDustBoy]

Sure I fell for the looks of a 50+ woman as a gay guy with a major degree in classical music who grew up with Led Zep, Pink Floyd, The Beatles etc.

[Keith]

however many copies of Stevie's new album does end up selling..

she'll sell more in her first week than Lindsey will sell in his total for each of his albums.. and I do love me some Lindsey. .. but come on dude..

anyways.. I'm off to Rolling Stone.. had no idea the album was available via stream.. trying to wait.. but can't.. of course, I just got back from the pub, a bit drunk... the caps lost game 1... and I really could use some new Stevie Nicks.. here I go.. In Your Dreams...

[mikephxaz]

you're original discussion points lost all there credibility when you try compare nicks to twain or celine...stevie is a singer/songwriter celine is a vocalists and twain is none of the above... twain has struggled to even maintain any career...she, like dion rely on songwriters to piece together albums...celine's vocal abilities are legendary but you want to compare stevie's long history in the industry to those two? really? Wow....I'm starting to think that the others on this thread are right ....you intentions are just to pick a losing fight because Lindsey's solo career can't compare to steve's...just turn off your computer, pour yourself a glass of wine and put on Lindsey's masterpiece from Family Vacation....eeuuuuhhhhh