Stevie's Collaberation with Dave ?

[WildHearted]

Originally Posted by seekerj

I would be actually looking forward to the album if this were the case. If I wanted to listen to Dave Stewart, I would buy his records. Just like if I wanted to hear Bob Seger songs done live, I would buy a ticket to Bob Seger's show, not Stevie's.

Well, I'm still looking forward to this album.

However, I agree with you pretty much. IMO, Stevie's songs are best when they are left really true to their original form, with only the necessary production and nothing extra or superfluous.... Basically I want to hear a song that is Stevie's. I don't want to hear a song that started out as Stevie's but now sounds like it could be anyone's song...

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by WildHearted

Well, I'm still looking forward to this album.

However, I agree with you pretty much. IMO, Stevie's songs are best when they are left really true to their original form, with only the necessary production and nothing extra or superfluous.... Basically I want to hear a song that is Stevie's. I don't want to hear a song that started out as Stevie's but now sounds like it could be anyone's song...

I don't agree with that at all. I heard the demos of Gypsy and Gold Dust Woman. Those songs were very big collaborations. I don't care if she got sole songwriting credit or not. However, I don't mind it. She can write the words all she wants, as long as I get what I'm looking for and she has been the catalyst for some major songs. Shania Twain's career was based upon colloborations and so was Bjorks. Stevie is her own thing. Her failures are fascinating. However, when everything works there is no one better. I think she is a really good song crafter, very different than anyone else. But not being able to play instruements has hurt her. I also think she got spoiled. She gave Lindsey material and watched him turn her lesser works into big, significant songs. She tried hard in the early days to really craft songs, but after awhile, what is the point when you have someone like him around. She became too dependent on producers. It was their job to make the songs great, not hers.

[seekerj]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

I don't agree with that at all. I heard the demos of Gypsy and Gold Dust Woman. Those songs were very big collaborations. I don't care if she got sole songwriting credit or not. However, I don't mind it. She can write the words all she wants, as long as I get what I'm looking for and she has been the catalyst for some major songs. Shania Twain's career was based upon colloborations and so was Bjorks. Stevie is her own thing. Her failures are fascinating. However, when everything works there is no one better. I think she is a really good song crafter, very different than anyone else. But not being able to play instruements has hurt her. I also think she got spoiled. She gave Lindsey material and watched him turn her lesser works into big, significant songs. She tried hard in the early days to really craft songs, but after awhile, what is the point when you have someone like him around. She became too dependent on producers. It was their job to make the songs great, not hers.

I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about production, but the actual music itself.

It's not the same thing for those songs mentioned. Stevie came up with the chords, or the musical foundation, for those songs. Not so for the new songs; she started singing her words along to the music Dave was playing. That's different. That's the same as writing along to someone's track. The only thing different is that you're looking at a person who is playing an instrument instead of at a tape machine.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by seekerj

I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about production, but the actual music itself.

It's not the same thing for those songs mentioned. Stevie came up with the chords, or the musical foundation, for those songs. Not so for the new songs; she started singing her words along to the music Dave was playing. That's different. That's the same as writing along to someone's track. The only thing different is that you're looking at a person who is playing an instrument instead of at a tape machine.

Well, that's not quite true. They wrote and worked out the songs together. Whose to say it was all his melody. They bounced tunes off each other. What your talking about is what she did with Mike Campbell or Sandy Stewart. The tune has to change with lyrics. It's all collaborative. Dave would of gotten different results from another artist.

[jellyman10]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

What your talking about is what she did with Mike Campbell or Sandy Stewart. The tune has to change with lyrics. It's all collaborative. Dave would of gotten different results from another artist.

I agree with this, and I think it's obvious from SN's repeated statements that she expressly has not ever written this way before, i.e. in the same room with a musical partner who is responding to what she's doing, and vice versa. That's definitely a different process from inventing a melody that overlays a pre-existing chord structure.

I'm not sure what I think about Dave Stewart's likely input on this score. I said already that I'm not crazy about the suspended bits in 'Secret Love', and I've noticed that 'Stevie Baby' uses them too -- a lot -- so that might be something that doesn't jive with me over the whole album. Have to wait and see, on that one ...

As for LB's role in SN's songwriting history, I think the evidence is overwhelming that his influence and input varied quite a bit at different times. The really interesting question is how much of what he did was not simply what any producer does? A bit of arrangement, a suggestion about structure, maybe a key change, a little sweetening here and there. None of these things are songwriting, or even co-writing. But they are what a producer does.

Last thought: imagine for a second that we had as many Christine demos as we have Stevie demos, and were able to compare what LB did to what each of them brought in at the start? To me, that would be fascinating!

Loz

[GoldDustOrphan]

I think she is a really good song crafter, very different than anyone else. But not being able to play instruements has hurt her.

The first part, I agree with. The second part isn't true. Stevie plays piano and guitar, just not as well as the people she chooses to work with. I was very happy that she played piano on Storytellers.