9/11 Conspiracy Theory

[dreamongypsydkm]

Along with numerous others' Professor David Griffin's speech and research gives me the chills. To take into account the fires he mentions such a Madrid and see that steel frame structure standing, that doesn't yet go so far as to suggest who is responsible (other sections of his research go into that) but in so far as how the building collapsed regardless of who did it, well it is almost impossible that it was not controlled demolition. To imagine that WTC 7 collapsed because of two fires on seperate floors is seemingly impossible. The other most peculiar aspect is the rate of the fall of all 3 buildings, the structures fell as the same rate as the debri and common physics would tell you that free falling objects fall at greater speed than obstructed objects, which the towers would have been had it not been controlled demolition. They fell at free fall speed and central steel beams disappeared, not only that, it was denied they were even there to begin with. David Griffin explains it far better than I could...it freaks me out because we're fed one theory so predominantly that it becomes tunnel vision but the evidence pointing to other theories is so overwhelming. These aren't crazy ideas and I go back to that statement of Hitler's.

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

The '93 bombings of the WTC happened on Clinton's watch....as did OKC.

at how Bill Clinton told then Oklahoma governor Frank Keating on April 19,1995 "We will get the Muslim terrorists who are responsible" for the Murrah Building Bombing, But then later that day what was said was due "lack of communication"...Kinda odd that memos were sent to 'some' Federal employees just days before April 19,1995 stating that there is "credible info on a possible terrorist attack" coming on April 19 (The memo said something along the lines of "if at possible avoid being at your place of employment the morning of April 19th"), but yet noone ever tipped off those inside the Murrah Building (Though a Federal Judge in OKC kept his memo as proof this did indeed occur, Considering the OKC Federal Court building is across the street from the Murrah Building...Neither the US government nor the State of Oklahoma ever called this judge to testify about this notice, So he went public on the local TV stations.)

Interesting...It was never explained during Terry Nichols vs. the State of Oklahoma trial why so many eye witnesses saw Tim McVeigh in the passenger seat of the Ryder truck in downtown OKC while a person of "olive color skinned" was behind the wheel of the same Ryder truck (The drawing of John Doe #2 is too errie similar to known "Enemy Combatant Jose Padilla", I mean I believe in coincidences and all, But ****!!! Seems really freaky...And when the public first became familiar with Jose Padilla EVERYONE in OKC freaked!!! Oh, for ya conspiracy buffs, Terry Nichols ex-wife Lana's maiden name is Padilla )

I remember clearly hearing the APB call on April 19 over the local TV airways to be on the lookout for several "Muslim looking men" seen leaving a parking lot near the Journal Records Building immediately after the bombing. No clue as to who those persons were has ever been made public (Even though there were 100+ credible witnesses who saw those guys leaving downtown OKC in a Brown Ford F-150 at a high rate of speed...Getting from downtown OKC to either I-40 or I-35 takes only about 3-4 minutes and then you have clear sailing in any direction.)

McVeigh's death sentence took any possible info on others with him...Remember, McVeigh did not fight his death sentence, He took his pending death as that of a "martyr"...Nichols acknowledges his part, but is very "vague" and says there was "no others" who participated besides McVeigh & Michael Fortier. I just cant grasped that McVeigh & Nichols (Fortier had "knowledge only of what Tim & Terry were planning...I didnt believe they were serious at all") alone did orchestrate an act that caused that much damage.

Another interesting conspiracy is that Terry Nichols stayed at the same hotel as 911 hijacker/mastermind Atta in the Phillipines in early 1995 (Supposedly on the same exact day)...The US government said that was an coincidence, But it is a known fact that the Phillipines is a haven for terrorists and could Nichols have been there meeting with those known terror cells to learn their trick of the trade in how to topple a building with a fertlizer bomb? Could Nichols have been plotting with Atta? Who knows...Nichols said he was there "looking for a new mail order bride".

Oh, this isnt a conspiracy, this is indeed an interesting fact...Used to be that every year at the Myriad Convention Center in downtown OKC there would be the largest convention that gathered Muslims from around the US and even outside the US, And this convention would consist of alot of "sabre rattling" and how the Muslims of the world can kill those who oppress them. They would publicly at these conventions talk about how to spread their reig of terror around the world. I remember being sickened when I saw a reporter detail these going ons when he sneaked inside this convention with a hidden camera & a wire and record what was going on...Those inside would have been OBL's wet-dream. I wished I remembered the reporters name, But I do recall seeing part of his expose recently on "Discovery Times Channel" during a broadcast relating to 9-11.

Another odd tidbit, Is that the 20th 911 hi-jacker Moussaoui learned his flying at a local air school in Norman, OK...Recently the local newscasts have showed that his former college roommate (From OU) testified against Moussaoui at his trial in exchange for "total immunity from being prosecuted".

Oh, one more thing...Did you hear about this student from OU, this past late summer/early fall, Who blew himself up across from the football stadium (During the OU/Kansas State game no less...The stadium was sold out with 78,000+ fans) with a homemade bomb? Some thought he was going to head to the game and detonate the device, but instead if misfired...The local officials thought it was a possible suicide, but his students Father said his son wasnt unhappy/depressed since he just converted to being a Muslim (And I know that not all Muslims are terrorists so I'm not judging anyone, So dont start with me ok? )...Weird **** if you ask me.

Ah, conspiracies...Interesting crap!!!

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

The '93 bombings of the WTC happened on Clinton's watch....as did OKC.

Yes, but 9/11 happened under W's watch and those same people so willing to point the finger at Clinton are absent in the finger pointing at W for his failure. I mean what is good for the goose . . . .

[strandinthewind]

Originally Posted by dissention

Precisely. So, having that in mind, why were partially evaporated steel members and molten steel found in the debris of WTC 7? Because it was demolished. Burning diesel can't melt steel. Larry Silverstein, the man who ran that particular complex, even told PBS that it was demolished by both him and the FDNY the afternoon of 9/11. Isn't it odd that WTC 7 fell at freefall speed when the fires in the building were practically minimal and not evenly distributed enough to make it collapse like that? The official story is WTC 1's collapse started the fires in WTC 7, fires which caused WTC 7 to collapse, so how could they have had time, especially amongst all of the chaos, to rig it so perfectly and demolish it in a matter of a few hours? A building cannot be rigged for demolition like that in such a short period of time, it had to have been done beforehand.

But, the planes hit that building And - every credible expert,including the man who designed the building, says the jet fuel conbined with the weakening force of the impact caused the jarred internal supports to melt and fail. I mean I am all for the US through its policies caused 9/11, but to say the WTC had sone sort of nepharious internal conbustion other than the jets is off my radar?

On edit - I would put nothing past the Bush II administration - in fact I despise them.

Also - I adore you

[dreamongypsydkm]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, the planes hit that building And - every credible expert,including the man who designed the building, says the jet fuel conbined with the weakening force of the impact caused the jarred internal supports to melt and fail. I mean I am all for the US through its policies caused 9/11, but to say the WTC had sone sort of nepharious internal conbustion other than the jets is off my radar?

Firstly, it's not far fetched at all. There are numerous points which are peculiar to say the least. The free fall rate of the structure is one. Secondly, planes hit WTC 7? It was claimed to have fallen due to two fires on different levels, 47 storeys of building collapsing.

Seriously, we've been fed one theory from the beginning and anything different seems like a crazy conspiracy, they're not crazy, they're very plausible (actually far more plausible than the original theory, or conspiracy I'd say). Try to watch some of the video I linked to before, there is are some points that should be taken seriuosly, theories that are not crazy, and if people who question what happened are automatically considered lunatics then that reflects more on those who label them.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, the planes hit that building And - every credible expert,including the man who designed the building, says the jet fuel conbined with the weakening force of the impact caused the jarred internal supports to melt and fail. I mean I am all for the US through its policies caused 9/11, but to say the WTC had sone sort of nepharious internal conbustion other than the jets is off my radar?

On edit - I would put nothing past the Bush II administration - in fact I despise them.

I would have to agree with that statement. I don't believe a "conspiracy" in the way the building came down. It's physics and chemistry. The Pentagon "aircrash" is bull****. Never believed that myself. No chance of it happening. You can see from the debris and impact zone it's just not the case. Add to that the only footage of impact, which was dodgy at best, especially the "impact" which was missed by the camera.

I would think it's very possible there is government involvement. You are gonna get issues like this every few decades. It's a business issue. The US defense business is massive. Several high profile companies need an excuse for business, basically war. War is the best business model there is. You can argue one of the benefits of Kennedy's assasination was full scale involvement in Vietnam after Johnson's go ahead and the prosperity of certain companies as a result. If the US economy needs an industrial or job boost then just go out and make a war.

Certainly an attack on America would promote a reaction towards whoever provoked it. Al Qaeda, Afanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, or North Korea. One or more of them. Hell tie them all into the "war on terror" and you get public authorisation to go out and create wars in the name of "Good" or indeed "God". I think it's very likely that there was government involvement.

I personally don't believe Bush knew about it until it happened. The guy is a fool, an idiot and a figurehead. You only need to look at his reaction in that Florida school. He didn't know what to do and was herded out eventually insead of making a decision. It's entirely possible the Secretary Of Defense knew and indeed the Joint Chiefs Of Staff too. But, they needed his authorisation to proceed with a war. This whole conspiracy may have been aimed purely at him in order to sign off a war on "terror"

What this attack did was give the USA unlimited excuses to attack "threats" to its interests. It does seem very convenient doesn't it? America cannot live without oil and if you need something to survive you are gonna do whatever to get it.

The trouble is, and I'm not being anti-American here. America is just no good at fighting wars. They have the best equipment in the world and the biggest war budgets but they can't fight. Probably because in some cases (Iraq and Vietnam) the soldiers have no idea why they are there. If you look at the wars they have been involved in they just can't win. All style and no content. So even with unlimited resources and power they can't beat those adversaries that have a reason to fight. People fighting against American takeover of their countries.

Many countries hate the US and its policies because they can see through the excuses. I'm sure a lot of Americans overseas have been treated less than properly, especially tourists.

Don't blame these people, they don't know any better. America has an empire right now and they are hated as a result. Don't worry though. Like the British, we were hated throughout the world when we had an empire, as were the Romans. When you lose it everybody loves you again. China will find that out too eventually.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, the planes hit that building And - every credible expert,including the man who designed the building, says the jet fuel conbined with the weakening force of the impact caused the jarred internal supports to melt and fail. I mean I am all for the US through its policies caused 9/11, but to say the WTC had sone sort of nepharious internal conbustion other than the jets is off my radar?

On edit - I would put nothing past the Bush II administration - in fact I despise them.

Also - I adore you

I seem to recall a program on this issue (PBS I think) where a demolition expert said the buildings fell precisely as they would if they were rigged with dynamite. if you placed explosives at key stress points (and the experts would know where) and remove the internal bracing, the building would collapse in a spectacular fashion as we have seen. Maybe someone was hired to do the dirty deed and then made to disappear?

I dont know what Bush knew about WTC or when he knew it because lets face it, madformac is right, Monkey Boy is a bumbler. Having said that, however, I can firmly believe he would embrace ANYTHING that would advance his agenda to get his hands on Iraq's oil. So, as I said before, I can very easily believe the neocons concocting this dastardly plot to jumpstart their nefarious agenda...seemingly with public support because now, the dirty bastids DARED to attack Americans on home soil....oh very clever plot indeed....

there is an artricle by David Ray Griffin Why the Official Account cant be True and James E. Jones Why indeed did WTC buildings collapse? you can access by going here

[dissention]

Originally Posted by strandinthewind

But, the planes hit that building

No plane ever hit WTC 7.

Originally Posted by wondergirl9847

The '93 bombings of the WTC happened on Clinton's watch....

The 1993 bombings took place on February 26, 1993. Clinton had been in office for four weeks.

[dissention]

Originally Posted by irishgrl

I seem to recall a program on this issue (PBS I think) where a demolition expert said the buildings fell precisely as they would if they were rigged with dynamite. if you placed explosives at key stress points (and the experts would know where) and remove the internal bracing, the building would collapse in a spectacular fashion as we have seen. Maybe someone was hired to do the dirty deed and then made to disappear?

WTC 7 collapsed perfectly and fell at freefall speed. The uneven fires in the building could not have caused that to happen to a 47-story building like that, let alone a fire-protected steel building; one would have to be an incredible fool to believe that it collapsed due to those fires. Larry Silverstein says it didn't; he says it was demolished. I believe him, but I also believe it was rigged with explosives before 9/11. There's no way they would have had the time to pull off such an incredible controlled demolition in such a short period of time.

[madformac]

Originally Posted by dissention

The 1993 bombings took place on February 26, 1993. Clinton had been in office for four weeks.

Yes thats correct. You have to assume that whoever bombed the WTC in '93 knew one of two things. 1) the explosion in 1993 was not anywhere near enough to bring down the building and was more than likely a politically motivated issue possibly to destabilize the new government and maybe even to push Clinton into a "war on terror" against Al Qaeda, with this not being the case and Clinton resisting the urge for all out war it is concievable the same trick was pulled early in George W Bush's term but making sure the result was much larger, and of course with the increased stupidity of George Jr. Think about the timing of both bombings. Both within 8 months of election and both on the same landmark of American trade and democracy.

or 2) If it really was Al Qaeda then it would have been planned with the feeling Bush Snr was going to get a second term. I don't buy this theory because they would have pulled the attack. I just get a feeling Clinton was not seen as a "war president" or a man more interested in his own ideals than world affairs. W's daddy is a clever man. He's a "made man" within the intelligence community and knew exactly what he was doing. Jnr is an idiot and Daddy and his cronies still run the White House IMHO.

[David]

Originally Posted by dissention

WTC 7 collapsed perfectly and fell at freefall speed. The uneven fires in the building could not have caused that to happen to a 47-story building like that, let alone a fire-protected steel building; one would have to be an incredible fool to believe that it collapsed due to those fires. Larry Silverstein says it didn't; he says it was demolished. I believe him, but I also believe it was rigged with explosives before 9/11. There's no way they would have had the time to pull off such an incredible controlled demolition in such a short period of time.

This is freaky & weird, diss. All those people ... sacrificed, possibly, for the War Lord.

This is like a scenario out of an old Kurosawa movie, in which the Bushido code has been violated.

We would need plenty of engineers & physicists to come to a widely accepted conclusion as to the exact effect gravitational acceleration had on the building collapses.

How wild!! To think that our administration, crooked as they are, would have murdered thousands for political objectives! This is Machiavellian--like Shakespeare's "Richard III." I think this will be Oliver Stone's next movie.

[David]

Originally Posted by dissention

WTC 7 collapsed perfectly and fell at freefall speed.

What is that? Is that 9.8 meters per second squared (9.8/m/s^2)?

Minus friction, right? What is the friction on that material at that elevation & at that velocity, in mathematical terms?

Oh my god ... this will get the whole crew not only impeached but tried for murder!!

[estranged4life]

Originally Posted by madformac

I would have to agree with that statement. I don't believe a "conspiracy" in the way the building came down. It's physics and chemistry. The Pentagon "aircrash" is bull****. Never believed that myself. No chance of it happening. You can see from the debris and impact zone it's just not the case. Add to that the only footage of impact, which was dodgy at best, especially the "impact" which was missed by the camera.

kinda odd that only 1 camera caught the "impact" of the pentagon...Yet on the DVD of "A Call to Reopen the Sept.11 Investigation" there is shown slow motion footage of what appears to be a "con-trail" of a missle trailing behind the impact of where the airlines jet impacted (In the same exact footage taken by that one lone camera.)


Also, Dont anyone other than me, find it odd that only 1 camera showed the Ryder truck approaching the Murrah Building. That "lone" camera was located down the block inside the Regency Towers highrise apartment building and that camera showed the truck from an angle where you cannot tell who was behind the wheel...Yet during the trial for both McVeigh (Federal) & Nichols (State) their defense both called on the US government to provide video closed circuit footage that showed the Ryder truck exploding, And the US government denied any such footage existed...BUT, the GSA who ran/controlled the Murrah building said they had about 18 cameras which showed all activity in/around the building and several did catch the actual bombing, But yet that footage "mysteriously" dissappearred.

I wonder why it dissappearred? Could it be because a former US Air Force expert in weapon ordinances, Said the "seismic" record of that actual event showed that something larger caused the destruction of the Murrah building.

The seismic record showed 2 large blips that occurred possibly near milli-seconds apart...Indicating that something first exploded, then another explosion occurred immediately afterwards. Even the survivors inside the building stated that they heard/felt a small rumble from the front of the building, which caught their attention then a bigger explosion occurred.

The former US Air Force expert believes some type of missle/"warhead" was fired across the street at the Journal Records Building parking lot (Where the "Survivor Tree" is located) that hit the Ryder truck causing the bigger explosion. The damage to the Journal Records parking lot was absolute, 1 person died there from the damage of the blast.

There was plenty of rescuers who saw men in protective "white suits" walking around the wreckage with "Geiger counters"...Even a decorated OKC police officer saw these men and asked what they were doing, they replied "We work for the FBI, this is none of your concern." This officer even reported this occurrence to his commanding officers who also could not get an answer from the FBI on this event.

Sadly, about a year later this same police officer ended his life with a "self-inflicted wound" in a empty field in a town 20 miles away (Weird that this officer constantly was asking the government about what he saw and the government never gave a clue...And why would a man who was supposed to be on his way home to "spend the day playing video games with his son" suddenly feel the need to end his life?)

Oh, one more morbid tidbit...After the Murrah building remains were imploded, there was a leg recovered in the wreckage (Found inside a camouflaged military style pant leg...It was separated at the hip from whoevers body it belonged to) that has never been traced back to its owner (The OKC M.E. tried tracking the leg to all the dead and injured, and noone had a missing limb that matched the leg that was discovered.).

[gldstwmn]

Originally Posted by estranged4life

Oh, one more morbid tidbit...After the Murrah building remains were imploded, there was a leg recovered in the wreckage (Found inside a camouflaged military style pant leg...It was separated at the hip from whoevers body it belonged to) that has never been traced back to its owner (The OKC M.E. tried tracking the leg to all the dead and injured, and noone had a missing limb that matched the leg that was discovered.).

This and the missing video tape (possibly) showing the driver has always bothered me about the OKC bomibing.

[irishgrl]

Originally Posted by David

This is freaky & weird, diss. All those people ... sacrificed, possibly, for the War Lord.

How wild!! To think that our administration, crooked as they are, would have murdered thousands for political objectives! This is Machiavellian--like Shakespeare's "Richard III."

exactamundo. the Neocons dont CARE about sheep lives.